Thread to discuss Graviteam Tactics and Combat Mission games.Screenshots and AAR's welcome.
i think both are good :)
>>2325576I think both are bad ):
I think both are average :|
I have no particular opinion on any of them.
As a seasoned GT player who played everything they made, including all DLC, I'm thinking about writing, recording and editing a comprehensive video tutorial series for Graviteam. Nobody else seems to have attempted this, just a few often incorrect tutorial videos exist focused on specifics like artillery, and some.List the areas that new players struggle with most. Also, how best to structure such a series?
>>2325576Wanted to get into these graviteam games then I saw that unit deployment shit with the squares on the ground and noped out
>>2328678-not sure how to load my infantry into transport vehicles.-struggling to understand how the radio/communication mechanics work.-It's difficult to figure out when it's best to use orders and which in def and assault.-Artillery seems to work, but im no clue to actually understand the mechanics.-how to win an engagement with flamethrower units?
>>2328678>do all that>andre changes the entire game again
Reminder that the CM team is nothing but late-war fags who REFUSE to give us the Battle of France for some reason
>>2328678>just a few often incorrect tutorial videosMost of them are incorrect because there's been a few engine overhauls that have changed things a lot. I've seen the same for Combat Mission too. >>2329495Graviteam is early war, but they're slavoids on a mission to document every single minor engagement that happened on the eastern front.
>>2328678I'm good with most of it now, but I remember having some issues with artillery, spotting generally, and communications generally. There were a lot of times that I thought on map fire support should have been firing, but they weren't.
>>2328678I learned a lot from messing about in the battle editor. You could show how to set up simple scenarios for various aspects of the game to play around with.
Anyone here played Firefight?it's a little known banger WW2 based real time tactical game made by a lone dev. 2D top down like Close Combat, with fairly simple mechanics and surprising tactical depth. Still being improved with an active modding community. I recommend it to anyone who enjoys these games.Here's a great tutorial for infantry tactics that gives an idea of how it works.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvG-U8VY-KY
>>2329495I think it's just easier to work with.As fun it would be I don't know how the game would be like in a desert environment, considering the master maps would probably be what half the maps in large scenarios would look likeMaybe in CM3
>>2333219I think it's just easier for them to copy+paste PzIVs and Shermans for 80% of the vehicle roster.>I don't know how the game would be like in a desert environmentIt apparently worked fine before on the old engine
>>2328678Give me your expert opinion on the AI, I always felt that Graviteama) plays itself when it works and you have very little impactb) the enemy either does nothing or just walks or drives towards you
I look at some of these in-depth World War simulation games and I think that they could be really fun but then I consider how long it would take to actually learn the game and make use of most of the features.
>>2334435They certainly demand considerable investment on the part of the player. However, they can reward that investment proportionately.
SF2 just got a battle pack. Guess they had some spare scenarios to throw around before we move off CMx2 for good. Mostly COIN-focused, and apparently one of the scenarios is about two gangs of Uncons chimping out over who gets the food pallet.
>>2334435As a recent beginner, I picked up Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin (2002) for pennies just last week, and despite the lack of an in-game tutorial, it's surprisingly simple to work. The hard part is gitting gud and applying tactics, plans, and reacting to unforeseen consequences. Here's a QRD for B2B from one beginner to another:>move and turn the camera with kp 8,4,5,6 and 7,9 as you would wasd and qe. The mouse at the screen edges works too.>read the scenario briefings! The Manual also contains very useful information,>to give an order select a section, hit space, select the order you want to give, then click to set a waypoint, or right click to chain multiple waypoints>in the setup phase this will immediately transport the unit to where you click within the Green Zone>you will have to give individual orders to each section>you can drag existing waypoints using right click>you can pause units for co-ordination purposes (ie, allowing a section to begin supressing the enemy for a moment before another begins to move across its line of fire)>Platoon HQs issue your orders to its sections, keep them within range (connected via a maroon line when selected) to prevent long waits before a section begins to perform orders>you can issue target arcs to prevent units from firing at targets the moment they're spotted or at extreme range>units like mortars and HMG teams take time to set up before firingThen the rest is being aware of basic combat principles:>terrain, cover & concealment>observe, decide, act>fire and manoeuvre>unit skill, morale, endurance and self-preservationI suggest watching some combat mission videos where the player explains the decisions they made and why to get ideas you can apply to your own game, such as this:https://youtu.be/HyiubalpzJ0I also suggest, if you start with Barbarossa to Berlin like I have, to start with small scenarios, like Rude Awakening which was my debut battle as the Axis.
>>2329495Most boomer WW2 enthusiasts from the US/UK are interested mainly in post-Normandy western front, and as another anon mentioned keeping it all to a similar period lets them use the same vehicles/OoBs/uniform models between a lot of the games which probably saves a ton of dev costs
>>2334907It's a real shame we don't get more North Africa kino>has both of the major English speaking nations>has Germans and Italians for a little Axis diversity (that no one cares about anyway)>major personalities on both sides>alien landscape>not bocageI don't really understand why they don't care. For the British boomers you have the whole 'us and the commonwealth nations alone against the axis' angle for a bit and for the American boomers you have the initial fuckups leading up to Patton's takeover and a reversal of fortunes.
>>2334907Thinking about it, it probably is dev cost related. I do remember Fortress Italy only existing because someone just appeared and offered them $500k+ to make it, probably provided the impetus for the other games coming out at the time.
>>2336083>makes Fortress Italy>sets it in Sicily where 2nd rate reserves were stationed and didn't have most of the actually half-decent Italian equipment that existed>other half of the game is post-Italian surrender vs Germany
Does anyone have a download link for CM professional edition? Apparently there was a cracked version on Baidu which then got reuploaded to Mega.
>>2337166Check the archives, should be in the last thread or the previous one.
>>2333511The orders system is very powerful, with modifiers that can generate thousands of behavioural variations. It is possible to set up a complex attack plan before the battle starts that will require no further intervention by the player. Of course there are usually unexpected happenings that will require some tactical adjustment. Defensively this is even more the case, good defensive deployment should enable the player in most cases to sit back and watch the enemy try to find a way through. Again, the AI can surprise you, with flanking moves, surprise strength, devastating artillery barrages or air raids etc that will require you to adjust and redeploy in order to strengthen certain areas.Not always the case. The AI will probe and test defensive lines, it will avoid minefields and strong defensive positions when it's aware of them. Of course once an attack is underway and forces are committed then wholesale altering of the plan mid battle is often more risky than pushing on. Although the AI will fall back, regroup and try something else if the situation and time remaining allows. One reason why 3 hour battles are the patricians choice, it really gives the AI time to work. As mentioned above the AI will attempt flanking moves which can include sending units 'off map', or outside the tactical deployment area, in order to exploit cover, roads and other obvious terrain advantages. Personally I love this, as it makes sense that armour would take that road around as opposed to going across muddy field or infantry using a gully to move through. It forces the player to react and keeps things interesting, although it does pose questions such as 'what about the forces occupying that area on the operational map?', I don't worry about this too much. Player forces also have access to areas outside the designated deployment zones if modifiers such as 'use roads' or 'move covertly' are enabled.TL;DR Play 3 hour battles and keep a reserve force handy.
>>2333511>>2340720To further elaborate...Simulation vs RTS: How much does a Battalion commander actually do once the reconnaissance has been done, intel analyzed, conditions assessed, forces appraised, tactical plans finalized, officers briefed, orders given and the battle begins? The answer? It depends upon how well the above tasks have been executed. In ideal circumstances he will simply wait and watch as events unfold to his satisfaction. In a less than ideal situation he may be desperately putting out fires while trying to salvage something from the unfolding disaster.As in the real world Graviteam games are mainly played in the hours before the fighting starts. So yes, sometimes there is very little for you to do during the battle. What the player does during the deployment and initial orders phase will largely decide the results of the battle. Just as field commanders have very little ability to influence individual events, the player and the AI have limited influence once the ball is roiling.As to the AI. It has clearly defined objectives dictated by historic events, finite resources and a strict time limit with which to achieve them. If it's the last turn of a campaign and the AI requires this key point in order to achieve its objectives and you gave it an hour in which to do that, then of course you're going to see a rapid and direct assault that will be much easier to prepare for.It's not an RTS, it's a battlefield command simulator.
Boт дepьмo
>>2340830I generally don't give crazy complex orders in the beginning and I'm doing shit the entire battle. I'm not too sure what they're looking for. Combat mission is pretty much the same but I don't see this criticism as much.
I wish these games had bigger maps, its not that bad in most graviteam maps but in CM unless you play with the lowest point preset it feels so crowded
>>2342845Graviteam maps never feel crowded though. Even during particularly densely populated battles, 5-6 company's per side, the field is 9 square km plus ability to maneuver outside the boundaries, and normally the unit count is way below that. Even in the corners of the operational map where you're sometimes fighting on a 3x2 grid the space is limited to 6 sq km, but so is the number of units involved.Ultimately the entire operational area is hundreds of square km, recreated from the real world at 1:1 scale. Not sure how it can be done more realistically, except to run the entire operation in real time. But that would result in the same historical unit to territory ratio.I agree CM and others in the genre can feel very cramped tactically.
>>2325576https://community.battlefront.com/topic/145291-20252026-combat-mission-report/New yearly CM report>TL;DR not much to talk about>CMx3 development continuing, still no dates or more detailed info>CMx2 development winding down but "no hard decision against further Battle Packs">support will continue for CMx2 games for the forseeable future
>>2343514All I want from CM3 is>better performance>full match replays>proper handling of HE
>>2336181>recently start playing FI for the first time>play an Italian battle>designer's notes: Italians don't have radios
>>2344541I'm guessing gtos is graviteam operation star? Do the newer ones have medics?
>>2344016The experience is more miserable then I originally thought.>no radios except for the occasional vehicle>single unit in my company can call artillery and it takes 11 minutes>can't split basic infantry unit>full infantry squad, despite being in contact with 2 levels of their superiors, broke after a single injuryThis is allegedly an elite Italian unit, too.
>>2347207One of the battle briefings said that I should be able to have units nearby spot for light mortars. Is that actually possible in Combat Mission? They don't seem to do anything unless they're directly firing or I'm playing a nation that isn't shit and has radios.
Fewgoodmen is down. Anywhere else I can get Scenarios/Campaigns?
Mius-Front was 10 years old yesterday.
>>2356871>hans flipped the AT gun againEndsieg has slipped through our grasp....
>>2349483Usual maximum range for those kinds of miscellaneous interactions is 2 tiles. Could be that you were too far, could be some other jank, could be that he meant it as "put a squad next to them so they can see things and tell the mortar team about them".
Alright lads, we need to get our hands on that CP
>>2359753>Operation Epstein Fury
I'm pretty shit at Combat Mission. I understand the engine mechanics and incredibly basic shit taught in the tutorials, but I'd like to know more about the doctrines in use during the different time periods. Is there any good reading material on this, specifically in the context of using it in-game?
With their Sherman disabled, the surviving crew takes the fight to the Germans at close range
Starting Chervonnoe for the third time. I'll actually finish it this time. It's just so fucking boring compared to every other operation. >just walk forward bro>and saturate any positions with artyAt least give me some scout cars or something.
>>2366395TBDesu, just go straight to the doctrine books for the most comprehensive experience. But your real problem is probably just terrain analysis and/or insufficient manual targeting. The basic squad or platoon attack is easy to understand in principle, but the hard part is adapting it to the terrain in the most effective way. There's also just a lot of little quirks with orders that aren't documented well and can make a big difference in the survivibility of an attack.https://www.youtube.com/@AR-GuidesAndMore
luv me stuGssimple as
>>2372006Based
>>2372006Stuglords....>https://archive.org/details/sturmgeschutzina0000bruc
GRAVITEAM IS SUCH A BAD FUCKING NAMEI THOUGHT THIS WAS SOME GAYLO WARS SCI FI FANTASY FAGGOTRY FOR OVER A DECADE
>>2374873In yookraine, it is good name. Very literary.
>>2374922bad name
>>2374922>>2374926It's a terrible name. Branding matters sadly, and there's no doubt the name has played a part in the games failure to break out beyond being a niche title with a small passionate following.
>>2376217it's an autistic war simulator with a terrible ui, it was never going to break out beyond a niche autist crowd
>>2376518Yeah, it's also eastern front, which is unappealing to a lot of the boomers who would try this. Dev doesn't seem to give a fuck though. Instead of chasing that sweet western front money they're going all in and showing the easterner front (Soviets against Japanese)
>>2376638Quite apart from personal preference, it's not a bad business idea. There's a thousand Normandy Breakout games. I genuinely can't think of anything on the tactical level for the likes of Khalkin Gol without un-fossilising Steel Panthers. It may be a small niche but you'll own it.
Tank battles in GT are peak
Does anyone have any advice on getting Combat Mission Red Thunder to run on Mac? I tried running it with Whisky and Porting Kit, but it wouldn't even launch. Installing extra dlls didn't help. I was able to run it with only minor graphical issues in the free trial of Parallels desktop, but my trial expired and then when I created a new trial account and tried to reinstall it, I couldn't get it to launch for some reason.
>>2376217It was never going to break out. It's not an RTS. People who are not interested in either the time period or realistic warfare generally are not going to want to play a game where you need to lay phone wires.
>defending as Italy>opponent is US>terrain is a bunch of rolling hills>objectives are a pair of small villas and an elevated town>budget is 3k pointsWhat the fuck do I do? Current forcecomp consists of two companies of combat engineers (higher percentage of SMGs), each of which has a pair of HMGs attached a platoon of the 90mm SPGs, with a pair of AT guns and mortars nestled in behind reverse slopes. Ive scattered TRPs across the map in the open, and my AT plan wants to use the SPGs to pop up and fire on the inevitable Sherman horde as they cross the TRPs.
Name the operation
>>2326493>>2326485>>2326500Trashbags
Got CMFI and popped my Italian cherry with a nighttime attack against US Forces commanded by a longtime human opponent. The map is agricultural terrain (orchards and wheat fields) dominated by a dried up river cutting through it with a town on the other side that my opponent must defend. I've taken a battalion of Italian riflemen who are ahistorically very well-trained and highly motivated, otherwise the attack would be impossible to persecute. We decided on a night battle to make it interesting and to give me a chance, since the Italians would be annihilated by long-range fires in daytime.At close range, they don't fare much better in the dark. You can't split Italian squads so one bullet has a reasonable chance of killing two guys when they're all bunched up. Carcanos are no match against M1 Garands and BAR's unless massed, so you end up rushing a whole bunch of guys into narrow frontages almost banzai-style. Still, if you just get enough boys together, you're able to win a firefight or two. I have taken notable casualties but the entire battalion is still capable of accomplishing its mission.It's mostly been skirmishing on the flanks so far. The original plan was to reconnoiter and assemble into ready positions for the next 15 minutes and then pre-planned arty would hit the town, at which point all of 1st Company would rush through the middle of the map and defeat the decadent Yankees in close quarters combat, using the night to avoid premature firing. Unfortunately, in my retardation, I forgot to give everyone the order to hold fire, so once one muzzle flash appeared, hundreds followed across the line on both sides of it, ruining the plan. However, this was a blessing, since from the effective fire I figured out that even a battery of 105mm guns was not enough to suppress every important window in 150m x 150m urban area garrisoned by a determined enemy. Many Italians died.
>>2325576How is Operation Star? Is that a good one to start off with in the series?
I haven't played CM in a while, so I was reminded that infantry alone have a very hard time attacking anything since human flesh is very soft. I should have taken a tankette or two since that would wipe the smug faces off of American .30 cal crews from 300 meters away before they could reverse to avoid the wrath of the Stuarts. Still, you gotta play the hand you were dealt, so after fertilizing the central wheat fields with the blood and bones of no less than twenty proud Roman Legionaries, I have the order to retreat and regroup.Contact across the whole line determined that the enemy defense is very still and mutually supportive towards the left and center, but that he seems to not have the manpower to completely cover the right side. While battered 1st Company retreated and performed aid for their wounded, and the artillery fire continued to pound the town without any maneuver to complement it, elements of 3rd Company managed to carefully infiltrate the right flank of the entire enemy force. Now a new plan is hatched: >Upon the commencement of artillery fire,>1st Company will occupy positions originally held by 3rd Company and attack the houses near the east bridge >2nd Company will attempt to force their way across the river to the left >3rd Company will send one platoon to the north of Monte Ribera so they can shoot Yanks resisting 2nd Company from the rear, while the main body of the company will attack the town at the same time>Thus committing the entire battalion into the attack.This is only possible because the apparent natural sighting distance at night is around 50 meters, and pixeltruppen can accurately shoot at muzzle flashes in the dark at around 250 meters. My opponent is also inexperienced in night fighting like me. In any case, I have around maybe 1 - 2 companies worth of American infantry and 1 - 2 stuarts to overcome.35 minutes and 70 turns have elapsed so far, and I have another 55 minutes to accomplish my objectives.
>>2385361>How is Operation Star? Is that a good one to start off with in the series?Yes. Although there are a few caveats.>It's an older game with many significant differences in terms of mechanics, and game controls.>It's not as well optimized as the newer games.>The operations are on a much smaller scale.Op Star will give new players a decent taste of what to expect from Mius and Tunisia, the small scale and relatively simple controls etc are much easier to get to grips with.
>>2330961>they're slavoids on a mission to document every single minor engagement that happened on the eastern front.desu can't help but respect their dedication and focus
>>2325576thoughts on fortress italy compared to other CM titles? I've only played the "hypothetical" ukraine war one I can't remember the name of right now, and the setting of italy looks cool
>>2385369This went down as planned and the Americans were surprised but we were annihilated by short-range fires from Garands and BAR's. 1st and 3rd companies were mauled to combat ineffectiveness at the outskirts of the town, although they did take out a Stuart and its crew. 2nd Company was delayed too long by the American outpost line and could not cross the river in time despite elements of 3rd Company rounding the mountain and getting shots on Americans from behind. My opponent still had fresh reserves and deployed them in a 360 defense.Force composition determines the flow of battle more often than not, and upon reviewing the map and remaining forces, there was no reasonable way for me to have actually won this battle. I took an all-infantry force supported by 2 4 inch artillery batteries because I thought it would be funny and speculated that nighttime would grant me enough stealth and surprise from the smallest level to affect some kind of victory. Turns out surprise is not enough if you need 3 dudes with underpowered bolt-action rifles to overpower a single American with a Garand - and that American is never alone. I must imagine the Japanese had a similar experience on the other side of the world. Italian platoons with their binary squad system also force you to concentrate too many bodies in too-small areas. Elan and tactical finesse are nice, but in an industrialized war, your equipment and organization matter the most.I should have taken an autocannon on wheels or something, or even some of the lighter anti-tank guns. I am too used to other nations' small arms that actually function. You can make a decent case that a single M1917 machine gun has more effective firepower than an entire Italian rifle company put together. Seriously. It's obscene.Italy was not a serious nation and Mussolini was evil for sending his countrymen to war with such substandard and obsolete equipment.
>>2386400The final disposition of forces.>>2386267The Italians are a joke. It's Germany all the way down.
>think about the Ratel randomly and get a massive Ratelboner (a common situation for all of us I'm sure)>replay Modular>Think I did really really well>23% casualties on our side and only 55% of the enemy killed, all but one key point ocupied>Major DefeatI'm about to fucking lose it I lost one too many Cass in the last battle FUCK
>>2386992With the assistance of the mighty Ratel you should have taken no losses.
>>2388635I was stuck with only one Ratel in this battle... the Casses failed meeven the BUFFEL seems to be sturdier than the Cass
>>2386992>ModularI haven't played any of the modern scenarios. Are man carried AT weapons that aren't mines or grenades represented at all? The latest WW2 ops are before the panzerfaust's introduction right? I've been wondering if there's some reason for that or if the dev just really likes the early war.
>>2386401>The Italians are a joke. It's Germany all the way down.>that one pre-made axis assault battle where the briefing says that the Italians are shit and that you should probably sit and wait for the Germans to show up
>>2389693Yes, all sorts of RPGs and even ATGMs in some of the Iran-Iraq war Operation Victory campaignsthey are generally very powerfulAs for the Panzerfaust/Panzershrek, its mostly that the lead dev wants to do more early war stuff because he finds it more interesting. Also, he to have a particular aversion to simulating them for autistic historical reasons, he's read a lot of red army reports where they make up fractions of a percentage of knocked out tanks so he's against wasting too much time on implementing it, even though the Soviet infantryman gets a billion KS bottles to throwbut its more that he prefers obscure early war stuff with a heavy emphasis on the tanks of things
>>2389798>its mostly that the lead dev wants to do more early war stuff because he finds it more interestingYeah, it's also far rarer in games. Actually, I can't really think of any other early war tactical games. There's larger operational type games, but even the combat mission eastern front games are late war, right?
>>2386071Are there any missions in Operation Star that weren't ported to mius front?I am collecting the dlc of mius front and Tunisia and wanted to know if Star is even worth picking up since a lot was ported to Mius Front.
>>2386400>>2386401Mussolini told Hitler he wasn't ready for the war until at least 1941.Hitler told him he would wait but then screwed up by assuming he would get danzig like the sudentenland.If Hitler waited, Mussolini could have re armed and innovated his army that was weakened by the surprisingly rough war with Ethiopia (shoulda seen it coming though, Somalia took gas bombing by britain to beat).So not his fault really.
Brave soldaten marching for a future with trans rights
>>2390217Pics that go hard
So what else is there besides Graviteam and Combat Mission?
>>2390347Pics that go hard>>2392038Close Combat and Armored Brigade maybe
Anyone tried BILLNYE's fictional faction mods? Just some new textures but nice to see a bit of variety. If only we could edit maps and design operations.
>>2392038Not much. There's a lot of tactics games out there but they're usually much closer to the RTS style of game or the computerized advanced squad leader style of game
>>2325576how do i make my soldiers act less like total retards in GT?In pic related the Panzer 3 seemingly charged the t 34, then it looked like it would kill it with a flanking shot.... but instead it just drove past it
>>2325576Coming from hard hours in cta: ostfront. This game looks amazing. I struggle a bit to get the hang of the spotter-arty gameplay but overall this game is great. Love to follow the units closeup
>>2392746You're at the mercy of RNG really
>>2392042That was pretty brutal
>>2394015Pics that go hard
Are there any particular kinds of unit that you really enjoy using?
>>2394871Late war German grenadiers. The StG44 is pretty nasty.
>>2390118>If Hitler waited, Mussolini could have re armed and innovated his armyFat chance of that, Italian industry wasn't in a position to supply such a rapid modernization and any delay gives the Allies equal time to modernize
>>2394871British Paras are brutally effective in close quarters. Each paratrooper section has half of them carry Sten SMGs, a Bren gun or two, a PIAT, a light mortar with smoke shells, and usually at least one scoped Enfield. On top of that they come with a couple breaching charges and can be split in a bunch of different way. On the offensive obviously the automatic fire suppression and mortar gives them the ability to practically conduct an attack single-handedly, laying down smoke while hosing down the enemy with 9001 rounds per minute as the assault team closes the distance, all with AT capability. The breaching charges are an incredible tool if you know how to use them, and opening up back doors to buildings, blowing out the interior walls to permit movement through larger blocks, and knocking down walls facing your own lines means your infantry has unparalleled ability to shape the battlefield to your whims.>>2395839At least in Normandy, I find the Sturmgrens suffer from little ability to replenish ammo (which paras have no issue with since 9mm is super common). Most halftracks don't carry any, it's only in bunkers and certain supply trucks I think
>>2400821I don't know, while they probably couldn't fully scale the Italians did manage to produce a good navy.They could have at least made the infantry good and get help on producing tanks by German scientists.The brits, French, and Americans didn't want war so I doubt they would have become too strong.The issue is the Soviets did want to scale and possibly would have attacked the Germans in a late war scenario.They are the main problem that would make and gains from Italy negated by making the western allies have enough time to recoup.Also Japan would still call the USA only this time it's at war start so that is also bad.
I played the 1941 Stepanovka campaign as the Germans and I watched WarSimmer's video on field artillery. I couldn't get my company commanders to spot for my mortar teams though, because there wasn't any link between the units. Then I noticed my mortar teams only have the one (1) commander unit. Is it the case that with units that are 'sole batteries' only staffed by a platoon commander and no one else above them in the platoon, that these units won't link with the company commander to relay enemy positions to the mortar teams?Yes, I did make sure the company commander had a telephone unit, before you ask.
Night fights in GT are brutal
