Fresh Menace Thread - Heavy armor editionHow is your diverse crew of women, people of colour and crayon eating marines doing?They are doing their best of course. Is your PC overheating and take part in climate change sponsored by German government? As it should, new ice age is coming, you need to do your part. Are you smart enough to notice that AI is flawless in this German master piece? No it don't need any fixes, its already perfect.Never mind. Lets talk about armor and why its waste of supply points.
This game is going to suffer the same fate as Terra Invicta: Promising game being fucked to death by toxic optimism and parasocial dicksucking of a dev concerned only with making their game super speshul by making it annoyingly difficult. Calling it now, it’s only going to get worse.
>>2349341Maybe. I'll know for sure if they ignore all the comments on AI behaviour or if they actually make obvious changes so the AI isn't so gamey and omniscient.Anecdotally, in my current mission I'm seeing the AI moving towards my concealed troops and also flanked around on the rough area of my units when I start shooting, instead of just fleeing out of my line of sight. It feels a lot more authentic and what a human player might start doing if his units takes mystery shots from a given direction. Maybe I would also move a damaged unit back, but pushing forward and being aggressive against concealed units is the correct move, so long as they're doing it after being engaged and not beforehand as if they magically know the unit is there.It really does feel like they are updating and changing the AI every few days even though they aren't announcing any updates, and if that's not what's happening then I guess having the AI behave properly is really hit and miss and inconsistent for some reason.
>>2349341>Promising game being fucked to death by toxic optimism and parasocial dicksuckingI wouldn't be so sure, the community is pretty critical of the game's shortcomings and dogpiles the dicksuckers pretty well.It's not common to see a subreddit criticize a game.
>>2349341Well, it's pretty easy right now, even on the hardest difficulty setting.
>a month after release>AI still barebones, cheating dogshitIt's dead, Jim.
>>2349341>annoyingly difficultSo far its just mostly annoying
>>2349352They tried to make the AI cheater difficulty but in the process of making it cheat they unintentionally made it even easier to beat - you just have to herd the AI into bunched up groups or singled out and isolated for effortless kills.All they actually did was make beating the AI tedious. What they thought they were doing was making the AI difficult and probably assumed anyone complaining was just a noob who thought the game was too difficult.And that's a problem of their own making because many people (including me) were pointing out these AI problems in the demo and were completely ignored. Congrats, you launched the game with broken AI because you refused to actually listen to your players and thought you knew better than them.
>>2349370most things pointed in the demo was ignored
There was an old post in the last thread about me giving Carda a tripod AC and using her as a mobile turret. It's been a while since then and I finally got to see how the mission type with a defense zone at the bottom of the map is like, and the way the AI avoids the reach of your weapons is one of the most powerful things on this type. I do not see a downside of forcing enemies to waste their time walking all the way around the AC's great range, eating into their turn order and often times never being able to pathfind to the exit zone anyway. If I want their drops I can always hunt them down after the turn limit is over.Also, is there any particular reason I shouldn't buy a second laser turret? A single one already feels like cheating. A completely free scouting tool that if placed correctly will immediately shove two auto laser salvoes onto the nearest enemy, that also absorbs some attacks and screws with the enemy turn order. Meanwhile the strafing run tickles some enemies if they are kind enough to stand in the single tile thin line. Third slot is supply drop at the moment though I rarely use it.
>>2349381try 1 turret and 2 mines3 turret would also be viableas would 3 minesi think 2 turret and 1 mines wouldnt be worth it though since a single mines is not so great
>>2349341Terra Invicta was fun and I beat it twice
Why make a new thread? There are four others still up. It's a slow as fuck board.
>>2349386>3 threads about hoi4 mods with 1200 posts summary is good>4 threads about menace with 6000 posts summary is badGtfo retard.
>>2349370>They tried to make the AI cheater difficulty but in the process of making it cheat they unintentionally made it even easier to beat - you just have to herd the AI into bunched up groups or singled out and isolated for effortless kills.I have 70 hourse in the game and I see this repeated here and I've never been able to do this, can you replicate it?
>equipping 2 radars on medium mech doubles ground radar range, making it cover the entire mapkek
>>2349341Can you please fuck off
>>2349394>doubles ground radar rangeReally? How they mess that bad with double slots.
>>2349347Or that was always the case and you niggers were just blowing a few isolated instances out of proportion>but muh stealth updatesSchizo bullshit to hide that you were the real schizos all along
>>2349394Bog who can't hit the broad side of a barn is the perfect man to repeatedly push a button.
>>2349399My bog was a ATV with two VMAT missiles and a radar system and smoke launchers. He had lucky shot as well as overload, the idea being that 90 percent of the time he's a radar buggy. but the 10% of the time he's got the most powerful oneshot anti tank shot that can take out rogue army heavy tanks from the front. I think he could get to the point where he could overload then nuke one target and either pop smoke or scan both of which would last while he was stunned anyways. Great unit for less than 200 supply.
Jesus grenades just suckFrag, AT, grenade launchers, mortars.They're all complete trash
lads this board is slow as fuck, we dont need that many threads
>>2349405Grenades/Mortars are items for enemies to fuck you over with via infinite ammo. They are not for you to use.
>>2349393>>2349398stfu shitposting troll>>2349405Frags are 'good' in their use-case, but it just basically never comes up. The only time I ever equip it is on the breakthrough missions on kody and run him up next to one of the bunkers to toss a grenade in. He gets bonus damage on full hp enemies so the grenades almost always wipe the squad in one go, and it ignores bunker cover. Much easier than using a bunch of AT weapons to blast the bunkers down.Grenade launchers are also extremely good, overpowered even. Think of them like a squad LMG except it ignores cover. You don't necessarily need to kill with them, the suppression is what you really need, but I find they always outkill LMG's anyway and basically just make the LMG obsolete. With that said the airburst GL sucks compared to the non airburst one; slightly worse suppression/damage in practice, but also 10% malfunction chance on top, so its just unreliable and unreliable = very bad.Mortars are best used for smoke. They're not for fragging stuff unless there's the odd opportunity but mostly you use mortar as on-demand smoke application for your entire force, which saves you having to equip smoke grenades on everyone, freeing up a lot of accessory space across your roster.
>breakthroughI'm playing on normal for a first playthrough but I've never ever seen a breakthrough map function normally. There will be exactly one road with one entrance through the wall, and there will be also exactly one guard there standing around. I will be 2/3rds of the way to the extract before the other troops find their way to me literally walking in the front door unopposed.
>>2349409>spent a week arguing a point>concedes the pointlol, yeah no it's all those stealth updates that happen that don't require downloading
>>2349409>airburst GL sucks compared to the non airburst oneActually it's vice versa. Give it to Carda with MI, and she can pin down 3x3 tiles per round, with decent damage on top. Also it even can ohk small weapon teams if lucky.
>>2349410Too many people complained during the demo
>>2349410All missions where ai actually tried to win map was nerfed, since current design is just shooting range. While ai due to conditions of mission start to actually fight back, players can't handle this bullshit amount of deployed points and start cry.
>>2349411Timed updates which are packaged ahead of time and are triggered to become active after reaching a particular date.
>>2349409>Grenade launchers are also extremely good, overpowered even.This is only true for the granade machine gun that slings out 3 granades per shot at 10 tile range. And it's not a real granade launcher because it's unaffected by granade skills.Every other actual non-smoke granade, is a feast of famine type of deal with range and accuracy that does not ever excuse taking the risk of wasting a turn. And all of those get completely walled by armor which is something that's not an issue for LMGs, even the shittier ones like the tripod version of the starting battle taxi machinegun. As other guy mentioned, they are there for enemies to have something occasionally threatening to use against you. As they are now, they are only usable on Greifinger and you never want to use granade launchers on Greifinger because of the opportunity cost of not running a guaranteed hit RPG.
>>2349420>And it's not a real granade launcher because it's unaffected by granade skillsWhy would a grenade launcher be affected by grenade skills? They're completely different weapon types.
>>2349341It's not going to happen because unlike Terra Invicta, Overhype is an actual game studio and not a puffed up blowjob gang for Johnny Lump and his retarded decisions for Long War
>>2349406^This. A new thread after hitting image limit or page 11 is reasonable but otherwise it isn't necessary.
>>2349339There was no reason to make a new thread, retard. /vsg/ is one of the slowest boards. It took the previous one a full WEEK just to hit page six. With how yappy anons are about the game, half the fucking catalogue is going to be full of half-eaten Menace bread
>>2349430Further, together!
>>2349417>it's all a big conspiracyJesus, just admit you guys were overexaggerating the problem lol
>/MenGen/
>>2349405Frags are shit because they have short range and can miss. Might as well save the item slot and just shoot at enemies through cover that will still add some suppression.Mortars aren't that bad but they don't fit the player's playstyle of moving arond the map. They need to be stationary while their allies scout for vision so mostly an AI strategy. Heavy mortars are very fun even though they are outclassed by more accurate weapons.
>>2349445Frags seem like they were designed with and entirely different cover system in mind. If heavy cover was virtually impenetrable, or there was way more LoS stops then grenades would be critical as fuck for certain missions, but theres virtually never a time where you're>in range>but out of LoS>with nothing else to shoot at>and nowhere to move toThat grenades would be useful in
How many hours in before I should start worrying about the meta? I've got Lim, Pike, Bog, Carda, Kody, Exconde, Sy and so far I haven't needed to hire more
>>2349458the meta really kicks in when you are stomping everything anyway.I would suggest getting darby though shes overpoweredalso a third vehicle driver since dual vehicle (2 medium mech with autocanon, or one and a mechanized infantry in an apc) is good and sometimes they get op. Its easier to field when you get a couple ai logistics running.darby and kody are interchangeable but darby is strongerKeep an eye out for laser rifles. Their short range kind of sucks but they are effective against everything so its nice. Likewise the laser lance is a good dependible thing to put on an apc. Pair it with the grenade launcher
>>2349393Equip concealment and battle rifles+ some heavy long range weapons and you should be able to do it on some missions.
Promotion tax is such a tedious bullshit mechanic, but of course there are fanboys vehemently defending it. It should be entirely removed. Maybe make promotion points harder to come by or something.
>laser riflesThey don't have endurance during a fight, they don't deal any better against Menace than a regular rifle. They're only cool for roleplaying guardsmen and wearing armor with few pockets.>laser lanceTank gun and extra ammo and a spotter. You don't need to be mounted when spotters are supposed to always be running ahead of the vehicles. Achilleas double tapping armor with the cannon is always fun.
>>2349389>trannies shit up the board there for I troon and shit up the board tooNo
>tfw finally trying expertJesusIf not for Darby this shit would be impossible. I've literally put all my promotion points on her.
>>2349479Without promotion tax people would only field 3 star SLs
What's the best squaddie-to-SL ratio?
>>2349494Generally speaking, if you're gonna focus on the special weapon you want a skeleton crew of 2 squaddies, if you're going to mainly be shooting with your squad weapons you want to max them out.There's exceptions, like Carda, but that's the rule
>>2349480lasers rifles are good against heavy infantry, way better than other rifles. They are good options against alien warriors and the heavier menace, though for menace you should probably just go all in on autocanon mechs. Their main gain is they dont suck against regular infantry like dedicated AT options do.The laser lances entire point is it doesnt run out of ammo so you can use it freely.The apc with laser lance and grenade launcher with a laser rifle and fatigues infantry inside is cheap for its capability. It grenades things for killing and suppression, has the internal infantry that can target any unit in the game, even securing kills on badly damaged heavy tanks, from the front, if you have nothing better to do, and the laser lance one shots weak pirate vehicles, does decent damage against other vehicles, and is able to deal with alien warriors and the menace heavy infantry guys well.Laser lance on its own is bad because you have to waste time venting, but when put on an apc with grenades and the option to simply move forward for better positioning you dont wind up using it often enough that you usually need to vent. It becomes the secondary weapon of the setup, but it instantly solves a lot of problem you might run into.The tank gun prevents you from carrying the cost effective laser+fatigues infantry. The drawback of laser rifle is its short range and so this is why it pairs well with the setup.For regular infantry you always want a silenced crowbar or a hammer.For dedicated combat vehicle medium autocanon mechs are good because with enough extra ammo they are good against everything. You mow down all infantry, destroy all vehicles, and can even focus down a heavy tank from the front with a couple of them faster than maneuvering around it allows.
For the love of God Carda DO NOT MISS
>>2349503Did she miss?
>>2349504Hooah
Is it just me or is the T2 DMR kind of dogwater>same AP cost as the Crocodile>same shots in a volley as the Crocodile>same range as the Crocodile>less damage, less armor pen for a little more magazine depth
>timers are bad REMOVE ALL THE BONUS OBJECTIVES>supply points are bullshit>gameplay loop is too hard and pointlessWhy are Steam discussions so utterly and blitheringly retarded beyond all human measure?
>>2349511it's better vs aliens I guess
>>2349507Clutch baby
>>2349512>timers are badEarly game many of the timers are mathemically unattainable. And even late game in the hunt X number of enemies missions.
>>2349512Gameplay loop is too pointlessly long. Scale every reward and enemy progression rate by 2x, or offer a slider to control this. They do love their sliders in the menus so why not give us another?
i just think they need something to boost the first couple of operations in expert mode, and cap operations at 3 mission long, the 4 mission long ones are kind of a drag.also guarantee you dont get stuck with the same faction in a row. to mix it upotherwise supply points are fine (they might need an increase in early game though)
>>2349519They're bonus objectives, though. They should be difficult to attain and it fits with the nature of the game's scenario>>2349523I kind of agree with this but the discussions were more to the tune of "I don't actually like this kind of game but it's all of you who are retarded for having fun"
>>23494944-62 only if its a dedicated weapons team, but this really doesn't work well in practice because your SL overhead tax on each weapon team just sucks all the points out of your actual line infantry, and a lot of special weapons actually suck ass, like probably 70% of them. Most tripod ones you can just throw away right off the bat. Only the autocannon and grenade launchers are worth it but only if your SL has high accuracy which again means you're paying too much for your weapons team. Also the AI will just skirt around your weapon ranges anyway so it just feels pointless to bother. Some of the LMG's are pretty good but not for weapons teams and you won't see them until late game when you don't need them anymore.There is no good reason to use 3 squaddies.4 without a special weapon is good for your spook squads like darby and kody or anyone who gets some kind of damage bonus for whatever reason. If you add a special weapon then you've got to add another squaddie to keep the damage output up, otherwise drop them down to a 2 squaddie squad and ditch their gun for pirate pipeguns.5 is a good baseline for regular infantry squads without special weapons6 is when you've added a special weapon to your regular infantry or feel like you need to upgun as a little luxury7 and 8 squaddies are noob traps. The damage output of the squad is already good enough at 5 or 6 to handle everything important. It's pretty much always better to have another squad of 5-6 than bringing the rest of your current ones up to 7 or 8. Basically everything is better - more ammo, more action points, more coverage, more hp, more accessories, more resilience.Think about what the bare minimum to do the job is. Like if you want a stealth squad, you only need 2-3 concealment and with concealment you don't have to worry about being shot, so it's actually more points efficient to run loadbearing rig + the concealment accessory than it is to use the stealth armors.
>>2349512The bonus objectives definitely need a rework.Timers aren't horrendous but sometimes are stupidly easily, sometimes nearly impossible.Avoid destroying 3 structures is definitely the worst one. Often its not up to your choice, what counts as a structure is far too broad, and it just constrains tactics and tool options which were already pretty meh. OCI call ins other than mines and turrets, intentionally targetting cover to remove it form enemies etc. Those are interesting but generally suboptimal choices, that you don't even get to consider in half the missions because of the bonus objective.
>>2349535>reddit spacing>being this wrongpottery
What the hell does jingwei even mean? I don't speak chinkbabble.
>>2349539>>reddit spacingWoop woop newfag alert
>>2349535>Only the autocannon and grenade launchers are worth itStopped reading there.Recommending anyone to use the autocannon instead of M6 CMG as primary "fuck everyone up" tool is all I need to know you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
>>2349548>autocannon kills everything>machine gun doesnt kill everythingi bet you think it makes sense to have specialized anti tank units than just give everyone multipurpose setups so you spend less time maneuvering
>>2349548Literally just the M2 browning still existing in sci-fi settings and it actually being really good is one of my favourite tropes.
>>2349549>3 shots meaning each miss is a catastrophic loss of damage>terrible against infantry>not all that good against anything heavier than a light pirate truck>WORSE armor penetration than M6, meaning it has a harder time challenging armor when it hits>worse overall suppression power>worse overall hitpoint damage>worse overall armor shredThere's quite literally not a single scenario where autocannon comes close to what M6 does.The only time it can be argued to be useful is on a twin-linked setup on a medium mech.
>>2349545Pbly supposed to he derived from junta but made more science fictiony
>>2349547Chinese spirt, apparently it's a tale of a woman drowning in the sea that turned into a bird, she persisted carried sticks and rocks to fill the eastern sea because it empty, yeah it pretty silly, even for a mythology story but she symbolized determination and fighting against impossible odds and being a spirt guardian so that probably the reason behind the naming of the planetary jingwei
>>2349545For fuck sake, wrong dude
>>2349479The entire promotion perk system and building you SL feels iffy to meSome SL are so defined by their initial perk that it basicaly makes no sense to pick any other perk that doesnt build upon that. So you build "options" are basicaly your flavor generic perks or even taking nothing extra so as to not pay supply tax over promotions.Some other SL perks, rely on actually equipment drops, so you either put on hold their perk progression until you get the gear needed for it to come online, or put your points into generic perks and the hope you have the points to buy the rest once the RNG blesses you with what you want.Then you have shit that the the devs seem like to want you to make a build around it but, it is so sub suboptimal that you might as well do anything else. Or SL that are poop and their build is basicaly not make them so poop.
>>2349570Yeah it kinda bothers me how shoehorned some of them are. I feel it's gonna take a long time balance out. BB had a similar problem, especially early on.
>>2349570>>2349571This is definitely a result of the entire SL system being redone so late in development. Like even for the demo they just had the one unique perk everything else they were identical. Who knows how long it will take to sort out an entire attribute, growth and perk system that was changed just like 3 months ago
I love how every single SL can be described by two words and you can instantly understand who I am talking about.Giga NiggerAngry IndianWaifu MartianBossy CrackerWhite WomanTerrorist GingerAustralian WankerOld GuyLoud RussianAnd so on
>>2349563put two of them on a medium mecha single autocanon is crap
>>2349586indian burn victim being sexually aroused by tinnitus-inducing gunfire makes my pp twitch
>>2349563The vehicle HMG has less armour damage than the tripod one, so there's a bit of difference.Buy yeah the tripod autocannon is always a worse choice than tripod HMG.
What the game lacks the most is complexity on the strategic layer. Both between and during operations. I want to know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it instead of just clicking on the next mission because that is what I'm supposed to do.
>>2349586Oh absolutely, I'm not disputing twin-linked autocannons being the best twin-linked option.But medium mechs are NOT infantry, so it's beside the point for this discussion.
OHNNNHENHEHHHOHNNNHENHEHHHHHH*guitar**ominous orchestra*
Suffice to say none of the pirate trucks survived.Also I want rotation free camera god damn it. I dont care it breaks shit or the background is empty and theres no skybox.
>>2349692I love how the light APC is just a Boxer/Stryker, and the IFV is literally a bradley hull
>finally get a mortar after getting terrorized by the Rogue mortar teams>payback time bitches>...>it neither suppresses nor damages anythingI kind of get it that in player's hands it's kinda useless because otherwise it would be disgustingly OP (as is always the case with artillery in games) but I still feel scammed
>>2349699The light mortar absolutely fucks enemy infantry.
>>2349700There's the shit mortar you can buy on the black market, and the okay light mortar dropped by RAit's great for smoke, but I just stick it on Pike so he can hypesquad and throw out the odd shell
>>2349708I've only seen two mortars, the light 60mm mortar and the heavy 80mm mortar
Is the recruitment pool biased towards marines early on or on lower difficulties or anything? Because my first run through towards the end of early access scene had me recruiting the entire starting marine roster, plus Singh. That's it. Only in the postgame when I could afford more dossiers do the other pirates and locals show up.
>>2349722It's completely rng afaik. I haven't checked if some seeds have guaranteed drops though
>no way to fit two twin-linked minigunsMy fun is raped and I'm going to kill myself
>>2349722Recruiting is seed related.
>It's a Darby gets weary so now you're fucked episode
>>2349722When you start a campaign you can buy two infantry dossiers before taking the first mission. You can keep trying new seeds this way until you find one where it's two non-marines.I did this on my second campaign to get some new characters.>>2349726All seeds have guaranteed drops. Recruitment order is fixed for every seed (I guess to avoid people savescumming when buying dossiers until they get who they want).
EAT DOG EAT WOOF WOOF WOOF
>>2349735Imagine if the heavy mech could do it.
The most fun missions are when you defend or capture a location. The AI is aggressive and actively come to fight you.The most boring missions are when you have to sweep an area of enemies and you get stuck on nighttime on blizzard planet. Takes 20+ turns slowly walking around the entire map in shit visibility while the enemy tries to run away from you.
>>2349535You're wrong and the overthinking you do about imaginary margins is wasteful. You take as many squaddies as you can if you intend to rely on the squad weapons, you take as few as you can if you rely on the special weapon. It's just that simple.Notable exception is Carda.
>>2349771The heavy mech better be quadrupedal. Spider mechs are criminally underrepresented
>>2349774I also avoid sweep missions, mostly because the game expects you to spread but realistically most SLs aren't self sufficent enough so they need to cover each other weakness and move as a unit
>>2349779>The heavy mech better be quadrupedal.It's gonna be an Atlas looking motherfucker
>>2349781I doubt it. Arms and visible cockpit is far away from the aesthetic they're going for of twenty-minutes-into-the-future military hardware.
If a squad can have special equipment and shit with 3 members, why can't I have two special equipments with six?
>>2349788Because only the squad leader is proficient with special weapons.
>>2349788Some of the early dev diaries talk as if this was planned at some point, the idea of multiple squad special weapons.It'd be pretty cool getting to have full heavy weapon team squads. Some of the heavy weapons might get a lot less shit if you can have multiple and twinlink them like medium mechs as well.The technology is there but the devs hate us so it will never happen.
>>2349790Just have one of the guys carry the other and swap for use.
>no roadmap>no dev diaries >only item bloat updatesYep, it's dead.
>>2349699Yeah it's mostly a nuissance that serves to build up your suppression. On one hand I'd love for it to be more usable for killing stuff. On another, that would also mean RA's 4-5 mortar teams would go from bothering and killing a squadie every now and again to chunking your squads with little to no counterplay save for smokes. Vehicle mounted heavy mortar actually feels strong to use but I've only found it once across all my runs.
>>2349800you're a retard
https://youtu.be/plgg9sSLRvQ?list=RDplgg9sSLRvQThis music plays when I perform a tactical move of pure genius I jetpacked Rewa into the midst of a pirate base with twin autocannons and morale-broke their entire army in a single turn
We really need more SL, I find the vehicle users right now a bit limited.Also its curious but I feel like Gabriel portrait was from a time when maybe he was supposed to be a drop ship pilot, the helmet he carries certainly seems more for aircraft.
>>2349399I haven’t meet the menace in run where I picked new tricks on Bogs but hes hovering around 79 accuracy with no disposition buffs.He can and he WILL hit the side of many barns.
Btw the ammo drop is not as bad as I thought. Quite decent if a bit redundant in terms of what you expend in missions right now.
So does the critical hits perk just add extra crit chance or is it its own separate thing?
>>2349829I think it is just a flat 12%~ damage increase as of now. Squad weapons roll for damage/hits per each individual attack, which is rate of fire per squaddie afaik
>>2349823>I find the vehicle users right now a bit limited.I don't see what niches are lacking for the vehicles and equipment we have now, save weapon types alone.>Achilleas: Survivable, deadly in IFV and Mech>Rewa: Pure offense in IFV or Mech>Bog: Budget vehicle>black girl: Dedicated tank destroyer>Exconde: Dedicated troop transport
>>2349831ye I was just wondering how the perk stacked with regular crit chance
>>2349837I think I found a nice recon spot for Exconde in light mechs with bags and belts and divine intervention. He usually can force scout the enemy take a shot or two and eat a rogue army missile. Its a great skill. A bit meme but also tanky.
>>2349837A recon and or stealth pilot would be cool.And side grades.
>>2349779Maybe, I think the game is leaning towards a chunky bipedal, kinda wish the mechs had a drift ability to go longer distances in a straight line, and also a hover mode, gunship like to recon and fire atgm while airborne for a round. Think it woudl be cool.But that would be too much focus on mechs. I think the heavy will likely be similar to medium but with heavier weaponry.
>>2349847>>2349771>>2349779I think the closest depiction of what the heavy mech will be is Battletech's Warhammer, sans the arm/obvious cockpit.
>>2349845I was thinking also that a stealth mech pilot woudl be cool since I love jump shenanigans.And and artillery specialist. Who yells all the time.
>>2349849Yeah I can see your line of thinking yeah, also the modern Battlemaster has the military look that would fit the game somewhat sans hands and a big long tank gun piece in one side and some other stuff in the other.
>>2349857>We're getting the MackieI am ready
>>2349858Adding to that, two heavy mounts makes sense, with maybe a light mount on top.But two heavy mounts is absurd overkill for any-one enemy we're currently facing, so I'm cautiously hype for the kind of bullshit we'll base facing in T3.
>>2349845>reconExconde has the scout perk and I belive he is the only one who has it
>>2349861Yeah. He can sort of do it, but it's obviously not really the intent for him.
>>2349861Exconde is purpose built to be the "lead from the front transport" pilot.He can self spot, he has zig zag, fervor and divine intervention to not get punished for being aggressive.I cannot tell you how many times I throw him in the middle, pop out yaz with a short range smg, shoot a bunchof dudes 3 times and apply dots and rout them if not outright kill them and pop back in
>>2349867I swear to god I think he has real talent has mech pilot simply because he can tank a hit form Rogue Army that woudl usually one shot your mech. And has the opportunity to back off.Honestly I kinda bummed only of his initial skill everything else he seems quite solid. Either recon mech pilot or regular tanker. I know the real deal with him is mobile infantry but I was just trying with different roles.
>>2349763>5th operationPretty sure you can hire another SL.
>yet another shit game that has to be fixed by moddersHow fucking embarrassing>>2349512Stop playing on normal, casual.
>>2349881>the vanilla AI avoids attacking anything if they are remotely toughjesus fuck who made this retarded pussy AI
>>2349861Achilleas can get it as well, throw the improved sensors accessory on top and he can happily go play around as a pretty much entirely self sufficient combat monster.
>>2349869The problem with that strat is RA. Divine intervention only procs once, and late-game there's never just one ATGM team, and not even smoke can stop lock-ons once he's locked on. Against RA, you can only use him until you run out of smokes to stop that first lock-on, and then he's dead.
Are all Martians tiny like Marta?Shouldn't they be lanky due to Mars's low gravity?
>>2349917gravity is fake anon
>>2349778You are wrong and don't think through anything about the game.I see elsewhere that retards think 8-man squads are ideal. They are not. "Oh but I want maximum firepower", well you retarded niggercattle you can put those squaddies into another squad spreading out your firepower out and preventing it all getting locked down by one mistake. Or just faceroll into the AI and get your 8 man squad pinned and reload the game 50 times until it finally works out for you. Lucky for you, that is also a viable strategy.>>2349548C6 is ok and one of the other tripod mounts that works, I didn't say there were only two like you assumed as some kind of mentally deficient retard, but they nerfed it from the demo when it was really good. Now it's just mediocre. The autocannon works just fine as long as it's on a high accuracy SL as I stated. None of the tripod mounted weapons are standout specifically because the AI skirts around them as much as possible, but they can still be used as long as you put in the extra effort to make it happen. All around they are not ideal and most players will naturally find themselves avoiding the tripod weapons because the cost savings are a meme and the AI cheats concealment.>>2349539There is no such thing as reddit spacing you dumbass newfag.
>>2349883Someone who thought he was too clever for the end users and ignored everyone's feedback from 6 months ago.
>>2349920>There is no such thing as reddit spacing you dumbass newfag.Wtf are you even talking about. Yes there is.
>>2349927No there isn't you absolute dumbfuck tourist. It was nothing but a meme to draw out retards who've never used 4chan and come here directly from reddit. You don't understand a goddamn thing about this place and stick out like a sore thumb. Nobody gives two fucking shits about how your text is formatted except newfags desperate to fit in.So sit down and shut the fuck up.
>>2349928>Losing his shit over being called a redditor>dogshit opinions>continues to format his text like a retardLurk more. Finish a run of the game before you post a shit take.
>>2349883>>2349881Did they try to overcomplicate the AI and try to badly make it 'smart', without thinking about what would be fun?
>>2349929How about you shut the fuck up newfag. You contribute absolutely nothing to every discussion and whine about how someone formats their fucking text like some effeminate eunuch. You piss and shit yourself over "reddit spacing" because you don't have a fucking argument. It's worth even less than a "no you!" due to your lack of fucking balls to just disagree. You hide like a coward behind a concern troll over grammar, because you know you don't have an actual argument.I do not give two fucking shits about what you think reddit spacing is. Go stick your reddit spacing up your fucking asshole.>>2349933Terra Invicta and Long War for nu-xcom 1 (less so for nu-xcom 2) both have the same kind of feeling to their AI behaviour that this game does. To wrap it up in as simple a way as I can think, the AI is designed to metagame and thus, to be metagamed. Which is exactly what happens - the AI knows where your concealed units are, it knows how to perfectly avoid deployed/anti-tank weapons and skirts around it all without taking risks. Not because it actually makes any sense - by any right the ideal approach in most missions is the AI being absurdly aggressive as it massively outnumbers the player and doesn't need to care about losses at all - but because someone thought they were being clever and countering 'good player' strategies and therefore making the AI harder.They actually made the AI stupidly easy. It's just that now the player must also metagame the AI because its behaviour is ABSURD. You know it's going to perfectly skirt your antitank weapons on a breakthrough map so you purposefully deploy cheap weapon teams and leave a gap that goes through a minefield and into your actual force, and the AI beelines its entire army into that gap and dies.Whereas a human player facing the same situation would scout and probe, fix strong units (and I don't mean the suppression mechanic necessarily) and go around or break the remaining hardpoints.
>the AI work perfectly guy is back>he is still as retarded and obnoxious cunt like he always was( and will be)
>>2349946>reddit spacingWhy you have to be mad, is only 4chan.
>>2349933>Did they try to overcomplicate the AI and try to badly make it 'smart', without thinking about what would be fun?yes, that was also the thing with BB AI(still is to a extent) >>2349925Devs are averse to real feedback, especially if it goes against their head canon, honestly I do not expect it become any better
>>2349946AI sucks but seriously, chill out, why you playing to the hands of baiters and sperg like some retard with chip on his shoulder?
>>2349954I enjoy being mad. >>2349952>>2349953I have been in those shoes, on the receiving end of such feedback. Very often, what a player is telling you is both absolutely fucking retarded, and also true. The struggle isn't listening to feedback, it's UNDERSTANDING the feedback. Players will tell you all kinds of stupid shit about what they think is happening and how it could be fixed. You, as a dev, have to be able to intelligently interpret and parse what they are ACTUALLY saying.By far the most important thing you have to do when you're getting feedback is kill your own ego and view it all as dispassionately as possible, and I just don't think most people in general are capable of it. Certainly not the kind of emotional and neurotic wrecks that make up most development and modding teams these days.For this AI, they are clearly trying to make it difficult, that's good.What is not good is the AI making nonsense decisions because it knows things it shouldn't, as a shortcut. Not because shortcuts like this are bad, but because the end result of this shortcut is not working.The game in general feels designed by people who are not actually familiar with battlefield tactics and strategies, or war in general, but instead with videogames and puzzles. A battle is a puzzle to solve; not a series of actions and reactions. The AI perfectly avoiding unit ranges is the sort of behaviour you'd see in a puzzle game like Advance Wars, but it is not what a human player or a real military action would be like. It is not what happens in a tactics game.When you understand they are designing this like a puzzle game and not a tactics game, you understand why the AI is how it is and why they've ignored so much feedback on it; because you (and I and likely much of their audience for this game) want a tactics game, not a puzzle game. They maybe don't even realize this themselves.
>>2349881>wtf playing on harder difficulties is too hard>no I'm not gonna turn the difficulty down, I'm gonna call the devs a retard instead
>>2349961>>wtf playing on harder difficulties is too hardthe problem is that playing is too easy and AI is too easy to break
>>2349958It may be that devs are now behind hundreds of discord and steam mods and outsourced both game development and feedback, so they get filtered feedback if any at all.Of course that is only one of possibilities
All of the SL automatic special weapons really ought to fire more shots or cost less AP. Only the light """chaingun""" stands out in this regard and for no particular reason other than the risk of being completely useless when it jams on the first salvo. Another option would be to roll it into the standard attack so the SL fires along with the squad like normal except his weapon just behaves differently and theoretically is better.1 - everyone shoots, max range is set to lowest denominator, 2 - fire squad weapons only, 3 - fire MG / IAR only
>>2349961Making the AI more aggressive makes the AI more difficult, not less. Especially on challenging and expert where it's got the numbers to suffer some losses just to get in range and cause attrition.I can't even count the number of times I moved a squad forward without doing any recon, and then revealed a hidden unit perfectly positioned to gape my squad's collective puckered assholes, and the enemy unit falls back instead of engaging because the AI calculus favored caution over aggression for some absurd reason.>>2349963Who can say for sure. As a dev, you've got to be on top of gathering feedback and finding ongoing discussions, preferably where those discussing actually don't know if anyone is listening, as that tends to be more authentic. Two friends discussing the game in a private steam chat with each other is more illuminating than a feedback forum or a discord chat dedicated to the game.>>2349967During the demo I felt that the way special weapons worked was ok; takes away a little firepower for some utility.But now I think you're correct - the squad special weapon, at least some of them like the LMG's, should be making attacks alongside the rest of the squad's regular attacks. As it stands currently, there's pretty much zero draw to an LMG (certainly with the same range as your rifles but less killing potential and only a little more suppression), when you might as well just shoot the regular rifles, deal more damage, AND get reliable suppression effects on top.Or it could be that armor does indeed need a buff/armor pen on rifles a nerf/LMG's an armor pen buffthere's a few ways it can really go, but right now it feels like having a special weapon in a squad that isn't anti-tank or a cover ignoring grenade launcher is a mistake.It also doesn't help at all that the LMG's in particular are so far backloaded in the game's progression that you don't see them until your primary weapons have alrady become do-everything superguns.
>>2349969The problem with current special weapons is partially connected with SqL extra deploy costs which make weapon teams extra costly compared to riflemen teams
>>2349972Well you're paying the overhead on an SL either way, but I get what you mean; you can't have genuinely cheap squads because of that overhead. You either commit to making the squad an effective generalist, or you've got an expensive weapons team that isn't very good outside niche situations that the AI actively avoids.I don't know how much the AI pays for their 2 man snipers or 3 man autocannons and mortars, but it's probably sub-100 pts. Almost certainly sub-150, and you'd struggle to match that even with a 1-star SL like jean with a 15% off coupon, let alone any of the actual capable squad leaders, and even if you do match what the AI pays, you've only got jean. You don't have 5 jeans to spread the teams around like the AI does.
>>2349975No you don't get it, he's saying special weapons have to deploy when riflemen don't.
>>2349967Special weapons that aren't specifically anti tank definitely need to be looked at. Hell even the mining laser could use an AP reduction. The airburst grenade launcher also has a chance to jam ON ANY SHOT. I can understand if they want to limit you spamming it, but this is not how you balance a weapon.
>>2349972It is partially connected but it isn't the root of the problem. Tech is a bignig and can fire an MMG standing, but then you realize the game makes him so small when you fire the MMG and its a very short burst. It is said over and over but a whole squad of people firing their primaries does the same thing, so there is simply no purpose to this. If you bring Tech with a min-size squad then he also feels small because its just one dude with a machinegun. This all goes for DMRs as well, those should be able to fire alongside the squad.The SL-only weapon option has a "hold your nose" smell from a game design standpoint. This needs rework.
>>2349928You clown lol.
>>2349950>everyone who disagrees with me is the same personYou need to learn new rhetoric lol. Been playing this game for weeks and you've never once been correct
>>2349341the game is easy rnit's never that randomly punishing either unlike battle brothers which is niceeven a direct artillery shell doesn't instakill a whole squad
>>2349958>players will tell you all kind of stupid shit about what they think is happening and how it can be fixedYeah, the entire rest of your post and this thread in general is proof of that.
>>2350002>>everyone who disagrees with me is the same person>You need to learn new rhetoric lol. Been playing this game for weeks and you've never once been correct
Oh no, another schizo melty.>there are multiple people with same opinion? And their opinion is different than mine? Must be a big hooded horse pro AI conspiracy it's the only thing that makes senseyou know what? You faggots are so insufferable I'ma just shit this thread up on purpose. It's nothing but an echo chamber for like the same 3 or 4 shitters and the jannies don't seem to care so whatever.
>>2350014>Oh no, another schizo melty.>>there are multiple people with same opinion? And their opinion is different than mine? Must be a big hooded horse pro AI conspiracy it's the only thing that makes sense>you know what? You faggots are so insufferable I'ma just shit this thread up on purpose. It's nothing but an echo chamber for like the same 3 or 4 shitters and the jannies don't seem to care so whatever.Lmao
>Oh no, another schizo melty.>>there are multiple people with same opinion? And their opinion is different than mine? Must be a big hooded horse pro AI conspiracy it's the only thing that makes sense>you know what? You faggots are so insufferable I'ma just shit this thread up on purpose. It's nothing but an echo chamber for like the same 3 or 4 shitters and the jannies don't seem to care so whatever.Lmao
>>2349958>The struggle isn't listening to feedback, it's UNDERSTANDING the feedback. Players will tell you all kinds of stupid shit about what they think is happening and how it could be fixed. You, as a dev, have to be able to intelligently interpret and parse what they are ACTUALLY saying.Just need to pay attention to "what is happening" part and completely ignore "how it could be fixed" part.
