i demand space boarding battles

im still trying a no 3 star SL run and its going well though im not that far in.
The tech buff improves it a lot, and using some of the other SL like a sy drug addict build is amusing. There are other viable ways to play the game than mech stomping with darby soloing a flank.

>>2357511
>How goes your crew?
I stopped using vehicles altogether. Return to grunt.

>>2357511

Honestly I want a seed where i can recruit all the OG marines first then get the mercs.

i kind of hope in the future when more SL are added they do the thing where you can only get marines for your initial picks. This would make each run more different and make the marines feel more special

>>2357544
Not a bad idea and honestly very fun, but losing squadies can get intense, EXWOO and adv medical bay however make you very hp resilient.

Kinda gives you a more guerrilla type feel to the game. Although I really fucking love that long tank gun.

When do i get better jump pack armors? I have the boarding commando ones(unless those are the best ones?). Also im around the 10th mission in general, did I miss my chance to give my jump boys a shotgun? Hasn't shown up in a bit, but I wanted to wait till I have armor piercing ammo first.

>>2357670
there is no other jump pack armor thats the only one

>>2357555
>>2357670
Use mods.

>>2357670
Until they add crafting/more jetpack suits, boarding commando armor is all there is.
And considering that their content roadmap has neither any given time tables nor any meaningful content planned, that's all you are getting for atleast a year.

did you know that despite making up less than 20% of the Wayback's population, Rhakarians take up more than 80% of space in Wayback prisons?

>>2357689
Raperations For Rhakarians

>>2357689
Maybe they commit more crimes?

How is the new patch, think Im gonna play a bunch tonight
Also, Frankie love

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>when the RA expert army point scaling gets to the level of them rushing your position with 4x mega hetzers
good thing rewa action economy is insane. love that currynigress

>>2357720
White british voice actor by the way

>>2357720
Honestly her face does not look Indian, she looks mroe like a BR.

Iam still figuring out how armor works, does it always chip away when getting hit, and if there penetration or bounce off mechanics.

>>2357722
If it pierces, weapon deals HP damage - fall off but no armor damage.
If it doesn't pierce, weapon deals armor damage but this can't lower the armor below a certain treshhold.

>>2357722
I don't really get it, either. It looks like it's been through a few reworks, since when you hover over the "shoot" button, it shows armour penetration as a %.
Armour penetration is checked against the enemy, isn't it? So 45 pen vs. 90 armour would be 50% penetration? 50/50 chance of hitting armour or body?

Fuck it, I just shot enemy with big boolit until they die. Works evri tiem.

>>2357788
100% chance of hitting armor, 50% chance of penetrating and dealing hp damage, 50% chance of not penetrating and dealing armor damage

imo they need to either decrease armor damage x10 or increase armor durability x10, it basically doesn't matter if anything has armor, you shoot it for a turn or two and it's dead anyway.

>>2357793
In that case, are hollow points the best bullet accessory?
+10 hp damage, when you'll chew through their armour anyway, is a lot of extra damage for just -10 pen.

>>2357796
Hollowpoints generally are pretty good yeah.

>>2357796
darby, 2 squaddies, ranged kpac, hollowpoints, cost 200ish supply, kills all rogue army and pirate squads except boarding commandos and heavy armor in 1 attack

>>2357735
That makes sense yes, and visually from what Ive been experiencing.

So it does make sense to stack big armor and maybe those armor plates for infantry, another reason to have bags and belts.

>>2357793
If that’s the case then vehicles would be ultra sturdy and be a rng affair.

Might not be bad cause vehicles could duke it out between themselves using front armor while the infantry got an incentive to flank and shoot at side or back armor.

Reminder, anything outside of only using fully concealed crowbar squads and vehicles with tank guns is Dead Content, as the Community began to call it. If you're running with something different, you're playing suboptimally. Stop engaging with Dead Content.

>>2357511
>women and black peepo
nice team you got there faggit

>>2358198
It will be kinda sad if they nerf it too much but hey.

>>2358219
it's just the nature of the system they designed. The game mechanics inherently encourage conceal sniping and that won't change until they change how concealment works on a mechanical level.

The fact they just kind of skipped over one of the most important parts of war - scouting and intelligence gathering to find targets to engage - is actually incredible to me. This dev team doesn't know what war is. To use an analogy, this game is like seeing a liberal artist drawing a firearm. It superficially has the appearance of a gun - or war game - but once you look at the details, everything is out of whack - they don't know what they're making or how it should look; which is necessary even if you're creating an abstraction, the same as a studious and serious artist studies anatomy before he draws in a cartoon style.

>>2358244

It will probably be nerfed.

Enemies coming in and out of the fog of war is a staple of turn based games like these.

In close combat, which I mentioned a couple of times, the systems were so complex most missions were design around the enemy just using scripted sequences or rushing you as soon as it spots you. Everything in Menace is not new.

>>2358244
Given how the Squad Leaders are all superheroes, and have joke personalities, I don't think they're really going for a serious wargame.
Maybe they wanted to do that at first, but it's hero marines saving the day, now.

>>2358249

The game rides a fine line with that, at least its not super self aware like most shit there days. Its really like Predator.


Honestly I kinda wish this was in the Aliens universe, we never got the Aliens rpg, and Dark Descent is fine but a bit of a blob in terms of gameplay.

>>2358253
Every time I play this game I feel like I'm playing a fork / fangame based off colonial marines from ss13

>>2358249
they are a bunch of unstable people who volunteered for a sketchy mission for one reason or another

>>2358244
if they removed artillery (so sitting in concealment was not a constant necessity) and buffed armor plus damage falloff (so sniping was bad) they could fix this
but they wont and the game will always be wearing camo plus camo gear and taking free shots while the enemy can't even fire back

>>2358320
That's the nature of modern warfare. You don't really get squad on squad action like this unless it's some specops shit or you're reminiscing about world war 2.

Artillery, airstrikes, drones have all completely invalidated infantry engagements. Or rather have turned engagements into this:
>You spot the enemy infantry, you call in coordinates, call in an airstrike, call in drones. Those assets destroy the enemy infantry. Infantry themselves if they engage at all, do it with their own mortars or drones, not their rifles (distances are too great). The exception with rifles is when you are directly assaulting an entrenched position. There isn't any more 500m shootouts at targets you can barely see - you just call bombs on them if they're that far away.

The defense against this is to disperse your infantry and make them more mobile so engagements that would be done with multiple platoons (hundreds of men) in WW2 are now down with 1-2 squads (a dozen men, maybe two dozen). More than that + a couple vehicles in an attack is too obvious and brings massive strike package response on you. Mobility helps you avoid the attacks that do get directed your way.

OR to entrench the infantry so that killing a few soldiers takes excessive amounts of munitions and direct close range trench assaults.

There aren't enough armored vehicles for this kind of dispersion so troops make do with technicals, motorcycles, and horses. Motorcycles and horses are especially good because a single hit kills a single soldier instead of multiple soldiers.

Basically it's all concealment sniping and trench warfare but with artillery instead of snipers/guns.

There may be some return to ye olde armored manuever warfare if tanks get better self-propelled shorad, mine-clearing, and active protection systems against drones and missiles for the vehicles. A hard part there is advancing the static(ish) long range AA network with the armored units so they stay in cover and don't get bombed.

>>2358334
this is a video game about fun set in space where you sometimes fight literal aliens while wearing armored space jump suits shooting lasers and plasma guns

People thinking this game is supposed to be some sort of realistic dark gritty IP must be taking the piss.
It has a literal Mr.T giga-nigga who uses 'big black ass' as a descriptive for himself.

>>2358340
>charges at you
>stuns you
>hipfires a minigun at you
Eat dog eat aw awwwwwooo

>>2358339
>>2358340
What does any of that have to do with the reply chain? We already acknowledged that fact right at the very start of the conversation. >>2358244

They wanted to make a space marine tactics game without caring about real tactics or war. There's going to be a bunch of issues as a result. The best they can do with this game is basically just WW2 in space, but even their current concealment system simply doesn't work and needs to change just to make sense within the mechanics they HAVE developed.

At no point did anyone ever say "this game needs to be a turbo realism simulator" holy fuck

>>2358345
you're completely wrong but taking this post what does any of >>2358334 have to do with anything
concealment is not the issue the issue is
>armor sucks
>suppression is too good
>long ranged weapons are too good
>short ranged weapons aren't good enough
being spotted does not have to be a terrible thing
you have these a priori notions that
>it's not-ww2 in space with realism things so it has to be this way
why?
we could completely remove mortars from the game and the game would simply be better
heavy armor could completely negate suppression until it breaks and the game would probably be better
the current "optimal" strategy of sitting at max range plinking away is simply tedious after a while but there are no incentives to do anything else

imo they should make more missions about breaking entrenched enemy defences with emphasis on storming in wearing heavy armor and the dangerous enemies should be their own shock troops not jaegers which should exist to pick off weapons teams

it's absurd to even mention real conflict when air power is a complete joke in this game

The real MEANCE is this AI am I right fellas? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>2358401
>fix the AI the way everyone wants
>it's now even worse to play against
wooo

Kody's decoys are already perfect anti-bombardier, anti-mortar, anti-everything charms. But now I've realized they can also capture points. To win a capture mission, you can just vanguard deploy Kody, and he'll capture a point with his two imaginary friends before the enemy gets there.

>>2358407
sounds like a you problem

>>2358407
>implying they fixed the ai

>>2358425
It seems a bit more keen on pushing your hidden units now.

>>2358424
>he likes how it plays more now
Sounds like you're a retard lol
>>2358425
They fixed the most common complaint and now it runs away even more than it ever did. Now it truly just sits at max range and never fights even with a massive advantage

I'm hoping the first big update has big improvement to the AI (like actual scouting with proper units to suss the player out instead of just cheating knowledge of positions) and improvements to general game mechanics like concealment so it's more fun and interesting to play with, since its probably the most underbaked part of the core game mechanics right now.

I am like 99% certain it won't be that though. It'll probably be the 2 trannies on the dev team fangirling over their characters every update. >Darby can now date pike if you buy flowers off the black market in the second operation (,,>ヮ<,,)!
>We've added voiceovers for rewa and jean flirting during missions (they're lesbians!)

>>2358443
You sound like a colossal faggot lol

>>2358434
It's a little bit better about it, but still not great. It also moves into range of deployed weapons more often, but for the most part, like 90% of the time, it's the same problems as it was before, and it still knows where all your units are instead of finding and responding to them in an organic sensible way.

I increased the vehicular M6 to 15 shots (for one gun) and this seems much more balanced against other options. Less useless especially when twinned against vehicles, where normally the twin AC is better in virtually every way. Also upped the fire rate so it wouldn't take forever to finish a salvo. And this is with another personal mod nerfing twin linked weapon skills to 50 AP.

If Tech is going to run around with an M6 and heavy armor and not suffer from the semi-permanent crippling damage that vehicles can take, might as well make sure vehicle guns are better still, vehicle centric the game as it is for DPS roles.

Making camo less overpowered without upending the current system is pretty simple. Make it only apply when the unit is hugging cover or while moving to cover, otherwise the user gets a fat +0 to their concealment rating. Darby can be that one exception in that her skill is a flat +2 in any situation. This targets the concealed scout creep strategy in wide open areas. The planning map should be more detailed about the terrain features and easier to read if they do this however.

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>>2358448
It still works in the open.
There is a sniper hiding in this image! See if you can find him. I bet you can't.

>>2358448
The issue is not how concealment works it's how the ai responds to it and how alternative is simply worse.
Why wear armor when you can just be invisible?
Why get close when you can sit at max range and the ai simply lets you?
Why get close when many of your best weapons don't even perform better up close?
Why get close when it only increases the chance your guys die?
>The planning map should be more detailed about the terrain features
This should simply be true anyway. The game explicitly tells us multiple times that the Impetus is the best ship in the system and we have implied air superiority. Intel should not be nearly as restricted as it is. There should be a scout plane as an armament option which imo we should start with.
This already would encourage more aggressive gameplay because attacking would be far less risky when you have more than a vague notion of what is there. The shitty scout drone just dies and costs way too much AP for what it does.

Make timers more relevant. The promotion points are meaningless and the authority difference between 4 and 5 stars is insignificant (moreover it is often impossible to win in 12 rounds on expert and authority is ridiculously scarce too). Have enemy reinforcements arrive the longer the mission goes on and change the loot system to be less about killing everything and more about rewards. Why are we junk dealers trading hundreds of pipe guns and alien kidneys for basic kpac rifles? Add money ffs.
This would remove the tedium of mopping up the last few enemies on the map and then heading to the evac zone and make missions vastly more objective focused.
It should be possible to delay reinforcements by preventing alarm if you kill enemies in a single turn once they spot you but, once spotted, there would be an imperative too blitz the enemy and gtfo, which fits thematically.
Side objectives could be extra rewards based on stealing rare items rather than the shit they are now.

Tried doing an SMG-Darkie build...I think SMG's are just too short ranged to be viable, especially when high accuracy/perks assault rifle with hollowpoints tends to mulch infantry well enough.

>>2358479
The smg is good early it's comparable to shotguns but better against armored enemies. Although even later smgs are bis damage if you have Darby + camo + camo gear for 6 concealment.
I tend to give them or shotguns to whoever has a DMR because the sniper kills stuff at range and the smgs mulch anyone who gets close. Shotguns are better for people who can't aim.

>>2358476
>it is often impossible to win in 12 rounds on expert
It's impossible to win in 12 rounds if you sit at max range with your invisible squads. If you want five-star missions, you need to play differently, but the rewards are not significant enough to force you into playing aggressively. So in the end you can play any way you want. The balance is ok.

>>2358476
The problem really is how concealment works. It's an invulnerability field that invalidates armor and suppression, and the AI going after the players' concealed units using maphacks is a bandaid on a glaring problem in the game's design that is still very easily gamed around by the player.

Their concealment system is a little too simple for the rest of the game, and operates in a vacuum instead of interacting with the other game mechanics.

So it really does need to change. The best way to do that - I'm not sure, but simply changing AI behaviour does not resolve the problem.

>>2358481
Nah, even when you're speedrunning with vehicles and deleting everything you come across in a round of shooting without even getting shot back at, so pretty much just walking across the map effectively unopposed, it is still very easy to run out the clock.

>>2358481
>play and get 4 stars on operation
>get to pick between 3 rewards

>Play and get 5 stars on operation
>get to pick between 2 rewards

You actually aren't rewarded for getting 5 stars on missions at all lmao

>>2358480
You can literally just do darby + 2 squaddies, give her a ranged kpac and hollowpoints and she deletes squads at max range, you do not need 6 smg dudes and crawling into 3 tile range

You don't even need her concealment damage perk, and it doesn't even have to be darby or kody either, it can be any squad. kpac + hollowpoint deletes 90% of the infantry you run into. The remaining 10% just take an extra couple attacks to chew through the armor. Probably shouldn't even take damage perks - if you overkill by 5 instead of 2 it doesn't matter it's still getting discarded

>>2358481
It really isn't there are just too many enemies. Moreover the rewards from killing everything are way better than the extra star.
Squaddies are decently scarce on expert too. Early on you can rarely max out your squads and you can't really afford to lose a bunch of guys on every mission. Later this stops being a problem once you have exwoo and more vehicles.
>So in the end you can play any way you want. The balance is ok.
>

>>2358492
why are we comparing 3 kpac with hollowpoints to 6 smgs without?
you say it like hollowpoints are a box you can always tick and not an uncommon shop item which by itself is more expensive than smgs
>3 tile range
the mk46 and all late smgs have 6 range and are effective at max range only the m3a## has 5 range although i never use that ngl
they all get a semi auto double shot for +2 range but that sucks
they are outright the bis damage of any gun because they fire 5 times and this also makes them suppress anything they don't kill, which cannot be said of shotguns or kpacs
kpac gives more flexibility, sure, but on concealed squads smgs are more damage and arguing otherwise is simply wrong
do i usually run the suppressed sof rifles? yeah, because i reliably find them but the smg is still more damage

>>2358483
>simply changing AI behaviour does not resolve the problem.
concealment is not actually invincibility it only functions as such because the ai pretends it is
i regularly shoot at concealed units because you can and i know they didn't move after firing
if the ai shot back at where a unit fired from then i would not complain and it would drastically reduce the power of skirmishing since you would have to fire and then move rather than just unload
if the ai grouped up and aggressively pushed with armored units (and armor was better against suppression) then being concealed would not help once they got close but it doesn't because it walks around and deploys constantly

how do you react to jaegers? does the ai react the same?
no the ai just lets you snipe at it forever or runs away

>>2358498
idk what to say man

3 soldiers kill an entire squad with a kpac+hollowpoints at 8-9 tiles
With SMG's you gotta get to about 4, you're not killing anything at 6, and you'll need ~5 guys. You gotta spend more time getting into range, they threaten a smaller area, are much more vulnerable to return fire, and it also costs more supply

The only reason to take the SMG's is because you want to play with SMG's
longer ranged gun + hollowpoints is just an objectively better SMG

>>2358504
once again why are you implying that hollowpoints are freely available?
put hollowpoints on smgs and watch them obliterate everything too
smgs are, objectively, the best damage of any gun
they take more accuracy to use effectively at range and have slightly shorter range
>longer ranged gun + hollowpoints is just an objectively better SMG
for objectively more supply and objectively more cost
and smg + hollowpoints does objectively more damage
but at less range

>>2358514
>they have the highest damage of any gun
Yeah at less than 2 range. That drop off is enormous.

>>2358516
it is but they still do the most damage because they fire 5 times which also means they suppress
they're absolutely only fit for specific roles but smgs are completely fine and comparing them to a weapon + an accessory is just ridiculous
i haven't used the m3p whatever i'm talking about the mk46 because 5 range does seem excessively short
they outclass the shotgun in capable hands, particularly against armored enemies, which is saying a lot because the shotgun is great
if the meta wasn't sitting at max range sharpshooting then smgs would be very relevant on more elite assault troops

>>2358504
I'm going to have to try this mini-squad method. Don't you miss the damage multiplier of having more squaddies? An extra man is an extra gun, an extra load of damage.

>>2358519
the idea is with hollow points + good accuracy you don't need the extra rolls to hit because you land all your shots anyway and +10 damage is massive
it doesn't sound like it would be good vs heavy troopers etc though because hollow points iirc do not add armor damage rather only hitpoint damage but not every unit needs to do everything

>>2357544
lol I went the exact opposite way. All vehicles all the time, with only Darby as an infantry scout/spotter/sniper/objective claimer, with a stupid high concealment score so she doesn't get shot at ever.

I still have a bunch of infantry squads but they rarely see use anymore.

>>2358444
Perfect candidate for Menace dev team then.

>>2358476
>change the loot system to be less about killing everything and more about rewards
Literarily the demo system, sure it was simple but more fun because it caused equipment scarcity

>>2357537
Yeah me too, or underground megastructure missions.

>>2358527
Yeah I love vehicles as well but it's fun to use infantry once in a while.

>>2358415
Yeah he's perfect for defence unless they neuter his ability, also his perk makes him an absolute monster with an AMR.

>>2357819
Lmao perfect tea right here, fuck the grills.

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>>2358415
>he'll capture a point with his two imaginary friends

>>2358531
Storming bunkers and forts would make those infantry and short-range weapons make more sense.

I’m doing some mechwarrior shit atm.
Playing 3 medium mechs,
1 light transport with a scanner and grenades
8 rifles with lasers
Tech with a mounted laser- shotgun and heavy pirate jump armour.

>>2358538
I actually want to like the super heavy troop powered armour - but I’m just not sure how to use it outside of defences.

>>2358350
>heavy armor could completely negate suppression until it breaks and the game would probably be better
I don't think we should, humans are not robots, even if conciously you know you are impervious to damage subconsciously you will still be affected to some decree by a barrage of fire, no matter how grizzled or used to it you are

>>2358540
Tech's passive should have been the passive effect of the super heavy armor

Is there a known problem with the short tank gun? I find its AOE anemic and extremely inconsistent. It should do full damage to light vees yet I see it time and again make direct hits and do zero HP damage, barely scratching the armor too. Enemy squads sometimes act like I fired a smoke grenade at them; ie it didn't do shit.

>>2358542
It's almost like there is a discipline stat.
>>2358536
True.

Any way to modify the black market trade value multiplier? I read the mod loader's tutorial but it seems he doesn't know either. 1/4 value for trade ins is highway robbery, especially when rare items are 2x base value. Why is a barter economy even working on anything lower than 66% trade-in as the rock bottom?

>>2358548
You want what they have, so they set the price. No-one really wants your bug guts.

>>2358542

I really think heavy armor should be more study but have trouble at long range killing infantry, accuracy is too good. Same with using RPGs to kill heavy infantry.

Armor should duke it out at long range using cover as well and infantry should and mobile vehicles forces should try to flank heavy armor.

>>2358558
They can't make up their mind between realistic and good gameplay. On the one hand, yes, that vehicle is firing a turreted cmg50 which really should be more powerful than an entire fire team of infantry but on the other making vehicles so good reduces infantry to glorified spotters with the odd rpg.

I think the map gen is a big part of the problem. There is often a lot of completely open space and light cover is useless. It should be easy for infantry to hide in cover and extremely difficult to dislodge them without flanking. Between sharpshooter and grenade launchers it simply isn't though and the AI loves running around in the open anyway. Vehicles inherently struggle more with flanking because they are more exposed and can't maneuver as well.

We obviously wont be getting cqc and building interiors but they would improve the game a lot.
In general maps really need a lot more stuff and a lot less empty space though. The game is way better when you're fighting in a dense area with a lot of medium cover, grenade launcher not withstanding.

>>2358519
You literally delete an entire squad already anyway, you fire 9 bullets, a lot of squads are only 5-6 strong, but you can kill even a full squad if everything hits with the minimum squad size.

Let's suppose for whatever reason like maybe they have 50 point bodyarmor and it takes 2 bullets to kill a guy so you shoot a squad of 6; 9 bullets, half pierce round down, you kill 4, ok that's a squad that's now fleeing/disappears next round anyway and is suppressed too and heck you could just fire at them a second time if you want. Most of the enemies you run into I think only have 30 or 40 armor so it's even higher than 50/50 chance of a pen with hollowpoint, and each nonpen degrades the armor and increases the chance of future round penning.

Like I said 90% of the infantry in the game get fucked by this, the heavy armor infantry, well the hollowpoints aren't great but it's not like they're useless. Instead of killing them in 1 shot you have to take 3 shots. Not a big deal. Armor durability on everything is low enough that it doesn't feel punishing to use non-penetrating weapons, you just bruteforce through it with an extra attack or two and honestly using HP ammo over regular doesn't actually feel like it's slower to kill the heavy armor guys.

Anyway the big deal is just meeting breakpoints. Each extra point of damage past the first point added by HP ammo extends the 1 hit 1 kill distance on a kpac by 1 tile. +10 damage = 1hit kill out to max range (8, or 9 on ranged kpac).

AP is better for the heavy guys but they are rare + who cares if it takes 3 shots instead of 1? Most of the time that doesn't matter, especially with morale and suppression on top.

Out of the ammos hollowpoint's by far the best, always good
AP really niche, good for heavy infantry you don't run into much, or if you want to shoot vehicles with your rifles (dumb)
Match really niche, good if you want more range on a suppression squad and thats it
Rend lol wtf are you doing sell it

>>2358575
I don't think you play on expert.

>>2358577
Anon, come on. That's the weak criticism of what he said.

>>2358573
You don't even need to use sharpshooter. I was testing a mod that upped cover by 20% across the board and then added another +20% defense bonus if the attacker was >5 tiles away, and furthermore increased the defense bonus by 5% for each squaddie less than 9 in the squad, and the lowest I saw an attack roll go in the log was STILL 20%. Which in a lot of cases is still enough to kill 1-4 guys with one attack, which is more than enough to seriously degrade/effectively kill a squad in short order.

I don't know what the actual game calculations are doing for cover but it really doesn't feel like cover does shit for a unit. Like yes you can clearly see only 2 guys died instead of 6 but 2 guys dead in a squad is a massive degradation anyway.

>>2358575
>AP is better for the heavy guys but they are rare
Late game half the rogue army is made up of heavies and storm troopers. Pirates similarly start only fielding veterans and commandos.

>>2358573

My point is not about realistic it's about roles and finding a a middle ground. I dont mind games having busted shit actually, it's always fun to try stuff that underperforms for the fun of it.
I just think the way they want to approach the game is there ( demo) they just need to fine tune it.
Special operations like sieges and other scripted stuff like bosses woudl be fun as well and bosses are more or less confirmed.

Honestly the game is really reminding me of BB early days.There was a lot to work there as well and BB today still has weapons which outperform others to this day but dont invalidate other play styles.

>>2358577
I not only play on expert I've been playing on expert with the AI supply cranked up to 3x instead of 1.4x

I find it worrying that there is no mention of new factions in the roadmap. 4 factions can't be all that we get, right? One of the best things in Battle Brothers is how many different enemy types you can encounter. At the very least they should add Orks.

>>2358578
After the first 5 missions I see more veteran scavengers than scavengers and the RA is all heavies, SOF, and weapons teams. Maybe it's my seed.

>>2358581
And my point is that vehicles outperform infantry in almost every role irl. For anything which isn't spotting and hiding a vehicle is better.
This game isn't realistic, except when it decides to pretend that it is. So we end up with a half baked system and vehicles are the best way to kill everything.

>>2358586
What do you mean its right there?

>>2358586
i would rather have the existing factions fleshed out more and another added way down the line than have more factions which are indistinct

>>2358586
How many factions were in Battle Brothers?
>bandits
>nobles
>orcs
>undead
>animals
Not many, either.

>>2358593
It had a ton sub factions within those. Fighting lindwurms required completely different tactics and weapons from fighting the tone dudes or Hexes.

>>2358594
Menace factions have different units, too. You just face them all the same time in a single battle.

>>2358593
There are also goblins, ancient undead, barbarians, southerners, mercenaries and nomads. And each of the monster types is different instead of all being spider variants.

>>2358597

Special bosses and events.


The planet linked story they hint at might be nice if you sandbox the game, It would be cool to ally with a faction and start conquering another.

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>>2358443

The attack bridghead missions are really fun, you have some scouting objectives and its already kinda like the fortress siege I wanted.

All drugged up Jean makes a lot of sense now that I tried her, still a bit weak but you can sort of patch up her accuracy issues early game.

>>2358594
>>2358597
I'd love for Menace to get subfactions. For example instead of just a general "pirate" faction you could have:
>scavengers who make heavy use of stealth armor and a wide selection of different "scavenged" weapons and vehicles
>space pirates who use more high-tech weapons and boarding armor, but who rarely use vehicles
>Mad Max style raiders who use vehicles almost exclusively
>etc.

This would make a big difference in how encounters play out, instead a faction always using the same loadout and the only real difference between one encounter and the next being how many points they get to spend on units.

>>2358711

Agreed, that’s basically what they do in BB and turn the game into a puzzle tactics. And if not them I could see mods doing that.


I like the new lines the boarding commandos have, they are menacing.

>>2358671
I give her shotguns snd put her in my car. She sucks but she exists to be cheap and for that extra loot.

>>2358735
But the thing is you can really tell a difference between early hires and later ones.

My Bog in 3 runs is getting around 90 accuracy, so Jean can also with lots of drugs get into a position where she is quite decent. Like all cheapo mercs really.

haven't met MENCE yet, but the gameplay loop is pretty boring
theres needs to be long term effects the player can see they're contributing to

Just did a bridgehead mission with elite pirates and it was kinda great to sit back with two rocket batteries and just pummel their buildings to the ground.
I hope they improve the destruction of terrain even further.

Mogging on enemies that gave you trouble before should still be in the game in the end. I dont want them to balance shit into oblivion.

>>2358790
it would be nice to see the factions fight each other or somehow develop but i'm not holding my breath

>>2358892
if we look at battle brothers as an example the developer is going to add all kinds of stuff to the game. i wouldnt be surprised if multidimensional aliens or something show up before the end

>>2358897
Well if the map is any indication there's going to be at least 3 more planets

>>2358918
Temperate planet
Snow planet
Desert planet
Vietnam planet
Perpetual night planet
Wayback capital (cityscape)

>>2358918
>>2358940
They said something about varied biomes on the existing planets too

I just want to see the Rakkarians.

They're mentioned by multiple characters (e.g. the pirates going "I've got the aim of a Rakkarian!") but they're nowhere in the game.

Bugs should have the same ability to intrude on battles as the MENACE does.
I want to see pirates vs bugs, menace vs bugs, etc.

>>2357689
Maybe if they had better aim they wouldn't end up in the can

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>Giganigga can hipfire a fucking ATGM or autocannon

Who thought this was a good idea

>>2359005
He was pretty mediocre before. Darkie still outperforms him.

>>2359005
Retarded but at least it makes him more competitive with S-rank SLs. Why'd they make the currynigger so OP. fucking gay

>>2357511
What is the most useless perk in the game?
I think it has to be Wetteroth's 'This Is A Knife'. 30 AP for a shitty melee attack on a character with dogshit AP and close quarters survivability.

>>2359010
It's just a joke.

>>2359010
>'This Is A Knife'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_JBkqLmHns

How come no one else use scavenger Darky? She gives the team extra drones, C4, ammo and so on, it's great utility. It's much more useful on her than on Jean because she can actually reliably kill things.

>>2359028
I use scavenger on darkie.

>>2359028
for what purpose

5pts for magazines is cheaper than 15 points for the perk
and even 16 shots is already more than enough for 95% of missions. if you suck at the game and it takes 2 attacks to kill an infantry squad that's still 8 kills
and if you do run out of ammo she's still an effective scout

it's just a really pointless perk in the first place but especially pointless on derpy unless you're doing some non optimal derpy build on purpose

>>2359031
Scav is a good trait if you need lots of RPG's on somebody.

>>2359028
I don't use Darky at all.

>>2359028
i don't run scav on anyone

>>2359031
Why did you decide to ignore suicide drone and explosive charge examples just to focus on rifle ammo? Yes, you can dispatch infantry for cheap. Infantry is the least of your issues most of the time. Scavenger is useful when the enemy sends bombardiers at you non-stop and you're running out of drones to snipe them with. Also, it's not for Darby herself. She picks off targets near the other squads, giving extra equipment use to anyone who needs it.

What I wanna know is what they're gonna do with the Jingwei. They're clearly setting up a conflict with them when Zama breaks off co-operation after accusing them of creating the MENACE and outright tells them he believes the Impetus can be hunted down and destroyed. How are they gonna be any different to the RA?

>>2359067
Aren't the Jingwei just the random niggas guarding places alongside your forces?

>>2359069
They're Zama's government of the entire wayback, they're the force the Rogue Army defected from. In their intro cutscene, he even calls them "some of his forces" or something similar, so the Jingwei themselves are most likely the RA but fucktoupled in size and resources.

>>2359060
she doesn't need any of that

you don't even need infantry, basically the only point to infantry in this game is to scout for vehicles

so if you are playing properly that's all darby is doing
giving her c4 is ? you're gonna run up and plant c4 on infantry instead of shooting?
rpg ? just. shoot with apc if you gotta kill a vehicle

if its infantry well she'll kill them with a rifle doesn't need anything else no rpg no c4 no machinegun no sniper rifle

her most important accessories are binoculars and cloak

if you wanna play less optimal than why even care to argue, just use whatever it's not like the AI is going to beat you

>>2359076
the drone is pretty good tho

>>2359074
I would like it if the rogue army was skewed towards elite troops, specialists, and walker pilots whereas the jingwei is a mass of conscripts with some heavy hardware
that way they would be distinct as well as giving some credence to their claims of being true waybackers etc because they are veterans disillusioned by the leadership

it would also be cool if each of the planets/factions had some character to their specific jingwei as well as unique gear

>>2359076
Not that anon but you're a fucking moron, giving darby the drone, you're using darby to kill units to drop supplies so that marta can just keep spamming drones.

>>2359076
>basically the only point to infantry in this game is to scout for vehicles
infantry is only twice as cost effective as vehicles

So to be clear about ammo types
Match: Better than regular ammo in every way
Rend: Dogshit, armor is stripped easily enough anyways
Hollowpoint: Must-have on everything except maybe the heavy assault rifle or shotguns
Armor piercing: Not ideal but makes shotguns into railguns

>>2359100
that's completely wrong

>>2359096
darby doesn't need drone, use your vehicle to kill vehicles, that's what it excels at, it also excels at killing infantry
and also at moving across the battlefield rapidly
and also at surviving attacks
and actually also at scouting if you bring an ATV or truck with the radar

If you're using infantry you're basically playing the game wrong

>getting suppressed
>running out of ammo
>paying absurd supply for protection
>expensive but also weaker guns
>losing soldiers every time you're shot at

>>2359101
Match isn't worth it unless you really need accuracy or range (you dont), it's the most expensive but nearly as useless as rend

It could be good if the 3 corporate factions gave options of gear as rewards rather than OCI things.
A selection of gear, that when chosen is added to the market in infinite quantity.

>>2359104
You're very confidently wrong.

>>2359112
Sounds like projection to me, you can't even explain your reasoning, just insult and say "no you"

>>2359104
I am pretty confident that you are wrong.

>>2359116
ok

>>2358940
>Vietnam planet


I am still waiting on Kriegfront tactics but I hope they add a SL that uses traps like Rambo.
I fact I wish there was a option for going prone and firing, they already have the animations when you are pinned down.

>>2359121
modders will fix it

>>2359113
>Sounds like projection
You're the one who inserts some variation of "You're playing the game wrong" into every single reply while not even understanding the basics of dealing with suppression and thinking infantry sucks because it can get suppressed.

>>2359123
It's just a fact, there's a way to play the game the most efficient/optimal way possible and it's vehicles

if you wanna run infantry that's fun too but they are not as powerful as vehicles are

Frankly playing with infantry is more fun, vehicles are just like playing the game godmodded

Infantry vs vehicles is challenging because a squad of infantry that gets melted by a single round of rifle fire, also basically giggles when a blaster bug/ATGM hits them.
While that fancy tank ignores 10 rounds of rifle fire, but also sets on fire and gets it's cannon disabled from a single RPG hit.

>>2359100
lmao

>>2359096
>taking carda just to have her spam drones
are you stupid or something?
>but she can use scavenger to get more drones
Not really when she only has baseline like 85 AP, the drone costs 80 and you need to move to the scavenged target lol. This is a lot of trouble when you can just give Tech an atgm and a target designator and no vehicle in the game even matters anymore. What's with this fucking threads obsession with drones as if there was no other weapons?

>>2359122
Or maybe a bow weapon with grenades?

Maybe 2 or 4 shots from that SL with a bow.

>>2359125
Even with vehicles you need some infantry spotters. RA can fuck you up good even if you have vehicles with good scouting.

>>2359133
The drones are a useful "oh fuck" item, long range and damage is a bit too much they could tone it down. As such since people make mistakes drones feel like a get out of jail item.

>>2359128
It's like a game of rock, paper, scissors.

>>2359133
i reliably get a suicide drone within the first 3 missions
i do not reliable get an atgm within the first 10
the drone is relatively cheap, has long range, and never misses so it can be used by anyone with at least 80 ap
there are absolutely better at weapons but early it's easily your best option and even once you have a medium vehicle rocket, crocodile rifle, or laser lance it still has relevancy as a backup weapon your shitters can carry around

>>2359010

Curiously it works in people hiding in smoke. So yeah. I still like Wett, hes cheap his accuracy is amazing, he can basically be an amazing scout for a fraction of what Darby costs.

With a good DMR he's really useful. I can squeeze him into tons of teams to just scout and take out armoured infantry.

>>2359128
Wow its almost like infantry vs vehicles has a balance. It's all about how the enemy attacks, or lets themselves get attacked before doing harm.

>>2359128
radar means you see all units so never ambushed or surprised and often able to attack stuff you can't otherwise see, which heavily limits how often you get shot with rpgs

1 RPG hit won't do anything if it hits front on the APC besides take off armor, it takes 3-4 to kill a medium mech and enemy infantry only hit like 1/3 of their rockets they fire

The most dangerous thing you'll run into are HQ's and snipers with binocs marking you for ATGM's but you can heavily mitigate that with ERA and the radar
besides the ATGM teams and the menace things I forget their name. there really isn't anything remotely threatening for vehicles. MAybe if they add more anti-tank tanks or mechs or infantry with suicide drones the dynamics will change but right now its a cakewalk with vehicle heavy force

>>2359142
>>2359143
As anon says, slap ERA on your vehicle and you can practically ignore blaster bugs/ATGM's/RPG's.
And lasers only ever chip at long range and are rare anyways.

>>2359010
They need to cover all the bases for mods later. Can you imagine space marines without any melee attack systems whatsoever?

>>2359138
>>2359140
It was a rhetorical question. I don't actually want to see you niggers justify your shit gameplay all over again, while pretending your way is the only optimal way lol

>>2359152
>the autistic nigger who insists that infantry is shit while deliberately refusing to use special weapons is pretending again that his way of playing (on easy mode at that) is optimal

>>2359152
>just always have one of the rarest items bro

>>2359156
You heard the autismo. You will NOT discuss the game unless you play exactly as he does.

Why did no one tell me that a dying laser turret is the deadliest explosion in the game? I lost a medium walker to it and thus [reload autosave].

>>2359167
they dont always explode like that and it can happen with any vehicle also

just have to keep it in mind and alays remember if you are too lazy to move your unit away, that is when it WILL blow up and kill them
never when you take the precautions
only when you think about doing it and then decide not to because you're lazy and arrogant
God punishes hubris

>>2359167
All vehicles have a chance of 'ammo detonation' on kill. Which is a huge AOE explosion. Turrets are vehicles.

It would be cool to have a ammo cook off detonation animation in heavy vehicles, with that fire volcano on the turret.

>>2359167
All turrets/vehicles have a low chance (10-20% in my experience) of exploding which does a lot of damage in a 1 tile radius. Some have unique on-death effects, the flamethrower tank are guaranteed to spew flame in aoe 2 tile aoe around it when destroyed and the rocket truck sometimes shoots a barrage around itself on death

>>2359189
>low 10-20% chance
>every single time I shoot a loaded rocket truck its fireworks

>>2359200
Maybe it is related to whether or not the truck is loaded? I don't know, it makes more of an impact on memory when something flashy happens vs when they keel over

>>2359210
>>2359200
i think rocket trucks explode in fireworks when they are loaded but the big 3x3 explosion heavy trucks do is just rng
>source my ass

>>2359200
I think fire trucks seem to have more chance to start cumming rockets.
The other vehicles its random.

Didn't really find the menace all that menacing, tbqhwym.

>>2359263
wet fart enemy and the reveal was cringe as fuck dialogue
felt like the tone of the game suddenly shifted into marvel capeshit

>>2359263
The fact that they can be suppressed like regular infantry and it's easy to do is what kills them for me. It doesn't matter that they have hundreds of hp and decent armor when they never get to play.
The only 2 units that command any respect from their roster are Guncrawlers, since they aren't affected by overload and Skirmishers because they can just nuke your vehicles from an absurd range.

>>2359329
>Skirmishers because they can just nuke your vehicles from an absurd range
Don't worry, they also have insane vision range and can oneshot infantry unless they're wearing tier4 armor

how good are the suicide drones can they one shot pirate hmg trucks?

>>2359384
One shot light trucks, should 2-shot HMG trucks.

>>2359384
they'll apply 1-2 defects to an HMG truck (make sure to hit rear armor) and a severe morale hit but wont kill it
sometimes the trucks will outright flee on the following round anyway

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>>2359092
I would love to see a Jingwei officer SL, a complete tool, total yes man, highly delusional of his own valor and somewhat incompetent yet is surprisingly good at leading and motivating men by threatening to shoot them but can't because the Major won't allow it....yet is allow to flog them

He be like Pike yet gives more AP and morale with some debuffs like accuracy (as it is kind of hard to shoot someone when someone with a big hat is screaming in your ear hole and flogging you with a cane to shoot that boarding pirate team)

Along with some unique barks with other Jingwei SLs demanding they get in front of him when he under fire, hes important after all

>>2359403
Basically the commissar from dawn of war 1. Kill one squadie for a one time double AP bonus.

>>2359384
Their benefit is that they're super reliable and cannot miss. drones are great. Their down side is that its 40ap to deploy the drone, and then a further 40ap to either move it, or guide into a target.

If you see one early game its a great way to kill xeno bombadiers hiding behind buildings.

>>2359104
+1 range with 0 drawbacks is universally good on almost anything, lets crowbars hit from huge distances, can shore up SMG low ranges. AP is also pretty strong on the basic smg. I've tried rend on ARCs and was pretty disappointed, It makes them very effective at stripping initial armor but tends to struggle at the rest. I think it would be better if the AP reduction was slightly lowered.

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Hey there’s actually a skybox.

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>>2359463
My god... It's full of clouds...

>>2359467
I legit thought there was no skybox. But the mod unlocks free cam and by the looks of it, there’s stuff in the game probably going to be used for free cam and cinematic view of stuff like firing.

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>>2359463
>>2359467
>MAJOR THERE CLOUDS ABOVE US!

>>2359485
ZERO DAGGER

>>2359462
i had success with rend on shotguns

>create mod for laser turret to give it more AP, more range, more "uses" to its laser attack skill (didn't seem to work), faster repetition so that its turns do not take forever
>it even has a different prior mod increasing its armor and HP
>starts exploding from a single conscript rifle bullet
What in tarnation

Just hit the content wall in 24 hours on normal, having only unlocked just 12 SLs. Very anticlimatic.
Should I continue snowballing and see how OP I can get, or start over right away on higher difficulty?

>>2359156
>he thinks I'm the same guy
This game again is it?
>>2359163
That's funny cuz we had 400 posts of that last thread, also about you retards saying wardog drones was the only way to play right

>>2359263
I think nothing in this game is ever going to really feel as menacing as expert ironman BB because in that game you can lose a really good merc but still continue the run, so there is a sense you can make a bad mistake or get really, really unlucky but the campaign continues. If you lose a SL in Menace you might as well restart the run, it's also pretty easy to just abort a mission before an SL dies if you're fast. The balance was much tighter

>>2359505
>buff laser turret
What in tarnation

>>2359544
3x ap mines is objectively the superiorists weapon loadout

>>2359546
I'd rather 3x laser turrets.

>>2359544
I'm using the mod to remove the timer so they are instant, another mod to increase the uses of each OCI installed, and also made some tweaks to increase the power of the other offensive OCIs. Laser turrets are falling behind in this mod meta.

>>2359076
nigga, she kills soft targets and other infantry specialists pick supplies to refill their shit
its not complicated, stop pretending to be retarded

>>2359536
This, BB wasn't great for losing mercs or battles in general but you could power up through this and there were some(pitiful) mechanics for come back.
Here is just restart mission with how whole system works.

>>2359467
Oh, I guess its that(and grass) that speed up my fans in battles

>>2359546
laser turret is way better against heavies and vehicles and provides a distraction as well as medium cover
mines are also great but i would soon run 2 laser 1 mines since you get 3 mines anyway

>>2359557
Dropping 9 mines in the fog of war and wiping out half the enemy team without ever seeing them is pretty funny though

>>2359463
I thought that when they looked up, they saw you through the screen.

After 105 hours in the game it's gotten boring.
Must be a bad game.

>>2358597
>Menace factions have different units, too
You build single loadout vs RA and then it enough for clear all other factions, there actually no difference between factions gameplay wise.

What if concealment didn't work on bugs because they sense movement or something?

The rest of the world has moved on to Menace and I'm still stuck at Battle Brothers for the near future. How does Menace play with the nitty gritty? Are there perks to build around your army in the sense of a doctrine or is it all based around the individual heroes they showed in the reveals? How does one control space? Are there any neat things like Rotation or Footwork in this game?

>>2359671
Tanks have directional armor so rotating them is important. Mechs have weaker armor but it's spread evenly all around.
Each Squad Leader has a perk list which has some flexibility but for the most part there's an objectively proper perk list for them.
If you don't attack MENACE locations they overtake planets and you lose it forever.

>>2359671
I'm not sure any comparison can really be made to Battle Brothers. Menace isn't anywhere near as brutal.

>>2359689
I dunno, I find that menace can be devastating on ironman, one atgm and suddenly you're losing two squads, and sure you can abort the mission and operation, but now two of your squads are injured for the next op. It can be absolutely punishing early on.

But I would also say that death and comebacks are more common and more possible in battle brothers.

But considering the road map I figure there'll be a lore more expanded upon and some systems might even change entirely and are just placeholders to make the game work in early access.

>>2359546

I actually tried 3 missile strikes and the coverage i enough for quite some damage especially when the enemy sticks to cover.

>>2359671
It's very different from BB, its not BB at all, it's more like a mix of classic autobattlers and fire emblemwith some other tactics game sprinkled on.

BB works better as an ironmeme game.

>>2359671
menace is not finished

None of the MENACE units are remotely dangerous with the exception of skirmishers. Those are in turn in the absolute bullshit category. How do you deal with them? I hate pussyfooting around engaging construct groups, but they force me to play in a tediously cautious way.

>>2359841
I'm experimenting with engaging with the Menace agressively, so to protect myself against skirmishers I'll have a scout near the unit I actually want to engage so I can see any possible skirmishers beyond it. If there is one I pop smoke so that way the skirmisher cant snipe an entire squad while dealing with shitty drones. Smoke mortar on tek is my goto to keep things moving, otherwise you have to overload shit target, scout beyond, move up & smoke, then finally move up & kill. Get enough intel so you know where they are beforehand too.

>>2359853
Yeah it's kind of what I've been doing too. Scout, smoke mortar, move up, wipe trash drones, smoke again, repeat. It's what I've meant by tedious.

>>2359671
Its mix of Fire Emblem with nuCom, very disappointing

>>2359841
That is because AI is neutered. Bored Commandos could absolutely wreck most my infantry teams, they just don't, same for Hvy trucks

>>2359865
Ya it's tedious :( more fun than range plinking tho.

>>2359695
>one atgm and suddenly you're losing two squads
So just reload and replay, it's 5-20 minutes of time lost and the game doesn't make it fun to keep playing with losses, no reason not to do it

>>2359900
>just savescum bro
nigga, this makes any games where you have to evaluate losses trivial
but i've no doubt your time is worthless tho

>>2359901
Design your game better then

>>2359900
any discussion on balance or tactics is invalidated by save scumming.

>>2359910
I'm not discussing balance or tactics

If you don't want players to savescum then 'losing' at the game has to be fun
That is not the case in this game, and it's also relatively painless and easy to savescum, so that's what everyone is going to do. You've invalidated your own attempt at making the game challenging by being retarded and arrogant about everything.

Looking at the final roster the game will have enough SLs to sometimes just leave one dead. Speaking of Fire Emblem it was exactly the same thing you could just fucking let a character die. Game goes on.

The game is not even trying to be nucom in any way.

>>2359917
>Looking at the final roster the game will have enough SLs to sometimes just leave one dead.
Nobody is going to do that unless a niche of a type of player

Everyone else correctly makes this assessment:
>I just lost a squad leader that does things no other squad leader can do
>If I reload now it will take me 5 minutes to undo that and I get to have fun replaying the mission
>If I don't reload I go the rest of my playtime not being able to use a fun squad leader
>*reloads save*

>>2359920

So like every game ever made.

>>2359921
No, not like every game ever made. There are plenty of games which are fun to 'lose' at; dwarf fortress for example.

This is because setbacks aren't so pervasive and detrimental that you don't want to continue playing with them.

This is like watching an adult trying to explain common sense to children.

>>2359914
There some incredible gripping fights I’ve already had in this game, defence missions and what not, sometimes with sub par equipment and losing was pretty fun.

>>2359920
>>2359923
Holy fuck, just play the game how you want to play it. You are insufferably retarded.

>>2359926
Be less arrogant; learn to understand how people actually play games instead of being mad that they don't play the way you want or expect them to.

Your mindset doesn't let you make good decisions.

>>2359923
>dwarf fortress for example
this nigga unironically brought up tranny fortress as an argument
dilate and rope

>>2359930
Except you're the one telling people to savescum if they lost a SL. You're the one telling people how to play and being mad that the game has no stakes (while save scumming).

You're making your own problems.

If you want to savescum then save scum, I don't care, but then don't complain that the game is making you save scum.

>>2359943
I'm not telling people to do anything, I'm telling you what people will choose to do, and you don't want to understand it. You are doing your best, contorting yourself into a pretzel, to not understand it.

If you want to design a game well, you need to take into consideration what players are going to do, and what the vast majority are going to do with an SL dying in this game is immediately reload and start the fight over, because the loss is too big and undoing it too easy.

If you designed the game to lessen the impact - SL's can't die, but losing one means they spend 4 missions out of action, that is more along the lines of a setback a player will tolerate playing through. The simple fact is that the SL's have been made too unique, too narratively interesting (well - presumably), too powerful, and too generally important to accept losing.

>>2359949
>The simple fact is that the SL's have been made too unique, too narratively interesting (well - presumably), too powerful, and too generally important to accept losing.

That's you're own opinion, I've been doing ironman expert runs and i've had to restart from scratch several times since i didn't want to save scum, its actually a lot of fun since I think the early part of the game is more fleshed out than the later stages, perma death is more devastating early on, but i can just restart a run. i don't care about reloading a save.

I think its you're own projection of how you like to play that makes you want to dumb down the game and make it easier just because you can't help yourself from save scumming when things don't go your way. And you think that just because people think like you that by removing features to make the game more palatable to casual audiences will make it better. When has that ever made a game better. People will savescum why appeal to save scummers. If you remove permadeath and only do the 4 mission time out, people will then complain about that too.

I think giving people the choice is always the best option. I mean you have 4 turns to save a downed squad leader, or end the mission anyways before they die. And you have the option to save scum if you think that's too punishing. Is that not fair? I think right now SLs feel more important, but only because its hard to actually replace them. In the finished game they aim to have about double the amount of SLs, possibly more. so individual importance will drop off.

>>2359925
and yet you brick your save potentially by losing sls
the authority cost on expert means they aren't even reasonably easy to replace
unless it's the endgame and you're swimming in resources with spare leaders that is

being able to stabilize downed sls without an item would be a huge step in improving things
needing that accessory is stupid
alternatively make squad members take damage across members so heal items weren't garbage
>>2359914
the game has zero comeback mechanics whatsoever
there aren't even scaling costs on the number of sls, which is a no brainer mechanic to me

anon is correct most people will savescum this situation. the SL system is that they are unique enough you can potentially walk into a bricked game down the line if you dont savescum their losses early. maybe in the future we will get cloning tech or something to offset this, like quasimorph. As it currently is most people will savescum it.


To make the game less sacescummable the SL rescue timer coould be to prevent them having to sit out for example. This puts pressure on trying to revive them, and actually results in a decision if you fail: if it was a hard fight do you accept a debuff for the next few operations to not have to replay it again and risk doing even worse, or do you reload and have to do the whole thing over again.
A similar logic existed in battle brothers since brothers were technically infinite but a valuable brother would be difficult to replace, do you accept the gains from the fight in exchange?

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>>2360047
>being able to stabilize downed sls without an item would be a huge step in improving things
That's already a thing. It's been a thing since the earliest version of the game.

>>2360054
i stood ontop of a downed guy and couldn't do it i guess i am retarded

>>2360067
You mean rescue a downed SL? Its a button that appears down there next to the crouch symbol. Same like when sabotaging stuff.

>>2360071
i swear i looked there
do you need to deploy or something?
maybe i'm just psychotic but either way the other arguments stand

scaling sl authority cost would be a big improvement

>>2358198
This is a very easy to achieve setup, but it's far from optimal.

Due to the nature of hp damage dropoff and crowbar having a rate of fire of 2, time to kill will be too long to complete side objectives. Yes you can complete the missions with no losses, but rushing 3 WOOs completely invalidates the need to do so.
Instead of tank gun I run an ATGM and extra ammo, which allows me to field a mobile infantry squad. Mobile Infantry are extremely efficient and powerful, as they can utilize shorter range guns without the need for armor. Every other infantry that can use mark target does so, allowing my ATGM to destroy vehicles from anywhere on the map.
Darby is the only infantry I use that carries a dedicated antitank support, allowing her to act independently (she just restealths when her turn ends.)

>>2358198
im pretty sure autocanon medium mechs are better than tank gun apc, but maybe with grenade launcher there is a case for this argument

>>2360096
Not him but long tank gun is pretty amazing to delete enemy vehicles and if infantry gets close, the coaxial can flex on them.
Once I got 3 long tank guns I almost never used the other vehicle weapons. The laser is nice but need venting.
Of course ammo is an issue but with bags and belts you can at least bring 2 ammo boxes and 3 item for even more ammo or armor.

The only time long tank gun is not optimal is with lots of enemy infantry and even then the tank gun is nice to remove cover.

>>2360098

Also dont misinterpret I actually like how the tank gun feels right now. Buffs and nerds and the whole OCI overhaul is incoming slowly, EA is a killer, but I hope they dont flatten some weapons. Its nice to have good performance guns.

>>2360098
dual autocanons on medium mechs are really strong though. When you load up on vehicle ammo accessories you can use them to kill every kind of infantry, and every kind of vehicle. If you are in inconvenient positions you can even focus down with two mechs the front of heavy tanks and the armor stripping is effective enough that it kills it in a couple turns

>>2360102

They might have some trouble down the line if facing frontal heavy armor.

Not a big fan of mechs myself, in fact 2 light carriers with long tank guns are great anchor to my infantry. Hell even 3 If I can get a third one, and with IFV you get even more frontal armor.

Even when I bring two rocket arty light mechs to raze the map, I like having a long tank gun defend them. RA can sometimes get a shot in and I have bad experience with mechs. With long tank gun and slow gameplay I can survive some pretty hard expert shit first time no problem no save scum.

>>2360104
the post EA endgame is stupidly easy if you bring 3 dual autocanon mechs loaded down with 3x extra ammo and then just have darby scouting around. This might just be due to how overpowered vehicles can be if you reduce their cost with 3 ai logistics though.

Dual autocanons can strip armor well, particularly if you take the anti armor and anti vehicle perks on everyone you can

I'm still mad about the time a Rogue Army officer tagged my tank and then one of their ATGMs blew it up in one shot.
Bastards.

>Gun with underbarrel launcher
>More expensive than other guns of its tier
>-10 accuracy
>Only shoots a single shot, but ammo doesn't scale with squad size
Wtf is the point of this garbage. The only conceivable use is giving it to a 3 man support team, but even then it's not worth the price.

>>2360130
The Grenadelauncher Assault Rifle is dogshit.
It's worse as a rifle, and grenades are not very useful.
So it sucks both ways.
If it made every squaddie fire a grenade, THEN maybe it could be useful.

>>2360119
well you dont really have tanks, they're just APC's or IFV's but anyway this is why you take ERA.

Surprisngly they don't have any active protection system for vehicles, I guess that'd be too much of an anti-everything defense

>>2360119
Always slap ERA on your vehicles. Always.
Also, the Greek larper literally cannot be 1 hit KO'd even when he's in a shitbox with no armor.

reminder that in battle brothers some weapons mainly existed only to arm the fodder you killed. Asking for every weapon in the game to actually be something you would want to use would perhaps make enemies too strong

>>2360154
all the generic rifles are viable
the underbarrel grenade launcher is not used by enemies it just sucks ass

>>2360165
Grenades are due for a total rework, as is any weapon that uses them.

>>2360206
Well, whatever the rework is, I hope it actually changes them up big, instead of just making them more killy or less killy or more suppressive or whatever.

Has anyone ever used flashbangs?

>>2360236
They're useful early game to stun lock Bug Queens or something that you can't kill reliably in one turn

>>2360238
Like the organic version of EMPs, then. That's okay. Early game I had to use an EMP rifle to lock down a Rogue Army tank. Even my biggest guns at the time could barely dent it.

>>2360130
And the best part? The -10 accuracy hit is applied to the granade part, too. The granade launcher special weapon that serves identical role has a +35 accuracy bonus inately and even then it's hardly ever useful.

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Fuck the grenade launcher, give me bayonets.

>>2360270
Based speed and violence aficionado

>>2360264
nah the accessory isn't bad at all, especially on shitty sls
it falls off fast as more armored units come into play but it ignores cover and will kills 3-4 scavs/conscripts making them flee and probably pinned too
the rifle variant is trash because it makes normal firing really bad and still costs way more

>>2358548
You can get the Fixer OCI from Dice of the Gods. Just build reputation with Best Girl Frankie.

>>2358548
>Why is a barter economy even working on anything lower than 66% trade-in as the rock bottom?
Because it's a videogame not real life. You already buy weapons farily quickly if you change the values in your favor you basically skip straight to lategame godmode.

I don't think grenades are as bad as people say, the fact that they need accuracy to hit is one reason why I think people have negative experiences with them since they get them early, put them on a shit sl and then miss and think they're useless. But I think there are some good parts of grenades.
Anti tank grenades are more reliable at doing damage to armored enemies (boarding commandos, alien warriors, menace soldiers, light walkers) than any basic squad arm, their inherit short range can be helped with perks, same with accuracy and ap usage buffs.
The Next part of grenades that make them really useful is that they are indirect, you can fire them over line of sight blocking terrain with the grenade launcher and the automatic grenade launcher. great for forest or buildings. Grenades can be hit or miss but when they hit they can bring a large infantry squad from full health to broken and fleeing. Short ranged grenades can also cover the weakness of longer ranged weapons like the crowbar. The grenade launcher is a special weapon that can be fired without deploying which is good for mobility.

Also smoke grenades can give you a quick panic button that can save you out in the open.

Are there better ways to use an equipment slot? Yes. Are you punished for going into grenades? No.

>>2360497
Also the final point

They don't lose their effectiveness when squadies are killed. since they are tied to the SL, so if you get caught out you still have weapons that can hit harder than a diminished squad.

>>2360497
>Are you punished for going into grenades?
Yes. You waste item slot and supply limit.
Nades and kbar with gl will have sense when every squaddie will use it.

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>>2360270
I think bayonet charge be a decent addition, mainly due to when a battle drags on and you going to have a SL or two run out bullets and special weapon ammo as well and they pretty much going to be standing around doing nothing other than being fodder for mortar strike

Sure it be risky as hell as you order them to charge against a stormtrooper squad for example but it better than standing around with a thumb up their asses

i find, on expert, that early game i just cant afford the accessory slot for a speculative grenade, and late game i have better solutions for everything grenades do anyway.
i started a new run to try alternate strategies so ive been pushing infantry harder and I get more use out of that grenade return throwback thing than grenades themselves. Maybe if grenades cost no ap to throw it would be worth the slot, that would make enemies scary though

>>2360544
I did an expert run on ironman with grenades that got to end of early access. I found that with quick hands and fullsend and techs grenade skill it was a good way to use two special weapon shots and then a grenade.
I also used Lims grenadier ability out of a transport to throw grenades, usually antitank ones, I didn't always take grenades, but when i did it was usually those two, and i found that they were very useful. I also was using a lot of the SAPP operator gear so I didn't need ammunition and I had at least three slots. and I found that I was usually carrying 2 grenades, mainly because you get a lot of grenades as loot while other options aren't on the market yet. I used some grenades on other characters without perks for them, and their short range made them not as useful.

I will admit it was a wierd run since the only top tier armor set i kept getting was the operator armor so I had like 4 sets of it and only soft armor so it made using an accessory slot easier and I decided to lean into grenades to really see what using them felt like.

Do laser turrets have armor normally? Am I going nutty? I just realized that my modded turrets have 0 armor to begin with, though that still doesn't really explain why they instantly detonate on getting shot at by the first bullet despite having 200 HP. It almost seems like some multiplier has gone haywire and is giving it some kind of damage taken increase, or lumping the entire enemy's attack damage into the first shot like no other interaction in the game. It's also like they are halfway between a vehicle and squad leader at the moment, because there was one point where I had direct control over a turret and had to keep ending its turn manually, but that has never happened again.

>>2360569
Yeah they have armour, can't say how much though.

>>2360544
I am trying some iron meme runs in expert and lo and behold, losing primary objectives do not set you back that much. You really dont lose anything except those promotions points and rewards, you go on to another OP. In a long game this might just mean a faction wont be your darling.

Although desu they did say they are revising the entire aspect of OPs and OCIs.

>>2360681
I get this weapon every campaign and I try it out and miss every shot then sell it.

>>2360683
You are using it wrong, Or maybe in the wrong hands. Try Kody with tankbuster and the usual luxury perks like scout and bags and sharpshooter, give him ammo and vanguard. And hell he will single handedly remove all light and medium vehicles alone and scare the shit of heavy’s.

>>2360544
The best proposed solution I've seen is to simply add a dedicated grenade slot for them instead of taking up valuable general accessory slots. Same with sidearms, there is literally no reason to take a handgun over anything else at the moment because they get outcompeted by almost literally every other accessory in the game.

>>2360727
We won't see something like that soon, they are hiring a UI designer to redo the entire UI so we will have to wait months for that sort of change.

>>2360497
The problem with grenades:

They do not do anything I cannot already do at 8 tile range with a kpac. Yes, even those guys in heavy cover, I can just kill them at 8 tiles with a kpac. I have no reason to move to within 3 tiles, suffering all the attrition and damage that will take, just to kill a squad I could have killed from safety.

This is because cover doesn't mean shit. Same as armor doesn't. I'll blow throw anything in heavy armor in heavy cover effortlessly from range instead of some bizarre ninja grenade throwing flanking tactics. If I really have to I'll blast the cover with an RPG before I go into 3 tile range.

Then on top of it, why use grenades at all? If I had SMG's I could kill more effectively at 3 tiles than with grenades, I get 30 hit rolls instead of 1 hit roll, I'll wipe the whole squad instead of maybe killing 2 guys, I'll have 16 turns of ammo instead of 3, and I can shoot stuff further than 3 tiles away too.

Then on top of all that the grenades also eat up my limited accessory slots just to make me a little better at the super close ranges I never go to and would be better off not even taking grenades but SMG's or Shotguns instead.

So it's just comical to even consider grenades. They would have to make cover actually mean something and make grenades not take an accessory slot for them to even see any use at all. Right now grenades could 1-shot enemy squads and I still wouldn't use them. I'm gonna laugh when their rework ends up being something that doesn't actually address the real problems, which are the accessory slots for such a niche weapon, and cover being meaningless, rather than any actual problem with grenade mechanics/performance.

>>2360683
it's goated though
bis at until ra tanks roll around

>>2360746
They could just be an item for the enemy.
A huge part of why you're right about cover is because our SLs are way better than most enemies. Even the shitty squads are still leagues better than most enemies. The best SLs, with 80+ accuracy and sharpshooter, make a joke out of even heavy cover. Enemies, however, barely tickle you in full 3 shield cover without grenades etc.

I would like to see grenades be much more effective against units in bunkers/towers though. It feels wrong that the best way to deal with bunkers is to treat them like a tank.

>>2360754
Grenades bypass cover on those structures so it's like they're in the open

It doesn't change much though, you just don't have enough reason to get that close and bother

Is this board always just pseuds getting mad and arguing with fictional schizos?

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>SAAAR PLEASE TO BE FLANKING NOW THE ENEMY I AM REDEEMING HEAVY FIRE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>2360765
bb and menace attract the biggest faggots on 4chan
they're as annoying as starcraftfags but unlike starcraft, no one ever cared about this game

>>2360765
>>2360773
If you want your dick sucked by sychophants, go to reddit where you infantile retards belong

>>2360746
The only grenades that matter are automatic grenade launchers.
My Carda deletes three enemy teams a turn without caveats and she has something super-silly like 50 shots or something. Turned defense missions into a joke.

>>2360784
Yeah, they're pretty overpowered. Like a 10x improvement in the light slot over the light machinegun on apc's.

One of the mods I've been using gives those grenade launchers to rogue army weapon teams and it's basically a short range mortar that instantly deletes your squads. It should probably require marking for indirect fire (or only be able to fire direct) and only ignore cover partially instead of completely.

>>2360784
>she
imagine ever playing this

>>2360818
Women can be space marines, too!

>>2360818
imagine if this game were western sengoku rance in space instead of whatever the fuck they're actually doing

Now that it had some time is menace worth 19,99 or should I avoid it? Or just pirate it till I get bored?

>>2360836
If its the kind of niche you like I think it's worth it

if you don't typically buy these sorts of games then don't buy it

>>2360583
They are supposed to have 90 all around. I made it so my mod tries to change it, like 91 or 100 to force a change, and ingame it still comes out to zero. Even then it shouldn't be causing the effects I see since with HP set to 200 there are very few weapons that can one shot it, yet it is exploding the moment a rifle bullet touches it.

I think the mod loader is not compiling the turret's replacement data properly in the worst way possible, that is the only conclusion I can come to. Still, I should be able to modify the firing and venting skill separately. Want to make it so that the cadence of fire is 2 shots, 1 vent 1 shot, 1 shot 1 vent, repeat. That should just be an AP cost change and the turret has 90 AP.

>>2360868
100% there's something wrong with the modkit and melonloader ever since the last patch.

I don't know what, but it's definitely broken.

>>2360871
>go to setup modkit to install mods
>it pops up with a list of problems like "can't find game directory"
>doesn't let you set the game directory anywhere
>"download all" button is the only thing you can interact with, no explanation why you want to use that, especially when you already have melonloader installed and already downloaded the modkit, what the fuck is it downloading extra??
>anyway, clicking download all is the only way to progress
>it now closes the program because why the fuck would any of this make a lick of fucking sense
>Now you must re-run the program, you get different screen than before
>It does not tell you where or how to set the game directory
>you click through on everything until you find it tucked away in two different places in the settings and you must set it independently for each one
>no you are still not ready for modding anything lol
>now you must run the game in order to populate the assets for the modkit
>except actually just running the game isn't enough, it doesn't tell you this but you have to run the game and then START A NEW CAMPAIGN
>when you have FINALLY finished this south east asian brained retardo shit, you now finally have the modkit working and can edit files and load mods

I genuinely don't know what the fuck runs through the brains of autistic programmers man
these fucking retards couldn't program a UI or UX to save their lives

>>2360873
The last part is not properly stated and tutorialed but at least it makes sense. The assets aren't loaded and can't be intercepted until you've loaded a game. Too obtuse for anyone not reading the console log and understanding how this works.

>>2360236
It disables counter-attacks, I use flash grenades against pirate boarding commandos. Early game you just don't have enough stopping power to prevent them from getting close.

>>2360818
You're free to leave at any time you dipshit.

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>>2360873
Nah installation is fine. It's just you too retarded.

>>2360914
no you are retarded

>>2360918
But it's not me who can't follow 4 simple steps.

>>2360914
The app does not do that actually

It downloads and installs melonloader even if it's already installed, which overwrites melonloader's previous configuration
It deploys data extractor but this does not immediately pull game data
You are prompted to extract data when you launch the game but the extraction doesn't actually occur until you start a new campaign

if you weren't a retard talking out of your ass without using the modkit you might have realized these things

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>>2360920
Cope as harder as you want retard.

>>2360920
>>2360922
And furthermore, nothing about that checklist you posted contradicts the fact the program tells you to set the game's directory, but then does not give you a way to set the game directory and actually in that screen, only allows you to download missing components (that are in fact, NOT missing).

As the anon said before, you do genuinely have to:
1. Start the modkit
2. Ignore that it tells you to set the game directory as it is impossible to actually set the game directory the first time you run it
3. Click download all
4. Let the program close itself down automatically without it even saying this is what it is going to do
5. Restart the program
6. Now go into the settings in two places to set the game directory

It's not hard, it's retarded. There is a difference, but you are too fucking stupid to get that.

If you've got some older mods it will also tell you that it needs to recompile for the new format, but does not actually gives you any way to perform this action. You are instead expected to close the program and restart it, in order to automatically activate this recompile task. (whether you actually want it to happen or not)

Then, get this, the task is actually bugged. It'll recompile, hang, close the program on you, then try to restart automatically but the program breaks on the second launch and hangs indefinitely until you kill it in task manager.

And on top of that people are reporting problems with compiled .dll's giving buggy results in-game as whatever method is being used to patch things doesn't seem to be working correctly.

The modkit is easy enough to get working, but the process it isn't intuitive and it's buggy as fuck.

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I am again requesting that they add the ability for infantry to ride on the deck of tanks

>>2360924
>the program tells you to set the game's directory, but then does not give you a way to set the game directory and actually in that screen
This absolutely infuriated me when I was installing it. Don't tell me to pick it in the settings when there is no way into the fucking settings.

Oh hey, did they fix it? Was just reading patch notes from a bit back.
>AI no longer flees from undetected player units

How is it?

>>2360948
A lot better than when the game launched.
Still not ideal, but you get way less of the bullshit 'lol whoops what are the odds I stopped 1 tile out of your range!' stuff

>>2360949
I remember anons saying that it was just in my head.
Going insane!

>>2360937
If the squad sitting on the tank has maximum concealment, should it hide the tank?

>>2360948
Not genuinely fixed. An improvement but it'll still runaway.

Needs more comprehensive changes to the AI to really get fixed and I don't think that will happen.

>>2360818
this is one of few games where i have no issues at all with the power rangers cast

>>2360957
It's because they're funny.

>>2360959
I think Jean is too mean to everyone, telling them to shut up on every other quip.

>>2360950
>I remember
Should get that checked out lol

>>2360836
nah. this game have serious problems and it looks like devs dont really know what they to do with them

>>2360948
It still happen.

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>>2357722
>Honestly her face does not look Indian, she looks more like a BR.
nigga pls

>>2360937
I want to be able to transport 6 men in an empty pirate truck

I want to be able to transport 3 men in an atv

I want more transports with varying capacities and weapon load outs. I want more light weapons.

>>2361022
Sir she are brahmin white person.

Wish your squad could still fire out of the back of an open-top APC.

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it is coming

>>2361091
>me: *hits u from behind with an ass-to-grass missile*
>weapon disabled
>engine disabled
>big fire
>fleeing
Pssh nothing personnel, rogue army.

>>2361091
Arent they discarding that model ?

>>2361085
i want this
i want enemies to do it too
just make it cost 60ap

>>2361125
>Arent they discarding that model ?
I think so? they wanted to rework it for the modular weapon system because is older than that, the kicker is the shadow to the left, maybe the new heavy tank? was a teaser pic in the discord. I really hope they keep the stug too though