>CK3 hired a leading Byzantinologist, to create one of the most faithful and content rich implementations of that state in a videogame>EU5 shat out some snark filled Gibbonite nonsense DLC about returning to Rome and reviving Latin and Hellenic paganism>as if pissing off the Patriarch and leaving Constantinople wouldn't get you couped instantly by whoever noble remained in Constantinople>peppered with gems like Greek culture being inherently backwards and despotic compared to Italy, and Athens in 1337 having a larger population than the heartlands of Thessaloniki (???) and Thrace, instead of being a few villages raped by Catalan Company marauders>absolutely zero plausible content as to how that state would evolve in the early modern era outside of anachronistic LARPing>no material on the issue of nationalism, industrialization, colonial exploration in Asia, diplomatic maneuvers with Western Europe and Russia Why is he like this? Did a history student fuck his crush at university? Is he mad we didn't buy Imperator: Rome?
>>2422146Europa Universalis series focus is a time after the fall of constantinople.Due to popular demand, he was compelled to cater to obsessive byzaboos, and pulled the start date back to 1399 in Eu3:IN, ever since byzantium has stuck around as a fan favourite.He likes when eu4 gameplay features historical maritime colonizing empires, european wars of religion, swedish empire, russian empire, ottoman empire, poland-lithuania, he likes pike and shot to napoleonic warfare, hussars and shit.Then fans just ask for more rome stuff. which doesn't gel with his mental image of what Europa Universalis is about.
>>2422146wtfare you talking about byz gets an absurd amount of panderingi hate byzaboo faggots so much
>>2422198guess it's easier to give a bad faith response if you don't actually read the post
>>2422146Because Byzaboos are LARPers who cherrypick everything good about the failed state without even trying to understand why the term byzantine exists
>>2422254Nobody wants to "reconquer the Roman empire" meaning fucking France and England. Romaboo shit and byzaboo shit is different entirely.
>>2422146Byzantium is not Rome. Byzantium was a Greek state. Rome was a Latin state. Gibbon was right and Kaldelis is a coping LARPer. Byzantium stopped being Rome when βασιλεύς Ηράκλειος hellenized the state.You are not Roman. Even if you were your existence of perpetual failure would be an insult to Rome.CETERVM CENSEO CONSTANTINOPOLIM ESSE DELENDAM
>>2422258thats right i want to drive out the infidelsbut that might require conquering france and england at this point
>>2422146Paradox are notoriously bad in the writing department (just look at any of the althis HOI4 shit they did), they're more systems, coder guys.But the core idea of having to choose between a Greek national identity or a Roman imperial one is likely a dilemma Byzantium would have had to deal with in the modern age, especially reduced as it had become.
>>2422258>Romaboo shit and byzaboo shit is different entirely.It really isn't though.
>We will never get a Byzanatium->Greece routeWhy fucking bother
>>2422146>slanders eastern rome>influences your map game developerNothing personnel, kid.
>>2422286>But the core idea of having to choose between a Greek national identity or a Roman imperial one is likely a dilemma Byzantium would have had to deal with in the modern ageIt is not a likely dilemma, as you'll learn from the Ottomans who tried to deal with the "dilemma" of their empire being run by turks but culturally Arab plurality, and it only becoming an issue when they decided they need to tackle this "dilemma".
>>2422292It is. Romeabooism is larping with legions and the city of Rome and Hellenism and "restoring Trajan's borders" and invading Great Britain and such bullshit. The whole concept of "restoring Rome" as a different entity is romeabooism.Byzaboo shit is focusing on the actual Eastern Rome, Greek culture and Orthodox religion, and reasonable expansion of a resurgent empire, Anatolia, some of the Balkans, maybe in the best case scenario the Levant and Egypt.
>>2422508The Empire of Rome comprehended the fairest part of the earth, and the most civilised portion of mankind.
>>2422696>the fairest part of the earthFor me, it's Zhongyuan.
>>2422292Not really. Or rather, its only half-right. Byzaboos do try to claim to be romaboos too, as a set-up for their claims of Byzantium being still Rome.Proper romaboos instead are usually obessed only on ancient pagan Rome, and dismiss anything after Costantine as a decadent christcuck parody of the original romano-greek civilization
>terminally online Byzashits will single-handedly turn around the public opinion on the Fourth CrusadeDisgusting animals. Maybe the people saying that the start date should 1453 were onto something.
>>2422751>public opinion on the Fourth CrusadeWhat do you think that public opinion is right now, exactly?
>>2422777"Crusades were so bad, they attacked fellow Christians". Or some variation of it. Definitely not "Byzashits had it coming".
>>2422146What do you mean? He is giving Byzantoboos what they want. They WANT this cringe alt-history LARP shit.
It's more like a Rome bias, like how Imperator (well, it is in the name) had Latin sea tiles even for Greek nations
>>2422777It epitomizes the Crusades entirely: A poorly led, morally absent exercise in aimless aggression so flimsy in its pretense and bloodthirsty in its intention that it got sidetracked from its objective by the promise of gold, sacked one of the most culturally significant landmarks of the medieval world, looted its treasury and then went home rich instead of accomplishing literally anything in the middle east.Beyond the destruction of irreplaceable monuments and the utter wonton futility of the whole exercise, it directly set the stage for 300 years of muslim aggression in central europe by kicking the crutch out from under the ailing byzantine state and sending it into a death spiral that made it an easy target for the fledgling Ottomans, and thus let Europe's most strategically significant staging ground pass into the hands of an expansionist empire racially and spiritually hostile to western civilization.
>>2422633That just proves my point.
>>2422696I read the whole thing a couple of years ago, good shit.
>>2422197Eu2 had 1419 start date doebeltOnly games that didn't had byz start were 1 and dlcless 3
>>2422751>terminally online Byzashits will single-handedly turn around the public opinion on the rape, looting and destruction of the most important(or the second most important) Christian city and the destruction of the last bulwark against Ottoman incursion into Europe, done by the supposed protectors of Christianity
>>2422948>hire crusaders army that's in tbe neighborhood to help you win back the throne>don't pay them>they collapse your failed state in like three months>"oy vey, why did the evil franks do dis?"
>>2422954>open the door to the Turks just like you opened the gates of Toledo>get cocky>let 'oy vey' slip in a shitpost due to your guilty conscienceMaybe try transferring your sins to another chicken again
>>2422954>hire crusaders army that's in tbe neighborhood to help you win back the throneThis would hold some merit if the actual emperor hired them and not some pissant pretender in some bumblefuck court . But fine, they collapsed the failed state and then proceeded to better that that right?No, they were wiped off the map by a Eastern Roman rump state in about 60 years with their legacy being the sack and rape of Constantinople worse than that of the Turks and a significantly worse situation for Christians in Asia Minor and the Balkans.
>>2422903Erm maybe pay your denbts next time
>>2422878>They WANT this cringe alt-history LARP shitWrong. Literally every single review, forum critique, reddit essay, is about how this is ahistorical 1300 years out of date larping makes no sense.
>>2422981Yes, because it doesn't make sense. Because Paradox has fun with alt-history. It isn't serious, it will never be serious, and no amount of seething about Paradox not taking it seriously will change it. Cope, seethe, mald.
Play EU 4 mod Third Odyssey: Back to the Motherland - full on larp with running away to north america, having new mechanics depending what you decide to bring with you (silk, books, greek fire, venetian shipbuilding etc), creating Janisaries out of indians LOL, reforming orthodoxy or going full pagan LARP. It also has really good mission tree that ofers different endgame paths - full on isolationism and taking both of americas for yourself, creating a world spaning trade empire going full navymaxxing, or returning to europe to kill turks and restore rome
>>2422923How does it prove your point? The Ottomans had a system that worked forever. They decided to try and fix something that wasn't broken and ended up fucking themselves over by doing so. Your point is "it's inevitable that they would go full retard and then have to deal with the consequences".
>>2422954>Handing over europe to muslims is okay actually because I want moneyThis sounds all too familiar.
>>2423002>alt-history.But the alt-history should be>what if East Rome survived the 15th century and into the modern eraYou know, how it would actually handle the era of colonialism, enlightenment, new technology, that shit. Not "what if we larped as legionnaires in 1600 AD"
>>2423030I have played it before, and it's currently being ported to EU5. It will work in EU5 much better because of the pop system as well, the system they used for American natives was really janky.>>2422976Greece has paid denbts actually, right now its debt to GDP ratio has fallen under Italy.
>>2422961>3 months failed state>60 years failed stateAnonymous... your math skills are truly Greek in the modern sense.
>>2422878>He is giving Byzantoboos what they want. They WANT this cringe alt-history LARP shit.Byzaboo hereThis shit is fucking stupid. Do not want.
>>2422948>or the second most importantthird
>>2423069>what if my shitty, unstable state survived, tho?Nah. Trash "what if".
>>2422146>>absolutely zero plausible content as to how that state would evolve in the early modern era outside of anachronistic LARPing>>no material on the issue of nationalism, industrialization, colonial exploration in Asia, diplomatic maneuvers with Western Europe and RussiaYeah because it's not fucking plausible you retard"durr what if the byz manifested gorillions of tons of gold and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and killed all da turks!!" that wouldn't fucking happen and it didn't happen in actual history either, there's no way to guess or reason a path for the Byzantines because there is no thing as a "path" for them, by the start date they were a bunch of bandits squatting in a few towns and collecting tax while waiting for somebody to destroy them.
>>2422959>>open the door to the Turks just like you opened the gates of ToledoYeah it's not like it was the Byzantines who married their fucking princesses off to the Turks and gave them their first piece of land on Europe proper for FREE or anything.
>>2422267"Latin" Rome was heavily hellenized by the time of its peak. Romans pretty much adopted Greek religions, culture, myths, music, language/terms and a lot of the tech too. Later Western Europe hateboner for the Eastern Romans were fueled by jealousy and rivalry against the Orthodox Church. The fact remains that the Eastern Romans survived another 977 years after Rome fell to...the Germanic ancestors of the very same people malding about the Eastern Romans.
>>2423037But enough about the low, low price of Çimpe
>>2423525Greeks in 750AUC (3 BC for all you kike on a stick worshippers) =/= Greeks in the Byzantine period.The Greeks used to be cool, used to have their own culture, myths, and traditions, then they joined a Semitic death cult and lost it all.
>>2423530Bro is larping so hard he leaves intelligent discussion.
>>2423533Greeks openly hated their heritage during the Byzantine period. The term Έλληνες was a slur during this period.It's incorrect to say the Greek culture the Romans adopted was the same Greek culture in the Byzantine period. The Greeks openly despised it. They, like troons, considered it deadnaming them.But you already know all of this, you just perform mental gymnastics to convince yourself it isn't the case.
>>2423539Schitzo spotted
>>2423543Retard spotted.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Greeks#Hellene_comes_to_mean_"pagan"If you don't know anything about this topic then you shouldn't be discussing it.
>>2423525>t. Michaelos poopdupolosYou will never be roman, byzantranny. Your rump state never held the glory of Rome under Augustus or Marcus.
>>2423530>Greeks in 750AUCRemind me which city that references again?
>>2423570>You will never be roman, byzantranny. Your rump state never held the glory of Rome under Augustus or Marcus.Go ahead and find the Western Roman Empire on this map, if you'd please
>>2423580Right here.
>>2423591The Longbards pillaged and dismantled the Roman city centres and infrastructure in Italy the Goths had tried to preserve.They are the Dark Age manifest.
>>2423615Wrong. That was the greekoids stripping down all the churches and public works in Italy to fund their war with the Arabs. Stop slurping up oriental propaganda.
>>2423539Έλληνες in the 'όλης
>According to Byzantine apocalyptic tradition (as per Pseudo-Methodius), when the empire reached its absolute darkest hour and was on the brink of total destruction by its enemies (historically framed as the "sons of Ishmael" or the Turks), a miraculous event would occur.>The Awakening: A legendary, divinely chosen Roman Emperor (often described as sleeping, dead, or in hiding) would be awakened or sent by God.>The Global Conquest: This emperor would rise up, utterly crush the enemies of Christianity, and liberate Constantinople and Jerusalem.>Universal Rule: He would establish a golden age of peace (Pax Christiana) and rule over all of mankind for a thousand years from his seat of power in Constantinople. Under his reign, all nations would convert to Christianity, fulfilling the idea of a universal Roman empire, before the coming of the Antichrist and the end times.
>>2423647>saarGPTByzantium really makes the worst posters possible seethe, and that's great.
>>2423548>If you don't know anything about this topic then you shouldn't be discussing it.Is that directed towards yourself? That was a religious term that you are conflating with ethnic self identification.Read that page you linked.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Greeks#Hellenic_continuity_and_Byzantine_consciousness
>>2423548After reading said article we can conclude one, you didnt read the article. Two, it doesnt back up your arguement. And finally three you tried using wikipedia as a source in 2026, a thing elementry school children are tole not to do.
>>2423615>byzantines>not barbaricYou're talking about the same greekoids that routinely blinded adversaries and cut the genitals of children to make them sing better. But they're heckin civilized because it fulfills your christcuck larp
>See threadIt's literally a direct continuation of the Roman Empire after the western part fell.
>>2423647This is what byzaboos really believe and force johan to add into every game even hoi4.
>>2423878>not roman, based in byzantium>don't follow roman pantheon, adopt levantine desert cult>decadent and wasteful>constant scheming that achieved nothing but weakening themselves while the civil wars of true Rome strengthened it i.e, sulla, Caesar and Augustus >weak legal and justice system, be cause for the term byzantine bureaucracy while Rome is famed for it's legal frameworkBy your asinine logic, the ottomans were roman too
>>2423898>not roman, based in byzantiumSince the crisis of the third century many emperors have not even set foot in Rome, preferring cities closer to the frontiers. That changed with Constantine when he founded a city on old Greek town of Byzantion called New Rome. Greeks have been a part of Rome for centuries and regarded as proper Roman citizens ever since. They are the only legitimate continuation of Rome ever since the western half fell, and have been regarded as such until the formation of the Unholy German Confederation, at which point the slander and historical revisionism regarding Eastern Roman identity started being spread.>don't follow roman pantheon, adopt levantine desert cultSeethe about Christianity as much as you want, but it and Constantine are the reason unified empire lasted as long as it did.>decadent and wastefulJust like the unified empire and many of it's emperors.>constant scheming that achieved nothing but weakening themselves while the civil wars of true Rome strengthened it i.e, sulla, Caesar and AugustusEverything following Tiberius only weakened the empire or tried to desperately hold it together. Yet you would still call crisis of the third century empire a Roman one. Also Sulla set in motion things events that led to the downfall of the republic, Caesar killed it properly. Augustus shaped Rome into something else entirely from what Rome was, yet we still call it Rome because a state can evolve. >By your asinine logic, the ottomans were roman tooOttomans were foreign conquerors with no ties to anything Roman. No continuity, no shared culture, no religious connection. Once they conquered Constantinople, they tried to larp as Rome because muh right of conquest but that title meant nothing . Other larper states at least had a veneer of legitimacy. Like HRE having the Pope's "legitimacy", at least until Donation of Constantine was proven as fake. Or Russia having a dynastic and religious connection.
>>2423898>By your asinine logic, the ottomans were roman tooWow look at you reaching the correct conclusion all by yourself. Attaboy!
>>2423525>Romans pretty much adopted Greek religions, culture, myths, music, language/terms and a lot of the tech too.Go back to plebbit, historylet
>>2423925>tplmao
>>2423530Ah so you are a neo-pagan larper. Tells me all I need to know.Julian was a shit emperor and Constantine stands with Augustus as the greatest emperors Rome ever had.
>>2422146Yeah it's pretty shit, you can tell he has an antiquity fetish and just wanted toga Rome again. But mods will fix it as always.https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3604070407>>2423530>The Greeks used to be cool, used to have their own culture, myths, and traditions, then they joined a Semitic death cult and lost it all.Moron. There was an unbroken sense of national identity and cultural continuity from the classical to Hellenistic to medieval Greek word. Even the term Hellen that had come to disuse because of pagan association had been revived by then outside of intellectuals like Anna Komnene.
>>2423996*was not exclusive to these intellectual circles
>>2423925>They are the only legitimate continuation of Rome ever since the western half fell, and have been regarded as such until the formation of the Unholy German Confederation, at which point the slander and historical revisionism regarding Eastern Roman identity started being spread.Legit ignorant idiotAnswer me this, fag, why did Anastasius send Theodoric the Great the Western imperial regalia?
>>2423530>The Greeks used to be cool, used to have their own culture, myths, and traditionsThey had been abandoning these in favour of monotheistic cults long before they ever ultimately decided on Christianity, completely of their own volition. Greek and Latin morality had shifted; they viewed the gods as abhorrent tyrants, rejected the traditions created to serve them, and Greek intellectuals decided that paganism was nonsensical, preferring either outright atheism or monotheism to explain the universe. Greeks and Romans didn't just decide to flip directly from pagan to Christian one day, the religion had already greatly declined, and there was a spiritual vacuum to be filled. Their pagan beliefs were dying regardless of what happened, or what would replace them.
I fucking hate byzaboos. Byzantium was not Rome. It was closer to the shitty Greek kingdoms that the true Romans bulldozed in their time.
Asserting that the Byzantine Empire was somehow not roman because of, let me check my notes, "shit that the Roman Empire started doing on its own" is just asinine.That said, I am sick of Romeslop and I would much rather larp as its destroyers.
>>2424146>and I would much rather larp as the Romans.
How mad do you think Byzantroons are that if you say "Roman" to 99% of the general public they will think of the picture on the left instead of the picture on the right?YWNBAR
>>2424146>somehow not roman because of, let me check my notes, "shit that the Roman Empire started doing on its own"Yes, Rome stopped being Roman some time before it fell. Rome was a republic of a warrior people built on rugged peasant values. Late Rome was a despotic multiculti shithole following all sorts of eastern degeneracy. Rome stopped being a thing when everyone and their mother got Roman citizenship and barbarians got to be senators and generals. Byzantines took nothing from the greatness of Rome, only the constant wars of succession and the overgrown bureaucracy of the late empire.
>>2424469>Rome stopped being a thing when everyone and their mother got Roman citizenship and barbarians got to be senators and generals.>rome stopped being rome in 212This is the first time I see someone claim, without a shred of irony that Galianus Aurelian, Diocletian and Constantine aren't Romans or Roman emperors.
>>2423878she was a slut for Frankish cock in real life
>>2422267Brutal but necessary TRVKE
>>2424474that's the result of amerimutts attempting to comment on history
byzantium > romelatins are overrated
>>2423661>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Greeks#Hellenic_continuity_and_Byzantine_consciousnessThe source for this is literally 'I said so' from a nationalist revisionist. Constantine VII's work is mentioned, he also writes his confusion about people calling themselves Hellenes because in his mind, they are descendants of the ancient Romans and therefore cannot be Hellenes. He even refers to Latin as an ancestral language in comparison to the greater use of Greek. A later writer like Attaleiates outright states ancient Roman ancestry and looks to the Roman past to give lessons for his day. The idea that the Byzantines only used Roman as some legal distinction is absurd and can only be the product of somebody who has never actually read what they actually wrote. Direct attributions to a Greek ancestry only appear in the 13th century in the elite, and don't until the 18th century among the masses.
>>2424474A nation is nothing other than its people. Rome can only be a state that is run by the Romans for the Romans. A state run by Germanics or inhabited primarily by Germanics is not Rome or a successor to Rome. A state run by Greeks is not Rome nor a successor to Rome. A state run by Russians is neither Rome nor a successor to Rome. Saying Byzantium is a continuation of Rome because of some bureaucratic or dynastic nonsense is claiming Jamal is British because a piece of paper you call a passport says so.
I like RomeI also like ByzantiumIt's not that hard
I love how 90 posts in, the actual topic of the OP isn't addressed.Whether you're a romaboo, byzaboo, like the HRE, hate the HRE, think the Greek half of Rome wasn't Roman, if Christianity killed Rome or not etc. all of them agree that the direction Paradox took for that "alt history" DLC makes no sense and just pisses off everyone.
>>2424586>implyingI haven't touched Paraslop since CK2 and I have no idea what's even in said DLC. I'm just here for the /his/ shitposting.
>>2423925>a cult based around a random kike on a stick was more stable than one based on the central figure of the empire
>>2423898>decadent and wastefulSounds Roman
>>2424586My only issue is calling the Orthodox, Greek state centered in Constantinople. It's obvious from your post you think they should be called Romans, but I refuse to use their troon name. The literal only connection they had to Rome, unbroken succession, isn't even true post 1204.Byzantium was a ship of theseus thst changed every single part, THEN SUNK, and you still want me to call the new ship that replaced the old ship (that didn't even have one original part) Rome.I won't do it. Can they be admired as a Greek empire? Yes of course. Kataphraktoi were cool. The beacon system to warn of invasions was cool.Were they Roman? No.
>>2424624>they had to Rome, unbroken successionOkay so you admit it. Thanks for playin busta'!
Modern United States can no longer be called the United States because:1) their capital is no longer in philadelphia 2) the people are no longer white
>>2424625Perhaps the Greek sun is too hot, the dancing boys too distracting, or the education system too poor, you seem to have neglected to read that complete sentence.>isn't even true post 1204.
>>2424626>the us was never based around the city of philadelphia>whiter than you, stavros
>>2424624Romanians arent true Romans, I know i cross the name off every map i see and write Dacia in its place.
>>2422146Johan got repeatedly bullied in Tinto Talks before the game released and took zero feedback, what did you expect?
>>2424627>it's not even true for 5% of their history!!!
>>2424637That's retarded, they (largely) aren't Dacian either.
>>2422146>eat slop for pigs>complain when slop for pigs is slopyou've been giving these DLC merchants your money for 16 years now, and all of a sudden you have standards?
Anyone know why my decision to form Norman culture isn't there? I had to roll back 60 years to before Neustria randomly turned into Normandy when the king of France revoked it to see if that was the issue.
>>2424637The difference is no body copes that Romanians are Romans. Most people don't even associate the two things and think the name comes from Roma gypsy.>>2424659>picThe difference is the Franks were an ethnic tribe and that ethnic tribe founded France. In the same way the Qing were a Manchu dynasty, despite 95%+ of their population being Chinese."Rome" was always based on the city of Rome, hence the name. And the people that inhabited that city, Latins.You can make all the cope in the world about Caesar knowing Greek, or the Greek language being well renowned during the time period, but none of that changes the fact that it was not a primarily Greek empire. It was a primarily Latin empire.That is why Emperors like Justinian, who spoke Latin natively, was a legitimate Roman emperor, but after Heraclius, when all laws, customs, religious rights, and people became solely Greek and fully abandoned their Latin heritage they ceased to be Roman.A Roman in 500BC would still recognize a Roman in 100 AD.A Roman in 100AD would not recognize a "Roman" in 700AD.
>>2424725The requirements from the wiki are>at peace (probably what's causing it from the pic)>own the entire duchy>be norse culture>at least one county in the duchy is french>Norman culture doesn't already exist
>>2424752No, that was me rolling back and taking a screenshot, it's not that. The only thing that I can see is that when the King of France took Neustria it became Normandy.
>>2424659>took zero feedbackSounds like he took plenty of feedback.>bully dev>dev bullies back:O
>>2424784Bullying developers is virtuous and honorable.
>>2424810t. can dish it out, but can't take itImagine if Paradox was inhabited by the likes of Hakita.
>>2424469>Rome was a republic of a warrior people built on rugged peasant values.I'll admit, I've never seen someone who wants to larp as the Roman Republic while hating the Empire. Takes all kinds, I guess.
>>2424586>Palaiologos Renaissance>the default "path", reform imperial institutions, survive the Turkish onslaught on your own and eventually retake Greek territories>the Rise of the Zealots>when the Zealots of Thessalonica rise up in 1342 side with them against the Imperial government and export the revolution to Constantinople, empower the Commoners estate, form your very own Peasant's Res Publica and rape the nobility>kneel before Rome>push for unity with the Catholic Church as agreed upon at the Council of Florence, your own population will fucking hate you for being a sellout little bitch who threw the independent Orthodox Church under the bus but you do get a lot of aid from the Catholic world with manpower and money flowing in from the West for selling your soulthat'll be $9.99 + tip
>>2424980>>when the Zealots of Thessalonica rise up in 1342 side with them against the Imperial government and export the revolution to Constantinople, empower the Commoners estate, form your very own Peasant's Res Publica and rape the nobilityvgh...
>>2422146cause they ate giro once and bizarrely their digestion went awry
>>2423647>more schimatic milleniarist nonsense. If they put effort in fighting arabs as much as they dis making random schizo prophecies they might still have a state.
>>2425043You gotta admit it does sound based as fvck however
>>2424837If my internet comment makes you sperg out in your big budget game then you're the retard, I'm afraid.
>>2425828Ah, the ol' classic "I got you to reply, so I win". I'm sure it's real in your mind, but in terms of humiliating someone, a bigger platform is always better. >I'm afraidNot yet you aren't.
>>2424980>boughtering paradox DLC with real money
>>2424887It is becoming increasingly common as "bvsed aryan warrior chud" larping material. It's the same larp that Indian nationalists do about Indo-Aryans except they think they came from India.
the only "fun" alt history pdx has ever made was the teuton holy horde in eu4
>>2426167This one is less "alt history" and more "speculative history"
alt-history is an inherently cursed genre because no matter what you do you will be stuck between the screeching realism niggers declaring any fun concept "unrealistic" and the seething nationalist niggers asking why their particular europoor shithole you couldn't care less about isn't somehow the new Byzantium
>>2422286>But the core idea of having to choose between a Greek national identity or a Roman imperial one is likely a dilemma Byzantium would have had to deal with in the modern ageThey would just do what Russia did and try to say Yes to both, pissing off all their neighbors
>>2426252Correct. Say one of these communist or fascist things, or fuck off.
>>2426252You can very much have both so long as you set up sophisticated simulation mechanics through which you can make the alt-history happen in a plausible manner through emergent gameplay. Issue is Paradox only knows how to railroad you either into rigid historic frameworks or wacky alt-history narratives because they don't know how to do proper simulation and instead rely on event chains and mission trees as a crutch and replacement for actual gamedev.
>>2426334>set up sophisticated simulation mechanics through which you can make the alt-history happen in a plausible manner through emergent gameplaydoes any game actually do this though?
>>2426360Victoria 2 and Crusader Kings 2 tried, kind of. Instead of building on top of that though they decided to abandon the idea and spend the next 15 years making shitty VNs with a strategy layer thrown over the top.
>>2426378>CK2>plausible>emergent gameplay>simulation mechanicsBro will have the whole board laughing.>the two old ass games my potato can actually run were the last good games Paradox madeOkay, buddy.There is nothing fucking "emergent" about Liquoria. The great powers will always be countries that have a big population + provinces that produce both coal and iron, making Steel factories profitable. And the reason it's called LIQUORia in the first place is because Coal is used in a Glass Factory, and Coal + Grains provinces are common as fuck.
>>2426515>steel>profitable>victoria 2this whole thread is a laugh riotThe "industrial" production chain in Victoria 2 didn't exist.Coal and iron made steel, but what the fuck was the point of steel? It could only really build artillery and small arms, which were always globally overproduced.The only consistently profitable factories were liquor, fabric, clothes, and luxury clothes.All the rest of the goods were memes with no demand, OR they were oversupplied by the AI.The single hardest redpill I have to swallow as Liqqy's biggest simp is that the Vic 3 economy is better.
>>2426521>but what the fuck was the point of steel?Machine parts, you dope. Launch the game again, every once in a while to remind yourself. Coal + Steel = Machine Parts. If you secure your supply of Steel and Machine Parts, your factories will always run smooth, as they use Machine parts as building material and upkeep. Automobiles, tanks, planes, small arms, artillery, steamers. They're all going to be profitable.
>>2426515>>2426521>>2426523>the excecution war poor>ergo no attempt was madeI am tired of arguing with retards who read one thing and decide to interpret something else entirely, either wilfully or due to general retardation.
>>2426523Machine parts, I grant you, but automobiles, tanks, planes, small arms, artillery, and steamers were vastly more unreliable than clothes, furniture, liquor, basic goods.The problem was the AI never adapted to new technology, so if you tried to build a big new industry like telephones you would quickly see you were just oversupplying the good, causing them to be unprofitable.>>2426524I wasn't even arguing with you, nigga.Although CK2 didn't even make an attempt to simulate anything, the second you hit unpause the history went out of the window.
>>2426524V3 economy is superior to V2 in almost every respect besides the absence of stockpiles, which would brick your potato, anyway, simple as.
>>2426378Vic2 tries to keep players in the total darkness. Politics, trade and economy are blackboxes for the player to deal with. In-game instructions and explanations, based on johan's perception how the game should work, offer little to no help.Pops can starve to death but the game doesn't do anything to tell you something is very fucking wrong.
>>2426533>the only warning you have that pops are dying is when they start preparing revolts against youmarie antoinette moment
>>2424887You've never seen... history? You've never heard of Scaevola?
only slightly related but the iranian (((protests))) and the new iran war basically gave me a wizard of oz pulling back the curtain moment to me about all the zoroastrian LARP that's popular in CK3 and the rest of the Paradox communityI'm convinced Paradox was paid by Mossad to help drum up support for the iranian monarchy as a larger social media push to undermine the government of iran. I literally can't unsee it now, it's so fucking jewish
>>2427163It's more a reflection of how vapid and unserious the factions you're talking about are. It's the same thing with neopaganism in Europe.In 769 it was only a century since Islam conquered Persia. In CK3 I do agree that religion is currently a bit of a joke, it's too much something the solipsistic idea of a player character can control directly.>>2426275that quote is annoyingly smug over a trite statement meant to imply more than it simply asserts>DAE chuds live in fantasy land where england and communism didn't deserve to win?
>>2427315>deserveCouldn't. Germany could not win ww2.
>>2427618um but nazi germany could have totally won as long as every other country on the planet spontaneously decided to do everything wrong on purpose
>>2427723>um but nazi germany could have totally won as long as every other country on the planet spontaneously decided to do everything wrong on purposeAll it would’ve taken was the UK and the USA to not be controlled by the Jews. Hitler loved the Brits and tried to ally with them so many times. Germany could’ve taken the USSR in a 1v1 with no foreign support. They were pretty fucked after the U.S. entered the war, though.
>>2427738Cool fantasy land, chud. :^)
>>2427738>All it would’ve taken was the UK and the USA to not be controlled by the Jews.So it was impossible for them to win world war 2.>Hitler loved the Brits and tried to ally with them so many times.Did you ever consider that the brits might not be terribly fond of him and that this would be the case even without Jews?>Germany could’ve taken the USSR in a 1v1 with no foreign support.Germany literally couldn't even reach the USSR without occupying Poland and they couldn't take on anything without occupying the Czechs and they sure as fuck wouldn't do anything without also occupying France.
>>2427738>Germany could’ve taken the USSR in a 1v1 with no foreign support.Germany had more than half of Europe under it's thumb and supporting the invasion, caught the Soviet army in a transitionary period when Soviet high command and officer corps were filled with drooling retards. They obliterated multiple armies in their entirety, killed or captured millions of soldiers, took two of the four major cities and had a third under siege and took stupid amounts of territory. And they still couldn't win even when they rolled a natural 20. War was decided when Barbarossa failed and they got pushed away from Moscow.Essentially, what the Germans predicted in 1914 about Russian industrialization came true and they never could have won a total war, outside of maybe Stalin being a dumbass and surrendering for some reason, but even then he would probably only sign his death warrant and get replaced by someone who would continue the war.
>>2428048>Germany had more than half of EuropeBecause France has plentiful of natural resources needed to sustain the war effort, right? I suppose holding Crench provinces just gives them a natural multiplier to monthly manpower generation. That's how real life works after all.>caught the Soviet army in a transitionary period when Soviet high command and officer corps were filled with drooling retards. They obliterated multiple armies in their entirety, killed or captured millions of soldiers, took two of the four major cities and had a third under siege and took stupid amounts of territoryLiterally none of this matters when your enemy's entire war effort is subsidised by a nation that shits out more warships in a year than the entire rest of the world combined in a century. Why would losing territory matter when the US can just inport more food, small arms and materials than the territories you just lost could ever provide you?
>>2428082>Because France has plentiful of natural resources needed to sustain the war effort, rightDo you think Nazi Germany had a barter economy? They needed industry to produce shit, gold to pay for shit, and people to hold the weapons to shoot at shit. Without occupying half the continent they didn't have enough of that to invade the USSR. >Literally none of this matters when your enemy's entire war effort is subsidised by a nation that shits out more warships in a year than the entire rest of the world combined in a centuryCorrect. The Germans never could have won the war. That's the point. This fantasy that they would have won a 1 vs 1 is equally laughable though even ignoring the fact there is a country in the way. The war was basically over by the time America got involved.
>>2428085>and people to hold the weapons.The french weren't going to hold the weapons you retard, that's literally the point. France isn't just some collection of video game provinces that gives a manpower boost to your big grey blob. >the restThe whole point anon was making that by itself, Russia was absolutely nothing and would have been easily crushed by Germany, or just about any European state really. The war Germany was waging was one entirely against the US.
>>2428091>The whole point anon was making that by itself, Russia was absolutely nothing and would have been easily crushed by Germany, or just about any European state really. The war Germany was waging was one entirely against the US.US only appeared when the soviets steamrolled Germany, they were scared soviets would take entire europe that's it. They didn't do shit really.
>>2428094Did you miss the>Literally none of this matters when your enemy's entire war effort is subsidised by a nation that shits out more warships in a year than the entire rest of the world combined in a centuryPart, you goddamn shit-for-brains? US involvement didn't start on D-Day. Their boots on the ground stage was conpletely fucking irrelevant to the entire war in comparison to the lend lease without which Russia, its people, and its language wouldn't fucking exist today.
I see I've been a real trend setter on deleting ones posts to fix spelling mistakes so that arguments can happen faster without triple proofreading. Good on you anons
>>2428092>Entire fight was predicated on a quick victory against a opponent that was in every regard stronger than them.>Most of their resources were literally running out, largely rendering any offensives impossible. >Didn't even take Moscow or put the USSR in a position where they HAD to sue for peace.>On top of this the UK was still in the war and actively plotting a invasion.Yeah, it was over before the USA joined. >>2428091>The french weren't going to hold the weapons you retard,They conscripted over a 100000 people. >France isn't just some collection of video game provinces that gives a manpower boost to your big grey blob.Even if true, it still provided industry and money Nazi Germany needed to not collapse in on itself.>The whole point anon was making that by itself, Russia was absolutely nothing and would have been easily crushed by Germany, or just about any European state really.Which is a nonsense argument that was largely disproven by how things actually went. The USSR won before the USA joined.>The war Germany was waging was one entirely against the US.Then, to bring it back to my point, victory was impossible and Germany was always doomed to lose.
>>2428098> US involvement didn't start on D-Day.Even ecenomic support started after the war was basically won for the USSR. At best Germany might have been able to keep their government but get kicked out of the USSR without USA sending them ecenomic support.
>>2428104>The USSR won before the USA joined.Yes.Most wars are won or lost years before they actually end. You could make a pretty genuine case the Battle of Britain doomed Nazi Germany.
noooo america wasn't involved in the war in 1939 when it started bombing german civilian trade ships headed to venezuela to get oil without a formal declaration of war! (Warcrime)russia wonned against germany all by itself! alone! gommunism #1!!!!!Im trans btw
Suck my dick. Choke on it.
Ban india from this website
>>2428111>noooo america wasn't involved in the war in 1939 when it started bombing german civilian trade shipSo the war was lost because they bombed a bunch of trading ships? Wow, paper tiger much. >russia wonned against germany all by itself!Germany didn't fight against Russia all by itself either. And all of this is just avoiding the simple reality of the fact that Germany couldn't have never won against the UK and the USSR either. >you see Germany could have won.>If the fundamental underlying principles of the war at every stage where different.Wow.
>>2428116>I accept your confessionThat Germany collapsed because the USA bombed trading ships? Yes. It was a failed nation and needed foreign trade to keep it going.
>I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin's views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were "discussing freely" among ourselves. He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war. If we had had to fight Nazi Germany one on one, we could not have stood up against Germany's pressure, and we would have lost the war. No one ever discussed this subject officially, and I don't think Stalin left any written evidence of his opinion, but I will state here that several times in conversations with me he noted that these were the actual circumstances. He never made a special point of holding a conversation on the subject, but when we were engaged in some kind of relaxed conversation, going over international questions of the past and present, and when we would return to the subject of the path we had traveled during the war, that is what he said. When I listened to his remarks, I was fully in agreement with him, and today I am even more so.Nikita Khrushchev>russia strik dont need no munitions no steel no food russia beat germany with fighting spirit of tupac alive in leningradSome retarded anon with fetal alcohol syndrome.
>>2428121Most modern historians who have all the facts agree that the USSR could have won in a 1 vs 1 fight as well (Even ignoring how that means literally nothing since they were occupying half the continent). But, again, it's pretty laughable how your argument is:>Germany would have won is if the entire underlying premise of the war was different.Like, I'm sure you are correct. If the commis had won in 1933, mass executed all the Nazi leaders, and then allied with the USSR I'm sure Germany had won.
>>2428124>any nation that needs foreign trade to keep it going is a failed nationSo you admit Nazi Germany failed first.
You've repeatedly defined the soviet union as a failing nation by defining germany as a failing nation over and over (because they, largely, resembled eachother in being reliant on foreign powers, trade, and more) yet you go out of your way to shill that the soviet union is somehow better in every way and that they defeated germany all alone and by themselves and with no help from america because you are a politically compromised brown tranny who believes that cutting your penis off would be somehow justified if you just lived in soviet russia instead of LA where your mental illness (and trump derangement syndrome) is treated as exactly what it is.
>>2428125>most modern historiansTHIS MAGICAL COMMUNIST IS SLAUGHETERING ARMIES OF NAZIS WITHOUT ANY FOOD, WEAPONS OR EQUIPMENT, CLICK HERE NOW TO HEAR REAL TESTIMONIES FROM REAL MODERN HISTORIANS
>>2428127>yet you go out of your way to shill that the soviet union is somehow better in every way and that they defeated germany all alone>All aloneI would love to ask you where you got this idea from that I said this. But since you are obviously completely mental and batshit insane or a troll there is no point.
>>2428128see: >>2428132It's amazing how there is never any reason to give anybody the benefit of the doubt when it comes to World War 2. Yes, they are always Nazis.
>>2423878>>2424479>>2424980How bushy are the Byzanwaifus?
>>2428172>"US only appeared when the soviets steamrolled Germany, they were scared soviets would take entire europe that's it. They didn't do shit really."Not me. Nice try though.>>2428174It's amazing how the world would be a objectively better place if you were dead.
Xhe can't even stand by xer own retarded brown gommunism arguments lmfao
>>2428183Yes.
>I'm not samefagging I just so happened to join into the post chain at the exact same post the "anon I'm defending" just so happened to decide to stop replyingHilarious shit.
unpopular opinion in this shithole but i would like if they made a startdate in 1312
>>2428112Ah... how old is that reference?
>>2422197Paradox should finally make a game that starts at Sulla's Civil War and ends in 476 or 867, so they don't have to force Rome content into every single game.
>>2431329>Paradox should finally make a game that starts at Sulla's Civil War and ends in 476 or 867, so they don't have to force Rome content into every single game.Yeah, what if they made a grand strategy game that was all about Rome, set during classical antiquity? That would be cool.
>>2431331Imperator Rome was a poorly-made map painter. A character-driven game that goes into the depths of republican politics and Rome's shift towards military autocracy would be golden.
>>2423854>christcuck larpThey are christians, paganigger... there is no larp on there
>>2424615Civil wars are already happening on mass and economical collapse despite not being christkikes... so chill a lit bit, /pol troon
>>2432027>on massYour skin is the colour of shit. You look like living, walking excrement. An upright turd.
>>2422146>why hatebonernatural reaction of a germanic to civilization
>>2432024Way to out yourself as an ESL, pablo
>>2422146Is that you OP?
>>2434018>Which is a disgrace and a shame to Paradox Tinto. Where they failed, I will succeed. I will provide the alt-history content we Byzantinophiles so desperately crave.
>>2434018>as you can read in my previous reddit postDo these faggots really
>>2434094>where should I post my long effortpost critique so it can hopefully reach large parts of the playerbase and possibly Paradox>Reddit? Gay.>the forums? Nah.>the schizo far right pepe the frog retard site? now THAT'S my platform
>>2434018>sacked and razed and killed everyone in the city over revenge
