so they just nuked like 95% of their merch sales?cause i mean who the fuck in canada is a phasefagor vtuber fan in general
>>104020009>95%where did you get this number?
>>104020009Maybe Phase shouldn't outsource its merch production to China for its U.S. clients
phasefags voted for this
>>104020009How could Hunter Biden do this to us bros?
>>104020009Time to pander to..... Europe? Canada? I mean chances are vtubers become illegal under Trump, who knows at this point.
>>104020009That's what the phasefags voted for, after all. That's their based MAGA or whatever
>>104020256this has everything to do with phase being based in canada and canada being retarded and eating the 35% tariff because it never gave a shit about its people or industries.
>>104020009i-it's just a phase
>>104020256reading is hard i know, its coming from Canada not China that's why there pausing it.
>>104020408You mad you’re getting deported, Jorge?
>>104020446not really Canada's fault when trumps just tossing random tariffs at us at random. It's the issue is completely isolated to the US's decision making
>>104020538No, I'm mostly annoyed that my merch is delayed indefinitely.
>>104020446This has nothing to do with tariffs. Try reading.
>>104020009Why did Cameltoe Harris do this?
>>104020703De minimis is part of tariffs, retard. They were exceptions on goods of low price. (under 800 dollars)They were the only reason merch was only "sort of affected" instead of being completely fucked.
>>104020703>being this retarded>actually being this retarded
Eat shit americans, lick your orange president ass
>>104020600It is Canada's fault when they decide to act completely delusional and pretend they aren't dependent on the US economy.
>>104021150No shit Canada doesn’t want to be the 51st state, the American empire has been crumbling for years now and it only accelerated its demise once Trump replaced valuable people under his wing with sycophants from a TV network this term. Most of the competent people under his first term left, it’d be a miracle if the GOP can even hold onto their majority by the midterms. Nevermind the next presidency.
Anyone got the tweet of that Phase and MAGA dramafag who said electing trump was good and they should wear it as a badge of honor because they did it to help everyone?
Good lord it's either titty monster or perflat nothing in between
>>104020510It really wouldn't matter that much, since the only two countries not subject to Trump's Calvinball tariffs are Russia and Belarus; and I doubt that a Canadian company would be in any particular hurry to invest in business assets in either country just to circumvent American tariffs, even if shipping a keychain from Vancouver to Vladivostok to Seattle via container ships would cost less than shipping directly from Vancouver to Seattle in a van (or Montreal to New York via Minsk, versus direct shipping)
>>104021150This is the most disturbed thing I've read in a while.And I browse Brownfeet threads.
>>104021450>it’d be a miracle if the GOP can even hold onto their majority by the midterms. Nevermind the next presidency.You're talking about a country where the majority literally doesn't understand what the word "tariff" means and has never thought to look it up.
>>104020009It's okay this will be rolled back because the president died yesterday
>>104020256A good chunk of things are outsourced to China as is IN the US.
>>104021824To be fair, the media is totally controlled by conservatives in America and they have been persistently pushing the lies that tariffs pay for themselves, American jobs will come back because of them and trickle down economics works.
>>104021975>the media is totally controlled by conservatives in AmericaLmao this isn't reddit.
>>104020049i made it up
>>104020446>and canada being retarded and eating the 35% tariffDo you... not know what tariffs are?Canada isn't eating anything
>>104020009if this lasts into next year, things I would expect>PhaseCon paused>they attend more Leaf cons instead>no more throwing money away on cosplays, car wraps, sponsoring industry events>frequent company trips are cut>3d concerts are downsized maybe 1 per year>maybe attend 1 American convention in 2026 (Offkai)and the extreme measure>Gen4 is paused
>>104021975actually it's controlled by the jewish, retard
>>104023050And?
>>104022958Gen 4 won’t be paused because it has basically no overhead. Phasecon absolutely can be at risk depending on where they planned to have it, especially with the issue of getting goods across America currently. It’s that or they jack up the costs of goods to pass the costs onto consumers.
>>104023213>it has basically no overheadthey spent 6 figures alone on the advertising for Euphoria & Kaleido. That was just advertising. Doesn't even consider the cost of songs, fully animated music videos, reimbursement to debutants for what they spent on debuts.Gen4 being shelved might be the first thing they do Sakana is fine leaving new talents sitting there.
>>104023411I would ditch a 4th gen simply because it is just gonna be 4-5 more girls cannibalizing their already overlapped and cannibalized talents
>>104022958>>104023213Phasecon is absolutely on the back burner because of the trump tax hikes and if Fish goes through with it, he'll have a mutiny on his hands because the girls would rather have that money to to 3d concerts and new models.But if Fish really had a brain he'd trad wrangle Pippa to stop her from pandering to the people who voted to fuck the company and his bottom line over and blacklist any election grifters too.
Say if PhaseCon was held in Vancouver or Toronto, would anybody have to pay the 35% tarif? Like Phase wouldn't have to because it is in Canada, and Americans who traveled to Canada for it would they have to pay it how would that work if so?
>leh orange man taxCanada was already a third world shithole before that along with America, the only difference is that one has nukes and the other doesn't
>>104024246they might have to pay tariffs on any merch they take back to america, but they wouldn't have to pay more for attendance because it's a service not a goodcanadians are very unlikely to visit any american-based conventions right now too
>>104024268Calm down Rev
>>104020009Isn't phase more or less NA only
>>104024246only if you declare them or get questioned about the stuff, not sure what the punishment for not declaring it is but like while they might are they really going to try to do much to you over not saying you bought a keychain and like a poster or something. online shipping is easy for them to control but actually physically traveling and buying stuff becomes a game of cat and mouse if they try hard to enforce it over non bulk or expensive purchases
>>104020009trump just killed phase
>>104024533oofa bit cringe, but still, oof
>>104024623sweet karma
>>104020009bring back smuggling
>>104024623mega based. I'll vote for his 3rd term
>>104023050jews pay for the republican seats. republicans use your money to pay for the jews bombs.
>>104020009>>104022958Unless Phase is extra retarded, this isn't meant to last more than a few months at most. The other shippers which announced they'd be pausing shipments to the US did so because of a lack of understanding on how this all would be carried out, and are establishing communication with the US government to better understand how they can handle it. They don't want weird fees or arguments over who has to do what and when and they especially don't want the US getting pissed at them over it. This will be cleared up within months, as pausing shipments to the US will decimate many businesses income very very quickly, especially many Japanese and Canadian companies. They will face enormous internal economic and political pressure to fix it and resume shipments quickly or cause businesses to collapse.I don't know what Phase thinks they can actually do about it though, they're pretty much useless here.
Beginning of the end. A company like phase can't eat these kind of losses. This is the next vshojo. Save this post
>>104024591>not sure what the punishment for not declaring>The penalties for not declaring items at U.S. Customs include the seizure of the undeclared items, a monetary fine (often equal to the value of the goods), and in some cases, potential criminal charges leading to substantial fines and/or imprisonment for up to 5 years. The real problem isn't the tariffs, it's trump revoking the minimis exemption where you could bring in $800 worth of goods into the country for free. So now everything is hit by the trump tax. As mentioned by another anon, this is going to encourage smuggling for everything, but the current regime is just going to counter that by searching everything and everyone who enters the country now.>>104024987Phase and everyone is else is making the right move pausing because it's better to wait to see this settled rather than power through it given how schizo trump is.
>>104024084yes because the ~5 - 10 thousand (being extremely, extremely generous) trump voters which so happened to be phase fans were instrumental to his election and knew full well all this would happen afterwards. Kevin should definitely alienate a large portion of his audience to show them whose boss!
>>104025168Doesn't matter how small when you're causing this much damage. Reap what you sow.
>>104025006They can adjust by not spending beyond their means (starting after Vexpo). There are easy areas to cut costs; Phase throws a lot of cash around because they can (or could). No more buying artist row at Offkai. No more cosplays and carwraps. No more sponsoring vtuber awards. No more sponsoring Offkai. No more company trips unless they are exclusively for work, and if they are for work they only stay the necessary length instead of the typical extending it.The real thing is if talents are no longer making merch money because nobody is making merch money, talents could become unhappy. Unhappy talents means they may say fuck this I can go make more money as an indie. Maybe Phase can remedy this by advance paying out their talents their merch cuts, coming out of Sakana's pocket.
>>104025351>coming out of Sakana's pocket.good luck
>>104025351He should just open warehousing in the US and send the chinese made junk there. That way tariff gets paid before the retarded 3x markup and at a lower rate. Instead he keeps posting this thread crying about it like a gay fish.
>>104025473well he's saving money on boatgirl pulls right now at least
>>104020009>be grifter chuds that suck up MAGA>this happensdeserved
>>104020009If this really is about making us hecking chuds suffer, why not just pass the tariff costs to us? You know the whales are good for it.I'm not even going to bother talking about having industry returning to the US is worth more than cheap merch, that only applies if you have a j o b
>>104025587Who wants to inform him how tariffs actually work?
release the epstein files
Girls are gonna be forced into donothons again
>>104020009Phasefags voted for this
Do Americans, like, not learn what tariffs are when they're schoolkids?
guess just hope he reinstates De minimis exemption. it could happen he has walked back stuff before.
>americans think their vote matterslollmao
>>104025168It’s probably larger than that given the fans Pippa went out of her way to pander to during the time she was close to Metokur and internet blood sports. They created their own hell whether they realized it or not.
>>104025915He was really butthurt he was called TACO, he's going to keep it to spite everyone.
>>104025900Most of them complain that they weren't taught how to cook or do taxes, but we all that shit is taught in home economic classes which are usually mandatory. They're just stupid.
>>104025915Doubt it, his god complex is too strong to let him admit he fucked up. Your best bet is to wait 3 more years and hope people aren't retarded enough to keep him in there.
>Rapidly descending into a thirdie seethe /pol/ threadlmao
>>104026010>all that shit is taught in home economic classes which are usually mandatoryOk boomer.>>104026017Do people not teach you in thirdworldistan that American presidents only get 2 terms?
>>104026017you now remember the tiktok thing where he banned it for a week and then unbanned it and was hailed a hero by zoomers for saving it
>>104025900See>>104021975They were actually told the tariffs would be paid for by the countries they were imposed on by the media.
>>104025810They are the champions of the Fell For It Again Award
>>104026049>American presidents only get 2 terms?Yeah and he's already shown interest in changing that.
>>104026049There is no term limit. Trump proved it wrong. Vance is going to run next term and cede power to Trump.
>>104026049Trump isn’t an average president even by republican standards, he’s going to try a third term unless his health physically stops him. Best case scenario he’s only saying it because he knows it’ll get him media attention, worst case scenario is he’s a megalomaniac that is surrounded by enablers (which he is in his second term, like the people that enabled Biden to run a second time)
Phase will be fine so long as they dont try to keep living like they have been living the last 2 years. Just go back to what you did during 2022 Phase. It was a much better Phase back then.If they keep trying to keep the party going? Then it is big trouble in little corpo.
>>104020446>>104021150Americans have become South Park characters.
>>104026136>>104026154>>104026156>you can get (you)s from thirdies just by stating a basic fact about how the presidency functions>"let me tell you how your country works"
>>104026197Nobody thought he could suspend due process and habeus corpus for illegals but here we are.
>>104026197>"let me tell you how your country works"Average Amerishart
>>104020009
>>104026222>why do these people who are non-citizens not have the rights of citizens?The world may never know.>>104026280Self-awareness: The post.
>>104026319>>104026132meant for
>>104026020KEK
>>104026327
>>104026327>Proving he's not an AmericanBTW for anyone else who doesn't know, due process and Habeus Corpus, applies to everyone on US soil, not just citizens.
>>104026367>>104026395Ok I was wrong about that one, still a big jump from that to third term.
>>104026395apparently it doesn't
>>104026436This is too similar to the slave era.Courts move slow so trump can do whatever he wants until a decision is made.
>>104020009Come to think of it, due to the general economic situation in Canada, Phase has a good chance of getting completely gutted anyway. What little economy they do have is practically on fire and now the part they "borrow" from America is also getting more and more fragile.
>>104020009>Pro-Trump Phase Connect couldn't even finish the statement with "THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!".Boo! Fire all Phase management!
>>104026436it's not, and if you're an american and not taking the piss about this you need to pay attention to how many times he's issued orders that ignore the constitution and ignore previous supreme court rulings because you don't seem to understand the danger that you're in
>>104026471>This is too similar to the slave era.
>>104026511I'm not brown so I'm fine.
>>104026542economic danger, dipshit
>>104020703let me guess. americunt?
>>104026576I already said I'm not poor.
>>104025900HahahahaYou think we have schools.
It really is nothing but third worlders seething in here huh
>>104026063I was actually wondering how it was still around.He made such a show of it too.
>>104026606MAGAtards unironically believe the entire world turning their back on the US at the same time has absolutely nothing to do with trump and is just a huge coincidence
>>104026683it's not third worlders who are going to have their merch interrupted made more expensive buddy
>>104026576There comes a point where it’s hard to argue with them. They still want to believe that Trump has the Rambo bod and is secretly fighting reptilians in his off time when he’s just another old scumbag millionaire that’s just trying to make his money and bail. And when he realizes that Trump doesn’t care about him and would gladly let monolithic corporations import more Chinese and Indian people so long as they give him gold awards, it’ll be too late.
>>104026444That happens when the republican supreme court makes 'If the president doesn't, it's not illegal' legal doctrine and the 'who's going to stop me?' doctrine trump loves to use.>>104026436There's 3 ways trump could get a third term.1. Repel the 22nd Amendment which is not going to happen because even with how they're currently rigging stuff to maintain their majorities, Republicans will not reach a two-thirds majorities in either chamber of congress or reach the state threshold. 2. Try and air bud it like >>104026154 said where they have Vance run at the top of the ticket and trump is VP and after Vance is sworn in he resigns. But that risks Vance betraying him and trump trusts no one, so it's unlikely.3. And the most likely is trump will either start a war or stage a false flag near the 2028 election in order to justify suspending it and stay in power indefinitely. His deploying of the military to occupy cities is designed to get the population used to it so when he does it for real, there will be less shock and blow back.Either way, don't expect the tariffs to come down any time soon since if the esptein list is any proof, he and the media can just gaslight the problem away.
>>104026683>he thinks America is still a first world country
"Equal tariffs" is bullshit and a straight up lie from the Trump administration. The tariff rate is designed so that any positive trade deficit is to be lowered as close to 0 as possible, or even negative to run a trade surplus. If there's anyone to blame, it's that your country didn't import enough from the US, so there will now be a forced trade balancing
>>104026713Sorry what have we lost?
>>104026703Ban date pushed out to 9/17 currently, could get pushed further still.
>>104026776Merch
>>104026713You make us sound like Russia. It's just fucking trade negotiations.>>104026754Straight up BlueAnon in here.>>104026774>we're finally not losing money on tradeHow dare us!
It's the de minimis exemption. Everything from outside US is getting hit, Canada, Europe or wherever
>>104026868Sup shill, you're going to have fun trying to damage control here given you're fucking their bread and circus.
>>104020009Are mods not caring anymore because of how IPs work these days?
>>104026814Ah. The usual from him, then. Lovely. >>104026868>>we're finally not losing money on tradeinstead we're getting no trade. I just want to buy my damn felt and plastic toys depicting my oshi.
>>104027008>Can't have a thread about one of the last surviving EN corpos suspending all merch to America because of trumpWhy?
>>104026517>bunch of states want cheap labor and trying to keep their serfdom peasants from being taken away by the fedsNot the first time this has happened. It's not as violent as last time but if you can't see the similarity then that's just your opinion.
>>104027020>instead we're getting no trade.That's literally the point in case you missed the made in murikka part
>>104027127yeah the problem is it isn't being made in murikka and instead all of the local products skyrocketed in price. Forget vtuber merch, my goddamn groceries have tripled.
>>104027167Groceries don't skyrocket in price due to tariffs, that's how I know you're lying. They skyrocket due to inflation, which happened most severely several years ago.
>>104027251Inflation implies people have money to spend.
We should only watch american-based vtubers who manufacture their merch in USA. Anyone who watches hololive or phase connect is a traitor who needs to be hung.
>>104026683> Americans are getting fucked hard hard by this> Somehow he thinks it's third world country problem?????What the fuck is this faggot talking about? I swear Trump voters aren't really smart, if not the stupidest kind in the world.
>>104027284Such as...?
>>104027279Inflation benefits poor people, especially those in debt. Inflation destroys rich people who have all their money in cash.
>>104027310Filian. But just don't buy her merch unless she makes it in the country and send her superchats about it so she can get started on it.
>>104026713They unironically think he's beating globohomo by doing this stuff, so take that for what you will.
>>104027352>Filian>American
>>104027298Hope you don't use those reading comprehension skills for anything too important.
>>104027393Did you really believe the filipino boy memes?
>>104027284The funny part is that there will never be any, unless they literally make all their merch by hand or they're wealthy enough to produce all their merch locally. Which considering the state of most of these companies, isn't likely since they basically all go belly up within a few years.
>>104027298Americans complaining about tariffs realized it didn't increase the price, at least not as much as inflation did several years ago. Just look at PC part prices in the US, it's hardly changed despite the tariffs. Turns out the companies decided to just earn smaller margins or have the price increase spread across the world instead. What this did destroy are niche products that are low volume foreign products made in 3rd world countries. By being low volume, the importer can't spread a minor price increase throughout the world to minimize any import tariffs.
>>104027519Electronics from china were exempt. One thing Trump did right during the china deal but noone gives him credit for.
>>104027638It's so he could have useful idiots like >>104027519 claim tariffs aren't a problem.
>>104027519>Americans complaining about tariffs realized it didn't increase the price, at least not as much as inflation did several years ago. Just look at PC part prices in the US, it's hardly changed despite the tariffs.How about the prices of eggs
>>104020289Cry about it libtard.
>>104027657Tariffs aren't a problem like inflation is. Tariffs have a purpose. Inflation is just destructive.>>104027681Americans are a net exporter of eggs, so whatever egg price you're talking about is a local issue, not tariffs.
>>104027728You are crying enough.
>>104027742>Americans are a net exporter of eggs, so whatever egg price you're talking about is a local issue, not tariffs.You're not American. Jesus christ. The only way you could ever say this is if you've never set foot in a grocery store. Get out, tourist.
>>104027742Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Tariffs are a problem too given it's the reason my merch is a lot more expensive, and that's if I'm even allowed to get it now. >>104020009Since merch is one of the best ways to support your oshis without getting fucked over by google or twitch.
>>104020009>Americans who voted for this>"uhhh... I actually totally didn't vote for this!!"
>>104027789>https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/eggs/reporter/usa>In 2024, United States exported $599M of Eggs,>In 2024, United States imported $87.5M of EggsNow it's just a simple subtraction problem.
>>104027167>Industry didn't magically pop up overnightWow!I really am amazed by how shortsighted people are, but I suppose I shouldn't be what with how many retards who fail to understand even basic subjects I'm forced to deal with in daily life there are like >>104027508
>>104027798Your selfish desire for baubles and trinkets is worth a lot to the people who voted for Trump I'm sure
>>104020289That part lmao chuds will never learn
>>104027828I rest my case. You've never stepped foot in America, and you likely don't watch vtubers either. Go back.
It's easy to admit you where fooled and apologize /v/t. You'll live longer not holding on to that strain. Here I'll help you:I'M SORRY WORLD THAT I WAS A FUCKING RETARD WHO FELL FOR IT AGAIN AND BOUGHT INTO OBVIOUS PROPGANDA. I'M SORRY THA TI'M GOING TO TAKE AWAY MY MOM'S HEALTHCARE AND RETIRMENT AND MY OWN ANIME VTUBER MERCH OVER LITERALLY NOTHING!It's not that hard.
>>104027889>You will own nothing and be miserable. See>>104027913
>>104027913Wrong
>>104027920>implying the femoid was a better optionSee>>104025932
Imagine defending this as a VTuber fan living in the US who are getting fucked hard by every single decision of the orange man.
>>104027954>Oh no my $10 trinket now costs $30I'm so sorry bro
Holy shit. You need to stop taking the bait.
>>104028030>He's actually doubling down on 'You will own nothing and be miserable' to defend the trump tax hikes.
Trump is never wrong. Republicans have my best interest in mind.
>Trump kills vtuber merch>DiesFunny how that works
>>104027519>Turns out the companies decided to just earn smaller margins or have the price increase spread across the world instead.No, it means the companies stockpiled a lot of inventory and are just burning through it. Something they learn after the coff effects on the supply chain.
I don't cry about not being able to buy chinese junk.
>>104025915De minimis was always a crappy rule, it's a good thing that it was ended
I've been told that 90% of this board are SEA anyway so it shouldn't matter?
>>104027977NTA, but open up that up to show us the entirety of page 3 and 4 sideways with page 3 at the bottom, no redactions, and your hand and timestamp too.
>>104028184I'll do it if you do, I promise
>>104028204Got to be the ID part in case it's magically different for yours and no AI either.
Didn't Canada's GDP shrink by nearly 2% and they lost a fuckload of jobs? It's no wonder he's so desperate for America's attention, Canadians are so useless they don't even want to pay each other. They're falling apart at the seams up there.
>>104028226You first mad lad. I'll follow.
>>104028259Nope, you're the one claiming to be an American, burden of proof is entirely on you.
>>104028244>Just 2%Lol Canadians wish
>>104028079welcome to polthreads
>>104028276>Just doxx yourself to win an argument broGood one bro
>>104028332Yup, get too it election tourist, or have your credibility shot.
>>104020408>institute 10% tax on certain forms of consumption >everyone loses their mindsthis is why no one takes economists seriously
>>104020538You really think taking a giant dump in people's hobbies is "based" bro? Enjoy getting fucked and expelled from every community my man.
>>104020256You guys have to understand, he doesn't know the difference between China and Canada, and to be honest there really isn't much of a difference.
>>104028387you and your whole family are going to have to go back jorge
>>104028360>Farming credibility on /vt/
>>104027920Apologies accepted, glad to see normal people stopping being a Phasecuck and seeing the light.
>>104027920fuck your mom's healthcare and retirement nigga. her bitchass should've used her privileged position as a boomer to invest for retirement better
>>104028408Surrender accepted, non-American. Of course you'd be shilling for the trump taxes.
>>104028472Yeah I'm actually a Canadian that's shilling for Trumptaxxx
>>104028522>He admits itImagine betraying the Fish like that.
Fuck all you retards who voted for this. I want my fucking merch
>>104028402No, but I'm being serious here. You think vtuber and anime fans getting fucked in the ass is going to earn you popularity? And why are you talking about "deportations" in a fucking vtuber thread? Is this some psy-op to make right wingers look like 1 digit IQ retards?
>>104028565send your bitch a superchat, don't act like anyone cares about this chinese plastic bullshit
>>104028546I am literally subscribed to 0 phaseniggers, what gave you the idea
>>104028585No reason to lie now, you already admitted it.
>>104028565Don't feel too bad. At least it's only like several hours of work. Imagine how many days it would take if you were a 3rd worlder to earn enough to buy a little trinket of your oshi.
>>104028568if your vote is based on this shit your vote doesn't mean shit so suck my nuts
Holy shit, so many retards in the thread today
>>104028602>You're such a fucking retard you would watch phaseniggersThat's the worst insult I've received this hour
>>104028685You have done that to yourself.
>>104028699I'm smart
>>104028719Yet you keep lying.
>>104026776Access to the global economy.
>>104028673Not much to say more than Phase is no longer shipping to America because of the trump tariff tax hikes and certain groups who thought they 'won' fell for it again.
>>104026868> It's just fucking trade negotiations.And Russia isn't at war, they're conducting a special military operation.Words have meaning.
>>104028732>You are lying, you must watch phase connect!!!!!!Yeah sure buddy, if that helps you sleep at night
>>104028775Knowing you've been exposed already, yes.
>>104028734americans tip their waiters 20% for reheated frozen food and I'm supposed to believe them tipping uncle sam 10% to buy from china is going to result in a recession
>>104028397China has Chinese people, Canada has Indians.
>>104028794I have been exposed... I can't believe they found out I watch the Asmongold of vtubers... plapper plapkin...
>>104028152This.
>>104028821Glad you admit it.
>>104024987> this isn't meant to last more than a few months at most.This is a cope. Even if for whatever reason the tariffs are dropped tomorrow, the massive disruption and the chances that Trump just decides to do it again are still very high. Americans are going to be paying shit tons on merch even after tariffs drop becauseA. Why wouldn't companies choose to keep their prices higher just like they did during the post COVID inflation?B. It is now riskier to do business in the US and prices must go up to reflect that risk.Months is a very, very long time and lots of businesses will either collapse or go and find other viable alternatives which just leaves the US in a worse position.
>>104028841tariffs are a consumption tax. do you believe that increasing sales taxes by 5% causes inflation?
>>104028838I lied, I don't watch her
>>104028817Yes.The GFC was a 4.3% reduction in GDP in America. You think that 10% can just be eaten across the entire economy?
>>104028869If that's your takeaway from what I said, then you either have poor reading comprehension and you need to read it again or you're retarded.
>>104028913yes, easily. it is a tax increase that can easily be born by the american economy. we still have low corporate and personal tax rates compared to the rest of the OECD
>>104028911Great, so you admit the trump tax hikes are part of the reason prices are exploding and hurting vtubing
>>104028963maybe vtubing's dogshit profitability is to blame idk tho
>>104028949Explain how a 10% reduction in all spending will not result in a recession. >we still have low corporate and personal tax rates compared to the rest of the OECDYes and no. Your tax rates are low, but that's easily made up for the fact that Americans have to pay for things like health insurance out of their own pocket. When you actually compare real wages and discretionary spending for the median American, Americans are slightly poorer than most OECD countries.
>>104028963>"I lied... I don't watch Phase connect">SO YOU ADMIT DRUMPF BAD!!!
>>104029016>it's the businesses' fault
>>104029019well first of all, tariffs force substitution, for american goods and services, which is the express goal of the policy. yes, it will decrease productivity, for the reasons discussed in the following post:https://www.economicforces.xyz/p/6-reasons-why-tariffs-are-a-terriblehowever, this is the express point of the policy. donald trump was expressly democratically elected to weaken the competitiveness of foreign firms and bolster domestic manufacturing and employment, regardless of productivity costs
Why can't Canada accept they're the 52nd state at this point?
>>104029019>Americans are actually poorVery convincing post
>>104029027Yes
>>104029132>OECD countries list which includes Chile, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Portugal, Czechia, Greece, Spain, Hungary, Mexico, Turkey, and so on
>>104029086>tariffs force substitutionNo they don't. They encourage it, but if economic conditions aren't viable, then that product just doesn't exist anymore.>however, this is the express point of the policy. donald trump was expressly democratically elected to weaken the competitiveness of foreign firms and bolster domestic manufacturing and employment, regardless of productivity costsOkay? I don't care why Trump was elected. We're talking about whether or not a 10% tariff on an economy on nearly all goods will cause a recession.It will. I'm glad you agree.
>>104029161So you're from TurkeyThat explains it.
>>104029189I fucking wish I was from Turkiye
>>104029096I do find it funny that Americans are willing to secede nearly all points that their country is shit except for the fact that they are in fact poorer per capita than other G7/G20 countries. It strikes this very sensitive part of their soul.
>>104029174go short spx pussy loltariffs will NOT cause a recession because they are a slightly inefficient consumption taxes that cause keynesian faggots like yourself to piss their pants for obtuse and uninformed reasonscheers
>>104029221Americans are very much more poor than, say Greece or Czechia or Latvia or Slovakia, or Portugal. For sure.
>>104029222Anon, what economic philosophy do you think America runs on since FDR?
>>104029205
>>104029238>hey we're not poor, we're richer than *checks list* these economically stagnating or failed states10/10
>>104029242the federal reserve has not even pretended to obey the taylor rule since 2009
>>104020256Nah, I've read the white house post. Orange man is shitting on everyone. It wouldn't have matter where they would've been produced. Even if they were USA-made, the production price would've also gone up since american-made materials and products aren't as cheap as third-party shitholes.
>>104029270Cool, the Federal Reserve is not entirety of the US Government.
>>104029262>Provides list yourself saying Americans are more poor than most of this list>UMM NOT THOSE ONESok
>>104029299of course not you obtuse faggot. type something interesting
>>104029300Anon, you need to check your reply chain because I am not the person who listed those countries.
It doesn't matter as long as mutts are still Israel's pet
>>104029317>complains about Keynesian economics>>Gets corrected that the American economy currently functions based on those principles and has done so for nearly 100 years>something something federal reserves>>Cool, that has no relevance>FUCK YOU FAGGOT RETARD NIGGERI accept your concession.
>>104029361let history be the judge
>>104029369The defeated retard's equivalent of "it came to me in a dream"
>>104029323Oh sorry I thought you were the OECD guy.In any case, my point stands. The G20 list honestly looks worse.
>>104027802One of the few times I actually feel bad for burgers. There was no winning move, Kamala was also not a very good option, there were going to be 3 years of pain for them, and annoyance for the rest of world, no matter what poison they'd picked.
>>104029433This is honestly a burger genocide. Burgers will never survive being unable to purchase phase connect trinkets.
>>104029444America is a consumerist economy. If it cannot consume, it fucking dies.
>>104029433TRUTH NVKE
>>104029460Yeah, burgers can no longer buy phase connect trinkets so I guess they'll have to spend on their money on iPhones...
>>104029473No they can't because iPhone's are also too expensive.
>>104029489>iPhone are too expensiveGood morning saar
>>104029433>orange jew vs femoid jewGrim
>>104020009Wait, people buy merch from Phase? I thought the fact that Fishman takes at least like half a year to send anything was a big deterrent.
>>104029501iPhone's are too expensive for Americans because everything in an iPhone is imported.I'm fucking Australian.
PDF, phase defense force
>>104029433Looking back now we can see the entire election was: inflation + illegals depress wages Vs. tariffs + deport without the courts
>>104029535iPhones are exempt from tariffs
>>104029583>bend the knee to silicon valley and chinatotal trump victory
how come everyone says tariffs are inefficient but no one stands up for me when I argue that the optimal capital gains tax is zero, when the academic evidence for the latter is even stronger
>>104029583>tariffs on everything>trillion dollar companies are exemptLol this isn't the win you think it is
>>104029596>iPhones are too expensive despite not having tariffI'm so sorry Australia...
>>104029622Because you probably have a retarded definition of what 'optimal' means and it's probably inhuman at it's core.
>>104029624I think you just don't really understand the tariff if you didn't even know we have exemptions of all sorts of things. Well obviously not phase connect merhc.
>>104029622Take it a step further. We should give the libertarian party at least 1 term at the presidency.
>>104029651>tariffs on everything>trillion dollar companies are exemptLol this isn't the win you think it is
>>104029663>Trillion dollar companies that sell huge volume are not tariffed>High volume products that people buy all the time actually aren't tariffedUhhhh..... are you sure it's not the win I think it is?
>>104029625The median disposable income after tax of households in Australia is $64,000.The median disposable income after tax of households in America is $55,000.
>>104029646except that "Optimal Taxation of Capital Income in General Equilibrium with Infinite Lives" (1986) demonstrably demonstrates long term outcomes for all income strata
>>104029691So what's the point of the tariffs if you're not actually targeting the bulk value of imported goods?Are you just deliberately harming small businesses for the sake of mega corps?
>>104029691It was. In return they give us the rare earth metals we will need to bomb iran, russia, venezuela, and mexico.
>>104029717holy fuck I'm drunk. didn't mean to say "demonstrably demonstrates". what a tortured phrase. point stands though.
>>104020009Isn't phase a chud corpo? Almost all of their fans voted for this
>>104029717So you read a book published 50 years ago and that's your justification?
>>104029750I tend to trust papers in top tier journals with over 2,000 citations yes
>>104029731Yes, that's the point. It's a show without causing any real severe damage. It punishes niche products like Phase merch while iPhones, computers, chargers, laptops, and many other high volume products all cost the same.
>>104029772>appeal to authoritySo you have no actual understanding of what you're talking about. Thank you.
>>104026176RELAX, GUY
>>104029775So fucking over regular people and small business in benefit of mega corporations.Thank you for your admission of guilt.
>>104029787have fun refusing to take vaccines and dying at 30
>>104029810How does it punish regular people and small business? Are they for some reason running sweatshops in China? Unlikely.
>>104029821>VaccinecuckI eat gold leaf and rub silver on my wounds. I will live until I'm 100.
>>104029821I'm not making the argument for or against vaccines.You asked why people won't listed to your opinion of capital gains taxed. The answer is, because you don't actually know what you're talking about and you proved that by just vaguely gesturing to an economics paper and saying that lots of other people like it too.
>>104029821Uh... this guy fell for the Corona scam lmaoooooo
>>104029831You think that the vast majority of products and material that small businesses sell and consume are locally sourced?
>>104029821unvaxxed cucks and their highly vulnerable to infectious diseases fleshbags seething in the responses to this truthnvke
>>104029873If it's a product that a large corporation like Walmart can source, small businesses likely can. Which is no different than competition with Walmart than before.
>>104029922>If it's a product that a large corporation like Walmart can source, small businesses likely canElaborate and give examples of how exactly this is supposed to happen.
>>104029922Are you actually sucking off Walmart as some bastion of how businesses should be run?
>>104029948>Hi this is Walmart/Costco, we would like to stock your laundry detergent>Hi we're this small business we would like to stock your laundry detergentAre you suggesting smaller markets have to pay tariffs that are exempt from Walmart? They don't.
the state of americucks
>>104029975No I'm using Walmart as the example of the asshole billion dollar corporation
>>104030011>
>>104030004You just said before that trillion dollar companies that sell huge volmes are not tariffed.Which is it?Either trillion dollar companies are tariffed and the tariffs are damaging the entire economy equally.Or trillion dollar companies are not tariffed giving them an unfair advantage over small businesses.Make up your mind.
>>104030004>so the consumer is just getting fuckedWhat a much better alternative. I'm glad you clarified that
>>104030051I'm saying a number of high volume products are in many cases exempt. But, in either case, large or small business face the same exemption categories.
>>104030104Yes, if you stock Phase merch in your store, you are absolutely categorically fucked. If you stock laundry detergent and groceries, you're ok.
>>104030111So, in certain categories small business ARE being completely fucked because big companies are getting exemptions. In all other cases, the consumers are just being raped.Thank you for admitting it.
>>104030139No, I'm not saying that. Small or large businesses operate in the same category are affected the same. So if you operated a store that only sold imports from China, it doesn't matter if you're a billion dollar company or a small company, you're fucked either way, no matter your size.
>>104030135No you're not. You're paying more for products just because Trump said so.You're either eating a tariff on imported things, or you're eating the additional cost for locally sourced things.
>>104030170So, how many small businesses make iPhones specifically?
>>104030174>tariffs cause domestic inflation because.... erm they just do okayany day now it'll show up in the data, I'm sure.
>>104030205iPhones specifically aren't exempt, the category of product the iPhone is is exempt
>>104030237So you think that manufacturing and sourcing everything in America costs just as much as doing it in China?
>>104020009oh nyooo
>>104030253So if we say iPhones are advanced consumer electronics, which is a category completely dominated by mega corps.Show me all the categories and we can have a look at and see if the burden of tariffs are equally shared or if they are heavily weighted towards mega corps.
>>104030298Small businesses don't make smartphones so it doesn't affect them in the first place unless they stock and sell the product, in which case they would face the same tariffs as Walmart and Costco.
>>104030262and what exactly do those increased costs do to the average persons purchasing power? they decrease it. aka they cause deflation.
>>104030327That's not an answer to questions I asked.
>>104029821Ironically all of the people fearmongering about vaccines now are only alive because their parents vaxx'd them when they were kids
>>104030363And?
>>104030345What the actual fuck are you talking about? This is just word salad.If the price of something goes up, that is inflation. I can afford less of that product, so my purchasing power goes down.You have this completely ass backwards.
>>104030393If you want to just scream into the void random bullshit, why are you roping me into your insanity?
>>104030416I'm Bob. I want to buy and iphone. iphones were $1,000. now, because of tariffs, and iphone costs me $1,100. I now have $100 less income to spend. Therefore, I have less purchasing power. When purchasing power decreases, the price of goods decreases. This is known as deflation. This is the opposite of inflation. Does this make sense?
>>104030458>I now have $100 less incomeWrong. I'm not reading the rest of your post until you learn what words mean. Something being taxed at 10% does not decrease your personal income.Try again.
>>104030458>if price go from $1000 to $1100 I become poorer and that means the price goes downOn what planet does this makes sense? The iPhone doesn't just magically cost less because you're poor.
>>104030475stop playing with words. you know exactly what I mean. you had $x of income, now you have x less $100 of income to spend on other goods and services.
>>104030446I'm just stating there exists categories of products that are exempt from tariffs. In which case, merchants of these products would be affected universally. If you want me to list every category, that's not something I could probably do. It's like asking someone to list every video game.
>>104029821would you consider ever having this chemical makeup in your body? >~H2O10000 + C6H12O6100 + C12H22O1150 + C6H10O550 + C4H6O510 + C6H8O65 + C15H10O72 + K+200 + Ca2+50 + trace elements
>>104030498No I have no idea what you mean because you're not using words in a correct or standard way. You're speaking in terms only you know and I'm not going to argue with a retard on his home turf. You either speak English and using terms as they are accepted in the modern canon, or you concede you're a retard.Choice is yours.
>>104030496if you spend more on x, you have less to spend on y. If people in aggregate have less to spend on y because they are spending more on x, the price of y will decrease
>>104030517>If you want me to list every category, that's not something I could probably doSo your arguing about a topic you don't have the knowledge to argue about.Concession accepted.
>>104030528no, fuck you, you're clearly arguing in bad faith
>>104030543Why?You explained a mechanism but not how it actually works.Why does y have to go down in price simply because people can't afford it? Are iPhones just like $2 in the Congo since everybody is completely destitute?
>>104030550>I moved the goalpost to something we don't know anything about, therefore I won
>>104030564Concession accepted. Continue to be a retard at your leisure.
>>104030584I already accepted your concession, you don't need to pleasure my penis further.
>>104030572if tariffs reduced the purchasing power of americans to literally poverty levels then yes, you'd be right, except the tariffs don't make rich consumers destitute, it's a minor or moderate one time shock to the purchasing power of a rich consumer base
>>104030695You still haven't explained the mechanism.
>>104030721Imagine you own a local bakery. You bake 100 loaves of bread and usually sell them all for $5 each. Now, suppose the walmart in your town closes, and half your customers lose their jobs. They have much less money to spend. They still need bread, but maybe they can't justify a $5 artisan loaf anymore. You still have 100 loaves to sell, but far fewer people are walking in the door with $5. What are your options?
>>104030721How about you provide a counterargument instead of just saying "You're wrong" with no argument or evidence
>>104030763I would change my bread and make an inferior quality loaf that I can still profit off of just as much as the better bread.Why would I accept lower profits just because people can't afford my product? I just make a new product but shittier to retain my total profit.
>>104030763We open a competing bakery because people are going to have to eat and we're going to provide new jobs.
>>104030816jim across the street also has inventory to sell and a family to feed. perhaps in the long run you all go out of business, but more likely you will accept a lower rate of profit.
>>104030768A counter argument to what? The impetus isn't on me to to provide my own argument, the impetus is on him to prove his argument true. Currently, there isn't an argument to argue against other than "I think this".Okay my counter is "I think you're wrong". What a riveting discussion.
>>104030841Why would I do that when there's a more profitable option?
>>104030847Holy shit I'm arguing with a retard. You're wrong.
>>104030458In a time where the price of goods increased at a higher rate than salaries for decades, I think that's unlikely.In the theory of supply and demand you are kinda correct, because demand should go downwhen purchasing power goes down.But the theory only works in a free market economy, and the US hardly is that anymore, because these days you only have a handful of big corporations controlling the market without actual competition.
>>104030870Wrong based on fucking what? You just say shit without any proof or actual thought. You're doing the same retarded shit the other guy is.
>>104030872I think you're wrong.
>>104030868you mean making inferior bread? yeah, that's cheaper bread baby. aka deflationary. aka not inflationary
>>104030887I'm just showing you what you're doing.
>>104030901It's not deflationary retard because it's a different product. Fucking moron.
>>104030914if you think such a close substitution like this is anything else I have very bad news for you about how cpi is measured
>>104030913I never declared the guy was wrong, I'm asking him to prove himself right by asking him questions and asking for explanations.
>>104030914>A different bread sold at a cheaper price doesn't lower the price of breadIt could. When someone buys the cheaper bread they are satiated and no longer needs to buy the more expensive bread.
>>104030943Artisanal bread from a bakery is not a valid substitution for poverty line bread. They are two different products.Unless you think a chunk of beef fat is a valid substitution for scotch fillet?
>>104030949So you're not saying he's wrong, but you're simply asking for clarification?
>>104030953Except, people buy artisanal bread for more reasons than just hunger. Poverty bread does not satisfy those reasons. Therefore it's not a valid substitute.By your fucking logic a bowl of gruel is a valid substitute for all food everywhere.
>>104030971no, but the economists do
>>104030981My position is that he cannot, at minimum, declare himself correct without actually proving that.
>>104031006Okay, say you're right (you're not).Your entire argument is that>America will endure shittier quality products costing roughly the same amount as the better products they bought before, because the economists don't think there's any actual differenceGood argument.
>>104030989If there is no option for gruel people will go the artisanal bread. If there is option for gruel, a set of those people will not buy the artisanal bread and buy the slopbread. The people who went to buy the slopbread no longer exchange their shillings for the artisanal bread.
>>104031017>Hi my claim is A>Please clarify A>A has propositions A1 and A2>Sure please clarify A1 and A2>A1 and A2 have propositions A3 and A4 to support it>Please clarify A3 and A4 as you have yet to provide a formal proof to your opinionI'm calling that retarded
>>104031044no my argument is that america enacted an inefficient deflationary tax that forces substitution for american goods and services at the margin
>>104031050Yes, and? Simply because people feel hunger does not mean that all products which satisfy hunger are exactly the same and valid substitutions for one another as products, not just hunger satisfiers.If people only bought food for hunger satisfaction, everybody would just buy gruel since it's the cheapest. Yet, people don't do that.
>>104031075Why? That's literally what logic and science is based off of. Challenging the beliefs all the way down until you get to the foundation which is either truthful or false.
>>104031091Set A buys artisanal bread: {1,2,3}>A new baker joins the town and introduces slopbreadSet A is now {1}Set B buys slopbread is now {2,3}Now A can lower their prices slightly to hopefully change the set to {1,2} or {1,3} to overall make a higher profit than just selling to {1}. This causes bread prices to go down.
>>104031077It's not deflationary if you're not buying the same product for less. It's a completely different, shittier product for roughly the same as you bought it before.
>>104031119I'm asking you to provide more substantial discussion, it's as simple as that. Science and logic does not benefit from simply saying "That's dumb" or "Please clarify" over and over again.
>>104031134Your scenario is correct.It's got nothing to do with the definition of a substitution when dealing with inflation/deflation though, so why are you telling me this?artisinal bread and slopbread are not the same product when we need to define inflation.
>>104031172you're not talking to me you're talking to someone else who noticed you don't actually say anything
>>104031050this is how we go back to putting actual sawdust in bread to fill it out again. its just inferior don't worry about it you wont ever want to go back to bread that's just made of bread again.
>>104031172I didn't say 'That's dumb'.If you think that basic questioning is beyond you, then go join a philosophy club.
>>104031140why? you can make hedonic adjustments if you like, but whatever price level you get for the shittier bread is going to likely be lower than the artisanal bread.
Look, if Trump dies, this ends REAL fast, because everyone else thinks this is retarded.
>>104031177The problem is once someone commits to either Set A or Set B, they are exclusive to that set. Notice how there's 1,2,3 but there's no duplicates that exist in both Set A and Set B. Therefore if someone is committed to Set B which is a lower price slopbread, they will not join Set A, at least for some duration. And during that duration artisanal bread is under pressure to lower their price.
>>104031224I'm still paying income taxes that were instituted to pay for world war one.
>>104031172>Science and logic does not benefit from simply saying "That's dumb" or "Please clarify" over and over againIt does when the definitions are not established and the other guy just goes on about his asspulled intuition thinking that it's common sense.
>>104031231actual more like the opposite set A would be rich people with excess money, they would then probably charge more because now its a luxury product.
>>104031247next time I'll write my proofs in lean for you
>>104031200>you can make hedonic adjustments if you likeYeah, that's the argument. You don't just get to handwave it.>but whatever price level you get for the shittier bread is going to likely be lower than the artisanal bread.So, your argument AT BEST is the following - You will be poorer- You will consume worse products- You will have a reduced quality of life- BUT those products may offer a slightly better value in terms of your income-to-food ratio than the nicer bread when you were richOkay, I can concede that point.So explain why this is a good thing again?
>>104031269That would be easier than having the same retarded argument ten times over.
>>104031274It's not a good thing, I'm a libertarian, I don't believe in most taxes, I just felt like arguing.
>>104031265They can try that, and it might work. Set A can keep farming {1} and maybe {1} is rich and can continue buying artisanal bread. Or Set B can lower their price for slopbread further in an attempt to attract person 1. Now there's two opposite forces, one raising price and the other lowering price, which would be neither inflation or deflation.
>>104031307Fair enough.
how many "fell for it again" awards can a sharter hold on to before he is crushed underneath their collective weight?
>>104031308now your on thr correct rain of thought, this is what has happened int he past and will happen again, set a the actual good procuct just keep going up, set b which continuously tries to meet the demands by become worse and worse quality till its basically just actual garbage is what everyone else gets, and now you have the worst economic divide between the rich and everyone else possible and have eliminated the middle class congrats. but for real French revolution conditions come to anyone's mind here pretty much what's being described
>>104031393I'd argue there's going to be artisanal bread and slopbread competing even in the most advance and utopic civilizations.Trump and Elon enjoying Diet Coke instead of some fancy beverage proves that there is market for slopbread no matter the conditions. Diet Coke is so cheap even people in poverty enjoy it, yet they're not trying to lower their quality further perpetually but they have lowered their price as their economy of scale improved over the decades.
/vt/ - Economics and Bread
>>104031722don't forget pol
>>104031722kek it's /vt/ariffs.Average /vt/ poster IQ is suddenly raised by this thread compared to the usual vtuber anti threads.
