>>104523763
when you don't know how to properly checkmate its easy to end up in a stalemate. very common for beginners to trap the king not giving it any moves forcing stalemate but not putting it into check for the checkmate.

>>104523763
Baby nooblets can easily stalemate or get one of the pieces ate with a Queen + Rook, advanced nooblets know this risk and would let the king squirm while they push their pawns to get a second rook to ladder mate properly

>>104523763
isn't queen to 7e, king forced to 8a, and rook to 5a checkmate?
how she fucked up?

>>104524339
advanced nooblets won't need 2 rooks and a queen to checkmate

>>104523763
This is normal low elo chess

>>104524573
yes but if your under the assumption you win if they cant do anything like most people do you move queen to a6 into immediate stalemate, didn't watch stream so dont know if that's what happened but i can see it

>>104524037
Just keep checking until it's checkmate.
What's so hard about that?

>>104524986
even if you do that in this position most newer players you go queen to the right check forcing king left, queen to the right check, king go back left and stalemate that way

>>104524986
repeating the same moves 3 times in a row is a draw

>>104524037
I didn't watch the stream, but didn't they get coaching?
If I was doing any kind of chess coaching, I suppose item 1 is making sure they know all the rules properly. But item 2 is definitely, "I'm putting two of your pieces on the board, and I'll only have the king, get a checkmate." Repeat for every valid combination of two pieces.
Forget all other strategy. Beginner chess players can just play tit-for-tat on pieces, and that all just comes instinctually to them.. It's that end game where one person has all the tools to win and the other has none of their tools left that actually decides beginner matches.

>>104523763
No wait, how did she? I'm looking at this and there is litterally no way she staled this. It's already white moves and the staircase is almost complete. This is basic level endgame

>>104523763
its hard

>>104524889
Your nooblets must be quite strong(500+) then

>>104530128
Qa6 is on the movelist.
>This is basic level endgame
You're assuming shes been coached, which she obviously hasn't yet. And if she wasn't, her coach was horrible. The first two things they would teach for a one off event like this is
>a few basic queen/rook checkmate patterns
>stalemates are draws and should be avoided at all costs if you have the clear advantage
Basically what every coach did for pogchamps, the twitch eceleb tournament.

https://lichess.org/S5gtw3PK
3+0 show me what you got

>>104523763
I'm retarded but can't you just move the tower to c7 and win on the next turn?

>>104532542
That's stalemate. Easiest way to win is Queen to B6 or B4 and then Rook A5

>>104532635
I always thought this would be a win. I don't really play chess though so good to know.

>>104523763
None of them know how to play chess in the slightest.
Hope it helps.

Ugh I hate chess nerds

>>104532201
>pogchamps
Not pogchess? Missed opportunity.

>>104524037
stalemates are the biggest fucking cop out retarded shit imaginable. the king can't move without being captured. that's a fucking checkmate, not a stalemate. literal "nuh uh I didn't lose" shit from a petulant, sore loser child

>>104524037
>Very common for beginners to trap the king not giving it any moves forcing stalemate but not putting it into check for the checkmate.
No offense to Chess, but as a very casual player who basically doesn't know any Chess rule (only played with my friends on the most basic games), this sounds like one of the dumber rule to me. If one side cannot make any legal move they should just be forced to pass their turn or surrender - was there any reason why this isn't the case?

>>104532635
wouldn't that also just stalemate?
white's move: queen to B6
black's move: king's only valid move is A8
white's move: rook to A5
black's move: king cannot make a valid move. stalemate

>>104537722
no real clear answer to that other then arbitrary decisions by people during the games conception. though in almost all cases of chess higher then bigger level it shouldn't happen often other then in like almost completely even games, which is rare for humans to have happen because we are imperfect though chess bots have hit a point where like 10k simulated games have 9994 draws from stalemates and random win/loss ratio and are now to even get those numbers forced to play a position favoring one side over the other set up by humans before giving them control to test which is better

>>104537883
king gets put in check by the rook and can escape so checkmate not stalemate there

>>104538402
the king cannot make a move that would put itself in check, thus it cannot escape, no? from A8 it can only move to A7 which the rook has covered, or B8 or B7 which the queen has covered. it has no valid moves.

>>104538726
yes but the difference is that the king is already in check, vs not already in check, if the king is in check and unable to move or be defended then its checkmate, if a players pieces have no legal moves and the king is not in check then its stalemate.

>>104539348
how is that not a win for the person who has valid moves left, though? the opponent cannot move without losing. they have lost, the other side has won.

>>104537447
Checkmate and Stalemate are the same rule/concept with only ONE alteration: In a Checkmate, the King is in Check.

It is on the attacking player to prevent a stalemate. If you don't want a stalemate, don't play into a stalemate.

The hardest game of chess to win is a game you are winning.

>>104539501
a stalemate is forcing the opponent into a situation he cannot possibly win from. he has no avenue or path to victory. nothing he can do will result in a win. how is that not just a loss?

>>104523763
qc7 for the stalemate?

>>104539603
because you can't take your next turn and actually get a checkmate, because the other guy can't take his turn and the game ends

>>104539416
See >>104538265
An old man in charge of drafting up the official rules a thousand years ago probably needed to find a way to BS through his loss and turned it into a draw

>>104539713
That's still a mate because king is forced to a8 them rook a5 checkmate

Okay but like, chess is supposed to be a representation of war, right? A checkmate is essentially one side thoroughly routing the other, what would a stalemate represent? One side did 90% of the job then gave up and left?

>>104539796
he can't make his move because he would lose if he makes it, but one side still has legal moves left if he could. if you can't make a move you should be forced to either skip your turn or concede

>>104539603
>how is that not just a loss
Because the win condition in chess is specific. In a stalemate that specific condition has not been met.

>>104523763
How did Biboo choke my goat from that position?

>>104537722
Combination of two rules. King can't move into check, and mate requires the king to be in check. Since you can't pass it leads to a situation where one player has zero legal moves, and since the win condition of checkmate hasn't been met no player wins.

>>104540402
even though logically one side has clearly lost. it's a slimy excuse to worm your way out of admitting to losing

>>104540524
>even though logically one side has clearly lost
It's not that the side hasn't lost, it's that the other side hasn't won.

>>104540524
You need to take into account the unbalance in chess, stalemates are strategic plays like any other to deal with that.

>>104540194
Common sense says the guy who forced it wins
But legal technicality logic says its a draw. It's not really wrong, its just gay

>>104523763
Most obvious answer: If you go with the obvious play it's an imminent stalemate because Black has no moves he can safely do. If you do the big brain play you can safely move pawns to the other side and get rooks and bishops

bijou is not big brained

>>104540973
>Common sense says the guy who forced it wins
Strategically speaking it is actually a strategy for the one losing to force it to avoid giving their opponent the win. In fact in high level play this rule would basically give an undo advantage to one side and tip the scale of balance.

>>104541245
Common sense means layman intuition you fuckin doofus, basically the opposite of meta strategy

File: file.png (46 KB, 925x621)

46 KB PNG

Putting your enemy in stalemate doesn't necessarily mean you're currently winning.
It took me a while to come up with an example but here's a very contrived one where every move but putting your enemy in stalemate loses. In this case should white still "win" if he stalemates the opponent?

>>104539501
it's harder to win a game you are losing HTH

>>104540524
Stalemates exist as a concept because chess is imbalanced, but the favoured side has a harder time winning without a stalemate. Thus the stalemate rule helps balance the game by giving the handicapped player an alternate condition to play for.

Because chess is solvable, it's rules evolve over time, often in counterintuitive ways, to unsolve some aspect of it and keep it as a game.

>>104524983
holy shit she's retarded

>>104541478
If you're actually losing in chess than getting a stalemate is already not an option. If a stalemate happened then it means you were never losing, because if your opponent was winning they wouldn't have put themselves into a situation to be stalemated.

>>104541399
From my casual perspective: yes, why not? After all, white still brought the board to that situation where he would win after a few more moves. I'd say he deserved a win

>>104524983
>didn't watch stream
Pretty sure this was from a practice game against bots off-stream

>>104541825
>After all, white still brought the board to that situation where he would win after a few more moves.
But they weren't able to win despite that.

>>104541825
>he would win after a few more moves
But black would not be able to make a move so white also would never be able to move again, hence stalemate. He would only win "after a few more moves" if stalemating caused the player to skip his turn, which opens up a whole other can of worms.

>>104540128
Yes like Vietnam or Afghanistan

>>104541849
>>104541893
That's why forced pass when you cannot make any legal move should be a thing

So are we getting a /chess/ general then?

File: file.png (46 KB, 914x614)

46 KB PNG

>>104541993
Then you have this situation, where under the current rules, black's best move is to take f4 and stalemate white, resulting in a draw. If stalemate forces white to pass, then black is forced to move out of the way for white to clear a path for his pawn and subsequently knight, allowing white to win the game.

>>104540128
a normal stale mate would represent both sides being even and unable to do anything other then move around int he same patterns to avoid losing ground to the other, hence the stalemate rule of a stalemate occurring if 3 consecutive turns go by with moves repeated, basically think like ww1 trench wars were your mostly just staring at the other guys. for the no moves available while its a stretch it could be considered like managing to be surrounded but hiding away, you've lost in a sense but aren't dead.

>>104542113
>then black is forced to move out of the way for white to clear a path for his pawn and subsequently knight, allowing white to win the game.
It sucks for Black, but I don't think there is anything wrong with that as long as the game doesn't fall into a loop and at least one side can still make legible moves
(Technically with the forced pass rule Black can still win in this scenario but I don't think that was the point here)

>>104542113
black captures the pawn
white then passes
black, rather than moving, opts to pass
white can only pass again, but because this is the third time that the board has existed in the same layout, so a (true) stalemate is declared

>>104542351
>It sucks for Black
If that's enough justification then "it sucks for biboo" is enough justification for OP, and everyone else stalemating their winning position away.
>>104542358
>you can just pass even if you have legal moves now
Please.

>>104542113
thing is if forced pass was a known rule blacks best move is to not take the pawn and just slowly move the king behind white and take them from behind as white is forced to constantly pass

>>104542505
My brother in Christ if black doesn't take the pawn then white isn't in stalemate and can just move and win regularly, read the evaluation.

>>104542475
>>you can just pass even if you have legal moves now
can you not? that's dumb. sometimes the best move is not to make one

>>104542536
Wait until you learn about zugzwang.

>ITT people that don't play a game tell its players how they think it should be played
Tale as old as time.

>>104542505 (me)
though i'm more for the way a subgame called drawback chess does it, where you are forced to move until the king is actually captured. this is done mostly because it assigns random rules so a normal checkmate/check might not actually be one but it does make more sense to play until the king is taken

>>104542533
where is white moving if black doesn't take that pawn?

>>104542813
nvm i'm dumb king goes backwards

>>104542475
>If that's enough justification then "it sucks for biboo" is enough justification for OP
My point was that she can still make legal moves and win (or in general, the side that "loses" their win due to this kind of stalemate) so making it a draw just didn't sound right from an amateur / casual player's perspective

>>104523763
I'd choke her in all positions if you know what I mean

>>104523763
By playing 61. Qa6, which is stalemate, anon. It's right there in the game record. Don't ask stupid questions.

>>104538265
You are retarded. Almost EVERY grandmaster game is a draw/stalemate. One of them would have to play bad moves to “get a game” or break out a novelty. Almost no well played game of chess gets a win/loss result unless Nihal or Gucci are playing.

>>104541383
“Common sense” has dictated both that the stalemater loses and the stalemater wins, depending on which culture you are playing in. The draw was an analytic solution and the only ones who complain about it are (literally, objectively) bad players.

>>104542536
You are gonna hate learning the rules of checkers.

>>104546913
There are rules of checkers?!

>>104523763
because they had to lose
the shit they were promoting featured them getting captured by Justice so they naturally had to job to make things line up properly
that or they're actually just bad

>>104547438
Anon?

Go back to minecraft or mariokart. cant' even get bump for this shit event

chess sucks

>>104523763
>biboo is smart
>it's all an act

>>104546951
Yes? Even Connect 4 has rules, anon.

>>104523763
I was choking her if you know what I mean.

Shogi is better

>>104523763
Rock brain

>>104552447
Dota is better yeah