Things that i believe ruined vtubing:>ENtubersNearly everything bad thats happened with vtubing can be directly attributed to western vtubers co-opting the medium and then forcing changes that resulted in increased parasocialism with viewers knowing way too much about their personal lives. >Corporate involvementThe concept of having a company manage people is great in theory, but what i've been seeing the past several years is an influx of people joining companies with the intention of gaining a following to them leave afterwards, treating the whole thing like a corporation and taking the soul out of it and replace it with greed.>IRL StreamsAnother huge problem is vtubers doing IRL/handcam/etc streams. Handcams lead to body cams, which lead to whatever KSON has been doing. Its awful, it kills the spirit of vtubing, and doubles down on it when the vtuber shows off that they are attractive behind the camera as well, creating a situation where other vtubers start doing it because of the attention they get out of it and creating a situation that, for all intents and purposes, should not exist at all. >LewdtubingThis has been getting worse and worse every single year. When I see the flood of vtubers hypersexualizing themselves in hopes of puling in viewers it just ruins the entire medium. The scene is already oversaturated with fleshtubers pretending to be vtubers, and then adding sluttubing to it lowers the bar even more creating an environment where oversexualized streamers are taking potential viewership away from people that actually take vtubing seriously.>Announcing relationship statusThis is a huge one. The core audience of vtubers watch them for escapism from real lifes problems, this is a matter of fact that cannot be argued, as its true for fleshtubers as well, however vtubing was an extra step of separation from real life. Involing your offline life does nothing but alienate the people that wanted their mind taken off of how rough their lives are.>GFE/Girlfriend ExperienceThis is another huge problem, creating a situation where viewers become even more parasocial than they otherwise would have been. And to double down on it, there have been so many instances of vtubers abusing their fans with this kind of thing, effectively grooming their own fans, which is a bad thing, and shouldnt have to be explained upon. I'm sure a ton of people are going to disagree with me and thats fine, I expect it, but please look at the big picture and see how horrible vtubing has become as a whole. Its so much worse compared to 10-15 years ago, and while a lot has changed for the better, even more has changed for the worse, and im sure that change is permanent at this point.
>thing focused around women is complete garbageImagine my shock. Imagine.
Cool Blogpost fag
Just say that you hate Vtubers next time instead of writing out paragraphs, retarded faggot.
nice blogpost retard, why do you think anyone cares about what you believe?
>>104746539>Its so much worse compared to 10-15 years agoIt's hard to argue against that...
>>104746539I unironically blame the streaming platforms algo.Everyone is forced to do the same shit because algo favors FOTM garbage. That way there is very little variety among vtubers both big and small.
>>104746539>Leddit spacingHoly faggotry admitted here, Krakatoa save us.
You know what vtubing needs? Another global pandemic.
>>104746539You ruined vtubing when you rejected the Old Gods.
>>104746539I am tired of graduations. Cover needs to let go of the loathsome 3 am meetings if they actually exist and mandatory japan travels. Also, hire less grifters. Why don't they hire japanese girls that speak English like Pikamee and Irys?
>>104747219Add shiori to the old gods
>confusedanimeAre you even trying?
>>104747894I was gonna use a webm of melody and shylily, as an example of most of whats wrong with modern vtubing, but the upload got rejected due to having sound.
>>104746539>>Announcing relationship status>This is a huge one. The core audience of vtubers watch them for escapism from real lifes problems, this is a matter of fact that cannot be argued, as its true for fleshtubers as well, however vtubing was an extra step of separation from real life. Involing your offline life does nothing but alienate the people that wanted their mind taken off of how rough their lives are.TRVTH NVKE
>>104746539a woman wrote this post
>>104746539>Its so much worse compared to 10-15 years agoKizuna Ai debuted 9 years ago. What the fuck are you talking about?
>things that ruined vtubers>lists EN first>but then lists a bunch of other problems that all came from JP firstlmao faggot
>>104748730She wasn't the first vtuber
>>104746539>ENtubers, IRL Streams, Lewdtubing, Relationship status, GFESo to summarize parasocialism.We should have gatekept harder. Normies ruined it as always. They can't stand something when there isn't a social component to it.
>reeeee EN le ruined vtubing >lists "problems" created by and rampant in JP lol, pathetic weeb.
>>104749041normies hate parasocialism
>>104749155No, they hate the most extreme forms of it. Maybe no gfe but otherwise they want it all the same.>>104749041It is ironic that some diehard vtubers basically wrapped all the way around and try to use more parasocialism to differentiate themselves when that is what caused the problems in the first place.
>>104746539I like how every paragraph after the first happened because of JPs
>>104749152>>104750010>ENtards seething that their sole contribution to the medium is amplifying underlying problemslmao
>>104750869So corporate involvement, handcam, lewd streams, relationship announcements, and GFE never existed until Western vTubing took off? That's some revisionism.
>>104746539just say brownoids
>>104746539you're not wrong
>>104746539I hate the existence of "Virtual" tubers who put a Vtuber model in the corner of the screen and make their flesh body the main focus of the screen.They don't understand the fundamental concept of Vtubing."They're anime characters, but unlike anime, they can communicate with the audience."They use the excuse that "JPs do it too," but in reality, they're disliked even by JPs, and are seen as disrespectful people who jumped on a trend without understanding the culture or why it's popular.Most of the criticism against Kson was because she does Vtubing and flesh on the same channel.Words have meaning. If someone presented you with "something" made from ingredients that don't make a hamburger and called it a "hamburger," would you consider it a hamburger?
>>104753988no what you're doing is getting angry at "Five Guys: Burgers and Fries" for also selling hot dogs.
>>104754315Your argument is off the mark"They're anime characters, but unlike anime, they can communicate with the audience."
>>104753988kson has been a vtuber for far longer than anyone in your village has had internet access
>>104754467自分は日本人でKsonがYoutubeを立ち上げる前から生きているが?
>>104746539so what would vtubing look like in your autistic world?Kizuna AI shorts only?
>>104747269If they want mandatory monthly JP travels they should just look for girls willing to move to Japan, make it clear this is what they want, and avoid obvious problems
>>104746539>>Corporate involvement>I'm 12 and I've never read Marxriveting
>>104746539>Increased parasocialismYOU killed vtubing, anon
>newfag pretends they know what vtubing is and what it should beI bet you found Hololive after this board was created and only watch them. I use "watch" loosely here, you don't even sound like a clipfag, you sound like a threadwatcher and vtuber noises reposter.Your whole posts screams it.
>>104746539Triangulating OP's oshi by excluding these conditions. Standby.
>>104753988>Most of the criticism against Kson was because she does Vtubing and flesh on the same channel.Nah most of the criticism against Kson was because chinese people be like
>>104746539I agree tbhonThe constant "yuri!!!!! sex!!!!! mommy!!!!!" Jokes get old after a whileDo people really think its peak comedy when its overdone?
>>104755290where do you think you are
>>104755367Do you really laugh your ass off when you hear a vtuber moan obnoxiously
>>104755433i slap my knees and point at the screen
>>104746787working on it
>>104755249I don't know what the situation was like for Chinese people after Coco retired, but if the criticism of her continued even after she was reincarnated as Coco into Kson, then you're probably right.Let me offer one more opinion. (about overseas perception.)Fans who only see Vtubers as characters, become obsessed with the characters, have no interest in the real-life performers, and demand that the roles be professional are called "parasocial."On the other hand, people who call themselves "Vtubers" and use the Vtuber tag but bring up IRL content want people to "look at me inside, not the character," but isn't that a desire for approval or true parasociality? Why is it ignored or defended?
>>104754553でもksonはニコニコで始めたんだ、バカ
>>104756044 (me)Demand was strong and wrong word, just want
>>104756138その時代から知っているしKsonよりもうんと歳食ってるが何か?にわかは黙ってろ
>>104756044idk man i have a mortgage
>>104746539The EN vtubing scene just accelerated the decline, the JP scene is full of garbage too. It was inevitably gonna become nothing more than "normal streamer girl with an avatar", so like the e-girl boom from back then but with 100x more the irony.
>>104756138あと、わざわざ日本語でコメントしなくていいぞ文章と感情がズレてて不自然だから
>>104746539>but what i've been seeing the past several years is an influx of people joining companies with the intention of gaining a following to them leave afterwardsI sincerely doubt that almost anyone in a *major* company has gone in with that express intention. The ones you're probably imagining to have done this would've signed on when only maybe people like Kson and Sayu were the main examples to look at of what a post-corpo re-debut looks like. Very bumpy roads. There just wasn't a great assurance of taking your audience (or at least enough to make you a comfortably large indie) with you after graduation until 2024.
>>104746539yea
>>104756044It's unavoidable because almost no one can actually maintain kayfabe 24/7 and the audience will be able to sense it if it's forced. When you put someone on a stream for 4+ hours a day every day, they're gonna end up talking about their actual experiences eventually. It's a balancing act of how much you can show beneath the mask without letting it slip.
>>104746539Coco ruined vtubing
im gonna marry my oshi
>>104756200>>104756372英語のフォーラムで日本語で書くバカが言うことか?ハゲのバカ野郎
>>104756736You're right. And Vtubers don't necessarily have to have a deep lore or background.And there's just a difference between the real-life topics that are mentioned during live streams and showing your flesh body on camera under your own control.
>>104757189>Making fun of writing in Japanese on an English forum>also (You)
>>104746539>Things that i believe ruined vtubingyou existing
>>104757613>>104754553
are anons just going to keep making complain threads or actually move onI've made up my mind, will start detoxing with chinese cartoons. Mass unsub and clicking do not recommend for anything live2d
>>104759201So? It doesn't change the fact that >>104757189 did the same thing.In fact, the best thing you could have done was to provide an objective and persuasive rebuttal to my opinion, but you didn't even do that.It's not smart to just change the topic or point of contention and make fun of me without offering a rebuttal.It makes it seem like you're running away because a rebuttal is impossible.
>>104746539Funily enough Fubuki has been done an amazing job (minus male collabs) of keeping the illusion of purity and true escapism up. Shame she couldnt have cared less about the EN audience
>>104746539Nothing above beats permission. And I’m not even talking about the permission requirements that vtuber companies need to follow. I’m talking about the fact that gaming companies can copyright strike your channel if you don’t comply with their demands without facing any backlash from the streaming community. What’s worse is when fans of certain agencies actually celebrate this kind of thing.
>>104746539>things that ruined vtubingpippaOP
Your corporate involvement really seems to ignore that the company can become overbearing for any number of reasons to the talent or to the talent's content which makes it stale as fuck.
>>104760157I'm slowly moving towards that too. I put anime basically on hold for the last 5 years, and that sucks. It's such a timesink for livestreaming and I don't care about idol concerts if I'm not invested in a talent.
>>104748770we don't count that guy on /jp/ that recorded himself masturbating with live2d
>>104761068Nta but I do.
>>104761068Funny enough, the first time I saw live2d was some POE streamer using it (and a friend who streamed as an anime girl for a month with it).
>>104761068for me its eilene
>>104760532>accuses of diverting>was the first to divertwow you sound like a bitch, stop talking to me faggot
>>104746539>Corporate involvementJP invented this>LewdtubingJP does this>Announcing relationship statusJP does this>GFE/Girlfriend ExperienceJP does this
I fully agree with you on IRL streams and videos. Those people who do that are not vtubers.
>>104746539Cool blog post. Always enjoy the gatekeepy dorks who declare what has "ruined" the medium of people streaming using face tracked virtual avatars.>>104756044There's nothing inherently wrong with "parasocialism", so long as you retain some actual perspective. I'd go even further and say it's natural with streamers etc. to feel a kinship with them that is basically impossible for them to reciprocate at an individual level, because they are one person and you are thousands. If a vtuber I like is sad, I want to cheer them up. If they accomplish something, I'm happy for them. Those are parasocial feelings, but there's nothing WRONG with them.
>>104746539
>>104760979anime is soul-rotting garbage
>>104764296are you implying vtubing isn't?
>>104748531Nah, people needs to be reminded of how life sucks.
>>104764172Thank you for your reply.I have nothing against parasocial feelings and completely agree with your opinion.The reason I brought up the topic of parasociality is:- When Vtuber fans want Vtubers to protect the minimum Vtubing concept for their Vtubers (fictional characters) or when they enjoy ASMR and GFE (settings), tourists see it as "parasocial" in a negative sense, saying things like "fans are so obsessed with the characters that it's creepy" and "the performers might get into danger."- On the other hand, tourists praise Fleshtubers who break down the wall between fiction and reality and try to get closer to their viewers by showing more of themselves rather than characters, saying they are "honest and healthy with their viewers" and "not parasocial."I dislike this completely opposite way of thinking based on Vtubing standards.
>>104765363yes
>>104746539>IRL StreamsTrue, very true. What's even the point of using an avatar/persona if you're just gonna casually show your RL body/face?Yet there are unironic simps /here/ who will defend that. Those undarge kids and coomers use all kinds of mental gymnastics to defend it or straight up mock anyone who complaints about it. Anything for more mediocre fap material.
>>104766325I mean, I think where you're going wrong is in this idea that people who like those things are the 'real' vtuber fans, and people who don't are "tourists". The vtubing sphere is a lot bigger than JP corpo-coded idol shit, and has been for years at this point. There are plenty of vtubers who can pull CCVs similar to the average HoloEN stream, who aren't afraid to do RL streams showing their hands or talking about their real lives to some extent. Their viewers are vtuber fans.If a vtuber wants to cater to GFE or ASMR, or make the free choice to avoid collabing with men, that's their choice and I respect it (assuming it really is their choice, and not something they feel pressured into). What I don't like is people applying that bar to vtubers who have explicitly rejected that kind of parasocialism, or calling them grifters and traitorous whores because they don't want to indulge your fantasy of them as your girlfriend and fap material.Christ people are still whining about Nimi saying she's getting married, despite her EXPLICITLY and infamously doing her "we are not friends" speech as Fauna well before then, setting clear boundaries. People have meltdowns about vtubers collabing with men, as though it's somehow a violation of the GFE or fantasy to acknowledge that women can and do talk to men in a casual or friendly capacity. THAT is the kind of parasocialism I think is pathetic.
>>104746539>increased parasocialism>le badOkay, on just that alone your entire opinion is worthless.
>>104746539I agree, those listed are some of the reasons why I don't actually watch vtubers.
>>104770438Handcams are fine. There are some types of content that are impossible with Vtuber models alone (Gunpla building, card openings, etc.).The problem is when people who call themselves Vtubers choose to show their real bodies when there's no need to.It denies their Vtuber status and belittles the culture.Everyone would be opposed to forcing GFE on those who don't want it. It has nothing to do with Vtubers.Regarding Nimi, I see her as a Vtuber, and the fact that she has a husband is simply part of the character's lore and setting.It's not right just because a large company does it, or wrong just because an individual does it.Obviously, there are limits to the consideration people can make. What's important is how much each Vtuber respects the concept of virtual life forms.Because the cover represents both a large company and the face of the Vtuber industry, they are careful about their talent exposing their bare skin.There are many indie Vtubers like this as well. At the very least, as long as they use the category of Vtuber, I think they should accept criticism for not using Vtuber models and for unnecessarily exposing their real bodies.A hamburger is a hamburger, and a hot dog is a hot dog.
>>104746539>Corporate involvementHow do you think this industry started?
then stop hanging out in parts of the internet where EN vtubers and their fans reside? its easier to stick to a certain side of the net if you have enough self discipline.
>>104772694how about (You) fuck off instead
