cover learning the hard way why you do not invest in the crazy burger market

I'm gonna buy the dip.

>>107250207
Eh, it's just gonna rise up again like it always does after each graduation.

>>107250207
Not the time for this, anon

>>107250207
https://www.itmedia.co.jp/business/spv/2511/19/news027.html
This Japanese guy has written an entire article on why Holo stock is flopping while Anycolor is doing so well. One of the main things they blame is graduations from Hololive. They point out that the way so many talents have been able to redebut as indies so easily is undermining investor confidence that the IP Cover has is worth anything and has exposed that they have exactly the same problems as other traditional talent agencies, investors previously thought that Cover owning the character IP helped protect them from this compared to regular talent agencies but they have the same problems of too much dependency on key individuals to keep the company afloat.

They also talk about how Cover has to write down 550 million yen in unsold merch they've had in warehouse since 2023. And speculate that of management doesn't improve and graduations keep happening investors think they'll have to do big write downs again for merch that won't sell now the talents have graduated.

They also talk about how investors think HoloEarth is a waste of resources now the hype around metaverses coming from silicon valley has died down and that it has little potential for driving any real future growth in the business.

>>107251146
>holoearth
that's the one thing that has always bugged me since the start, what the fuck was cover/hololive thinking investing so much in that shitty SL/Rust/Ark rip-off

biggest blunder

>>107251146
>the way so many talents have been able to redebut as indies so easily is undermining investor confidence that the IP Cover has is worth anything
OY VEY

>>107251146
One advantage Anycolor has having so many members really is that losing any one of them on average is going to have very little impact on the company revenue overall compared to Hololive.

>>107251229
Holoearth's existence is the one thing that not even holodrones can defend

>>107251146
Kek haven’t seen this retard in a while
Dudes been melting down about Hololive for like 4 years now

>>107250800
smart but risky, don't hoard it, sell when the value is above 2000 yen

>>107251070
although this is true, it really doesn't matter much in the end. according to what ive seen, cover only sold thier stocks at the beginning at 750 per stock. the price has only increased due to fan buyers and speculators bringing up the price. so long as the stock does not go beneath 750, then technically it is not a net negative for them. Having healthy expectations for your company is a good thing.

>>107251539
ok ur right i read the document wrong https://www.ipokiso.com/company/2023/cover-corp.html
it says they had it initally at 750 for ipo but the public listing price was 1750

>>107251146
>They also talk about how investors think HoloEarth is a waste of resources
Anyone with eyes could have seen this from day 1. Anyway, interesting article. The way cover just keeps hemorrhaging talents has to be bad for the VCs (fuck them). It's been all downhill since going public.

>>107251146
>This Japanese guy has written an entire article on why Holo stock is flopping while Anycolor is doing so well
>One of the main things they blame is graduations from Hololive. They point out that the way so many talents have been able to redebut as indies
Genuinely VERY funny to say this when Niji has like 15 graduations a year with the majority of them all usually redebuting elsewhere, when Holo has like 9 since 2020 and only about 2/3rds of them have comeback
This guy has Riku's cock all down his throat

>>107250950
it's over 30% down in the last year
this graduation only accounts for a small part of that

>>107252276
Yeah but hololive has significantly less talents, so every graduation is significantly more of the talent pool

>>107252276
>only about 2/3rds
Holy fucking cope. It's almost like Niji has a kajillion talents. If your business has a riskier bus factor, of course it's going to feel deeper setbacks when a talent graduates.

Stock chart threads are a pathetic invention from /v/.

>>107250207
>Me learning about stocks and investing for the past few months
>Me seeing it intersect with one of my hobbies
Oh shit I'm about to see what I learned outside of a book!

>>107252276
The size of the fanbase each Hololive member carries is on a completely different level compared to Nijisanji.
Because of that, even a single graduation in Hololive can have a visible impact on the company’s performance.

On the other hand, although Nijisanji has many graduations, aside from a handful of top members, most graduations don’t cause a major impact.
Hololive fans often boast about subscriber numbers, but conversely, that also means the company is highly dependent on each individual talent.

Even if individual subscriber numbers are lower, Nijisanji compensates through the sheer number of talents.
And in reality, there actually haven’t been that many Livers who contributed massively to the company and then graduated.
The “holes” created by those who do graduate tend to be small, and Nijisanji fills them with new Livers joining the roster.

Hololive, however, hasn’t been able to do that.
No new talents have emerged with enough popularity to fill the gaps left by those who graduated.
This was reflected in their most recent financial results.

>>107251431
He doesn't seem particularly interested in Hololive to me?
https://www.itmedia.co.jp/author/225065/spv/
Just looks like he's an average business/tech writer looking at his articles.

>>107252276
>They point out that the way so many talents have been able to redebut as indies
This one's funny, as if they could stop them.
I mean Niji tried but all they did was make her one of the biggest indies around instead.

>>107250207
Investors are free to try finding the main cause of the problem, but they won't like the findings that THEY are the reason why Holo is mixing up company revenue over talents well-being

They can't expect the company to earn 8 figures of revenue while demanding the talents to work less. They KNOW that, and Cover already saw that happening ever since IPO. That's why Cover poured more investment in HoloEarth and the mobile game HoloDreams. Those two will be extra revenue so that the talents can actually sit back more instead of working their ass off more for the company projects. They also just announced new auditions so expect more new members to appear in 2026 to potentially lift off old members weight off their shoulders

>>107251146
Anyone who doesn't mention the biggest point (that even investors themselves mentioned) that there is basically no way for investors to profit from Cover stocks outside of selling them (no influence over the company's direction or choice, no buyback, no paying dividends) basically has no idea what he / she was talking about
If Cover starts buying back their stocks or paying dividends, their stock value will soar but they don't GAF so, oh well

>>107251146
anon, anycolor has fucking burned half a billion usd on buybacks and dividends to keep their stocks value high

>>107252276
He seems fairly balanced to me looking at the last article he wrote comparing the two companies near the start of the year he was arguing that although it may look like Nijisanji is far ahead of Hololive on paper due to being far more profitable he expects that in the medium to long term the gap will shrink.

>Looking at profit levels alone, it may seem as though Cover is far behind Nijisanji. In reality, it would be best to see them as continuing to grow at a rapid pace while coexisting in an attempt to catch up and surpass each other.

>In the medium to long term, Cover, which has a high rate of increase in sales and profits and is focusing on capital investment, may actually be in a favorable position. Therefore, the actual difference between the two is actually smaller than the apparent profit amount, and this difference is expected to narrow in the future.

I think that reincarnation does affect IP value, but in a roundabout way. Say that Person A graduates from Corpo. If person A reincarnates as a vtuber with merch and stuff, that is money that a fan is not spending within the Corpo environment, functionally "stealing" them. Even if they still watch stuff from other Corpo members, and still by merch, it wont be at the same rate. Thus you "lose" a percentage of the fans that were attached to that original IP. That's what's really causing the value to drop, the merch and ad rev on a graduated channel don't matter as much as having the fans spending the same amount of energy into the group as a whole. So finding a way to keep the original IP relevant while a talent has reincarnated is what I think the strategy should be. Because right now they keep it locked up as if it's "sacred" or "forbidden" and rightfully so, when a person truly "graduates". That's the sort of thing "affiliation" is supposed to be. some sort of deal with the talent who is leaving to return into the industry to keep thier ip active in some way. not full "appearing in concerts" but more just general presence in like lore and stuff. but of course, it cant be coerced, it has to be mutually agreed upon, or else that could get bad. if not that, then maybe something like a "passing of the torch ceremony". I know Ame basically did that, a whole ass tour of all of EN to try and make sure anyone who still wanted to stick to hololive had plenty of opportunity to.

>>107253045
Why can't Holo do the same? I guess they're too poor huh. Orl

>>107252877
That isn't a major point to anyone in business though? Paying dividends isn't some huge deal thousands of companies do it. It's not some dirty underhanded tactic to grow your stock price like the hololive fanboys like to make out. And it certainly wouldn't cause ongoing divergence in stock prices. It would have a one off impact on announcement and then be factored into the price always going forward.

>>107253133
i mean its kinda dirty if you are essentially taxing your smaller vtubers to pay the dividends for your investors. unless niji is really making THAT much off of its original songs and group events. Follow the money, you'll find the blood.
same sentiment works for holo too though

Nijisanji won, Lulu is coming back, Hololive is flopping and losing members.

>>107253091
It’s a waste of money

I think what holo needs to do, specifically holo EN, is make some buisness moves. Hire some big indies who have sticky fanbases already. that way, if they leave, they dont affect things as badly as if someone who was there from the beginning leaves. It doesn't need to be the plan going forwards, but at least to cover the difference. It's a risky move, but I actually think itd work out. now if any big indie was stupid enough to agree to such a thing, is another story.

>>107253262
I mean if you look at their own presentations the only real difference is that Anycolor is currently more profitable than Cover. Cover themselves say if they become more profitable in future they will look at setting up dividends to return some of that profit to investors. If Cover were more profitable they'd be doing the same thing. Anycolor makes enough profit that they can reinvest into the company and still have money left over to return to shareholders while Cover only makes enough to reinvest in the company and not to pay shareholders something too.

>>107253320
Don't give me hope regarding Suzuhara Lulu's return.

>>107253400
And why would any consumer care about that? Do you look at Disneys stock as a viewer and think “I wish they’d do some buybacks to pump that”? The only real thing that matters is that Hololive has the superior product and better vtubers. Thats why Nijifags talk about stock instead of the talents they watch because they don’t watch streams their entire identity is just living to score points against Hololive like console war fags

>>107253400
>Cover themselves say if they become more profitable in future they will look at setting up dividends to return some of that profit to investors. If Cover were more profitable they'd be doing the same thing
That wasn't what they said. If you weren't shitposting, you might want to read it again. They only said that they *might* consider doing it. They never said anything about profitability when it comes to it, neither did they say they will be doing it either
Cover and AnyColor has roughly similar revenue but Cover invested a lot more back to the company which was why their profitability is way lower than AnyColor

>>107253500
That's not true at all though? You can easily look up each companies reinvesting back into the company.
https://finance.yahoo.com/compare/5032.T?comps=5253.T
Under Cash Flow, last financial year Anycolor's Capital Expenditure was $14.5m and Cover was $16.2m. Capital Expenditure is where all the spending on items meant to contribute to the long term growth of the business goes. And as it shows they have practically the same amount reinvested back into the company lat year. The difference between the two of that Anycolor is just a far more efficiently run business and has much higher costs than Anycolor.

>>107253500
And I went and looked it up again and it didn't change anything.
> Possibility of transitioning to a stage where we consider shareholder returns from a
capital efficiency perspective, depending on our financial soundness and cash
generation capabilities
They are literally saying if the company is financially sound and generating enough free cash flow they will transition to paying dividends. There's no principled stance against it or anything, if they were making enough to do it they would do it.

>>107253784
Efficiently run is a very kind euphemism for giving their talents a 2% cut of sales while they pocket the rest

>>107251229
An attempt to make something to outlast talents and continue making money off of their IP even after graduation. They've talked about it a bunch, but fags here just LOVE ignoring any of the shitty part of the corporate talk.

>>107250207
you know what, let it burn. The Hololive we loved is dead, there is only newfags and cliques.

>>107253500
Let's not be dumb and face reality anon. Companies join stock market for a reason, to have more funds for their own projects. But who fund them? Investors. Do you expect them to simply give you money with no returns? That is like donating your money to bitcoin without planning to get it back

You don't join the stock market to take money from investors only to not give them anything back. The only reason Cover is still standing is because they are still in the green. Albeit not as much profit as Anycolor, but it's still a positive number. The reason they are stuck in Growth market is because they don't have enough extra money to give investors without bankrupting themselves and TSE probably calculated that there is no way Cover can pay investors at this state to promote to Prime

Cover WILL give money to investors eventually, either voluntarily or legal force (because investors have the right to earn money too). The good thing about Growth market is that Cover can continue ignoring the investor problem, but that is only a temporary ignorance

>>107253045
The fact that Anycolor even has that amount of money to freely burn should tell you something

>>107253091
>>107255384
98% of the cuts anon, that is not an own

>>107251146
>Investors push for worse conditions and more work for talents
>Complain talents are graduation
You don't hate investors enough.

>>107251350
the funny thing is popular nijis rarely retire while the shitters dropped like fly and that is actually good for them

>>107252276
the one graduateed from niji is the negligible shitters so no problem :))

>>107250207
>that dead cat bounce at the end

>>107250207
This is great. Yagoo can buy the stocks and make the company private again.

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>>107256540
Going public in the first place was stupid. Short-term profits are never good for a company's lifespan.

>>107255581
>Investors push for more work for talents
proof?

>>107251229
>>107251146

All they had to do was make an exact copy of the idol project love live

>>107256540
He is getting shit on hard
https://x.com/tanigox/status/1995803388781715602

>>107256540
>thinking yagoo wants to do that at all
delusional

>>107257475
Damn you aren't kidding, like 95% of the comments are critical of him

>>107257093
You don't go open traded just for profits. You usually do it because you want a lot of money to re-invest into something beyond your current projected revenue, or to cashout. Since Yagoo didn't cashout we can assume it was the former.

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Today I shall remind them.

>>107257475
funny it is backfire hard

>>107259822
Except a company like Bushiroad can recast their characters. They should've thought that through.

cover has good financials so it can weather this storm

>>107259822
>streaming free falling
huge red flag

>>107250620
Kanata, Burger Market? Fucking retard

>>107251146
It is always hilarious that the people who blame the investors for everything bad will also defend all the terrible things investors want so the stock will go higher. People buying stocks are mad that Cover doesn't kill talents when they graduate and continuing milking their IP, they don't give a flying fuck that people are graduating.

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>>107250950
>Eh, it's just gonna rise up again like it always does after each graduation.
It has yet to return since Gura's announcement over 6 months ago. The poor financial reports are not helping.
How long are you going to wait?

>>107261082
Streaming's going up expontentially on that chart you fucking retard. Learn math.

>>107259822
Big IPs graduating has hurt this model.

>>107261265
* though it will rebound, be prepared to sell quickly, before it drops again...what others plan doing and those wanting out.

>>107251146
And for some weird reason, management's response has been "better keep doing the same thing we've been doing, it'll work this time."

>>107261525
Heck, they doubled down by hiring even more employees. All while their golden geese are leaving one by one and unsold merchs are collecting dust in their warehouse.

>>107261885
Nobody is going to have any investment in it at this rate. Like who wants to watch vtubers when you know that's a pretty strong chance that they're bailing the moment they get popular enough to not have to put up with cover's bullshit? Nobody wants to get attached to a talent if they have a strong possibility of leaving.

We already saw this happen with Nijisanji. For a long time nobody wanted to touch them because their talents kept bailing like flies and when they hired newbies, nobody wanted to watch them because there was zero guarantee they'd stay for a long time.

>>107253784
lol why do so many go around pushing this narrative that cover invests so much back into growiythe company compared to Anycolor when there's only $1 million difference between them? do people just parrot anything they hear that makes hololive sound good without even checking if it's true?

>>107262629
>do people just parrot anything they hear that makes hololive sound good without even checking if it's true?
That is one of the many things holodrones do, yes.

>>107253889
7 whores and one true idol

>>107253875
If you honestly believe the difference in their profitability is down to a difference in how much they pay the talents then man Cover is super fucked. If the rest of the company is being run efficiently and they still can't get their profit margin above 10% it's a garbage business.

>hahaha, Niji is so stupid focusing on Japan its EN branch is on fire
>oh shit, the orange retard has made the EN market severely unprofitable, noooo stock price doesn't matter

>>107261082
>free falling
retardchama?
46% of 5 Billion vs 23% of 30 Billion

>>107250207
How's HoloEarth doing?

>>107263233
Recently got into hot water by having parody character of a killer involved in hit & run case years ago in Japan.
That's unironically the thing which reminded me that it still exists.

>>107250207
What was the graph at during the golden age?

>>107264141
Depending on your definition of golden age. Cover went public in 2023.

>>107251146
>One of the main things they blame is graduations from Hololive. They point out that the way so many talents have been able to redebut as indies so easily is undermining investor confidence that the IP Cover has is worth anything
The situation is likely even more grim with EN fans that have less attachment to the brand name. If talents believe Cover is a bad company than why should fans care? Even many of the talents who stay in Hololive feel like they secretly hate the company.

>>107251146
>They also talk about how investors think HoloEarth is a waste of resources
Yagoo will never give up on HoloEarth and like Holostars he cares about the Metaverse too much. HoloEarth though is draining the company of resources that could have been spent on improving the working conditions in Hololive. That looks horrible when Cover is having a record number of graduations in 2024 and 2025.

>>107257799
One f my favourite delusions I read on this board and shitter is that yagoo is a good guy, just a smol bean that has to do all the usual ceo stuff against his will. he is fighting for us, the fans.

>>107250620
>>107251146
Let's be honest. Evil corporations thrive while decent corporations go out of business.

>>107255210
>Companies join stock market for a reason, to have more funds for their own projects.
In Cover's case, they did it because the laws forced them to, though, being a VC company and all that. Their only other alternative was selling the company

>>107252874
HoloEarth seems completely retarded, and I don't know anything about HoloDreams, but if it's a whale-leeching gacha I couldn't blame them. Probably the smartest way to get a lot of money off of your IP. And letting a few rich retards gamble away their nepobucks on some shitty app is much less intrusive to the fanbase than making your talents stream on twitch

>>107264459
It's just a chain reaction tied to the IP. The more graduate, the less value will HoloEarth be.
They tried being smart about it with Affiliate, but only 2 took that road with Ame being creatividad, which is also the one suggesting the idea in the first place, and Sakamata who said she absolutely got no idea tf is Affiliate even is about. Everyone after shifted back to Graduation.

>>107264560
What. Why is a "VC" company forced to be in the stock market?

>>107250207
Black company more like red company amirite

>>107264812
Because the investors want their money back at some point. So either a company with venture capital has 3 options: sold to another company, go to the stock market or bankruptcy.

Wasn't there some big concert, or was going to be one where some retired members were rumored to appear?
I don't follow much Holo

>>107251146
>Saba debut getting 200ccv to Gura's graduation 180ccv must of blew their minds
Tariffs is a huge issue and it goes beyond that if 2023 started problems. But losing talents like Gura and Aqua who pushed merch out the door must of been like shooting themselves in the foot.

instead of buyback share, they wasted all of the profit money on holoearth instead lmao

>>107264812
There's no "laws" that force them to do it no idea what that guy is talking about.

>>107264938
That's not true the company could buy the VC companies portion if the business back and remain private too.

>>107265395
>Gura and Aqua who pushed merch out the door
The last two years of Gura, she wasn't the main merch seller in Holo.
>>107265543
>That's not true the company could buy the VC companies portion if the business back and remain private too.
lololololololol show me a successful company that did that. Venture investor don't want they money back. They want it back and with substantial gains. Any company that pays their VC before going public or adquired by a bigger company is basically crippling its own future growth and functionality.

>>107266160
Not him but a corporation not being in debt is
>crippling its own future growth and functionality.
interesting observation.

>>107265395
>Tariffs is a huge issue
Cope when shipping costs as much as the merch, that Cover still refuses to fix. Tariffs are small in comparison. Plus, Gura's merch would have still sold out. Tariffs didn't stop this Black Friday from breaking sales records. The leftover EN holofans don't spend as much as the fans who have left.

Meanwhile, Saba releases merch with free shipping and no tariffs. Just received the re-release of Dino Gura, and it didn't have any duties. The tag says made in Vietnam. Cover can avoid the tariffs like other competent companies. Make outside of China and/or in the US for EN, like Omocat, which they've done before.

>>107257475
Holy shit the Japanese are so fucking mad. They're calling for Yagoo to resign and everything.
https://x.com/I8YPORYN/status/1995816966804963456

>>107267349
>Cope when shipping costs as much as the merch, that Cover still refuses to fix. Tariffs are small in comparison.
Not really cope. The prices have doubled from the tariffs. Shit used to just be expensive before, but now it's completely unreasonable.
>Meanwhile, Saba releases merch with free shipping and no tariffs.
Saba released one single merch line with an american company, didn't she?

Though I do agree with the general sentiment that it's still absolutely their fault and that there are alternatives. They need to take international shipping more seriously if they want to actually take advantage of the global audience.

A far, far better example would be Doki who works with GamerSupps as a distributor to ship her products globally for cheap.

>>107251350
>losing any one of them on average is going to have very little impact on the company revenue overall compared to Hololive
have you ever heard of an obscure nijisanji vtuber called Selen Tatsuki?

>>107250207
BUY BUY BUY BUY

>>107250207
Say "Thank you Trump-Sama" for this

>>107269045
by the time of selen shit, the en market was already negligible

>>107266768
Yes, if you use your profit to pay the VC investors you can't reinvest in your product and you became stale.

>>107270463
But then you lose your debt and can use future profits to reinvest

>>107250207
you're an actual retard if you invest after seeing that disastrous financial report this quarter, either sell now or cope till it goes negative opening price

>>107250800
>>107251479
kek this is anything but smart

>>107263037
overvalued, cover is trash

>>107257475
>He is getting shit on hard
>https://x.com/tanigox/status/1995803388781715602
Yagoo keeps making the same empty statement that Hololive will improve with every graduation. After this many graduations it sounds fake and even the fans on social media don't believe it anymore. Tea time with Yagoo won't do any good if management doesn't change and Hololive is making the same mistakes as Nijisanji.

>>107272400
This is like the third legitimate graduation and the reasons behind it are completely different from the first two. What's he supposed to do? Blackmail her to stay?

>>107272471
Fauna made it clear that she would have liked to stay in Hololive, Mumei hinted that she offered numerous suggestions to Cover, and Gura clearly did love Myth and is already struggling as Saba. Ame will likely return to Hololive soon with that nexus gate portal lore but leaving as Dooby for over a year indicates there are major disputes going on behind the scenes. Yagoo is burning huge amounts of money and employees on HoloEarth. Cover has the resources to fix Hololive but they are letting these disputes escalate into graduations. Yagoo acts like it's Cosmic forces causing these graduations but they clearly do have issues with management that have been going on for years.

>>107272471
She could've became an affiliate. You know, the offer only two ex-holos took?

>>107251010
why not? Did something happen?

>>107273261
Is there actually any value to being an affiliate? Before affiliates existed, people believed Coco could come back. Affiliates existing made everyone believe nobody else could come back. But why? Affiliates have never come back either, they just exist nebulously for merch sometimes but also not really? Chloe didn't come back for HoloX and isn't in their merch. What does being affiliate matter?

>>107273006
The fact that you opened your schizo screed with the most legendary liar of them all invalidates the rest. You could have made a point without acting retarded.

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>>107273261
only Ame took it seriously. Chloe only took it because she needed to appear at Shion's graduation one last time.
>>107273006
my cope is that yagoo allowed Kanata to fully explain her reasons so that he can have enough justification to publicly execute the higher ups who has been fucking up the company from the inside. or they'll just make the future graduates shut the fuck up and lie about the real reasons to prevent further reputational damage to the company.

>>107273715
You ever think that Yagoo could be part of the higher ups who have been fucking up the company from the inside?

>>107273758
yagoo looks like a well-intentioned man. it's the likes of that Kaneko faggot who's likely responsible for the fuckups inside the company.

>>107251146
>unsold merch they've had in warehouse since 2023
Just do a yard sale and allow international payments with paypal and all of that will be gone

>>107273820
looking trustworthy is just part of the business

Why don't they just release a new Holo gen?

>>107264507
decent corporation are litteraly illegal (as at punished by suing)

>>107250207
>invest in cover
>graduate
>profit
how illegal would it be ? could their family do it ? and for the retard, you can invest in option, and yes the market is an open casino where you bet on loss/gain

>>107273758
If he is, then none of the talents know about it.

>>107251146
>SIR INVEST ALL IN METAVERSE OR I SUE YOU
>AHHHH IT'S NOT LONGER HYPE IN SILICON VALLEY SELL SELL
>WHY DID YOU INVEST IN HOLOEARTH ???

>>107274227
That is how investing works, yes

>Another one gone due to overwork
Kanata was very dedicated to the idol dream, a real shame, the fact that she doesn't wanna come back at all is kind of fucked.

>>107274016
with the current mood of the fandom, releasing JP7/dev_is3 now would be tone deaf for the company to do. if they're doing it, it's likely around january-february when Kanata's corpse is cold enough.

>>107274334
anon she fucking DEAF

>>107253320
Turns out someone was really negligible.

>>107252276
>Niji has like 15 graduations a year
more like an average of 12-13
>Holo has like 9 since 2020
15 actually, with 11 coming from the last two years alone

>>107274362
They definitely could do an EN5 soon with no problems, but that wouldn't help morale on the JP side at all and ID is totally dead. ID4 seems the most obvious one but it's probably never going to happen just like JP7 never will.

>>107274377
Yes and she worked extremely hard this year because she loves being an idol.
The problem isn't being deaf anyway, its her disease, it fucks up your balance bad sometimes, deaf people can dance still, they just take their queues differently, usually from the vibrations of the music.

>>107274513 (Me)
14 and 10 sorry, I think I counted Kanata twice

>>107252276
Nijisanji has had like 9 this year actually, most of them from EN, a few JP's. 15 a year tho? You're just being a hyperbolic hysterical faggot.
You should be very concerned about how many people Hololive is losing, they don't have the kind of numbers Niji does, a couple of people leaving doesn't hurt them nearly as bad as it does Cover.

>>107274659
i honestly doubt new holo debuts could ever truly replace all the graduates. this company has never seen a superstar since fucking Gura. it might restore their member count, but i'm afraid none of them would ever break into a consistent 5view.

>>107267349
Hey on that Black Friday shit, sure sales are up but if you look at the numbers you'll find that it's because people are spending more on less items and Black Friday weekend had a record high number of grocery purchases.

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>>107250207
>the talents i like keep leaving
>the talents i dislike continue to stay

Cover deserves this, yahoo deserves this

Good. All corpos should tank. They dont do anything but hold talents back with perms autism and collabs no one wants.

>>107251146
>>They also talk about how Cover has to write down 550 million yen in unsold merch they've had in warehouse since 2023.
Where?

>>107250620
Sure its the international market that made it practically synonymous with vtubing in the West and increased its market power and not the million dollars of money sunk on some stupid online game no one wanted

>>107272471
Third?
There's Coco, Sana, Aqua, Shion, Fauna, Mumei, Gura, or did you mean just in JP?

>>107275415
>game no one wanted
>what is a shareholder ?

>>107260391
I mean, there isn't really an easy fix though. After what happened with Kizuna Ai there's no way they'd try to, say, revive the character with a new person behind the model, and while they could maybe successfully sue a couple of the talents who left for using models that are blatantly similar to their old model's aesthetic considering how fucked Japan's legal system is, the community blowback would do as much damage as or more damage than the graduations have. I also assume there isn't really any kind of contract they could get new talents into that would out and out prevent them redebuting. They usually go indie after all, so not like some kind of non-complete clause or what have you would actually be able to lock them out of the industry. Only thing that would come to mind is a contract that locks them into working at a place and prevents quitting, which I...hope is illegal in Japan?

>>107275508
Do you not understand the word legitimate or are you just pretending?

>>107275869
Do you?
Why don't you try defining it?

>>107274842
HoloEN has never been doing better since the graduations. Dev_is have never been as successful as HoloX but they are far from failures and almost everyone in JP took years to actually reach their peak popularity. The question with JP is not whether or not they can get new gens to reach consistent 5-view status, it's whether or not there will be a Hololive in six years for a new Kanata to be around in. There are quite a few Holos who will easily hit 10 year anniversaries, but will there ever be a single new person hired who hits 10 years. Has there been anyone hired in the past 3 years who will hit 10? The original members were losers who accidentally had a big break, from HoloEN onward, most people come in cynical expecting the world and want to cash out quick rather than try to grow and maintain.

>>107276066
you would have to be extremely retarded to join a public traded company to grow and maintain

>>107276066
>Has there been anyone hired in the past 3 years who will hit 10?
Dunno about JP, but Shiori, Fuwamoco, and possibly ERB will be there until the heat death of the universe.

>>107251146
>They point out that the way so many talents have been able to redebut as indies so easily
This is a complete nothing burger
Investors are fucking retards kek

>>107276195
The barrier to get in is high enough that you already have to be a motivated and often cynical individual to begin with where you've decided this is just a stepping stone. If anything, a lot of them get surprised by their lack of success than their surprise success. Numberfags like Koyori or Fuwamoco for example famously overestimate how quick their rise in popularity will be from their debut stream.

>>107275866
the difference between anime characters and vtubers is that people understand that seiyuus are just fulfilling a role so they can be easily replaced, but they do try hard enough for the character to have a consistent seiyuu. with vtubers, you have people projecting their entire personality into a virtual avatar. that's where the whole concept of the "vtuber soul" came from. people react negatively over graduations and replacements because it usually means the "death" of that soul. another huge difference is that seiyuus of anime characters are usually public information while vtubers aren't. i think the Original Sin of vtubing is not really Kizuna Ai or Gamebu's yab, but the fact that corpos hide the identites of the performers behind the vtubers. if we know from the start that Nozomi Kasuga voices Kizuna Ai. fans would had been more welcoming to the seiyuu changes especially if they can properly explain the reason behind it.

>>107275797
Yes no one who matters wanted Holoearth

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>>107250207
kek. Also niji catching strays

>>107276758
If people’s favorites leaving and taking their fans with them can all but kill VICE, it can definitely do the same to Hololive. Just because /vt/ has an over representation of brand loyalists doesn’t mean most people think that way, and shit, compare 2020 to now - a lot of the people who used to only watch Hololive and/or Niji are now watching indies, if they’re even still watching vtubers at all.

>>107277905
I think most oldfag jp nijifags were also indiefags, just because of how much niji collabed with indies and other smaller corpos

>>107276964
Imagine, replacing seiyuus would tantamount to giving series a soft reboot. Like Dr Who being played by different people who imbue each iteration with their own personality.

>>107277905
In JP there's not much of a difference and they've been well integrated for years.
HoloEN by comparison is extremely insular and rarely works with chuubas outside of the corp.


I already forgot where I was going with this but something something fauna gura I don't remember

>>107276964
>if we know from the start that Nozomi Kasuga voices Kizuna Ai. fans would had been more welcoming to the seiyuu changes especially if they can properly explain the reason behind it.
Possibly, but at the same time I doubt it. It'd likely have to develop into a completely different genre of entertainment for that to ever be okay, as people generally get drawn by the model but stay for the personality. Replacing a chuuba would be like replacing a fleshy and that rarely works.

>>107278405
>HoloEN by comparison is extremely insular and rarely works with chuubas outside of the corp
Hence why the only direction they have to go is down, since new gens and big budget events only really appease established fans who hate “dead air” and don’t really bring in new viewership en masse.

>>107278631
Except the new talent brings in the fans from those corps that they then don't collab with.

>>107276964
This would only work if vtubers actually maintained kayfabe. Fuwamoco could be replaced. Kanata could not. People don't come to Kanata for the character, they come for the actor. Kanata's "character" isn't where the gorilla grip and the insecurity about breasts and all that shit comes from, that's the actor's personality.

>>107276964
I would not give a single FUCK about vtubers if there was no "vtuber soul"
No matter how a replacement for Kizuna Ai would be handled, it would never, ever, EVER work because "that" Kizuna Ai is the one people loved, not the new one
Not to say that it can't work, Gamebu's Miria had a VA replacement that worked extremely hard, staying for many years and connecting with many other vtubers, many people loved her. Of course, they didn't think she was the "old Miria", but a new diligent Miria that had a very different personality

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This is way too much of a drop. I'm expecting Cover to buy back some stock or start handing out dividends after the next quarterly report. Which is still 3 months away, giving the last one just came out.
Damn Kanata really must have held some grudge.

>>107250207
>stocks drop
>investors demand
>work increases
>someone leaves
>the cycle repeats

>>107273615
>they just exist nebulously for merch sometimes but also not really? Chloe didn't come back for HoloX and isn't in their merch.
Chloe returned to Shion graduation and Ame was in Zeta birthday even as a png.
So they kinda returned.

>>107278807
You mean the ones you think it’s completely insignificant to lose viewership to?

>>>/vt/numbers

>>107274334
It was over from the moment they went public, I called it. Enshittification comes for every public company and the only ones that hang on do so because they stay private

>>107274837
Well, two of those 9 were involves in a sex harassment scandal that ended in the most gray way possible.

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/biz/ here.
I'm a Cover investor and have 2000 shares at the average price of 1945 JPY (12.49 USD at today's rate).
I'm going to have lunch but ask me anything, I'll answer once I'm back from that in 15 mins or so.

>>107278933
>Fuwamoco could be replaced
by fucking who
Their gimmick is incredibly hard to fill just based on how rare it is. You don't just need twins, but you need twins who can both act cute and be decent streamers in their own right. Simply using close friends wouldn't work since the whole point of twins is the constant syncs and feedback loops.
Sure, there are twin streamers out there but generally don't sing/dance, have constant dead air during streams despite there being two people, and have no experience within the idol community.

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>She knew...

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>Kanata said she kept it secret from all the other members until now and only executives and those employes with a need to know knew about it
>leakers hinted at her graduation and there was a 100k stock dump before the info was released
Confirmed that the holo leaker is not from the Holos themselves but the executive-tier or close to it.
The nips are randomly blaming foreign employees (read: chinese ones).

>>107279552
I'm gonna be naive and assume the basket weaver is being honest here. Based on shareholder reports and meetings does yagoo know how badly going public has fucked the company, and are there any plans for buyback etc. to mitigate further damage?

>>107276066
>Dev_is have never been as successful as HoloX
Regloss is way successful than HoloX.

>>107251146
>They also talk about how investors think HoloEarth is a waste of resources
Why the fuck do jap oldfart in suits love to chase trends way after they die? Some jap companies were still trying to invest in NFTs not that long ago

>>107279556
NTA but there’s definitely vtubers that sit in a similar niche to Fuwamoco content-wise, the main difference is just that they’re YouTube Kids channels

>>107279552
Have considered dumping with how wild the graph has been these past months?

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it is the right time to buy anon

>>107279556
Have you seen OkaKoro's pl? Their sister act was very convincing and they work really well together on screen, so close friends can work as a sisters skit

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/biz/ here.

>>107279601
>does yagoo know how badly going public has fucked the company,
From what we know YAGOO never had a choice, he had to go public. He built Cover as a start-up with "angel investor" money. These kinda organizations want out after a few years, meaning you have to pay the money they invested back. There are usually two ways to do that: sell the company or go public. YAGOO went public to raise money, pay the "angel investors" back and keep some control by buying the majority of public shares for himself. Selling the company would have give Cover to someone else (a rich person ala Elon Musk, a big company ala Sony, etc.)

>>107279930
Yes I have considered it. But it's not money I absolutely need so I think I'll ride this to 0 or get my full amount back down the road, in a few years. I've always defended Cover thinking they always learned from their past mistakes, but at this point I'm quite concerned there's something really wrong with the talent's managers and whichever team directs them.

>>107279997
It can go lower, I'll hold out

>>107280075
Sisters, sure, but there's something special about twins who spend 24/7 together.
I can see okakoro acting as sisters, but they're far too different to be twins. Just look at how often Fuwamoco sync and compare it to literally any other non-twin duo.

>>107280166
I think you’re missing that OkaKoro make for a better, more interesting pairing than fuwamoco in spite of it not being their whole brand. While also not being as explicitly irritating to watch as FWMC

>>107279591
at least it can be narrowed down to a few people so yagoo can easily rat out the fuckers in his ranks.

>>107280227
>Holo v Holo
That's subjective as fuck, anon.
They don't share the same audience, and OkaKoro can't even speak English to fill that niche.
Their merch sales and marketability speaks for itself and they're extremely valuable in their own right.

>>107250207
>>107250620
>>107264507
>>107275415
Inviting institutions like (((Morgan Stanley))) into your board of directors is a death sentence.

>>107264938
or, you know, actually be profitable enough to just pay the investors off and continue along their merry way. That's what's ideally supposed to happen.

>>107266160
retard, her not being #1 doesnt mean she didnt sell an insane amount. And she's still #1 all time, by far

>>107280271
>Their merch sales and marketability speaks for itself and they're extremely valuable in their own right
Maybe for a certain audience, but the idea that fuwamoco with their rigid adherence to kayfabe to a degree that’s straight up aggrevating, and the idea that other vtubers who don’t do that are somehow beneath them, is just absolutely retarded. OkaKoro never had the same level of dumbassery around them

>>107250207
I'm still pissed I lost a lot of money investing in cover
Never again

>>107250207
>Go public
>Company dies
They never learn do they

>>107269377
you are buying yourself into debt anon

>>107280681
>and the idea that other vtubers who don’t do that are somehow beneath them,
How the fuck do you get from someone being unique and valuable with their own niche to other people being "beneath" them?
Fuwamoco can't replace OkaKoro's dynamic. OkaKoro can't replace Fuwamoco's dynamic.

Neither ever could be recast in any capacity.

>>107280987
I say this because I know how Hololive fans are. Like, I could say that an indie vtuber like Snuffy or Chibidoki is unique and valuable in their niche, and I’d basically be told “not like that” because it’s a niche outside of Hololive. So, with that established, fuck it, everyone is interchangeable because it’s all down to merch sales and numbers with Hololive fans, there’s never any room of subjectively enjoying things