>>108640471
I am mostly amused that she doesn't know that Holostars debuted before Luxiem or that Yagoo did everything he could to boost the guys. The 3D lives for Hololive used to be delayed to have more 3D lives for Holostars so they heavily marketed the guys in the early years. Yagoo would love to debut mixed HoloPro gens but it would be difficult to copy Nijisanji without radically changing the Hololive business model.

>>108640471
If you were smart, you can use these troons language against them as calling women female is considered incel speak.

>Males are the most oppressed group in the world
Fixed that for you, OP

>>108640471
Skill issue, the most popular vtuber I'm the world today is male

>>108640471
real male vtubers haven't been tried before

>>108640471
I pray for the deaths of male vtubers and male ecelebs daily. Get rid of them all forever.

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>>108640471
>Male vtubers

>>108640956
>did everything he could to boost the guys
By promoting, he means forcing the girl and boys to collab

Unless you want the Kpop and/or fujo audience (both of which are clinically insane), you as a male vtuber should avoid corpo life like the plague.

Consider it a blessing you're locked out of auditions.

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>>108643232
Yep

>>108640471
Lel

>>108640956
it will always make me chuckle that everywhere else they try to push talented men out of jobs to hire mediocre women, but in vtubing businesses will try to push mediocre men on the backs of talented women. Such a weird reverse world and it all comes down to corporations in a female dominated market stupidly trying to chase the 'female audience' that doesn't exist.

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>>108640471
>take the indie pill bros

>>108640471
>No other agency ever hires male vtubers like Nijisanji does
NeoPorte.

Not sure if this is related but imo it’s the indie male vtubers that are the most annoying. Most of them are just right wingers who complain about woke people and kiss Kirsche’s ass while the others are just very gay femboys that are sometimes entertaining to watch. Sometimes these two categories intersect, Rev being one of them. That doesn’t mean all of them are like this, sure, but it sure does squick me out

The ones in a company are much better but that’s probably because they pick the ones that actually have what it takes to be entertainers, people who actually want to be there and not use it as some sort of agenda. It’s just that sometimes these people slip through the cracks and because of them, people would rather watch a flesh streamer than take a chance on another male vtubers since they act a certain way. Does that make sense? I guess it’s also because male vtubers tend to remind male viewers of themselves and they don’t like that but eg, what do I know?

t. foid who used to watch Holostars, I just felt like saying my piece because I’m bored

>>108640471
male vtubers who say things like this are groomers

>>108640471
They should all kill themselves

>>108643295
Holy Mackeral, these people are insane.

>>108640471
Holostars are the WNBA of vtubing. The fans of both are pretty similar too and just as fucking annoying with their constant victim complex.

Everyone knows why Holostars are treated the way they are and its really fucking annoying when people pretend like its hard to understand. No there's not some huge man hater conspiracy to keep the homos down. They just don't make that much money and are a conflict of interest for the girls that actually make Hololive lots of money.

>>108647548
It's not really the same situation though because Nijisanji exists and demonstrates there is an audience for male vtubers and it does make money. Just something about the way Hololive tries to do it never results in a success. Almost like letting the girls and boys mix is essential for the boys to be successful. I have always thought maybe its because when a female audience can see the boys interacting with girls and the girls enjoying their company it acts as social proof that they aren't just spergs with an anime avatar and can actually talk to girls and make girls laugh and girls actually want to and enjoy being around them and shit.

>>108647941
>Nijisanji exists and demonstrates there is an audience for male vtubers and it does make money
>letting the girls and boys mix is essential for the boys to be successful
females simply have to become accessories for the guys

>>108648041
I dunno about that most of the successful Niji girls I wouldn't associate with any specific male but they almost all interact with them regularly to varying extents. Mito, Lize, Inui, Ange, Chima, Salome, Nui, Lulu, Ars, Ruri, Nozomi etc. They all have healthy fanbases of their own that watch them for them and not because of some association with a specific male someone might ship them with or something.

>>108647941
Its hard to take nijisanji seriously when half of their talents are botted to hell and back and the other half are just literal who's

>>108640471
male envtubers are the DEI slop of vtubing. nobody wants them but corpos keep ignoring feedback and forcing them on you, manipulating ways and trying to trick you in to watching the shitters WE DONT WON'T EM

>>108648355
Regardless of what you believe about bots or not, the financial statements are there and its undeniable its making money hand over fist. Monetarily speaking its factual to say Nijisanji is the most successful vtuber agency in the word.

A lot of male youtubers are entertaining and get plenty of traffic without any avatar or camera at all, just voiceover. You're just asking to gather the dregs of society by vtubing.

>>108640471
>Cover does not promote Holostars at all
>one of the recent Official shilling stream had 8 consecutive segments shilling the homo merchs
lol

>>108647941
The transaction of viewership and power is extremely one-direction in coed collabs. The man takes, the woman loses.
Women are fine, better off actually, if they don't collab with men. They suffer losses if they collab with men and have no downsides to not doing so. Men need women as accessories and social proof or else they look like lame incels that successful women ignore, but give nothing back in the exchange.

>>108647403
No one is judging Holostars on their own merit, let's be real. The only thing they represent to the average denizen of this board is a threat to the purity of their Hololive experience.

>>108648631
I think this really has to do with the dynamic and relationship the streamer has with their audience. I've never felt anything negative towards the men in Doki collabs for example.

>>108648660
I mean you're touching on something real, but it's not really the fan's fault that that is true.
Holostars are basically positioned as a product that has to poison and damage the super-successful main product to grow. They're fundamentally incompatible. If Holostars had everything they want, full integration into Hololive and Holofes etc. etc., those things wouldn't exist because the core appeal would be destroyed. They can't coexist with the very thing they depend on. It's an absurd contradiction that leaves them in limbo hell as the fan's in-house enemy to be resisted and hated.
Having them be in the same company was an unfixable mistake from day 1. Cover should have put them into a totally separate production group with zero public connection.

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>men where this a single industry they don't dominate

>>108648694
There will always be a set of hardcore unicorns that draw the line at male collabs regardless of how non-threatening they are. But once you accept that audience as lost I think you are right in saying that a significant portion of how damaging it is past losing the unicorn audience depends a lot on how the girl behaves in such collabs. As was pointed out previously there are plenty of Niji girls that manage to be successful in their own right. So long as you keep it professional and friendly and don't start pandering to hetshippers with flirting or whatever there are still a lot of guys who will be able to maintain a parasocial relationship and tolerate or even enjoy interactions with males.

>>108648807
I'd argue you don't really gain much by alienating the idolfag/gachikoi/unicorn audience. So you have to have another reason to want to do it; sincere friendship with a male vtuber, or whatever. Which, hey, that's fine, completely valid. But doing it for no reason because you're just stumbling around blindly in your career is kinda retarded. Know what you're doing and make an informed decision.
And of course, it matters less for some creators like Doki who is just loud funny semi-pro gamer girl, she probably has lost a few fans from male collabs but far less than someone in Hololive or a typical indie vtuber might.

>>108648695
I think crossgender collabs was an attempt at emulating successful fleshstreamer groups, but they failed to understand the sheer autism and loneliness of their core audience
But yeah people who don't understand the dynamic really do underestimate the loss in viewership when that fleeting illusion of parasocial companionship is irrevocably broken. They think "it can't be that bad", but this industry is ruthlessly competitive.

>>108648807
Cover is ridiculously risk-averse in the first place, so I don't think they trust the talents to behave themselves 100%. imo to have regular male collabs, you need to give up all gfe appeal, which is a hard ask even for vtubers that don't explicitly do gfe. and like said before, what you actually do gain from these male collabs is questionable, so it's a difficult situation.

>>108648695
The only way you're possibly getting that is with a new CEO. as long as Yagoo remains as CEO, Holostars shall remain.

>>108648886
>but they failed to understand the sheer autism and loneliness of their core audience
That' a cruel way to put it, not 100% correct but also not 100% incorrect.
You're discounting the value people find in an all-female environment; such an environment is extremely unique in entertainment. It's misogynistic that people can't even IMAGINE why men (and women! Tons of female hololive fans) might enjoy watching cute/funny/smart/cool women interact with each other without the presence of a man. Nobody ever questions the same thing about male creators who collab exclusively with other men.
I don't know if you're a woman; if you are, you might want to examine whether you've internalized the idea that women have nothing to offer without a male to dominate the conversation and content.
>>108648953
Oh, don't consider me someone who's still concerned with holostars as an active problem. As an engaged Hololive fan, they've mostly been a non-factor since about early 2024, unless your favorite is Shiori or ERB. They're extremely easy to ignore these days, which was painfully untrue in 2022 and 2023.

>>108648886
I find it hard to believe Cover is ever going to majorly change the status quo, it would be monumentally dumb from a business strategy perspective I think. The way I look at it being the premier agency that unicorns can for the most part feel safe watching is their only real defensible competitive advantage. There is a significant audience of people that will spend heavily on girls who do not interact with males and refuse to watch anything involving them. If they give that up they just become yet another vtuber agency with nothing particularly special to distinguish themselves from any other vtuber agency.

>>108648979
>women have nothing to offer without a male to dominate the conversation and content
That's not what I said. Anyway, you're giving a very charitable interpretation of what is probably just male jealously. A quick search through the archives will tell you that most of outrage during mixed collabs are centered around shipping and whether the collabers are flirting or not. I'm not even particularly pro-male collab, but I think the way that people obsessively curate whether someone has EVER collabed with a male says a lot about the nature of the discourse we're dealing with here.

>extremely unique in entertainment
This is just simply not true. In fact, most content creation spaces I've seen are mono-gender simply due to the nature of gendered interests. I'd even go as far to say that mixed-gender spaces are probably in the minority.

>>108649096
>A quick search through the archives will tell you that most of outrage during mixed collabs are centered around shipping and whether the collabers are flirting or not.
I'm sorry anon, but if you're trying to gauge what this fanbase actually thinks based on the vicious outsider shitposting attacks that happen on 4chan when your oshi collabs with a man (often called "cuckposting"), you're far too credulous.
Some people really hate hololive for a variety of reasons, and they gleefully take opportunities like that to attempt to destroy a girl and her fans.

>>108649127
That was my immediate thought lol, if you are looking at here, its pretty patently obvious the majority of posters that act like they are "shipping" the male and female talents whenever they interact are trolling and shit stirring. Hetships in general aren't that popular in vtubers even in companies that allow male/female interaction. The most popular ships almost always end up being yuri or yaoi and hetships are a minority interest.

>>108649127
>>108649228
Yeah but people do it because it successfully gets a reaction, showing that it is a real concern about their fans. If fans really didn't care about this aspect it wouldn't be so consistently shitposted about. Shipping isn't the main concern here, it's the fact that a substantial portion of the vtuber fanbase are jealous of any man they see getting close to their female oshi.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for male collabs, nor am I saying that this behavior needs to be eradicated or anything. I personally don't hold such views, but people are free to watch whoever they want, and it's an implicit understanding between a vtuber and their viewers too when they choose to not do male collabs. I just think that particular characterisation of the distaste for male collabs in the community is too naive.

>>108640471
>I don't know if I can call it sexist or not because it is for business reasons
I guarantee you if the genders were reversed, these same folks would be shouting at the rooftops about how oppressed women are

>>108649385
It's multifaceted. Is there jealousy? Yeah, sure. Is there unease at the enjoyable all-female environment of hololive being disrupted and changed? I promise you, yes.
Another factor: A lot of male vtubers just aren't pleasant, and it's not pleasant to see your oshi interact with them. I mean take Jurard for example. The dude's entire personality (by all accounts, and I believe it, a "character" or gimmick he's doing because he's intended to be the foolish heel who gets hoist by his own petard) is unwatchable. It's viscerally unpleasant to see your oshi interact with the vtuber persona he presents, and probably makes you question her judgement, wondering why the hell she's subject herself and you to that.
All of these factors and more go into it.

All I'm arguing for here is that it's equally naïve and reductive to reduce all displeasure or dislike of male vtuber collabs to "you're just a jealous lonely autist".

Women being vulnerable behind an avatar = cute. Men being vulnerable behind an avatar = megapussy of highest order.

>>108649438
I can accept a portion of that logic, but the fallout from Nijisanji's mixed collabs affected some of their very inoffensive male members too. I personally cannot understand what non-jealously benefits a strict monogender space brings to the table, especially in this context of content creation. It feels like we've gone decades back in terms of gender relations.

I do not want any males around my cute anime girls, thanks

>>108649385
I'm not sure if most of the fact that it gets a rise out of people is down to jealousy as much as people wanting to defend their oshis reputation. In a community where the suggestion that you were flirting on stream with a male is a highly damaging accusation it only makes sense people would want to correct the record on their oshi of people as re lying about what actually happened in a stream.

>>108649554
>I personally cannot understand what non-jealously benefits a strict monogender space brings to the table, especially in this context of content creation. It feels like we've gone decades back in terms of gender relations.
I mean don't we once again arrive at people being unable to imagine that women-to-women interactions, and women-only content, has unique value? Where is that even coming from? Women have unique voices, unique perspectives...
Men dominate the streaming sphere. If a man is interacting with a female streamer, 95% of the time he's railroading the content and she's along for the ride as an observer. I just can't understand people who don't understand that some, apparently a lot actually, of people find unique appeal and charm to all-female interactions, all-female groups.

Sometimes it feels like I'm taking crazy pills, because I know there are Holostars or Nijisanji-fan women on the internet vociferously making the argument that Hololive women shouldn't make all-female content because... reasons, because somehow that's worse, while also firmly believing themselves to be feminists

>>108640471
>WAHHH why aren't there female NFL players its not fair its so fucking sexist amirite u guyz??
That's what this fucking loser sounds like. Men are good at some things, women are good at others. This dumb faggot should get a real job and leave the vtubing to the girls

>>108640471
>23 views
how the fuck did you find this?

>>108647941
kys homobegger

tldr CGDCT is based. if there was a male gen that were basically Nichibros, most people would be okay with them, but unfortunately male vtubers are sexpests and think too highly of themselves.

>>108640471
Male vtubing are like the wnba, they crying about sexism and yet nobody watch them even after being heavily promoted, case in point the 2023 new years countdown.

>>108649637
>highly damaging accusation
And why is it highly damaging?

>>108649649
I'm not saying that women should be forced to interact with men. There is plenty of women-to-women content in a mixed-gender stream, but people will still throw a fit. Does the stream need to be entirely free of men for it to have value as women-only content? Can a woman not express her perspective or talk to another woman in the presence of another man?
It's one thing if free of pressure, female content creators choose not to collab with men, but that isn't the case here. Look at how much shit ERB and Shirori get for the Homostars collabs. I'd say they're specifically avoiding them to prevent fan backlash.

>95% of the time he's railroading the content
I'll argue that this is an unsubstantiated assumption based off sexist assumptions. There's no reason why men would dominate any mixed collab unless you believe that all men are misogynistic pigs who want to silence and control women. I'd argue that popularity, compatibility and personality have a much stronger role in how the dynamics of a collab play out.

Disclaimer again, I'm not pro-mixed collabs, but I also recognise that this is due to my monkey brain not liking it, and I'm comfortable with the status quo from a purely selfish perspective.

>>108649746
Isn't that basically the holostars?
Despite all the whining on /vt/, there hasn't been a single case of them actually sexpesting anybody.
Or are they disqualified because of fujobaiting? I can't keep up with this stuff anymore.
>>108649649
While generally true on the top end of fleshies, I still find it strange how militant some people get that everybody HAS to stick to same sex interactions, even if they have no interest in watching anybody involved.

>>108649900
are you fucking insane? Do you not see the little shota homo constantly inserting himself everwhere? Or Dinofag literally saying he wants to fuck your oshi?? There are tons of instances, Cover just has better tardwranglers than most

>>108649649
This. Just watch any mixed gender stream, the girls get absolutely steamrolled in every decision and in all gameplay. They get talked over constantly. It's just human nature, thats how it is. And its not a fun viewing experience.