Even with solid production, indies still don't reach that level, and it's not about money, it's about lacking the talent and training to pull it off.Corpos like Hololive don't just bankroll shows. They filter hard, then polish what they pick, and run their talents through real coaching and rehearsal pipelines, which is why they produce actual stage performers instead of just streamers with a mic.Most indies are self-taught, and no amount of fancy production can hide shaky vocals or flat stage presence. Equipment doesn't substitute for real training.
>>109535365You are retarded. It's just about money. The problem is that a large venue will ask for proof that you can actually fill it up OR an advance payment if you can't give proof. Corpos like Cover can give believable estimates about ticket sales, but Indies can't. So if Saba wanted a venue with just the 4000 seats of the KiarIna concert she would need to make an advance payment of ~$100*4000 to secure the venue. I guarantee you she will NOT pay $400.000 for that, even though she probably could.
>>109535365>words words wordsI'll just assume you're full of shit and randomly chimping like the sister you are.Why are numberbantus pissing and shitting themselves this hard this time?
>>109535661I probably would've been on your side before, but after watching a ton of indie vtubers lately, it's obvious the gap isn't just about budget. Sure, money and production quality matter, but even if you handed them those on a silver platter, most indies still wouldn't be on the same level. The difference comes down to polish, discipline, and professional training, things corpo vtubers usually have and indies consistently don’t.
>>109535365Outside of Japan nobody cars about vtuber music, or concerts. Some people might pretend to car because their preferred background noise has some kind of weeb idol dream, but it's not real. We don't car. We don't watch streams for this shit. It's just completely out of place, and irrelevant to streaming.
>>109536103then why does every single corp and even rich issues try to pivot to it so hard and desperately? even the ones who screeched about how they are NOT LE IDOLS, JUST LE TWITCH NORMALWHORES (ie vshojo and cuck connect) tried or are trying to make concerts happen
>>109536103>>109536137battle of the century!!I love going to the zoo and watch monkeys throw shit at each other.
>>109536137Because they're retarded. They look at what's happening in Japan, and think they have to do the same thing because that's what the big vtubers do.Phase is a good example of this. They set their company on fire to protect a con that nobody cars about. They just want a con because the big corpos do it. Absolute retardation.
>>109536103Look, I get that not everyone's chasing the "idol" dream. They're full-time streamers, no singing involved. But trust me, they'll have tons of outfits, still slap on a 3D model, throw an idol concert, all just to copy Hololive, and act like they're different. No exceptions.
>>109535365Indies could do better than Shiorin
>>109536248What does Hololive have to do with idols?
>>109535996>The difference comes down to polish, discipline, and professional trainingAnd for people who do not believe this, just look at Shioris MV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX1ZCKJ67dcDo you think she would have gotten this far as an indie without the pressure? Never.
>>109536103>Some people might pretend to carI'M A BIG CAR!>brrrrrrrrrrrrrr brrrrr brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr vwwwwmmmmmmm
>>109536409We don't car, lil bro.
>>109536103>Outside of Japan nobody cars about vtuber music, or concerts.That is an exaggeration since there are idol fans in the EN vtuber market but they are a tiny niche. Nijisanji EN couldn't make it work since their fan base was more casual and almost none of them would spend hundreds/thousands of dollars traveling to a physical venue for a concert. On a financial level Hololive EN works at the moment but it's highly dependent on the economy and not selling 10% of the tickets at the last HoloEN concert is an ominous sign. Indie vtubers in the EN market have trouble with large physical concerts but in the long term (3 to 10 years) the same will likely be true for Hololive. Idol culture (both good and bad) is unique to the Japanese market and is much harder to replicate that in the western market.
>>109536137Because most vtubers are retarded and think if the bigger company can do it, so can they, and thus develop that illusion. And it's a thing that generalizing will prove there are different points that can't be generalized. The musical part of vtubers is one of the backbones of the industry, but it is true. Most people in the audiences don't really care too much; obviously, they aren't going to yell back at them for trying to do so. But in some cases it is clear that it's not what they want from them.
>>109535365What Indies mainly lack is money. Money lets you hire a support network of experienced staff, more money lets you keep these staff on payroll for all your events.
>>109535365Those glowsticks are fake. At least the indies are breaking into real venues.
>>109536137They are all grifters. Mint's sloppy concert just happened and it was a black eye for all indie vtubers because it proves you can wing everything as long as you hire talents related to Hololive.
top one looks really out of place. it's just some trust fund brat with a costume bowing rapidly like a see-saw.while the bottom one is lowkey, but probably sounds great with intricate vibes, and possibly gosling to the max
>>109537490Wait, you didn't catch Mint's concert? You a poser or something?
>>109537490Yes it's AI bro the people moving light sticks ai the girl is also not there its a guy with mocap and the song it doesn't even exist.Yes I am not schizophrenic
>>109535365nah it's definitely money. cover has invested heavily to cultivate the premium perception and secure premium venues. if this same exact performance happened on a lesser stage you would not care. the unfortunate reality is that no amount of coaching and rehearsal can buy access to mindless fans.
>>109535365Mint finally figured out how to wear a dress. Cool.
>>109535365>it's about lacking the talent and training to pull it off.I would say it's more about networking and the mental map people form to find stuff to watch. Corpos are easier to understand than dozens of random indies, only some of whom you watch. They can do the idol stuff just as well probably, but there's no infrastructure for it yet.
>>109535661the advance payment thing is why NijiEN's -8 was so fucking funny
>>109535365>talent3 people in en can sing and it's pre recorded. They can put literally anyone up there and you will accept it
>>109537143Unfortunately it's more than that.Money is one thing, but the experienced staff part is separate but also important. A lot of bigger chuubas are too focused on the whole "giving a good stream" part that they end up neglecting the fact that the best streams in the world won't really matter if they can't fund themselves or bring in new viewership through sponsors or advertising. It's really common for liggers/biggers to have money and not spend it properly (bao), or have the viewers to MAKE it but not know how to monetize/deal with sponsors/merch (mint pre-densetsu, snuffy until recently)It's why managers are actually important, but also why it's so hard to find a good one that isn't scamming them themselves. Doki is the ideal. She's terrible with money and will blow through all of it if left unchecked, but she knows this and thus hired staff to help her both get more and help budget/schedule/organize her projects.
>>109543586You don't have to sing well. You need to be able to entertain thousands of people enough that they will buy a ticket to shake their penlights for you.Not like you would get it, you poor liggers will never get to know this feeling.But hey, at least you can listen to your oshis talk about themselves being cumdumps at conventions! >>109520817
>>109543586>things that didn't happen
>>109535365>and run their talents through real coaching and rehearsal pipelines>Equipment doesn't substitute for real training.All those things require money, so yes it's a budget issue.
>>109535365top is soullessbottom is pure jazz soul
>>109536325What do you mean?
>>109536623>and not selling 10% of the tickets at the last HoloEN concertThose tickets were sold, but people were trying to resell them.
>>109547516No, they had unsold regular tickets as well
>>109547599At some point it was "sold out" and then 1 week before the actual concert they released more tickets. How does that work?
>>109547683Cover held them back.
>>109547741It's Ticketmaster, they do this even with huge artists.
>>109547912They didn't just pop up on Ticketmaster. Cover announced additional tickets would be made available on August 11th.
>>109547912This system is shitty, why do they allow people to resell their tickets and put them up for a higher price?
>>109547599Don't forget all the tickets that got bought up by brats that never got claimed
>>109548258yea i was looking for people to take it off my hands for free, ended up with 2 extra unused tickets still at the end
>>109548135Because ticketmaster is involved in the reselling process too. They're double dipping
Why are corpos like vspo and phase trying to do idol stuff like concerts and gfe? I don't get it, specially in vspo's case
>>109535365I'm like 80% convinced that holotards don't even watch their vtubers and just waste their time shitting on indie vtubers instead.
>>109535714Mint's flop concert the other day
>>109545955There's a reason people compare indie concerts to stuff like HoloFes and BD/AFO. It's the same reason the only person in HoloEN who gets to have sololives is Mori Calliope
>>109555126Didn't it sell out twice? Sounds successful to me
Why do indies shit the bed? Because corps run 2 tier system since forever to sweep competitive adv from both sides1. Burn the untrainable corpses with 100h+/m organized streaming2. Funnel the funds to subsidy the trainable girls who have 15h/m streaming + fulltime training to run events
>>109545955look at this guy who thinks you can have stage presence in a pre recorded thing
>>109535365Jesus Christ, that's a generational mogging.
>>109535996It's about " connection ". If you accept this Vtuber's commission may be some company won't work with you as example.
If anyone work with Doki, they may in greylist to Niji who don't want to work with. So we have limit person who willingly to work for indies even some company may hate them.
>>109535661Saba wouldn't do a concert on her own unless someone paid her first
>>109536103CAAAAAAAR! DO NOT REDEEM THE CONCERT!
Presented for your consideration: an indie concert: https://youtu.be/uU8E2Cr0Ryk
>>109555803You can, anon.As far as the audience is concerned, it's the same screen whether it's live or not.
>>109557632>pre-recorded performancesThis thread is talking about live venue concerts
>>109535365Is American Jazz not common in South East Asia? You wouldn't see anyone in Hololive breakdancing on stage during a jazz performance.
>>109535365You chose biboo to argue talent and training?lol
>>109558001It's not just that. Oshispark would have no problem finding a larger venue with a 1000+ seats for a proper idol concert, they've already produced FantomeThief and Virtual Vacation, they know it's more than possible. But Mint herself wanted a small jazz show in a small atmospheric venue and it still sold out in minutes, twice. Comparing them to Hololive stuff is a) retarded, b) disingenuous, c) a sign of insecurity since it automatically puts Mint into a position of someone who directly competes with Hololive, the position which she never took upon herself
>>109553149>>109537204>>109537490wait were aiboos and mintcoordies the actual biboo haters? That's wild. sisters till death i suppose. im fallin for the bait toenite
>>109558768I am a hater. I am not an aiboo, I'm not a biboo hater. I just vent here
>>109535365Indies will never compare because being "free to do anything" is the core principle of their existence, as opposed to managed corporate talents, and what this actually means is freedom from any sort of work that is not immediately mandatory to their financial wellbeing. You can't expect an indie to take singing and dancing lessons on her own. Unless that's her goal (it never is because nobody actually has the passion for idol life) it just won't happen. Being a graduated indie is retirement, nobody does that to increase their work load. It's the simple truth.
>>109559373That is a LOT of projection, anon
>>109535661Fpwp
>>109547683Cover likely disputed many of the tickets purchases for scalping and got them back up as unsold in time for the concert.
>>109557632Mint should have used the people behind this one.
>>109535714Why are you acting so hostile? Just because Mint's concert bombed doesn't mean lashing out at someone else is going to fix it.
>>109535365Maybe I'm weird, but that's exactly why I prefer indies. High production values and training makes them feel like an actual celebrity, it lacks the soul one person in their basement can bring. This isn't even specific to chuubas or even vtuber corpos, I've noticed that I enjoy a channel's videos a lot less when they buy a proper mic or a DSLR to record, the one I specifically hate is when they hire an editor, makes it feel like every other video instead of some guy's unique vision
>>109536137Combination of good money and prestige in events. Though it's a lot riskier since they have a smaller audience and can't fill out a massive venue like Holo could.
>>109548135If scalpers can turn a profit on a non-essential product, then it means it was underpriced
>>109535365didn't mark&pliers prove this wrong with his movie being the number 1 for several weeks?seems to me that indies can beat corpos, but they wont receive mainstream acknowledgement except to seethe
This entire thread:>HERE'S HOW SABA CAN STILL BEAT HOLOLIVE or>DOESN'T COUNT
>>109537204>Hololive concerts are attended by literal robots argument is now getting posted unirronically instead of as a jokeHoloantis are fucking losing it ever since Saba and Nimi can't get a single win anymore.
>>109535365>Most indies are self-taught, and no amount of fancy production can hide shaky vocalsThere is no indie singer/band that is successful? fucking retard
Yeah it's hard to pull out such a trash show
>>109561348Based on Mint's latest concert, it seems indie vtubers still have a ways to go to match the polish and experience of a corpo-backed show.
>>109558001If Hololive ever did a jazz-themed concert, it would be far more exciting and polished than anything Mint could throw together for sure.
>>109536623>almost none of them would spend hundreds/thousands of dollars traveling to a physical venue for a concertThis is probably the most important point. The English speaking world is spread out over different countries. It's easy in Japan where you can take a train to the concert from almost anywhere in the country.
>>109535365>>109535661>it's not about money, it's about lacking the talent and training to pull it off.>it's just about the moneyNo, it's not about anything like this.It's mostly about organization and network.You need someone who is able to hire the right persons to execute correctly the stuff you want. You need someone who schedule correctly and pick up the talents, deciding the date and making them agree to do it.Indies hardly can do that not because of money, but because they mostly are lazy ass egoistic faggots, who just work for themselves, not for a community, so they cannot really decide for others and if someone says "no" you cannot really pull them in.
Holy shit this is cringe. I draw the line on idolfaggotry regardless of corpo status. Vtubers should stick to playing games and chatting
>>109558001https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpiI2jlfC90
>>109535365what if i don't give a shit about any of this
>>109563389why are you posting in here, retard
>>109535661>I guarantee you she (Saba) will NOT pay $400.000 for that, even though she probably could>Marine paid just as much (if not more) for her MVs - which definitely didn't earn anywhere nearly as much backSo even though both rarely stream, that's the difference between someone with and without passion...
>>109564054Making MVs is more of an investment. They usually earn that money back through other revenue streams.
>>109563471in where
>>109557632>>109560610Mint needs production that can track her dancing. This looks like warudo with a decent stage background it is not much of an improvement over the jazz show
Mint has only participated in a live idol vtuber concert twice. She is good we know what she is capable of live. The jazz vibe is a jazz vibe.
>>109537143I thought indies were supposed to be richer since they keep all their income, so why does the content still look so low budget? Do they just not care enough about their fans to reinvest it?
>>109566636fair point
>>109566348Phase Connect girls practically dragged the show across the finish line and made it enjoyable the first time. When Mint was the main focus this time, it was painfully underwhelming.
>>109566636Indies take home more money since they don't have a corpo cut, but corpos provide access to better facilities, training, support staff, etc. to the vtuber for free*. (at the cost of the cut the corpo takes)
>>109566777oh, so corpos have major benefits that indies generally just dont have access to?
>>109566769what is blud blabbering about
>>109566809It’s not the corpos themselves, but the girls they hire who tend to be top-tier. Like investors backing promising projects, corpos only bring in proven or high-potential talent.Comparing Mint to Hololive talents is basically unfair because she couldn't even pass their standard, let alone compete in areas they dominate.
>>109566809For the most part, yes. That's the tradeoff.
come to phase, minto. you will get to do as much idol stuff as you can handle
>>109567442vshojo ruined that possibility unfortunately
>>109567541There is a timeline after Mint comes back she waits a few months longer before selling herself to vshojo and pitching the idol project. There is a timeline where she records with Phase as a free agent and enjoys her time with them, and decides to pitch the group to them instead of going with the familiar faces of vshojo she thought she could trust. Phase would have jumped all over it.She bet on the wrong horse again.
>>109567977>chud connect>fanbase full of /pol/fags who dox and harass their talentsShe dodged a bullet there.
>>109568045Not really. There are girls there grinding and developing the idol side of the company while the /pol/ side of the company are too bust doing react slop and baiting twitter engagement, and they have full backing from the company. It is honestly pretty much what she was always looking for
>>109568105Clara, one of Phase Connect's best singers who wanted to do idol activities, got doxxed and harassed out of the company.
>>109568136That is unfortunate, yes.However, the idol side of Phase is here to stay and the girls who have bought into it and pushing for it will continue to lay the foundation down and fight the tide of the /pol/ side of the company.Clara's character death will not be in vein, either. The girls who are pushing for idol stuff will keep going and try to showcase Phase Connect in a better way one step at a time.
>>109567442What you see from any Phase Connect idol stuff, it has Mint's finger prints already on it.Lia has been credited by Lumi, Dizzy etc as being the driving force for Phase 3D idol stuff and the one who saved that side of the company from being forever stuck in 2D karaoke purgatory. Lia is from the Mint coaching tree, so to speak.
>>109567977And then phase fans doxx her and harass her until she kills herself for being a hard leftyThank fucking god that timeline never happened
>>109569175the idol journey is overcoming the odds and hardshipsit isn't easy. i commend those phase girls who are trying everything in their power to walk the idol road
>>109562904>Vtubers should stick to chattingFixed for you, leave the games to ACTUAL streamers
>>109569298>the idol journey is overcoming the odds and hardshipsYou just described Mint's past 6 years.
>>109569391I wouldn't call cozying up to Luca for popularity exactly challenging.
>>109569445NIJISEETHE
>>109569445Nijisister didn't just drop her mask, she threw it on the ground LMAO
>>109569298It's a narrative about overcoming hardship. It should not be defined by actual hardship and inability to perform.
>>109571832who said anything about inability to perform?also the easy path often leads to nowhere. be a trailblazer and create a path where there wasnt one.
>>109559373>nobody actually has the passion for idol lifeWho hurt you, anon?
>>109535365oof
>>109535365>which is why they produce actual stage performersYes, please tell me why there is a very clear divide between stage preformers and streamers. Kaela for example has zero stage presence, but is a passable streamer.
>>109559373The girls like it. It's a good reward system for them.
>>109535365The best vtuber singers are indie though, Kiara and biboo can't sing.
>>109579992their are some decent corpo singers but you talk about em and people get really defensive of, you know
>>109579992the best vtuber dancers are corpo, tho
>>109584073Well yeah because they're the only ones who can actually afford it.
>>109535365When I was in high school I used to play Tennis every weekend. I got pretty good. I even started playing tournaments in the 4.0 league. For context, the highest league is 5.0. I thought I was good. Then one day I got a chance to meet a pro who was ranked in the low 2000’s. He whipped my ass and pretty much everyone else at that meet and greet. I asked him why he was so much better. He asked me how often I played Tennis. I said pretty much every night and then an additional 6-8 hours on the weekend. He said he plays tennis for 8 hours every single day. I could never beat him because what I did for fun, he did for work. Even when he wasn’t playing tennis he still did things to help him in tennis. And that’s what he did all the time. Like wise, vtubers who do this on the side will never be able to match the experience of a corporate vtuber who does this for a living and does so many behind the scenes preparation for their streams. Sure, the corporate affiliation helps, but being in a corporation means you are already the best of the best. Now add to that the experience factor and there’s no feasible way to catch up, except maybe if you’re like IronMouse and literally don’t have a life outside of streaming.
>>109584780it doesnt cost anything to learn how to sing and dance
>>109584977...Anon, I-
>>109584933>And that’s what he did all the time. Like wise, vtubers who do this on the side will never be able to match the experience of a corporate vtuber who does this for a living and does so many behind the scenes preparation for their streams.I know you think you have something here but most corpo chuubas don't even work full time even including homework.And the work they DO do has nothing to do with singing or dancing.
>>109584977Getting training and coaching by experienced professionals costs money.
>>109585036They’re salaried, anon. They’re always working.
There is levels to it. Even if you know how to dance, it is not like singing where you learn lyrics to a familiar song and sing and it will sound pretty good. Proper corpo vtuber dancing you usually pay for a choreographer holo and phase both do this, then you need to pay for a dance studio for a day or two to learn it, then you need to rent the recording studio and you have to nail your dances in the allotted time you rented the space for.Or you pay for a skinwalker to do it all for you
>>109585147"always working" doesn't mean all of those hours are spent practicing or even doing anything related to singing and dancing.
>>109585297Yeah, and how many hours a day do you think a regular indie vtuber practices singing and dancing? Exactly, the experience is going to be vastly different when the corporate vtuber can afford to take time off to do nothing but practice when there is a show or event that needs them to do so.
>not knowing most of their views are bottedngmi
>>109585602Anon, how many hours a day do you think Raora practices singing and dancing? Biboo? Cece?
>>109585046Not to mention the difficulty of finding those sorts of people in the west. Not like there will be expert jp idol choreograph dance instructions at the nearest dance studio in Kansas, or jp vocal instructors at the local recording studio in Idaho.
>>109584933>>109585036You're both right and wrong. There are chuubas who invest heavily into idol reps like Bae, Kiara and IRyS, and there are those who take it easy and then crunch a lot right before big concerts like everyone else
>>109584933Ironmouse somehow manages to be in the top 1% of vtuber performers even with all the health stuff holding her back.
>>109587832ironmouse is skinwalked, and her vocals are always pre-recorded and edited
>>109587885Please, you're just salty Mint doesn't even come close to her.
>>109587926Either ironmouse is lying about being so terminally ill that she is mostly bedridden and can't leave her house, or she's being skinwalked. Which one is it?
