Anti thread do not post in here
True togetons use PCG

>>116136220
To be realistic the guy on the left should have a man bun, a Leafy is here chin,
30 tattoos, and work at a coffee shop in Seattle.

>filename
Yeah I'm not posting in this one. She's on a twitter bender anyway conflict baiting and arguing with politics-curious users with <10 followers, this isn't what I want to support.

Why doesn't toge have a tranny music producer like Jelly?

>>116136220
Why do newfags not know what snowflake means?

>>116136253
>She's on a twitter bender anyway
You could at least post the funny ones so that we have something to discuss

Is she just going to keep throwing the word "libel" around and hoping it makes people engage with her less rather than egging them on?

I didn't take the menhera shit seriously and I found out the hard way. She doesn't just delete trolls leaving mean comments, she'll delete and ban you for leaving a comment saying that disagree with how she framed something. I thought people were being dramatic about how she was when people have different opinions to her. It's not like I was a random new person, I've participated in her chat on stream, and I did the same in her last life, and just like that, secretly blocked forever over nothing. It wasn't even about anything that serious either, just a widely disputed thing that can be hard to get a grasp of, I even said that if I got it wrong, I got it wrong, but if you don't agree with her, you're just a radicalised right-wing troll. This is not a serious person.

>>116136616
What did you say?

>>116136616
Specify what this thing was. Either she really has lost it over nothing, or you're a dumbass.

>>116136706
>>116136788
I made a comment in response to what she said about gamergate. I said that I could see why something like that would cause a stir in the context of gaming journalism and that there is a lot of biased accounts of it. It wasn't a long paragraph or anything like that. She said it wasn't about journalism, I said that I believed it was. If I was wrong about the details, I wouldn't mind being actually educated.

>>116136821
Was it on youtube or twitter?

>>116136821
Not one single person has given a fuck about games journalism since like 2012

>>116136842
Youtube, on Saturday's VOD

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>>116136821
I mean, she's basically right. She's also a millennial so she grew up in the era where shit like this happened and where magazines and TV were absurdly biased (especially towards Japanese content, which made all weebs super aware of said bias).
source for picrel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_Runner#Reception_and_controversy
From the perspective of most people who were weebs and gamers back in the day, gaming journalism was always super heavily biased towards big western triple A companies and GamerGate people throwing a tantrum over some retarded literallywho indie devs had less to do with journalism than with anything else.

>>116136851
They exist to give a veil of credibility to award shows where the industry backed by NGO gives itself prizes for making games nobody wanted to play.

>>116136928
Who the fuck wants to discuss idpol from 2012? It's fucking nuts, this is beyond politics. This more like social media addiction, being righteous about it gives you some kind of cover. It's fucking sad, this isn't vtubing.

Did we find out what happened in may 2024 or was it all just fugazi

>>116136928
Your example seems to be gamepro doing the right thing journalistically, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with it. Bias is also not the issue, every reviewer has biases, they're allowed to prefer Western games or whatever. The issue is conflicts of interest.

>GamerGate people throwing a tantrum over some retarded literallywho indie devs had less to do with journalism than with anything else.
This is just revisionism. Gamergate started as gossip threads on /v/ and would have stayed that way if it weren't for the insane response from journalists to constantly escalate.

>>116137427
It is gamepro doing the right thing, but it was also well known that publishers and journalists had this sort of relationship where they relied on advertising money from the publishers (as well as access to early content and stuff) and there was some amount of quid pro quo. I think gamepro just made that particular instance public because it was so so absurdly flagrant and arrogant.
It was kind of common knowledge that this sort of thing happened and magazines sometimes vagueposted about it in complaints about other magazine's reviews (and other times just flat out shat on magazines who put out reviews with major errors).
Bias against Japanese games happened all across the board and was probably more related to just general massively widespread anti-weeb anti-Japanese bias at the time. Of course, this bias is still around and you can see it in stuff like "the game awards" but it's not as crazy as it was back then when G4 Tech TV was doing occasional full on racism and shit.
>just revisionism
are you saying it wasn't about a bunch of literallywho indie devs?

>>116136928
>GamerGate people throwing a tantrum over some retarded literallywho indie devs had less to do with journalism than with anything else.
What got people actually pissed off was the massive co-ordinated effort from 10+ publications all at once with almost identical headlines like, "you don't need to pander to gamers", with the inherent implication being that "new" fans, mainly women and minorities, should be the target of companies rather than "white males, holy grails". And as you pointed out, this was in response to literallywho indie devs. It made it abundantly clear that a lot of gaming media outlets were in bed with each other and would go to bat for each other the moment they get any push back
And even then, it might have settled down and not been viewed as so important if it weren't for multiple gaming studios having adopted the attitude of those gaming outlets and started trying to pander to non-gamers. That's when you had people trying to push the "actually more than 50% of gamers are women" line, despite the fact that the study proving that was including mobile casual games and console games in the same category, meaning that it was mostly useless for market research unless you were specializing in mobile gaming

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>>116137753
That sort of messaging was common with some magazines back in the day and with TV and other media covering gaming. There's always been this view from normies that gaming is cringe and there's always been this argument that in order for gaming to get bigger (for stock portfolio values to go up) it needs to pander to broader audiences. I think it became more pronounced with the internet era but it's not really something new.
As far as publications all saying the same shit, that tended to happen back then too but sometimes it was just flat out laziness/plagiarism. Like, back when Mega Man X2 came out there were a bunch of magazines that referred to Zero as Mega Man's dog. Here's GamePro doing it (it was believed they were the first to start the trend).

>>116137610
>are you saying it wasn't about a bunch of literallywho indie devs?
The gossip was, the "tantrum" wasn't.

>>116136616
Given the context shes obviously gping overboard because chuds wanted to all junp on her at the same time. With that said i dont want politics in vtubing and i dont have much interest in watching a political vtuber, left or right. It all goes back to Pippa, we need a tome machine to stop Pippa from debuting.

>>116137863
>As far as publications all saying the same shit, that tended to happen back then too but sometimes it was just flat out laziness/plagiarism. Like, back when Mega Man X2 came out there were a bunch of magazines that referred to Zero as Mega Man's dog. Here's GamePro doing it (it was believed they were the first to start the trend).
You're missing the point here that it was quite literally the same day within hours of each, or just pretending to miss the point
>That sort of messaging was common with some magazines back in the day and with TV and other media covering gaming.
You can practically trace the downfall of multiple studios to how hard they went all-in on that messaging though. The fact that you'll have developers still complaining about Gamergate is, if anything, just a further underline to how aware of it they all were. At this point, it feels more like you're trying to whitewash it than accept it honestly

>>116137960
I'm not trying to whitewash it, I'm saying that the overall situation is way worse and this is just one form of a larger trend of problems that have been plaguing the industry for far longer than gamergate.
For instance, look at how western games journalists treated Japanese games in that era (and still now, though less so). This video is from the TV era when things started getting better and you can find lots of similar examples from X Play alone.
https://litter.catbox.moe/jygqh7qzzwstwfx8.mp4
Japanese game devs heavily tried to pander to western audiences at the expense of Japanese ones because of the same reason (they needed number to go up). NieR Gestalt was the most flagrant example of this where the director and publisher met with the western marketing team in Los Angeles and the western team shat on the anime character designs and refused to budge on the need to replace the protag with a gay macho man and age up the characters to the point where the director said that if they changed it that much he wouldn't want to make it. Yuhei Yoshida spoke about this big push in an interview recently where he said that they finally decided in the late 2010s that it wasn't working and making Japanese games for a Japanese audience was just better. https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/370231.html
If you're a weeb (and I assume you are because you are /here/) then surely you would agree that journalism was always bullshit and those trends are bad but resolving them isn't as simple as pro "white males" chud politics.

>>116138216
You're trying to bring up the bias that these journalists had towards Japanese games, which although was and is a hot topic, isn't actually related to Gamergate or what it was talking about. You're just rambling at this point
>you would agree that journalism was always bullshit
Well yes. The problem isn't just "these guys talk shit", it's that they have a disproportionate influence on the industry. You can turn around and say, "lol just ignore them" until you realise that their articles get used as a basis to actually change the industry
Gamergate shook the field for people not because it proved that these journalists were hacks, but that they were a clique of hacks who had far more influence in the industry than anyone was confortable with them having.
As I said multiple times, the fact we still talk about Gamergate to this day is because it's still relevant.

>>116138216
>but resolving them isn't as simple as pro "white males" chud politics.
You can blame the left for this too by them entirely ceding this ground to the Chuds. It's like the localization bullshit where you'd think it would be a pretty even argument but it pretty much always boils down to "lefties are pro localisation, chuds are anti". I'd wager part of the issue is simply that too many lefties have basically infiltrated the institutions and so they see criticism of these institutions as attacks on their own ideas

>>116138216
There is no conflict of interest here, xplay is allowed to hate Japan.

>>116138216
The thing that distinguished the gamergate controversy isn't that /v/ was complaining about game journalism. Remember this was the era of /v/ we're talking about:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FUyNEIsJ7Tk
/v/ always was dogging on game journalists

What distinguished gamergate was the institutional response.

>>116138262
I just don't think they are that powerful. Imo, those journalists are just a symptom. They are saying that shit because it's what what the industry wants to hear (or more precisely the investors).
The rot goes down to the fact that publishers are publicly traded companies and that means they constantly have to push to grow their audience. This means that producers will try to do everything in their power to make this true. It also creates a demand for consultancy firms who can portray themselves as experts on those untapped audiences. If a studio wants to get funding to make a game it has to work with a publisher and since at the end of the day it's the publisher's money then they can have a lot of say over a lot of things.
>isn't actually related to Gamergate or what it was talking about
My point was, if you are a weeb then you already knew journalists were bad and you know that going after these particular journalists over these particular issues isn't going to fix things for the sort of media you actually care about. Video Game Awards are still extremely biased against Japanese games. It's like if a bad guy has been shitting in your yard for years and you never cared or spoke about it but suddenly your neighbor tells you he took a piss in his yard and you're out there calling for him to go to jail for pissing in public.

>>116138372
A big part of the problem is how the right wing surrendered art to the left wing to virtue signal how ascetic they were. Had the right wing not done this to begin with the left wing would never have had a stranglehold on artistic institutions to begin with.

>>116138427
>My point was, if you are a weeb then you already knew journalists were bad and you know that going after these particular journalists over these particular issues isn't going to fix things for the sort of media you actually care about
Everyone already knew how bad game journalism was, see >>116138424
What made gamergate what it was was said journalists deflecting this particular criticism by blaming it all on misogyny. The game plan was escalate escalate escalate and since /v/ is full of NEETs who feed off drama they were happy to meet that escalation until gamergate became the most significant political event since 9/11(that is not a joke, I am not being ironic).

>>116138372
>lefties are pro localisation, chuds are anti
That's not really true though. Moreover, many localization changes were done precisely to appease the religious right in the US.
Localizers will misrepresent their work and say that they have to localize to a language, but really they localize to a specific demographic. That demographic, in the US, has almost always been white boys with christian parents. Do you think Asian minorities, women, gays, or non-Christians were the reason for changes like
>onigiri -> jelly donuts
>card captor sakura -> card captors (episodes all chopped up and restructured to give it a male protagonist)
>gay relationships removed from Sailor Moon
>Christian terminology being removed from tons of games and shows (e.g., Drag-On Dragoon/Drakengard)
>etc..
Even Merry Christmas gets localized as "Happy Holidays" in order to not offend Christians (often unnecessarily) because in Japan, Christmas is not a religious holiday at all, instead it is basically valentines day so gacha games and stuff will often have special events surrounding sexual seduction. Japanese people do not put Christmas into their games and think about Jesus Christ or Christian religion, there's only like 1% Christians in their country.
Anyway, the TRUE LEFTIST take on localization is that it's bad because it favors the dominant culture in the US and therefore more direct translation is always better if you're concerned with equity and diversity. However, most leftists do not care to talk about leftism in the context of anime and shit because they view it as a stupid waste of time.

>>116138434
Leftists have infiltrated media institutions for far longer than you'd assume. Go back and look through the old McCarthy accusations about Hollywood, although he tended to be unprofessional, he wasn't actually wrong about them being communist sympathizers. And once they infiltrate, they start filtering out people who are ideologically opposed to them.

>>116138427
>I just don't think they are that powerful. Imo, those journalists are just a symptom. They are saying that shit because it's what what the industry wants to hear (or more precisely the investors).
The fact that these journalists are in such a relationship with the actual industry is part of what caused Gamergate, though. You're saying it as if it's a matter of fact, but the early gaming media outlets had absolutely no ties to the industry and were simply random bloggers/etc who loved games, but living in a post-Gamergate world, you're treating the cynical truth as matter of fact instead of realising that this simply wasn't the view until people were forced to acknowledge it

>>116138536
Ok, now I know you're being dishonest at best and outright lying at worse
Bringing up changes in kid's dubs for anime from 30 years ago and trying to play a "both sides did it" is just outright dishonest
>>card captor sakura -> card captors (episodes all chopped up and restructured to give it a male protagonist)
This wasn't some anti-girl agenda, it was that the stations wanted more boys to watch it and felt that making changes would increase the male share of the audience
>Even Merry Christmas gets localized as "Happy Holidays" in order to not offend Christians
This is an utter lie and you should stop engaging with this discussion if you're going to outright lie and expect nobody to call you out. The people pushing this are exclusively atheist or Jews. But I'm glad you are just lying blatantly now because it means every other post you've made with a massive wall of text can basically just be ignored because you've openly proven that you have no problem lying to push your point, like the lying ideologue you are

>vtubers?

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>>116138627
>This wasn't some anti-girl agenda
who said it was anti-girl? You're saying exactly what I'm saying. Localizers focused on the white boy with christian parents demographic.
>utter lie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan
It really is a secular holiday more like valentines day. This is why it's a red flag if your JP oshi isn't streaming on Christmas (it means she might be with a guy).

>>116138556
And the solution to leftist infiltration is to surrender all art completely and to cope and seethe about it for the rest of time by pretending to not be into art? Amazing plan, no wonder you are currently surrendering all game creation to China.

>>116138683
>It really is a secular holiday more like valentines day.
That's not the part he said was a lie.

>>116138730
>>116138730
>And the solution to leftist infiltration is to surrender all art completely
Yes. There is no point trying to make art, we have enough and need to focus on preserving the art of the past.
>no wonder you are currently surrendering all game creation to China
What games? Gacha coomerslop?

>>116138683
>Localizers focused on the white boy with christian parents demographic.
No, they didn't. That's such a dishonest reading. Why are you so dishonest? This isn't even a joke, you just read into things and make extrapolations
>Christmas
I know what Christmas is like, you don't need to start acting condescending. And no, that's not the part I was calling out, it was the idea that localizers were changning it to Happy Holiday for Christians rather than because the localisers are a bunch of atheists. You not realising that just further proves you're out of your depth

>>116138772
And this plan is going brilliantly, there have been absolutely zero consequences for this genius idea of yours. You aren't completely misunderstanding the point of art at all.

There's a quote that describes how wrong you are:
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire" - Gustav Mahler, German Composer (1860–1911)

To your second point, you realise that China is moving on from Gachaslop into actual games now? This is what happens when you get lazy, you let your rivals catch up to you.

>>116138817
>rather than because the localisers are a bunch of atheists
The Japanese devs making the content aren't Christian either. At any rate, I only said the reason that that sort of decision became normal, not the reason the change is made every single time. Note that I said the change is made
>(often unnecessarily)
To be clear, I think it's dumb that they change it and I think that if anyone gets offended by Japanese cultural practices like lewd Christmas event art or whatever should just deal with it. Again, the leftist position is to be open to foreign culture rather than trying to censor and replace it with western culture.

togepega threads are just a coinflip between /v/ culture wars or /pol/ culture wars

>>116138904
>The Japanese devs making the content aren't Christian either.
So what? They still call the holiday Christmas. Translating it to anything else is unprofessional
>anyone gets offended by Japanese cultural practices like lewd Christmas event art
Why do you keep rambling about bullshit in all of your replies? It's like you feel the need to be "correct" so you throw a completely unrelated point, a point that is bullshit by the way, to make yourself seem more intelligent
>Again, the leftist position is to be open to foreign culture rather than trying to censor and replace it with western culture.
And yet it's leftists who don't want to see the word Christmas in their horse games

>>116138912
It's a general made by an anti. Look at the OP image name.
>togejobs $25.mp4
They bump it all day every day even if no one is here and create a new one when the last one dies.
All of the actual toge discussion happens on /pcg/

>>116138855
>And this plan is going brilliantly, there have been absolutely zero consequences for this genius idea of yours
Are you just gonna vague post or will you tell me what the consequences have been?
>To your second point, you realise that China is moving on from Gachaslop into actual games now? This is what happens when you get lazy, you let your rivals catch up to you.
Having an art industry just doesn't make sense these days. We already have more great books, movies, video games, etc than can be experienced in a lifetime and every piece of art created has to compete with that. And even when something new actually does achieve a level of quality to make it worth it, it adds to the competition for future art. If China wants to in invest in the art industry, that's their misfortune.

>>116138937
>And yet it's leftists who don't want to see the word Christmas in their horse games
Cygames does their localization in-house and they make that change on all of their games. It didn't get attention until Umamusume because the choice to do it there was mega dumb but likely this was just an internal policy made back in the day to deal with granblue fantasy Christmas events or something.

>>116138971
I'd say more likely they got some "consultant" to advise them on a Western launch and this was a suggestion

>>116138960
If you stop producing art, you lose your art industry. The Japanese have the right idea with their anime/manga industry to keep pushing new IPs
Kids wants their own, new IPs that are their own, not just their parents. Same way kids want to listen to their own era's music and not just recycle their parent's music collections, even if they do eventually go back and listen to them

>>116138971
Why would the Japanese come up with "Happy Holidays", it's not a term they employ over there to any extent.
It's an Americanism used to cover for a bunch of religious holidays. The Japanese don't employ the term because their equivalent of "big religious event" is New Years, which they don't throw together with Christmas

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>>116138987
Maybe, but to be fair, their in-house localizers are kind of retarded. Here they are translating an audible sound into a bunch of keys being smashed on a keyboard. There's more dumb choices in their slidedeck.
https://speakerdeck.com/cygames/httpsspeakerdeckcomcygamescygames_202607_cedec2026_12

>>116138960
Are you incredibly autistic or are you a psychopath? Your low EQ could be caused by either at this point.

>>116139028
Feels like you're moving away from the point again

>>116138912
>a coinflip between /v/ culture wars or /pol/ culture wars
Looking at this thread, it makes sense why /hlgg/ and so many of the splits left.

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>>116139042
What is "the point"? I'm just saying they could have very easily come up with that choice themselves. They seem fully capable of making dumb US-centric localization choices on their own, like picrel

>>116139033
What I said is simply true.

>>116139090
Could, probably didn't

>>116139101
Congratulations, now the entire media apparatus of your country either subtly or overtly pushing for ideas and policies that will make your life worse
You seem to assume half the people withdraw from media means that no media will be produced rather than "the other half produces it all"

>>116139101
You realise that kids are the majority consumer of art right? What is going to happen to your kids when they consume troonslop for their entire childhood?

>>116136205
She's off topic there

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>>116138855
>To your second point, you realise that China is moving on from Gachaslop into actual games now?
What actual game? Rollslop #9272? Releasing one of these "actual games" every two years isn't exactly doing much, and they are not penetrating into the Western audience. It's not as bad as their film industry, but most of these purchases are from the Chinese. In other words, China is making Gaben richer because they don't have their own Steam.

>>116139251
>also I love Pippa
we know

>>116138960
>We already have more great books, movies, video games, etc than can be experienced in a lifetime and every piece of art created has to compete with that
Lol, so
>stop writing music because "we have so much music already"
>old bands all die out over the course of the next 50+ years
>no new bands, entire touring industry dies out

>>116139277
While it does not in any way mention Pippa, what it does allude to is the domestic terrorist furry bisexual who killed Charlie Kirk.

>>116139236
It means they have an actual industry capable of consistently producing new stuff. And not a remake worshipping fake industry filled with midwit accountants out to beancount their way to a fake profit. It's an indicator of the trajectory their industry could take and what trajectory ours is going. Poland was only able to make the Witcher games only a few years ago. And Sweden was only able to make Minecraft and Magicka.

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>>116139300
>producing new stuff
Please pick the new stuff from the selection. Thanks.

>>116139324
Phantom Blade 0 is the latest one, you would know if you actually enjoyed watching chuubas since many of them played it very recently.

>>116139353
Yeah, played the one time for the ad and then never returned. But again more to the point, these games coming out of China are not capturing Western audiences. They serve their very large domestic market, with a rapidly dwindling young population every 10 years, much like Bollywood serves Indians. People will continue playing American live service games and check out some single-player stuff every now and then coming out of Europe or Japan.

>>116139401
Half of Wukong's 30 millions sales were outside of China

>>116139437
I mean if we're relying on the performance of a single game as the sole judge of industry health, GTA6 will be the biggest release ever in the history of the world.

>>116139486
It likely cost far less to make than GTAVI
But also by your own logic, we don't need GTAVI since it's a new game and, sure, we already have plenty of games

>>116139549
Games? We don't need those. Me stare at fire, fire is all the art Grug needs.

>>116139549
I'm a different guy.
>It likely cost far less to make than GTAVI
Yeah, because the Chinese pay themselves absolute dogshit wages, just like the Japanese. Something to be proud of?

>>116139570
The current state of AAA game development isn't healthy, though

>>116139187
You realize you don't have to consume modern slop, right? My kids consume what I make available to them.
>>116139138
You seem to be under the impression that once a piece of media has been around for a few years it gets banished to the shadow realm. What the industry is doing makes no difference to me. If they want to waste their resources making redundant leftist propaganda, let them.

>>116139981
Wrong, your kids can and will consume the slop. This is why I said you have a low EQ, because you don't seem to understand that your kids will consume the slop whether you like it or not.

>>116139981
Also have you talked to the average person? Something that isn't created this year is considered old and out of date. And it's getting worse ever since social media. I suspect that thanks to both AI and Social media, anything older than a month will be considered old.

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Toge Minecraft stream tonight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RIDoRxturw

>>116139833
That goes without saying. GTA6's budget is estimated to be somewhere between 1 and 1.5 billion, and yeah it'll make it back but that's already a much higher break even cost than GTA5 and RDR2 when adjusted for inflation, or even Cyberpunk 2077. Hell, Gears of War E-day had an estimated budget of half a billion, and that's for an IP that even at its peak still wasn't anywhere near Halo levels of brand recognition. And the Insomniac games need to sell 6 or 7 million copies to break even because they share licensing costs with Marvel...indie games will live on but there is no way that AAA gaming is remotely sustainable. Even with "AI tools" that Tim Sweeney swears up and down is the future, there is no way you can have hundreds of people work in large expensive buildings, at salaries of maybe 70k-100k a year at the low end (For people living in North America or Western Europe at least), on games with ultra fancy 4k textures and assets that take years to make, and expect this model to be sustainable forever.

>>116140325
We'll see I guess, so far they haven't.
>>116140364
This is the kind of mindset I want to resist.

>>116136928
Who actually has it right shouldn't even matter this much, I mean for fuck's sake, it's internet drama about fucking video games of all things from 10 years ago, it's not that deep. It's as trivial as her opinion on Depp v Heard, just imagine if Pippa stopped talking to Clara if because she didn't share the same opinion on it. Both these dramas are only tangentially related to politics, in fact the Heard thing is even more serious of a topic since it involves domestic violence. Gamergate was just losers on the internet arguing about video games and sending mean messages about other losers.

>>116140905
Wrong, it is the reason why young men are permanently right wing now. Like all the left has to do is admit that they went too far with Gamergate and maybe just maybe they can undo some of the damage they've done. They won't though so the scar will remain.

>>116139833
Entirely because of left-wingers.

>>116140612
>muh development cost
>muh budget
Nice deflection from the actual cause of the cancer in AAA development.

>>116142153
BG&E was showcased as early as 2002, it's older than 4chan. Imagine how /v/ would have cried, nobody gave a fuck back then. Honestly you fags have filled an entire thread whining about bullshit, you have simply been mindbroken by the worst side of internet culture, you can't even not politicize your hobbies. Including vtubing, it's why it's so disappointing to see Togepega feel like she needs to mirror the exact same attitude as a form of oppositional reflex. Just go back where you came from.

>>116138912
Even /smug/ stays more on topic than this general. This trash belongs on /pol/

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Entire TL;DR thread
You guys use quite a lot of words to talk about how much you love toge the GOAT deserves nothing less

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>>116142318
Let me guess, you think it's le woke because the protag is a woman? Gachas must be the wokest shit ever then because nearly the entire main cast of any gacha is female
Don't play dumb. You absolutely know what I mean when I said that. The deliberate uglification in character design. The repulsive personality of the characters.
>you can't even not politicize your hobbies
I don't politicize games. Chump studios that bought the shit charlatan consultants sold them politicized their games. Was BioWare spending $500 million per game? No. So what killed them? Why were their games so poorly received? Veilguard wasn't a buggy piece of shit. It ran perfectly fine. Autopsy the cause for me.

>>116142153
It's because of left wingers that they re-release the same games every year?
Oh right woke is killing games, not creative bankruptcy and every single game copying each other

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>>116136205
I got a ban for trolling for telling schizo anon to take his meds in the schizobake that removed Clara and posting her, Phase is anti toge, all of the Phasers told her to go away and die and that's the end of the story, they don't exist anymore, awful people.

>>116142527
XCOM EU came out in 2012 around that time, I guess you didn't notice because you've been crying like a bitch all day about politics for the last 15 years, you're a fraud even as gamer. I imagine you're just as pathetic when it comes to vtubing.

>>116142567
AAA studios falling back on remakes is literally harkening back to a time before they went full woke and started failing left and right, and remakes are doing well. It is the dictionary definition of creative bankruptcy, and it's doing well. People literally want these studios to release the same game that they used to love. Why is that?

>>116142392
It doesn't help that when Toge is gone it just devolves into this.

>>116142527
Bioware games after Mass Effect weren't cheap either, they may have had a slightly lower production cost due to the Canadian dollar but they were in development hell for years. That's still money going into the game and paying for employees, they don't work for free. Andromeda and Anthem had tons of problems that were only worked on over patches, and by the time Veilguard came out it was almost 10 years since the last DA game, Baldurs Gate 3 rose from the ashes and brought AAA CRPGs back into the mainstream and faith in Bioware was low since their last "good" game was ME3 in 2012. And Mass Effect Universe is said to have been years away while requiring another $200 million to finish, it's easy to see why EA would pull the plug on them and invest that money into an IP with less baggage like Star Wars.

>>116142567
It's failing because the wrong people for the wrong reasons had way more power in the industry than they should have. They failed because for more than a decade, we've had people in the industry that fucking hated gamers and tried to do everything they could to replace that audience they looked down on to chase a new mythical audience, but it failed and now the rest of the industry is suffering because of it.

>>116142819
I don't know what you're trying to get at. Whatever it is, you're wrong.

>>116142966
I blame world of warcraft, diverse characters and bad design all go back to that game and it became so popular

I can't believe we're trying to memory hole the absolute control and complete dominance of left-wing ideology in the Western video game industry since the 2010s. Remember how there was an insane shitstorm because Tracer's ass was too shapely? And we scarcely see even cleavage on AAA character designs since. I guess the amnesia is at least a reluctant admittance that you went too far.

>>116140905
>It's as trivial as her opinion on Depp v Heard
She has the wrong opinion

>>116143146
Yeah toge thought us everything about the gamergate bots used by breitbart and steve Banon to engineer a shitstorm and mindcontrol
Meanwhile you'll just ignore that Call of duty is pure fascist propaganda

>>116142318
>you can't even not politicize your hobbies
I just read eroge in Japanese, watch anime without subs and play a few Japanese games that interest me. I listen to music even if the artists are a little retarded about politics
But mostly it's just that I get pissed off when I see people blatantly lying, and some people in this thread tell the biggest lies without flinching just because it makes "their side" look less shit

>>116142784
Good. I'm happy it happened to you.

>>116143175
>fascist
You retards needs to retire this word, you've absolutely drained it of all of its meaning by now
You can call COD military or even jingoism but calling it fascist propaganda puts you on the same level as people who lick their own toilet seats

>>116143203
Fascist love the idea of one man, Rambo, being the hero that change everything all by himself
Mason single handedly defeated the viets, the soviets, the russians, the arabs, the persians and north koreans
Non fascist military propaganda prefers the idea that everyone worked together and were part of the effort
Vtuber

>>116143413
>everyone worked together and were part of the effort
Is that why Soviet states had to raise statues to Lenin? Because non-fascist, presumably communist in this context, is totally about the people and the group?

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>>116142952
I just got back from a vacation, but do we have a "only bake when she streams" policy? Would be a good idea if not, thoughbeit I guess the shitflinging will keep the thread up regardless.
Even if the thread is crappy it's kinda nice to see other togetons on here, hi everyone.

>>116143617
Communist can be authoritarian and cult of personalities is indeed bad, Lenin was at least a philosoph and wrote about socialism, Stalin's stuff was all removed tho

>>116142979
>I don't know what you're trying to get at
That's because you're convinced you're in some retarded all-encompassing culture war and you don't see anything outside of it. Gaming started out as individuals making something they enjoyed and wanting to share it with their friends, just like vtubing. It was never about needing to "control the narrative" for stupid political causes, though you certainly had games like Fallout 1 with its overtly political, anti-militarist opening. It's always been there, look at how Fallout 2 ended. The final enemy is the fascist remnants of the US government essentially obsessed with racial purity, and that was made in 1998. All this was long, long before this stupid binary about what media your identity group is allowed to like.
And despite all the bullshit that comes along with multimillion dollar industries, there's always going to be the same spirit of independence and creativity, and people invested in the hobbies they enjoy. Just follow what you enjoy. That was the purpose of 4chan very long ago, not some battleground for political organization.

>>116143413
You'll find a lot of normal people also like Rambo, you politically brainrotted antisocial retard

>>116143757
I don't think there's any policy or even a solid format on the general OP.

>>116143146
That is true in that shit storms like that were common back then, but calling it "dominance" is an exaggeration. Yeah, companies like EA gave lip service to people like Anita Sarkisian with Mirrors Edge 2, but at the same time GTA5 released during that time frame and was still super popular with the online component, and it still had 1st person topless nudity at the strip clubs. You have League where Riot was based in California and has character designs to appeal to cosplay thots, Borderlands where the female character designs weren't any less raunchy between 2-3, ecchi games from Japan still had their fanbases on PS3/vita, Overwatch still had cosplay thots and a fuck ton of porn, it really didn't change up much compared to Payment processors making harsher demands to Japanese art in the 2020s. Being overly left or right leaning really didnt make that much of a difference in a games success, nor does it now.

>>116143757
The problem is she's going in the direction of soapboxing and twitter activism. Aside from it alienating her older, more conventional audience it starts bringing in the culture war shit, which will make any general a nightmare. That's a her problem, nobody else can set that direction but her.

never watched phase don't think I ever will. She has a nice voice. Do people actually hate her politics? She can't have said anything that bad, right? As long as she does not literally hate white men and want to kill male babies or something i'm pretty sure she's chill

>>116144163
Well, she was. Being the target of antis for about 2 years has pushed her in a really unfortunate direction. It remains to be seen whether she'll pull back on the stick at some point, some of her recent behavior doesn't seem very balanced.

>>116144215
she was what? chill? Antis are crazy fuck them. Am I allowed to say he roommate is really pretty?

>>116136189
Toge tongues my asshole

>>116144241
I don't think there's anything wrong with that claim, though I think Toge has nice tits from what she showed during the card reading stream

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toge should talk about quantum mechanic and somehow make it about politics so that this thread ends up solving it all to own the other political side, whichever it is to you.

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>>116143982
I truly love her and I don't think you're wrong. There's some value in clearing the air about some slander that's been thrown at her, but just frequently focusing on political topics will probably invite uncomfy actors and vibes in. She did say she doesn't want her core content to be about politics, so I'm hoping she pulls back on it.

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OUR ENEMIES ARE ALL THOSE IN LEAGUE WITH /POL/: THE /SMUG/TUBERS, THE /#/FAG IDOLSHITTERS AND THE REACTIONARY SECTION OF THE ANONS ATTACHED TO THEM.

>>116144766
She should invite a non-binary person on her stream then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAYPi0nqJ50

>>116144794
>There's some value in clearing the air about some slander that's been thrown at her
It can't be done, that's the problem. She's got pathological people fixated on her, maybe she stepped on that landmine accidentally but it simply can't be undone on the timeline she wants. What she's doing now is like trying to fight a fire with gasoline. The only strategy is be faultless and starve it of fuel, which is drama. Which means
>no twitter fights
>no feeding PL drama
>no interaction with people who invite drama
>focus on content that builds a strong career network and reflects on you well
If you have any access to her, to her to write that on her fridge and give herself a kilometer of cardio each time she breaks a rule. She's doing the wrong things, maybe with good intentions, but you know the saying and these mistakes seem really obvious. If she isn't getting advice that's sinking in from online strangers she doesn't trust, it's got be from someone she'll listen to.

>>116143413
That’s why every communist military and government ever has framed photos and statues of the supreme leader everywhere. Whereas every fascist country used symbols and generic statues of its people in marble. It’s funny how you people are always wrong about everything.

>>116136821
She'd be correct. Irrespective of GamerGate's initial supposed intentions against influence in gaming journalism. Gamers and pro GG influencers just couldn't keep their obsession with hating women in check and essentially that's all what the movement became. One could even argue that was a motte and bailey in the first place, considering the event that triggered all of it.

>>116145693
If she's more right then me on this, fair enough, but a ban is ridiculous. The whole thing is not even the easiest thing to be objective with how much of a mess it all was. The choice is spending hours sifting through shit that hasn't been lost to time, or biased second hand accounts from either side. Even those who were at the forefront aren't going to remember every important thing from something that was more than a decade ago.

>>116145693
>”NOOOOOO! You CAN’T point out how all of the major game studios were replacing long time game loving nerds with HR Karen’s who hate the industry and wanted to destroy it to own the child’s, and who were also giving blowjobs for promotions!”
Shut up bitch. Gamergaters were right. You are on the wrong side of history once again.

>>116145944 (me)
>Chuds* (complimentary title)

>>116145683
I like how you notice your own bullshit and said "generic statues in marble" to make your point valid
Did the leaders after Mao really get the full nationalist cult, I don't know, I don't even know their names

>>116145975
Deng tried to pull China to a more moderate and free market system. Which worked. But then Xi came with his literal Mao larp outfit he got from the same store as Hasan. And now cult of personality is back on the menu.

>>116142153
Left wingers couldn't care less about infinite growth.

>>116142527
Oh boy. Really? Incel whiners bitching about a game not pandering to their likes in 2026? Don't you have a Stellar Blade sequel to jack off to already? What's the entitlement about?

>>116146172
>Incel whiners bitching about a game not pandering to their likes in 2026?
Issue being is that the wokes or whatever they call themselves either aren't putting their money where their mouths are, or aren't numerous enough to compensate for these multi-million dollar games and so they drive themselves out of business pandering

>>116146094
Incorrect. The need for infinite growth is the result of government debt. If the economy doesn't grow, then the USA either goes bankrupt or we get hyperinflation.

>>116145693
>Gamers and pro GG influencers just couldn't keep their obsession with hating women in check and essentially that's all what the movement became
Only the most dishonest, disingenuous propagandists could come out with a sentence like this. Well, not that I'm particularly surprised

>>116144163
>She can't have said anything that bad, right?
She made Nyara "can't shut up about trans kids" into one of her channel mods, what do you think?
>>116144215
>Being the target of antis for about 2 years has pushed her in a really unfortunate direction
At the end of the day, she's a grown woman and shouldn't be using that as an excuse. Fundamentally speaking, it's only her fans and her own career that suffer as she continues to engage in petty fights on social media while bringing more spite into her content

>>116146094
A lot of lefties just fundamentally don't understand even basic economics

>>116146284
>basic economics
Economics is merely how humans allocate resources. We can, in fact, do so however we choose. The merits and demerits of a given approach can be studied, but there is no such thing as factually correct "basic economics" because this implies economics are some inevitable external force rather than a social construct, which is not true.

>>116146337
This blatantly shows how bad you people are at economics lmao.
>”Not some inevitable external force”
It literally is though. The foundational principle of all economics is supply and demand. ALL of it. Communists try to bypass that. Know what happens? Starvation and deaths of millions and a black market that abides by… wait for it… supply and demand! Fucking retards.

>>116146337
Not tryinh to get into politics and all that but economics most certainly have external factors.

>>116146371
What drives supply and demand retard? PEOPLE. That's the opposite of an external force. An external force would be, like, a volcano erupts and suddenly there's a large deposit of a previously rare metal or something. But the actual driving force of economics is human psychology. All social sciences are like this.

>>116146337
But there are economic principles that leftists usually fail to understand. For example, it is factually true that the labor theory of value is wrong and the subjective theory of value is right. Now that doesn't mean that you have allocate resources in a way that maximizes(or even considers) value, but it does mean that command economies lack the necessary signals to even try.

>>116146519
People dont really drive it, at its core its resources. Like if water is scarce in an area, people will probably have some sort of conflict for it

>>116146519
Supply of resources is not determined solely by "people", some are limited by nature, others by the skills needed to produce them, others by technology, etc

>>116146519
>”We’re going to get 50 million people to all just share! To each what they need!”
That’s literally never going to happen and never going to happen. Human psychology is that external force. Once again, fucking retard.

>>116146549
What will have some sort of conflict over it?

>>116146575
people will have some sort of confilct over water of it was scarce in an area.

I love that vt finally has a containment thread for politics

>>116146549
Without people, resources aren't even resources, they're just matter. The concept of something even being a resource requires a human to desire it.
>>116146572
Didn't say that. But
>human psychology is that external force
If our own brains are an external force the word "external" no longer means anything. We are our brains, they are not external to us, they make us.

>>116146652
Resources exist without humans anon, lions fight over meat. Thats one example, all of nature is affected by scarcity, it even drives evolutionary pressure.

>>116146652
Sure thing anon. Take your edgy 14 year old philosophy and go tell people still alive from when the Soviet Union existed or people who escaped North Korea how their system was just as “valid” as the one with supermarkets overflowing with fresh food.

Did you know the Soviets used to tell their people supermarkets were American propaganda? Like it’d be impossible to have fully stocked shelves?

>>116146652
Even chimps come up with very rudimentary forms of resource exchange. Are you dumber than a chimp?

>>116146652
you're just being pedantic innit. Yeah, our reactions to external factors come from us, but in common speak I think it's reasonable to still consider the root cause said external factors.

>>116146704
Why are you arguing with this retard? He knows you're right, he just doesn't care.

>>116146817
I didn't think we were going down that route since it's not really relevant. But sure, if you want to be absolutely accurate, being a resource is contextual - hydrogen is a resource for the sun, etc.

>>116146704
The Soviet Union couldn't work because what they were trying to do was beyond the technology of the time. Trying to hand-calculate supply and demand centrally doesn't work; in a human-run economy, Deng was right. A command economy might possibly be viable if it were AI-run, as it can receive and process the needed data in a way no human ever could, but we're not there yet.

>>116147880
Even an AI couldn't do it because the economic calculation problem is not computable.

>>116148544
The economic calculation problem predates modern communication and data collection systems. Everyone is literally walking around with a device in their pocket that tracks everything they do, the needed information, or the technology needed to create it, already exists.

>>116148544
I don't want to get all AI-technocratic on here, but in practice statistical, empirical models would be able to essentially solve this without an analytical solution, given enough data. The main issue is making a system smart enough to make the correct decisions, and also obviously the problem of putting the fate of society in non-human "hands". But I don't think it's definitely impossible, just not currently practical (or advisable, possibly).

>>116146633
How did all these politics get into my stupid block game...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RIDoRxturw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RIDoRxturw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RIDoRxturw

>>116148615
It's not a logistical issue, the problem is not computable because without markets determining prices there is no rational input.

You could even simplify the problem to a minimal case and still be unable to compute it.

>>116148780
Prices aren't needed when desires/requests for things can be sourced from people directly.

>>116148741
When people refused to share diamonds and good enchantments, IT'S WAR

>>116148780
A market is just one representation of a demand and supply relationship. A freely traded market is clearly an effective way to appraise products and commodities, but it's not exactly the only one, with complete information on the supply and demand for anything (via data collection etc) you could bypass prices entirely and match products to users as needed. At least, in theory.

>>116149224
Lol
Hopefully this can be a normal vtubing general, one day..

>>116148780
Prices do not determine the optimal allocation of everything. There is a reason many things are provided by the state rather than the market - left to the market, education, security, healthcare, social security and so on would be available only to the wealthy owing to their high market prices. So the state provides them instead in order to give them to more people.

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>>116142784
Good. Deserved ban.

>>116149241
The state of this thread should show you where this chuubas career is headed. This shit makes people like Kirsche look like non-political entertainers. For if for no other reason than her own self interest she should really stop going down this culture war path.

>>116147880
>“THIS time the system contrary to fundamental human behavior will work! Worth risking another 10,000,000 dead humans to try!”
Can you just go not shower and not work like your idol Marx did every day and leave everyone else alone?

>>116149647
No. I am not willing to accept this is the best we can do because this shit is ass. I'd rather we all die trying than do nothing.

>>116149647
The US hasen't been in a full capitalism since Nixon banned people from buying gold because the US gold reserve were emptied
Most governments are hybrid, the right keep saying that liberals are commies so I don't see how you haven't noticed

>>116150072
Yes most systems are hybrids. That’s how it’s supposed to be. Nobody except old Neocons call liberals “commies”. We call card carrying DSA members calling for actual theft of private property and government control of the economy “commies”. Because they are.