Welcome anons, this is a trial balloon to start discussion about G.I. Gurdjieff's esoteric teachings, also known under the name "the 4th way".Discuss the actual method in theory and practical application, G.I.'s life and ideas, your experiences and insights, parallels with other methods, etc.>Who was G.I. GurdjieffA mystic who lived last century.>What is the 4th way?A method to advance spiritually while staying part of modern life, as opposed to the way of the monk, fakir or yogi, which do lead to spiritual growth, but force one to retreat from life.>What do you actually do?You use the friction present in daily life to do "Work" by learning to observe how the many "I's" inside you react to situations without identifying with them.What do you mean by many I's>The base idea is that most men don't have a permanent I, but are a sleeping machine reacting to the constant stream of external inputs. Little I's constantly jump into the drivers seat, and believe they are the real "I", but none of them actually are. Only by learning to self-remember and observing the machine, and then learn to suffer consciously (struggle against the machine and observe), can man learn to build a real, permanent I. Corollary is that almost no human being can actually "do" anything. Everything happens to him.But what about my religion/creed/belief/magic-system XYZ?>There have been many humans that found out real truths and esoteric secrets but inherent to passing down teachings to greater groups of people over generations is that information waters down and gets lost, and more and more truth gets replaced by mechanicalness. Most creeds are sleeping machines creating more sleeping machines.That being said, the 4th way does not exclude any creed at all, it simply says, even if you wanted to, you couldn't be a real XYZ, because you have no real will yet, and you don't have the real esoteric knowledge yet to separate truth from lie.
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Retentoor General Episode 2: the Tariqa strikes back.
>>41170339Very interesting. Sounds like this book where the author says we are in a dream. But we can control the dream if we can try to be awake or aware. I still don't know how to do that. Is it enough to pause and say, "I know I am dreaming." How do I get in the driver's seat? Help me out here. Here is a short summary of the book I mentioned: >>"Tufti the Priestess. Live Stroll Through a Movie" by Vadim Zeland is a metaphysical self-help guide that builds on his "Reality Transurfing" principles, presented through the voice of Tufti, a blunt and enigmatic priestess from the Temple of Isis. The book likens life to a scripted film where most people sleepwalk through unwanted scenes, trapped by pendulums (collective energy structures) and excess potential. To rewrite your reality, Tufti teaches advanced techniques like the "Intention Plait" (a mental braiding method to focus and manifest desires), active observation to break free from the script, and harmonizing inner and outer intentions. It's a concise, practical companion to Zeland's earlier works, blending humor, philosophy, and tools for conscious reality-shaping, though some find Tufti's stern tone abrasive."
My thing with Gurdjieff is that he touches on some pertinent stuff but he's always too ague about what to actually do about it.
>>41171418Short answer is start by self observing and realizing that you live mechanically and almost never are "aware of being aware".Long answer I'd say the big difference between G.I. thought and things like reality transurfing are that in his view, you don't even know what you want yet, just a bunch of small I's wanting all kinds of stuff, and step one is seeing that reality.Both lines of thought in their core point towards everyone being an expression of "the absolute" as G.I. calls it and therefore uncapped in potential but with reality transurfing it sounds more like "just go out and grab your birthright bro" as opposed to the long and arduous path of self mastery to put yourself under higher laws and therefore increase your freedom (or decrease the distance to divinity) in the fourth way.But this is just my current understanding of things.
>>41171462Eventually you understand the vagueness. We all wear masks. Live life without the masks.
Remember:Ouspensky > GurdjieffWhy?Just check into it.
i only know who this is because of the song voyage of gurdjieff
I've got Beelzebub's Tales but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.
>>41171687Don't you think Ouspensky would appeal more to intellectual centre weighted people who like rigid systems of thought but Gurdjieff's more balanced and went deeper into the mystical depths of finding the self?
I recently watched The master of the carrieage, looks like the kind of thing i would've watched when i was a kid and would almost entirely forget about its existence. It has some good metaphors for the work and the implications of partaking in it.>>41171687Well, in 1924 Ouspensky decided to break "all connections with Mr. G. and his group". Maybe the older Gurdjieff isn't as useful for the work as the Gurdjieff that lectured in the russian empire, but i'm not knowledgable enough on the history of the fourth way to affirm that.
>>41170339i like j krishnamurti
