Can a Christian or Muslim explain to me why God would allow someone to exist if He knew they were going to be tortured for all eternity after their life is over? If God is the most merciful and loving being in existence wouldn’t He just prevent them from existing? I am not an atheist btw, I’ve interacted with demons before so I know the spiritual world exists.
sure thing anon, i'll answer your questionGod creates human beings with certain stat distributions. what do i mean by "stat distributions", well, its the environment you are raised up in, how well educated you become, how wealthy you become, the cultural religion you're born into, your genetics and health etcbecause of how duality works, he doesn't create 100% of people wealthy, but must evenly spread out the distribution amongst the humans he createsdepending on the stat distribution, you are more likely or less likely to seek out or accept Godso for example, you are born filthy rich and beautiful. it is highly highly likely that you will not seek out God, because you will be filled with pride. being beautiful causes other people to place you on a pedestal, filling your heart with pride. being filthy rich causes you to focus on other things in life, and not Godblessings are a double edged sword, as you can seeGod knows who will be receptive to him, based on the complexity, intracacies and all the subtlties of these various stat dsitrubtionshowever, notice that this doesn't negate your free will? you're free to be saved, free to pick God, but it is highly likely that you wontwhatsmore, on a larger collective level, "The Word" of God, or scripture must be fulfilled. it's like "a magnetic force" pulling events and things into place slowly over time, but on a large scale. at an individual level each person has their own agenda though. so, scripture states "few are saved", does this mean you're locked out of being saved? no, it's more a "position or slot to be filled". you can choose to be saved and accept salvation, you can be part of the few and "fill those shoes"as you can see, none of any of this contradicts free will
>>41175198hinduism and buddhism have hells too buddy, its just for eternity
>>41175250ah, i should also add, everyones name is initially in the book of life, but can be blotted out. this is how pre-destination works, aswell as the "slot to be filled" concept
>>41175198I think this implies that god hasn't really created anyone that started off unable to find salvation , but I feel like the real problem is more so what that actually means. it at least implies some stuff not being talked about about the religion.because as a extremly correct fact , no evil mother can directly birth a baby into hell. but people do sometimes act like she could.
>>41175250That doesn’t answer the question.>>41175259They don’t claim that the creator is infinitely loving or merciful.
>>41175340>doesn’t answer the question.God started the chain reaction, but technically humans are responsible for bringing more humans into the world when you think about it
>>41175250duality is or is not imposed by your native tongue>t. English
>>41175198We have free will. God doesnt make people who are doomed to hell from the start. Everyone can earn heaven if they try.
>>41175393> earn heaven if they trythanks for the laff juden
>>41175198Meaningless spam thread?
>>41175406Whats funny? Its the truth. Nobody gets in for free. Not being evil isnt enough, you have to actively do good.
>>41175439LMAO
>>41175340>They don’t claim that the creator is infinitely loving or merciful.hinduism does someitmes say that
>>41175198why mod would allow someone to post if He knew they were going to be spamming the board for all eternity with the same retarded atheist spam?
>>41175198Why only christians or muslims? Dont you care about jewish opinions?
>IF YOU DON'T LOVE JESUS = HELLYou're starting to get it.I wonder how much pussy was gotten using these fear tactics
>>41175198This is heresy. Repent now or Begone wicked one!
>>41175485Rabbis say that hell is not eternal and is a punishment that "cleanses the soul" in the afterlife so we can go to heaven or be reborn. So only Christianity and Islam have eternal punishment in the afterlife
>>41175198No, they can't explain to you why God would allow that because they wouldn't.
>>41175555Well dang. I like that idea way better. Brb converting.
>>41175613It does seem to make the most sense of all the religions, but I would be 100% sure before converting, since its irreversible
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Romans 9:21-24)
>>41175198Simple. There is no hell. Hell is a fabrication of the church. Sinners just don't get to enter Heaven. And then, only if they don't repent and accept God.
>>41176489I was also raised that hell is the absents of gods light or something so it probably is just eternal nothingness. scary!
>>41175198>[*The suffering will continue until moral improves*]Lol
>>41175198basically everyone ends up in heaven some have to take the long road through hell first and god lets you decide which roads you take.
>>41175198No one suffers such fate. People cause their suffering to themselves, and the length/intensity of that suffering is proportional to their action that caused it.
>>41175198I think these people are mostly living in their happy realm and Christianity appeals to those with chronic pain, I notice my mom loves the bible verse about pain being rewarded 7 x 77 x 777 in heaven. Its a childish view that makes them good because they were the golden child of the narcissistic pretty much
God gives everyone a chance for eternal life he can change a person's destiny at any moment.
>>41177172So then why not destine everyone for heaven right now and be done with it? God can do literally anything, there are no limits on his power. If God has rules he has to follow for some reason (like free will or sin) he's not God. Similarly, if God has to follow prophecy exactly he's got even less free will than you do and he's not God. Any being willing to torture any other being for any reason is a demon, not God.
>>41177191God has given everyone a heart to choose what they love. Everyone did choose hell but thats why he came here as Jesus to show us there is another way so we can have eternal life.
>>41177272So why did this take thousands of years and involve millions of people going to Hell instead of being a three-minute conversation in the Garden of Eden?>adam>yes lord>you at the wrong fruit, you are going to hell>oh no lord, what will we do>well for some reason I can't just erase your memory or not give a shit, so I have to create a body for myself and then kill that body in the most horrible way possible>you mean being burned alive>no, strapped to a cross>okay, well, let's get right on. that. You make the body and I'll go chop down some trees>no, adam, I'm going to wait for like ten thousand yeas until you and millions of people are in hell before saving you>why lord>dunno, lol. anyway, fuck off until I'm ready to solve the problem I did nothing to stop
>>41175198God creates everyone with a hope that they’ll find salvation but they have the choice to accept it or not. While to edgy teenagers and selfish adults, the idea of actions having consequences and not being able to have your cake and eat it too seems unfair; you’ve been given the ability to decide for yourself. Christ tells you “Listen, I’m the only hope you have from certain death and I offer it for free, all you gotta do is understand and I’ll take care of the rest” and somehow people want to complain about it.
>>41175555isnt dat what catholes be saying
>>41177283>instead of being a three-minute conversation my great grandma literally refused to talk to my uncle for the majority of her life until she died because my uncle got upset at her talking shit about my great grandpa after he died
>>41175198You have a false belief on what mercy and torture and love are.Love drives people to commit atrocious acts toward one another and their selves for their own pride. It is humility that prevents us from committing these acts, not internal good will; Love on its own is not absolutely good.By torturing others we absolve them of their sins. God created hell out of love for us because otherwise we would torture ourselves in life and see no point in doing good for ourselves.Additionally there are more literal arguments for the existence of hell. Think of the idea of "home". A home is not a real place, it is a place that exists in a person's mind, yet it is significant to them. Reality is the same, a convolution of ideas loosely correlated with material.Hell is invented by your own mind when you live a life acting as a force of chaos and discord in the minds of others. It is inevitable that you perceive the actions of others against yourself as being just; and you convince yourself that you deserve death. And ultimately that means you are more likely to throw yourself onto their sword than you are to be fairly slain by them.Conversely, heaven is similar. It is an immortal existence that cannot be violated. If you attain heaven, you cannot discard it because it means you have begun to act in a manner that will kill you before you willingly act against the accord of heaven. It is not without torment, but compared to hell you feel nothing from it.Another thing is, while you do not explicitly say it, I would guess you believe death to be a kind of evil.Death doesn't exist. Science doesn't acknowledge death. Neither does Theology; To us it is simply an allegory for a form of existence, a horrifying one that defies understanding.When you die, who and what you are continues to exist. The solipsist argument that the universe disintegrates when you close your eyes and is reborn when you open them is a fundamentally flawed understanding of what knowledge is.
>>41175613Don't quote me on this but apparently eternal torment is a mistranslation. Makes the church a lot of money. Some Universalits believe it's only temporary but.. yeah
>>41175198This, like all attacks on God, is a strawman built to challenge God's assertion that he is Mercy. In this particular case the poster has begun by creating a fake god that does not reflect the true God.>why God would allow someone to exist if He knew they were going to be tortured for all eternity after their life is overThis is not biblical and it's not what the scripture tells us. In this case the poster is misrepresenting the purpose of a very specific punishment metter out to immortal individuals only. The scripture tells us the three types of creatures that suffer for all eternity. 1. The fallen angels2. The people in Revelation who obtain immortality by taking the Mark. "They will seek death but death will flee from them" 3. The spirits of the nephalim who had no place to go after the flood because they should never have existed. This is all straight from scripture or from books directly referenced and quoted in scripture. All scripture tells us beyond this about the suffering of those who reject forgiveness (either tacitly or ignorantly) is that after judgement they are burned up. Annihilism exists and is perfectly in line with God's character of mercy just as eternal punishment exist and is perfectly in line with God's character of Justice. Hopefully now you can see the deception OP is attempting to pull over on you. By conflating his false rendition of scripture with his version of "god" he tries to supplant the true God of scripture with the "god" he created.Now here is something to actually think about. OP's example bothered you because it violated an ingrained sense of fairness and morality deep inside of you. It seemed to violate a law or standard that you did create, you didn't encourage and get you feel compelled to at least listen to. Objective morality, which is what you are unknowingly acknowledging, is proof God exists.
>>41178286You definitely aren't Christian or a follower of Christ, and that sure AF doesn't sound like Islam though I'm less familiar with it. Why are you responding? Op specifically asked for those two. He's clearly already mixed up, why equate tour belief system to either of the requested ones in his head? If you want to be associated with one of those religions so much, then go follow one of them and stop following whatever tickles your ears. Chase the truth only.
>>41175250Does God create humans prior to conception or after conception. if prior to conception does he make people fuck to house the souls he created. If he creates prior to conception How would god making people fuck play into free will?
>>41178837Who say you have complete free will here? Maybe you're free will was choosing your life in the beginning. Nothing in scripture to suggest that isn't the case. The big question is which life did you choose. See, from an evangelical point of view all the people I'm going to convert are already converted. We just don't know each other yet and there is no way of knowing who will say yes. No one is to evil for God to save. So we are supposed to tell everybody. I hate quoting the matrix but it fits. You've already made the choice, you're here to figure out why.
>>41178837Wanna hear something crazy. I think I remember making my choice. It's the only dream I've ever had where the other characters in the dream were not NPC's for me to interact with. I was actually happy I said something that pleased God. I've never given AF about any being in a dream whether it was lucid or not. I'm inherently narcissistic, but I cared that one time. I was allowed to ask for something to help me, I asked for wisdom, and the last thing I remember was hearing, "It's gonna hurt" and I replied, "I don't mind." NGL, I was naive af cause I can tell you. Right now I really fucking mind, but I trust the father.
The fact the judeochristian god falls apart with simple logic experiments like OP should tell you everything>perfect, loving, merciful, divine, transcendent, holy god>can't act any better than a cosmic Kim Jong Unlol why does he call himself savior when according to the bible he condemns more than he saves
>>41175198>why God would allow someone to exist if He knew they were going to be tortured for all eternityBecause the data collected by allowing the neural imprint of a sentient being to be exposed to and endure its damnation is valuable. There is much to be learned by the forces of Good as they scrutinize their polar opposite sparks of evil as they squirm in futility against their inevitable disintegration trapped within the imploding pressures of their self exasperating natures. Of these black sparks, a small percentage will truly seek full utter repentance, and thus the children of God grow larger into infinity. The ultimate goal is to convert all of reality into Good.>>41175198>all eternityAn eternity, singular. Infinity times 1. Reiterating the above, on the infinity timescale, eventually every speck of evil submits and converts, triggering their experience of a reality of infinity to branch into another, an other. Recorruptibility remains a possibility, so branching continues. The branches grow on and on, sometimes forming entirely new trunks and trees of life opposing death.>>41175198>If God isCurrent era earth neural circuitry is wholly incapable of even beginning to comprehend the true infiniplicity of even demigod level beings, much less the true ultimate primordial God itself. It is an impossible conversation to have to discuss the intricacies of how that ultimate God can simultaneously be the most loving yet most hating, but for the sake of sating your interests, in understandable human-experience-relatable-terminology: A % of God is devoted to the apex of each trait. A sliver of God is made an extremophile that exhibits that aspect, and conducts its will upon what it may. Surely humans can understand that something can be both loved and hated.>>41175198>I’ve interacted with demonsNo you haven't.
