Answering questions about Hinduism again until I get bored
>>41222528Hi OP. I'm the mahavidya anon if you remember. So far my Kali sadhana hasnt brought any changes into my life.As far as I understand, Kali worship can bring those things into life:>protect from evil energies, which is almost always a good thing, but also means that you wont be able to do things like Goetic magic>makes you fearless>can get rid of bad karma like no other deitywould love for you to add or correct
Does the cow god or whatever(not be disrespectful, I'm just uneducated) explicitly state it's waste products are equally holy when compared to it, or are indian hindus just anti-hygiene?
>>41222924Answered this a long time ago. Check the archives, but the short of it is that Indians used the waste products of cows for medicinal purposes. This functions with the same principal to how Siberian shamans used deer piss to ingest Amanita mushrooms. The difference being that cow waste was used for medicinal purposes. Again, the thing that made it good for various medical and antibacterial/fungal purposes came from the diet the cows ate. Alot of modern cows do not eat the proper diet, at all. >>41222906Remind me what your practice looks like
>>41223205>Remind me what your practice looks likebasic tantra: chanting mantra while focusing on the dot in the middle of yantra.you gave me the tip to do the same but with visualizing the yantra
What's a good mantra to generate preferable karma?
>>41223421You got to be more specific?What do you desire?Love seems to be the best thing around, and the greatest joy in heaven, so a love based deity is a great choice.Gayatri mantras of deities are generally a very good choice as well. A great practice is to do 100k chants of the planetary beej mantras or planetary gayatri mantras. Takes some dedication of course. But the planets are the material archons with sway over our material lives. Deities may correspond to a particular planetary energy, but deities are heavenly, whereas planets are materially focused, so the deities have authority over the planets, and far superior energies, with more love, wisdom, and personality. But the planets can act as a bridge to connect to the dieties in the first place.For example first do 100k Shukra mantra to teach the basic foundations of love, and the a love based deity like Krishna or Radha or Lakshmi will go much smoother.
How do you feel about non-Hindus practicing yoga?Is there any wisdom or practice from Hinduism that you think would really help a secular person, or is it all things you can't really do without belief?
>>41222906Kali is a destroyer deity, so if I were you I would expect some chaos and arguments. Starting a new practice you should feel karmas and samskaras being purged, and replaced with wisdom. So the beginning of the practice can be slow and uncomfortable. In my case when I chant Mars gayatri mantra, even just like 3 hours a week, I have seen it many times that fightings are stirred up, where people irrationally lose their anger at me out of nowhere, but this gives me a chance to work through peace keeping and conflict resolution, and so afterwards I gain courage, peacekeeping skills and an increased ability to exert my will. I'm always surprised how fast works to make changes like that. Similar things happen with Venus mantra, where my social interactions start to flourish, and people will come up to talk to me for socialization within minutes of me silently chanting. And deep rivers of love that only grow deeper.
>>41222528What is it about the poop?Why do they eat it?
>>41225161>How do you feel about non-Hindus practicing yoga?No one judges you for it, if that what your asking. Its very popular among white girls in some cities. >Is there any wisdom or practice from Hinduism that you think would really help a secular person, or is it all things you can't really do without belief?Hinduism is a religion that requires belief in God. The scriptures, and even more so the mantras, are considered as the divine words of God.If Bhagavad Ghita is the essence of the Vedas.Gayatri mantra is also the essence of the scriptures, that establishes a direct link to the inflow of God's love and wisdom.>Is there any wisdomIf you have an intellectual type of mind, maybe you would enjoy studying astrology, and looking at the transits and eclipses and how they correspond to major events in your life. Once you accept that astrology is your fated karma for this life, then maybe you can accept other things like the exist of God.
>>41222528How can yoga make you reach enlightenment
>>41225199samyama
>>41225199>How can yoga make you reach enlightenmentLook, it's not some magic key, but yeah, yoga can be the grind you need. Think of it this way: yoga is basically a cheat code for disciplining your mind and body.Enlightenment isn't about getting a secret Wi-Fi password to 'Cosmic Knowledge' or unlocking the universe's wisdom page. Real enlightenment is way more of a subtraction than an addition. It's when all the crap you've clung to, all the attachments, the labels, the baggage that defines your entire identity, just dissolves. Your soul essentially hits the reset button and goes back to its factory settings. That's the real win.Yoga helps because it's the training montage for your brain. The physical poses (asanas) and breathing (pranayama) aren't just for looking good in Lululemon; they make your mind and body strong enough to control your own awareness.It forces you onto a disciplined path where you become the 'better version of yourself', the one with a healthy body and a focused mind. When you're not constantly battling your own weak will and urges, you can actually follow a righteous or correct path.
>>41225173>What is it about the poop?>Why do they eat it?Get this straight, you absolute smooth-brain, there is no "tradition" in Hinduism where people eat poop or build spiritual practices around it. You're trying to troll with some gross internet meme, or stupid posts you saw on a forgotten corner of the internet.And if you wanna talk about real Hinduism?- It's a collection of thousands of divisions and sub-divisions. It's not a single rulebook.- You've got groups focused on pain, some on pure mind-stuff, others on duality, others on total non-duality.- The whole philosophy basically says: "Pick the path that works for you. There is no one universal way." You are free to choose, worship, or decline anything.Now for your low-IQ take, judging a tradition with 1.4 BILLION followers based on this garbage is peak intellectual laziness. The fact that you’re asking such a garbage question just proves your overall IQ is struggling to break double digits. That's pure, unadulterated stupidity. It’s just your weak mind grasping for something to feel superior about.Don't come back trying to be "kind and curious" after this. Your entire mentality and what you're trying to project is obvious based on the garbage you typed.
Dropping the biggest redpill in Sanatana Dharma... From S.B. btw
>>41225199Yoga is just the foundation that prepares you for higher meditation. Hindu enlightenment comes from meditating on God. The word yoga means union. The yogi strives to make union with God. >>41226766>Real enlightenment is way more of a subtraction than an addition. Pop buddhism is leaking again
>>41222924Veda does say shakrd(cowdung) and gomutra(cow urine) are clean. Its true cow piss has lots of amonia. And cowdung is also used to clean and even in exorcisms. But yeah, they need to be treated proper and that doesnt happen a lot.>>41222528Do you know anything about hindu or vedic palmistry? Generally interested in reading the body, but face and hands are the easiest to come by
>>41222528Reincarnation occurs within the place of residence/race or a completely random point where there is life?
Lost my trip>>41223336Your mind isn't settling down. relax into the practice. Your mind needs to unify. >>41223421Any mantra is fine man, go with Saraswati though. >>41225161Who cares? If someone's going to practice yoga, I say let them. The only thing is that if they're gonna do it, they should do it correctly.Belief in eastern religions ≠ Abrahamic ones. Faith is built in eastern religions in experience, not blindness. Far as what secular people can benefit from? Unification of mind and seeing that weird shit can be experienced. Even better if they learn to be humble. Western seculars have alot of bad bad karma and narcissism to work through. >>41225173Refer to the last thread. >>41225199Defilement of a person occurs through multiplication of the mind. Purification occurs with unison of mind. Yoga is the ongoing unification of the mind, making it bright enough to see through the darkness of ignorance and cut the chains of bondage we carry. Everything in yoga is to unify the mind. Think of yourself like a lotus seed. If life is like an ocean, yoga is what makes the lotus seed grow into a beautiful blossom.
>>41228561Reincarnation occurs in accordance to karma. karma is action generated by body, speech or mind. You might be reborn into the same race or family ...if everything is in place for that karmically and causally.But let's say you die with an unclean mind, years of terrible karma and your last thought as you're passing is an obsession with centipedes. Guess where you're going!The last thought you have as you die is extremely important, especially if you're someone who's never done yoga or anything like that. Your mind goes to where it's predisposed to. Without yoga or any basic spiritual/moral practice, your mind at death is gonna be propelled by the karma you created in life and any other volitional karma you're creating at the time of death (ie- your thoughts you willingly obsessed and thought over). Yoga cuts through that, morality safeguards it further. At death a true yogi has two destinations he is headed for; a good reincarnation or liberation.
>>41222528What branch of Hinduism? It has always been something that's interested me but since I'm a mleccha gora who doesn't like in india (kala pani taboo or something?) conversion isn't an option, or so I've been told. I know there's the hare krishnas and stuff but those are just scam cults right?
>>41231659*live
How will hindus react if they see a non-Indian to whom the gods gave siddhis? Is it still despised as an alien or respected because it marked itself in front of the gods?
>>41231735You get to keep your soulHahaNah really. In buddhism they eliminate the belief in an immortal soul, eternal abode of God, basically all that makes a religion, a religionBut on the surface they seem to practice the same. In buddhism they strive for dissapearing. Anicha, shunyata, anatmanAll those things which are abominable for a staunch dualist.
>>41231659Dont exagerate. Its okay that we are humble but dont become a doormatBelieve it or not swamis do convert foreigners but that brings out another problem: the comercialization of it allSome "swamis" are all too eager to take as many white or foreign disciples as can make their fame and influence growSo, if you are sincere first of all why do you wanna convert? The sincerity of your desire will bring the appropriate teacher
Alright, got my old trip back. >>41231659I'll tell you what I don't recommend; 1. Don't join modern reformist Hinduisms. 2. See above That's the big rub. Don't go joining anything that started after the 19th century. Learn about authentic Hindu religion prior to colonialism, then plug yourself into the current that seems right to you. But make sure you actually learn it and not take in neo-Hinduism instead.>>41231735What the shit are you asking me for? I'm not a christian, my job isn't to proselytize and convert you. This is a stupid ass question that comes in from being raised in a Christianized world. It's not my business whether you choose to be Hindu or Buddhist, many of the ancients didn't even make choices like that, they'd hold both at the same time. Make the choice on your own what you choose to do, but do it accurately and separated from Christian thought process. That way whatever choice you make is authentically yours. >>41232597Confusing sentence a bit, but if you're just generally asking what they'd do in the case of a non indian who got siddhi, they'd do the same thing as any other- they'd bow down. There's good and bad things to this. But give it a couple generations and they'll only bow down to you if you display the higher siddhi- wisdom.
>>41232793Keep in mind that a vast swathe of so called 'swami's available to the public are just total larpers. There's a huge problem in india- a lack of religious education on even the most *basic* aspects of hinduism. Alot of the masses in the cities (ie; new delhi) are only familiar with neo hinduism. Alot will know the basic rituals but not how or why they do them. The 'swami's' in these """""ashrams""""" are mostly total scammers, people who rely on a lack of education in order to fleece ignorant rubes of their money. They target primarily foreigners even more than indians for exactly that reason, if the indian may have a chance of knowing authentic hindu religion, the foreigner has effectively zero chance. This has gotten better slowly, but there's a lot of work that still needs to be done. >>41228512Major criticism I have with this translation is the use of the word Concentration. The proper translation would render concentration as "unification" instead. That said, this gets to the crux of what's going on during meditation on the gods. One becomes the god & retroactively has always been the god. >>41228274Gayatri good. Everybody interested in Hinduism should learn the Gayatri at some point.
>>41225173Hinduism is a very primitive, bicameral religion, born out of one of the most dysgenic low IQ populations (second to Aborigines only). Since these populations were too low IQ to invent efficient farming and storage techniques, seasonal fluctuations often lead to disastrous famines. Cows provided a source of nutrition during these times, in the form of milk. Indians couldn't understand animal husbandry enough to keep milk and beef production steady, neither did they invent meat or milk preservation techniques (not the lack of salting meat, dry aging, cheeses in Indian cuisine). So killing cows for beef would only lead to lack of milk. This made populations in the area evolve protection of cows into their religious doctrine.Cows became holy. Killing cows were one of the greatest affront to the gods. Since cows were/are considered very holy and unflawed being, cow poop and piss cannot be considered dirty.Hinduism obsession with bovine excrement evolved from cognitive dissonance. Humans are evolved to find piss and poo disgusting. So by eating it or using it Hindus affirm their religion by fighting the disgust that comes naturally.
>>41233800Sorry for the grammatical errors I'm on a train.
https://ignca.gov.in/Asi_data/9566.pdf
>>41231735Hinduism posits doctrine of "Atman", that The Self is the sole existant.Buddhism is all about "Anatman", that The Self does not exist at all.
>>41228552uhhhh Admittedly palmistry is an area I lack a ton of knowledge in. But the discerning of physical marks (facial, palms, general body) was used in a larger process of analysis rooted in astrology. You'll see a similar pattern emerge in some western astrological traditions that discern a certain variety of features appear depending on time and location of birth. Same thing in indian astrology.This branch of indian astrology had a couple of main features to it; 1. Discerning how best the individual can serve Dharma of Rta. 2. Locating important reincarnations (this interests me the most DESU when it comes to bodily marks)If you wanna learn more about the process of reading the marks of the body, look into the Samudrika Shastra
>>41233818https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aljTB_Emx4g
Jai Ram, can you faggots stop bringing up buddhism every couple of threads I do this? You're always trying to start sectarian violence. If it's not one thing, it's the other. This is completely unhelpful, if you're basing the foundation of your practice and understanding of it on who's wrong and who's right in belief, all you've done is recreate christianity. It's annoying and it's outright retarded.>>41233818>google aiFoolish. Secondly, westerners (even some indians modernly....god damn..) don't know this, but Puranas are how Hindus write their history. They aren't strictly religious texts and are typically written some years after an event. There's multiple of them, some with differeing opinions and philosophical pinings. This is all to say, not all puranas hold that the buddha was a 9th avatar of visnu. The ones that do are rather newer puranic texts AFAIR, composed by Gaudiya Vaisnavas (the lineage that would give birth to the Hare Krsna cult).
>>41233860The hindu variation of historical record keeping is different from the Christian one. Christian record keeping focuses on absolutist truths. The modernist off shoot to christianity (secularism) still upholds a generally Christian philosophy when it comes to Historical Truth. Specifically, that there are literal, exact, certain truths. All of which are leading to some kind of ultimate goal. This is wildly different from ancient paganistic historiography. The bias from modernists is that the ancients were trying to record literal events that lead to an ultimate unfolding. This couldn't be more wrong. A Purana is a Smiriti text. It's separate from the vedas and upanishads, it's function is to serve as a historical record. But historical records in hinduism have a larger purpose- to situate the individual in a narrative that draws on the philosophy of hinduism to understand their purpose in it. Thus historical events are interpreted from hindu understanding, allowing a narrative into hindu philosophy and ritual practice as it evolve(d). The Puranas are written by Rsi (seers), yogis of great meditative prowess. They were updated appropriately by the same qualified individuals. Upabrimhana is the process through which a Purana is meant to be updated. These Puranas would then be double checked for philosophical accuracy through analysis of the vedas, the oral traditions surrounding them & typically also the upanishads. Historical accuracy would also come into play, but the interpretation of it came first and foremost through understanding of the philosophy.This process has long since been stopped to my knowledge, due to colonialism largely.
>>41234051If you're sitting there thinking "why use philosophy to interpret history? Why use history to inform and transmit ritual?" The same reason we use literalism and the Human Progress myth to interpret history in the west. History is as much an art as it is a science. We use history to understand our place in the world. The literalist approach to history is extremely unhelpful. It's always going to be biased to a myth of human progress that's always going forward. The narrative approach is much more realistic, we don't function as literal creatures. The subjective experience of life is of utmost importance to us. By trying to record history in literal events, upholding a neutrality bias steeped in LARP of perpetual forward motion, we have made it so that we can justify the crimes of historical peoples by taking to one side or the other. This is precisely why we are in the situation we are in now, we have "all sides" the situation of the world so much that we forgot, some things are just flat out wrong to do. I am strongly of the opinion that the method of history keeping we see in hinduism, through purana, is better. I believe in a narrative history as being more accurate and easy to discern than a literalist one. This all said, there are weak and strong puranas. Purana's have not been properly kept up for some time. Any of them that start throwing another sect under the bus are weak IMHO. These tend to be Advaita and Gaudiya Vaisnava Puranas that get into this. There's three main types of Purana (modernly) which are organized by Vaisnava, Shaivite & Shakti. Purana has a fivefold system it covers typically1. Sarga: (cosmogony)2. Pratisarga: (cosmogony and cosmology)3. Vamśa: (genealogy of the Gods, sages, and kings)4. Manvañtara: (cosmic cycles, history of the world during the time of one manu)5. Vamśānucaritam: (Account of political dynasties)(Cont for more Purana Autism)
>>41234245As someone who never heard of puranas until now, that's very interesting. Can you give an example of how a purana would tell a piece of modern history? Say, the rise of Napoleon or WW2
>>41234245Some Puranas also have a secondary system; 6. Utaya: (karmic links between the deities, sages, kings, myriad living beings)7. Ishanukatha: (Tales about a God)8. Nirodha: (Finale, cessation)9. Mukti: (Moksha, spiritual liberation)10. Ashraya: (refuge)This all gives us a general feel for what a purana is "doing" and how it "does" it. This is one of the greatest misdeeds of modern hinduism, is that we see no modern updating of Purana. This form of history keeping is vital, it's meant to serve as a modern link between the ancient past and today. Modern Hindus are unable however to do this yet, they can't even locate avatars of gods anymore, physical or non-physical. Puranas are a light into the past. We can use them to conquer the darkest regions of our life. When we don't keep updating them, we lose out on something important-continuity. We forget why we have rituals celebrating the overthrow of tyrants. Why we record misdeeds even in our own sects.Hopefully this changes and we see Smiriti texts being properly updated again in a few generations.
>>41222528what is samadhi(inspired by the buddhist jhana thread)
>>41234306If it's focusing on only a specific piece of modern history, this would technically class it as an Upa (secondary) Purana. Lets say we have one that focuses on Napoleon...We'd give this the general structure of a Purana> SargaSo we know how we got here. >PratisargaSo we know where we are>VamsaSo we know where this came from. >Manavantara So we know what's going on.These would be laid out rather briefly, as the core of this text would focus on >VamśānucaritamWho is napoleon? What is his lineage? How did he get here? Why is he doing what he's doing? What is he doing that is right or wrong? What is the nature of his religious practice? This would have a heavy focus on Utaya (karmic links), showing us his relation to the gods if any (interpretatio Hindu, as it were), his ties to other political figures, sages and the various living beings in his territory (and beyond, if neccessary). We'd also All of this would play out in a narrative format, situating Napoleon as an example to be learned from, with special attention being made of Fate, Omens, etc. Things which were already an importance to his people, to such point Napoleon himself claimed that the spirit of Corsican Independence gave him plans for his escape of exile. This would also include a spiritual geography relevant to the area and a history of the relationship between the Kingdom of Mysore, Corsica & Britain. All of which is viewed through the lense of hindu philosophy, seeing what went right/wrong and where. Thus Napoleonic history becomes a total example to be learned from, for both philosophy & praxis. We can learn who did what right & wrong, and how these karmic ties between these people form an impact on the larger world around them. Similar with WW2.
>>41234375In a hundred million years, I would never trust anyone on this website to give an accurate portrayal of anything to do with buddhism. Anymore than I would trust them to give an accurate portrayal of Sikhism, Jainism or even much of hinduism.People on here LARP way too much for their own good. Especially when it comes to "shiny" religions like hinduism or buddhism. That all said, Samadhi is unification of the mind, absorbed through the object (if any) of meditation.
>>41234628>We'd also*We'd also get generally a 'zoomed out focus' on everything that's happening thus. So we don't just see Napoleon and his happenings, but the entire mandala surrounding him.
I'm not hindu but If I was; I have a special liking for Bhairava Shiva, and Chinnamasta Kali...I read a lot about the schools of hinduism, and the troubles within some of them.is "brahminic-vedic" really a different, OPPOSED hinduism to Shaiva-indigenous or shaktic-tantric-dravidian religion? If not; can one be a Vedic Shaiva?>pic rare bhakti saints
>>41234654Last thing...If we want to imagine a Normal, Non Upa Purana for the modern history. Imagine what it would be like if you could read a book that not only covered how all the major events happened, but what they mean on a philosophical level. How astrological or spiritual cycles effected them (if at all). If this Purana is dedicated to the manifestations of a specific god here and now, what would it feel like to you to see your istadevata's working in the world you know currently?If that book gave you a set of instructions on what to do during times like that? If it imbued everything with incredible meaning to it? What if that book told you what the 90's in a place like america meant? The spiritual essence behind something like grunge? If it even gave you an idealized form of a yogi wandering in a subculture you can remember?What if that book told you about the history of the internet, it's corruption, and how it should be administered in accordance to the philosophy that the book contains? If that book let you revisit all the important things of your time and place, and let you live in them like a myth, learn and embody deeper truths from it, what would you do? That should give you an excellent insight into what a modern Purana would look like.
>>41234707Sectarianism is mostly a modern problem. In the past the big issue was clans. Yes you could be a Vedic Shaivist. There's nothing that would stop you from doing that at all. Kashmir Shaivism utilizes the vedas still, even when it explicitly states what parts are or are not neccessary. Explicitly, Shaivism relies on an upanishadic reading of vedic religion. Albeit, through tantric methodology.
>>41234862That sounds really cool, but looks like a job very few scholars would be capable of without serious bias. Which I guess is why we have "weak" puranas, as you said
>>41222528Can one pray to or otherwise perform Bhakti to Parabrahman? How would one go about doing this? Good thread.
>>41233860>composed by Gaudiya Vaisnavas (the lineage that would give birth to the Hare Krsna cultTotal blasphemy to consider the shastras as composed by mere men. If you are indian(i'm not) then you should know Bhagavata and "vaishnava" puranas are also revered as apaurusheya and "cannon" in the shankara sampradayas. Swami Nischalamanda Saraswati and the other shankaracaryas lecture on Bhagavatam and observe vratas such as the sapta recitation of Shrimad Bhagavatam and they also wouldnt say they were composed by modern men
>>41232793I believe in reincarnation and vegetarianism instinctually which leaves the vedic religions as the main options for me.
>>41233800Cow manure gives life as natural fertilizer for crops.
>>41225165>Kali is a destroyer deity, so if I were you I would expect some chaos and arguments.Starting a new practice you should feel karmas and samskaras being purged, and replaced with wisdom. So the beginning of the practice can be slow and uncomfortable.Chaos and conflict has been my whole life. Only the past few weeks I've been learning about her. Now conflicts feel more like opportunities for growth. I've read she likes followers that keep getting up in battle no matter how many times they get knocked down. This fits with who I have been all my life.Anyway fascinating topic. Good info.
>>41236964Take what they said with a grain of salt. Calling Kali solely a destroying deity is inaccurate. Kali is a lot more than that. >>412359291. "Human" intervention in the Purana is already well known. The process for updating them is called Upabrimhana. Learn your history, literally!2. The people who are (supposed) to update them are meant to be other qualified & realized gurus. Not just your random Govinda from New Delhi. Not "Mere men".3. None of what you said contradicts what I pointed out with this in mind, Puranas historically were updated to keep them modern, by the appropriate individuals. These individuals do not exist (at this time.)>>41235717Unfortunately yes. You need Effectively a Rishi at best or very learned person at least. A destruction in lineage for hindu traditions has lead to alot of "tampering", as it were.No qualified people to update these, no updating. No lineage to safeguard teachings and produce qualified people, your texts start getting wonky.>>41235729People do that all the time. Each of the big three traditions (Shaiva, Vaishnava, Shakti) all have a variation on deity representing Parabrahman. Go straight to the source and learn about it there. A big draw to Shaivism is that Shiva as a norm has both Nirguna & Saguna attributes.
>>41237312As an addendum to purana talk, when we mention a purana being composed by Gaudiya Vaisnavas, we should take that seriously. Puranas need alot of care and study to keep them authentic and accurate. To say that puranas have been altered by some sects in recent years during the breakdown of indian religious life, is not an extreme thing. It's simply a fact. The same thing happened to the liberation shastras.
>>41237312>have a variation on deity representing ParabrahmanCan a person worship (Para)Brahman directly? Is there need for a deity to represent Him?
>>41237312Is it worth visiting a local temple to Kali here in NA? Or is it going to be full of fake scholars just looking to scam money?
>>41238550closest you can get is Shiva Lingam worship
>>41237312I do know the puranas draw from the already lost vedic samhitas but even this tradition of updating the texts is recorded. This here teacher updated the surya siddhanta when he was barely 14 years of age. But we're talking about material calculations of astronomy. At least the mula grantha should still be available for scholars to *update*. I dont believe just cause a text has been renderd for modern audiences that the older versions just get destroyed
>>41222528is it true that in hinduism a woman runs the material world, as maya shakti?
>>41238736Srshti sthiti pralaya sadhana shaktir eka
Bump
>>41239671i guess thats why the world sucks its ran by a women
>>41242343(this is joke kali ma im sorry)
>>41222528Does it condone spraying your liquid poop onto the clean streets of Toronto?
>>41222528why do indians put shit all over their bodies, what's the spiritual benefits of the poop?
>>41222528Why so many hindus worship post-vedic gods, like Ganesha, Kaali, Murugan? Are people unaware that they are praying to deities that originated in the Middle Ages which makes them, in fact, made up