Atheists can you riddle me this, if nothing was actually created, then why is everything a "thing"? Where is the nonsense in the universe? Look at your hands. If there's no creator how come your body is made up of so many different materials, flesh, bone, nails, blood. Why is everything ordered, why don't we see rocks or trees with the shape of a body, only statues made by conscious humans. You don't doubt your atheism at all even though you see everything is made up of so many specific materials and textures, and so many things having nothing to do with each other stick together to make up a thing, example the stomach of cows eating grass, fuck it even sperm and the ovaries, so many invisible forces driving the universe forward, so much harmony. This is what I currently struggle with, if anyone has a clear argument for this I will gladly go back to being an atheist within minutes. Again, try to look at something and realise it's not just one thing, but rather tons of different things at once, that form said thing. And the fact that you can't find nonsense anywhere in the universe is also creeping me out thinking there might be a creator/god. I mean what would you bring up, dark matter? Keep in mind I WANT to be an atheist so I am looking for an answer as to why this new obsessive view of the world of mine is stupid, I won't get mad
>>41233719You should read up on the anthropic principle. Your idea of harmony is skewed by your own existence. Everything that isn't "harmonic" has already met a violent end. It is similar to being amazed that water has taken the shape of its container, but on a universal scale.Even if there were a creator you would just end up asking the same questions of it and arriving at the same conclusion one layer higher.
Athiests are clinically retarded."B-but it doesn't exist broh!!1! I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist dewd!!1!" Literally that argument is self diagnosing as having severe Object Permanence. Just because I haven't seen my great grandmother does that mean she wasn't/isn't real? Sheesh...
>>41233719>if nothing was actually createdGoing to stop right here because I can guarantee you everything beyond this is predicated from this one line.No atheist believes there was nothing into something. The big bang model doesn't even say that. It says the universe always was in a cyclical motion of a big bang and big crunch like event, eternally. There was never nothing as nothing breaks uncertainty laws. Saying there is nothing is a misrepresentation of atheism and academic studies by Theists to discredit the community. Much like when they claim science and atheism to be a religion. Or use deceitful words like scientism, science worship, evolutionism, etc. You need to figure this stuff out on your own and think logically and it starts from learning as you already have a warped meaning on what science is. Probably because of corrupt religious heads feeding you misinformation.
And all the sons of men that were left upon the earth, became exhausted through evil on account of the rain, for the waters were coming more violently upon the earth, and the animals and beasts were still surrounding the ark.And the sons of men assembled together, about seven hundred thousand men and women, and they came unto Noah to the ark.And they called to Noah, saying, Open for us that we may come to thee in the ark--and wherefore shall we die?And Noah, with a loud voice, answered them from the ark, saying, Have you not all rebelled against the Lord, and said that he does not exist? and therefore the Lord brought upon you this evil, to destroy and cut you off from the face of the earth.Is not this the thing that I spoke to you of one hundred and twenty years back, and you would not hearken to the voice of the Lord, and now do you desire to live upon earth?And they said to Noah, We are ready to return to the Lord; only open for us that we may live and not die.And Noah answered them, saying, Behold now that you see the trouble of your souls, you wish to return to the Lord; why did you not return during these hundred and twenty years, which the Lord granted you as the determined period?But now you come and tell me this on account of the troubles of your souls, now also the Lord will not listen to you, neither will he give ear to you on this day, so that you will not now succeed in your wishes.And the sons of men approached in order to break into the ark, to come in on account of the rain, for they could not bear the rain upon them.And the Lord sent all the beasts and animals that stood round the ark. And the beasts overpowered them and drove them from that place, and every man went his way and they again scattered themselves upon the face of the earth.>Have you not all rebelled against the Lord, and said that he does not exist?
>>41233719Nothing. No thing. Answered your own question.
>>41233719If Christians are right, there's HeavenIf Christians are wrong, there's nothingIf Atheists are right, there's nothingIf Atheists are wrong, there's fireWanna gamble?
>>41234321Ah yes pascals wager.Does a finite crime constitute an infinite punishment? Just not believing in Christ gets you sent to hell eternally so what about the people on this planet who knew nothing of Christianity? What about mentally disabled people who can't even read a book? What about people in comas? What about the Sentinelese? Do they deserve hell?
>>41233874It's very good you stopped reading, I wanted to bring this point of discussion aswell, so if it was created by anything other than god, my question still remains the same, except I ask you how can an unconscious force do that. We can look at anything, I will see the exact same thing you see, but you believe it has a logical science explanation yet hitting me with a "we dont know yet, cant just assume god" well I assumed a conscious force for one, even the shape of an egg was made by an invisible force. seems so crazy to think it all just happened and it's laid out perfectly
>>41234346It recently dawned on me how atheists biggest reason to not believe is because they believe they don't have to be held accountable for their actions. If it wasnt eternal then the evil one commited to be sent in hell would always get away with it irregardless of how long it is. The consciousness factor also comes in, just as you bring it up, no, those people have invincible ignorance, they didn't consciously knew about the risk of hell and still deny it
>>41234351This is the problem with religious meddling. It wasn't created, it just was. This is hard concept to understand because it doesn't follow our normal human conventions or understanding. And that's okay, the universe doesn't need to. But the math is there to prove it. I also get that it's frustrating to hear an answer you don't like but unless there is other substantial evidence to prove otherwise you just have to move on. Religion gives the easy answer of "because God" but it doesn't actually answer anything. It just makes people feel safer of their own fears like mortality. Science doesn't have all the answers nor does it claim to. It is a method of studying the physical world around us through observation, experiments and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained. Science can be wrong and that's okay, we scrub the data and try again until we get it right. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes it can take longer. A lack of an answer doesn't prove the alternative.
Who created the creator?
>>41234380>they believe they don't have to be held accountable for their actionschristian projectionyou literally bypass personal accountability and social justice to people you hurt. you just pray to the sky rabbi and all your sins are forgiven lmao. you don't even have to be a good person. just suck up to the ego of the jewish god to get a heavenly ticket. there's a reason why narcissists and abusers love christianity.
>>41234351>the moon is drifting away from earth every year by ~3.5 cm>atomic clocks show that the modern day is longer by about 1.7 milliseconds than a century ago>earth will engulfed by the sun 7.59 billion years from now>if you live long enough, you will get canceryes mate, everything is laid out perfectly
>>41234924>why thing no stay still>why death realWhat is even your point?
>>41235277oh yes, this things make the universe perfect, it's like a fucking smart creator made all of this! no problems at all
Speaking as someone who is a former atheist and newly minted crazy person GOD YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING OBNOXIOUS.If god isn't obvious to someone. They're hiding. On purpose. Why? I don't know. But stop fucking with god's plan, religious person. You say you see the signs of god all around you, right? The only way the atheists don't is because it is being carefully kept from them. So KEEP YOUR FUCKING NOSE OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS.Jerk.
>>41233719There are no things in nature. That's man putting his ruler over nature and dividing it up in his mind. Man also creates gods and gives them power.
>>41234321actually since Christians and atheists both reject the truth transmitted by the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), there is fire for both of you.
>>41234380did you ever stop to think that the biggest reason to not believe is a lack of evidence?Unless you consider a book written by humans to be proof>a book that's been altered and it's interpretation changes to try to fit modern times>a book that they murdered the first guy to translate it because they didn't want common people to be able to read it themselves
>>41233719Ordered? Are comets and meteors "ordered"? No, the "Ordered" Universe is just depleted Chaos! The Human body has all those nice things like bones and such because they were "evolved" from proto-humans, and some of those arrangements were sub-optimal - IOW they sucked!. If you want to get "religious," then the Anunnaki built humans from proto-humans to do hard work, because their lower status gods, the IGIGI, demanded a Rest and went on strike! The Original story was not as pretty as the later Biblical version. Paradise was a prison, and humans were upgraded because one god, EN.KI, wanted them upgraded! The head god, EN.LIL, wanted Humanity destroyed for being too noisy, and he did not want any Upgrade - Both of them became the Schizo god YHWH, who didn't know what He wanted more, extermination or not! He is NOT friendly to Human progress, or marriage, or the Family, and only Christcucks say the Universe was created from Nothing so they can claim another miracle for their god. 'Created the Earth', Check'...
>>41234321>God is real and he sends Christians to hell and atheists to heavenWhat now?
>>41234321At least threaten us with annihilationism instead of the thought-up medieval control mechanism that is hell
The fact that literally anything exists at all is proof of God
>>41233719"atheists" know the universe was created. it just wasn't created by your faggy abrahamic god. I'm glad one of you Christ fags came out of the wood work. I was getting bored of belittling atheist fags, most of whom are just ex-christfags and just as insufferable
>>41233857And yours is self diagnosing as having severely mental retardation if you think you never meeting your grandma is in any way comparable to noone ever meeting god
>>41233719How do you know that this is existence? That’s just what we call it.Perhaps existence is actually something infinitely more existent that what we are experiencing. And this right here is nothingness.If you only ever lived in a dream, you could not see it as anything but reality.Without having actually experienced both existence and non-existence personally we can’t say if what we are experiencing at any given moment is one or the other.
>>41233719My favorite:>live wills itself into existence just because. >Inorganic matter transforms into organic matter that transforms itself into protein that transforms itsel into long complex strands of DNA that'll map out the evolution of life for millions of years to come>the exact sequence with multiple steps to produce something alive is done entirely by accidental chance. Yeah bullshit. Whether it be by a divine creator or an alien species, there's nothing accidental about life itself. The universe is like God himself with no beginning and no end. It's in a state of constant recycling where new star systems are born out of the dead ones. And we will never ever truly know even a tiny fraction of the actual history of the world.
>>41241841>Instead all matter in the whole universe existed in one small hyper-compressed ball that appeared out of nowhere, then exploded. Let's evaluate that. IF the big bang theory is correct, then could it possibly mean that our universe was shitted out into existence by a black hole's "white hole" on the other side of it from another universe?Never mind that galaxies do NOT travel in uniform directions from a given central point of origin, and are actually flying in all sorts of different directions and even into each other.
>>41234321Interesting that Jesus died for every sin except that one
>>41234321Pascal's wager has always been retarded. As if you can choose what you believe.
>>41233874>No atheist believes there was something from nothing>The universe operating on the laws of physics is timeless and eternalThis is a blatantly contradictory position. Ex materia is a pantheistic concept, as it places the universe(s) as the highest power of creative and destruction force. Distinguishing true atheism from pantheism requires an ex nihilo, nihilo fit paradigm to prevent the scientifically observable universe from being synonymous with divinity. I.e., the sum total of energy and matter in the universe is zero and time is an emergent rather than ontological property, therefor nothing truly exists, thus there is/was no creation. This is the only atheistic position that holds up to the scientifically acceptable epistemological axioms. This isn't to day you should avoid being labeled a pantheist rather than an atheist; the prior holds up much better to philosophical axioms.
>>41242417>ad hominem
>>41233719Hey atheists, if god doesn't exist how come>god of the gaps argument
