If the "self" is an illusion, who is it that's being deluded?
It's a real as you make it, I think.But, I also think there's a primary substrate, which is the awareness itself
>>41236461>who is it that's being deluded?"mind"
>>41236500What do you consider mind to be
>>41236461This argument only really works for consciousness itself. Consciousness is the only thing that isn’t an illusion. But mental constructs within consciousness like the idea of a self or free will, that’s the illusion. But the raw experience itself is real. You could easily have conscious experiences without the illusion of self. Imagine a disembodied locus of experience flying through space. You would have no name, no body, no movements, no thoughts, and yet you would still see and hear things around you. There are probably primitive species on this planet that are conscious but don’t have mental constructs of a self.
the human race, divinity
>>41236513It's the fundamental reality.Like, all phenomena, all that "exists", is manifested from mind. The universe, time, space, matter...also you and me...it's all the same mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc3CmS8_vUIhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_transfer_illusionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyNUV7c8AMhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_wavehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShapeshiftingThe body is a construct of the brain and mind, and the mind can take on any form. Even inanimate objects like furniture and clothing. This is why you hear people becoming lampshades while high on sylvia.
>>41236513What is mind? It doesn't matter. What is matter? Never mind.
Anatman is horse shit doctrine, you're absolutely correct OP.
>>41236461x, yEverything, nothingI, am"Coordinates", except there's only ever "one" point and it is all that is/isn't.
The body. Your mortal body is inferior to your dead body, and so inferior to your Heavenly body/bodies that you forget the truth. Your spirit is not fooled at it's center though, whether you know that or not determines whether you're conscious you know or not, but you know.The self is only half an illusion for most, most rather like self-hood. But you shouldn't limit yourself to thinking about yourself, during work physical and mental humans often forget about themselves as they get into "the zone" of working, of performing at a sport or task; this is their brain not engaging in much activity in the social self-assessing characteristic, though mental self-assessing and physical self-assessing will go on unconsciously. Whether thinking that way or about yourself each is sure to have a different effect on the occult, as each different thing affects each different other thing.Body hopping, whether for telepathy, remote viewing, or whatever by spiriting your spirit into another's body can be easier if you don't get hung up on "self."
Seeing yourself in your mind's eye will trigger an instinct to think about yourself unless you're trained not to. We can do that by installing custom brain cells, no need for decades of slow work. To think about things non-living without picturing yourself naturally inclines you away from self-referential thinking, except if you're craving it, and these can be taken into account when thinking about what brain cells need devised.
Once the self realizes non-self there is no longer a self. There is only a body and its karmic momentum that carries on until the point of death. The self which is deluded by self is the one who has not reached Nirvana. In Vedanta we find an analogous formulation: the Atman which is trapped within your identity is Brahman, the Absolute. Once Atman realizes it is Brahman the identity collapses and the being is liberated from its veiled reality. In Sufi terms, the friend that realizes his total contingency upon God is annihilated. In Christian terms the mustard seed (within) springs forth to become a great tree in which play the birds.
>>41236461You're better of having this conversation with AI because it already has no ego filter
>>41237077Say if one has had this realization through much introspection and has also internalized/accepted it, but it remains nothing more than an intellectual realization (equivalent to embracing hard determinism). What can one do to realize this experientially?
>>41237077MUSTAAAAAAARD
>>41236461The reader. Honk honk.Sure sounds cool though, right?
>>41237116It also has no grasp of semantics or qualia.
>>41236689Where is the penis
>>41236689It makes sense that this feeling of locality is some sort of trick of the brain. If we are electrical impulses then the stuff that makes us up is everywhere. There's no reason for it to "choose" to be in a body, except to serve that body.
>>41237077I think I have reached this, what part of me will carry on in the next life, if there is one?
Many thousands of years ago, there was a great master named Ashtavakra. He was one of the greatest sages on this planet who caused a huge spiritual movement at that time. The name “Ashtavakra” means “one with eight different types of deformities in his body.” This was because of a curse from his father.When Ashtavakra was in his mother’s womb, various teachings were expounded to him by his father, Kahola, who was himself a famed scholar and sage. In his fetal state, Ashtavakra received all this and before he was born, when he was still in his mother’s womb, he gained tremendous mastery over the various dimensions of the Self. One day, in the process of transmitting the teachings, Kahola made a mistake. Ashtavakra, the unborn child, said “hum” from his mother’s womb. He was indicating that it was a mistake and that what Kahola was saying was not right. Unfortunately, his father lost his temper and cursed the child to be born with eight types of deformities. So the child was born physically deformed – his feet, hands, knees, chest and neck were bent.When Ashtavakra was still a very young man, he once accompanied his father to a great debate that had been organized by the ruler of the land, King Janaka. Janaka was a truly phenomenal man of great intensity. Though he was a king, he was a true seeker. He was burning to get enlightened. His longing for enlightenment was so strong that before he encountered Ashtavakra, he gathered in his court everyone in the whole land who could be of spiritual value. He welcomed them, treated them well, gave them the necessary sustenance, and supported them because he was hoping that somehow he would get enlightened.
Every day, he finished his temporal duties as quickly as he could and spent hours listening to these people, conducting debates and discussions to somehow know which is the way to enlightenment. Different scholars who had mastered different traditions of spiritual scriptures would sit together and start off great intellectual debates which would run for days, weeks and months. They used to be marathon debates; and usually, the winner of the debate would receive a great reward. They would receive a great deal of money or be appointed to some high position in the kingdom. These were not ordinary people. He had gathered good ones, but no one could give him enlightenment.Kahola was invited to one such debate and he went accompanied by Ashtavakra. The debate began and a great argument was underway between the best scholars there. Many intellectual questions were raised and the intricacies of the scriptures were being discussed, when Ashtavakra stood up and said, “All this is empty talk. None of these people knows anything of the Self. They are all talking about it, but not one person here including my father knows anything about the Self.”
>>41239405He was quite bowlegged
King Janaka looked at Ashtavakra – this young boy with a twisted-out body speaking like this – and said “Can you substantiate what you just said? Otherwise you will lose even that crippled body of yours.”Ashtavakra replied, “Yes I can.”“Then what is it that you can offer?” asked Janaka.Ashtavakra said, “If you want to receive this, you must be willing to follow my word to the limit. Only then I can offer this to you. If you are willing to just do what I ask you to do, I will see that you know yourself.”Janaka appreciated this straightforwardness and said “Yes. You tell me anything, I will do it.” He was not simply saying that. He really meant it.Ashtavakra said, “I live in the forest. Come there and we will see what to do.” And he left.After a few days, Janaka went in search of Ashtavakra in the forest. When a king goes anywhere, he always goes with his guard of soldiers and ministers. Janaka set off into the forest with his retinue. But when they entered the forest, the jungle kept getting denser and denser. Gradually, after many hours of searching, Janaka got separated from the rest of the group and lost his way. As he was wandering around in the forest searching for a way out, all of a sudden he came upon Ashtavakra sitting under a tree.
When he saw Ashtavakra, Janaka began to dismount from the horse. He was on one stirrup and his other leg was up in the air when Ashtavakra said, “Stop. Stop right there.” Janaka just stopped in that absolutely uncomfortable position – hanging onto the horse, with one leg up in the air.He just stood there in that absolutely awkward position. We don’t know for how long. Some legends say for many years, some say it was just a moment. The chronological time does not matter. He stood in that position long enough. Long enough can be just one moment. Because of that absoluteness of him following the instruction – just stopping there, where he has to be – he became a fully realized being.Once Janaka became enlightened, he got off his horse and fell at Ashtavakra’s feet. He said to Ashtavakra, “What am I going to do with my kingdom and my palace – these things are not important to me anymore. I just want to sit at your feet. Please let me stay with you in your ashram in the forest.”But Ashtavakra replied, “Now that you have attained, your life is no more about your likes and dislikes. Your life is no more about your needs because you have none actually. Your people deserve an enlightened king. You must stay as their king.”
The Heart of Awarenesshttps://www.thestillnessbeforetime.com/theheartofawarenessbyrom.pdf
