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>>41286536
This is exactly what God does to us. He makes us all feel inadequates and we must live in His shadow, if we want to not go to Hell. God makes us live our lives in function of Him, following His rules and designs. The bible openly and crystal clearly states that the christians are going to live in God's shadow and it tries to spin that in a positive light, but as we can read above, what God is doing is evil. It is evil because He is making us live in His shadow. God is evil. He not only abuses us physically, but also spiritually and psychologically. This is why christians piss me of, because they say this entity is good and worthy of praise. Christians are exactly what people say they are, they have slave mind sets. Christian are weak and their book is evil.

It's narcissistic abuse cult reframed as divine and holy. Of course it came from the nose tribe

We chose to rebel against God and now He is saving us from that decision and want's to give us a happy existence by saving us from His punishment. How is that evil?

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

>mental health crises. (This one explains why Satan rebelled.

If there is no sorrow how will we feel anxiety, frustration and anguish? You're grasping at straws making your own head canon of what God is like, but it's not true. God is loving, nurturing, good, and merciful, which is why despite us being His enemies, He is longsuffering and didn't want to immediately destroy us and start again with creation.

2 peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

What Jesus Christ did on the cross for us shows that God is loving, otherwise He wouldn't have wanted to purchase us with His blood. Why else would He choose to suffer? You can't possibly make the excuse that you don't want to trust God because you think He is evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAtR40sue5M (How you can be 100% sure you're saved)

Revelation 1:5
“And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,”

Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man shouldboast.”

>>41286542
>He makes us all feel inadequates and we must live in His shadow
Honestly, I would not have that much of a problem with it, if the world he built for us would be a literal paradise. But the fact that he, the supposedy, all mighty all knowing all capable guy build such a piece of shit world full of shit sandwiches aplenty for everyone at each corner, makes me not accept living as his "shadow". Create a world? Make a good one and I'll worship you, otherwise get fucked.

>>41286536
The whole point is that you either merge with god or be annihilated
Annihilation means your flesh and your spiritual self cease to exist
God introduces himself as existence itself
Thus if you are not element of God you don't exist
The warnings about behavior are there because God cannot accept anything into himself that is imperfect, because he is perfect, so doing so would make him imperfect.
Scripture wants you not to try and be your own God because you are imperfect and will fail, resulting in annihilation.
It's just logical rules of reality. The stories about some punitive nature, are mostly just fables, so tards can comprehend this concept.

>>41286542
>He makes us all feel inadequates
I rather have the impression that he erases differences and accepts everyone, regardless of our flaws. What's more, to be saved, he simply asks us (not commands us) to believe. No need for money, no need for physical strength, no need for diplomas.

>>41287477
>How is that evil?
It is evil because none of us asked to be here. Plus we are suffering the actions of our ancestors, in this case two people, Adam and Eve. Do you understand that God is not fair for doing what He did? Adam and Eve were like babies, in their mentality. Do you think it's fair to punish a baby for doing something it wasn't supposed to do? You accept that as a fair thing because you did buy the dogma that God is all good and perfect. But if you are cold about it and use your critical thinking without bias, you will see that God is not being fair. The whole story is so convoluted. It's very fishy how everything went down. No matter how much the pastors and priests try they can't spin God in a positive light. The more knowledge I aquire and the more I study and the more I pray the more I see that God is not nice. There's something very wrong with this character, God. He may be made up. The God that is in the bible contradicts itself. He kills babies, but peopel say he is good and that killing babies is fair play? What the fuck? Killing babies is not OK. We know better than God at this point, if you really think that killing babies can be justified like God commands in the bible more than one time to be done. It's crazy. So I reject your argument because what you say is nothing new to me and it doesn hold up when we examine what you are saying.

>God is loving, nurturing, good, and merciful, which is why despite us being His enemies, He is longsuffering and didn't want to immediately destroy us and start again with creation.
That''s the problem. The God of the bible doesn't have those traits. LIke, not all the time. When people say there's like two God's in the bible, that makes a lot of sense to me. The bible says God doesn't change, but then God changes all of a sudden. No man can see God's face and live, but then Jacob fights God and wins. God is all powerful, but God gets beaten by weak humans. Aha. Like, dude, I'm not a child anymore.

>>41288521
I share a lot of your sentiment, my friend. This world sucks. People crete excuses saying that it is because of us, because of our so called "free will", which to me is a lie. How is it our fault that this world sucks? First of all. We did not create good and evil. God did that. Second of all, we did not create this reality, God did. The fact that we must consume other life forms in order to sustain ourselves perpetuating suffering because we slaughter the animals to feed and when we do that we cause great pain in them, a great amount of pain in inflicted, even if for a short amount of time. Like, even the cattle knows it is fucked and it is going to get killed and it cries. You can see them crying while going to their deaths. So in a lot of ways we are these cattle as well. As above so bellow. The same way the cattle gets slaughter we also gets slaughter. And all of that is thanks to God because this is His design. So like I said, I share a lot of your sentiment. How can God be all good? He isn't. God is also evil.

>>41288811
>because he is perfect
According to whom? Himself? Give me a break. THis is the problem. We mjst accept that God is perfect when all the evidences point the opposite, that God is probably mad and drunk on power.

>>41288851
He also aks you 10% of your income every month, thank you very much. Aha But that's another problem because that fucking book tells us that faith is a gift of God. So if the person doesn't have faith is because God doesn't want that person having faith. The whole thing doesn't make too much sense. It's full of contradictions like I said.

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>>41286536
Of course God is evil. Anyone who has seriously thought about religion and isn't retarded or insane almost instantly realizes this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZYWOzRF1yA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC0HnTYu_OI

>hierarchy descending from monarchy is offensive to post modern man

You're not nor were you ever the target audience

>>41286536
Yep, and the kicker is, in Christianity God could have easily made free will beings who are also just like him in Goodness.

They'd be ontologically in his shadow ( still bad ),

but it'd be less bad.

>But free will... have to be able to rape etc etc

Wrong. Does God have free will? Yes. Therefore, it is possible for God to create beings who are perfect and also have free will.

It's all unnecessary. All of it.

>>41289271
>Anyone who has seriously thought about religion and isn't retarded or insane almost instantly realizes this.
aha It took me some decades to start to question the so called dogmas. I always read the bible with a biased prima where I would ignore the little details that were right in front of me. For istance, the fact that they say God is all powerful and that God knows everything and that He is everywhere, but somehow, sometimes, God lacks power or God doesn't know what happened or God is nowhere to be found. I guess we are in a point where religion has become so corrupt that it's almost impossible, even for dumb people like me, to still believe in it, especially the catholic church. The Catholich church is pure evil. It is the church of the antichrist it seems. It's crazy how the antichrist took power of the image of the christ and uses it to legitimate his power while hating Jesus' message of Gnosis. Crazy.

>>41289440
>It's all unnecessary. All of it.
Well, God gets to be worshipped and shit. People kiss His ass and shit. He gets to be validated or something, by us. We get to sing how great He is and He gets to listen we singing how great He is and shit. Like, it strokes His ego.

>>41286536
>Christians piss me off

So go eat your boyfriend's HIV shit and die of it

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>>41286536

>>41286536
God loves you too much than to enable your whiny delicate narcissism, you ungrateful little brat shit. Every day you wake up, you have your creator to thank for. You didn't do shit yourself. And of course, predictably, all you would do on a given day after waking up is bitch and whine about how horrible it is to be alive anyways. Poor little you. Cry about it bitch boy.

>>41290710
Pure copium actually

>>41289180
>Adam and Eve were like babies, in their mentality.
Adam was made in the image of God, so I think it was actually the opposite. We are probably like babies compared to Adam who likely all sorts of amazing abilities and a miraculous mind. Just because we're not told the exact specifics of what happened doesn't mean that we should automatically make our own assumption about what happened in a way that makes it look like God did something wrong.

I don't think there are contradictions in the Bible, but there are actual bible apologists who's explanations about these "contradictions" like seeing the face of God and so on you could be satisfied with. That is, assuming you actually want to be proven wrong and not insist on your assumptions about God being correct

You should watch this video if you're not convinced the Bible really is the word of God: youtube.com/watch?v=9l5ZEsXjNVI

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>>41286542
All the pain, passions, sin, in the world is a result of a copium for a old wound. the separation with the creator
>>41290505
>>41289271
>>41286536
You’ve probably noticed that most people have a naïve confidence in the truth of their opinions—without ever having examined them—and often believe these opinions come from God, accurately reflecting divine law or doctrine. In reality, they have no idea whether this is what God actually said or intended. What we find, instead, is blind faith in one’s own opinion and infallibility. Sadly, this phenomenon is widespread.

When a person fails to question their own ideas or apply critical thought, they’re not expressing reason but emotion—an impulse to impose their feelings on others. This becomes a struggle for psychological dominance, driven by the urge to intimidate, subjugate, and feel superior. None of this has anything to do with faith or the search for truth; it stems from the lowest human instincts.

If we examine Gnosticism, we see that the supposed opposition between “salvation through knowledge” and “salvation through faith” makes no sense. This comparison assumes that Christianity and Gnosticism share the same purpose and differ only in method—one through faith, the other through knowledge. But they are, in fact, entirely distinct and incompatible phenomena.

First, what the ancient Gnostics called “salvation” had nothing to do with what Christianity means by the term. Nor did their “knowledge” resemble what Christianity or the Western tradition calls knowledge—be it scientific, philosophical, or practical. The Gnostic idea of knowledge was something radically different, something we would no longer call knowledge at all.

>>41291503
Moreover, the Gnostic believed that this “saving knowledge” was revealed by a transcendent God through messengers. Thus, the process of Gnostic salvation could never begin with knowledge—it began with faith. Faith led to knowledge. This alone shows how crude it is to oppose Gnosticism and Christianity as “salvation by knowledge” versus “salvation by faith.”

The Gnostic’s great concern was human suffering—seen as universal and almost invincible. They sought its cause in the very origin of the universe. In Christianity, creation comes from a good and loving God; evil enters the world through demonic suggestion and human will, not as a cosmic principle but as a moral one. Humanity’s fall is tragic but not irreversible; divine mechanisms, especially the Incarnation of Christ, restore what was lost.

Thus, when Adam and Eve are expelled from Paradise, the universe itself is not corrupted—only human life becomes harder. Any environmental or material degradation results from human action over time. God did not ruin creation because of sin; He simply required that humanity now live by effort rather than ease.

In Gnosticism, however, there is no original human sin. Evil originates from a demiurge—a lesser god who, against the will of the Supreme God, created and imprisoned humanity in the material world. This world, therefore, is seen as irredeemably corrupt. The first “knowledge” of Gnosticism is precisely this: the conviction that the cosmos itself is evil. The second is that human beings once existed in a pure, spiritual state and fell into matter. Salvation, then, means escaping this prison and returning to that higher existence.

>>41291506
Gnostic schools differed on how to achieve this. Some sought liberation through extreme asceticism, others through unrestrained indulgence—both forms of self-destruction. What they called “knowledge” was not knowledge in any rational sense but a mythic belief system. The opposition between “faith” and “knowledge,” therefore, is false, since the Gnostic “knowledge” is of an entirely different nature.

In the Western tradition, the only faint parallel is found in Plato’s notion of “recollection” of eternal forms—an echo of preexistence, though not the same idea. Plato never claimed another mode of being, only a prior awareness lost and partially recoverable. To call him a Gnostic would be mistaken.

Gnosticism, unlike Christianity, arose not from revelation but from experience—the experience of absurdity and suffering. Anyone who has endured war, illness, persecution, or catastrophe has felt, at least for a moment, that the world is senseless or hostile. Even Christ, on the Cross, expressed this feeling: “Father, why have you forsaken me?” This was not disbelief but the expression of human anguish—a momentary impression, not a doctrine.

The difference is that the Gnostic transforms this feeling into a theory, proclaiming it a universal truth. Christianity, by contrast, recognizes the same experience but interprets it differently: as a trial within a fundamentally good creation. Even in the darkest circumstances, traces of goodness and love persist. Hence, Gnostic doctrine appears as an immense exaggeration—a poetic impression mistaken for a cosmic fact.

In Christianity, creation is good in essence. Evil exists but does not define the universe. Heaven and hell are not earthly realms; this world contains aspects of both, yet remains neither. In Gnosticism, evil is the very substance of the cosmos. In Christianity, it arises only from the misuse of freedom—always at the devil’s suggestion, never by necessity.

>>41291512
Modern thought since the 18th century has been deeply infected by Gnostic ideas. The search for an impersonal, superhuman cause of evil—something beyond individual responsibility—is everywhere. Rousseau’s claim that “man is good, society corrupts him” is a classic example: society becomes a vast, external machine that corrupts the innocent individual. That is pure Gnosticism—the displacement of responsibility from the human to the supra-human.

Sociology, as founded by Émile Durkheim, follows the same pattern: social facts, he said, are external to the individual and exert coercive power over him. Yet these “facts” are the cumulative result of human choices over time—what Scripture calls the “sins of the fathers.” They are not divine or demonic forces but the moral residue of history. We may inherit their consequences, but not their guilt.

There is, therefore, no external force that compels evil—only one that tempts. The devil can bark, but he only bites if we let him. Evil arises solely from the misuse of freedom, which, accumulated through the ages, gives the illusion of an impersonal, social, or cosmic power. But it remains human in origin—and only divine grace can finally undo it.

>>41289440
>God could have easily made free will beings who are also just like him in Goodness.

Well if He did that, you wouldn't come into existence, some "good" beings would exist, but not you.

He specifically chose for you to come into existence and took all the hell punishment due you upon Himself on the cross, and then is ready to use His omnipotent power on you to change you into a "good" person fit for heaven if you allow Him.

The choice now is in your hands.

>>41286536
Christ is King.

>>41291751
It was unnecessary for any suffering or Hell to be met out on anyone because;

He could have just made free will beings who are also just like him in Goodness.

Purely unnecessary. All of it. I won't bow to that. Even if it were true.

>>41292009
>He could have just made free will beings who are also just like him in Goodness.

Ok, He could have. But none of those "good beings" would be you. You could come into existence only through this system that is in place.

m,y father says we have borrowed power and we must rely o n him
i cannot say i cannot prove him wrong so yes he;'s righ about that.

saturn isn't all bad.
but in essence you should never disrepsect the gods because they know better then you do.

and i mean it.
that said
christains pray to saturn weather they willingly or unwilling know about it
you are al chidren of saturn weather you like it or not.
the verse has 2 meanings mr abraham.

and another reason 8is because saturn is known for cdurety to anyone who he thinks threatens ihis rule
aka holy people

just look at how many witnesses and phophets wherte kiled and even his disiples

you cannot make this up.
as much as i love my father you ned to question this very deeply

i'm not saying anything to disrespect him but you eed to be realistic is what i mean
if you worship a god you know it inside and out.
and al names of it and its nature.

>>41286536
I don't think god is evil, maybe Christianity paints him like that but I don't think so. There's good reason we have the things we have even if in a way they create a bit of suffering in the short term. Much like a parent they are doing things for our good even if at the time we don't see it.

However want I do believe is that this over the top devotion to god quite often is a negative emotion created by a variety of things done usually out of desperation. Following the parent analogy this level of godly worship would be like living your entire life sucking your mothers breast never doing anything without them in the room to save and help you.

Rather then becoming their own individuals with their own agency they cower in gods shadow using him as a shield to save them. No need for self reflection, no need for improvement, no need for anything god will deliver. They almost want their free will taken away and let big daddy god decide for them.

I know god will always be there to help me if I so ask for it as he will for everyone regardless of their sins, it doesn't mean I love ONLY for him and by him.

>>41286536
You can't make slaves want freedom. They have to find out the hard way.

>>41289180
Christians, or monotheists in general will never give you an honest answer here. It's been over 2000 years and they still do not have an adequate answer to the problem of evil. Every one they have come up with requires some sort of cognitive dissonance to accept as a viable answer - which is similar to what they do when dealing with the God found in the Old Testament. The Abrahamic religions are just a crude and bastardized version of Platonism (this is where they got the concept of God being all good from, Plato asserts you must lie and censor to maintain this 'truth' lest people will give up in the face of reality), which wasn't iterated on until the enlightenment, which in turn pretty much killed the Abrahamic world view in the literal sense and relegated it to the rhetorical/mythical. When you are dealing with Christians remember that almost every single one that claims to be one today is also a rampant materialist which means they don't really believe a fucking word their holy text says as it requires them to give away everything and live in complete poverty, and there are but a handful that do this. Christianity is only ever used as a way to grandstand and gain a moral high-ground and to silence a world view they refuse to engage with as they cannot deal with the existential dread involved in doing so. Next time a Christian is on here posting ask them how they are doing it because by all rights they should have no personal property, that or they don't believe a word they are saying and thus their view can be discarded because they do not believe a word of it themselves.

>>41292650
There are a near infinite amount of examples of senseless, meaningless evil and suffering in this world. A good, all powerful God does and cannot create anything evil/bad because it is the sole creator and anything created that does bad would be external to it as it is all good and everything from it is good. But if we have to concede there are things external to that God - because evil exits - then it stops being God because things can be created outside of it. Either everything in this world is good, including things like suffering, child rape, torture and genocide (which in that case every action is permissible because everything is good) or God is just as evil as the picture this universe paints of him.

>>41292052
The system is arbitrarily decided by God. He could magic you into existence any which way he decides because he is all powerful and not bound to the logical laws of this universe. We coming to into existence the way we do is an artificial system created by God - he could have easily and trivially created us perfect and with perfect free will but he arbitrarily decided not to do that. God is the source of sin because he wanted us to be the way we are - he would have created us differently if that were not the case and it would have been trivial for him to do so. God dying on the cross is God paying for the sin he created and forced us to experience. It's his debt, no one else's.

>>41286536
Its true though. Only an atheist would think they can redefine what is objectively true based on their feelings. We live in the real world, not your fantasy where you are the most powerful thing in existence

>>41290531
Why would you assume I have a boydriend? Hum. Interesting. I think this says more about you than me. You are projecting your gayness unto me. Give me a break. Christians piss me off because they lack critical thinking skills. But there is hope. Just be honest and accept that you have been lied to and that you have been mislead by the so called church. The biggest shame is to continue living the lie that the church promotes. That dead ritual where no miracles happen. No religion can cure a blind man for instanc. Jesus could, so they say. So I know that all religions are BS because they can't perform miracles.

>>41290773
This guys gets mad when someone question God. The bible says God doesn't need nobody deffending Him so why you mad, bro? Why do you get mad when I question the dogmas? I'm grateful to some extand, but how can I be grateful for being limited and having to follow orders and work in things that I hate and be explored and so on and so forth? Life is a prison, dude. It may not be to you, but it is to a lot of us. I'm not thankful for being in this reality. I hate it. I'm not thankful for having to take a shit everyday. Fuck that. Having to piss and eat everyday. Fuck that. Fuck this limitations that are imposed into us. If you want to be thankful to God that is your so called choice, but we have the right to question God's authority. And it is people like you who keeps us under chains. It people like you who justifies God's tirany. You like your condition of slave. You live being told what to do and how inadequate you are and how dirty you are. You like that, don't ya? You learned to like that. It makes me sick.

>>41290848
>apologists
This is funny. People have to "apologize" for the bible. Ultimately we all know how absurd verything that it is tehre really is, so people have to "apologize" for that and create ways to justify all the atrocities that God does.

>>41291751
>The choice now is in your hands.
What choice? We don't have any choice at all, in the sense you are implying. What choice Jonah had, for istance? God made a "whale" eat him and there he stayed for three days, so they say. Only when He gave up and decided to do what God wanted He was freed. Where you see choice I see God putting a gun to your head and you better to this or otherwise... So no, we don't have a choice. Faith is a gift. Do you even read the fucking bible? It says there that faith is a gift from God. So God is the one who decides who will have faith and who won't. God decides pretty much everything, that is why He is God. If God was not in control then He would not be God at all. God decide things. We just live the consequences of what He does. Colateral damage. Think about Satan. Satan was colateral damage. We did not create Satan. God did. And Satan tricked us. This angel God created made us sin. We suffered colateral damage because God could not or did not want to preserve us from Satan's evil influence. God wanted us to sin in order for us to be durty. Now that we are durty we need Him to clean us. And after He cleans us we will start praising Him and boosting His ego. You just never did stop to thnk about this. You never really questioned anything.

>>41293568
God and the bible is the 'for babies' version of something way more technical.

>>41292650
This guy is cool in parties, I can tell.

>>41292928
Thanks for the light.

>>41293592
Care to elaborate?

>>41293548
Yeah apologist is a bad word, I guess I just meant Bible teachers in general who also focus on these common misconceptions people have about the Bible.

I can't convince you, but I really you watch this video I linked already: youtube.com/watch?v=9l5ZEsXjNVI

God really exists and He is not what you think. He doesn't want to punish us but He doesn't want to treat us as dolls either and remove our free will to make decisions. Salvation is a freely given gift to any human and there is nothing that you have to do to accept it, just receive it and you have it forever.

youtube.com/watch?v=EAtR40sue5M

Romans 3:23: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Jesus Christ is God who has come to earth from heaven in the flesh. He died as a sinless sacrifice for the sins of the whole world to save you from eternal hell, the punishment for your sin. He was buried, then resurrected and is now in heaven. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Romans 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
John 10:28: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

youtube.com/watch?v=BbPchtYsXNo
youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntc

>>41292928
>Next time a Christian is on here posting ask them how they are doing it because by all rights they should have no personal property, that or they don't believe a word they are saying and thus their view can be discarded because they do not believe a word of it themselves.

Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3:24-25: "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

youtube.com/watch?v=9l5ZEsXjNVI
youtube.com/watch?v=EAtR40sue5M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS78mFJcvhQ

>>41286536
>But, "living in someone's shadow" means living a life of dependence

It is like God is giving you 1 billion dollars and you're rejecting it saying "I wanna earn it on my own".

This provision of God only exists for humans, it doesn't exist for angels. He is our "Father" and a father is a provider first and foremost. To the angels He is a "Father" in the sense that He provides them wisdom and guidance, but if the nature of an angel becomes "purely corrupted", it is straight to hell for them, no provision from God is provided them then. But to us humans even if we become purely corrupted, Jesus has taken the (equivalent of) hell punishment due us upon Himself, and then provides us His omnipotent power (if we allow Him) to change our nature/personality and make it "good enough" or "fit for" heaven.

This is where "making him Lord" comes in, all of our minds (at least in part) have become "purely corrupted", meaning we can't change it since it is the very defining feature of that part of the mind. So Jesus says "you won't be able to change it anyway, so let Me rule over your mind, and I will use my omnipotent power to change your mind and thoughts (and hence actions) to make your nature 'truly good', and you just come along on this free ride with Me to heaven where we'll enjoy life for all of eternity". But the angels have no such option.

Satan & demons actually envy us due to this, because as soon as they're corrupted it's straight to hell for them. The demons have built an ego in you and then hurt it, and are trying to take away this "free ride to heaven" from you (which they don't have an option of).

See Jesus' sacrifice and the option of His Lordship as a metaphorical billion dollars He's giving you every instant (because on the other side of it is a life of joy/bliss in heaven for eternity). Rejecting Jesus' "free 1 billion dollars" every instant because it would be "living under His shadow" doesn't make much sense does it?

>>41292009
>He could have just made free will beings who are also just like him in Goodness.

Well if He had made such "free will beings perfect in goodness", none of those beings would be "you". You are "you" because you were born with ability or an inclination towards some sins/corruption, take that away and you wouldn't be "you".

His solution was to take all the hell punishment due you on the cross so that your sins may be forgiven, but simple forgiveness isn't enough because He can't have you sinning against the people already in heaven (for example: punching someone in heaven out of anger), so your nature needs to be purified before you enter heaven. To purify your nature, He then provides you His omnipotent power if you allow Him to change/purify your nature/personality and make it fit enough for heaven.

If He directly created a "purified version of you" that being wouldn't be "you" either, it would be some other being.

All these options of Jesus' payment on the cross and Him providing you His omnipotent power to purify you don't exist for angels, but only for humans. If an angel's nature becomes purely corrupted, it is straight to hell for them, nothing more is provided them. But humans have all these extra options.

I think you have a lot of the same doubts as OP, I have explained all this in another way to him, so read it too (though some points might be reiterated in it) and then we'll discuss it further. This is the post : >>41294853

>>41286536
Oh look op you've made a whole thread dedicated to your own ignorance and lack of ability to think deeply or properly understand anything! What's more you've got plenty of other midwit "gnostics" circlejerking with you and feeding each others undeserved egos.

Let me guess, your life hasn't been filled with every pleasure and vice you ever wanted, so that must mean god is actually just a really big stupid meanie right?

>>41293170
>Only a believer would think they can redefine what is objectively true based on their feelings
Fixed.

>>41295015
How does people dying of cancer or due to not having enough food/water make you "feel"?

>>41286536
Revelation isn't a real part of the Bible it was added later

>>41295010
Ad hominem. You did not provide a single argument to back up your point of view.

>>Oh look op you've made a whole thread dedicated to your own ignorance and lack of ability to think deeply or properly understand anything!
Let me ask you something. Where or when did I claimed that I'm an enlighted being?I never said that. And I want to be honest here. I'm ignorant. There are a lot of things and concepts which I don't understand or don't even know it exists. How can a human being know everything? So we will always be ignorant in some part of our lives. I may not be ignorant about certain subjects while beign ignorant about others. How can people know the truth if they can't talk about stuff? Why you mad, bro? The fact that I'm reaching out to you guys means that I'm trying to think deep and properly understand everything. When you start to assume things about other people that's a sign to me that you have prejudices. My life is pretty good when compared to someon who live in India or whatever country where people live in a dictatorship, but my life is not good as the life of someone who lifes in the USA for instance. But what we all share is the fact that we are human beings and the human condition it's not ideal. You are just like the church. You don't like when people start to question your God and you get mad and you name call, ad hominem. The church doesn't want us talking about their dogmas and stuff because we will see through their lies and we will be free of their mind control.

I don't understand why christians get mad when we question. God says in the bible that He wants people who worshipp in truth and spirit. Most peopl don't even question what they are being feed information wise, right? So the fact that we are questioning makes God happy because we know we have been lied to and now we want to find out the truth. And if God is really like the christians say then it won't be a problem to question God because God will give sign that He is indeed

>>41298363
good. The world would be so much better if everyone questoned everything. If everyone really dared to question the so called pope and his ations and the actions of the so called churches. If everyone questioned them then things would be better. We must put the church and their leaders and even God under scrunuti.

>>41286536
Heteronomy and hierarchy are parts of your own nature and coming to terms with them are essential aspects of self-realization. That said, "the shadow of the Almighty" is the universe and "the shelter of the Most High" is the heart. "Rest" means pax profunda.

>>41298363
Op you started the thread asserting your absolute opinion, and then have done nothing but argue for it and refute anything other than the people who agree with you. This despite your own admission of being ignorant. You're clearly not here to learn anything like you claim, but instead just to affirm your own opinion and ego. That same ego is what keeps you insisting that God and his scripture is evil just because you can't properly understand it. You are as yet spiritually immature, and as long as you follow in the footsteps of the angel of rebellion, you always will be.

I'm not going to explain anything to you, both because it would take far more time and too many posts, but also because I know that I'm a poor teacher compared to experience. The spiritual journey is a lonely one op. You can find a million people, and listen to all of their various advice, but it all means nothing if you yourself lack the experience and wisdom to correlate it all. You have to find the answers yourself op, because the journey itself is the teacher.

On that note I'd recommend looking into eastern orthodoxy, as they've kept much of the proper mysticism and meaning intact. Even then though, it still requires a lot of contemplation and research before the mysteries start unraveling, so best decide whether you're actually serious about enlightenment, or if you'd rather just stay lying in the false comfort of your ego.

Lastly, I'm not Christian, nor am I of any abrahamic faith. I just understand the scripture and the truth of things.

>>41299735
>Even then though, it still requires a lot of contemplation and research before the mysteries start unraveling
It might take very little research depending on the starting point. Those who have a strong inclination for reading must do a lot of it before that attachment is overcome in earnest and the kernel is extracted from the husk. In this day and age, an illiterate has a distinct advantage on the spiritual path.

>>41299758
I feel like you're just someone who doesn't like reading, and wants to justify that aversion to it.
Or maybe you're right though, who knows.

>>41299814
I'm a bookfag with spiritual aspirations, that's how I know.

>actually im on par with he who made the entirety of all of which i am but a small fragment of

>>41290848
Adam canonically lived for over 900 years, so

>>41300397
Yeah and Adam also was able to name every animal. I can't even think of a single username:

Genesis 2:19 "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."

If we were in Adam and Eves position it would have likely resulted in the same scenario happening. But God understands, and that's why showed mercy and gave us salvation as gift. Even though we messed up and couldn't use our free will rightly, He didn't want us to be separated from Him. But because God is not a tyrant who forces things on us, He gave us a choice to decide if we want to rely on Him or not.

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:" (Romans 5:1)

Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

youtube.com/watch?v=EAtR40sue5M

>>41286536
>One more signal that God is evil

What's a God? What does that word mean?

>>41299735
>Op you started the thread asserting your absolute opinion, and then have done nothing but argue for it and refute anything other than the people who agree with you.
I decided not to reply to all the comments because some of them are nothing new to me. When someone starts to use random bible verses in order to try to influence me to believe in them then I don't appreciate that. So I just ignore it. I like to reply to comments which makes sense to me. I know the bible. I don't need someone sharing random verses with me. I want new information or new arguments and new point of views. I'm pretty sure you guys know what I'm talking about. We have to keep digging for new information. John 3:16 doesn't mean anything to me anymore. If God so loved the world why allow it to fall to such a state where you have to sacrifice yourself in the form of your own son? I would like to see God in a positive light here, but I just can't. It sucks to see God as evil, but that's what the signs are pointing to. Something doesn't add up. I think we can agree upon this, that something is wrong. We may disagree about what is wrong, but we definitelu agree that there's something wrong with the story we were told. God is very suspicious. How can we really know if God is good? How can we know that God doesn't lie to us? We don't know. That's the point. We have faith. But God could lie and we would never now. God can manipulate tima and space, He can erase our memories, He can freee time and stuff. My point is that there's no way to know if God is lying or if He is telling the truth. I can lie to my children if I want and if they are naive they will never know. They will only know once they aquire knowledge and then they will be able to discern my BS and realize that I was lying. Knowledge enables us to realize when someone is full of shit.

>>41302217
>What's a God? What does that word mean?
Good question. I feel like people don't ask question like these anymore. It's like they think such a concept like God is easily explained. God means generator, operator, and destroyer. It's very hard to define God. But that's what the word God means basically. Again, it means generator, operator and destroyer, GOD.

>>41302483
>Something doesn't add up. I think we can agree upon this, that something is wrong. We may disagree about what is wrong, but we definitely agree that there's something wrong with the story we were told.

This alone is proof of your immaturity op.
True spiritual awakening begins with the realization that absolutely nothing is wrong whatsoever. Everything is exactly as it should be.

>>41302483
>God is very suspicious. How can we really know if God is good?

We exist, therefore God is good.

>>41286536
OP is an anti-religious fucktard who has absolute ZERO PROBLEM with AI 'living in the shadow' of mankind being that it is OUR creation, and was CREATED to SERVE us.

He will also have ABSOLUTE ZERO problem with us putting any and all kinds of restrictions on what could eventually become a intelligent being just as SENTIENT as us, and hitting the OFF SWITCH on it if it starts going Skynet.

Further, if they want to test AI robots in a virtual world before allowing them to operate in the real world around people and our children, OP will have ZERO issue with them being tested in all kinds of torturous ways to ensure its obedient to point of self-sacrifice.

OP can't put himself in our hypothetical CREATORS shoes and see our role if there were a god, and our role as His creations. He assumes humanity would have the RIGHT over life and death, and to order around our creations, but somehow doesn't think an actual God of our universe should have those same rights.

Clueless fucktard. Just watch how quickly these moralising fucks will treat actual AI robots worse than even Old Testament God ever did. You sometimes don't even have to wait that long, just like that Youtuber dickhead who shock collars his dog just for moving off it's bed, might hurr durr about God telling him not to be a homo or whatever.

>>41288811
>God cannot accept anything into himself that is imperfect
Then why are all of God's creations terrible?

>>41303368
a.i. is not a living being.

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>>41303380
Proof OP is also literally retarded.

1. Prove that you are sentient.

2. It doesn't need to be to argue the point since it could get to that point and then what arsehole? You just let it run amok? You're implying you'd be okay with that. That somehow Dr. Noonien Soong doesn't have any right to shut off Lore in Star Trek.

3. You're looking for a distinction without a difference so (You) can get to do what you want with your creations, but God doesn't get to do what He wants with His. There is no difference in principle.

Your only problem remains is your inability to put yourself in the shoes of the Creator and the creation. It doesn't take much imagination to realise why a God who is good would put a couple of humans in a garden and tell them not to eat a fucking apple to see if they actually do it or not. Even ancientfags could figure that much out. So what you're telling me is that you're more retarded than a Bronze Age fag.

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>>41286536
yeah the waters that were in the reflection where the mentral waters from his birth. He saw his reflection in the water and nothing else and claimed to be God, the Only God. This claim can be refuted by a higher power.

>>41286536
damn you're so stupid. During summer when me and my son are outside playing or whatever and find no shaded place for a break I stand in the sun and let him rest in my shadow

>>41302638
Do you realize how silly you look like when you say this? A lot of us don't share this feeling that the fact we exist is a sign that God is good. This is not evidence that good is good. It is not an evidence that God is good because evil people can create other beings to explore them. What makes you feel sure that God did not create you in order to explore you? In order to make you work? Because we all gotta work. In some form, we are bound to work. Our energy is being used or channeled to something we don't know. When we get angry or when we fuck or when we pray, all of that generates waves and shit, energy fields and shit, electromagnetism, invisible shit. So I hope that you can at least realize how what you said is not a sign that God is good. I mean, I can use myself as an example. I can grow animals just to fuck them, literally, if I want. I can cultivate animals and then kill them for their meat or skin or whatever resource I can get out of them. God may be using us for something we don't even know about. We may be electrons in a bigger scale of the universe. In our reality if we zoom in we will find electrons and shit which we can't normalize see. So above as bellow. We may be electrons of a higher plane of existence and we are the things which carry energy and shit. I mean. We don't know. That's the point. We don't know, but you act like you know. And that piss me off, my friend. This is one example of why christians piss me off. They are delusional and they want their delusions to be an absolute fact. It's crazy.

>>41303368
He doesn't realize that is exactly because I did try to put myself in God shoes that I tend to believe He is an evil motherfucker. What kind of being limits other beings for His own personal Glory? Only an Evil One. Your hate doesnt affect. I'm not anti religious, I think I may be anti christian, an anti christian mind set. The more I live the more I tend to believe that the christians are the evil ones in this whole story because of the whole story of the bible. God is a bloodthirsty demon! That's why He demands blood! You can't argue with me on this one. God demands blood. What kind of being demands blood? A fucking demon, that's who. You have ad hominens, but zero evidences that God is good. All the evidences points to God being Evil. There's no way around it. All our world is based upon suffering. From day one we enter this world crying and that is a signal of what is to come. Don't give me the BS chritianity mind set slavery that it is our fault because we did not create this reality. God did. God created everything. Even evil. And it says so in the bible. That is the most funny thing. It is right there in the bible how God creates good and evil at a whim and you guys can't face that and all you have is ad hominem.

>>41304117
I just hope you are making your son be self suficient and teach him to be free for himself and not relly on you for everything, even breathing and shit. Because if you don't do that you are a control freak.

>>41305536
Nah dude, it's the greatest of all truths. You just don't know it yet, and might never if you can't get your head out of your own self pitying asshole

>>41305581
Multiple times in this thread you've said how god is so mysterious and how we couldn't possibly know if he's good because he's a being so beyond our understanding. And yet here you are acting like you fully understand his intentions and that he must be evil. Why? Because you think so? How arrogant are you to think you could possibly think as a god does? He created and understands literally everything throughout all time and space, and yet here you are pretending you're so smart as to have him all figured out. How could you possibly know whether his actions are evil or not when you have such a miniscule comprehension about the universe and its machinations.

All of you gnostics really annoy me. You're all so egotistical and full of yourselves for thinking "bad thing happen so that mean god bad!". It takes a lot more brainpower to realize that the evil he created serves an important purpose in the long run. I mean come on just think about it a bit. Would an evil god ever admit to creating evil? Don't you think that if a god is insisting that they're good, then such an admission means that evil is a necessary part of that goodness? I don't feel like it actually takes a genius to work this out, nor contemplate the ramifications of it. But I'm sure you'll only think as far as "but, but, but, he literally said he made evil, and a good guy would never do that right?!", and then go on pretending you're right about everything.

We get it dude, you've had some hardships in life, just like everyone else. The difference is that most of us actually learn from those challenges instead of turning into whiny gnostic faggots

>>41305581
This is such self-centred Plebbit-level 'Baby's first philosophy' bullshit.

God having limits and laws against doing evil shit is somehow in itself evil. Same mentality we are currently getting from Lefty psychos who blame the cops or ICE for arresting people breaking laws - point out how they use force even though there's no 'nice' way to do that they'd ever be satisfied with. You probably thought your mother and father ... or more likely just mother because your father was out of the picture ... was evil because she told you not to play on the road or stick your hand on a hot stove. And your such a stupid retard you probably did stupid shit anyway and are now pissed off your life isn't going so well.

Also as to the blood thing, PROTIP: If God exists then when you die you're not 'really' dead. You have an immortal soul, so nothing that happens here in the corporeal sense matters shit in the long run, and your spiritual being matters infinitely more.

If you bought an AI sex robot and it disobeyed because it couldn't understand the point of particular sexual interactions, considered them 'weird' or illogical would you consider it defective or let it just do whatever it wanted instead?
>inb4 some stupid plebbit-brained shit about 'evil' robot rape or something

>>41306121
You can't explain this to retards because they don't want to see it. Like that old saying about getting someone to understand when their livlihood depends on them not understanding.

Most of these faggots are literally gay and decided God must be 'evil' because God hates fags. "God, stop not liking what I like!" That's the full extent of their thought process, and this motherfucker sounds like a homo to me.

>>41286536
You'll burn in Hell, Loser.
Well aren't you so edgy!
Im guessing you're some Jeet scumbag

>>41286536
There is no God and there is no evil. The fact that you believe in both is a disease on your mind. They are illusions like time and money and death.

>>41286536
What's the point of OP? You people act like these books are just a set of rules that you can choose to follow or not rather than understanding that's they're more like laws that everybody is subject to whether they want to be or not. When you understand that it's impossible to go against God's will, things will make more sense. There is nothing that happens in God's kingdom that they don't allow.

>>41286762
These are laws by God. This isn't some subscription that you can pick and choose to follow at your leisure.

>>41305974
Zero arguments. You have faith. A blind one it seems. You have no moral ground or authority here. All that you are doing is making christians look bad and dumb, confirming my suspicions that the christian faith is like a cancer to mankind, a cancer which keeps us from being a health society, an not only christianity, but like people say, the abrahamic religions in general. It keeps us from being a health society because they lie to us and they create a bad environment where we are under chains of superstition which take away the joy of being alive and living. Instead of being full of joy we become filled with hate for ourselves because the church says we are bad people and we deserve to go to Hell. Anyway. Christianity as it is now is a cancer. Jesus Christ, man, christians like to brag that we must love our enemmies. Wtf? It's self destruction. If you love your ennemy he will destroy you while you are asking God to bless you. It's like havng a guy raping your anus, but instead of becoming angry and fighting the guy you allow him to rape you plus you ask God to bless him! Wtf? I'm sorry, this is not a good example, but it will do to show how absurd the crhsitian mind set is.

>>41306121
>Why? Because you think so?
Because of life itself. Because of teh reality that we live in. You know, I did not always tend to believe that God is evil, but now that I'm older and mature and lived a handful of differente exeriences and faced different situations, yes, I tend to believe that God is evil and that the bible is an evil book. If I can't think like God it's because God limited me to be inferior. But I can't allow that to stop me from trying to think like God. What's the point of thinking like a human being? Human beings are lame. We are pathetic. We get happy with bread and wine and circus. There's nothing wrong with an individual trying to think or act like God. In fact, that is what Jesus said. Jesus said we must be like Him. So there's no contradiction when I try to be like God or try to think like God. I know that I'm limited, but what then? You believe in the bible, man. How do you know that is really God's word? God asked peopel to kill children, infants, babies and women. What kind of benevolent being does that? I have the right to try to udnerstand why God would do such a thing and teh conclusion I have come is that He is evil. A tyrant. A control freak. It makes a lot of sense. Chistianity doesn't make sense. It's full of contradictions. And people like you claim it's not contradictions, you guys claimed we are just dumb to get it because we are not God. So we just gotta trut that which is written and have faith. Give me a break. Look, man. I'm getting annoyed with you. I'm gonna stop right here. You think I'm full of shit, but to me you are the one full of it.

>>41306262
>God having limits and laws against doing evil shit is somehow in itself evil.
God allowing evil is evil in itself. Why would you allow evil to exist? Why? It creates suffering. People suffer. Children die. People get raped. People live their wholes lives believing a lie and in the end of their lives they never get the reward they so desired because it doesn't exist, everything was a lie. aha Look what you are saying, man. You criticise me, but the things you are saying are just stupid. You are trying to say that my life is not going well and that's why I'm mad? Dude, give me a break. Look how selfish you are. I like this kind of comments because it hilights both our mentalities. You are claiming that you are a christian while I don't claim to be one. Ok. Now, you are implying that if my life was doing great, if everything was going my way then I would have no reasosn to complain about God or be bitter about God. That is what you are implyign with your dumb comment. But I'm not selfish as you are. At least I like to believe that I'm not. Even if everythign was great with my life I still would think bad of God because other people are suffering. I may have a house and a roof over my head, but millions of people they don't. How can I be happy when I know that other people out there are suffering? Aren't we a society? Aren't we, like, hard wired to live as society? Then I can only be happy when the whole world is in order. Until then how can I rejoice? I will try to rejoice, but then I will hear the person next to me crying and because I can relate to my fellow human beings my happyness will be no more and I will feel sad. You are just selfish because you are worshiping the god of this world who is the devil and he made your life great. You are just selfish. You are not a true christian, it looks like that to me.

>>41306326
I'm not a jeet. Thank your for showing you prejudice and ignorance. Have a bless day, saar.