>>41363988
Previous thread >>41299646

>>41363988
This list is a deliberate attempt to confuse people by mixing a few orthodox things with a pile of condemned heresy and occultism. Both the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches condemn this.

The reason this list is so deceptive is that it mixes legitimate Apostolic traditions (St. Bonaventure for Catholics, St. Gregory Palamas for Orthodox) with Gnostic and occult systems that are totally incompatible with Christianity.

Gnosticism, Sophiology, and Traditionalism (Perennialism) are all formal heresies. In fact, Sophiology was explicitly condemned by the Eastern Orthodox Church itself.

Rosicrucianism, Anthroposophy, Martinism, and Swedenborgianism are not 'esoteric Christianity'; they are separate occult religions.

Divine Love (Padgett) is just spiritism.

The most important thing that unites Catholics and Orthodox against all of these groups is Apostolic Succession. Both our Churches trace our authority and valid sacraments back to Christ and the Apostles. None of the groups on this list can do that. They are man-made systems, which is why they are rejected.

>>41364486
>This list is a deliberate attempt to confuse people by mixing a few orthodox things with a pile of condemned heresy and occultism. Both the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches condemn this.
The list is a neutral compilation of different topics related to Christian Esotericism, I don't believe in half of it either but the topics are there to be broad enough for various types of conversations
>Gnosticism
Yes it's a heresy, but the Christian Gnosis in the list is the tradition of Clement and Origen of Alexandria
>Sophiology
It is controversial but only in Russia and that controversy comes from a misunderstanding, thinking Sophia is some sort of fourth Hypostasis when no one claimed her to be
>Traditionalism
Not the biggest fan of Traditionalist Perrenialism myself, but that doesn't stop many members to be very knowledgeable, but usually, the Christians who were part of the current tended to leave it after some time
>Rosicrucianism
Original Rosicrucianism was just authentic Lutheran Esotericism, modern Rosicrucianism are made up of various scams
>Anthroposophy
Yeah not a fan either, but I have some respect for Steiner
>Martinism
Originally authentic, now a scam, also look up Joseph de Maistre
>Swedenborgianism
Yeah
>Divine Love
I have no idea what that is, an anon added it

How, genuinely, should a Christian perceive Halloween? I originally believed All Saints Day was inspired by the pagan practice, until I discovered it used to be on various dates across the liturgical calendar, including during May and Easter - so the idea it "copied" from the pagan idea of the boundaries between the world of the living and the dead is a myth propagated by wiccans. Should I be more on my guard from divinations during this time? Should I even participate in pumpkin carving?

https://theaeolianharp.substack.com/archive?sort=new

Views on the comet? If it comes to Earth supernaturally, should we take it as Gods sign?

These threads need to get even more esoteric. When are we finally gonna combine Hesychast practice with ritual? Why is no one looking at ancient Christian grimoires and practicing Hesychast style prayer in the areas it says to do so before hand?
This is such an obvious thing but I've never seen anyone in the thread experiment with this.

>>41365738
Because divination is of the Devil.

>>41365745
I didn't even mention anything about divination though
What even is the point of you being in a Christian esotericist thread if the first response you have to mentioning "we should do more esoteric things" is to say "it's from the devil"???

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>>41363988
i can't stop thinking about julian of norwich and her vision about jesus and the chesnut. any insight on her?

>“And in this [sight], he showed a little thing the quantity of a hazelnut, lying in the palm of my hand as it seemed to me, and it was as round as any ball. I looked therein with the eye of my understanding, and thought: “What may this be?” And it was answered generally thus: “It is all that is made.” I marveled how it might last, for it seemed to me it might suddenly have fallen into nought for its littleness. And I was answered in my understanding: “It lasteth and ever shall, because God loveth it. And so hath all things being by the love of God.”

any guides to get into hermeticism?

>>41365420
Halloween is a very beautiful holiday and it should be celebrated, the image of halloween is something that developed inside the USA, but because of that it has also been commercialized like Christmas
>>41365717
The more i read about Second Temple Judaism and the Apostolic Fathers the more i understand how much theosophy continues those traditions
>>41365732
Poimandres is based on the Timaeus and Genesis
>>41365738
Grimoires already talk about ascetic practices as a prerequisite for practicing what's in them, but grimoires are worthless, the only "good" ones, Liber Honorius and Ars Notoria, are just about the Beatific Vision and knowledge of the Liberal Arts respectively, today we comfuse magic as the path to God, but for Agrippa, magic is the result of the path to God, and Paracelsus explains that a true magus doesn't need any rituals, just his imagination
>>41365781
The chestnut sounds like the "microcosm"
>>41367990
What is called Hermeticism now are various groups that have no idea what they're talking about, then there's the Hermeticism of the Renaissance which is overblown, only Lodovico Lazarreli is a real "Hermeticist" in that era", si there's only antique Hermetism, which is a separate religion from Christianity, you can read the Corpus Hermeticum for that, but you won't understand the historical context of it

>>41368094
>various groups that have no idea what they're talking about
but is there anything to learn? I only got into this board because I found out about Christos Oil. I want cool occult shit to live by

>>41363988

I still don't understand how chi ro is supposed to be recognized by anyone as short for christ, I don't believe that's what this symbol meant. Names were never abbreviated like that and nobody has used CHR as short for jesus. Plus he didn't speak greek at all. I dont believe that Constantines vision was of a christian cross, he clearly saw a pagan sun cross and the christian dream interpreter lied or misunderstood. The whole story around him is refabricated, just like the whole jesus mythos around some loudmouth judean schizo disrupting both parties governance.


Anyway Celsus was always right.

Why is it that miracles only seem to happen for Orthodox and Catholics? Have you ever heard of an Anglican or Lutheran miracle?

>>41368235
There is lots to learn, the Hermetic texts are an important influence on Medieval and Renaissance Christianity
>>41368307
The staurogram existed before the XP
Constantine was of Illyrian descent and was born in Nissus, today Nis in Serbia, the Illyrians were Latinized but before that they were Hellenized, Jerome who was Illyrian as well was a Polyglot, he knew his tongue, Latin, Greek and Hebrew, and since Constantine moved the capital to the east, while he grew up in a Latinized environment he probably knew Greek as well, even if just a bit, like Justinian centuries later, who was also Illyrian
Constantine's beliefs are a bit mysterious, but from what you can gaher from him, Julian the Apostate and some fragments, Illyrians might have had some sort of Henotheism with a Sun god at the center, because after the Crisis of the 3rd Century most Roman Emperors came from Illyria, as by then they made up most of the Military, Roman religion seems to heavily shift into having Helios/Sol Invictus/Apollo as their central deity, which us unlike the Greek focus on Zeus and the original Roman focus on Quirinius, Jupiter and Mars, that's also why Julian the Apostate who was Illyrian and schooled in Neoplatonism wanted to replace Christianity with a Neoplatonism where Helios is synonymous with the One
So Constantine also probably associated Christianity and Jesus with his Henotheistic beliefs
>Anyway Celsus was always right.
The reason you know Celsus is because Origen refuted him, and to do so he had to quote him
>>41368405
Evangelicals and Charismatics have dozens of reported miracles as well, Anglicanism and Lutheranism is just much more obscure as they don't have that many followers in Europe, and the Anglican and Lutheran countries are secular now with a large amount of non-religious people
Jakob Böhme, Johann Georg Gichtel, Emmanuel Swedenborg, John Pordage, all have interesting stories connected to them which can be considered miraculous

Have studied occult, it is useless delusion.
Agrippa eventually figured that out.

>three large books, which I called Of Occult Philosophy, in which what was then through the curiosity of my youth erroneous, I now being more advised, am willing to have retracted, by this recantation; I formerly spent much time and costs in these vanities. At last I grew so wise as to be able to dissuade others from this destruction.

>>41368556
Magick does not work.
That is why we invented science and technology instead of "swing a chicken over your head to treat malaria".

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4000BC

>>41317210
really nice
>>41352738
great idea

>>41365781
she cute

>>41365781
>chesnut
hazelnut
similar to acorn, except more tasty lol
chestnut has too many layers to be relevant to that vision

pray for the Jamaicans

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Let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one

>>41370424
What did Jesus mean by this? What were the Apostles going to defend themselves from?

Ive come to the conclusion the reason the east-west schism will never heal is purely because of tribalism.

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What did you do today to fight the antichrist system?

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anyone else love that 'bout here err' body should be."

>kind of the sign it is?

>>41369659
Jamaicans are cool and peace-loving but what relevant Saints are there we might pray, so they pray for them?

>>41370707
Can't say but probably Aquarius, based on my dreams.

>>41370723
John of Nepomuk, patron saint of floods for both Catholics and Orthodox.

>>41368094
>Second Temple Judaism
>theosophy continues those traditions
That's unfortunate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yElv72F5F-s

do orthodox jews even believe in the talmud?

>>41371144
They believe in the Mosaic narrative, which is almost as demonic.

>>41370691
I rejected the Mosaic narrative and the worship of the demon Yahweh. In it's place, I've put the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ. I honor his Father, El Elyon.

>>41371226
What's does the name Jesus mean?

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>>41371144

Almost no one even reads it. That shit is the size of an encyclopedia and the most boring book you will ever read

>>41371226
What does the name Elijah mean?
You read into the Bible too much. You are like the pharisees.

>>41371226
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=begKyhTWkhQ

>>41371196
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1q5Ek2L8-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh50mcSU6Zg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pEYG4n3vyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7kLKN8m_Nc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MKiLbH1Qzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMXozksQzXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDQSUfIV3_A

>>41364486
most of the shit OP lists is just thinly veiled masonry
there is absolutely no reason at all to associate the desert fathers or Clement with that garbage
they would in fact denounce it, if they were still on earth

>The Élus Coëns is an esoteric Christian order founded in 1767, with its focus on establishing an invisible church, independent of any earthly structure, to find the path that leads to the hidden knowledge of nature in anticipation of the coming destruction of the material Church.

The goal of masonry (in the form we know it today) has always been the destruction of the Catholic church.
Before it took the form we know of in modernity, after the protestant "reformation" and the subsequent termination in construction of the gothic cathedrals the original and true Masons occupied themselves with, this wasn't the case.

But the end of their real work in construction forced them to open their doors to aristocrats and wealthy merchants to remain solvent, who had a different kind of construction project in mind.
Real craftsmen have an affinity for work with natural substance of stone and wood, whereas this new and monied blood had always been more concerned with bending men to their will. Social manipulation, domination.
Instead of stonework, they would peddle influence, and instead of great churches they would build unholy edifices of men locked together with blood oaths as mortar in conspiracy. Reshape society itself according to their whim, fashion men to their end as if they were just another brick in the wall. Chip away the slough, smoothe out the rough edges, so to speak. In the end the only legacy of true stonemasonry left in the organization were the mere trappings of symbolism and innuendo.
From reshaping a stone according to a geometric design, to the reshaping of men and society at large according to certain principles in the creation of a new world order.
The grand lodge was formed primarily to neutralize the activity of the Jesuits.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H78KaUYGYkY
https://onepeterfive.com/the-sacred-heart-the-most-precious-blood-and-mystical-chivalry/

24 You shall make an altar of earth unto me, and you shall offer upon it your holocausts and peace offerings, your sheep and oxen, in every place where the memory of my name shall be: I will come to thee, and will bless thee.

25 And if thou make an altar of stone unto me, thou shalt not build it of hewn stones: for if thou lift up a tool upon it, it shall be defiled.

...


1 And Moses with the ancients of Israel commanded the people, saying: Keep every commandment that I command you this day.

2 And when you are passed over the Jordan into the land which the Lord thy God will give thee, thou shalt set up great stones, and shalt plaster them over with plaster,

3 That thou mayst write on them all the words of this law, when thou art passed over the Jordan: that thou mayst enter into the land which the Lord thy God will give thee, a land flowing with milk and honey, as he swore to thy fathers.

4 Therefore when you are passed over the Jordan, set up the stones which I command you this day, in mount Hebal, and thou shalt plaster them with plaster:

5 And thou shalt build there an altar to the Lord thy God, of stones which iron hath not touched,

6 And of stones not fashioned nor polished: and thou shalt offer upon it holocausts to the Lord thy God:

7 And shalt immolate peace victims, and eat there, and feast before the Lord thy God.

8 And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law plainly and clearly,

9 And Moses and the priests of the race of Levi said to all Israel: Attend, and hear, O Israel: This day thou art made the people of the Lord thy God.

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Kinda related but lit synchronicity just happened
On the left is a drawing I made last july that I just titled "Sophia"
On the right is a random painting I just found on the internet made my some woman for a church in San Francisco
Notice the writing, and the "rainbow aura" behind the character
Note that I had no idea of the existence of the painting on the right

https://holystonesandironbones.com/2025/03/08/working-in-that-good-old-fashion-way-the-bible-in-appalachian-folk-spiritual-practices/
https://holystonesandironbones.com/2025/03/09/working-in-that-good-old-fashion-way-genesis-ii/

>>41371144
They are supposed to accept the Mishnah which is the Oral Torah written down, it's the basis of the Talmud, the other part, the Gemara, are commentaries on it which also contain debates
Basically Mishnah New Testament, Gemara = Church Fathers
>>41373180
18th Century Masonry contained within itself a Christian Esotericism which was replaced with Moralism after the French Revolution
>>41374923
Christianity in the first centuries A.D was dependant on the Paradosis, the Tradition handed down by the Apostles to the Church, and that Paradosis was a Gnosis, a Knowledge above any rationalization, it came down from up high, that's why Ignatius of Antioch wrote that he had comprehended the Powers and Principalities, he was taken up and came back down like the Prophets, by the time of Origen the Paradosis had to be written down, and began to also exist inside of Theology so that it can be somewhat grasped

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>>41371144
they probably whip it out when the debate gets heated, for which I could hardly blame them as they might be having the same debate and reinventing the wheel instead of progressing the issue

>>41375334
any good English editions of the Mishnah and/or Gemara?

>18th Century Masonry contained within itself a Christian Esotericism which was replaced with Moralism after the French Revolution
pic rel is not really relevant, but worth mentioning anyway... mainly concerns England / France / Germany... probably other places too, although I only read the first chapter... believe me even the first chapter is enough to blow your mind and recognize patterns in current day affairs

>>41373180
>masonry
depends on what you mean by masonry... its most obvious characteristic probably is that you take a very general oath that ends up putting the masonic organization above your free will (and the Word of the Bible)

other than the oath, there is nothing wrong with "masonic-type" organizations as they are an off-shoot of living in cities
both pre-Christian Judaism and Christianity are by excellence a city-linked religions (contrast it to Hinduism which is exclusively rural: no matter how big their "cities" grow, they will still technically be towns)
since we are today are living in the "global village" (AM radio, satellite TV, internet, smartphones...) no wonder that both European institutions and Christianity are being eroded: no more cities where you can find great neighbors; even freemasonry died out because of this, in a VERY short time-frame (1950-2010s)
in my opinion we should have drawn the line at steam trains: both city friendly and saves the lives of horses

>>41364486
the Church is against representing exception as the rule
by clearly marking them "esoteric", it should tell anybody (maybe except yourself) what's the deal with them

Bump

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Sumens illud Ave
Gabrielis ore,
funda nos in pace,
mutans Evae nomen.

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is the symbol on this shield similar to anything you anons have seen or is it some random shit?

>>41378529
sure, there are four or five symbols which you could easily figure out for yourself... yet their combination doesn't make any sense (except for marketing purposes)

>freemasonry
just look at this thread of freemasons taking shin-kicks at each other for not being "real" enough
pretty insane, but a necessary vaccine
>>>/pol/520118471

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/COg5bgE5oKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kde9uUy13uU

How do we interpret the parts of the bible where the Lord destroys cities and favors certain tribes??

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7fNd1ARXE

https://www.rtmullins.com/podcast/episode/23cfd84a/ep-181-the-atheism-of-william-lane-craig

"In defense of Paganism"
https://youtu.be/9zibbLCqZu8?si=dvWUM9wAMnEN9y7A

>>41379384
Gregory of Nyssa's Life of Moses explains some of it in the mystical sense, the Egyptians drowning in the sea being equated to the passions and purgation.

>>41379312
>there are no demons... but there are demons
poor man thinks "daemon" and "demon" can be conflated... in fact they can't... he even says so: evil spirit... in greek daemon is more or less "spirit", while we could translate "evil spirit" as demon (in current usage)

>>41379364
I'm not surprised that 1 Enoch makes people (literally) shit themselves. 1 Enoch is a witness account, part of the Bible or not, if you read it you can't deny it. Same for the book of Dan(iel)... which, I've seen, is denied by some.
As the people of the Angel Isle say: the proof of the pudding is in eating it.

>>41363988
>list
can we maybe add composers?
Bach was protestant yet also composed some Catholic works which are unsurpassed even today
Monteverdi composed bawdy madrigals yet also the first person to have composed orchestral pieces with a Christian theme
Anton Bruckner was basically a mystic
there are probably more

>>41379579
Wow.

>>41379579
>starts every video with an appreciation of Mary, mother of the Christ, may he have mercy upon us sinners
incredibly based
may the Mother of Christ pray for us, sinners. Amen