How does one begin practicing Neoplatonism? I have little experience spiritually or philosophically but I want to develop.
>>41376321Where's the diagram from?
The specific Theurgic rites and contemplative practices used by Proclus and the guys are somewhat hard to come by as far as I know. Haven't read this book, but I've heard good things about it so you might want to check it out.General advice is learn how to meditate, actually study the philosophy (you don't get to skip that), contemplate the higher realities that philosophy describes and work on your virtues (lessen your degeneracy). If you're a christian there is plenty of mysticism you can draw from, if you're a pagan you can check out some re-constructionist rites, and if you're not theologically inclined stick to contemplation and virtue
Also, there is overlap with Neoplatonisma nd certain schools of hinduism, might want to look into that. Pierre Grimes probably has some good advice as well, since he was an actual practicing spiritual PlatonistBut the MOST general advice all agrees on is to detach your mind from the senses, IE; meditate.
>>41376398Unsure, but it's of Proclus' metaphysics>>41376426Thank you, do you have any material on meditation too, as I am inexperienced in that direction too?
>>41376398Here: https://esotericarchives.com/proclus/metaelem.htm
>>41376754>do you have any material on meditationSadly not really. I've just done it based on standard advice, not exactly a hierophant myself. But you need to get a grip in the basics first anyhow>Sit in comfortable position>Focus on a specific thing (breath, external object, etc)>Observe but don't interact with thoughs>Return to object of focus if you get distracted>Repeat>Do this for a set time each day>Gradually increase timeAlso, if you notice your mind wandering, don't beat yourself up about it. See every return as a rep which strengthens your mind.Once you get better at controlling your wandering mind you can begin contemplating, which can be as easy as sitting and really thinking though a philosophical problem deeply (say, how participation works, the paradoxes of The One, etc).I think Plotinus at some point basically recommends his students to quiet the mind and withdraw from the senses as much as possible. Do that. Besides the fact that you can get some spiritual insights faster than you might expect, it's just generally beneficial in everyday life and for study.
>>41376321read the "Life of Plotinus" by Porphyry and the "Life of Proclus" by Marinus and emulate what you see in their characters.
>>41378560to add to this the "Life of Isidore" by Damascius, specifically the biography of Isidore because the others in "Philosophical History" generally fall short of following philosophy perfectly.
>>41376321 Start with the classics.https://archive.org/details/theurgiaoregypt00wildgoog/page/n12/mode/1up
>>41376754>>41378555Another piece of advice is to really try to internalize and actually EXPERIENCE the philosophical aspects. Do your best to actually see that the Beauty of a specific beautiful thing is the SAME Beauty as in all other beautiful things. Or that without the Forms as trancendent ordering principles all perception would just be a formless shitshow of chaos. This isn't to be regarded as mearly theoretical. This is the beginning of Anagoge.
>>41376754>>41378555Strictly speaking, the Neoplatonists practiced what they called "contemplation" (Theōria). Since it is fundamentally different from most modern types of meditation in its goals and philosophical context, it is better to avoid the term "meditation", as it can be misleading. The best primary source to learn about the core of this practice is Plotinus's Enneads.https://archive.org/details/plotinus-the-enneads/page/n3/mode/1up
>>41378813>Strictly speaking, the Neoplatonists practiced what they called "contemplation" (Theōria)>it is better to avoid the term "meditation", as it can be misleadingIn a sense true, but you learning to quiet and focus the mind is still vital. Basic mindfullness won't hurt. There is a specific Plotinus quote I'm looking for where more or less describes this, but I sadly can't find it right now.
>>41378813>>41378876θεωρία means being an active spectator a beholder of the Ideal Forms, and it is nothing other than the steady activity of νόησις in which the "lower soul" here participates when she is joined to the "higher soul" in νοῦς.It may have something to do with quieting the discursive and opining activities of the soul, but Porphyry tells us (Life of Plotinus 8.7-24) the philosopher was able to be there and here simultaneously while walking around, attending to tasks, and enjoying conversation. You might also like to consider the example Socrates himself gave. > Among voluntary tasks and exercises for strengthening his body for any chance demands upon its endurance, we are told that Socrates habitually practiced this one: he would stand (stare solitus), so the story goes, in on fixed position (pertinaci statu), all day and all night, from early dawn until the next sunrise, openeyed (inconivens), motionless (immobilis), in his very tracks with face and eyes riveted to the same spot in deep meditation, as if his mind and soul had been, as it were, withdrawn from his body (tamquam quodem secessu mentis atque animi facto a corpore). When Favorinus in his discussion of the man's fortune and his many other virtues had reached this point, he said: "He often stood from sun to sun, more rigid than the tree trunk" (pollakis ex heliou eis helion heistekei astrabesteros ton premnon). — Aulus Gellius, Noctes Atticae 2.1.1-3; trans. Loeb Classical Library
>>41376321how is neoplatonism any different than the fictional universes fat neckbeards write for shits and gigs?
>>41379104I suppose it's the same as the difference between an exercise of imagination and an the dialectical exercise of discursive reason. Theoretical philosophy or metaphysics aims at real beings το ὄντος ὤν and not scifi-fiction.
>>41379072 Interesting. Thus, the philosopher becomes ontologically akin to the contemplated Ideal Forms. Consequently, he is only formally human; in essence, he is a demi-god living between two worlds.
>>41379104By the fact of its truth.
>>41379432Yes!!! Unlike how it is to behold things outside ourselves, seeing sense objects for instance with our eyes, in the intellectual vision there is no bodily gap or space between what "sees" and what is "seen". In fact, it is the soul looking at herself, or rather at the cause which produced her through herself, in which she remains as a continuum without gaps. As it is demonstrated in the Phaedo, the individual soul and the Forms of beings share many resemblances. As for calling one who achieves such a degree of theoretical virtue, Porphyry calls this one a god, one who has achieved the assimilation to the God ὁμοίωσις θεῷ in the intelligible world (Sententiae, 34).
Start by reading the relevant texts, beginning with Plato. Then look into theurgy, remnants of ancient rites we still have (like PGM), and the Three Hermetic Arts. Internal alchemy in particular is a major support. although Western alchemy is a lot more obscure than other traditions. If you like the alchemical path, this book will be a valuable resource.
>>41376426This is good>>41381693This is good too.I’d also recommend John Scotus Erigena.Ignore posts about Hinduism and meditation, just focus on neo-platonism.
What almost no one has cared to mention so far is that sans theurgy and the sacred rites, (Platonic) philosophy is a lived tradition a way of life and a preparation for death. I'd say the most necessary practice one takes in philosophy is not ritual or even contemplation but the exercise of the soul's natural activities to give her parts their special goods, i.e. the practical virtues of justice, prudence, courage, and temperance and avoid the opposites of these.
>>41379104You're gonna have to actually read some philosophy, do some thinking, and not just go on your own gay opinions to figure that one out
>>41382246>he practical virtues of justice, prudence, courage, and temperance and avoid the opposites of theseThis is very important and should be empahized. Not always the best at sticking to this myself but I notice a drastic difference when I do.
>>41382487Grimes seemed like a very endearing and genuine person when i watched a few interviews where he discusses his Noetic Society. is that one of his books you'd recommend as a relative beginner to that school of philosophy?>>41382246while your referring to the soul as 'her' seems to betray some bizarre conclusions or biases you've adopted, internalizing and then externalizing the idea of the 'good' is ideal for every person alive. if every individual contemplated and integrated this, i believe the world would be inclined to actively be striving towards perfection in so much as it is reasonably attainable.you don't need to be a philosopher, esotericist, or even an intellectual to understand that goodness, justice, virtue etc are the most immutable and invaluable traits you can embody in oneself.
>>41381693From where comes the notion the spirit is inferior to the soul? Such is the case in alchemy, as stated in the book you posted. In platonism you have the pneuma as superior to psyche, but then you have spirits as refering to essences in a liquid solution, as in alchemy.
>>41382928The point of the picture didn't have to do with Grimes, though I agree he's fantastic and lot of his lectures are availible on YT (recommended). But Proclus's Elements of Theology is probably the most systematic overview of Neoplatonism and is highly advisable to read. If you can get a hold of the version with Grimes's introduction it's probably worth getting but it's not necessary.Also, Aarvoll did a 5 hour video going though every proposition, which is a helpful guide.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuY4nI3uGWU
Thought provoking. Good thread.
>>41382928>if every individual contemplated and integrated this, i believe the world would be inclined to actively be striving towards perfection in so much as it is reasonably attainable.I agree and you have said it yourself that one does not need to contemplate virtue to be a theoretical philosopher to live virtuously. All one needs in order to have εὐδαιμονία to have is right-opinion about where the soul stands in relation to the body and the passions, or perhaps even less than this the ethical habituation for noble living. If you're curious about why I refer to hypostasis ψυχή with feminine pronouns it's because this personality stands with respect to νοῦς as his analogical receptacle. νοῦς is by contrast analogically masculine engendered as an active and regulating principle -- as lakes are to rivers, and as Selene is to Helios.
>>41383839It is a kind of poetic license because the same analogy holds between Soul and 'her' Body. But in this case 'she' takes an active role, as the source of the Body's life, and the Body moves because of 'her'. So, the Egyptians were not wrong to engender the Moon as a masculine God, for them the moon j’h is also the gods Thoth and Kohns, who stands in relation to the Earth as that which illuminates her at night when the Sun is not visible.
Enneads (especially IV and V) -> Lucid Dreaming -> OBEsIn that order. Ignore all hermeticism larp
1. have 130+ iq2. be autistic (the good kind, not the japanese cartoon kind)3. pick up athenaze 4. ascend
>>41376321This looks more like a neatly organized and stylized user-interface a god level being would use to manipulate the local universe they're dominating(via god level technology currently unexplainable but eventually comprehensible), instead of any actual truth about how primordial reality is fundamentally organized.
>>41383293Everything depends on how the terms are defined. Colloquially both of these terms are used so generally as to be useless. It's important to see what the term means very precisely in a given text. Historically speaking a lot of the newer ambiguities come from Christianity and medieval and renaissance occultism. "Immortal soul" in Christianity means something very different from what it means in Platonism (where the Christian equivalent for soul would actually be "vehicle of the soul"/astral body). Medieval occultism also generally used spirit to refer to a kind of life force power.
