I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. How can humans be special and made in God's image but other apes aren't?Doesn't this mean if you go back far enough I have an ancestor who wasn't human/made in the image of God who gave birth to a human made in God's image?
>>41385863this makes sense if you recognize god in all things as the atman which is brahman
>>41385863evolution is a surprisingly elegant, robust and efficient solution to the problem of complex optimization.asserting that god doesn't use it, is equivalent with calling him/her dumb.is that the intention of your post?
>>41385863previous threads related to this topic https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40952000/#q40952000 https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/18059907/#q18062454>>41385894I agree God and or Christianity is compatible with evolution if you recognize animals are also made in his image
>>41385863 Evolution is obviously fake and gay.
>>41385898No I think that believing modern humans are extremely special and uniquely made in his image is false >>41385917I've heard no better alternative
>>41385917https://rednuht.org/genetic_cars_2/
>>41385917
>>41385925>>41385925>modern humans are extremely specialbut modern humans are extremely special. to paraphrase the prophet 'robert sapolsky': even though all our cognitive traits can be found throughout the animal kingdom, we are better at all of them than any fucking creature... by factor 10.>made in his image is falseyeah, you are not taking time as dimension into account (also the changed perspective of an omniscient being): God Made Man in his image using evolution. <- here, I fixed your 'contradiction'.
>>41385863
>>41385863>he thinks humans were made in the image of God rather than in the image of the archons/aliens1 Corinthians 15:47-49, "The first man was from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. As one of dust, so are those who are of the dust, and as one of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the one of dust, we will also bear the image of the one of heaven." Different men, different images, one of which humans do not in general bear.
>>41385966That doesn't solve the contradiction https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sqFbQgVrg7sI'd encourage you to skim these threads >>41385910by extremely special and made in his image I meant some of our ancestors weren't human/special/made in his image and some were You never named a exact point in human evolution which divides humans from non humans.If you believe being human is a spectrum and not binary that's fine but primates are clearly somewhat human and so are mammals so if you believe rights should be granted on the basis of being human you'd have to grant them some rights to be consistent.I can't name a exact point in which a puddle becomes a lake, a point which divides puddles from lakes. If I believed it was only moral to drain puddles but not lakes that's a serious problem if I can't define the difference.
>>41386017Which men are which? What about similarities between humans, proto human fossils and primates?It seems all animals share a common ancestor
>>41385863All matter is fundamentally made of energy. Thus it's all "in the image of god" but actually literally made of god.>oh what are demons thenA lack thereof. Notice how their depiction is so often just a darkness, coldness, lack of energy. Lack of god.What you should be more considerate of isn't where humans came from but instead where the universe came from.
>>41386049Panpsychism?
>>41385863It's not a physical image, since God has no physical body. It's a mental image. Humanity in its ideal form mirrors the divine nature.
>>41386079What does that mean? Having the ability to reason, understand morality, etc seems like a spectrum not binary some animals can do very simple counting If you go back far enough some of our ancestors weren't able to reason or understand morality and then over time became more and more able to reason, understand morality, etc
>>41386037I think maybe the idea is that nobody starts out in the image of God, but one can receive the image of God gradually as part of being adpoted by God, though only after the death of the material body, in resurrection, is the the completed spiritual body made in the image of God received. 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit." Beings attaining the image of God is one of the purposes of the world, not something that has already happened for the most part.
>>41386090The divine nature is simple, not complex. It's not about abilities.
>>41386128that's just an empty platitude>>41386100What about proto humans who existed before Abraham? How did the world serve it's purpose of allowing them to attain the image of God?
reincarnation, all life is conscious, all life is sacred, nature runs her course but do as they must, our miss management of this beautiful planet we've been blessed with is nothing more than a reflection of how far humanity has mistakenly taken life and its beauty for granted, in a time where truly there is no good reason for their to be those who are starving or homeless, but that damned money became the god of the world and has and will do much harm, the dragons have hoarded the gold for far too long, and no longer shall they continue to poison the world and humanity, all in due time :3
>>41386266>What about proto humansThere's one world soul from which all souls derive and to which they return until the day comes when all creation is imbued with the spirit of God and absorbed into the pleroma. No one and nothing will be left behind. But if it seems like we've taken a needlessly circuitous route to the desired outcome, blame Sophia for trying to comprehend the Monad. This is all her fault really.
Don't you ever wonder about how the "originator(s)" came to be? Made in the image and likeness of them are we? Perhaps it isn't too much of a stretch to wonder if they have been reincarnating and evolving alongside the rest of their beautiful creations this whole time?
>>41385863There is a much simpler way to get there. The problem is that you get there so fast that once you reach the bottom you have no idea how to get back to the top.
>>41385966This is a nice syncretic cope but the Bible doesn’t say that buddy, it says he made Adam on the spot no monkey fucking to get there. God is not a monkey fucker.
>>41386342>>41385966evolution requires death to have been part of Creation before sin
>>41385863To me, its more metaphoric. To be made in the image of god is to be like him in a smaller form. We are able to create and have a conscious mind unlike the animals we share the world with. We are also immortal spirits contained in a fleshy vessel. When the "21 grams" experiments were done on dying TB patients, every single subject lost a small amount of weight. When the test was done on a dog, there was no weight loss recorded. It could still be taken literally if you can find someone who can tell you what God and a human soul looks like.
>>41386266>that's just an empty platitudeYou couldn't be more wrong.
>>41386359>To me, its more metaphoric. To be made in the image of god is to be like him in a smaller form. we are able to create and have a conscious mind unlike the animals we share the world with. Proto humans can create and non human animals can create. Proto humans were conscious and non human animals around today are conscious just look at the Cambridge declaration of consciousness. >We are also immortal spirits contained in a fleshy vessel. When the "21 grams" experiments were done on dying TB patients, every single subject lost a small amount of weight.this isn't actually true. >Only a subset (about half) showed any apparent loss, and MacDougall himself noted the variability, blaming technical issues or the soul's "hesitation" to depart. Modern critiques attribute any changes to factors like evaporation of moisture from the lungs or scale inaccuracies.>When the test was done on a dog, there was no weight loss recorded. this is pseudoscience.Do proto human souls weigh 10.5 grams?
>>41386431>Proto humans can create and non human animals can create. Proto humans were conscious and non human animals around today are conscious just look at the Cambridge declaration of consciousness. Let me rephrase: Humans have higher consciousness. Pigs and dogs are smart, but I don't see them creating rockets to the moon or mag-lev trains.>Do proto human souls weigh 10.5 grams?21 grams experiment is just what people like to call it. I didn't mean they all lost 21 grams. Believe in it or not, there are plenty of other ways on this board to prove to yourself that we are spirits in a fleshy vessel.
>>41385863Not a creationist but every turn of the staircase and even each step in OP picrel is completely unproven and requires dogmatic faith in neodarwinianism to accept. Watch the "evolution" of a zygote into a fetus into a child into an adult. Is the progression of speciation from genetic mutation an accident? Or is every aspect of life itself the embodiment of an intelligent force that permiates the material world?
>>41386478>Let me rephrase: Humans have higher consciousness. Pigs and dogs are smart, but I don't see them creating rockets to the moon or mag-lev trains.Beavers create dams. Some other animals use tools. Proto humans drew drawings on caves. Modern humans aren't super special. Modern humans do not have superpowers our ancient ancestors all completely lacked. >Believe in it or not, there are plenty of other ways on this board to prove to yourself that we are spirits in a fleshy vessel.Maybe but that doesn't prove only modern humans have spirits and pigs and proto humans don't have spirits.
>>41385863I can't believe in neither creationism nor in evolutionEvolution falls too nicely into the Luciferian and Freemasonic false belief of linearity and climbing through the pyramid's levels, it posits a linear reality with an end goal, through the false enlightenment of accumulation of knowledge, evolution is, at is core, accumulationCreationism has its own problems too, it posits a purpose for that creation, with the master potter determining its creation's purpose, with good and bad, and beautiful and ugly pottery, that which also reveals an elitist lie, in Evolution, the weak have no hope in the survival of the fittest, and in Creationism, the creation is beholden to the Creator's intent, if you are a bad creation you are fuckedBoth have their problems and reveal very human viewpoints, very human insecurities and anxieties, born out of clinging and attachments
> bump of hope
>>41386577Intelligent design is really the best and most logically sound idea. We are a material extension of the universe and as such we embody a form of intelligence. The ability to understand and categorize natural phenomena that exist outside our pshyche is the best argument for human intelligence. It also argues that the universe and material world is itself intelligible.
>>41385863>image of Godit means that we have free will, as He hasthats all, not how we look or anything
>>41386798Any evidence of this idea?
>>41385863we are made IN God's image
>>41386510>Beavers create dams. Some other animals use tools. Proto humans drew drawings on caves.>Modern humans aren't super special. Modern humans do not have superpowers our ancient ancestors all completely lacked.Its been said that civilization truly began once we looked after the dead. We ceased to be beings that lived merely for survival but also for lofty things like an after life. That means we have had to at least grow technologically to even think of the concept of God. I'm not a Jew but their word for "god" is supposedly the same word for "mind".If an animal came from god, it may as well mean nothing to it because it wont help it get laid or eat. The writers of the bible loved their metaphors and double speak. I'm sure its no coincidence that god is portrayed as an all seeing eye. TL;DR you need a higher mind to even see such an "image" of god
>>41385863>he things the body is the image of Godhow dumb atheists can be?
>>41386705>Intelligent design is really the best and most logically sound idea. We are a material extension of the universe and as such we embody a form of intelligence. The ability to understand and categorize natural phenomena that exist outside our pshyche is the best argument for human intelligence. It also argues that the universe and material world is itself intelligible.Some modern humans like babies and severely mentally handicapped adults lack the ability to understand and categorize natural phenomena that exist outside their pshyche and some animals that exist today are just as good as or better then those humans at this ability. Proto humans seemed to have some ability to categorize natural phenomena that existed outside their pshyche.
>>41386798I'm agnostic anyone has free will. Do human babies have free will?Do severely mentally handicapped human adults have free will?Do pigs have free will?Do proto humans have free will?How could two proto humans who have zero free will give birth to a child who had some amount of free will?
>>41385863>>41385863>Homo Erectus>constructed the wheelidc about anything else said on the thread I just want to say that image is completely wrong and retarded and OP should kill himself for posting it
I have memories of being underwater and I know nobody will ever believe me and say I'm bullshitting. I fucking remember.
>>41388538Strawman>>41388022>Elephants: African elephants are among the most studied for their mourning behaviors. They often touch and cover the bones of deceased family members with dirt or vegetation, revisit sites of death for years, and even appear to "cry" by releasing tears during these rituals. This communal care strengthens social bonds within herds.>Chimpanzees: These primates have been observed grooming the corpses of dead group members, carrying deceased infants for days, and showing signs of distress like lethargy or reduced appetite. In one case, a mother chimp carried her dead baby for over a week before letting go.>Its been said that civilization truly began once we looked after the dead.I'd say it was agriculture. >We ceased to be beings that lived merely for survival but also for lofty things like an after life. That means we have had to at least grow technologically to even think of the concept of God. I'm not a Jew but their word for "god" is supposedly the same word for "mind".The problem for Judaism and Christianity is the concept of God and an afterlife predates Judaism entirely. Key Evidence: Skhul and Qafzeh Caves (circa 100,000–120,000 Years Ago)Location: Near present-day Haifa, Israel (Mount Carmel region).Context: These Middle Paleolithic sites contain the remains of at least 10 early Homo sapiens individuals (along with some Neanderthal burials nearby). The bodies were deliberately placed in shallow pits, often in a flexed position, and covered with earth—marking the oldest unambiguous evidence of intentional burial by our species.Indicators of Afterlife Belief:Use of red ochre (a symbolic pigment, possibly representing blood, life force, or transformation) sprinkled on the bodies.Inclusion of marine shells (e.g., dentalium shells from the Mediterranean, up to 20 km away) as grave goods, worn as beads or placed near the head, suggesting offerings or adornments for the deceased's journey.
>>41388646No signs of scavenging or natural deposition; the careful arrangement implies ritualistic intent.Interpretation: Archaeologists like Paul Pettitt and others argue this reflects an emerging cognitive awareness of mortality and a desire to maintain connections with the dead, evolving into formalized afterlife concepts. It's part of a broader pattern in the Levant where symbolic behavior (e.g., ochre use) hints at proto-religious thought, though direct proof of "afterlife" ideology remains inferential.On Beliefs in Gods or DeitiesThe earliest evidence for supernatural beings (e.g., animism, spirits, or proto-deities) appears later, in the Upper Paleolithic (~40,000–50,000 years ago), with symbolic art:Lion-Man Figurine (Hohlenstein-Stadel Cave, Germany; ~40,000 years ago): An ivory carving of a human-lion hybrid, interpreted as a shamanistic spirit, totem, or early deity representing transformation or the divine.Venus Figurines (e.g., Hohle Fels, Germany; ~35,000–40,000 years ago): Exaggerated female forms possibly symbolizing fertility goddesses or ancestral spirits.
>>41388022>If an animal came from god, it may as well mean nothing to it because it wont help it get laid or eat.That's a problem for theists (especially jews Christians and Muslims) not me. Maybe God should provide for non human animals and proto humans so they have happy meaningful lives. Maybe he shouldn't create them if they're guaranteed to suffer and live meaningless lives. >The writers of the bible loved their metaphors and double speak. I'm sure its no coincidence that god is portrayed as an all seeing eye.TL;DR you need a higher mind to even see such an "image" of godIf that's the definition of higher mind then humans have had it for tens of thousands of years. Long before Judaism.
>>41385863Made in the image of God is amalgam of the spirit.That is to the effect of the seven sins and the opposite.All is wisdom. All is spirit.
>>41389963that's just empty platitudes
>>41388646Elephants also bury their deadHumans are not specialThe only thing that makes humans unique is writing and technologyAnimals do everything humans do, except for writing and technology
>>41391290What do you not understand about it?Take the emotion out of this if you will pleaseI'm not trying to have a pride battleI think this is something that takes some digging to think aboutIf people mostly go about in distraction even a little they won't have time for itIt's not for most peopleSaved for the saved from sin to questionvery seriously
>>41391386but if you go far enough back some of my ancestors couldn't write or use technology and my more recent ancestors could. At one point did two "non humans" who couldn't write or use technology give birth to a human who could write and use technology?
>>41391484I see basically no difference between what you said and jrsfincdtincdubd
>>41389963>Made in the image of God is amalgam of the spirit.Do only humans have this spirit? Do non human animals that exist today have it?If I go far enough back did two of my ancestors who didn't have this spirit give birth to a human who had this spirit?
Bump
Give 1 example where another kind was made from evolution.ex. birds > frogchicken > crocape > humanSpecies yes. Another kind? no.
>>41385863I think part of the problem is that a lot of people did used to have more nuanced belives about animals and thier souls , as well as them also beliving humans did have a unique divine spark , but I think we are all to modern rerards to get it.On another topic what do you think of npcs.You talked about how two unsparked people could make a non sparked soul , but people today think of thier parents as that.
>>41391386>Elephants also bury their deadWeren't elephants also considered devine? Like maybe one could argue , that its human and elephants who are kino.
People a lot of the time blame science for a wierd illness of the mind , that we have around this type of stuff.But aren't a lot of this soul conversations for example , closer to the idea of mathematical proof than scientific proof.
>>41385863>Doesn't this mean if you go back far enough I have an ancestor who wasn't human/made in the image of God who gave birth to a human made in God's image?yeah but no.the "angels" or "elohim" (mighty ones) or for your understanding in modern times, aliens, hybridized an apen like creature (naturally evolved on earth) with their own genome, creating humanity.we are bastards, really.. holy bastards.
>>41393249Okay hold on it's page 8I'll try to flesh out an answerBasically I'll hope the spirit of truth helps me but it isn't very complicated and all the wait will be for hardly anythingAlbeit time is relaxing to think>>41393273Yeah animals have a variant of right andwrong decision makingBasically life is fleshed out of two core principlesThat is love and self love(pride).Pride is the chief sin to which the others relateHowever they relate at the most fundamental scale that pride can be isolated upon partsIsn't it interesting to make contact with a bee?With the animals governing sentience at the metric standardHowever all animals are governed by underlying go forces pertained to life Life is governed by the metric life and deathLike 0 and 1, logic gates and a high point to elicit orderIf there is anything more to say I'll think a bitAlso keep asking me questions and I'll keep trying to helpTrying meaning I will do my best to think
>>41385863>but other apes aren't?All life is made in the image of God.Did you REALLY think God only looks human?
>>41393249All is spiritSpirit is core informationThat is your hands, nose, ears, mouth etcAll amalgam of flesh sense the world in the spiritI think therefore I amThat information is deduced in the brain to give some context of the worldAnd the brain is deduced in the spirit That is just raw information in the mind of infinity(God).All of this is in the mind of GodHowever we are real in the infinite GodAs real as real gets. We are tiny parts and we will never be the whole processPsalm 82:6So it is in the mind of God to createHowever he is here too alongside usAnd above us.Right in the middle of good and bad is The ladder to heaven. That is whereGod's throne is. He is the most High.That spot is infinity.He is the Lord of WisdomWisdom is a lesson between right and wrong.So God animates information for us to learn.We go about in freewill to decide betweenthe amalgam of our flesh and spirit whichpertains to the seven sins and the opposite.That is our understanding and even we converse with the Lord in this manner.We are like him having complete jurisdiction over the earth and to have a go at all creation in understandingWe are steward.There is work to do to bring in peace.Then nature spins the dial and freewillTo decide when and where the pieces might not be placed back into their boxes.
>>41393273With your ancestorsThey all had this spiritIt may have been cloudy and just at the seedsBut it may also have been complete and we fell from itIt's hard to tellHowever surely as they walk they are the human spirit>>41394771A centerYeah perhaps you can look at it like thatAlbeit the center rises infinitely.A circle is just a polar opposite anywayMarriage is made with good and evil as per the observer and the deviations curve in understandingGradual as time begets understanding
Wisdom is the patriarch spirit.You could surmount extreme wisdom;You grab a fiddle and play itYou already know what song you're going to playAnd play it, it's boring.So we have intelligence and knowledge.It's fun.We are effectively golems until animated by the spirit.Which is wisdom and our deduction is that pertained to wisdom, intelligence, and knowledge.Wisdom has to do with faith which is thefather of intelligence.A moral endeavor is ability to accept truth.Where a spirit accepts truth it grows.Even faith as we are inanimate until otherwise animated.Freewill sits at the base notion of faith.We make a moral choice between good and evil and learn.
>>41385863The visible image of the invisible God is the Word, which is prior to creation and divisibility at its source but not separate from what it emanates. Being prior to the source it is neither this nor that. Before thought, during thought, and after thought you remain unchanged. Anything said about what you are is the mind and created. The body and senses come after you know the mind and are created. The world seen is created by the forms and names of the mind and even then what appears is always blinking in and out at its source. Time and space are presented to you from the mind. Waking, dreaming and sleeping are not you either. It all comes after your being which is the image of God.
>>41394756This makes sense, all life or at least all conscious life
>>41385863it could also be both, natural evolutionary pressure shaped by fate that leads to bipedal and hairless aethetic apes, maybe even convergent across multiple solar systems, we just don't know
>>41394763So idealism? We're made in the image of God because we all exist in God's mind like a dream?
>Barkon>>41394763>God is the dynamic universal center.
>>41394173I'm agnostic on free will but I find it hard to believe most people have lots of libertarian free will because of the extremely strong link between genetics and obesity and their being so few vegans, abortion abolishinists and effective altruists
>>41394176seems incredibly unlikely it'd be those two specifically
>>41394912So theological idealism?
>>41385863Other apes lack access to the correct internal feedback mechanism.Homo sapien can touch the rim if it stands on it's intellectual tippy toes.Comprehension of the concept of God is a threshold of experience.
>>41395596So two apes who lacked access to the correct internal feedback mechanism and couldn't touch the rim gave birth to a being who possessed the correct internal feedback mechanism and could touch the rim?
>>41395509Just truth I dont know all the things you look up
God set division to the voidEffectively life is a lessonAn unraveling of wisdomWe follow the Lord who dividedIt isn't empty like a dreamOr rather a dream is still a lessonGod is beyond that; truly infiniteTime is an understanding of the division
I believe there has to be a creator for all this shit all universes and everything. That aside, seriously, ask yourself, what kind turned to another kind? Do we have proof of ONE example? By 'kind' I mean dogkind turning into bearkind or apekind turning into mankind. We have proof of evolution in different SPECIES, but not different KINDS.
>>41395771we don't need one
>>41385863Humans are created but not by god and not by magic.Every hint to our creation is in the flaw of our spine. No animal would ever grow on a planet like this without a way to account for its gravity.The flaw in our spine and form is a result of aquatic oversight. A species with no need to consider the long term effects of a planet’s gravity on the spine made us entirely for industry and possibly aesthetic. As an “ape” species (we are actually chimera), no one could evolve in this way without being seen as a threat to a community and would be jumped/killed by others who are looking for brownie points for taking out the one person going around as a walking middle finger.No tail makes more room, no hunching allows for us to be bunched easier. Our wonky spine forces us to rock and sway for balance and keeps us nomadic and moving because it’s easier than staying still.
>>41395771Yes, whales are a good example, supposedly they first evolved into a dog-like land animal then went back into the ocean due to high pressures on land, eventually becoming whales. If you want an example right now look at salmon. Atlantic and Pacific salmon evolved separately long enough that they have different numbers of chromosomes and can no longer breed. But this took 10 million years to happen, only after the continents shifted enough to separate the Atlantic and pacific oceans. That should illustrate the time scales required to observe this happening and why we don’t see it often in labs or on human timescales.
>>41395771I was actually able to find a modern example of a land mammal slowly returning to the sea. Look up the North Ronaldsay sheep.This is an isolated population of sheep that live on shorelines and eat almost exclusively seaweed. Their digestive system has adapted to ingest copper in a totally different way and it can actually be dangerous for them to eat normal grass as a result. In time these sheep would probably become more and more specialized to eat seaweed and eventually become semi-aquatic as a result. The reason there are so few animals like this today is because life has already been around long enough to fill most niches. In early evolutionary history there weren’t animals like whales so that “niche” could still become occupied. Today few niches are exposed and so animals aren’t being pushed into them by competitive pressure as strongly. Which gives us more stable animals that do a specific thing instead of a bunch of weird in between animals like in ancient times.
>>41396654Using the scientific method. We need to be able to observe it.
>>41385863>I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelmingExplain how highly complex organs can develop out of "random mutation" then. Try randomly mutating the code of the operating system on your PC and see if it develops new abilities instead of just crashing.
>>41386266>What about proto humans who existed before Abrahamwhat makes you believe that they in fact existed? bones that jesuits "found" you know there have been plenty of "missing links" proven to be forgeries right? there is no undeniable proof that we came from anything more primitive then ourselves only theories, a scientist producing some bones isnt proof
>>41396945>Try randomly mutating the code of the operating system on your PC and see if it develops new abilities instead of just crashing.There is a thing in machine learning called evolutionary algorithms that are supposed to mimic evolution, and supposedly they work decently well, although I don't know much about it personally beyond that it's a thing.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_algorithm>Evolutionary algorithms (EA) reproduce essential elements of biological evolution in a computer algorithm in order to solve "difficult" problems, at least approximately, for which no exact or satisfactory solution methods are known.>Evolutionary algorithms often perform well approximating solutions to all types of problems because they ideally do not make any assumption about the underlying fitness landscape.
>>41396888There’s a study being ran right now on e-coil bacteria, they’re around 80k generations in. But the results aren’t interesting so I didn’t want to mention it.It took the salmon tens of millions of years just to stop being able to interbreed. So it will probably be centuries before this experiment shows the bacteria turn into a different type of bacteria. The experiment will continue to run. If you’re familiar with the tar drop experiments, those have been run for nearly 200 years now. So in a few hundred years we’ll be able to see in the lab a direct step-by-step evolution from one type of life to another. The problem is the timescales are massive and microbiology has only been around for a couple hundred years as a field. Not a lot of time for science to observe it.If you accept plant evolution there’s plenty of examples there. Just look at what we’ve done with modern versions of plants like corn and bananas, or broccoli and similar veggies which we created from some totally weird origin plant. Obviously this is human guided evolution but it shows that the principle is there biologically.
bump
>>41396945Tiny changes over time. Something like a kidney might have started out as a mutation in a blood vessel that created a filtering effect. It was beneficial so the creatures with the mutation had more kids. Eventually they outcompete the rest and now the entire species has a primitive kidney that can evolve further with more mutations and generations.
>>41385894hindpoo satana dharma
>>41397693be nice anon
Evolution debate just went live https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQLuAiFHWc
Shouldn't all Christians reject scriptural inerrancy since evolution is incompatible with Genesis
>>41386338https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcOHiGonWwUOne way to figure out how to get back up is to not be so pretentious about how the cosmos works based on other people's teachings you stole. Something about lies and theft and ill spirit bounds one once they get that deep.. Something Egyptians said never to do in the abyss.. The tower of babel was in the abyss btw.
Isn't there a weird chromosome in humans that isn't present in any other primate that some people think is evidence of ancient genetic engineering?
We are made inside of the image, of The Creator
>>41388587>I'm agnostic anyone has free will.Do human babies have free will?no, they still dont have thar part of the soulDo severely mentally handicapped human adults have free will?yesDo pigs have free will?no, animals will never haveDo proto humans have free will?there is nothing as protohumans
>>41399000>no, they still dont have thar part of the soulHow and when do they get that? How do you know once they've gotten it?>yesEven if they're less intelligent then a pig?>no, animals will never haveWhy not? >>41397117 can't they evolve this capability? If you remove parts of an adult humans brain they can no longer reason so if we add this part of a brain to a pig won't they gain the ability to reason and have free will?>there is nothing as protohumansYou don't believe in evolution? You believe modern humans don't have a ancestor who wasn't a modern human?
>>41398890no, there's just a chromosome that is a fusion of 2 other chromosomes. all of our chromosomes show clear relationship with other apes
>>41385894>this makes sense if you recognize god in all things as the poopoo which is the peepee
>>41400625cool, got more info?
>>41401230Based
>>41385863>I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming.There is evidence for species mutating to a degree yes, like in humans, some genes recess and others activate under certain environmental conditions. But turning to a new species to the point where current organism is unable to reproduce with its predeccesor species and so on until we come around one day? Seems like a huge stretch. The fact that we obviously can't test this hypothesis in real time (it would take millions of years) just seems like a convenient excuse to not question it
>>41385863>human beings are dumb niggers>they are made in the image of God >therefore God is a dumb nigger boom
>>41402270Our minds are good our bodies are not
>>41402245There are animals that recently became separated, like salmon, who can no longer breed with each other despite being the same animal. And there are experiments being run to observe it, like with e-coil.Microbiology is barely 100 years old. It’s not convenient that this stuff takes so long it’s massively inconvenient. Your great grandkids will probably have direct evidence of evolution in a lab.If you’re someone who believes in evolution based on the principles it’s very frustrating that there’s no direct evidence in the lab, I wish I could see 200 years into the future and pull the results of this work back to today. But it’s just too early right now. It sucks having to put your bets on a position that is strong but ultimately unproven.
>>41385863We have never found any life on Earth that isn't related to all other life on Earth. This suggests that life doesn't just spontaneously arise wherever the conditions are right - there ought to be all sorts of competing lineages if that was the case. How could the first proto-unicells spread over and terraform the entire world into an unsuitable environment for new life to form, before any rivals appeared? There is no evidence of life ever being completely extinguished, despite a myriad of unimaginable cataclysms since the dawn of life. This, to me, suggests that the creation of life was such a potent and unlikely event that it had to be an intentional act by an unbelievably powerful and far-seeing being of some kind. I would further argue that that creator is keeping an eye on the creation, for whatever unknown aim there was behind such a thing.
>>41403737That's possible maybe something like this https://benthams.substack.com/p/the-archon-abandonment-theodicy?utm_source=publication-search
>>41385863wow OP it's almost like humans are NOT specially made in a god's image or something
>>41404201Yes that's my best guess either no one is made in God's image or every conscious being is made in God's image
>>41404214maybe God is SO complex that virtually every conscious being would have SOME of Him in them and thus be partially "made in His image"
>>41403737We found unrelated life recently, look up obelisks. They are RNA-organisms that don’t connect to any known branch of life.
>>41404255I think God is simple but I agree https://benthams.substack.com/p/god-may-be-maximally-simple?utm_source=publication-search
>>41404273maybe idkTheir genomes and structures don't share ancestry with anything else documented, making them a novel discovery that expands our understanding of RNA-based entities. However, calling them "organisms" or fully independent "life" stretches the definition—they're more akin to RNA plasmids or virus-like particles that parasitize existing bacterial cells, not self-sustaining entities capable of metabolism or evolution on their own. They don't represent a separate origin of life but rather a parasitic or symbiotic element within the existing biosphere, similar to how viruses or viroids operate.This doesn't directly refute the original point about cellular life's singular ancestry, as obelisks aren't cellular and depend on that shared tree for hosts. They might hint at ancient RNA-world relics or undiscovered diversity in genetic elements, but they don't evidence multiple spontaneous arisings of life itself. If anything, their novelty underscores how much we still don't know about microbial worlds, but it aligns more with evolutionary tinkering than a separate creation event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q37eP3zOPtkEvolution is bullshit and meant to make humans doubt their divine origins
>humans discover fire 400,000 years ago>nothing happens for 396,000 years>4,000 years ago human history randomly begins 396,000 years is such an insanely long time for nothing to happen. The chances that it took humans 396,000 years to go from making fire to writing things down are essentially 0%, and modern historians are starting notice all of these unexplainable "theories". The previous generation pushed a whole lot of "theories" as if they were hard facts, and as they die off, I expect their theories will too.
>>41403737the alignment of Orion's belt with this monument was 75,000 years agohttps://www.atlasobscura.com/places/adams-calendar
>>41404419Making fire, hunting, cooking, take massive amounts of brain power. Those mutations could have increased from cooked food releasing more and more varied nutrients, fueling mutations in the brain. 400,000 years is a very short time span comparatively. Pattern recognition takes time.It's like the match game, but with millions of pieces around the entire world.
>>41404396>comments turned offOf course, can’t have anyone correcting his retardation now can we?
>>41404371I agree with you. I mean they have RNA, not some novel system. Interesting example though!
>>41404419There were definitely civilizations of at least Bronze Age technological level before or during the last ice age. They were destroyed when the ice age ended and the lowlands flooded all over the world. But this stuff is all deep underwater and no one is interested in funding these missions when it’s hard to find and it might only disprove some important guys theory. We’re stuck there in cosmology too. Dark energy is gonna stick around for another 30 years until everyone who shilled it is dead.
>>41404419Technological advancement is exponential, not linear. Think about every single thing you use every single day, and realize someone’s LIFE was dedicated to making that thing. We take for granted that when it drops below 30 degrees we don’t have to say “well little Timmy’s fucked,” we just say “roads will be a bit slick tomorrow.” Women used to just die in pregnancy fucks sake, the fact you know who your mother is should be a blessing. Human knowledge is a truly wonderful thing.
>>41404690I wish maternal mortality was higher then less men would be divorce raped
>>41395630Depends.The onus is on an experiencer to experience.
>>41404830Can a pig be an experiencer experiencing this?Some humans claim to have their first memories from when they were one or two years old and pigs are at least as smart as a three year old human
>>41385898The only proof i've seen for evolution is in viruses, bombarded with radiation, which either kicked the bucket or mutated out of control and changed back to their previous form as soon as the radiation was removed (it preserved it's original dna and removed all mutations). I don't get the argument that common dna == a family chain between life forms, when writing code you reuse what works in different programs, you would expect a creator to do the same thing when programming our dna, it seems like a stupid point to make. I haven't seen a good explanation on how the source of information comes to being from matter using evolutionary terms. It seems every single theory biologists have is either just another ((scientists think)) faith system that was pulled from their ass or what they put forward ends up being wrong. Evolution also has to explain how the universe comes into being given it's intrinsically linked to the cause and effect chains of the universe and it's just a branch of that cause and effect chain - it should be able to unwind that cause and effect chain and explain the start of the universe if it is true, but at the moment it cannot explain how it started itself. Also we have to admit might makes right and philosophy is pure bullshit if we conclusively prove evolution as the first cause, which means we need to unwind the scientific movement as it stands on the foundations of the enlightenment - a mostly Christian philosophical movement which gave birth to evolution which comes with it's own implications that if the foundations which modern science is built on is bullshit, how do we not know that the entire tree said movement spawn isn't bullshit itself (inb4 we can test it, those testing methods would be built on the foundations of bullshit)?
>>41404690This is wrong. Technological advancement is exponential if you are living at the start of the growth curve. It flattens off to nothing after a certain period of time. Computers today are barley more powerful than they were 10 years ago. Any period of time before that they doubled in power every year. Once you hit a point of knowledge and technology the resources needed to advance that knowledge/technology becomes exponential and the reward for said investment becomes additive instead of multiplicative. We have seen this in real-time with AI which is now at a wall where they need hundreds of billions to get a 10% upgrade on the previous model itself which cost a fraction of that. Additive gains will eventually trend to near 0 in comparison to the sum total functionality of X technology and it will cost more sum of all the previous investments in said technology to see that near 0 improvement. Human knowledge and technology has a functional hard cap which is how much resources it takes to see improvements and that itself is hardcapped by the total resources on the planet.
>>41405026>Cause and effect chains of the universe and What about brute facts? What about true randomness?
We know that genes determine how a lifeform grows. We know that new genes appear as lifeforms reproduce. We can literally see in real time as new mutations show up before our eyes such as in the case of Darwin's finches. Literally the only way to deny evolution is to pretend that genes don't exist.
