>>41582580
>"Saint" Dyer
The knock off not as funny Sam Hyde who, unlike Sam Hyde, still has deep moral investment in this world to the point that he gets emotionally outraged over things he disagrees with? He has the makings of a Saint?

>Gnosticism, you are saved because you learned a fact?
Absolute projection. "Gnosis" is a spiritual experience where you experience the true nature of things and therefore transcend illusory experiences. There are analogues in Hinduism with "moksha" and Buddhism with "nirvana" or "nibanna."

The projection here is that Orthodox salvation is conditional on knowing "true facts" or dogma rather than any specific spiritual experience - simply being incorrect on whether Jesus was created or eternal or misunderstanding the Trinity means that Yahweh damns you forever.

>You meditated and saw a beam of light? Ridiculous
I know right? Having visions of the uncreated light is a gold sticker star for spiritual ascent? Again, projection

>Gnostics are degenerates that want God while rejecting the 10 Commandments
I'll give credit to Dyer that he's unlike his extremely anti-semitic fanbase that doesn't see the irony of deifying Jewish mythological figures and the Jewish god. However, the 10 Commandments was part of the Mosaic Law which the Orthodox reject anyways. Jews don't even believe the 10 Commandments apply to anyone but themselves.

I understand the Orthodox argument that the 10 commandments are sort of an extrapolation of the Spirit and core of the Mosaic law, but if the 10 commandments are just an arbitrary formulation of what the "secret truth" is of Judaism, how is that any different than the logic Gnostics use in reading the Old Testament?

>>41582580
Gnosticism is a religion that is based on direct experience, while it is often misrepresented to say there is inherent liturgy and dogma associated with it is a misnomer. The only way to truly experience Gnosticism is to practice meditation and ritual to the point of psychic awareness. Has Jay Dyer contacted the inner planes or established a dialogue with the godforms? If no then his point is automatically invalid. Gnosticism is not a path to be spoken of it is to be experienced, no matter how many eagerly vocal zealots want to misrepresent it.

>>41582628
>The projection here is that Orthodox salvation is conditional on knowing "true facts" or dogma rather than any specific spiritual experience - simply being incorrect on whether Jesus was created or eternal or misunderstanding the Trinity means that Yahweh damns you forever.

/thread

>>41582628
I'll also add that viewing "Gnosticism" as a single category or denomination really misunderstands Christian history.

The Church Fathers categorized any type of over-Hellenized denomination of Christianity as "Gnostic." Even Simon Magus's cult the "Simonians" who were just applying Pythagorean and Neoplatonic ideas to Christianity were called "Gnostic." The Justinian heretics that Saint Hippolytus of Rome says were worshipping Dionysus as the one true god with Yahweh being a lesser god were "Gnostic." And of course, what "Gnosticism" refers to, those strands of Christianity which viewed the Old Testament Yahweh as the evil demiurge and Jesus as an incarnation from the World of Forms, were also called Gnostic.

Even in these lattermost denominations there is considerable differences, some of which may not even have origin in Greek sects. If you study Jewish Kabbalah, you'll shockingly discover some Kabbalists believe that Satan, the demons, and the Earth emerged from the Shekinah (Sofia) improperly creating without the express participation of Chokmah (Jews don't like saying this, but essentially the Logos). It's entirely plausible that this Gnostic Christianity may have had deep influence from Jewish mystical sects; while Kabbalah wasn't formalized until the medieval period, it had a lot of precedent up until then, even to the point of Philo of Alexandria practicing magical numerology.

I expected better of Dyer than to use the improper misnomer of "Gnosticism" - although I do know he is referring to these anti-demiurge sects of Christianity which heavily utilize the Nag Hammadi library

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>>41582580
God completely destroyed glow dyers genetic chance of offspring.

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Jew Dyer aka Gay Liar aka Debate Me Bro quotes on Spiritual Judaism aka Christinsanity,

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Firstly buy an ad for your shitty e-celeb.

Secondly.

>In gnosticism you are saved because you learned a fact?
Scientia potentia est.

>You meditated and saw a beam of light, This is ridiculous.
What is direct experience?

>Gnostics are degenerates that want God while rejecting the ten commandments
>Psalm 82:6
>1 Corinthians 3:16
>Luke 17:20-21
Who is "God" here?

>>41582580
You are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. Gnosis simply provides the direct knowledge that grounds this faith unshakeably.

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>>41582580
The very notion that you are required to be saved at all is built on paranoia of the untrained youth.

A true gnostic knows that he can save himself, or accept with grace the outcome, whichever way it goes.

Calling a group of individual intelligences degenerate because of your weakness is not wisdom or effective in removing the perceived threat. It only serves to create angry little peons like you.

>>41583041
I think contrarian figures such as Dyer would be surprised to know how many times the word "gnosis" is used in the Greek New Testament, as well as the symbolic meaning of the context in which the word is used.

>>41583108
Just wait until you tell him that the word "Sacramentum" or "Sacrament" in the Latin vulgate is a one to one translation of the word "Mysterion" or "mystery." Literally, in Revelation 12, the woman giving birth to the child and the dragon with seven heads are both "Sacraments," the same kind of "Sacrament" Jesus talks about in Mark 4.

>>41583131
Something tells me he picks and chooses his battles or looks for easy targets because someone with an elementary knowledge and practice of the Hermetic arts could easily dismantle his arguments. I feel like debate defeats the point of seeking a spiritual path because ultimately spirituality is a conversation between oneself and the ineffable. Anything else is just a middleman.

>>41583150
To be fair, I do believe genuine debate can be a part of your tradition. In Judaism, so much of theology comes from debate among Rabbis, and you are encouraged to bring your questions to others to discuss and debate them. Obviously though, they are very insular.

In Ancient Greece, the foundational documents of Platonism were Socrates debating propositions. There's a culture of debate there.

Dyer, on the other hand, doesn't debate in good faith. He's not interested in debate as a means to search for truth, he claims to have found it so it's about defending that truth.
He does these two tactics.

1. Gish-gallops with loaded context-specific concepts and ridicles the opponent when they don't understand it
For example,
>What's your epistemological foundation of how you believe the things you believe?
>How does your philosophical paradigm account for the existence of immaterial objects such as logic, math, etc.
>So why does the Angel of the Lord appear in the Old Testament as heavily anthromorphized to the point of even eating and drinking with Abraham and Moses?

He will then keep re-asserting these ideas even if you answer them or you need clarification as proof of his victory.

2. If this doesn't work, he tries to overpower his opponent through aggressive rhetoric, ad-homineming, or strawmanning.

3. If this doesn't work, he tries to boot you / censor you / block you

This works with his audience because his audience believes Jesus is synonymous with the truth and Plato's "the good," which means that anybody who is critical of him defending Jesus is evil or promoting falsehood.

>>41583150
Dyer only argues against people who already agree with the "baseline theology" (See: Nicaean Christianity) so he can use his admittedly extensive knowledge of the Patristics to pick and choose lines from their work to debate them on the minutiae of theology. I would personally like to see him debate a Neoplatonist, but I doubt he'd ever agree to that.

He won't even debate people on the issue of sola fida without making them agree to terms that amount to "I win before the debate even starts."

>>41583235
To be honest I already avoid debates like the plague but especially debates that require me to be familiar with my opponents belief system but they're unwilling to familiarize themselves with my belief system. That's not an even playing field.

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>>41582580 It's over for gnosticels.

>>41583229
Like I said here >>41583235 he's not particularly interested in debating people who don't already essentially accept the premise of his arguments. It's why he limits his scope significantly to Protestants and Catholics and will never debate someone who comes from another tradition on the basis of even defending the truth. The kind of debate style he does, as you say where he simply just re-asserts Patristic concepts and Nicaean theology, is very closed-loop.

It is, in essence, about defending "orthodoxy" (not just EO, but "right-thinking") and not really about defending any truth. He defends his EO belief in the same manner as he used to defend Calvinism when he was Calvinist.

>>41582641
Gnosticism, as the "historical term" and what these guys mean by it when they say it, is essentially just Christianity that took the Middle Platonism that all of mainstream/orthodox Christianity pilfered from to form their theology in a totally different direction than the rest. That's the reason why guys like Ireanaeus and the other Church Fathers seethed about it so much.

>>41582580
the entire concept of being 'saved' is wrong. slave religion.

>>41583235
He did debate Boglord Dave Martel and most recently did a debate with Mark Brahmin. Not necessarily Neoplatonists, but both their ideas have a Neoplatonic reading of Norse and Greco-Roman mythology specifically.

I haven't watched the Mark Brahmin one yet simply because I find Mark Brahmin more insufferable at points (but less insufferable than others) than Jay - I mean the dude basically says that because the Norse pantheon and Celtic pantheon were preserved somewhat by Christian monks, that Norse / Celtic mythology represents a sort of Semitic mythology. He also tries to paint Dionysus as the core of Judaism and as the big bad guy, which is completely ahistorical towards more Ancient Greek conceptions of good and evil and the role of Dionysus in the pantheon. Not to mention, I don't find that interpretation valid at least as far as Yahweh is concerned.

>>41583311
>Dave Martel
I didn't watch this. How did he fare?

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>>41583229
Prob the best breakdown of what he actually does vs what he claims to do I have read. I hate watch him sometimes just for kicks but he really is nothing more than a conspiratainment grifter.

>>41583311
I'll also add that Mark gets just as morally butthurt / censorship heavy if you criticize his positions. He blocked me on Twitter after I debated with him about Dionysus.

>>41583321
It's been a while, but from what I remember, he did well as far as comparative mythology is concerned - I mean Jay didn't really have an answer to Dave's criticism of monotheism, in that Orthodox Christianity really is polytheistic given the role of angels and deified Saints, even if we call "God," "angels," and "Saints" different labels - ultimately, they are just divine entities who at some level communicate the ultimate divinity.

I think Jay got him on the question of relative moral teachings - Dave argued that different ethnic groups / tribes with different religions have different morals in different contexts, and Jay had a good counter of like "Say that Horus visits me and says I'm the genetic descendants of the Pharaoh and he has told me that I am entitled to a harem that permanently lives with me, why under your conception would that be morally wrong?" And Dave didn't really have a good answer to this issue.

I think given Jay's form of argumentation, he did pretty well all things considered. I don't think one necessarily won over the other.

>>41583229
>>41583344
The trve conspiratard angle is that Jay Dyer, as well as most of the Orthodox/Tradcath grifters online, as well as guys like Steven Anderson and basically anyone getting huge amounts of algorithmic interaction via social media are being orchestrated as a pressure-release-valve/redirection of discontent of young men. If anyone believes that Instagram and Twitter flooding young men with BASED Christian hypebeast edits is organic, then they are straight up bovine who are getting suckered into supporting a regime that hates them.

>>41583366
>I think Jay got him on the question of relative moral teachings - Dave argued that different ethnic groups / tribes with different religions have different morals in different contexts, and Jay had a good counter of like "Say that Horus visits me and says I'm the genetic descendants of the Pharaoh and he has told me that I am entitled to a harem that permanently lives with me, why under your conception would that be morally wrong?" And Dave didn't really have a good answer to this issue.
On that specific question, it's better to just rock up with the "It wouldn't be" and roll it out. You'd never convince his following of Orthodox LARPers that you're morally upright anyway. But I know Dave Martel has his quirks and issues. It's why I personally stay away from these guys and any kind of debatebro Internet Bloodsports culture. If I debate anyone it's just my own friends on stuff, where we can all sort of agree to keep from playing cheap gotcha tricks.

Mostly I just read the Platonists though, and other mythology and mysticism.

Jay Dyer? More like Gay Dyer.

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>>41582580
Dyer is himself a gnostic. He believes he has divine knowledge that he rationalizes by using presuppositional apologetics. Any argument he levels against gnostics is thus a self-refuting one.

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>>41582628
>>41582580

Jay is an extremely intelligent man and right about many things and his epistemological arguments for God are impressive but based on my own research, I think Robert A. Monroe had the best grasp on what reality really is.

Thomas Campbell and Bernardo Kastrup have tried to repackage his exploration and resell it to normies but its not that great.

God - THE ABSOLUTE - 100% exist, I agree but reality is all consciousness and we as humans are all i-here's that eventually rejoin to our i-there to improve the quality of our consciousness so we eventually break away from the Earth Life System and become a Miranon like being and leave the unvierse.

Notice that Jay in spite of his brilliance will not touch subjects like OBEs and NDEs because they take a torch to his worldview.

>>41583374
That's basically the way I view this online Christian "revival". It's the most convenient and easy answer to problem of the degeneration of the western world. It doesn't solve anything other than their own emotional turmoil and only temporarily though. Slave morality is too tempting I suppose.

>>41583413
>>41583440
He doesn't debate or touch on things that don't agree, essentially, with the framework of Nicaean Christianity because he is an agent (he literally works for InfoWars!) to push the "False RETVRN" revivalism on dejected and dissatisfied young men. If the elites can get them into churches where their vital force for critique and analysis can be rerouted into debating whether Christ had one nature or whether Mary was a perpetual virgin or not then those people, the smartest of a generation, can be effectively neutered.

What someone SAYS they do (speak "the truth," encourage "awakening") and what they ACTUALLY do (funnel young men into moribund and decaying institutions which do nothing but cattlechute them) are separate.

>>41582580
>>41582628
>>41582641
>>41582705

You’re all arguing abstractions while confusing categories that only make sense after direct contact with non-physical consciousness.

Jay’s strength is epistemology and metaphysics, and he’s right about the basic point that any worldview must explain logic, personhood, moral value, and intelligibility. That’s why materialism collapses under scrutiny. But Jay also confines himself to traditions and texts, and that’s exactly why he won't engage with NDEs, veridical OBEs, shared death experiences, or cross-culturally consistent non-local perception. Those data destroy both materialism and classical exoteric theology because they show that consciousness precedes matter and social constructs.

The mistake the Gnostic anons are making is acting like “gnosis” just means any inner vision or psychic event. That’s not what the original Gnostics meant, and it’s not what actual explorers in the non-physical domains discover. “Gnosis” isn’t trivia, and it isn’t dogma. It’s the direct encounter with consciousness as the ground of all being. It’s not salvation by learning a fact. It’s transformation through contact with the larger self.

The Orthodox mistake is the opposite: grounding salvation in propositions and essence-language, while ignoring the fact that tens of thousands of medically verified NDEs show conscious agency, perception, judgment, relationships, and moral consequence outside the body entirely. That alone already collapses every doctrinal boundary they’re fighting about.

>>41583452
It's all going to, in my opinion, culminate in a Messianic apocalyptic moment where one of these big-platform trad guys is going to start openly talking about how the Second Coming really is about to happen, and because the guys who are getting swept up into this revivalism are already more or less apocalyptic in mindset anyway, they're going to go along with it.

Since the Second Coming will never happen, I can't imagine what that'll do. All I foresee is that this "revivalism" has the potential to cause serious mass hysteria.

>>41583461

agree with the first part but i need something more substantive for your latter claims.

i may just be a jay fanboy because I love the way he debates and crushes muslims/atheist but that's just me having a great respect for logical arguments.

ive had several OBEs myself and I find those experiences extremely difficult to reconcile with orthodox Christianity.

>>41583452
>>41583374

I hate to be devil's advocate here, but what else do you do?

I wish we lived in a universe where we have this collective revival of Neoplatonism and we take all these fantastic preserved cultural mythologies and seek God through the divine truths hidden within, through our own individualistic expressions of rituals which we all accept among one another.

But that's not the world we live in. We live in a world where, for the past 100 years, the Church was the centerpiece of the community, the one day of the week where everyone stops what they are doing and gets together as a community, talks about the neighbors, the kids, has breakfast together, talks about politics, etc.

It's very easy from the standpoint of the elite to see that we have this infrastructure that still exists that's fallen into disuse and that maybe reviving this architecture can salvage the system - the only other solution is creating a new spiritual-social architecture, and you can't really do that without totally uprooting the civilization.

I mean, once Constantine took over Rome, the Roman Empire wasn't really ever the same from that point onwards. You could argue the Roman Empire really died with Theodosius outlawing the old religions and cultural customs.

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>>41583474
>latter claims
About the false nature of this "revival?" Let me put it this way: I'm supposed to believe that the same social media algorithms which have done nothing but support absolute slop and disgusting degeneracy have suddenly been "overturned" by based sensitive young men who are leading some God-ordained crusade? Give me a break.

>Pic definitely related. This stuff really kicked into a new fever pitch with this.
>>41583475
Why do I "have to do" anything? It doesn't matter what people believe. They can believe in the Christ God for all I care. I don't have some deranged belief that Yahweh is taking the souls of all Christians into some astral realm where they're tortured for loosh. They're all worshiping God and the Gods in their own way, even if they're not quite understanding it. Even if they're getting the details wrong, I believe that the Gods will see their hearts.

But I don't really care about elites or society or trying to impose some structure upon it or fighting against the decay. We, you and I and everyone we know, are basically powerless serfs. Maybe you're not, but I know where I fit on the power structure in society. But that's fine by me. I don't have agency to change things beyond my control. That, to me, is a liberating realization.

>>41583374

I can tell with certainty you dont watch jays content. hes nothing like the online "grifters" you mentioned. he gives a master class in philosophy and epistemology.

>>41583512

Jay is not well known or popular, he appeals to a niche of philosophy nerds. The only true suspect thing about him is his ties with SAM HYDE.

>>41583514
How?

>>41583514
I know that he is a good debater, and he is well-versed in the logic and claims of his tradition. He is aware of the intricacies of the theological arguments of Christianity better than most apologists and I am not refuting that.

The point is to recognize what his, and all of the guys I mentioned, are ACTUALLY DOING, which is rerouting dejected and dissatisfied young men into these cattlechutes where their mental and physical energy is being spent on debating the Great Schism of 1054 or the energy-essence distinction rather than anything remotely challenging to elite power structures. I am suspect of ANYONE who gets signalboosted by all forms of media, and you should be too. This guy works for InfoWars.

>>41583522

Because all your "arguments" are non sequtirs and ad hominem attacks. You think Jay is some mainstream Christian revivalist which tells me you have no clue what he actually does. Watch his debates or videos on epistemology. He talks about a lot of occultist stuff too.

>>41583518
I disagree. He is a big collaborator with Alex Jones and InfoWars, and that is incredibly suspect to me, more than his ties with Sam Hyde which is a huge red flag in of itself.

>>41583512
Oh, I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm just being the devil's advocate here (i.e., an advocate for the elite in power).

I think most of the "elite" in our society are spiritual serfs, ironically enough. But even if they were like you and I, I'm just saying I understand the perspective as to why they are trying to salvage this system that is absolutely failing.

>I don't have the agency to change things beyond my control. That, to me, is a liberating realization
I've concluded this too. I accept that I am here for a reason, to learn and develop, and that at the end of the day, the telos of Western civilization being dismantled really isn't personal to me either.

>>41583534

ok your last paragraph clears it up - i get where you're coming from. this isnt a conspiracy on his end though - it just seems he's attracted a following because he DOES make brilliant arguments and observations. of course that doesnt prove anything he claims out right but its understandable why people "seeking" are attracted to him.

i watch a lot of his content so id really like to see him touch the subject of OBEs and NDEs because as i said, those subjects take a torch to his belief system.

>>41583545

i can agree with that. its borderline genetic fallacy if you want to mix that up with his worldview however.

i will admit his associations are highly suspect.

The world is dying, but our divine light is not.

>>41583543
Surely if you were well informed you could tell me yourself what he does and why it's respectable rather than having me watch one of his videos? I actually knew someone else who watched Dyer and every time we got in a "theological debate" he told me to watch a 40min - 1hour video instead of presenting his arguement with his own words. Asking someone to climb up a hill just so they can understand your perspective is looking for self affirmation rather than seeking to put your word to the test.

>>41582580
Does bro believe in theosis as described by the early church fathers like Athanasius or Irenaeus himself?

>>41583551
I'll be charitable and say that I think that everyone, both the elites and the "people" especially those invested in the revivalism/tradlarp/whatever-we-should-call-it, are trying to, as you say, salvage this system. The Empire, and we are an Empire, is collapsing in real time. There's nothing anyone can do to change this immutable fact, but just as no one can really salvage it, no one (in a true position to speak truth-to-power) can admit that we are in complete civilizational decline. It's an admission of defeat of the deepest level. But as I said I've recognized the limitations of my agency. I spent a long time flittering in and around with different attempts to "revive" things of all stripes and flavors and in the end they're all galley slaves trying to force their way to the wheelhouse to stop the ship from hitting the rocks. Pointless venture.
>>41583563
>>41583566
Again as I said I'm not refuting his ability to debate. He is a skilled orator and debater, and knows his wheelhouse better than most Christians, and I'm sure that it is why people are attracted to his content. But one has to question WHY he has such a platform to begin with. Why is he getting airwaved on one of the all-time biggest "alt-media" shill networks like InfoWars? What's with his ties to Sam Hyde? I'm sure that he believes what he's saying, but one has to question the aims of WHY he is being promoted in the first place, and that goes back to what I've been saying about this false revivalism.

>>41583581
He likes the church fathers that support orthodoxy and dislikes the ones that support catholic/Protestant/gnostic

>>41583131
>>41583108

word concept fallacies detected. this whole website is full of uneducated retards.

>>41583600
Fallacious in what aspect, surely if your intellectual understanding is superior you can articulate why my words are fallacious?

>>41583579

im not feeding you hours worth of jays content here you disingenuous well poisoning chuckle fuck. do your own work.

all your arguments against jay boil down to

>word concept fallacies
>ad hom
>non sequtirs

you're low tier.

>>41583591

You're paranoid and delusional. Not everyone who gains some degree of popularity is out to get you or working with elites. Jay is not even that popular to begin with and if he is becoming popular its because of his credibility and appeal.

No one on this board knows how debate works, absolute retards and reddit-tier.

>>41583612
I don't recall resorting to curse words within this conversation, is that all you bring to the table? Does Jay Dyer put forth the same effort to understand my beliefs and practices, do you? If not why do I owe someone an hour of my time if they won't listen to my perspective?

>>41582580
> In gnosticism you are saved because you learned a fact?
You are projecting Protestant theology unto ‘Gnosticism’, you know with using the word ‘saved’

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>>41582580

>>41583635
Jay seems fucking based

>>41583617
You are an unquestioning bovine with no critical thought if you don't find the fact that Jay Dyer is getting platformed on InfoWars, the biggest alt-media shill network, suspicious. I know that he has a dedicated audience who is willing to fight for him, as you are doing here, but that doesn't remove the fact that he is being GIVEN A MASSIVE PLATFORM by InfoWars and exposure to people outside of the "niche philosophical debate sphere" that you insinuated earlier.

>>41583651
Alex Jones had some good stuff with his old documentaries, recently his advertisement and merchandising leads me to believe he is in collusion with the same elites he spoke against. You can't tell who's who these days.

>>41583675
That's my point. Alex Jones and InfoWars occupies, in my head, the same "space" as Joe Rogan, Nick Fuentes, and all the "alt-media" types which are trying to engineer a separate media market pasture for people. I don't really know what to make of it, but I don't trust it and neither should anyone with critical thinking.

As I said I don't doubt Dyer's personal beliefs, but we have to ask yourselves the WHY of all of this. Why is it getting boosted? Why is there a general "tradlarp revival" across all social media algorithms? What is the end purpose of all of this? Did we all forget how they used algorithmic loops to create consensus like they did with COVID and the past 5-10 years? How is this any different? Do you think "we" won?

>>41583693
While I may sound opinionated I think many people use their idea of God to enact their form of subjugation and control upon others, want to know what kind of person someone is? Ask them what they think God is like. People use religion as a means of enacting their inner demon.

>>41582580
>look at this retarded thing
>it's more retarded than my retarded thing
>i win
Islam is the one true path. Allahu akbar.

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>>41583617
Debate me bro

>>41583591
Hey, I apologize if I'm coming across offensive. I wish I had optimism too.

Ecclasiastes
>For much wisdom can result in much sorrow, and those who increase their knowledge also increase their grief.

>>41582580
>really bro the only way you can be saved is by beliving in a blood sacrifice to saturn
>this religion makes total sense, don't ask questions
>here, rub this ash into your 3rd eye.

>>41584237
Pretty much

>>41582580
>A retard said a thing
Cool blog

>>41582580
Then "St." Dyer is a fucking moronic religious fanatic - a lying bigot! That is NOT what Gnostics believe! How many times can an arrogant, overweening Right Christcuck ignoramus be forgiven for the same "sin" he does over and over again? Therefore, you are the damned degenerates! You Christcucked 'Christains' break people down emotionally so that they will more willingly accept the horrible Spiritual Tyranny you're coercing them to accept!

When I come into your "Crutch", you will patiently explain that I am a hopeless, miserable wretch, the lowest scum in Creation, Unworthy of Life and damned to the Eternal fiery devil-filled monstrous Christcuck Hell if I don't accept your absurd psychotic "Solutions" from the schizophrenic and untrustworthy Omni-God with multiple personalities who hates all of Humanity! So, therefore, I am Unworthy of being a human being! What you do is ritually cover the miserable wreck that I am with your God-man's Blood and tell me that the Mad God will no longer see my wretchedness and "Save" me using your bloody whipped and Crucified God in magic rituals, because, somehow, His bloodshed, human sacrifice, and my ritual drowning, forgave me of all my "sins"! Proving that you loathe Humanity as much as he does! No! You just tried to hide them by repressing them! They're still there, unresolved, and your suppression of them as being Evil with bring them all back into my life as "demon" possession from "outside" of me! So, Fuck Off! (A shibboleth proving I'm not an AI.) Oh, your Christcuckery doesn't know what that means!

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>>41583645
If you like spiritual judaism then yeah.

>>41583600
the words seem meaningfully relevant to the argument being made

>>41584562
I am talking about the old man with the moustache

>>41583514
>I can tell you don't watch Jay's content
>After the guy just got done shitting on Jay
Astute observation there, buddy.
>>41583534
>>41583374
This guy is absolutely correct that JD is an InfoWars grifter shill rerouting disaffected young men's energy into frivolous pursuits that will keep them neutralized and serving the system for generations to come.
>ad hominem
He was discussing the behavior of JD and others, the mechanism of their action. It's plain as day what they do if you're above 115IQ.

Still waiting for Jay to acknowledge that Jesus was sent by his Father, El Elyon, to deliver humanity from the demon Yahweh.

>>41584562
Oh shit. Haha I just saw the name Jay. Didnt seem like something Jay Dyer would actually say. Mu dumb mistake.

Guys i already “debated” twice today but I really need to debate again. Someone help me please. We can debate each other.

>>41582580
Still to chicken to debate based Adam green.

>>41582580
>read some gnostic scriptures
>pray like gnostics say to
>miracles happen to me in real life
I read all the religions and pray the way all of them say to, and they all produce holy effects and miracles if you have faith and commitment to them. Except for ones that are evil or not-based, such as circumcision or anything that's gay. God is real, miracles are real. Jay Dyer is based. Theosophy is the white hat esoterists that made an open source version of occultism, which means they declassified all the occult secrets. That means they are the opposite of occultists. They are the people who are revealing the truth to the masses. The ones revealing the Revelations.

Good on him for covering technocracy. This board needs to focus on that.
>>522591164
>>>/pol/522573885

* >>>/pol/522591164

>>41586805

https://courtenayturner.substack.com/p/courtenay-as-guest-on-jay-dyer-dark

>>41582580
Gay Sire is a cocksucking retard

>>41582919
Jay blaming his wife for not having kids when it's clear she's his beard and that he's a fucking faggot. All of his e-buds fuck trannies. Do you think he's any different?

>>41582580
Not just any fact, the truth. A truth we cannot ignore, for it comes from the very core of our beings. We can't simply be told the truth to comprehend it, it must come from within.
To that end, hebrew nonsense is incredibly forced and insufferable as it requires not knowing the truth or not accepting the truth to fall under its spell

>>41582580
I dont need whoever this is to tell me why Gnosticism is heresy

>>41586897
Kinda funny he throws her under the bus to save face in the eyes of his followers who might think it strange a g-dly man such as himself would not have children. E celeb cancer.

>saint
careful

>>41587554
Why? Ortho fags and catholics love jawbone relics, kissing corpses, worshipping statues and other such idolatry. What is one more saint gonna do?

>>41582919
>>41586897
>>41587412
It's way more simpler than that. They use birth control but birth control is bad optics for a tradlarper like him. It'll double up when she actually does get pregnant and he can claim it's some fucking miracle from God.

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>>41587688
yeah death, eternal life, relics, it's all pretty metal, can't disagree

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>>41587714
https://youtu.be/OFVrtXpY2ec

>>41587711
Someone on here claimed she has kids with other men but I couldn't find a source.
>>41587721
Not exactly true, I still often think about Jesus, Uncle Ted and Townes Van Zandt

>>41587886
none of these people are ordinary, and fame isn't the point.
>Memento Mori

>>41587711
>>41587886

>it was real in my mind

Your hallucinations and fantasies aren't facts.

>>41587688

Kill yourself protestant scumbag.

>>41587688
>catholics love jawbone relics, kissing corpses, worshipping statues and other such idolatry
Exactly why I'm not a Catholic but just a regular Christian, that stuff never sat right with me.

The Son is the Icon of the Father

>>41582580
Yea it's dumb, but so is the idea that God prefomed a human sacrifice on himself to himself inorder to save people from the damnation he is obligated to met out because some cave people ate a fruit (after being tricked by a talking snake).

>>41588227
Shove an old fingerbone up your ass and say ten hail marys

>>41588346
He didn't perform anything. All of his emotions were real and the suffering he endured was real to show us we weren't alone, that when we cry, he cries, when we suffer, he feels it too. He is what a true leader is, he suffers with his people and doesn't just look at us from above, watching all and doing nothing, like what wicked people assume (actually this is what evil people assume because they are projecting, and that's what they would do in his place.)

>>41588418
That's a heretical interpretation of Christian salvation.

>>41588458
Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory breaks the Trinity, therefore it's wrong. God doesn't punish himself, that's not what's happening on the cross.

>>41588458
>>41590715
Stop listening to the words of men, and start listening to the words of Jesus Christ.

he looks like a demon hylic archon

also because he is a spiritless construct he doesn't understand gnosis is not performative action but understanding the truth/self in a world doing its best to keep you ignorant

>>41588418
>jesus was super kind and empathetic bro
>heals like 5 people (at the price of being his cult soul slave)
>tosses 90% of humanity to eternal torture

what did the abrahamoid mean by this

>>41590727
How did the Apostles minister and preach Christianity when they didn't have the Bible?

>So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thessalonians 2:15

The church comes before the Bible.

>>41585691
Based

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>>41587714
Fuck you, I thought it was a band

>>41590959
The zine 'Death to the World' was started by ex-punks-turned-monks, so close enough.

>>41583721
This alone woke me up to religion at a young age, it always just felt like a method of control and its why under God was added to the pledge of allegiance in the 50s

>>41583693
>Alex Jones and InfoWars occupies
I remember back in the day, it was all about 9/11.
I personally has always some reservation against their monomanic rage, yet they may have been some argument I would not debunk. It makes time, the official version has been corrected with Almunium as a cause etc.

>>41583475
You destroy Christianity, while promoting literally every old "established" religions (no new age cults).

I'm not joking. This needs to happen and it needs to happen in America first. There needs to be a social movement which encourages and forces an out loud disavowal of Christianity, while a paganistic religion is favoured. This pagan religion can't be half assed or larp, it needs to be fully actualized and counter to Christianity.

This movement is going to need to enact a persecution similar to what the Japanese did to Christians. It needs to focus on utterly decimating the relationship between believer & church. With the persecution focusing on forcing the christians and ex-christians to do things such as burn bibles, trample on images of Jesus, etc. Every act must be a symbolic decimation of the relationship to the religion. It needs to go much farther than the Japanese did.

Christianity can't be destroyed by killing it's members. But you can destroy it by forcing it to become irrelevant, ignored and disconnected.

Before active Christians are forced to do this, we need to target ex- Christians. They need to go out online and speak against Christianity, then perform an act such as cross trampling, etc while denouncing it entirely.

>>41591202
Once enough movement is done online to get traction and talk, there needs to be coordination to enact public disavowals of Christianity in the real world. People need to make big shows of how much the religion is foreign to them and that they no longer want any association with it.

Doing this has to be done while doing reverse-apologetics & testimonials. Talking about the evil of Christianity and all it's flaws.

the best part is that this action can be spread amongst people of any non-christian religion. Jews, Muslims, pagans, etc can join in. This will provide open support for the Christian rejection.

All this needs a couple things to function
1. It cannot be antisemitic as it's focus (this will cause the movement to get politicized and it will die out)
2. It must start off in America.
3. The alternative religion should be an "established" paganism. One that hasn't died out or doesn't need massive reconstruction. Platonism may work, eastern religions are also acceptable. Especially Hinduism, especially because of the reputation Indians have as being dirty.

when Christ trampling is established decently, it will need to go further. This can only happen once a large amount of people have been swayed over to the pagan religion. When this occurs, the christians need to be publically ostracized. They need to be excluded from communities, treated like criminals and shunned. They need to be totally ignored.

This will isolate the majority of Christians who are bandwagoners and will force them in time to join the rest of the crowd.

There will need to also be a group of "reverse missionaries". People who's goal is to deconvert christians. This requires another threefold process

1. Detect christians suitable for deconversion
2. Have them commit apostasy & Christ trampling
3. Monitor the deconverted afterwards.

Ideally, the majority target of these should be families.

>>41591256
Similarly to how Christians set up neighborhood associations to monitor entire regions of countries, so should the anti-christian movement. These associations deal with the spreading of paganism. This grouping also functions in ensuring that households in their region have no Christians. To ensure that they do not have them in their immediate family, in their employment, etc.

To entice participation, there should be rewards given (within reason), ideally monetary, for the finding of Christians who are amp to apostate. If possible, special rewards should be given for especially prominent members of churches and Christian communities. IE; A reward for deconverting a priest should a higher amount of cash (if it is a cash reward) than it is for converting a normie.

>>41591299
This association will need to be relentless. If they find a place that is even a little bit of potential, they must investigate and intrude on it immediately.

Apostate Christians must be monitored consistently. Never using forceful language against them, but leveraging social connections and friendships.

for apostates that choose the "pagan" religion being spread, they should be encouraged to become a parishioner of the pagan temple or group being set up in their community. Better if they can get entire families to do this.

Contributions to their pagan temple don't need to be (solely) monetary, the apostate who is enrolled in the parishioner system should be encouraged to do whatever they can within their means for the temple. This must be associated with declaring generosity as a virtue.

If all this is done relentlessly, then Christianity in America will be utterly decimated. This will change the entire world, and make similar actions in other countries easier.

America's Christian hotbed states should be targeted the hardest in this process. Temples should be built in their communities and they should be doing generosity and communal help to levels that would shame the Christian utterly.

>>41591332
As a final note, the paganism again chosen, must be totally counter to Christianity, while exceeding it. Hinduism (real, traditional Hinduism) is great because it is polytheist, animist and allows for personal relationships. It's people are seen as dirty, which means it can be spread amongst the downtrodden of america. It's best if this Hinduism is a non-caste based one (such as tantric shaivism). It has the imagery that tempts the Catholic and Orthodox, while providing the "formless" god(s) which comfort the protestant. All this, while having the ritual all parties crave and the allure of meditation, which provides legitimate experiences. Hinduism would also provide a backdoor for all other pagan religions to come in.

Alternatively, Confucianism may also work, due to its focus on family and virtue. Platonism is also possible as it's deeply familiar and can be easily reconstructed.

The pagan religion selected should also make some sort of stink about allying with the indigenous peoples in America and gaining their favour. All while casting Christians as demons who have stolen their land, having raped and pillaged their people. While the pagan group seems to liberate them from their bondage.

The five most important groups for reaching in this process will be;
1. Young people
2. Indigenous Americans
3. Families.
4. Political leaders (both in small locations such as villages and townships and large ones such as cities or even whole states)
5. Environmentalists.

All of this will necessitate eventually changing the structure of American governance to something like a horizontal "democratic" khanate or a confederalist tribal-republic. But this will naturally develop with ease after the destruction of Christianity and the allegiance of the indigenous.

This will destroy Christianity, and it will have an effect in permanently altering the entire world through a rube goldberg type sequence. America will become like a true paradise, unlike anything.

>>41582580
Umm sweaty, you religious fags need to wake up, it’s human nature to crave sexual intimacy/pleasure, only you nerd incel types act like a man and woman making love is some kind of holy sin against the god that in his perfection and infinite knowledge somehow designed you with the prime directive of multiplying by sexual intimacy, 80 - 90 percent of people are good people with a decent moral compass, none of them , us.. want to be subjected to some radical religious dogma weather that be Islam Judaism or Christianity.
Christianity is the best religion for the normal person whom wants to enjoy life as the children of god, as a child of god, our only responsibility is to enjoy GODs creation…..which is life, any “broken rules” could be forgiven if one truly was repentant not decapitated or some shit.
Live life
Do no harm
Be happy

>>41591409
What would a “universal” White pagan religion look like? Im all for the wholesale destruction of Christianity but what would we actually replace it with? Modern paganism and new age is a lot of recycled animism but not much of a “coherent”‘worldview and ideology (off christianity isnjust the end result of millinia of jewish syncretism but I digress)

I was banned from his server for saying there are differences between the races. They said I'm a "darwinian eugenicist". He's a fed

>>41594423
He likes to drop hints about how fedtastic he is, AJ did the same thing saying he has CIa family members. I guess those niggers thinks it makes them seem cool. I commented on one of the clip channels he claims not to run but still comments telling the owner of the channel to ban certain people, etc. about how orthodoxy is a memefag religion not all that different from catholicism ie worshipping gay statues, bones and other “relics”, drinking jesus blood and eating flesh, and the focus on “mysteries” being basically a form of esotericism and he commented “LOL”. Why even bother replying with such low effort, just so I know it got his attention? Or to signal to his lemming followers it was a wrong think?

here's something to help us all 'transcend', npi, the bullshit ITT, something important that matters no matter what you are

https://youtu.be/Qdj0Kwr_5QY

>>41594045
Science, truth

Paganism is just another form of archon worship. Be a sovereign spirit

>>41595152
Yeah, im not sure why I wrote that. Never really felt comfortable with the term “pagan” myself as it is one of those cases (like satanism, atheism and any kind of anti-____) of identifying yourself with the very thing you are against with terms given to you by your enemy. Similar etymology to the term “heathen” implying a dumb peasant.

>>41582628
>>41582641
It's not really the place of gnostics to argue in favour of gnosticism as a saving. It just comes across like you dont know what you are talking about. Anyone arguing against it, equally doesn't know what they are talking about.

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>>41582580
Jay is definitely relatives with Alex Schultz (a gay jew) of not clones, of not the same guy. if it wasn't for the ears being slightly different i would think they are the same guy.

>>41595872
being handsome and white must be so cool

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>>41595849
We get it. You are a good little jew on a stick worshipper and love browns.

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>ACK:
the religion

>>41595728
Yeah but I'm not Gnostic. I'm the first post you are responding to. I'm just saying Jay's refutation is dumb

>>41586897
He straight up used her to get close to Alex Jones as her ex-husband apparently used to work for him and he "seduced" her while she was still married to him. He's clearly full of shit regarding the "can't have kids" bit as apparently they both only realized it a week or 2 after getting married. And yet she's been married before and apparently has kids from a previous relationship? Gimme a fucking break lol. He's a fame whore more than anything, trying to capture a niche. But yes, a man who livestreams himself taking bubblebaths and knowingly associates himself with tranny lovers like Alex Jones and Sam Hyde is deeply suspect so I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's a closeted gay. The bigger problem is that he's a sociopathic grifter and such people are better off in a casket than walking among us.

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>>41595983
And it's happening rn.
Christians are slowly wasting away.
Accept Darkness and vitality will return.
We are the gnostics, you suicidal schizos, lol, accept and live.
Demiurge is ded, this is why you're wasting slowly.

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>>41595974
>worships the race
>I am the spiritual semite, not him
Spiralling. I just got out of an anti-Christian thread. Stop conceding universals to Chriggers and maybe you won't be at a tribal village african level of race-worshipping animist spirituality. Little anti-imperial dogshit spiritual semite wannabe.

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>>41582580
Not true.. Theres no such thing as salvation in gnosis, you can't be "saved" because you are salvation its self, you are God consciousness.. you cannot sever the light from it's self.. fucking retards.. True gnosis has nothing to do with either belief or faith, nothing to do with worship, its just a phase in the cycle of reincarnation that changes your being on a fundamental level, its a permanent change that propagates to your spirit (the real you) so that you remember who and what you were each time you return, (That hook nosed faggot kid that did the crypto scam) achieved gnosis in one of his past lives (you can tell if you know what to look for in their behavior), gnosis is why so many elites choose to be "bad people" because they know the universe is a playground, I choose to be good for the sake of good however. (Elon Musk is another ascended like me who chooses the light and love based path). (he incarnated as a rl shitposting autistic flailing retard for fun).

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Anyway, before the rude as shit israeli janny that does it for free cut me off

>>41595152
Fuck off, post-Chrigger.
>>41595470
>muh white
>noooooooo why am i pigeonholed as a country bumpkin???? whittes dinu nuffink. he a goodd boy
deserved.

>>41591739
Sex is holy and created by God. His only condition is that you pick one person to do it with, so the offspring can have a stable upbringing. The fact that this is the main rule that filters people shows how degenerate athiest are.

>>41582580
>You meditated and saw a beam of light? This is ridiculous.
99% of Christian conversion is private, inward, non-verifiable or repeatable experience. The EO prices this in by affirming apophatic theology and emphasising the "esoteric" aspects of the faith.
>while rejecting the ten commandments
Isn't what Gnostic literature says.

>>41598900
>not completely ignoring race as a factor delusionally means worshipping race. Cope harder tranny. Also fuck off with your buzzword jibberish.

>>41598900
>Repeatedly demonstrating below average reading comprehension and not understanding plain english. Seething about race.
Ngmi.

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>noooo all whites must think like me or we cant be utopian socialists
>you must be christian!
Nigger give the OCD word salad fuming and report spam a rest. You lost. Move on. Obsessed race marxist bumpkin. Sore loser as well. Just the type to do some nigger level slave ressentiment shit like stab someone with an ice pick for not letting you do some jewish vampire shit to a ugandan. Good luck fuming with no universals because you gave them up to chriggers and your own race thinks you're a serial killer.

>>41599209
Actually read your post then talk to me some more about word salad. I think its time to take your meds.

>>41599209
For future reference: this is how demons post.

Let me know when you find any values beyond your tribe little semite-lite.

Just admit you needed Christianity to get anywhere beyond the tribal African stage and now you cant hack it on your own lil guy

>tags me obsessively
>im the demon who needs meds

Dyer is that you?? Unblock me on Twitter man wtf. I just made a joke.

>>41599310
Everyone point and laugh at the demonic schizo having a meltdown because race got mentioned one time.

>he's hallucinating his entire race with him when there's 12 people on this board
>social shame like a socialist
>still no values beyond race
Thanks for confirming.

Well, it sure intimidated you into becoming a race marxist so I guess it will work now. Right? After all. Nothing but social opinion and the 'people' exists.

At least you are a proper spiritual semite calling anything that doesn't kneel to your chosen race demonic and being a race marxist etc

>>41599380
Take your meds brown faggot. Not even worth responding to all that strawman nonsense.

>>41599310
>demons are about as smart as your local drunk boomer
the prince of darkness is not sending his best lol

>>41582580
This thread isn't even thinly vieled, it's just blatant advertising.

Why not try reddit?

I hate namefag celebrity threads. If you have something to say, post is anonymously and the other anonymous members of our community will determine based off the quality of your words whether or not your idea has merit.

>writer for Sam hyde
>sam hyde just rips off /pol/ topics, sometimes word for word

So basically you're a lurking faggot who can't even form your own opinions timely enough to handle security matters. Okay. Definitely buy an ad.

>>41600419
He just had a jewish meltdown about mocktober 7 in another thread that got deleted. Total mask off moment lmao

>>41600451
I don't even care if they're feds. They might have good intentions deep down. But it seems like they're more interested in becoming famous than they are interested in creating interesting ideas. Seriously whoever invests in these guys please cut their wages.

I guess cutting their wages wouldn't make a difference actually, they're nepotism beneficiaries anyway. Well. At least buy an ad. It's not enough you had to be born rich, now you have to steal 4chan shitposts and then brag to your peers that you're a "writer" when the technical title should be "guy who steals shitposts". Artistically I find it revolting.

Hey Jay I never heard of you until tonight because you decided to make not one, but two threads advertising yourself as a "writer"

Could you "write" me a check for $250,000 usd for stealing over 100 of my shitposts over a few years? Or are you just going to sit here and act creative indefinitely? I don't presume you could afford this, seeing as a simple advertisement is out of the budget.

I have a fun idea: pay for an advertisement and maybe I will click your video and give you ad revenue.

I don't take spiritual advice from unaccomplished nepotism babies who can't buy an advertisement.

One of the most satanic things you can possibly do in this world is to samefag yourself into an ecelebrity position by pretending you aren't the one making the threads to advertise your content. You're not qualified to discuss the realm of spirituality.

>>41591202
>>41591256
>>41591299
>>41591332
>>41591409
>>41595152

what do you even belive anon , can I ask , would you give me that choice.

>>41582628
>The projection here is that Orthodox salvation is conditional on knowing "true facts" or dogma rather than any specific spiritual experience - simply being incorrect on whether Jesus was created or eternal or misunderstanding the Trinity means that Yahweh damns you forever.

Salvation is contingent upon being born again in the spirit and Faith that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the Logos, which fundamentally requires you understanding he is eternal.

John 3:3, 5-6 NKJV
[3] Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
[5] Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

https://bible.com/bible/114/jhn.3.3-6.NKJV

This is just simple red text. Technically none of Jesus's disciples were even saved until the Pentecost

>>41595152
Lol you're the dumbest retard. Your idea would require people not being entirely enslaved to their ego and rope a doped by other egotists who would slit your throat for a few sheckles

Archive of Jay's thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/41599726/#41599726

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>>41588227
>>41588399
its the 30 year war all over again got to love some Christian on Christian console wars

>>41601324
Im not even a christian I was just making an observation about orthodoxy and catholicism not being that different.

>>41582580
he got btfod by calvinists btw
still wont debate adam green btw
scared little bitch, orthodox christians all have herpes on their mouth because they have to kiss paintings and other icons when they pray

>>41587688
this
>>41588227
orthodog nigger

>>41582580
This butt boy is married to a tranny.

>>41600576
The last post in that mass reply you have there isn't mine. Trying to turn materialist science into some sort of religious alternative is, IMHO, stupid. It's just another secular mask for Christian apologetics.

I believe in goodness, that actions which are righteous or wrong all amount. I believe in truth, equity and love among even the least of the people. I would happily give you the choice to live your life with nobility and pride. I would not stop you even if you joined another abrahamic religion, such as Islam or Judaism. Nor would I put you to shame if you believed in those truly.

The issue however, is that the christians are a detestable people. If they were gnostics, they would be fine. But they are not. The christians have no room in the slightest for groups of others. They don't even have room for each other, the moment that they have consolidated power over a nation- they quickly set about to killing their fellow Christians over anything and everything.

Christianity of Paul is so fundamentally anti life, so anti world, that it cannot and should not be allowed to function. It is the root of every single social issue happening across the globe.

i stake my claim on that simple fact, that Christianity will kill the world if it's given the chance. To save the world, we must destroy Christianity and revive traditional paganism as the dominant force.