he can be a very contradictory chap, depending on who gets to answer
>>41686109Luciferians will tell you he's Prometheus, Jesus, whatever. He's Satan. Lucifer. He used to be known as Helel. He's a fallen angel from the rank of cherub and the ruler of hell and the earth. That's who he is, at a basic level.
>>41686169Satan = Lucifer?
>>41686202Yeah. Venus. The morning star. He isn't actually Venus this is just some stupid shit theosophists came up with but if you called him that he would answer. He knows what humans call him.
Mechanism by which God makes free will meaningful. Ultimately subservient to God, knowingly or otherwise. A fairly comical figure, properly understood.
>>41686202No. Two different boogymen.
>>41686202satan is a jewish tanakh character while lucifer is a based roman god who is older than satan. i wonder why jewish people wrote against a roman god in the new testament...
>>41686109It’s an egregore sustained by the human tendency toward rebellion/adversity. It’s the oldest, biggest, farthest-reaching, most energized collective thoughtform ever birthed in human consciousness. Its identity has shifted over ages, taking on the likeness of kings and emperors, the core impulse remains the same throughout time. It’s not primordial, it’s not immortal, it’s created and sustained by the ever-recurring human drive for self gratification at the expense of others, which pops up again and again in every culture and every era. When humanity collectively abandons that egregore, stops feeding it altogether, stops thinking and acting in ways that energize it, it’ll eventually collapse and disintegrate like all the other ancient egregores (godforms).
>>41686109Satan is the Earth and everything in it. Duh
>>41686109It's basically your digestive system. The hunger of worldly desire. The source of the little voice inside that wants you to feel small and insignificant. Satan is an archetype of human myth, an aspect of the psyche, a mask of the internal storyteller, to create mirror from that which is good so we may perceive in full. That is if you're honest with your devil and offer it a hug.
>>41686599I won’t say you’re right but that brings up a separate point worth making: learning to tame hunger through fasting is the most power tool in building self-discipline. If you can say “no” to hunger, you’ll find it much easier to say “no” to porn or drugs or booze or being generally mean/angry
>>41686608Discipline isn't saying no to things. It's having the awareness to know you're whether you do things out of compulsion or blind habit. Fasting is simply a reset of the micro biome. This really only plays into general wellness and emotional well being. None of this is to say you can't indulge in things. You're a soul in meat, it wants experience. But this energy is feral in nature so you must be conscious in your choosing of the context around such actions. Because you must also be kind to yourself and you can't do that well unless you allow yourself desire.
>>41686109The accusser, (fallen) angel, tempter; according to Old Testament.Any other information is mere speculation.
>>41686109>he can be a very contradictory chap,That's what happens when you're the father of lies
>>41686202Nope. Lucifer is a general name for mighty rulers. There were even Christians named Lucifer in the Middle Ages, and there were Lucifers in the Latin Mass who carried candles. It was used as a reference to Ha Satan once, as he has a role in accusing people of sin and tempting them to sin. Overall, though, Lucifer is different from Ha Satan.Note: As there are human Luciferians, there are also human Satans.Also, Satan (or Satans) are DEFINITELY (fallen) Angels and they DEFINITELY submit to God, as one see from Job.
>>41686643Dude they're the same guy. Everyone knows who you're referring to when you say Lucifer. And it isn't Venus.
>>41686635But in the dispelling of those lies is created meaning. The system can't function with it. If it is always day then the story gets stale. It's when night falls and the woods scream and danger lurks just beyond the glow that good or day or god has any meaning at all.
>>41686109Satan is an imaginary character in Abrahamic religions meant to discourage disobedience to their churches.
>>41686648NTA but everyone can tell (((someone))) got the memo to run 5-6 threads overnight to obfuscate anons' interaction with the topic of Lucifer. None of buy the Abrahamic shit anymore.
>>41686648>Everyone knows who you're referring to when you say Lucifer.As you know, electricity and fire are reactions and energies, not matter. Ha Satan (the accuser angel) is a Lucifer (a mighty ruler), but not all mighty rulers are Satans, nor are all Satans Lucifer.They are different categories of roles, Ha Satan having a role of Lucifer does not make all mighty rulers (such as medieval European kings) satans. Understood the logic or should I clarify more?
>>41686681>>41686648>As you know, electricity and fire are reactions and energies, not matter.but everyone thinks they are matter, exact the same way truth does not change according to majority belief.
>>41686666>t. totally not satan
>>41686693He's not wrong tho. What we call the imagination they called the underworld.
>>41686696Imagination stems from metaphysics and physics; it does not come from nowhere. There is a "why" to all things, and there are metaphysical and physical reasons why our consciousness exists. That is why advanced mechanics are suggested for how the brain works, but it would be too /sci/ for this board.Metaphysics does not work the same way physics works. For example, evil does not exist in nature, but since goodness (order) exists, evil (disorder) must also exist. This is through the metaphysical influence of humanity on nature (call this rebellion, impiety or sin)..Confucian, Hellenic, and Hebrew authors agreed on that part about the nature of evil and metaphysics.
>>41686666diabolical get, very thematic>>41686520thanks this is helpful>>41686169>>41686241>>41686598>>41686599>>41686635I find it funny how there's Satan, the supreme Lord of all Evil, infathomably powerful and mysterious, en par with God himself, and then there's folk Satan in the deep south making dealings with negro blues musicians or tempting the fate of some monk in bumfuck nowhere
>>41686681It isn't really relevant at all. Op asked who Satan is. Satan is Lucifer. Lucifer isn't his real name, neither is Satan, but that isn't relevant either. Everyone knows the individual op asked about and whom we are currently discussing.>>41686740Satan is not God's equal opposite, they aren't on par. Satan is drastically inferior to God. In fact, he is inferior to even the lowest levels of angels. The only beings in the hierarchy he isn't inferior to are animals and people. The strongest Satan had ever been was during his rebellion, and God kicked his ass out. If he and God were equal, it would have been a stalemate.
>>41686776Read less John Milton fanfic and more of the Bible. “Angel” means “messenger” and refers to anyone sent to deliver a message or perform an act on God’s behalf. In every case in Scripture where the word is used, it refers to either a living human, a glorified human, or a Christophany. There is no Biblical basis for a non-human hierarchy of primordial spirit beings between man and God.
>>41686880>there is no metaphysical representations of evil, demons, in the worlddoes evil exist>yes, it does not exist in physical sense too, but it does not exist in metaphysical sense too, it just... idk, I only know that demons do not exist
>>41686880You're a fucking idiot
>>41686897Read the Bible, silly goose. Yes, your priest was wrong. No, that doesn’t make you a bad person. >>41686895Meds & reading comprehension
>>41686912Ok, does evil exist?Do not avoid the question.
>>41686776I was just being hyperbolic to stress the difference between Lord of all Evil Satan and Old Nick Satan. I'm OP btw
He is the guy in the political comic labeled “THOSE FUCKERS” holding a big sack labeled “OUR SHIT”
>>41686915I think you’re trying to respond to someone else maybe, I never said it doesn’t
>>41686915Ontological evil doesn't't exist.
>>41686960Correct, dualism can go suck eggs. Evil is just the privation of good, and is derived from human action. Evil is not a dude with horns who lives in a cave.
>>41686109There's satan, and there's "the beast." The beast is his opposing equivalent of God's Holy Ghost. Satan is one of the fallen angels who rebelled against God. That's all there is to it. >>41686488The Jewish version is Moloch. They've been sacrificing Christian children to him in their devil-religion for 1,000+ years now.
>>41687169The “fallen angel” fanfic comes from John Milton, based on a late-medieval misreading of Isaiah 14 that retconned the whole chapter (a polemic directed at the king of Babylon) into some silly space opera. The king of Babylon was an “angel,” a living messenger of the Lord who was sent to do His bidding, placed on the throne to enact God’s judgements on earth. But in his pride, the king fell from his role, turned against God, and was punished for it. “Satan” is the spirit of iniquity that works within the hearts of men. “Lucifer” is a title referring to the king of Babylon’s former glory as an agent of God before his “fall” in turning to sin.“The Devil” as an immortal non-human person with spacial temporal existence and personal agency is extra-Biblical fan fiction pushed by entertainers and Hollywood.
>>41686740I don't find any of either in el biblio
Here's what:1. Jesus (or anyone ever) died for your sins and it's valid? Then he need not be even remembered. It works, no one is condemned ever, no religion needed. Thus, fake. 2. Satan and the angels that fell were gods from surrounding religions, this means it's stolen myth to accuse of devil worship. Thus, fake, this is a political move, not spiritual. Anything else?
I was a Satanist for years and enjoyed it immensely, really strange stuff tho, it goes deep. Ultimately just like with all religious experiences all you can really say is "Well I guess my puny human brain can't really grasp at the immensity of this". Everyone will have different stories, experiences, etc. Only left because I kept taking my pills and since I'm schizo I shouldn't do religion.Tl;DR: I dunno lol. I'm just a frog in a well that can't comprehend the immensity of heaven and earth, as they say.
>>41687349Which branch? If I may ask, lavey?
>>41687349They like to present themselves as grandiose and ancient and god-like and they try to confuse you with vague wording and the insinuation that you just can’t understand. In reality, they are energetic parasites that rely on your attention and emotion to keep themselves coherent against entropy. They are even more “mortal” than we are. Their origin is in the consciousness of living humans; they start as tulpas or egregores and they gain independent agency through continued attention and devotion until they appear to be independent personal agents. Functionally they are automatons, like an AI printed onto a subtle substrate; just degrading patterns imprinted onto our world by living human minds in intense states of emotion or trauma.
>>41687139>good>evilDig deeper. There's only action and reaction.
>>41687139No. Evil is real. Defining something as the absence of it's opposite proves dualistbideas, not the other way arround
>>41687349the realization that theres more to the world than the physical or the mind is like the most obvious thing>>41687400not the anon but laveyan "satanism" is jewish and atheistic
>>41686960Good is just the absence of evil
>>41687427There is no ontological duality, you’re describing a phenomenological duality within the created order. God has no “equal and opposite” anti-God to contend with. The allowance of evil is practical to the permitted free will in us, it is not its own substantive reality. >I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
>>41687430There can be a billion of gods you think may exist and you still be atheist. In truth you need to be a devotee not to be atheist.I'm atheist, as I hold the place of deity in my system of belief. No gods may be accepted, no matter how many or tempting
>>41687437I don't believe in books, nor do accept "proofings" without actual physical evidence, for same reason. Debating proves nothing, as we have scammers, swindlers and social engineers...
>>41686109Based on the image, a double-speaking, bullshit goblin. I bet he collects watches too
>>41687444Oh, so it’s YOU who’s responsible for all the wars and poverty and disease? You dick!!
>>41687459I'm not monist
>>41687475Then you have no ontology… just materialism with extra steps
>>41687169Moloch has nothing to do with Lucifer, who is Venus.
>>41687400independent theistic. It was very similar to LeVay but much more politically left leaning. I started with dragon rouge but I didn't like how they had hierarchies and Evola and stuff. So kinda like Temple of Set if you have heard of that.
>>41686109>Satan translated from Hebrew means “The Adversary” >Taoism teaches that if “you compete with yourself, no one can compete with you”>what/whom even is SatanEver heard the phrase “You are your own worst enemy?”
>>41688060Satan is me whenever I shclick my prick while gazing at pretty ladies on the interwebs
>>41686598MOTHER (Matrix)
>>41687139The privation theory of evil is lacking, ironically. Constraint of and distance from the divine is necessary for full individuation and that incompleteness is the raw conditions that allows for evil to exist, but evil itself is not necessary within those conditions. Augustine would have it that naturally emergent conditions like hunger, ignorance, blindness and disease are evil. That's too passive, it neglects the role of agency or consciousness and moral responsibility. Evil is *organized privation*, when agents create those conditions for themselves or others by choice. It requires participation.>>41687427>>41687434Evil has to be a co-equal force for dualism. It's not. Lack of good doesn't necessitate evil, good can exist without it, but evil cannot exist without good. Good isn't defined by evil because evil is an emergent and not a pre-existing condition, not an active principle. Evil is privation of Good, but good is not privation of evil, it is actualization of form. Good has internal structure, evil does not. Absence destroys nothing and beauty and coherence etc can't be built by merely removing something, it clears space but it does not generate form. Removing disease does not create health. That human language uses opposites for cognitive contrastive convenience says nothing about metaphysical structure. >>41687455You believe in evil with no physical evidence.
>>41689102Evil is more powerful than good. Reason me this: In a competing environment, two forces of equal measure, need a certain target, one is morally upright, the other morally bankrupt, guess which one will cheat their wat unto victory?
>>41686109>a very contradictory chap>>41689336
>>41689342>Evil is more powerful than good. It's not. It is by it's nature derivative of Good, an emergent property of the system as it approaches the bounds of coherence. It cannot be equal much less more powerful.>In a competing environment, two forces of equal measure, need a certain target, one is morally upright, the other morally bankrupt, guess which one will cheat their wat unto victory?That's a nonsense hypothetical. You assume good and evil are in competition, they are not. You assume that they are equal, they are not. Evil is an emergent property necessarily bound to and by time, it is and can only be temporary.
