https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIGr3hOWEDc

>>41710937
>certain Vedic streams
Really? Which ones? They contradict the Gita, then.
>18.20: That knowledge by which one undivided spiritual nature is seen in all living entities, though they are divided into innumerable forms, you should understand to be in the mode of goodness.
>21: That knowledge by which one sees that in every different body there is a different type of living entity you should understand to be in the mode of passion.
>22: And that knowledge by which one is attached to one kind of work as the all in all*, without knowledge of the truth, and which is very meager, is said to be in the mode of darkness.

* - this alludes to the atheistic, or more specifically those that would say things like "it's all about sex and reproduction" or "you're just a complex chemical reaction" or basically anyone pointing to material endeavor as the reason for awareness.

>>41710937
you nailed it, anon. sad part is reincarnation is little more complicated and more pitfall heavy than i initially thought. a lot of people go to "hell", a tortuous parallel dimension on earth. there are many evil spirits actively working hard to break as many souls as possible for their energy and enslavement.

>>41711082
>a tortuous parallel dimension on earth.
Hermetic and alchemical texts describe:

The astral body dissolves after death
Unless it is integrated with higher soul
If not integrated, it becomes a phantasm

These phantasms:
Retain personality traits
Mimic intelligence
Respond to emotion
But lack true consciousness
This explains séance phenomena in esoteric terms; echoes, not entities.

In Kabbalah:

Souls that cannot complete tikkun may linger
A dybbuk is a displaced soul fragment
Often tied to unresolved desire, guilt, or obsession

Buddhism is extremely explicit:

Hungry ghosts are beings who:

Are driven by craving
Cannot satisfy it
Exist in a liminal realm
Are shaped by attachment
They are not evil.
They are stuck.

From the texts’ perspective:

Some post-mortem states are incomplete
Attachment delays reintegration
What lingers is not the true soul
Liberation comes through release, not struggle

Or, stated simply:
What cannot let go, cannot move on.

>>41711156
NDEs describe the post-mortem world as more lucid than the one we're experiencing currently, but those texts more or less align with NDEs pretty well, although many of the ones I read about were less about purgatory and definitely concerning a realm of perdition. I don't think this is merely delusion, and actually a real realm.

regardless, great topic, very informative. be good everyone, dont squander your chance to get off this planet and make it a better place along the way.

>>41710937
>Plato (initiated into Egyptian mysteries)
Is that true? Is there evidence of that or is that speculation based on what he knew?
I mean it's possible and it would be interested to know. But it also lends credibility to a central truth if he came to these conclusions completely on his own through philosophy. And then there's india with buddihsm and Hinduism having similar thoughts.
I also thibk it's very possible that Jesus was initiated. Into Kaballah, or even an Egyptian mystery since that's where it said he live a portion of his early life. It's also he was part of some other Jewish mystery sect that we don't know about or he was starting up himself with John The Baptist. Baptism does represent an initiation and a cleansing.

>>41711220
>I also thibk it's very possible that Jesus was initiated.
Multiple independent traditions reference a disruptive teacher in Roman Judea

Early Christian writings are not uniform (a red flag for later consolidation)
Roman records reference followers, not doctrine
The earliest depictions of Jesus vary wildly (teacher, logos, light-being, cosmic principle)
Esoteric traditions are comfortable with this:
Mythologization does not negate historicity

It usually means control followed impact

If we strip away later theology and look only at the core sayings attributed to Jesus, we find:

Inner kingdom (“The Kingdom of God is within you”)
Rebirth through awareness (“born again”)
Parables instead of dogma
Non-attachment
Direct access to the divine
Warnings against religious authorities
Emphasis on knowing, not believing

They align strongly with:

Buddhism (non-attachment, illusion, compassion)
Taoism (non-resistance, inner alignment)
Hermeticism (gnosis, logos)
Essene mysticism
Platonism

This suggests cross-cultural transmission, not isolated revelation.

Let’s be precise.

A teacher who says:

God is within you
No priest is required
The law is internal
The poor are equal to kings
The temple is obsolete
Fear is unnecessary
Death is not ultimate

…is existentially dangerous to:

Temple hierarchies

Roman administration
Priestly intermediaries
Economic systems based on sacrifice and guilt
This is not about theology—it’s about power topology.

>>41711244
I agree with most of that. And when you bring gnostic christian beliefs into the mix, the parallels with Buddhism get even stronger.
What I don't agree with is this
>This suggests cross-cultural transmission, not isolated revelation.
That is completely possible for sure. But...if there is a central perennial truth, people would come to it independently if they are seekers and filter it through their own cultural beliefs and understanding. Suggesting that there is a perennial divine experience and a way to access it. And if they all come to a similar core conclusion that is cross cultural, that speaks to a higher unified truth. Which ai think is your whole point right?
I think were on the same wavelength.

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>>41711272
>Suggesting that there is a perennial divine experience and a way to access it.
NTA
I think there are some basic categories of experience that are then translated according to time place and circumstance, but I dont think there is one universal conception everyone arrives at.
I think some of the conceptions we have arrived at are incompatible, though still pointing to the same divine.
I attribute this to the Supreme being transcendent to what could "make sense."

>>41711290
I'm not saying all religions are true, because people can come to false conclusions, construct flase faiths, and religions and belief systems evolve over time. Like those people on that island who built that religion on US supply drops, not everything is real. Basically if somone claims to be a mystic, and they come to similar core ideas as someone else does, cross culturally, that's who you should pay attention to. What's true is selective, but there is a central truth.

>>41711272
>And if they all come to a similar core conclusion that is cross cultural, that speaks to a higher unified truth.
When you strip religions of:

Political authority
Tribal identity
Exclusive truth claims
Later dogma

What remains is a remarkably consistent core:

Ethical reciprocity (golden-rule variants)
Inner transformation over external ritual
Detachment from compulsive desire
Compassion as a stabilizing principle
Alignment with an underlying order (Tao, Logos, Dharma, Rta)

Ignorance as the root of suffering

This appears in:

Early Christianity (especially non-canonical)
Buddhism
Taoism
Stoicism
Vedanta
Hermeticism

That convergence is hard to explain without positing either:

A shared human psychological substrate, or
A shared ancient framework that diversified over time

Both can be true simultaneously.

If we take Jesus as:

A real teacher or
A composite of teachings

Or even a symbolic figure representing an initiatory state

What matters is what happened next.

Very early on, debates shifted from:

“How should one live?”
to
“Who has authority?”
“What must one believe?”
“Which version is legitimate?”

That shift correlates strongly with:

Institutionalization
Empire adoption
Legal enforcement
Boundary drawing

Once belief replaces practice, division becomes inevitable.

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>>41711315
>I'm not saying all religions are true
Nor am I.
I am saying there are incompatible conceptions that are both completely true.
People like the blind people touching an elephant, or that graphic of the object with lights shining on it.
I prefer pic related as the metaphor.
Both viewers are looking at the "real image".
both have all the info, no misconception.
One says it is a young woman, and they are right.
One says it is an old woman, and they are right.
I know you want to say "but there is only one image", and thjat's fine.
My point is down here, there will be conceptions that will NEVER say the same thing.
Neither are wrong, even as they say the other is wrong.
No matter how long they develop or how much they squint.
And that's fine.
they are both right, because the real Supreme - not the paltry metaphor image - is not "one thing" or limited in any such way.

>>41711320
>Very early on, debates shifted from:
>“How should one live?”
>to
>“Who has authority?”
>“What must one believe?”
>“Which version is legitimate?”
>That shift correlates strongly with:
>Institutionalization
>Empire adoption
>Legal enforcement
>Boundary drawing
>Once belief replaces practice, division becomes inevitable.
This aligns with well-established cognitive dynamics:

Humans bond more strongly over shared enemies than shared values

Abstract principles unite; concrete dogmas divide

Identity hardens around specifics, not universals

So if a universal framework exists, the most effective way to neutralize it is not to destroy it; but to multiply versions of it.

Not chaos as destruction; but chaos as noise.

>>41711320
This is what makes the new testament and non canon writings of Christianity so interesting because we can observe that entire process happening in real time and in a relatively short amount of time. All written down within a generation of the teacher. Most religions have an oral tradition, or hundreds of years between the stages of their evolution. Within 400 years Christianity goes from not existing to being the holy roman empire.
All you have to do is take off the "this is a holy book" lense and view it through a historical lense, and that's what the new testament is, that exact story you described being told. From the progression of the gospels and mythology evolving, where there's not even a resurrection in the original version, to John where Jesus is declaring himself God. Then Paul turning it into a religion and working out the dogma.

>>41711315
All religions are true in the sense that all religions are built on the same magical foundations. But they also pursue different goals, may be incomplete or corrupted.