>read into different kinds of spirituality and conspiracy theory>one common overlap is the idea that eating meat is bad for you spiritually, and also bad karmaOkay, I get where this train of thought comes from, but the alternative is plant life, which is still life. Isn’t it simply arrogant to conclude that everything’s all good if we just kill plants instead? We barely have a tenuous grasp of how our own consciousness works, if even one at all. How are we supposed to know whether or not plants experience the universe, at the very least in their own way? This conundrum has plagued my spiritual development for over a decade now, at a certain point I felt I was forced to give up and just accept that maybe there really is no difference, and to just eat meat as I please. I’ve found recently, however, that this reasoning is starting to fail me these days, I don’t know if I can maintain it. But all that said, I still cannot manage to reconcile the notion that there is no truly benevolent way of living. To live, by nature, is to kill; there is no circumventing this law. How do I move past this problem towards an answer that makes sense? If you guys have struggled with this as well, I really want to know what you think as well
>>41803702In the Bible, meat wasnt eaten in the garden because meat comes from the carcass of a dead/slaughtered animal, and death didn't exist until Adam and Eve sinned. In the fallen state, since death entered the world, and man holds dominion over the rest of life on earth, animals became fine to eat.
Good question, but you already got the answer, friend.>To live, by nature for a predator, is to kill.To live, by nature for a plant, is to be killed.Consider the fruits that fall to the ground from the tree. Are those still alive? Consider the insect consuming the nectars from the flower, carrying pollen with them to the next flower. The nectar and pollen, are those alive?Consider the chili peppers, whose spice is though to be meant to be intolerable to those who aren't birds, who gnaw and peck the pepper, carrying the seeds with them to be excreted. Or the coconut, floating on the waters to be carried to another shore to start anew. Are those alive?
>>41803737nah, it's not fine just because some being says it is fine.
>>41803747You are entitled to live life according to how you want. Thats the beauty of free will. However, we will all be judged by the Lord in accordance to what He has established as right and wrong. There's no running away from this truth.
>>41803702well, plants are the best you can do.The laws of nature do not necessarily have to be 'good'.
>>41803702>To live, by nature, is to kill; there is no circumventing this law. How do I move past this problem towards an answer that makes sense?We were created a certain way. Man entered a fallen state which implies things. The only way to return is to adhere to the teachings of Christ Jesus. Simply said, yet not simply done.
>>41803702Diet is not merely nutritional; it is symbolic, psychological, and energetic. Foods that grow; fruits, vegetables, grains, fungi, carry an upward, regenerative pattern that aligns the psyche with cycles of renewal rather than predation. They emerge from light, soil, and time, reinforcing patience, continuity, and coherence in the nervous system. Consuming “things that grow” subtly trains consciousness toward restraint, observation, and clarity, because such foods are taken without the violent interruption of another creature’s life cycle. Flesh and blood, by contrast, anchor the psyche in survival consciousness: fear, aggression, urgency, and identification with the animal hierarchy. Repeated ingestion of predatory food reinforces horizontal, instinct-driven circuits and increases psychic noise, while a growth-based diet supports subtle perception, emotional regulation, and the preservation of higher-order energy. A restrained diet is not moralistic; it is psychological and spiritual hygiene, a means of keeping the subtle body free from entanglement with the instincts of the animal kingdom. You are what you eat, type thing.
>>41803742It still feels cruel in a way, we wouldn’t stand for elites coopting this logic against us to fuck us daily in the ass, is there truly no way to hold ourselves to the same standard?>>41803764>plants are the best we can doThis is assuming to kill a plant is any different than killing an animal. We only know that animals suffer and fear death because we can see outward signs. The only way we can know plants are any different is to somehow have a way to measure or verify consciousness objectively, which is just impossible right now
>>41803814but for animals you know for sure that you have to kill them.
From certain shamanistic perspectives obtaining from meat/hunting would be an arrogant attempt to remove yourself from the natural cycles. Born from the egoistic desire to be seen as something more than the other animals
>>41803862>bro thinks of himself as an animalShame on you.
>>41803737God didn't give permission to eat meat until after the flood even though the fall happened long before that.
>>41803799So I can appreciate a symbolic approach, but is the distinction not arbitrary? The point at which we take the life of an animal in their life cycle generally corresponds to those of plants (at least is my approximate understanding). Animals grow, depend on the sun and water just as much as plants, and then are “harvested”. On the other hand , if this really just boils down to some kind of psychic power that’s tied into just the symbolism of it all, then I can at least understand the reasoning
OP is going to feel guilt over nothing for the rest of his life because he's the type to worry too much about things that don't matter.
>>41803922>guilt/worryI don’t feel this way though, otherwise I would have starved by now. This is the way of the world as we know it, but I still feel my due diligence is to somehow look into the other paths>things that don't matter.How can you claim to know what does and doesn’t matter in the first place?
>>41803952>is to somehow look into the other pathsSuch as? You have to eat something for sustenance.>How can youPointless to answer because you've already shot it down.
>>41803963>Such as?The questions I’m asking are more means to an end, the end being truth. If the answer is veganism, so be it. If I’m able to conclude that the distinction between plant and animal is pointless, then it will have come after really understanding my place as a living being in this universe. But who knows? Maybe the cocksuckers that run this world really have some kind of work around or something?>you've already shot it downI didn’t, it’s a valid question. If any position is getting shot down here, I feel like it’s mine desu
It's an arbitrary distinction on a cosmic level.All things grow and change. All things that are healthy to eat are, or have been alive. Protein from meat is incredibly important to human growth and development, in fact far more than modern day propaganda will have you believe.Morality is a wonderful human invention and the fact we even hesitate or have discussions on the subject is a good one. But you should not feel guilty for eating anything unless it is in excess or to murder your own fellow, conscious human being.If you eat animals, pray they live good lives and are killed swiftly and with mercy. When eating vegetables and fruits, look for ones that haven't been as heavily tampered with using chemicals.The modern society drifts further away from morality in the impatient pursuit of profit. Money erodes ones sense of morals, leading to one terrible decision after another.
>>41803702You know 100% for sure animals suffer and have consciousness. You don't know about plants, but vegetarianism is so widespread along different traditions, from Pythagoreanism to Buddhism, that I would be inclined to see it as truthful.If you have a problem with that just follow a Jain diet, which is more extreme but adresses your worry.
>>41803814>still feels cruel in a wayWho are you, or I for that matter, to speak on what plants consider cruel?>How are we supposed to know whether or not plants experience the universe, at the very least in their own way?Indeed. Matter of perspective, and all that. The focus isn't on "plants don't suffer", but more on "let's attempt to minimize suffering, and the suffering of animals is obvious"
>>41803702>fed curated mediabelieves it
>>41804009>>41804057Given me a bit to think on, even though it’s two conflicting views. Will try to meditating on it for a bit, but I really appreciate the input guys>>41804020See, now I didn’t even know such a diet existed. It sounds really rigorous, but I’ll look into it, which makes me glad I asked these questions in the first place
>>41804231No sweat. Hope you find fulfilment.
>>41804206Interesting you posted this anon, as I had just finished reading roughly a third of the TDS posts. I was curious how his aversion to meat was echoed in other insider threads, which was what prompted me to make the thread (among other things that is). That said, if he really was legit, then Im honestly left fucking furious over the parts regarding MJ. Like, here’s what bugs me:>”oh we try to let the people progress towards love and knowledge on their own, but they totally always pick bad”>along comes a guy who, in his own words, was uniting people to care for one another at a rate that literally couldn’t be controlled>”so anyway, we decided we had to hurt him with what he loved most, and then eternally twist the fucking knife for the remainder of his days till he fucking died”>”but you guys TOTALLY need us”Doesn’t fucking sit right with me at all, I’m inclined to suspect that this dude was WAY less benevolent than he wanted us to think. Unless there was some kind of reasoning on his part that I hadn’t gotten to yet, but it’s hard to come up with an excuse that actually absolves that shit
>>41804020You know 100 percent animals can’t speak english… dr. do nothing just heard voices in his head.
>>41803702Who says that plants stop being alive when you eat them? The bioenergy of life is transferred in an unbroken loop, until it ends up as poop in the ground which feeds bacteria and fertilizes the soil so that more plants can grow. Plans and animals are in a symbiotic relationship. If all plants died the animals would consume each other until nothing was left. If all the animals died, the plants would consume all the nitrates in the soil until no plants could grow and then they would die too.The plants are going to eat you, they already eat your waste, and they will win in the end when you die.
>>41804353I see your point that the benefit is mutual, and the plants even “get theirs” in the end, but it’s hard for me to not lament that this is how it has to be. The process itself seems so gruesome and cruel as to feel almost unfair. I know that’s childish, I guess what’s truly at the heart of what I’m getting at is a crisis of faith. Though I might not know what it is, I do want to believe in a higher power. I’m leaning towards something that is infinite, and is a light that resides in all things, not just living beings, but all matter itself. I don’t know how to come to terms with the idea that an infinite, benevolent entity would create the current order of things, in lieu of a design that is inherently virtuous. Surely such a thing is within the capability of something that is infinite?
>>41803702Meat:>Someone grows 1000 plants>An animal eats the plants>They kill the animal>You eat the animal Plants:>Someone grows 1 plant>You eat the plant
>>41804400I see where you are coming from, but you are putting the cart before the horse. You want to know that its all ok before you believe in the higher power capable of making it such, rather than believing in the higher power first, and asking how is it that everything is ok.I've gotten my own sort of answers in this regard.I have something of an ability to use my own life energy to create light within my own mind, and one of the ways I can create that light is into the form of plants. Love becomes light and my love gives that light to other forms of life, and they use that life as energy from which they grow their own bodies. The consciousness isn't the body. I give the energy to the life, and the body grows, but the energy was always part of the same field of life, part of the same web. The soul is the focus of this web.In the same way, I can give my life to living beings, namely, that would be to my children. They would grow from that love and become conscious beings in their own right. But in the spiritual sense, I give my life to the spirit, and the things grown are of spirit, but perceived as body. But I am not seen, I am a source of the light, but what I give it too reflects my nature, but doesn't encapsulate my own identity.I'd imagine that for a being who gives enough of themselves to have children, they would also be giving that to the environment within which the children live. They give life to the children, but the children need food to live, and so they give life to the food animals and grow them too, living through them, sacrificing themselves to their children so that they might eat.That one way to see the sacrifice of the lamb of God. God is the life force which animates all creatures. He gives himself to his children so that they might eat and grow, and when they have grown old in their wisdom and awareness, no longer needing their own bodies to live, they give their bodies as good to other life forms.
>>41803702The point is not to try to abstain from the sin of consuming the living. It is unavoidable, so we must sin to survive. The point is to make your deeds outweigh your sins before you leave this plain. Make the most of what you eat so that others and children may eat and be merry as well. This is why gluttony and sloth part of seven deadly sins: to over eat or be lazy wastes the energy of the food.Whether you’re vegetarian or vegan, the act of eating is more than just eating. Immense work went into planting the food, caring for the crop, harvesting it, selecting it, shipping it. I believe this is why processed foods have such a negative aura: a single pack of cookies needs the coordination of hundreds, sometimes thousands of workers to even make it to your home. My point is that yes meat does require sacrifice of a sentient being, but sometimes being an unscrupulous consumer can land you in the same karmic pit. The answer is to make the most of what you eat, regardless. We live so that others may live.
>>41804276yeah I kinda agree. these insider threads are shilled here more than other stuff. the minds of the masses are the goal. the schizos who post 80% of shit on this board are the minority. the lurkers who sift through shit seem like the prime targets
