>>41843314
It sounds like you are a frog poster and cannot make up your mind about anything, so assuming this is not a larp (this is a big assumption) you need to pick one thing you want to do and then ask a small number of questions on specific points rather than a list of shopping ingredients.
At the moment the responses will be all over the place.

>>41843314
Good luck OP, I have the same questions myself. Also to the other anons on here: are there certain spirits I shouldn't invoke, such as Andras (who is said to injure the conjurer)?

>>41843314
doing this stuff barely works for me. my Christian faith blocks off alot of the demons from getting close to me. Gods protection is too strong. i wish i could talk to them easier.

>>41843808
>>41843818
Commenting here, in case you check this thread and not the other one: stop stalking me. You are commenting in every thread I comment in.

>>41843314
The most important elements here are the triangle (matrix of manifestation), the circle (matrix of sovereignty) and the sigilized intelligence you’re evoking, its sigil. Everything else is flavor, which plays a part, but not the same part or in the same way for each individual.

Make sure you understand and integrate the analogies of the triangle and the circle before using them or else they’re just a triangle and a circle and all you’re doing is arts and crafts. You can draw them on the floor or on fabric that you can fold and carry around, but if you use fabric you should retrace both with your finger or sword once they’re set up, as you need to reinforce their analogies. They should be big enough for you to stand or sit comfortably in both, even if you’re only going to enter the circle.

As for the sigil, it’s mandatory you integrate it as well before any evocation work or it will be just a doodle. Integration of analogies takes days or weeks if you’re diligent. Best way to approach any process of analogical integration in occultism is through obsession.

You’ll probably still worry about the flavor elements, but these elements are there for the sake of reinforcing integration by creating a specific atmosphere and boundaries. You only really need to pay special attention to the three main elements of the evocation, the rest you can alter if it feels right to do so.

Bump

>>41843834
im not stalking you faggot. youre not that important. im on here way too much like i said.

>>41843628
What do you mean can't make up my mind? I already have the very specific thing I want to ask to the summoned demon.
If you mean here, my questions were entirely centered on the material construction of seals, circles, and pentagrams.
As the book makes a point out of using the right materials.
>>41843839
I see, the things I read online seem to point towards this you are saying. I want to make it as close to "on the books" evocations as possible regarding the materials. I hadn't considered drawing the circle and the triangle on canvass, I might go that route. But some things I read seem to point towards the idea that the cirlce depends on the time of the ritual, is using the same circle every time viable? How do you construct the triangle and circle?
The triangle I have is one on which each side has written one of these words
>Tetragrammaton, Primeumaton, Anaphaxeton
Then the vertices contains one of the syllables of Mi CHA EL

>>41843314
I recommend you don't, you are doing the spiritual equivalent of inviting a maximum security prisoner into your room, and expect things to go right because you have a gun and he's handcuffed
You may be tricked even before doing it

>>41844731
Isn't that what the triangle is for? To get him to tell the truth?
I have already gone over my request trying to seal every possible loophole I can come up with. I went over the request until I came up with four articles which have each several subarticles, as to avoid any loopholes. And I will be refining it further over this month in preparation for it.
I know demons are not my friends, I have no intentions of being one of those people who get bothered about the rights of the demons. I want this to be as purely transactional as I can make it.
As a safeguard I have dried powdered garlic I will burn if things get too out of control, since strong foetid smells are said to be noxious to spirits. Alongside a banishing ritual of course.
That being said I would also be interested to be able to summon the demon at a later date so hopefully it goes well without antagonism.

File: 342523445524.jpg (1.76 MB, 1920x1929)

1.76 MB JPG

>>41843314

>>41843314
do whatever you want, it's not like any of that shit is real

>>41843804
don't summon andras, he will cyberbully you

>>41844833
How come there is always someone who comes to my threads and just says this? Why are you even here?

>>41844763
Strong foetid smells are noxious to weak ones, banishing rituals are for weak astral disturbance
These demons are also not one entity, they area legion of fallen spirits. If you don't have open-eyed spiritual sight (without drugs), you can pretty much be with one that will reveal your identity to the rest
And the demon may be in the triangle, but doing such a thing will attract a LOT of random spirits to watch what the hell is going on, if you do it in a place they can follow they will follow you to push you into doing more stuff they can see and wait it to go wrong

>>41844847
He’s right tho.
But as >>41843628 said why the fuck can’t you just settle on trying to summon up one thing and commit to it.

>>41844885
Isn't that what the banishing ritual for after and before the ceremony are for? To make all spirits depart the space before and after the calling of the demon?

>>41844697
A simple, clean triangle and a simple, clean circle are enough. You shouldn’t be trying to emulate the books, specially if they’re old. Those divine names, anapheneton, aphaxeton, hipeton…etc, served a purpose for occultists of that era, they should mean nothing to you. You’re free to integrate them but it’s a waste of time. True grimoires aren’t meant as manuals, they’re diaries.

As for the circle being reliant on different hours or dates, that’s a boundary. Boundaries are powerful tools in occultism, they give a form and a place to your intent, stacking boundaries is a common ritual practice. The circle is the one element you should never constrain with boundaries though, it defeats its purpose and oposses its symbolic meaning.

Look, you’re free to follow a book and copy a ritual, but if you don’t understand and integrate every single element in the ritual, it’s not going to produce any effects. Why there’s a triangle? Why there’s a circle? Why the sigil goes in the triangle? Why am i in the circle? Why am i holding a sword? Is it a sword?….etc

When you can answer all the whys regarding the ritual work you will acquire a discerning eye for what YOU need and don’t need in that ritual. Like i said before, the only mandatory elements in that evocation are the triangle, the circle and the sigil, everything else is up to you to add or subtract.

>>41844912
>But as >>41843628 said why the fuck can’t you just settle on trying to summon up one thing and commit to it.
What? But I have decided to either summon Gremory or Valac. I have given my reason as to why I'm considering Gremory. If using a sigil not engraved in the actual metal is ok I am going with Valac, since it's the demon I want to summon, and it seems safer to go with a president rather than a duke.

>>41844917
Doesn't work like that, banishing rituals are for astral things, there's spirits more attached to matter which may be in the room or attached to you without you knowing
Your own spirit may "subconsciously" consider a bad spirit a friend and let them stay, that's why I think these things should only be done by people who at least can open-eyed see spirits at will

>>41844954
Banishing rituals aren’t even necessary in western traditional evocation, the triangle and the circle cover all the bases in how they work. Banishing is only necessary when precautions haven’t been taken or after invocations.

>>41844987
The triangle and circle aren't nearly enough
The way these were done wasn't fully passed to books, there's a lot of things the person would learn before reaching the degree where they do this and that wouldn't be written down again

>>41844922
Well, my understanding is the cirlce is there to protect the goes from direct contact with the demons, as it is said that they are particularly dangerous to have direct contact with them. Stories of possession from Santeria-esque religions come to mind.
But it also seems to be a place that empowers the goes, as a sort of throne. It reminds me of an axis mundi since the goes starts by calling forth the beings related to the cardinal directions and the forces of nature.
My understanding of the triangle is that it constrains the demon aparition to a specific portion of the room. As well as allowing you to interrogate it and have it answer truthfully. Skinner mentions it is analogous to the Sea of Brass Solomon used to contain and imprison the demons.
The sigil going into the triangle. Is that correct? Skinner mentions that the sigil should rather be worn by the goes rather than it being placed on the triangle. Can you provide information on that?
As for the sword, I thought of it as an element of authority and command over the demons. It also lets you interact with the sorrounding area outside the circle without stepping outside its boundaries.
Is there anything I'm missing or I should work to educate myself better on?

>>41844995
I don’t understand what you’re implying. The analogical triangle and circle used in western evocation is a perfect configuration that only needs understanding of said analogies to work as intended. The triangle manifests and contains and the circle embodies sovereignty over the triangle and what’s inside of it. When using this traditional configuration correctly there’s no risk of something “escaping” or lingering because the person inside the circle holds total control.

The triangle and the circle being a matrix of manifestation and sovereignty respectively isn’t “lost knowledge”, it’s actually regarded as basics of evocation, it’s not like the ritual is going to produce any effects if you don’t apply these analogies correctly after all.

>>41844954
Either way, is there any reason as to why I should not do them? If I'm being honest I would prefer learning and executing them if anything goes wrong.
A priori I do not intend to use the banishing ritual on Valac, just on possible spirits that might sorround and who might interfere on the ceremony, and after it. I would rather take an additional precaution.
>>41844954
This is the very first time I hear of this idea. Can you provide further information?

>>41845039
Problem is that what's a circle in your mind is not an impenetrable circle in all planes
You need authority and force to stop someone from going inside a real circle in the physical world no? The same applies to the spiritual plane
You are basically thinking that paper handcuffs would work because they are handcuff-shaped

>>41845045
The problem is that they are not enough, I think you shouldn't do this evocation ritual at all
What you have learned is probably the solar path (high magick), but there's also the lunar considerations (like in kardecism). There's an entire society of spirits around, high magick orders didn't worry about that because they had "secret masters", already deceased enlightened people that would take care of the protection from spirits for them, not by secret tricks but by actually organizing spirits to protect around the place

>>41845018
The circle isn’t a barrier, it’s a throne, when the analogy is embodied correctly the evoked “spirit” won’t attempt against you because you will be its sovereign. The circle is basically an analogy of ineffability and the totality of the cosmos, using the circle correctly requieres you to collapse into its analogy and embody it. And since it’s a paradoxical symbol it takes time and practice to achieve that state. This is a rather pragmatic and controlled approach, but more often than not the state is achieved through obsessive ecstasy instead, that’s why divine names are often “adorning” the circle, many in the past used faith as the door to becoming one with the circle, and obsessing over those divine names led them there.

The triangle represents the two creative forces of the cosmos(+1 and -1, the two lateral sides of the triangle) emanating from a single point (0 the cusp) and being delimited in space/time (the base of the triangle). The triangle is essentially an analogical womb with the necessary substrate for anything that’s called into it to form its own “body”.

And yes, although the sword isn’t necessary it’s an analogy of will and command, also of truthfulness. But it’s more practical to use your index finger. Even if it loses the analogy of truthfulness you can still get it by wearing a lapis lazuli ring for example.

>in this thread an anon asks a ton of questions even though he can follow any number of goetian inspired books.
You will get contradictory answers here. Just pick a system and a book and follow its rituals. You can even just google one. Hell just ask AI. You are following a recipe here not doing interpretive dance.
I think come back when you get some results. Then the questions will be better.

>>41845177
That’s the opposite of how “magic” works, it’s actually closer to interpretative dance than following a recipe. Everyone interfaces with analogies differently.

>>41845089
Isn't that why you do the invocation the specific angel? As to request a specific higher authority who has control over the demon to help you command it. Valac is demon number 62 so his adversarial angel should be Yahehel.
>>41845123
I see, so the triangle is akin to the first two tiers of the tetractys? Monad and dyad?
Thank you for your response, it confirms my ideas regarding the circle as a throne that empowers the goes, as well as it being a microcosmos.

>>41845177
Well, but even recipes have slight variations depending on when they are done. It's not that mechanical, or at least that's how I cook.
I would like to follow the steps of the book I am following, The Goetia of Dr Rudd, to the best of my abilities. But the things I am asking aren't specified in the text.

>>41843314
Demons are simply dark aspect of yourself, they are Ego (alternatives) created by your mind. Once they exists has an entity inside you, you have to sacrifice your own Ego to be replaced (trough invocation) by the new ones.

Enjoy the schizo consequence of using alter Ego.

>>41844834
Ah look, it's my stalkers again, commenting on every thread I comment in.

>>41845205
Yes but you can start making up your own moves once you follow the basics. Anon needs to follow the basics and then he can spin off whatever madness he wants. You don’t make it all up from the start. What is this, the succgen thread?
>>41845304
Sure, but if it doesn’t have the basic full rituals in there then maybe start with something else. I haven’t read that one, it’s a classic I know that, but is it really a good place to start?

In all seriousness though: are there certain demons who should never be summoned?

>>41845296
You don't know if this request will be granted

>>41845533
How would you know unless you summon them?

>>41845556
Well I was hoping to attract someone who had more experience with these things. I am still a novice summoner myself and would benefit from a good teacher. I summoned Bune for gambling luck and business fortune.

>>41845584
A good teacher would have to be someone you trust, not a summon
That's like starting a prison and having your first criminal tell you how prisons work

>>41845917
Yes, it's hard for me to find a trustworthy human. I have tried Reddit with mixed results.

>>41845944
Why exactly do you want to summon things?

>>41846007
Money, love, revenge, etc.

>>41846245
You won't obtain these things by taking shortcuts in life

>>41845551
Well, that's why you are supposed to fast and do all the consecration prayers right?
I'm going to fast for three days before the rite, and I'll spend that time in seclusion and meditation. Furthermore you have the consecratio dei, and the invocation of the angels.
If it worked throughout history, why wouldn't it work for me? I'm leveraging all of the tools under my belt exactly to prevent what you are describing. I am not improvising, and no one who I have read who worked with Solomonic magic has stated what you are stating. So again I request that you provide further information on your claims.
I'm not calling bad faith, but it seems like you are moving the goalpost regarding why I should not do the evocation.

>>41847170
You are trying to mess with beings that have their own will, agenda, allies and enemies
You can't call the US airforce by making an antenna out of wood

>>41847239
How do you explain the Solomonic ceremonies then? And why so many people throughout history claim they have given results.
Again I'm asking you to back all this you are saying with something different than vague posting.

>>41847239
Most of the goetia spirits have been nice, in my experience.

>summon immortal super demon that can make you rich or destroy others and appear anywhere it wants
>somehow completely bind it to your will with dumbass symbols and hand waving
Does anyone actually believe that?

>>41849414
You can't bind them even with the silver medallion, so the best approach is always reverence and respect.

>>41849435
Why would it do anything for you?
Why would a mighty supernatural being need your reverence and respect?

>>41849445
You have to worship them genuinely before going in. That has been my experience anyway. And I don't know why, maybe they are bored of the 5D realm or something.

>>41849445
That’s not how any of this works, it’s not a fucking anime.

>>41849454
>anime out of nowhere
If I had asked you
>why when Shizuoka summons the demon-Kami who is a cute girl and does slice of life things why is that so cool senpai?
That reply might have made sense.
I’d ask you to say how it works but chances are you’ll deflect and refuse for some dumb reason.
In actuality all of this does work like that. Complex rituals to summon something and make it do stuff for you, whether by negotiation or binding. Symbols and words.
But go ahead as the resident expert and reveal the truth.

>>41849518
I’ve already given an outline of how it works and how and why the analogies or symbols are used. The occult sciences might have solid frameworks of correspondence but the praxis is always closer to art than science. And that’s due to the subjective and ineffable nature of the cosmos, which is what you’re working with.

There are no “power levels”, there’s coherence and harmonization, and there’s no negotiations or bindings, there are degrees of sovereignty and subservience. Spirits aren’t people, they function with much simpler and fundamental dynamics, which is the purpose of western evocation rituals, to control those dynamics by embodying them through symbolic correspondence. There’s no “magic” in the symbols/words either.

>>41849414
That's what I always try to explain to people
They for some reason, think demons don't have agency, and are some sort of psychological or computer effect of the universe

So here's a quick insight from an experienced summoner. The reason the Goetia is so complicated is so that you can never get it "right" enough to realize the reason it's not working is because demons aren't real. As long as you screw up or half ass at least one element of the ritual - and unless you literally skinned a lion you half-assed at least one - you can always tell yourself that's why it didn't work. So you scrimp and you save for the next evocation but that goes wrong in some other way. Rinse and repeat until you either get bored or decide to lie about it online for attention.

>>41850260
>So here's a quick insight from an experienced summoner.
Sounds like you weren't able to succeed in your evocations, why do you call yourself that?

>>41849565
Everything is wave. Want to banish a demon ? Easy use opposite or destructive interference.

>>41843314
how do you summon

>>41851356
check the Goetia of Dr Rudd

>>41849414
>>41849445
That's why the western tradition uses the abrahamic godnames as a gun to threaten them. It is likely to work but they will not be happy about it so it's better to not use them much and keep it easy, only threaten when they threat you.

>Hi, people I've never met. I've completed my cargo cult scavenger hunts. What do I do now?
Maybe just read the rest of your retarded script.
>Am I missing anything?
A miserable amount, yes. You're missing a tremendous amount.

>>41850260
I don't know, I succeeded in not only summoning but attracting them as well before I knew of their existence.

>>41853167
Why are vague posters like this?

>>41843314
You're summoning nothing, you pepe-ass bitch. You lack core ingredients that are more fundamental than the ingredients themselves. It's not as simple as following a shopping list and instructions. I love pepe, but grow deeper within yourself

>>41853458
Can you define what he is lacking, anon?

>>41853458
Well, this is why I made this post, to check whatever I am lacking. Would you mind sharing your knowledge on the missing elements?

>>41853930
When you finally do the ritual, let us know how it went OP.

Bump

>>41843314
kill yourself frog posting twitter immigrant

>>41854504
Why?

>>41853256
I'm making fun of you. You follow cook book recipes and call it "magick". Why wouldn't someone make fun of that?

>>41853458
If you were serious and you weren't just coming here to scold him in your own self interest, you'd at least tell him "Pepe" is the wrong name and Kekui is the right name.
>>41853930
You're just copying someone else's system. If you really want to get there, study Crowley intimately and realize how dumb the rest of the shit you're doing is. He supposedly leads people to the right place, but I'm not playing the same game as you, so I wouldn't know, never having needed to bother studying Crowley intimately. For what it's worth, and likely no one else will admit this to you, Crowley was the peak le Magician over the last few centuries. Few people even understand on a basic level what the guy was talking about, let alone actually doing.

>>41855202
Many people understood exactly what Crowley was doing and exactly what he was saying. He even ran classes.
You haven’t studied him so you wouldn’t know that.
The reality is he had real troubles with money over the years and was pretty much destitute in his later years.
There are two main things you will learn studying Crowley
1) he got poorer and poorer
2) his entire system was about buttsex or the way to get more buttsex
That isn’t me making stuff up. That’s the truth. Most of stuff was buttsex orientated.

>41855250
Case in point. First they FUD your understanding and then they give you red herrings about the whole system. To explain briefly, Crowley worked alongside British Intelligence. Like many Court Magicians before him, he was obviously paid for his services. Another prominent example would be John Dee if you need one.
>You haven't studied him
Much. I haven't studied him much. And, no, it was not "mostly about buttsex", you fiend.

>>41855278
>troll reply technique
You are simply scared of truth. You aren’t explaining briefly. You are writing as little as possible because you know so little beyond a tiny google search that it will disturb your poor effort at larping if you write more.
John Dee worked for Tudor monarchy and the Elizabethan spy network of the time. Not the same thing as the Crowley era. The world was very different.
Dee is a terrible example of a “magician”. Like Crowley he got poorer and poorer and in Dee’s case he got cucked hard. He didn’t even need to degrade to buttsex. His seer, Edward Kelley, managed to trick him into giving him his wife amongst other things.
Crowley’s finances are known. His increasingly poor housing condition is known. Fully documented and attested to by Crowley himself in many cases.
The issue with larping about well known subjects that are heavily documented by many reliable sources is that the larp doesn’t work.
Yes. Crowley really was about buttsex. His system was buttsex to the max. Some scat in there too.

>>41855250
I will tell you something about Crowley most people do not realize. He references all of his other books in pretty much every book he wrote, in little footnotes that say "See Liber al 1234" and thought this was a clever marketing trick, that if one were to pick up one of his books, one would be compelled to buy the whole lot. Didn't work and he died broke. I thought his 8 lectures on yoga was brilliant and could not be bothered with the rest of his bullshit.

>>41853950
I will let you guys know.
>>41854504
I have never used twitter, it seems boring and I can't even see posts there because I don't have an account
>>41855195
Well, I don't call it "magick" I always found adding a k to the end of the word a bit cringe myself. But nontheless I would call the operation I'm trying to carry out goetia.
>>41855202
>>41855250
>>41855278
>>41855318
>>41855378
If I am being honest I don't trust Crowley. He seems a product of his time. He comes across as extremely self-centered, and seems to think that being at the spotlight of something original but worse is better than to be at the periphery of something established but better. Which to me seems to be the core of his undoing.
And it also kind of feels like his Thelema maxim:
>Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Gives you a charte blanc to ignore all of Thelema.
This is part of the reason I gravitate towards older texts. They tend to be more focused on transmission than innovation, they tend to put the author or the copyist on a more background role, and they weren't intended to be produced and sold en masse for the sake of profit.

>41855318
>i-it was all buttsex
Dude, I'm familiar enough with Thelema to know about the cum cakes and the backsmacking routines. I'm aware to some extents that his system incorporated long-lost arts of endogenous synthesis of drugs. Stop fucking insulting me, you stupid nigger.
>He was poor
I never cared about Crowley's financial status, but he worked for Mi5/6 (I don't remember right now and I'm not going to go look it up like you are apparently doing because I'm not a stupid faggot - besides l enjoy these tests and it's part of why I prodded you in the first place). Claiming he was poor is frankly a bit of a reach.
>Some scat in there too.
So Crowley was basically a /b/tard before we had /b/. He definitely got into some repulsive situations, but it seems evident if you actually read the material that he was doing it on purpose. It's kind of like how anons used to post gore or scat porn to keep the normalfags away. See, Crowley was a celebrity back in the day and, like most celebrities, at one point grew annoyed with all the attention he was getting. Part of his routine involved getting people to annoy him less.
>The issue with larping about well known subjects that are heavily documented by many reliable sources is that the larp doesn’t work.
Nice try, retard.
>41855378 is evidently a troll sent here to throw all of us off the trail.

>>41855511
>Well, I don't call it "magick" I always found adding a k to the end of the word a bit cringe myself. But nontheless I would call the operation I'm trying to carry out goetia.
I'm sorry, anon, but I find muh Goetia to be sort of retarded. If I had to choose one I know who I'm going with and everything, so I'm not saying there's nothing there. But I just cannot respect you.
>If your magic doesn't involve a physiological response of some kind, it's not real magic.
I'm paraphrasing, but no one has said it better so far.
>>41855511
>If I am being honest I don't trust Crowley. He seems a product of his time.
There's literally no one "better" than Crowley. He is and was the master of the current era. I'm, again, not in any of your retarded ass clubs, so I have no need for your petty Cargo Cults. But they tell me he was the quintessential Master and there aren't really comparisons.
>Do what thou wilt
It's evident you don't understand what Crowley was saying. His system's form of Dharma is True Will and this True Will is precisely what he was speaking to in the famous quote. Essentially, he's saying "perform your True Will is our only and most important Law".
>older texts are better
True. Very true, in fact. The problem with older material is a departure of relatable connotations. Crowley's system isn't exactly easier for most laymen to grasp, I'll admit, but, again, they all insist he's the pinnacle of modern "Magic(k)".

>>41855511
OK anon good luck and post results.

>>41855583
>I'm sorry, anon, but I find muh Goetia to be sort of retarded. If I had to choose one I know who I'm going with and everything, so I'm not saying there's nothing there. But I just cannot respect you.
>There's literally no one "better" than Crowley. He is and was the master of the current era. I'm, again, not in any of your retarded ass clubs, so I have no need for your petty Cargo Cults. But they tell me he was the quintessential Master and there aren't really comparisons.
>I'll admit, but, again, they all insist he's the pinnacle of modern "Magic(k)".
???
I have no idea what you are talking about or who "they" is. You keep saying "cargo cults" without any explanation whatsoever.
>It's evident you don't understand what Crowley was saying. His system's form of Dharma is True Will and this True Will is precisely what he was speaking to in the famous quote. Essentially, he's saying "perform your True Will is our only and most important Law".
I know what true will is, anon. And it is my true will to ignore Thelema.
You make a whole lot of assumptions about me and are downright rude. If you aren't going to help with the evocation please leave my thread. If you want to talk about Crowley, do so in the context of evocations, if not just go make your own Crowley thread where you can discuss every aspect of his life you want.

>>41855569
He was poor.
He loved butt sex.
Just give up. No one likes you.

>>41856024
What does Anton LaVey or Aleister Crowley have to do with the Ars Goetia, anon? The Ars Goetia is a medieval book that predates both of them.

>>41855949
To clue you in, I was suggesting that, while I find your approach repulsive, I admire your attempts so I'm here to explain some things for you if you're willing to give my explanations a chance. If you choose to, you might benefit a bit.
The issue is faggots like the one in question follow me around and FUD what I'm saying because they're stupid niggers. Apparently Crowley has something to do with Goetia (not that I care enough to understand more about their intersections), so I'm throwing you a bone here. I wouldn't really expect you to understand or anything I guess.
The biggest insight I offered you was referencing you to my paraphrasing about "Magic not about physiological responses not qualifying". Otherwise, I maintain you're at best participating in a cargo cult.
If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm not going to keep bothering you since you're at least trying something, but I am here to help once you realize what you're doing is retarded and all you're doing is, at best, copying someone else's homework. If you want to get to the end as fast as you can, I'm told to read Liber Aleph. I read excerpts from Book of The Law myself and got most of what I think I need (for now), but this is what I'm told.
If you don't care, don't understand, or have been corrupted by people lying to you about my intentions (even tacitly), that's your problem. But I am trying to offer you what I can. Just keep in mind there are nefarious actors among us.

>>41857534
Crowley doesn't but his Bornless Ritual is used by thelemists as a preliminary invocation before goetic evocation. And the godnames of thelema can be used in the triangle and circle instead of anafaxeton etc.

>>41844954
How can I open my spiritual sight?

>>41857573
Ah perfect, exactly what I was hoping for.
Crowely famously described the process of magic as "me doing stuff and then things happen so I did those things to make them happen".
I just made you respond to me or something and that's a magic lol.

See? That's how your "magic" works and it's repulsive so I'm here to make fun of you for it.

What does Crowley have to do with goetia????

>>41857534
>>41857919
This guy is a pseud

>>41858849
I think a lot of people's first contact with the Ars Goetia was through Crowley's edition, if we can call it his.

>>41858907
Ah okay, because I was wondering what that Christian anon's obsession with Crowley's butthole was.

>>41858907
>>41857534
>If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm not going to keep bothering you since you're at least trying something, but I am here to help once you realize what you're doing is retarded and all you're doing is, at best, copying someone else's homework.
Literally what Crowley did, he stole Mathers translation of the Goetia and made some gay additions to it which are nothing of value.
You know what the halmark that you are a pseud is? You scold others but are heavily vague on what the actual path would be.

>>41859457
I.. don't know why you're tagging me along with some other dude you're arguing with. I was just trying to explain why some people would bring up Crowley in a discussion about the Ars Goetia, whether Skinner's Rudd or Peterson's Lemegeton. If you're expecting me to feed you, may you have better luck with someone else. My wheelhouse is the Elucidarium aka Heptameron. The Ars Goetia may take a lot from the Heptameron, but they're more appropriately treated as their own separate things. So, good luck. Go yell at the other guy.

>>41859512
I am genuinely sorry you feel I yelled at you, and I just want to contribute to this thread.
Is there anything you would suggest for the evocation of demons? Actually do you agree with OP's materials?

>>41859558
>I am genuinely sorry [ you feel ] I yelled at you
lmao nice gaslighting dude
for sure the oldhead's gonna feel like sharing now

>>41859578
I am honest, you don't have to share if you don't want to.

>>41859601
the fuck am i gonna share that you'd like to know?
im into demonolatry. your sort spits on my shit.

>>41859620
Well, I will admit I am not into worshiping demons at all, since I see them as beings to be controlled and put to the service of mankind. But If you are into demonolatry you must at least know how to summon them, right?
Do you think OP is on a futile path or does he legit have high chances of success?

>>41859660
if you know what demonolatry means, 'summon' ain't the right word
some of the galaxybrains on my side of the fence like to think of it as ***theurgy***
they'll regurgitate shit like "demons in christian frameworks are really old gods"
trust me. our methods and yours ain't the same
honestly though, people overthink things. follow the rubric to whatever you can afford
adjust as you move forward until something clicks. doing is better than wringing hands.

>>41859706
>demons in christian frameworks are really old gods
Ah the SMT approach.
If I am honest I don't buy this. There's records of prechristian times describing lower daimons that are not Gods whatsoever. Porphiry mentions them in his treaty on vegetarianism, as does Iamblichus on his book on the mysteries.
I would guess your methods are more akin to umbanda

>>41859806
and if i'm honest, i don't care what you believe. i don't even care what my people believe
our methods aren't even a "grimorium verum ported into quimbanda" type thing
it's more like limp wristed tantric mantra shit with candles, maybe incense and offering your own blood
and the same galaxybrains will make reference to mesoamerican auto-sacrifice and blood-letting
i don't care about any of that pseud crap. all i care about is that i won 200 grand in a lottery
full manifestation or no, magic circle or no, all i care about is an actual result

>>41859877
Oh, S Connolly "enn-chants" type shi? Gratz on the lottery though.

>>41859877
What was your ritual, anon? My friend won $1,500 in the slots.

>>41859877
>i don't care about any of that pseud crap. all i care about is that i won 200 grand in a lottery
True, this is an amazing result

>>41859906
lmao it was exactly that gay shit bro
i asked around what the ennchants mean
some shit about "it was channelled" fucking lol

>>41859908
bare bones edgy witchtok shit man
put the sigil on a table, light an appropriate color candle, burn approriate incense yada yada
some might time it with planetary day/hour and moon phase or whatever the fuckshitdonkeyfuck
and - if you really wanna - only if you really wanna - prick your finger with a diabetic lance and offer some blood on the sigil
again, i don't care what anybody believes or doesn't believe. all i'm saying is this is what i did. make of it as you like

>>41859916
i still half can't fucking believe it myself
been real careful with spending though

>>41859877
I have a question I a mean no offense, why did you chose worshipping demons rather than the traditional control over them?

>>41859994
Thanks, anon.

>>41860002
what makes you think i'm actually worshipping a demon instead of offering it shit for other shit in exchange?
what makes you think a traditional grimoire magician is actually controlling anything instead of the demon just biding his time?
do either of us really know for sure if we're interacting with a demon instead of some random transient spirit?
if some spirit arrives at your circle and you "ascertain its true identity", how do you know you're not being confidence tricked by a slick spook?
did you know that some grimoire magicians are non-christians? why should the godnames have any efficacy when used by a non-believer?
and what about actual christians (well maybe not such true christians if they practice magic) who use these godnames and fail to elicit any response?
i'm throwing back a lot of questions in response to your one, i know
but i'm trying to make you see if maybe things aren't as cut and dry as you think, or even i think

>>41860083
>what makes you think i'm actually worshipping a demon instead of offering it shit for other shit in exchange?
You said demonolatry which literally means worhip of demons.
>what makes you think a traditional grimoire magician is actually controlling anything instead of the demon just biding his time?
fiftty fifty on this, the pact seems to be mutually beneficial so the demons seem to gain something out of helping humans.
>do either of us really know for sure if we're interacting with a demon instead of some random transient spirit?
There's procedures to supposedly help with that, but if we were to go down the rabbithole we could arrive at some extreme forms of skepticism.
>if some spirit arrives at your circle and you "ascertain its true identity", how do you know you're not being confidence tricked by a slick spook?
I fall back on thousands of years of traditions. There must be something there for people to emply time writing and passing down that knowledge, at the very least it works.
>did you know that some grimoire magicians are non-christians? why should the godnames have any efficacy when used by a non-believer?
Names have intrinsic power regardless of my belief. In fact I consider my own beliefs to be unimportant and overrated. I think people in the West care way too much about beliving correctly. The sun will rise regardless of wether I believe in it or not.
>and what about actual christians (well maybe not such true christians if they practice magic) who use these godnames and fail to elicit any response?
Couldn't tell you.

>>41860083
>why should the godnames have any efficacy when used by a non-believer?
>and what about actual christians who use these godnames and fail to elicit any response?
Or atheists even. Or non-materialist atheists if we want to nitpick. Grimoire magic is quite a hodgepodge. We have the aspects that evolved out of Christian exorcism and aspects that lean toward paganistic offerings. Your agnosticism with respect to the identity of spirits is a salient point.

>>41860140
>demonolatry
you're stuck on a word, i live in practice. i promise you i don't worship clauneck
so you downgraded your "control over the demon" to a "mutually beneficial pact"
i see no reason why mine isn't a "mutually beneficial pact" just achieved by simpler protocols
and it's not like i've unwittingly invited poltergeist phenomena into my home or some shit

>I fall back on thousands of years of traditions
>There's procedures to supposedly help with that
you really can't imagine spirits being able to lie successfully for "thousands of years"

>Names have intrinsic power
this is a belief, believe it or not
that the sun will rise is not something either of us can argue against
that godnames actually have power or influence over spirits is not something as irrefutable as the sun

look, i don't like armchair speculations, and i don't care what the actual metaphysical framework is behind the curtain
if i ask for money or career advancement and i don't get it, i move on
i tried the gv and some shadow person showed up but i got nothing, so i found another way that worked
was it clauneck? who knows, i for sure don't care

>>41856891
Why don’t you ask the poster that started talking about Crowley? Go back through the conversation.

>>41855583
Crowley was all over the place, he focused on theoretical analogical systems and armchaired his way into celebrity status thanks to his butt friends and to being a nepo influencer. His whole bibliography is a huge schizo post with syncretic occult (for the most part) common knowledge sprinkled here and there.

Bardon did a way better job at communicating a consistent, functional praxis. There’s really no need for most of Crowley’s psychobabble, most of it is peacocking, circlejerking and overengeenering of analogical systems. He was the Neil Degrasse Tyson of occultism and every time i see someone raving about him i already know exactly how their paradigm looks like and how full of deluded shit they are.

Crowley’s legacy is an army of histrionic midwits who mistake vocabulary density for attainment.

>>41859994
Which entity did you appeal to for your lottery win? Did you have to offer anything in return besides the sigil, candle, incense, and a drop of blood?

>>41859457
>>41858907
>>41858849
This is embarrassing. The genre of "Magick" in question is Ceremonial Magic(k), brainlets. The reason I'm persistently rejecting it despite framing Crowley (appropriately, by my measure, especially after this conversation) is because I've been taught that he's said Master, but I have no use for his system. By all means, those of you fiddling around with your cook book approach to le Magic(k) should take it as far as you can. I don't care to and won't be joining you because I have other shit to do (that's apparently far more potent and fluid, hence me actually doing it all the time and you retards just asking each other about how to do the systems you copy from someone else).
If you want to learn how Goetic systems intersect with Crowley, be my guest. That's right, I'm not going to learn all your jargon and execute it perfectly because I don't want to or have any use for it anymore. I will be kind and offer you what I was taught though.
Quit sperging, normalfags. If you don't want my help, ignore me. If you're going to follow me around and nip at my heels, I'm going to step on you like the bugs you are.

>>41859877
And this, everyone is how you know "they're all Cargo Cults" is the most fitting possible reduction to this bullshit ruse they've all given you.
Just like the guy said, "if your magic does not include a physiological effect of some kind, you're not doing 'magic'".
By all means, enjoy your cargo cults, normalfags.

>>41860596
Crowley's main pull was his barrier to entry. It's like how the more authentic anons among us conduct themselves in these circles and it's why all of the le occultists throughout the last couple centuries commonly used pen names.
>Bardon
I take it you're unfamiliar with the deeply sardonic tone they treat Bardon with.
>Crowley was just, like, syncretising
It's hilarious that you brainlets keep saying this stupid shit. If you can't translate your system to someone else's and back, you can't reverse-engineer their methods. This means gathering intelligence is limited, deploying counters isn't as easy (because you have to design them first) and plenty more (but I'm not about to help you that much more).
The reason Syncretism is so effective is because having this model is like building a Rosetta Stone of Languages (they're all Languages we're learning, in case you haven't figured that out yet). Being able to translate back and forth means you have a wider view of what everyone else is doing. If you're not taking all information in you can manage and then sorting it through a veracity filter you prove yourself, what you're doing is flawed and you're already very far behind.

This suggestion that Crowley did nothing because he scared of normalniggers with scat porn is hilarious. It's like all of you idiots have no idea what /b/ was really up to.
This is why I'm not joining any of your dumb ass systems, you faggots.

>g-guys, I won $200,000 because I did le magick stuff
Oh boy. This is like that time one of you retards gave the monkey the AK-47.
Sometimes I think you guys deserve this.
Enjoy your "money", retard.

>>41850945
>Sounds like you weren't able to succeed in your evocations, why do you call yourself that?
You can't "succeed" in any evocation because demons aren't real. If you want to prove me wrong, all you need to do is spirit-skype my old buddy Orobas, give him a mesage, and tell him to give to me. I promise you as soon as you actually 'succeed' instead of making excuses I'll be your biggest fan.
>I don't know, I succeeded in not only summoning but attracting them as well before I knew of their existence.
I ran a Goetic cult for a while and you guys were a dime a dozen. For ever serious student I got there were ten chuuni middle schoolers claiming Valefor was their BFF and Gremory sucked their cock. Because this little psychodrama existed entirely in their head, the rest of us were at best props, we ended up doing dozens of evocations that didn't matter even in the fake psychological way. Here's a hint to future cult leaders - if someone brags about "attracting the attention" of spirits or deities, shitcan them ASAP.

>>41860917
>you suck
>you don’t understand magic like me
>I’m too cool for you
Sounds good so you’ll stop posting now right?

>>41860993
>ugh why are you posting here
Possibly because people keep replying to my posts and partly because I desire to come here and post and you can't stop me.
By all means, use your magic to stop me and I'll leave forever, right? Too bad you can't because you wouldn't even know where to begin.
Funny story though: someone like me would know exactly what to do.

>>41861061
>Funny story though: someone like me would know exactly what to do.
Okay then, let's put you to the test. Use your magic to stop me from posting. I'm looking forward to your excuses.

>>41860917
You’ve misconstrued every point you’ve addressed in my message. A disingenuous attention whore like you always shows up in these type of threads to farm yous without really saying much of anything.

I’ve explained point by point why Crowley is a shitty vehicle into genuine occult practices, his major skill was masturbation, which seems to be yours as well, so i take it that’s why you like him.

It’s already been addressed how most of the analogical noise in common occult models isn’t really necessary for the practice, so i don’t know why you’re waltzing up in here acting like you’re “in the know” for brushing aside said common models.
> I take it you're unfamiliar with the deeply sardonic tone they treat Bardon with.
>they
Who? And why should i care?

Bardon not only creates a praxis with just the needed practical analogies and a clear understanding of how they operate, he also introduces a proprioceptive system, which is one of the elements in occultism you seem to consider important. Which it is, and from the western authors that made it to mainstream territory he’s the only one to introduce it in his praxis and dedicate chapters to the cultivation of the “fluids” in a very literal and physiologocal way.

>>41843314
you always do divination before magic ritual.
so get yourself some tarot, or other method to make up your mind.

>>41861100
What? I'm not the one here asking others for help. I came here to give you guys a hand where and how I please.
>>41861364
>his major skill was masturbation, which seems to be yours as well, so i take it that’s why you like him.
What a funny thing to say. I've said a lot more about Crowley's system in this thread any anyone else so far. By all means, tell me all about how dumb I am. I'd love to hear more about what I'd missed and why they insisted so hard he was the "Master".
>i don’t know why you’re waltzing up in here acting like you’re “in the know” for brushing aside said common models.
Because I want to and because you can't stop me.
>Who? And why should i care?
People who have achieved a me feeling dumb scenario. If you make me feel dumb, I may integrate what you offer me. I probably won't though, because you're dumber than I am and you can't say something smart. How do I know? Because you haven't yet.
>b-but Bardon does
I'm not sure why you're defending him. I don't hate what he does or anything and I frankly do not care.
>proprioceptive system, which is one of the elements in occultism you seem to consider important
Do I now? How did you come to that conclusion? It doesn't seem like you're using this word correctly.
>cultivation of the fluids
Sure, I suppose this is one way you can le do magic, but I'm not sure you understand the extent of the overlap between muh occult stuff and endocrinology yet. Besides, this is only one area of relevance. By all means, start ranting about your precious semen retention if you'd like, but the reference was about a bit more than playing with yourself and cumming on your funny pictures and the other mundane shit you guys do.
Oh and, by the way, since you didn't realize what's happening, you made this very easy on me. Go ahead and reread our interaction. You'll probably laugh at yourself.
I swear, it's like you guys want me to just take all your shit.

>>41860927
>been real careful with spending though
He got lucky, unlike the rest of us. My friend only won $1,500.

>>41861664
What an insufferable faggot kek. Bardon’s fluids are the electric and magnetic fluid, they’re not Bardon’s but he “brought them back”, and they’re most definitely not cum adjacent or literal fluids, hence the use of quotations. They’re parallel to yang qi and yin qi in taoist cultivation frameworks.

I don’t know why you said i’d laugh, i actually find our few interactions quite sad and painful. You should school me next, i’m bored of reading the filler in your messages.

>>41861365
I do have a tarot deck, Marseille. Any recommended spreads? How should I use divination in this case?

>>41861664
>What? I'm not the one here asking others for help. I came here to give you guys a hand where and how I please.
So give me a hand and prove you're not full of shit. Go on. I dare you.

Bump

>>41860896
If you're so great, offer us what you were taught then.

File: 13ba06c549f40902857b61d10(...).jpg (18 KB, 225x225)

18 KB JPG

>>41861673
What? No. Getting money out of this is fucking easy, dude. If you're doing what I'm doing, people are calling you a fucking Wizard and asking you nonchalantly to please kindly stop fucking doing that because it's freaking everyone out.
Acquiring resources isn't the win condition, numb nuts. The win condition is the other aspects of yourself experiencing reduced suffering and a rebirth of older Saturnian themes instead of the bullshit scenario where none of us can enjoy this experience because Saturn thinks we're all trying to fuck with him.
Spoiler: we are since you idiots keep calling him your mortal enemy.
>>41861762
Just as I figured, you're not even sure what the hell I'm talking about.
Go on, keep pretending we're playing the same game.
>>41862694
I'm really stupid and I'm probably retarded and stuff. Everything I say is a joke. I made it up or something.
>>41863764
The routine is telling you things I'm not supposed to while letting the LARPers keep thinking I'm playing along. In reality, we're playing a game where I keep stepping on squares I know I'm not supposed to and all they can do is grit their teeth and say, "haha I really wish you wouldn't do that but it's not a big deal lol... please don't do it though haha".
Some of you will realize what's happening one day. Once you do, you'll find it just as funny as I do.

>>41865630
This is why I just ask questions rather than argue. Or I make statements which always start with "I think" Or "I believe" because I know that it's just like, my opinion, man. Based on my own life experiences which are different than yours. Arguing and insulting just shuts down the exchange of information, and there's no fun in that for me.

>>41865630
Instead of making frivolous boasts, why not prove your greatness and enlighten us then?

File: DrLexus.jpg (55 KB, 640x473)

55 KB JPG

>>41865751
There's that fag talk we talked about.

>>41865770
If you can't back up your claims, you are full of shit.

>>41865770
Not that anon, anon. Just annoyed with your bullshit

>>41865751
Anon is right. All you have is Idiocracy-tier "I don't get it. so you're a faggot lol". Since none of you can progress past this point, the only role I'm going to play until one of you retards makes me feel dumb is the role where I dangle shit in front of you and make you follow me around until I lead you to where you're supposed to go. If you can't figure out the rest, that's your problem.
They're lying to you. I'm helping you by pointing out this absurdity, offering you clues wherever you're able to notice them and they can't do much about it by desperately convince you that I'm not doing anything of value. It's a very fun game we've all been playing for years now and few of you (if any) seem to have caught on.
You can easily do this too and I invite you to play the very same game. Once a certain threshold of us plays the game like this, we all win a prize.

>>41865872
One thing Crowley certainly got right was when he designed the structure of the A:.A:. so that one only interacted with their mentor. This was because every other occult lodge he belonged to had descended into a bunch of petty bickering that amounted to "My enlightenment is more enlightened than your enlightenment", basically a spiritual dick measuring contest. Just like here. It's just a bunch of noise that makes communicating information impossible.

What does all this vagueposting and Crowley bullshit have to do with the OP?

>>41865884
>>41865891
The shit you guys are using and calling "Ceremonial Magick" has been deprecated for centuries. They iterated a lot of it with Tantric vibes. If you knew much about le Planetary Magic and muh Music of the Spheres and muh Yogas, you'd get a lot out of a conversation like this, but I'm suspecting most of you are clueless as a result of the thread so far, so this devolved into me trolling the faggots that would prefer you don't have a similar capacity to le do muh magic.
The overall effort is to better frame what "Magic" is. Following someone's cook book recipe for their practice is beneath you and frankly a waste of your time. It's better to assume the Aquarian energy, take an individualistic approach and drop what isn't working anymore. We all can tell this shit isn't working because newfags have to keep coming here and asking, in public, "why doesn't my magic work, everyone?"
That's because you're not doing "doing magic", you're just parroting someone's routine that, for them, constituted "magic" and now you look like a begging jackass surrounded by people slightly more informed than you at best. It's repugnant. Someone should help you. Here we are.

>>41865946
I do not practice "Ceremonial Magick" or yoga or anything else for that matter. I'm in this thread because i am interested in the concept of conatacting non human intelligences, if they exist. You assume an awful lot. i only mentioned Crowley's A:.A:. structure as an example of an attempt to circumvent human nature that tends to lead to bickering and conflict as people try to assert themselves in any human hierarchy. You're not sharing anything useful, Anon. You are just trying to prove yourself superior.

>>41865946
>Following someone's cook book recipe for their practice is beneath you and frankly a waste of your time. It's better to assume the Aquarian energy, take an individualistic approach and drop what isn't working anymore.
>le based new age approach!
Also you assume a ton of bs about us, like not knowing about philosophy. In fact your egocentric obsession with being an unique individual tells me that you are the one who should sit down and read ancient philosophy...

File: Yahehel Seal.png (155 KB, 1000x497)

155 KB PNG

>>41865891
OP here, let's get this thread back on track.
I'm going to get a laser engraved medal with the seals of Valac on one side and the seal of Yahehel on the other. I have decided to go with stainless steel, since it's the most available option.
As for the circle and triangle, I went arround town looking for canvas to paint my circle and triangle on but had no luck, so I think I am going with the chalk option.
The necessary incenses have been collected. I have seen people claim that the sword should be consecrated with martian incenses, so I am going with dragon's blood(I have heard some people claim tobacco is good too, and I have organic tobacco, but to me tobacco was always more of a mercurial plant). To consecrate the pentagram and hexagram frankincense and myrrh should be good, and while I am at it I will also consecrate the chalk.
I'm also considering reinforcing the circle with salt, it's innexpensive so I might as well.

>>41866178
Steel is like 80% iron, though, so I really hope this doesn't get on the way of the ritual

>>41843314
Instead...try contacting
Iahhel // Valac
Poiel // Gregory

>>41865770
It's fucking sad that
>If you claim to be a wizard, prove it
is "fag talk" on this board and
>I'm totally.a wizard guys, just trust me lol
Is not.

>>41866062
>I'm in this thread because i am interested in the concept of conatacting non human intelligences, if they exist.
They exist in essentially all systems. Goetia doesn't have any trademark on Theurgy. That's the point.
>>41866166
>be more humble
Perfect. Let's do that. Say something smart.
>>41866178
I always thought Marbas was cool. Enjoy your pretty pictures and your retrospective confirmation bias (where you talk yourself into having had an experience afterward).
It's been 400 years, dude. Besides, you're not going to want to do all these follow the recipe systems for much longer because of Aquarius anyway. Be my guest though.
You're welcome for the warning(s), everyone. I'll wait around for a while in case you remember to thank me.

>>41866261
That's what I am trying to do, I have decided on Valac over Gremory for now.
>>41866262
Please ignore him, he hasn't given any information other than saying "this is beneath me lol" instead of actually sharing concrete knowledge on the topic. Don't feed the trolls.

>>41866262
Based larp denier.
>>41866178
Based medal acquiring OP.

>>41866178
Excellent, tell us your results soon OP.

>>41866262
Oh, I was the questioner he was responding to, he has done even more evasive non-answering, so I have already dismissed him as a troll or a crazy person.

>>41866292
Too bad that was an entirely different anon making fun of you for having no idea what's being said. Yes, it sure does feel like I'm Not Sure a lot.
Goetic daemons are just another thoughtform you can interact with. In a more refined metaphysical system, you can interact with a lot more than just muh daemons.
Ignore the faggots using tripcodes. Ignore the faggots trying to get you to follow cook book recipes. If you want the most effective form of Theurgy, you're looking for ancestral ties and then you want to form a bond with the deity close to your family's Tree followed by accessing the "family egregore" for some opportunistic phrasing. How you do these things is up to you, I'm just showing you what the end result looks like. But by all means, enjoy your cook books.

>>41843314
this demon about to make you his daddy rip

>>41866262
I was referring to people choosing to argue rather than share. Not the anon claiming secret knowledge.

>>41867918
Now that's a decent post. I am absolutely clueless as to how to find a deity close to my family tree, it's regular everyday Christians as far back as I can trace. Any suggestions? Like perhaps deities associated with my ethnicty before the advent of Christianity?

>>41868310
It's bad advice, anon. Following that Crowley/Jungian approach of daimones being thoughtforms is going to harm you.
There's no "deity close to your family tree". If you read ancient authors, who actually practice theurgy, they never talk on these terms.
Either way this is off-topic since this is a thread about goetia, not theurgy.

>>41868359
This.