>Noo don't try to escape

Ok reptilian

>>41868814
Don't see how this has to do with the post.

>>41868799
Makes sense.

>>41868814
schizo typing out what his voices tell him

>>41868827
It's telling you this false material prison realm is the best lol are you retarded

>>41868861
archon poster

>>41868799
read up n00bs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%E2%80%93bondsman_dialectic

>In Hegel’s master-slave dialectic, the bondsman (slave) becomes freer than the master because, through labor and the fear of death, the bondsman develops self-consciousness and mastery over the material world, while the master becomes dependent on the bondsman's work. The bondsman transforms nature, realizing their own agency, whereas the master becomes stagnant, having their freedom mediated by another.

>>41868875
>abrahamic retard glorifying slavery
no surprise

>>41868869
>"everyone is evil but me, I have agency I swear, who cares if I'm deceived by my own paranoid assumptions!"
>"OP is delineating the realms and telling you that you have free-will, that means he is suggesting this world is practically heaven! lies lies lies! i know the truth!"

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>41868901
>arguing with himself
take meds

>>41868799
Not the case. Yes, when you have a broader perspective, you are just observing. You haven't learned to exert your own metaphysical will yet. You are 'observing' what already exists, but not actively creating that which you want to exist and experience for yourself. There is a difference between these two, and the ability to do the latter is a skill you develop over time and much experience. Arguably, its the reason we need so many physical incarnations, so that we can learn how to apply our metaphysical will in a direct and real physical way, and as we develop that skill here as sentient humans, we also develop that skill in a metaphysical sense as well.
Its the difference between watching a movie, and writing the movie. You are not recognizing your own part in the events you witness, that your own thoughts and feelings effect what is happening. Your telepathy, by its very nature, creates what you observe, just as much as it reveals what has already been created.
>>41868799
>How could you sit by, doing nothing, when you have the perspective to feel the pain in the world? You can't.
You choose to witness and feel the pain in the world too though. You choose that as a catalyst to force your metaphysical will into action, because you don't know how to motivate that action on its own terms without having a sufficient cause to move you into action.
What you see is actually more arbitrary than what you imagine, catalysts perceived as real are more effective, than those you know are fake.
>>41868799
>Furthermore, when you understand the power of your behaviors you recognize the responsibility you have to wield them for positive change.
Yet again, a choice. You may be compelled to act for positive change, but do you even know what that is? What if, in your fanaticism for 'positive change', you end up empowering an even greater evil through your own naivete and ignorance as how to actually achieve a positive change?

>>41868875
Hegel just seems to have been working on understanding free-will with that one. Its something of a parallel to what OP is saying, sure. But gaining self-awareness isn't limited to being a slave who interacts with the material world; however, being a human is comparable to being a slave, if you draw connections between having to master your body or be under its direction or under someone else's control through incompetence or poor maintenance of the body's points of influence (e.g., emotions which are manipulable especially among other people and their agendas or entertainment; and sensations which are tantalizingly pleased by accessible pleasures of society, and mindless bread and circus entertainment).

>>41868914
NYPN

Not Your Personal Note to reply to, schizo.

>>41868869
>It's telling you this false material prison realm is the best lol are you retarded
That is not what happened with the post.

>>41868937
>Your telepathy, by its very nature, creates what you observe, just as much as it reveals what has already been created.

You'd have to explain this, or concede on that train of thought. Doesn't make sense to me.

>You choose that as a catalyst to force your metaphysical will into action...

The insightful perspective

>...because you don't know how to motivate that action on its own terms without having a sufficient cause to move you into action.

...But not deep. This just goes back to your ongoing point. What I mean is, there's no new venue beyond this point you have, so far. The rest is extraneous to the point you're replying to. Just about the nature and role of perception and its orientation in respect to reality's relativized events.
Now that I've given you that enveloping view, you might have other insights. Which would you state, when they are all relativized..., and you might not have realized this reflective insight, but I digress.

>the third counterpoint

You and OP are lurking about empathy. It's role is indeed important. Your point is too relativized and originates from a perception of the necessary wisdom that intertwines with empathy's responsibility (this part is coming from OP's mention of pain).
I could say that this point is along the lines of the imagined perception of which you spoke. Resides hypothetically, but thinking about it can be a universal/applies-to-anyone step and logical so that it can be understood in further engagement of the point in conversation. I won't do that myself. But I'll conclude by saying that you certainly see the importance of choice in OP's latter supporting points for what is basically "heaven", although he paints it with responsibility and sympathy, and importantly he only briefly talks about how it involves no choice, and so your position is on the opposite side to his understanding of it.

>>41869084
>You'd have to explain this, or concede on that train of thought. Doesn't make sense to me.
You can telepathically perceive a real war for instance, trying to understand each person and who is right or wrong, and why the conflict is occurring, but at the same time, you are identifying as the actors in the war, you are experiencing their feelings and actions, and even performing acts of combat on their behalf to take or save lives.
Or, you could perceive an imaginary war, something you saw in a fictional universe on television, in a movie, in a book, and then as you perceive this event, you also perceive other souls you know about populating the characters in the event, and acting as if its a real event, rather than a fictional story you made up, or decided to make real within your own mind.
Or you could perceive some loving with your favorite character, in a universe with no war, just you and your love having fun and disconnected from the cycles of incarnation and life and death.
Three things telepathically perceived.
Now, the first instance, it is a real war, real people are dying, you are doing real actions in your soul which influences the outcome of that war.
In the second instance, its a fake war, the people dying are souls who are temporarily involved in a fictional story, from which they will wake up from as if it was a bad dream, and then go on with their normal lives.
In the third instance, you know its fake, and yet you act in a way that doesn't bring anyone to harm, and is something you actually want your soul to experience and participate in, rather than a war you are forced into, or a war you chose.
From the telepathic perspective, all of these events are 'real' information, real cosmic reality that has acted as a cocreator with your soul to have an experience with you, and with others, together. Which do you choose?
If all reality is a dream, and you can 'wake up', into a paradise, why would you believe the fabricated hell is the real world?

>>41869084
>Now that I've given you that enveloping view, you might have other insights. Which would you state, when they are all relativized..., and you might not have realized this reflective insight, but I digress.
Catalysts are like carrots and sticks. Would you choose the stick if you knew about the carrot you could choose instead? Would you choose carrots for a thousand years if you could make the same progress in your soul from 10 years of choosing the stick?
Do you know how to motivate yourself into correct action, whether or not you think things will turn out okay either way? What if you thought they would turn out terribly if you didn't do anything?
>You and OP are lurking about empathy. It's role is indeed important. Your point is too relativized and originates from a perception of the necessary wisdom that intertwines with empathy's responsibility (this part is coming from OP's mention of pain).
This is somewhat the crux of the issue. I see that there are major problems in the world. At one point in my life I was trying fervently to telepathically choose a better future, and guide humanity towards that future through my own will. I didn't know what that correct future might be, but I did know who the 'bad guys' were, from my perspective at the time. By acting in a way that they were the bad guys, I entered into a cycle where I would manifest negative encounters with them.
At some point, I realized I could bypass the metaphysical reality of the bad guys, and just go to a future of my own soul that was good for me, regardless of what anyone else was choosing. That is somewhat where I am at now, but I am starting to think maybe some involvement might be prudent.
So my desire for metaphysical involvement hasn't entirely subsided, but I recognize the need to be more careful, to be subtle and make very well crafted and meditated actions, rather than haphazard attempts to fight evil.
What is evil anyway?

>>41869151
I see... So you're saying telepathy is a feature of higher realm, you were telling that to the OP.
But the war example, a war would only take place between beings like ourselves. Are we led to believe beings in higher realms telepathically receive our war experiences, then? We certainly don't have telepathy, so its about them or I'm missing something.
>perceive an imaginary war like on media
Wouldn't apply to beings in a higher plane, going by the necessary original point's context.
>perceiving love point
You might mean imagining.
>telepathically perceived

Depends if it can be done, I have to reiterate here that you are talking about the goings ons of higher planes. If not, there's some mix up between one of the three of us.

>Now, the first instance, it is a real war, real people are dying, you are doing real actions in your soul which influences the outcome of that war.

Interesting. So you *are" saying that this is an ability in a higher plane. You're suggesting that in the higher plane, the telepathic ability is both (1) directly tied to the choices people make and (2) creative by some means, maybe not by the ability itself but instead as it is a part of a mind, with creativity, that has greater control over a lower realm wherein that creativity may be exercised.
>the other two instances
I don't see how these could exist, as I argued above...

>If all reality is a dream, and you can 'wake up', into a paradise, why would you believe the fabricated hell is the real world?

Big "if". Your point is anything can be used for an
>experience
of your
>choice

But as you showed that you hold in belief: the most real catalyst is the most effective. Therefore this hypothetical finds its true ground in engaged, focused thought on it. Still though, we don't know if there is any substantial basis about there not being choice or there being choice in the presumably next up higher plane. I like the speculation that there isn't, because of connectedness.
Clarify?

>>41869263
>Are we led to believe beings in higher realms telepathically receive our war experiences, then?
They certainly do experience some level of it, not saying direct all the time, but there is involvement. Especially in the cases where they have to interact with the souls of people who have been killed in the war, and help them.
>We certainly don't have telepathy, so its about them or I'm missing something.
We do have it, at least I do. I don't perceive my own telepathic ability as something that fundamentally no other human could have, in fact I'm surprised more people don't have it, but by its very nature, its difficult to know how many people are actively using it, or being influenced by it, due to how obscure it is, and that its a socially unacceptable of a thing to talk about publicly.
I am effected in my soul by suffering occurring in the world. When people are acting with dishonor towards each other, that effects anyone who can witness such an act. The more awareness you have, the harder it is to completely escape such things.
>Depends if it can be done, I have to reiterate here that you are talking about the goings ons of higher planes. If not, there's some mix up between one of the three of us.
Its all part of the same continuum of existence. Higher planes and lower planes are connected to each other, in ways that are hard to discern and perceive, yet nevertheless exist.
>Interesting. So you *are" saying that this is an ability in a higher plane.
I wouldn't say the higher plane has greater control than the lower plane, in fact it may be the opposite. We have physical muscles, we can force things to happen here. Higher planes can only influence and suggest, and that is very much weaker than physical action. That is something of a human superpower.

>>41869263
>You're suggesting that in the higher plane, the telepathic ability is both (1) directly tied to the choices people make and (2) creative by some means, maybe not by the ability itself but instead as it is a part of a mind, with creativity, that has greater control over a lower realm wherein that creativity may be exercised.
Souls telepathically collaborate to create their individual and collective experiences, whether they realize their telepathy exists or not. The more aware you are, the more capability you have to consciously interact with these group creative projects, and also the ability to consciously participate or not. I'd say the notion of a mind having greater control isn't entirely true. The more you try to exert control, the more you too are also controlled by the 'reality' of the existence you are trying to influence. The more you invest in and believe in an experience, the more you participate, but also the more that experience seems real to you. Some higher dimensional realms appear even more real than this realm, even harder to think that its not the only realm in existence, despite also having higher telepathic and spiritual aspects of existence revealed to everyone.
The ability to discern the dream, and distance oneself from the apparent reality of the dream, is what give you actual creative freedom and control over your own experience and existence. When you no longer need to control or fight the collective battle of ignorance, the more you can go create something you actually really want, rather than what you seemingly have to be part of.
>I don't see how these could exist, as I argued above...
Basically how I describe it above. The less physically 'real' you need to make something and the less you need the thing you want to effect everyone, the easier it is to do. If its a better path, some will join in on your creation, but many will still involve themselves in the lower dimensional realm.

>>41869178
>Catalysts are like carrots and sticks. Would you choose the stick if you knew about the carrot you could choose instead? Would you choose carrots for a thousand years if you could make the same progress in your soul from 10 years of choosing the stick?
Do you know how to motivate yourself into correct action, whether or not you think things will turn out okay either way? What if you thought they would turn out terribly if you didn't do anything?

Very choice-themed point. The drawback of anyone making points about choice is that when I make one, the conversation's hypothetical basically turns from guided hypnosis to "well that's all I had to say ever, you're on your own now! we all are! thought experiment by conversation is over!"
That's the problem with choice-oriented hypotheticals and their rhetoric.

To go into profound territory, basic choice is innate and I'm currently exercising it, we can either delve into our trains of thought by our own intellectual capacity and conversational participation, or we can lure each other in, guide each other to insights learning inadvertently because we are curious or thinking one has the upperhand in knowledge.
*smiles at the camera*
Who says it can't be entertaining? But as you may have guessed it, yes that is my insight. That is my response.
>This is somewhat the crux of the issue
Looks like I got the bullseye or near it. I'm very meta when I focus.
>So my desire for metaphysical involvement hasn't entirely subsided, but I recognize the need to be more careful, to be subtle and make very well crafted and meditated actions, rather than haphazard attempts to fight evil.
>What is evil anyway?
Far from the original point... My intention was to clarify the earlier topic. You are intelligent though.

>>41869263
>Big "if". Your point is anything can be used for an
>>experience
There are undoubtably other realms with souls who don't subscribe to the same bullshit that we do.
>of your
Souls in those other realms have their own bullshit that they do subscribe to. Some of it is even more bullshit by our standards.
>>choice
But if you can shift between multiple realities, rather than just here and there, but here, there, some other place, some other time, some other world, some other star galaxy or universe, then it is a choice. How true can this reality be, if everyone here willingly refuses to awaken from the dream, and see it as a dream, and choose a different understanding of existence? How far can you really go along with everyone when you know what they think and believe is bullshit, because you know that its a completely different set of bullshit that they believe a hundred or a thousand years ago, and that they will come up with a new set of bullshit tomorrow?
>But as you showed that you hold in belief: the most real catalyst is the most effective. Therefore this hypothetical finds its true ground in engaged, focused thought on it.
I think the most real catalyst will be the most meaningful to you, but that doesn't make it any less arbitrary. You could make pink unicorns a catalyst, something you never expect to have any reality on any level whatsoever. Your sudden perception of a pink unicorn in such an instant would be a huge shock to your ontological viewpoint, and might catalyze a view that reality really isn't as real as it seems.
>Clarify?
You will invest more in the things you care about, than the things you don't. If you believe that they are of upmost importance, you might even give your life for them, which would awaken you to your soul.

>>41869300
>I am effected in my soul by suffering occurring in the world.
Wouldn't that just be empathy, then?
Sounds like you might soon say that empathy at a certain scale turns into telepathy.
For the sake of argument, it would be logical to say that it would be a very basic form of telepathy...if anything.
Might as well just be empathy?

My mind is drawing blanks. I might need to sleep.

>>41869359
Yes, telepathy and emotion are very much connected. Emotion is essentially a psychic body of perception. The more you 'love', reality, everything, the more if it you will have access to and be able to perceive. If you love war, you will perceive war, if you love peace, you will perceive peace. If you love reality, you will perceive all of the above, and more, and have to deal with it on some level. total love allows you to exist in a place where you did not before. You can use love as a body of for your awareness to touch the world. The more you love your enemy, the more you can understand and influence them. The more you love your friend, the more you can elevate them.
Who can have enemies when you know everyone?