I have been dabbling through spirituality and religion for a long time now, and i can't really decide when it comes to the idea of the christian God or the demiurge.I just want to make this thread to settle the debate, mostly because i'm pretty much neutral and kind of a doubting christcuck. But i must admit that the logic behind traditional christianity seems pretty flawed.I keep coming back to the same tension and I want serious answers from people who actually know about both ideas.In christianity the creator of this world is the highest and most perfect reality. This world is declared good. Suffering exists because of human failure or disobedience. The solution is alignment through faith obedience and worship.Although what keeps pushing me toward this question is the massive gap between human imagination and human material capability.We can imagine total freedom perfect justice infinite beauty worlds without decay bodies without pain forms of existence that are not based on consumption and death. We can conceive of eternity and the absolute. But in material terms we are fragile biological systems that get sick age forget depend on hierarchies and spend most of life working to survive.If this world was made by a perfect and benevolent absolute; why is there such a violent mismatch between what consciousness can see and what matter allows?And also, how is it that suffering looks like the only meaningful currency?. Why is it that jesus needs to die on the cross? Why is sin something that must be punished if it just means "to miss the mark"?Why would God need to sacrifice his own son? To appease the rules? He is master of all creation, his will is law afterall.It is said that God loves us so much that he died for us. But why is suffering and death the ultimate form of love? Suffering and death is just that. Its almost like the God of this reality only values the energy he can extract from suffering...
Gnosticism is Christianity and it's life-denying logic taken to extreme, essentially its ultrachriscuckeryThere is a theory what gnosticism is pushed by elites - and its pushed by elites, because goycattle wouldn't find anything on it wuthout gnostic themes being brought up in goyslop media - for demoralization purposes.Why fight for your rights, for a better world, or at least personap glory and power if world is "muh bad"
>>41976336Hmm... That actually makes a lot of sense, but then; What is the true spiritual path?
>>41976311I will post some images to blackpill you on Gnosticism.
>>41976311>>41976359Image 2
>>41976311>>41976359Image 3
>>41976359Thx brah
>>41976359Image 4
>>41976359Image 5.Gnostics were right about NPCs too - they called them "hylics". The Hindus called them "pashu".
>>41976359Image 6
gnosticism is so fucking retarded it's so annoying hearing their fucking larping narcissism all the time holy fucking shit
>>41976311>. But why is suffering and death the ultimate form of love? Suffering and death is just that.>Its almost like the God of this reality only values the energy he can extract from suffering...because you get reborn as an evolved entity in the cycle of samsara owo
>>41976415Then explain why it's retarded, i am here tolearn what you have to say, not to impose my beliefs on you
>>41976359>>41976380Image 7. Final image on flat earth because it neatly ties the idea that we live in an enclosed loosh farm Matrix really well while dispelling globe Earth notions. I don't claim to know anything 100% but do with this information what you will. The rulers of this realm lie to us about everything.>Thx brahNo problem. These are just a collection of my own noticings and some other anons noticing too. Check out Chiron Last on YouTube for more etymology-based stuff. His videos blackpilled me on a lot of esoteric knowledge.https://youtu.be/V1gBj8CiKto
>>41976311Read more. Read the Bible, the Quran, the Corpus Hermeticum, Plato, Aristotle, Epictetus, Seneca, Plotinus, Iamblichus, Proclus. Don't stop reading. Know that your mind is of The Mind, your soul is of The Soul, God loves you, and wants the best for you.
>>41976311The problem with Gnosticisim is that it implies hidden knowledge and depending on the Gnostic will deny the divinity of Jesus.Christians believe EVERYTHING has been revealed and we are just waiting for the conclusion of all things and obviously that Jesus was God taking on human flesh.
>>41976534I will
>>41976551>Christians believe EVERYTHING has been revealedAnd what has been revealed by your god exactly? Christianity has dozens of denominations that all think they're right so I guess "God" wasn't clear enough. Your god openly describes himself as jealous which is a quality of the Devil and a word that is antithetical to the actions of Jesus Christ, and not only that, but the Bible claims God is not the author of confusion when one look at the denominational tree of Christianity across history would disprove that completely.
This world is just a dreamJesus literally says the ruler of this world is evil. Like wtf do people get the idea that he says the opposite? As for your post OP, this world is indeed pretty bad. All I know for sure is that I didn't ask to be here; this place is like a prison planet. Jesus as the savior archetype makes the most sense if you believe that some humans were forced to exist without God's intervention. Otherwise it just collapses in on itself.
>>41976449>The rulers of this realm lie to us about everything.And tell us the truth too. It's just hidden in plain sight in a wrapper of lies.
>>41976649This is correct. Just look at the way the old testament spins the creation story. Enki/Prometheus created humanity and gave us divine knowledge, against the will of Enlil/Zeus. Lucifer (the light bearer, Enki/Prometheus) actually created us, loved us enough to give us knowledge to transcend an animalistic existence, even though it brought self awareness with it. Yahwe/Enlil/Zeus are mad because we're no longer cattle rolling around in the mud dependent on him.
>>41976353Total Aryan Victory
>>41976311I think the issue is, that all these 'problems', aren't something that necessarily exist outside this reality. They are part of this reality. To even have this reality, the souls have to massively lower their frequency and vibration to the point where they don't overwhelm existence with their might and power, and to do that necessitates some type or original wound or rupture within our consciousness that allows us to fully immerse into this world. Suffering is how that immersion is broken asunder and the spirit frees itself from the flesh and returns to its original state.Sin is the reason we can't make that return without suffering. If we were sinless, then our natural growth as life forms would elevate our consciousness until we returned to heaven. Because sin existed from the start, there is no true understanding or knowledge of how to actually live a sinless life, and to escape suffering.This was a big injustice, and because we were uniquely fucked, God had to come down here to set things straight and tell us how to live without sin. It wouldn't be fair if he just came here to give a message and then got out without experiencing what it means to be us though, so he suffered too, and by doing so, he took on the burden of sin so that he could lift it from us rather than us having to live perfect lives to escape from sin ourselves.
dont worship the jew on a stick. not dismissing spirituality in general but slave religion
>>41976353>What is the true spiritual path?Any actual spiritual path, rather than mentally formulating views and fabrications based on 2nd hand information.If you are in touch with your heart, you can learn from spirit itself, you don't have to guess and ponder over various traditions. Most of this mental shit is bullshit thats only going to waste your time, rather than get you anywhere. A spiritual path is something you walk, you have to move, its not a predetermined end state that you arrive at by thinking or understanding the perfect though or system.
>>41976311>We can imagine total freedom perfect justice infinite beauty worlds without decay bodies without pain forms of existence that are not based on consumption and death. We can conceive of eternity and the absolute.We can'tWe can theorize, hypothesize, hem and haw about them all we like but we cannot concieve of them any more meaningfully that you can concieve a new color or a world with 4 spatial dimensions instead of 3.It is a conceit on our part to even think that our imagination of these higher things is in any way even close to equivalent to experiential knowledge of them
>>41976353Love God with all your beingLove your neighbor as you love yourselfThese two simple commandments are very difficult to follow
>>41976407Riddle me this: How could the demiurge be the creator of the "material world" if the existence of the elements preceded him? That would suggest that materiality is a natural part of the universe. My guess, based on my own personal experience with how the infinite affects reality when consciously engaged with, is that this realm isn't a prison because of material. I think it's a prison because it exists shielded from the ever correcting, perfecting, and harmonizing light of god. That's why it requires our loosh to sustain itself. But I'd imagine materiality exists outside of this realm, but I'd think that real life is likely quite a bit lighter and less dense than this place.
>>41976924>How could the demiurge be the creator of the "material world" if the existence of the elements preceded him? >if the existence of the elements preceded himI don't see the point of responding when the premise is moot. The nature of the higher dimensions like the astral plane which have no materiality according to reports from astral projectors indicates that your premise is false.
>>41976984>I don't see the point of responding when the premise is moot.Gnostic mythology literally states that the demiurge used the preexisting power of the elements to craft this place. Materiality factually preceded the demiurge. I think this whole 'le materiality is inherently evil' is completely farcical. I think this realm is evil, there's an evil overlay on this place, but materiality itself is simply a fulfillment of potentiality.
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxORp0NJ1EONc1OGHeMOcE31UucYCpU1SR
>>41976311This is a 1700 year old heresy and the first council of the Catholic Church discussed it. The infamous council of Nicaea. Look it up, Catholic sources and learn. Go and learn it before a bird comes and takes this seed away from you.
>>41976311It's because as humans we only know are senses. God says he will supply are needs but it hard to believe that when its outside yourself , like we know milk comes from cows and that the jugs in the markets are the end product of that but you nether see how it's treated and prepare to get there. You only know it by it's physical appearance in the store, it's the same with God he willing to show how we get when we only use the information from are senses and what fearful decisions will make us do to one another.
Gnosticism is fake and gay. Good job falling for counter-initiation.
>>41976359Peak schizo shit. This is why i come here.You're also very clearly gay. As in, you're actually gay, a queer. I can tell.
The devout follower of the demiurge, when they cannot defend the illusory benevolence of their master, they defend his might. As if his ability to completely fuck you on an ontological level proves his worthiness of doing so. This isn't about Christ, it's about who he warned us about; The God of this world. His message was simple: "THIS WORLD FUCKING SUCKS, IT'S RULED BY THE DEVIL IN A VERY LITERAL WAY. I HAVE FOUND A WAY OUT." and he was sacrificed by that very same ruler. The one who rules by fear, who takes pleasure in puppeteering puppets toward their annihilation and whatever unfortunate souls they have inside. It's a function of design, one many of you have rejected. You thought you were broken, but the world is broken, and your recognition of that is not a flaw but a beautiful uniqueness you shouldn't allow them to have.
>>41977032>the demiurge used the preexisting power of the elements That doesn't mean matter already existed, at least as we understand it. If a man makes a piece of art, it didn't exist when the art was only paint in a bucket. I agree that matter was not created ex nihilo though. The realm of matter is said to exist in the Kenoma anyway, not the Pleroma.>>41977592Epstein was "le schizo" too.
>has to find his answers in the external>crowdsourcing spirituality like redditorlol hylicalso its obviously the demiurge
YOU GNOSTICS ARE PATHETIC SATAN BASTARDS AND WILL BE EXTERMINATED FROM EARTH ALONG WITH YOUR DECAD GODS SATAN BASTARDS MORE PATHETIC THEN YOU ARE.
>>41977875>demiurge puppet immediately threatens violencelol
>>41976369>crucifixion>or Cruci.....FICTIONThat one got me
>>41976353What this anon said >>41976888 is correct. Spirituality is found within, not without. It is a journey inward. Many spiritual texts are cumbersome and confusing. The only one that ever worked for me was the Tao Te Ching, and you know its good when it defeats itself in the first sentence "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao". The ultimate purpose of a good text on spirituality is that of a pointing finger; it points towards something greater which can only be grasped on reflection and careful observation, not something which can be understood by mere words on paper.
>rulers of the world hate Christ and also push gnosticism on us through their moviesThink about that aspect of it OP. See where the intentions lie.
>>41978147trvthnuke alert
>>41977886These are real schizo hours.
>>41976442gnosticism is retarded because it presupposes an all knowing all benevolent god above the demiurge, who still created allowed for the demiurge knowing full well it would cause suffering and evilwhat does that make him?gnosticism just relegates the problem of evil without addressing it and then it pretends it doesn't exist
After all, the Bible denies ghosts.Seeing a ghost means the Bible is a lie
>>41976598Oh the ol Muslim I didn't read the Quran cope.All Christians believe the same thing.>Jesus is the Son of God>He was born of the Virgin Mary>Jesus is the fulfillment of the Prophets>The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God 3 persons 1 God>He suffered death, was buried and Rose again from the Dead>He ascended into Heaven>He will come again in glory to Judge the Living and the Dead>Baptism The 10,000 denominations crap is cope if you do not believe these things at the BARE MINIMUM you are not Christian. If I as a Catholic go to a Bapitist Church and ask them do you believe the Apostles Creed they will say yes.We all agree that the Bible is the Inspired Word of God. We might dispute minor translation issues but we do not deny the teachings of the Bible.
>>41979222Doesn't someone in the Bible literally see a ghost?
>>41979209>gnosticism just relegates the problem of evil without addressing it and then it pretends it doesn't existSee pic-related.
>>41976311>christcuckThis brainlet animal is a slave to the material realm, cant fully comprehend his existence outside of the framework of chimp mind food/sex/sleep/safety. Yet he has the audacity to wrangle his shitstained fingers across a keyboard to shitup the board with a thread that is, in its essence, a display of complete retardation masquerading as interest. >been interested in spirituality for a long time1 week...thats all it fucking takes...1 week of going through a wide variety of esoteric literature is enough to give a non-challenged individual the proper foundation of knowledge needed to not make this kind of absolute retardation of a thread. Spirituality is just about absorbing vast amounts of literature and then quoting things back to feign genuine interest as a trinket for your public persona. Actual inner work needs to be done before you so much as look at a fucking book. The senses and awareness are far more important, the exploration of their boundaries as well as different states is what counts. A retard having a pseudointelectual comparative discussion on two or more topics he can only quote back isnt remotely productive. If you want to even so much as be initiated into spirituality, you genuinely have to start working on the foundations and axioms within yourself instead of being told what the fuck you are. Self awareness is the very first fucking step. Go get some
>>41980720What problem of evil?
>>41976336The stupid o9a shit you read steals half its theology from gnostic beliefs, fuck off retard
>>41976311Am I a fool for being scared back into religious contemplation because of the state of the world?I feel like a fraud but I have this gut feeling that I need to arm myself in every way possible, not just physically or with money.
>>41976311Consider my story, anon. I was sick as a child, and sociopathic doctors tricked my parents into letting them use me as a lab rat. I was tortured for three years before my dad realized what was happening and put a stop to it.Now consider that if I make a rape joke, or call someone a nigger: Everyone around me will likely turn on me like piranhas. They can't be peaceful, either because they are genuinely hurt, or because they are looking for excuses to attack people. They are so weak that they freak out over something that wouldn't have even registered to me when I was a lab rat. Or put another way: They can't even deal with a fraction of a fraction of what I endured as a 5 year old kid.Well, no, that's not right. They never learned how much even a child can endure and still survive, so they have no idea how much a full grown adult can endure. Instead they constantly live in fear of being tested, and they will sacrifice anyone as long as it means they can avoid suffering. Thus they cannot be trusted. They cannot be true friends. They waste their lives playing social-social games where they jockey for status among themselves, never realizing that the only thing that allows them to do this is the suppression of violent-social people who would beat the cowardice out of them.Part of why Jesus died on the Cross was to force us to face our own suffering. To live and die by His own words. To live in a way that allows true friendship and trustworthiness to blossom in the world. And true friendship... That's just about the only thing in this world that has any real value. But you have to suffer until your fear dies in order to be a true friend to someone else.
>>41981691You are completely in the right if you ask me, but don't stress about it too much also. The whole circus that's playing is out ultimately out of our hands, try to focus on matters of the soul and capital g Good things.
>>41980059No, there are only demons in the Bible.
>>41976311The thing with christianity is it's been twisted through the exoteric dogma, which is the one that's fed to the masses. Christianity gains coherence if you're not a near sighted bible thumper that's scared of the word "esoteric", because after all, the bible is an eastern esoteric omnibus.For starters you gotta drop the "benevolent"/"malevolent" filter, that's an exoteric view for the sheep. Every serious esoteric mystical framework deals with ineffability through singularity, benevolence and malevolence are present at the same time, or there aren't at all, it can't be one or the other. Another big problem in the exoteric model is the anthropomorphization of God, which is clearly a projection of human psyche upon the "divine", and it gives place to unserious concepts such as the "sky daddy" meme.Truth is exoteric followers of any religion shouldn't discuss metaphysics, it's like inviting a monkey to give a speech at a quantum physics conference. They have their set of exoteric spiritual bureaucracy they've been fed in order to lead simple/unbothered lives, and they shouldn't enter other layers while carrying all that nonsense.
>>41978147They hate Christ because the west is controlled by Jews. They don't push Gnosticism, they push Judaism, Satanism, atheism and Holocaust catechism.Gnosticism is the most antisemitic of all religious views because it explicitly rejects in totality the Jewish god. Christ, assuming he features in a Gnostic cosmology at all (because they don't all feature Christ), is a Christ interpretation that has nothing to do with a Jewish Messiah prophecy. Christ is not a flesh and blood rabbi, but a celestial spiritual force from the true God that spits on the Jewish Demiurge written about in the Old Testament.
>we must escape the prison and rejoin the monad>the monad just sits there letting Yaldabaoth cause untold suffering for the lolzRemind me why should we get ourselves absorbed into the Monad again? Sounds just as bad as living here. And the other alternative is probably wandering an endless void. fucking hell
>>41976353Look up a book by Adolf Hitler, called Mein Kampf, to find out. He was right all this time, why was he censored?
