so, all the silicon valley people lately are getting into jhana meditation and yapping about it on x formerly twitter there's a startup trying to create an app, possibly with a brain scanning headset, that can train you to reach this state quickly, but anyone can theoretically do it when the buddha was going on about meditation this is basically what he was talking about1. meditate, focusing on one specific thing (usually breathe at the nose/lips) but don't get all up in your head about it, don't tense up2. eventually you should feel pleasure somewhere in your body3. notice the pleasure but DON'T try to make it bigger or change it. just notice it. notice the heck out of it4. this is the jhana: you should feel the pleasure spread through your body and increase until your entire body is full of pleasure5. experience heroin-level pleasure that rewires your brain but has no addictive component6. optionally there are 7 more stages including full cessation of consciousnessI've gotten close but not reached it myself. any anons gotten to jhanas?
>>41977576it's easy, i've been doing it for as long as i can remember.
>>41977579what do you use as your focus object prior to entering 1st jhana? have you progressed into the further jhanas, past 1st?
>>41977579i can't help but feel like maybe you are not being honest
>>41977576Damn near most of the Silicon Valley people are drug abuser sociopaths.Most don't do the work themselves, they are just good at getting funding.Most are part of frsternities of Ivy League institutions.It's a huge circle jerk.Almost all are charlatans and scammers Same amount are just baggers about their cars and paintings and how expensive/how much money they spend but actually sound superunhappy, unfulfilled.>t. friends with a silicone valley girl who gets invited to these parties and tells me about these people. Interesting bunch.
>>41977878I'm sure that's true. It isn't really relevant, though. The jhanas are real and can be achieved and I want to discuss them.
On my PC now so can post some more resourcessubstack.com/inbox/post/179873737 - Fairly useful no-bullshit post about how to access Jhanasjhana-retreat.vercel.app - A decent site with an audio player for all of Rob Burbea's excellent discussions on jhanas from a retreat he did
I hope I can find at least one other person interested in this stuff.
THE FIRST JHANA has four factors as described in the suttas: thinking/attention (vitakka), examining/discernment (vicara), rapture (piti) and happiness (sukha). Vitakka and vicara are grouped together and basically describe discursive thought. Some sources translate vitakka-vicara as 'initial and sustained attention', but nowhere in the original suttas does it say that this is a factor of the first jhana. This, like ekaggata, is a later addition. Access concentration to achieve the first jhana is NOT intense. It's the bare minimum of what's needed to get here. Jhana is not just one-pointed, it's not only about focusing. The concept of ekaggata indicates that you can "force" it, but jhana is not just raw concentration. It's bliss, refinement, abandonment, simplicity of mind, all coming to a point, a point of release. Let go. Abandon, simplify, let go. The jhanas can be thought of as stages of letting go. When you are free of the five hindrances, pleasant sensations start to arise in your body. Let go of whatever object of attention you are concentrating on (e.g. the breath) and become aware of these sensations. Do not cling to them, just observe them. You are aware of the body. "Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he entered and remained in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected."These captchas are really annoying.
>>41977576I think I've experienced what you're talking about OP. Usually my focus object is a redhead with huge tits and a bubble butt and my initial pleasure felt "somewhere in [my] body" begins in my penis.
>>41977576If you want I can clear your channels and assist you with getting there faster.
>>41977576I just got this book. I think some Anon recommended it in a recent thread.
>>41977576you can do it breathing and you feel all tingly and magicalit goes nowheresilicon valley people like it because thers numbers and levels and you can put it on a retarded fucking powerpoint slide
>>41982613Right Concentration is good from what I've heard, definitely some good advice in there. >>41980498Sensuality is a block in the way of jhana.>>41983968Bro this isn't feeling 'all tingly and magical'. That's piti, that's pre-jhana1. J1 feels like a full body orgasm.
>>41981982Sure man thanks. Anyway my current biggest question about Jhana is whether it genuinely is true that you need to do all the Buddhist shit in order to achieve them. I mean stuff like having genuine insight into impermanence, forgiving yourself, loving everyone, being sober for a few days prior to meditation, etc. Obviously you don't need to be a vegetarian but like, once you reach jhana can you be an angry gambling murderer and still reach it? Or do you really need to be a Buddha-like person?I think I generally have a lot of insight into the truths of the world and understand at least on some level most of the Buddha's teachings but I'm certainly not free of desiring or sensuality or things like that.
>>41984594From a technical point of view, unresolved psychological issues can be a hindrance to the progress of meditation as these things can come up to the surface or unconsciously block you because you don't want to address it. If you're an angry gambling murderer, you obviously have some issues, possibly childhood trauma. Forgiveness, compassion and love can dissolve these blockages. See the story of Milarepa. He used black magic to take revenge on his uncle doing him real dirty. With magic he killed dozens of innocent people at a wedding and the guilt was eating him up so he sought to learn the dharma to become enlightened in one lifetime and so he became one of the great enlightened beings and most influential people in Tibet. https://youtu.be/865KgJohdBs
>>41982613Right Concentration isn't even part of the 8-fold path. It's right samadhi. Good luck finding "concentration" in your practice. And most people probably want to find the jnanas to look cool
>>41984954It's a little wonky but it seems these words make an impact on the Jungian subconscious and then when you seek the word "concentration" rather than "samadhi" you worship this egregore conjured by Americans
>>41984954>According to Gunaratana, the term 'samādhi' derives from the roots 'sam-ā-dhā', which means 'to collect' or 'bring together', and thus it is generally translated as "concentration."
>>41985005Please quote Wikipedia some more. Why don't you use some of that concentration and actually engage with what I am saying? Why the FUCK would you translate samadhi?When you meditate in samadhi you don't say "samadhi, samadhi," because it is the ripening of karma - but I guarantee you guys are going "concentration, concentration" and all you ever achieve is the "concentration" achieved by other concentrators. Just so an autistic man I know chants "awareness, awareness!" Because a psychiatrist told him toThere is no such thing as right concentration, it's literally a form egregore conjured in your mind by assholes
>>41984954poor translations are among the biggest problems with discussing this subjectit includes the happenstance of some wanting to say that the suttas are unquestionable authority,but then we forget that most any sutta anyone will read is a translation and we wind up needing to examine potential translation issues.>biggest question about Jhana is whether it genuinely is true that you need to do all the Buddhist shit in order to achieve them>I mean stuff like having genuine insight into impermanence, forgiving yourself, loving everyone, being sober for a few days prior to meditation, etc.metta needs to be a practice outcome before it can be properly called forththe physical aspects are often somewhat neglected on this topicjhana arise out of sheer conditioningsamahdi is only possible when hardcore levels of conditioning are attainedotherwise the probability for their arising is simply infinitesimalso in order to accomplish these things, one must ask himself "how may I best arrange the conditions for these things to arise">(usually breathe at the nose/lips)many dont understand how this instruction can be a barrier to attainingI've told you all many a time to think of the neurological statesrefined bodily mechanics imbues quiescence at the neurological levelthis is the most appropriate baseline to go afterfor the spark of samahdi does not stay manifest if one does not have mastery at the neurological leveltaken deeper and we realize that the neurological potentials generated from sense processing directly contribute to the energy potential that forms random thoughtsthis realization does not come unless one cultivates to such a level>focus on the pleasurebad advicedont focus on the scenery or arising thingsfocus on that which arranges the conditions for their arising>there are 7 more stages including full cessation of consciousnessawareness always remains...that is, "that which sees"the void is not oblivioneven when all phenomena drop away
>>41985111I love the sutras, there are actually 4 distinct Samadhis that I discovered from the Sutras. I don't know how people don't read the sutras. I think it's lazy. For example if you'd read the sutras there are Samadhis, not a single spiritual experience called samadhi. You learn the Samadhis and cycle through them skillfully. This can be debated. But by analogy, right view doesn't mean there is a single state of mind called "View;" there are multitudinous right views
>>41985005>thus it is generally translated as "concentration."the problem with this correlation is that most people equate concentration to thinkingand thinking consumes the same root potential that samahdi requires an abundance of in order to manifestI will say this unequivocally,thinking is the opposite of meditative concentration, the opposite of samahdi, the opposite of quiescencethe entire point of rote training is habituation, building the habit energy vectorthis is key to attaining the ability to keep the mind completely stillif the mind cannot be kept still then what's most likely is that one will be unable to attain the great stillness, much less samahdi
>>41985124>Savitarka Samadhi (Gross Concentration): The mind is focused on a gross object (e.g., a candle flame) along with its name, meaning, and knowledge.as one who has attained samahdi more times than I can count, I contend that Savitarka samahdi is not even samahdithis is a very key point: thoughtforms are incompatible with samahdithinking anything at all, contemplating anything, is incompatible with samahdithese things preclude samahdi from ever manifesting, so it makes no sense to talk about a mythical samahdi that exists concurrently with contemplation. its just not it, period, I dont care who wrote it.>Savichara Samadhi (Subtle Concentration): The mind is focused on a subtle object (e.g., chakras, internal energy), moving beyond gross qualitiesthis is consistent>Sananda Samadhi (Blissful Concentration): A state characterized by a deep inner sense of joy or bliss, moving beyond mere analysis.bliss happens when the endocrine system becomes charged up by the process and activates the top down master endocrine control, sparking the metabolism into higher function - there is no point in even distinguishing this as "some other samahdi">Sasmita Samadhi (I-am-ness Concentration): The state of pure awareness, where the meditator is aware only of their own existence (individuality) before merging into higher consciousnessI wonder who wrote this, it doesnt sound like anyone who has akshually attained samahdi has written these things and only heard about it from someone elseI've only dabbled in the suttas because I attained samahdi before I ever bothered to read them, so I have my own descriptions based on my personal experiencesthis last one touches on the part where all phenomena drop awaybut there's very few who can write about the brilliant spark of spiritual light that arises past these thingsI am one of them
>>41985164Yeah I don't really agree with your neurobiological mode of interpreting the Buddhadharma, but you seem to like it so go ahead whatever. If you're interested in my practice I bought a microphone and started reciting Sutras on YouTube. Maybe you can attain Samadhiraja. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkWX0W5LgEgGqqezDRP0LX5TKpdPuliZO&si=2xHNRCYoa6LxrVE0But the one I really recommend is Samadhivajra, which is easy to attain from 2 pages of the Nirvana Sutra. I am very addicted to Samadhiraja, and it is causing me to drop my worldly pursuits. But I have had bad experiences with religion and wonder if I really want to dedicate my life to Buddha/VishnuFor now reciting these sutras is making me feel like I've accomplished something. I only just started but my goal is to do the Avatamsaka Sutra, which is 1600 pages. I at the very least want to get to the Nirvana Sutra once I'm more practiced.
>>41984594>Obviously you don't need to be a vegetarian but like, once you reach jhana can you be an angry gambling murderer and still reach it? Or do you really need to be a Buddha-like person?>I think I generally have a lot of insight into the truths of the world and understand at least on some level most of the Buddha's teachings but I'm certainly not free of desiring or sensuality or things like that.among the things that inhibit samahdi:getting pissed offexpending energy on being angry (or stressed, or overly happy, or basically, extremes of any emotion)alcohol (processing alcohol consumes way too much chi, it affects gung levels, which are what's built that help drive the ability to attain significant enough stillness for samahdi to arise)too much sex just leaves your perineum in a more or less inflamed state and it winds up being that it cannot travel properly for maximally efficient breath mechanics to take place, plus there's the matter of the body having to direct resources there for replenishment that ultimately affects the gung as well
>>41985133Sure, it's a poor translation like most sanskrit lacking an English equivalent. But claiming to be some advanced spiritual practitioner and behaving like an angry child when triggered by wrong terms used, in this case the title of a book focused on the jhanas, is a bit contradictory and not very constructive to the discussion.
>>41977576if they were actually successful in this practice they would no longer be employed or posting on x (formerly known as twitter)success in this endeavour marks the death of all other endeavours and a renunciation of the world, not out of some kind of sacrificial act or feeling of transcendence, but merely out of no longer requiring the world, as you would discard an empty cup once the contents have been consumed
>>41985197>Yeah I don't really agree with your neurobiological mode of interpreting the Buddhadharmait is a pity that you read my words and cannot equate them properly to the Buddhadharmamy words are modern and refined, specific and pointedusing terms and concepts unknown to ancient peopleyet all are in perfect accord with the BuddhadharmaI never longed for samahdiI did not know its name or the attendant phenomenaI never tried to get anywhere, only refine, refine, refinewhen the spark arose it was most surprising and unexpectedit took a handful of occurrences to learn how to catch ita handful more to learn to stabilize itand eventually I was able to observe it arising, expect it, abide in it equanimously, firm its foundations as I began to recognize the precursors to arising perturbations, accomplishing that stage allows one to keep the spiritual light manifest for however long the moment lasts, which can easily be 2 hours when one's focus is good enoughbut make no mistake it only manifests for a moment, its up to the practitioner how long that moment isone needs to make no offerings or prayers to attain thisone only needs to sit and refine the breath until all turbulence is gone, the motions well programmed into the autonomous functions, and play the keep-the-awareness game
>>41985258>behaving like an angry childcheck your mirror
One popular method is to focus on a candle flame.You can even focus on a pornographic image, or music.Binaural beats are good, too.It's about training your mind, it's an advanced form of meditation.The 'tingly' sensation is actually your nervous system regrowing and making new connections.That's also what 'tingles' are from ASMR, which is a minor form of this.Try focusing on an image or candle flame with some gentle binaural beats, that's what works best for me.
>>41985264>success in this endeavour marks the death of all other endeavours and a renunciation of the worldthis is the kind of garbage I'm talking about, where people think something sounds good in their head and decide its categorically truethough I will give you that at some point it becomes difficult to remain in society in a normal capacity and continue cultivating deeplyI completely understand why monks go innawoodsbut I can also assure you that it is attainable with enough and proper cultivation alone
>>41985281>You can even focus on a pornographic image
>>41977602none. yes.
>>41985304
>>41985287heh you got me, I did think it sounded good in my head and have the propensity to believe my good sounding thoughts are categorically truethanks for calling me out fren
>>41985268>Make autonomous awareness with the dopamine receptors Anyone can do this Faux-WisdomReal Buddhas disparage materialism
>>41977576bump for interest
>>41981982Anything like murder would create major energetic blockages in your being and prevent jhana. You still be a gambler afterwards but you would probably lose a lot of the desire as wordly things don’t feel as substantial and it takes more to get angry. Cleansing your channels now.
>>41985619I dont mean to be a dick about it, but its best to avoid giving the reader the impression that this bar is so high that its not worth even trying to jump over itit just takes regular, habitual, focused practice
>>41986795>Anyone can do this Faux-Wisdomno, not anyone can tell you these things that happen when your meditation reaches superlative depthsone has to cultivate to a pretty decent level to come to the realization of things like the sense potentials literally feeding the energetic remainder that perturbs the brain into the energetic balancing mechanism of manifesting a random thoughtand many other thingsthat's part of the problem with just outright telling people these thingsyou get angry people such as this guy who have no compunction over baselessly shitting on deep truths because they cant even recognize that they are truths>Real Buddhas disparage materialismthis doesnt even make sense, getting technical about the physical things that take place and the refinements thereof are not materialism
>>41988992>Anything like murder would create major energetic blockages in your being and prevent jhanaonly if one had a conscience to be perturbed about itits a misunderstanding that bad deeds can prevent one from cultivating to high degreewe just dont want evil people attaining power, things are bad enough with evil people and worldly power as it ismany old kung fu movies literally depicted this
>>41988992I will clarify though that it would inhibit the ability to attain full and complete enlightenmentbut jhana, siddhi...nah
lots of schizo adjacent discussions so far... this stuff really is attainable by anyone pretty much
>>41977878The mystical psychosis in silicon valley is their attempt to compensate for raping humanity and heal their self inflicted psychic wounds, but for those who have made their life’s purpose a grave spiritual crime, they won’t be able to reach peace or enlightenment until after they resolve this karma in physical reality. Hence the increasingly desperate and convoluted substance abuse and mysticism.
>>41989179I think you misunderstood what I meant but that's okay, every single word is always up for interpretation and it's impossible to actually 100% understand a message that is being conveyed, especially in such slippery and ethereal subjects as thisI never meant to express that it was a high bar, just that once one has jumped it (speaking from personal experience) then personal, time based, selfish and worldly pursuits will all appear as silly little games and jokes and lose their draw and important and then you (I) will recede from playing these games and just enjoy the bliss of your (mine) own being
>>41990215roger thatit came across to me as more of a "if you're going to undertake this stuff, best be prepared to leave everything behind" sort of thing, which is plenty enough to turn some folks off the entire notion.
>>41989219Evil (egotistical) people will more likely take the short cut working with spirits/demons to perform magic, rather than doing the hard work of rigorous meditation practices and develop powers. The scary version is if these silicone tech billionaires figure out how to use technology to control the brain and develop siddhis without enlightenment. You'll have materialist megalomaniac transhumanist brain chipped techno black magicians. They'll probably be even more entrenched in the matrix.
>>41990824they were already trying to induce it with trauma based mind control shitbut if the awareness isnt focused...that's a key part of the equationI dont think they'll be able to induce that part, which is why they will always fail at itthe path is only achieved by putting in the workI've never seen the having entities do shit for you path go all that well
>>41984566intensified distraction
