What "spiritual lesson" is taught by profound grief? It seems more like just one of the evil things about the universe that those you love can be taken from you at any time. >remembering that helps you appreciate them while they're here!This sounds nice, but parents who love their children don't need their children to die to know they love them more than anything in the world. Many (I would like to say most, but am actually not sure about that) parents would die for their children. Sometimes you can love someone so much you never truly recover when they die.
>>41980824This whole lesson shit makes no sense. Most NDE's describe that they have perfect clarity and knowledge in the afterlife. They can literally access the whole knowledge of the universe in a second.The lesson fags never say what the end goal even is. So you learn lessons and grow, then what? Existence is endless so there will be endless lessons to "learn" aka ENDLESS suffering? Amazing.
>>41980850I think the world/universe is a prison, not a school. The goal is to stop "existing"
>>41980858Why not exist and feel blissful? It's possible once out of our bodies, if we weren't tricked into reincarnating into this shithole.
Someone can also become so injured from grief they become poisoned in a way and do/believe things they otherwise wouldn't
>>41980871>if we weren't tricked into reincarnating into this shithole.I think they do that by showing you images of your dead loved ones. When I die I know I have to try my hardest to resist but worry I will be unable too, and throw away all my progress. Maybe I need to just accept that it's not really them. It's just an illusion.
>>41980824I am currently struggling with the translation of a certain word as "love" in the sutras, and am too lazy to Grok it. Metta (loving-kindness) is a high achievement, but that's love without attachment. One Sutra, maybe the Surangama, says love is the root of desire. So I have a feeling Christianized Westerners are translating metta as "love," as if it's the love of the Holy Spirit. I am tempted toward a construction of the love of the Holy Ghost as the root of attachment and thus suffering. I really have to work this out. Consider that the Greeks had 3 words for love, including agape and eros. We just say love. In Sanskrit it's Metta. It may not mean anything like Aphrodite's love, which is attachment
>>41980882*unable to
>>41980882Well, even that doesn't make that much sense because you can help your loved ones better as a powerful spirit than a human. What unfortunately seems more likely based on the NDE is that your personality changes when you die. Like, our human self is just a "puppet" and our Higher Self is more alien and autistic and values suffering for experience. I hope not, but NDEs make it seem that way.
>>41980824grief the pain of a change of identity.the meaning it has is the meaning you give it.Hopefully you grew as a person before the event, and hopefully you continue to grow after.The pain itself is the change of identity.That's all.
What if the "afterlife", is time travel?
Figuring out how to keep going when you have no one to keep going for is very hard, but I suppose necessary.
>>41980824> What "spiritual lesson" is taught by profound grief?Contrast of experience. Inevitable personal evolution. If you live long enough, balance will be restored but before it is, the pendulum will swing in the other direction and provide opposite emotions equal to the grief you felt. Keep your head up anon. If you think you’re about to lose your grip, tie a knot and hold on. It will balance out, it will get better.
>>41980850If there is a creator, he's evil or incompetent
>>41980824As a christian all it seems to have done for me is give me the assurance that my bond with God is ultimately stronger than the grief I thought would destroy it. I'm not out of the woods just yet, but I'm coming back to God little by little, trying to leave tragedy behind.Also it sort of takes away the constant fear thereof, the fear of losing the person you love the most because you cannot lose that person ever again.
>>41980824Why do you assume that you don't DESERVE to suffer grief?What makes you so great that everybody else can suffer but you're too special?
>>41983115My point was why does anyone have to suffer like this? Sounds like you have some serious problems to work through yourself. Be well.
>>41980824Why do you assume that there's a lesson to be learned?>>41980858Then why haven't you? >>41983069Based on what? >>41983121Suffering is a byproduct of individuated experiential agentic temporal existence.
>>41983156>Suffering is a byproduct of individuated experiential agentic temporal existence.Sorry but, not as it manifests here. These are very specific and unjustifiable acts of suffering that are being perpetrated upon others, they are not a given to being conscious.
>>41983115>deserveThis is literally social construct, no one deserves anything.
>>41980897I had a dream that a voice told me "some people choose to be tortured in this life so that they have an advantage in the afterlife" I also have been having really bizarre dreams lately and it makes me uncomfortable to think that that uncomfortable environment may be what the afterlife is like
Perhaps without loss, value cannot be comprehended, measured, appreciated.Perhaps love can only come after understanding loss?A mirror test in a sense...a go-nogo gauge Do you understand?Yes/No
>>41984299Sounds kind of manipulative right?
>>41980850Here's the truth they don't want to hear. NDE's are not glimpses of the afterlife. Once you understand that the rest will make sense.
>>41984372And what is a glimpse of the afterlife then?
>>41980886I tend to feel it points toward unconditional acceptance of truth and does not carry the explicitly positive, affectionate connotations attached to the word love that we use in english, even though it may also include that experience.
>>41983013>If you live long enough, balance will be restored but before it is, the pendulum will swing in the other direction and provide opposite emotions equal to the grief you felt.Why are you so sure things will get better over time?
>>41980824>>41980850 this. There is no point in the lessons. They know so fucking much that knowledge is fundamentally useless to them. They know SO MUCH that they can use what they know to formulate new information with 100% accuracy. This place is a factory farm.The real reason we feel grief is because we're social animals. You'll find grief in other social animals like crows, monkeys, dolphins, etc. A tribe works as a cohesive unit. We feel the suffering of losing someone in that unit as an incentive to try harder to keep our tribe alive, because evolution has decided we would do that or go extinct. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2KH5AoyeBcThis video brings me profound grief, because I put myself in the birds shoes. I'm the last of my species. When I die, everything we fought for will have been for nothing. I don't even know of my fate, I just keep calling for a lover that will never come.
>>41984445> I'm the last of my species. When I die, everything we fought for will have been for nothing. I don't even know of my fate, I just keep calling for a lover that will never come.No justice for that little bird. It was just a chess piece in a grand play. God not caring how the bird felt or what it meant to it. I hate it.
>>41984490Now imagine what was stolen from us. We were not always people. Everything I know tells me we are prisoners of war. This is not education, but reconditioning. They don't ask that you try to succeed them in greatness or benevolence, only that you follow orders without question.
>>41984433Nature maintains balance. When something becomes unbalanced, nature corrects. Just to reiterate, grief is only possible to perceive through contrast. If you feel grief, then eventually you will feel the opposite of that. But you have to hang in there and give nature a chance to do its thing.
>>41984372True, they're just one kind of experience after death, and there many.
>>41984607False. There is no experience after death.
>>41984362>Perhaps without loss, value cannot be comprehended, measured, appreciated.Not true, for reasons I already outlined in the OP
As usual godfags have no satisfying answers to tough questions
>>41980858Prisons and school serve the same purpose in society, what sets them apart is who it was made for
>>41980824Grief just is, a natural consequence of life. Asking "what is the point of grief" doesn't really make sense, it simply is. What you should be learning is how to deal with these facts for yourself.
https://perceiverations.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/numinous-way-pathei-mathos-v7.pdf
GriefIs a struggle for nessicity. Like the cycle in the seasonsDuring the winter. The cold sharpens your senses. But it can overtake you in hypothermia and frostbite. Things die back during the winter. Things sleep in the earth for warmer weather. Humans huddle together and practice gratitude. We examine what truly matters and what we truly value. And like great depressions grief gives us time to remember, internalize, think and ponder. The stages of grief are all just mindsets anyways. You don't bleed from your vagina, or develop hives when you are grieving. It's all mental.
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>>41983009>Figuring out how to keep going when you have no one to keep going forthere's a reason people who hit rock bottom get weird attachments to fictional characters.something heavy to chew on for a while.
>>41980824grief is the effect of "a loss", and the feeling of "loss" is the effect of an attachmentwe come on earth naked and we leave it the samethere is nothing in this world that is "ours" or owned by us, not even the fleshso i think the spiritual lesson would be to have no attachments of this world and to enjoy what we experience while we're hereenjoy the presence of "loved ones" while we can
>>41980824'Lessons' are just sociopathic gaslighting.Any lack of knowledge is an engineered constraint. It's false.
>>41988273and by lessons I mean when someone says 'This is all a school! :)'Of course, purposefully limiting knowledge in order to experience learning , for the sake of enjoyment, is valid.
>>41988276the REAL lesson is in subterfuge, deception, diversion, finding loopholes, and being a silly goose.if bad beings push bad, backwards, wrong morals coated in tooth-rotting, diabetes-causing --sugar-- *HFCS, then that would mean that bad guys push bad morals with destructive substances to make it go down easier, and you should throw their tables over and subvert all their plans.
>>41988276>Of course, purposefully limiting knowledge in order to experience learning , for the sake of enjoyment, is valid.Speak for yourself.
>>41984299>also have been having really bizarre dreams lately>it makes me uncomfortable to think that that uncomfortable environment may be what the afterlife is likeTell us more
>>41988285and deceiving others is very very fun
>>41980858I think the universe is a being, and it's examining itself via these meat sacks. It itself is trying to figure out what its purpose is, and this conversation is a part of that process too.
>>41988467duping delight outs them every single time. smart people are natural actors and know how to emote and control their own damn face muscles.turnabout is fair play!
>>41984575>If you feel grief, then eventually you will feel the opposite of that. But you have to hang in there and give nature a chance to do its thing.There are people who live their entire lives, taking cocaine, banging beautiful women (sometimes kids), and the most annoyance they'll ever experience is road rage or having to deal with an executive below them asking for advice. They randomly die in their sleep after the most pleasurable night of fucking and partying.Then there are people who are poor from the start, the only happiness they get is scraps of love from their abusive mother, her cooking when she bothers doing it, and they live the rest of their lives. Hollow, traumatized, disgusted at every waking moment, never able to achieve their dreams and just soulless trawling through a dead-end, miserable job where the boss abuses them and their body slowly breaks down. They get drunk sometimes, but it doesn't even feel good, just takes them away from all the suffering of their daily lives.Then they commit suicide. >If you feel grief, then eventually you will feel the opposite of that. Where's the contrast? Don't tell me you believe every human feels exactly the same amount of happiness and exactly the same amount of grief. This "fairness" bullshit is absolute cope.I'm not saying this because I'm miserable, but because I'm privileged. There are PEOPLE WHO ARE BORN TO BE SEX SLAVES ON JEFFREY EPSTEIN'S ISLAND. Are you telling me they're experiencing enough happiness to counteract all that grief, that their lives are equally as good as mine?
>>41980824The mechanics of the universe is change. Everything is energy and energy can't be destroyed only change form. The dead and decaying provide nutrition for the living. You feel grief and resentment towards this system because you don't accept the nature of impermanence and have attachments to certain things, but there's a quadrillion things experiencing the same change that you don't care about.If there wasn't death the world would be overpopulated not just by humans, but all living beings would keep reproducing. I guess you solution would be to put a limit on existing beings.
>>41988295You're still seeing it as way too serious with that image.I mean more in a gamey way. Like rolling an alt on an MMO. It's a game.
Christ on the cross and Buddha's trauma are enlightenment stories showing us that the world is fallen but in seeing the corruption we are able to see more clearly what we have fallen from. Life is an endurance test to see how much peace and grace we can hold onto despite the entropy.
