Why isn't shinto mentioned as much as other religions? What's their deal?
>>42129252Because it's an ethnic religion and most people are not of japanese blood, speak japanese fluently or live in Japan.
>>42129252The main problem with shinto is language barrier. There's many concepts that just don't translate well to other language. Plus other faiths just don't have the same concepts, which leads to false equivalencies. This plus most people just not wanting to put in the effort results in a huge lack of Shinto outside of Japan.The easiest and most glaring one I can think of? Kami.Kami are not gods. They are not "spirits", either. They are immortal beings with various levels of power. Kami may be made of elements or energy, but are still considered alive. Kami both preside over and derive power from the things they are associated with. For example, the kami of a mountain represents the mountain, draws power from the mountain, protects the mountain, and embodies the mountain. The greater kami are not "gods". They are just extremely powerful kami that often are very old. They are worshipped, feared, and loved as protectors and masterful wielders of their particular domains. People turn to them because they hope that someone wiser and better at it than they are can help out in ways they couldn't do otherwise. The weakest kami are often labeled as other things so people don't get even more confused than they already were. Sometimes they were openly called kami once then slowly downgraded. Especially powerful "yokai" are often downgraded lesser kami. Yeah... it only get harder from there. I've been trying to study and understand for years and I'm still not that great at explaining it. I feel like I probably did a bad job. But at least I hope it gives some idea of the level of different we are talking about here.
>>42129291Do you think it would be appropriate for a monotheistic japanese to use the name Kami for God? Or is Heavens/Ten used plenty for good reason
>>42129291I'm not sure I understand the difference. This is covered by mountain deities, river deities, keepers of the forest, etc. It's basic animism, no?
>>42129301If you are monothiestic, just use the name of whoever you worship. Ten is more of a generalization, IMHO, sort of like saying "heavenly ones". >>42129321It is animism in that the kami often are used to represent specific things. That said, it is not the kind of animism where you are literally worshipping a river, mountain, or other thing. Each kami has a very specific thing they are attached to. There are greater kami that can direct the lesser ones, but worshipping that "leader" kami is not the same as calling on a deity that governs all of a thing. The leader tends to direct and enforce lesser as well as having final say over the lesser. Example: a specific river has it's specific kami. If you want influence from that river, call on that river's kami. You can call on greater river kami Kahaku if the kami of your chosen river has chosen not to hear you. It's sort of like calling the manager when the shop keeper is ignoring you. Or, you can call on Kahaku if you are crossing multiple smaller rivers and wish to appeal to all their kami. But if you only worship Kahaku, you aren't also worshipping the other river kami, as he is not all the kami or all the rivers. He's just the leader.
Spiritually I think I'm shinto. Religions are about where your soul vibrates at and that one comes the closest.
>>42129252Shinto? More like Shit-o.
>>42129252Just play touhou and you’ll understand everything about eastern religion
>>42129252It's pretty Japan-centrc. You can't exactly worship the kami of Japan from Ohio, they're primarily local spirits.
>>42129405But that doesn't seem different from normal animistic practices as far as I know. With land features in particular there are separate deities or spirits (the line is often blurry), named or unnamed, associated with them, especially rivers (like Potamoi in Hellenism), and though there may be a governing deity above them, they are not viewed as parts of it, but rather subjects or offspring. There's a similar dynamic with lesser spirits in the land deity's domain: they're their own entities, even if below the ruler. Maybe I misunderstand the issue.
>>42129252it's a state martial religion. it's basically a heirarchy that justifies itself. it's like judaism but less evil. it doesn't really get proliferated much because the western powers won WW2, and they instituted a massively successful psyop to remove their legitimized forms of in group selection and organization.
>>42130153You get exposed to shinto through games and anime. You just don't know it's shinto inspired. Pokemon is shinto.
>>42129252fake religion fabricated after meiji "restoration".imagine if made a religion based on the brothers grimm and weird little folk traditions and said adolf hitler was a god - that's basically what shinto is. a religion to justify miitary expansion by the uniqueness of japanese people. buddhism, the then religion of japanese people was deemed foreign and chinese.
>>42129252They're not a retarded cult actively looking for followers. It just a philosophy more than a religious cult.
>>42130185Folk tales and traditions are vestiges of shamanism, and most, if not all religions contain vestiges of shamanic belief and even practice. Same goes for Divine kingship, which is as ancient as civilization. Not to say Shinto isn't artificial though.
>>42130158Good thing I know to separate fiction from reality
>>42129252Shinto followers don’t try to spread it. There’s no incentive to. Nobody’s soul is in danger. At the most they will probably just ask you to show respect to their sacred locations and shrines which are all located in Japan. There’s no advantage to simply believing it either. You can do rituals for good luck or avoid things that might offend the kami or corrupt yourself but it doesn’t change your afterlife like the mainstream ones. Most of the soul and philosophy-related parts of Japanese religion are from Buddhism, which people often believe alongside Shinto but it’s not Shinto. Even the people in charge of taking care of the shrines, conducting rituals and such mostly pass the job down through their bloodlines, and the average person who goes to the shrine has very little knowledge of what it’s about other than some well-known myths and superstitions. I’ve heard some Japanese people say that even though they’ve been going to shrines their whole lives they didn’t know the term “Shinto” or see themselves as following a particular religion until learning about religions like Christianity and Islam in high school.
>why isn't the japanese nationalist blood and soil cult popular outside japan What part of "land/blood of the gods" did you not understand?
>>42129252Probably because it's become almost completely syncretized with buddhism and it's hard to separate the two. Shrines, customs and aesthetics still remain, along with the veneration of kami, but buddhism is the primary belief and shinto is more like extra flavor. Shinto does have a pantheon of gods, but it's more like animism. Personally I really like shinto but I could do without the extra buddhist junk attached to it.
>>42130185>imagine if made a religion based on the brothers grimm and weird little folk traditions and said adolf hitler was a godThat's most online pagans.
>>42131923case in point
It’s a looping religion, that’s why they gatekeep it, and why they don’t vilify suicide. (they know they’re going to reset or reroll).
>>42131817It needs buddhism to complete it because shinto doesn't have reincarnation.
From my limited knowledge I see it now as a remix of daoist rituals and confucianism (seeing man as good natured) but without its philosophical bases so they had to let buddhism fill it in.Then the neoconfucian nationalists in the Meiji era tried to purge it from foreign elements and make it a state religion
>>42132111>It needs buddhism to complete it because shinto doesn't have reincarnation.Reincarnation is a stupid idea, I don't know why this board is so obsessed with the concept
>>42130865> Thinks gods obey human constructs like national boundaries > Thinks things that predate the idea of "bloodlines" follow bloodlines rules> Fell for the "special bloodlines" nonsense> Thinks gods reject people based on how they lookGo back to /pol/
>>42132353Kamis aren't gods and more often than not are bound to local places and concepts as the other anon explained, in an island that has been ethnically homogeneous for centuries
It's Japanese paganism. Most of us are not Japanese. Shintoism is interesting because it's an unbroken pagan tradition with a large following which isn't Indian, but still, we are not Japanese.
>>42131817>but I could do without the extra buddhist junk attached to itBased.
>>42132490aren't they basically tulpas?
>>42132353Core parts of the shinto mythology don't magically disappear just because they offend you
>>42132848Adding random Western bloodline and location stuff doesn't make it part of the religion.
>>42132913>imperial mythology is western because feelzNo
>>42132976> Country outside of Asia> EasternAsia = east. Everything else = West. You are Western.
>>42131923>>42131988I suppose one could see it as a continuation of the hero veneration that is common in old paganism. Won't lie when I say I went through a "Hitler is an avatar of Wuotan" phase at one point, but you (hopefully) grow past that. My religious/spiritual practice/beliefs is much more authentic to who I am as a person and largely separate from politics nowadays.
>>42132103> they don’t vilify suicideThat's true. Infanticide was also not vilified until more recent times. Babies were thought to be very close to the other side. So, if a baby dies, it just goes back home. Nothing is wrong. > It’s a looping religionThat's Buddhism. There's probably some mixing due to Buddhism taking over, but I don't think Shinto itself is really a looping religion.
>>42133005You not having heard the phrase "land of the gods" in relation to japan nor knowing the claimed celestial descent of the imperial bloodline and by extension the japanese people within shinto mythology isnt my fault you mental midget
>>42133233> "Land of the Gods"Western mistranslation> celestial descent of the imperial bloodlineThis was added later and very debated even at the time. Of course nobody would say anything because you don't upset the emperor.> by extension the japanese peopleThe reason rulers claim divinity is so they can pretend to be higher than regular people. I'm sorry you have been corrupted by Western thought and adhere so strongly to Abrahamic doctrine where it's all blood and soil.
>>42129252The theology behind Shinto was mostly embeded with Buddhism.That is to say, do you know how many Pagans in the west attatch themselves to Platonism? It's because Platonism provides a philosophical, theological, way to structure the religion, as well as giving it a more defined ends.Buddhism is like Platonism, it is a meta-religion. So when Shinto got forcefully separated from Buddhism there was suddenly not a lot to grasp into, beyond a vague harmony seeking behaviour, which is healthy and natural in all true religions.But it's really not something you can actually have debates on. Shinto is better experienced on practical terms.
>>42129252Because it's just animism + polytheism but ~japanese~. I like it, it's the most living form of paganism (without being overtaken by streetshitters) and an accessible form of shamanism, and it should be studied by western pagans as a guideline of how our ancestors used to view their own world. I'm sure there are similarities that have been lost in the west.
>>42132353If you spend your life specializing in your own line of dogs, to the point your dogs are tailored to you and you work fairly symbiotically, then no, you are not going to give a shit about the pit bulls everyone keeps telling you are basically the same as your pedigree border collie/gsd/samoyed/whatever highly efficient working breed you've been tailored to work with. If a pit bull comes along and works the same as the others, that's tolerated sure, but it's really just a freebie to use and abuse rather than a new investment.
>>42129291>Kami both preside over and derive power from the things they are associated with. For example, the kami of a mountain represents the mountain, draws power from the mountain, protects the mountain, and embodies the mountainThis concept has always stuck with me from Mushishi, and after a strange encounter almost a decade ago I assume they're real, even in the west.
>>42133895Me, too. I think kami are everywhere. Every country has kami. It's just that people either call them other things or don't realize they're around.
>>42133298>anything that hurts my feefees is a mistranslation>state shinto isn't shinto because feelingsI get that you're emotionally invested but damn
>>42134183Would you happen to know how to properly pray to and 'support' a kami/mountain? The one in my area was super old, its very movement was labored and I was struck with as much pity as awe. Even if it died of natural causes, I'd like to offer whatever help I can to my region to keep it and the next lord going, in spite of the urban buildup and overpopulation. It's always been a strange place and I'd like to help protect it.The one I saw was an ancient elk, even though they were hunted out of my state ~200 years ago. It was covered in long, thick, shaggy strands of fur, and it was all white-gray with moss growing around shoulders, flanks etc. The rack was huge, no way it was a deer. It was taller than my car. But it walked with its head bowed, hardly any strength in him, crossed the street in front of me, and disappeared behind some condos in broad daylight, early winter.
>>42129522Dirty gaijin shut up
>>42129252I have been practicing Shinto for a long time and I notice people become aggressive / agitated when they see I am a Shintoist and that I follow Christ, they think it's a contradiction because they think I'm a Catholic who worships a book.
>>42136843Nta but these methods may be found with some research on your local area. Think archives, museums, academic research involving local customs. You could expand this to more recent accounts from the modern locals who actually do (consciously or unconsciously) animism in some form, which could be certain types of outdoorsmen, magicians, larpagans, shamans, random hikers, rangers, and others. In more direct ways you could go to the mountain and live on it. Observe it, how the land around it breathes and moves, and how the mountain directs that movement, how birds and animals migrate, what grows there. Meditate, record your dreams and observations, simply talk to it and to what lives on it - barring direct communication through visionary (astral) and means and divination that's how the ancients would do things. If you know how your attention forms and moves you'll know when you get a response to base further communication off - these things are subtle, yet evident when you filter out the internal clutter.Also keep in mind that sacrifices and libations, while common, may be a crutch - something done by permanent settlers as a tax for disrupting the land, a more convenient way of placating the local divinity. Going litter picking may be a better way of signaling your intentions.
>>42131923Just a vocal minority, most pagans online and IRL are new age queer types.
>>42129291And that's not even getting into the amatsukami/kunitsukami divide, or edge practices like Izanagi-ryu.
>>42139256Yeah, that's the two types of pagans.Hippies larping, and nazis larping.
>>42132103It is weird how they just suicide over relatively mundane things. They probably do loop to an extent.
>>42129252I find Shinto to be an especially effective perspective when working with electronics or other creative processes.When your project is perceived to have a soul of sorts, it becomes a sort of passive ritual where your surroundings reflect your state of being.I still have a long way to go on mastering my environment, but having a few consciously produced/placed items around really helps to instill a sense of purpose.
>>42131817It's kind of weird, but Buddhism is the thing with big flashy buildings that moves a lot of money and Shinto is the shrines you find in nearly every house that are well-cared for and have incense and offerings. At first glance Shinto is legit. Plus it's true Japan has a fuckton of actual spirits that aren't shy to show up.
>>42133233interesting digits there. and this trickle-down incarnation of divinity into flesh isn't limited to only japan, either.
>>42129252Its just an ethnic form of animism as far as I am aware. Its only really practiced by the Japanese. Many other nations and ethnic groups have forms of animism though, and there are a few similarities between them and Shintoism.
>>42133895>This concept has always stuck with me from MushishiDon't often hear people bring that show up, it's extremely underrated>I assume they're real, even in the west.When people think of "kami" they tend to think of gods and goddesses, like Izanagi or Amaterasu. But "kami" is simply a catch-all term for any sort of spirit, whether it's a deity or a simple tree spirit. >>42134183>Every country has kami. It's just that people either call them other things or don't realize they're around.That last part is especially true. Modern civilization has made humans become detached from nature and from spirituality as a whole. Our souls have become dulled and most people have lost the ability to even sense these spirits. Modern scientific dogma is focused purely on the material and is extremely opposed to the concept of the supernatural. The dualism of Abrahamic religions has also done a lot of damage, because ANYTHING that isn't "God" or an angel is immediately seen as demonic.
>>42139316That shit pisses me off so much. The word "pagan" already had negative connotations because Christians demonized and persecuted other belief systems for 1300 years. And now on top of all that, the word "pagan" is associated with larping faggots and feminist wiccans.
>>42142800>The word "pagan" already had negative connotations because Christians demonized and persecuted other belief systemsWell...that's kinda your fault for adopting a term that started with the meaning "the nonChristian bullshit the rural peasants do".It's like calling your religion Superstitionism and getting mad when people say it's just a bunch of superstitions.
>>42136843I'd try to restore as much natural balance to the area to help protect the kami. Plant native plants. replace your lawn with native groundcover or, if that's not an option, clover if you can. Try to assure the ancient one has access to clean water by cleaning up any wild water sources around you like streams or springs. Things like this restore the energies of the place as well as providing support to the living creatures in the area. If you want to make a shrine to the elk, choose a place you have seen it go to but try to avoid it's home. If you or anyone around you can feel energies, you can use that to pinpoint a place where the elk's energy is stronger. That said, elk, deer, and other cervids are often messengers of the kami. The ancient elk may be sent from the land itself or a kami in your area. I'd either pray and look for signs for who the kami is, or create a shrine to the major feature of the area you live in. It might be more appropriate than a shrine to the elk itself.
>>42132353>Thinks gods reject people based on how they look>thinks race is appearanceIf the only difference between Asians and Africans and Euros was aesthetic, we'd have conquered the universe by now.
>>42129252>Why isn't shinto mentioned as much as other religionsBecause even japnese don't give a shit about it, majority of japan is non religious. Shinto myths are just fairy tales to them that they abandon upon reaching adult hood like santa and the tooth fairy.
>>42143256>If the only difference between Asians and Africans and Euros was aesthetic, we'd have conquered the universe by now.You're right: all of this fighting because someone's skin looks different is a huge waste of time that has been draining resources for hundreds of years. We must bring harmony and spread food, medicine, and education globally in equal measure so all may work towards the stars!Oh wait... you were implying the same hundreds of years of nonsense that is keeping mankind from any sort of real progress. Never mind.
>>42129252>Why isn't shinto mentioned as much as other religions?If this this thread is any hint, it's because the Shinto threads don't have many people who know what they're talking about. The threads are then derailed by stupid arguments and people saying "you can't Shinto if not Japanese in Japan".
>>42139220>litter Yeah that's an obvious one I never even considered, next time I'm out I'll look around for junk I can clean up. I've just been offering tea and smoke to local spirits, but that's mostly in my grounds because we upset whatever is there so thoroughly and permanently. This area is also super urban despite the mountains and woods it's nestled in; even the oldfags that I've gotten tidbits from are kind of disconnected, and they're all run of the mill christian boomers who would laugh at these concepts if I pressed them for more. They believe in ghosts, but that's about all they admit to. And the townsfolk themselves are 'off' in a general sense, they'd give Twin Peaks and Gravity Falls people a run for their money, and I'd hate to get caught in the woods alone with any random hikers because they're definitely aberrant if they're in the wilderness alone.I can honestly say I've tried listening for spirits in the area, but I may not have tried hard and long enough, or I may have been too far from the mountain to reach that one specifically, when I tried. I'll try again next time I'm /out/.It's a truly odd place, a thin spot in the veil that attracts all sorts of strangeness, but anyone passing through would never know it from the bustling small town vibe.>>42142990This all makes sense too. I haven't seen the elk again, but there was a herd of whitetail bucks that were old as fuck since people couldn't hunt them within town limits, and they seem to have all disappeared over the years. I always associated him with them, and them with the ancient strength of the land. There actually are major natural features here. Besides the mountain, we have a strong river and two sets of falls. I work right in the middle of it all, like some sort of small-town bermuda triangle hotspot.Would the shrine need to be outdoors, in the vicinity of the target? Or are talking about an indoor shrine like for a household?
Asian religions are just propaganda Christianity and Catholicism are the only true religions
Avatars never die, they awaken in the least suspected places. Maybe (you) are one. Maybe I am too? Maybe we'll meet as allies on the battlefield. Wouldn't that make the Jews cope and seethe!https://youtu.be/fmUDr2DO2is
>>42143305Disregarding the myths, I would argue that any jap that believes in the kami living in objects or local nature and in the power that the rituals hold is a shinto believer, e.g. Tanabata festivals
>>42130158Pokemon represent tard boy slaves.
>>42140618Cars have a lot in common with the human body. I think they are soul stealers. That at speed, reality blurs between car and driver.
>>42143775>I think they are soul stealers. That at speed, reality blurs between car and driver.The idea that cars "steal" souls is ridiculous. However, the reality blurring is a real phenomenon, it's called highway hypnosis and it's a form of dissociation.
>>42143670Shrines can be either. Outdoor ones closer to the energy and near places of power or sacred things/places are naturally going to be more powerful than ones inside of a house. Either is stronger than nothing.
>paganism>paganism: japan
>>42129291It's literally animism. But incredibly well preserved even after being colonized by Empire. That's why they fear the samurai.
>>42143670>I can honestly say I've tried listening for spirits in the area, but I may not have tried hard and long enoughIt's difficult to explain. It's not about trying. Train the faculties, mostly through training awareness and detached observation, then talk to whatever you intend to talk to (not necessarily 'the spirit', maybe you're talking to 'the forest'), then relax. Maybe meditate beforehand. Trying creates expectations, it generates unnecessary noise that makes listening harder. There are simple meditative exercises. such as diaphragmatic breathing, focusing and unfocusing. Look at how your attention moves. It should come without strain. Being generally healthy also helps hone the senses. Stretching, sleep, maybe a lighter diet, maybe a full fast before going on a hike.The more you understand the times you use the subtle sense without deliberation, the more you should be able to use it deliberately. If you have a pet, you probably engage in subtle communication often, so that's another good point of observation.Another method is visionary, which is a softer type of astral projection, though it requires more effort, and I've heard it could be dangerous. It still relies on your subtle faculties, so it should be trained alongside general awareness. It's similar to yoga nidra, but with a different scope and intention. It is trained by first moving your imaginary body around memories (old memories, then new memories), then around the house, then going outside. You should be able to maintain focus and a somewhat clear picture, though senses other than visual could come into play. Be wary that there are, especially nowadays, lower demonic spirits who'd love nothing more than to play along with your expectations, therefore discretion is advised. On top of that, from what I've heard deity contact using this method could be dangerous to unprepared individuals due to the power involved.
Shinto animism is the direct opposite of Scientology and the median between them is memetics.
>>42132227 Bigoted ‘Christcuckery In Action!’
>>42134579State Shinto was deprecated after WWII.
Shintoism is just Hinduism for normies with Buddhist aesthetics
>>42144138Paganism: japan has more recorded for us to go off of and living practitioners to go to for experiencr, unless you think we should trust xer MoonDancer's opinions on what pagans thought 1000 years ago.
>>42144005I'll have to figure something out, since most of the areas I can 'sense' its energy in are either spots I can't access, or places that are too trafficked and will get fucked with by the local youths. At the very least I can make a small shrine inside my private locker until I find a suitable spot outdoors.>>42144191I appreciate this explanation and will cap it for future reference. What I meant by try was really more that I haven't dedicated the appropriate time to it. I'm not terribly inexperienced in this regard, as previous attempts connected me to a local dead girl who I assume has become connected to the land and river via her hauntings, as well as a PIE goddess that I haven't found to have any evident ties to in this place. I definitely won't try the visionary stuff regarding this, as there are too many angered or seemingly malevolent beings in the area. I fell out of practice with both /x/ and exercise the past few years and am regretting it all fall to the wayside.
>>42142865It was a mildly prejorative term for "weird bullshit the peasants do outside of the orthodoxy of state religion" even before christianity became the default >>42145024Doesn't matter. State shinto is the only shinto. Getting buck broken by the americans doesnt change the fact that prior to the establishment of the modern imperial cult japanese religion didnt use the name "shinto" or the two written histories foundational to shinto beliefs.
>>42145143>Shintoism is just Hinduism for normies with Buddhist aestheticsWut? Shintoism is just animism that eventually incorporated a pantheon of deities due to Chinese influence, and then later on Buddhism fused with Shinto. It wasn't until "State Shinto" that the pantheon became super important. This was partly to legitimize the royal family as having divine right to rule, but it was also an attempt at purging Buddhism from the religion. Unfortunately, that didn't really work.
>>42129291Eh... I think it's super fair to just call kamis gods and yokais demons. Most people will understand.
>>42129301>Do you think it would be appropriate for a monotheistic japanese to use the name Kami for God?They do that all the time, but in fact zealous monotheistic Japanese will tend to use a more specific term for their God, especially since Kami can be ambiguously plural too. (Japanese Christians tend to prefer Shu "Lord" for example)Without context, Westerners often translate Kami as capital G "God" even when there's no reason to assume the speaker is monotheistic let alone an Abrahamic believer, probably for familiarity, but in fact it's usually intended as "gods" or "whatever god may be listening">Or is Heavens/Ten used plenty for good reasonThat usage is totally archaic nowadays (and very Chinese, so mostly seen in Buddhism)
>>42132353>>42133298>gods obey human constructs like national boundaries Of course not, they obey geological boundaries, especially when geological features are their literal bodies.>bloodlinesJapanese mythology and society placed a strong emphasis on the descent of the gods and the humans supposedly descended, much like the ancient Greeks did for that matter.Special bloodlines (attributed sacred status, duties and powers) long predated the meiji period, it's pretty common in Northeast Asian shamanism in general.>Thinks gods reject people based on how they lookNah, they reject them based on how they smell.
>>42147436Not all Kami are automatically nice to humans. Not all Yokai are evil. Some kami look like western demons, but aren't evil. And some yokai look like puss in boots (pic related). The closest thing to demons are probably oni, which definitely are not kami and some people think are their own thing, not yokai.
>>42145764>previous attempts connected me to a local dead girl who I assume has become connected to the land and river via her hauntingsThat's pretty cool. My first spirit contact was me being guided to the grave I was looking for. It was very sudden and I had to cut through thick undergrowth to get there.>I definitely won't try the visionary stuff regarding thisIt is useful nonetheless. Visionary work is not dangerous by itself, but there are dangers when doing it, mostly mild. You'd be interacting with minor demons and disgruntled spirits either way by virtue of attempting spirit contact in a parasited region. I'll add that lower demons absolutely love shrines and will not miss a chance to infest them, so considering the instability of your general area it wouldn't hurt to do further research on shrines and religious spaces as well. While I'm sure there are writings peculiar to Shinto and similar traditions, it may be worth looking into other religions, at least for general knowledge. Look for things like consecration, ritual purification, maintenance.
>>42147889one of the anons described kami as egregores does that go for yokai and oni if not whats the diffrence and if kami arent gods what are the gods of shinto
