File: 328d01d622065b4de85dd6da7(...).jpg (68 KB, 539x764)

68 KB JPG

ahhhh

>>42196682
None.

>>42196682
My thoughts in this episode is that it reveils how unfair God is. Because everyone says that God is fair and just and all that good stuff. But in this scenario an innocent man died to pay for the crimes of guilty men. So this means that justice was not served. An innocent died. How is this fair or just? Then the chrsitians will start with the apologetics and the excuses, but the fact remains and the bible brags about it, that Jesus was innocent and died for us. An innocent man died. This is key. How can God be fair if Jesus died? This signals that God is not fair or tis signals that God was the one who fucked up so He had to sacrifice His own son to make things right. Like, God knew he fucked up. THis is the case because this contradicts everything that the christians clai. They claim that God is fair, but God was not fair in this case. They say that God loved the sinners more than the just man and then God punishes the just man to forgive the sinners. Like, if a human being did this then people would revolt and riot. But because God is the one doing it then people don't complain and people think it's right. It's pure hypocrisy. The cross signals how much God failled. The cross signals how much God is not fair and how much God screwed up Creation by being a bad ruler.

>>42196682
We know that the concept of sin transference in Christianity is valid. God is apparently willing to accept an arbitrary animal sacrifice in lieu of any kind of genuine repentance. So if he really wants to forgive all sins he could arbitrarily decide that one chicken is enough for all of mankind. Or go just one step further and just arbitrarily forgive all sins without any sacrifice at all. I mean shit if some dick wrongs me and later comes and says "look, sorry man" I'm not gonna demand that he sacrifice his pet to me, am I? Or, he could stop being a fucking Karen and stop crying about me touching my pee pee like some anal retentive. I'm not a fucking sinner. I sit on my ass and play videogames all day, I don't do shit to anyone. Basically I guess what I'm trying to say is the whole sacrifice things seems to be pointless nonsense and therefore it's probably not true.

Also the whole Barabas thing. This is the Roman empire we're talking about here. These guys were civilization builders. You could spend coin you made in Rome all the way away in Britain, Asia, Africa. They had aqueducts, they had laws. These were not stupid people. A judge would not offer to release an active terrorist to a deranged mob. Stupid.

>>42196695
Read the old testament to find out how evil your god is.

>>42196695
Well perhaps if you studied St. Anselm you would have found your answer. Christ died in an act of willful supererogation. It was an act of perfect, complete, and righteous obedience on his part, beyond the call of duty, in order that grace might super-abound to all who believe in him (Romans 5:18-21). Christ took it upon himself, for which reason God highly exalted him (Philippians 2:9-11), that the gifts and rewards he merited on the cross might instead be transferred to anyone who unites themselves to him in baptism.

Posting in jesuit tripe thread.

>>42196735
I don't own any god, what are you taking about?

>>42196740
Nepotism. God exalts Himself in the form of His ow Son. Pure nepotism of the highest order. This guy is one example of a christian who is trying to give excuses and justify God's injustices. He is what we all here a golem. Observe this specimen well, see how it behaves and how it clinges to a fake authority and has to resource to shaming and appeal to authrority.

>>42196750
NTA
If someone says "your god, your king, your master, etc." the use of the possessive "your" is not indicating ownership but allegiance.
Now that I have out-autismed you, are you ready to stop pretending to be retarded?

>>42196740
God is a being of infinite power. Already overflowing with infinite abundance. If he wants to give away his magic joo joo then just... do that. Why create hoops to jump through?

>>42196767
Never. I follow no God, dude. Stop assuming things about others or at least assume things that can be assumed, like when you call me a retarded. That's always safe to assume. But don't assume that I follow any deity, but myself. Fuck you.

>>42196730
>God is apparently willing to accept an arbitrary animal sacrifice in lieu of any kind of genuine repentance.
Not true at all. One of the reasons the sacrifices in the Tanakh stop being efficacious is due to lack of faithfulness to his covenant,
"For if thou hadst desired sacrifice, I would indeed have given it: with burnt offerings thou wilt not be delighted.
A sacrifice to God is an afflicted spirit: a contrite and humbled heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
(Psalm 51:16-17, DRB)
Yom Kippur would be an exception to this, but this may be because it was a collective atonement for the entire land, the goal of the ritual being to cleanse the Most Holy Place. It was necessary to ensure the purity of the Temple, lest the divine presence depart from the sanctuary. It actually offered a chance each year for those who had committed intentional sins to restart as well.
>So if he really wants to forgive all sins he could arbitrarily decide that one chicken is enough for all of mankind.
No. Not how this works. It would not even come close to meeting the obligation, the duty, we have, as rational creatures, to render God due service. This is why the incarnation of Jesus was necessary. Only one who possesses the divine nature could actually repair what was lost in the fall, otherwise everything else falls short. Jesus, who shares the same nature as God, could accomplish this feat.
"For it is impossible that with the blood of oxen and goats sin should be taken away."
(Hebrews 10:7)

>>42196730
>Or go just one step further and just arbitrarily forgive all sins without any sacrifice at all.
But man was a debtor to God, and God who is just cannot simply ignore this. At the same time, however, God, who is also good, found a way to bridge the gap between his Goodness and Justice, whereby the sacrifice of Jesus Christ takes place and atonement is put into effect.
>Injustice, therefore, if it is cancelled by compassion alone, is more free than justice, which seems very inconsistent. And to these is also added a further incongruity, viz., that it makes injustice like God. For as God is subject to no law, so neither is injustice.
(Cur Deus Homo I.12)
>I mean shit if some dick wrongs me and later comes and says "look, sorry man" I'm not gonna demand that he sacrifice his pet to me, am I?
But you would demand he make some kind of restitution, no? How could justice be satisfied if he did not make amends of some sort? Depending on what he did to you, you may indeed desire sacrifices of sorts, like compensation.

>>42196682
He probably was a historical person, but that's it. I support some of the morals of the church but a lot of it is too harsh and stigmatizes people who make mistakes.

If forgiveness is to dedicate your life to god while bearing a fucking cross, it's not much forgiveness in my opinion.

The crucifixion was the definitive hinge point of world history. Literally the crux. On this day in 33ad death itself was defeated.

The War was won almost 2,000 years.

Thats the Good News!

> Deus Fit Homo Ut Homo Fieret Deus

>>42196811
>But man was a debtor to God, and God who is just cannot simply ignore this
Typical jewish behaviour. This guy is basically saying that humanity has a debit with God and God can not simply ignore this debit. But why? Why can't God ignore a debt? Why can't God just forgive the debit? I mean, if you are in debit with me what is stoping me from forgiving you, but my own love for money or my own self interest or my own selfishness or my own whatever? Let's remember that the monotheist folks claim that God is all powerful so it's not like if God does not forgive the debt He will starve to death or not be able to feed his children because he live in a world where money is necessary and that sort of thing. No, God is above all of this that limits us so why can't he simply forgive our sins? Why does Gpd has to make an spectacle of the whole thing? Make an innocent person die? Because this whole story is fake! When will you people realize that christianity is just another religion and religion are used to control the masses? Religion give answers to tough questions, religion gives meaning to people's lives, to people who are dumb and are scared of the unknown, people who want to feel secure and safe. It's all so tiresome. We try to help humanity, but you guys keep spreading your mind virus and keep making it hard for people to realize the truth. You guys are not helping at all. Stop making noise. Shut the fuck up. If you can only point towards dogmas then shut the fuck up. You don't have authority anymore. We don't live in the stone age anymore, the time where you cold control people with religion. We are aware, we know better than that already. Fuck you and shut up. Let the real human beings talk, if you are a golem jsut shut up. Because you have nothing of vallue to offer, only empty dogmas which have no value actually they have negative vallue, they are worst than having no vallue, they are negative, they take away from the whole..

>>42196988
>Why can't God ignore a debt?
This was explained to you above. If God ignored the debt we owe to him, this would be a violation of justice, and therefore God would be unjust, and thus not really God at all. God is Justice itself, he cannot be unjust.

>Why can't God just forgive the debit?
But he does. This is the point I've been trying to explain to you. God, who is just, cannot simply ignore the debt we owe to him, as explained above. At the same time, God, who is good and merciful, wills our salvation. Therefore, through the incarnation, God demonstrates his own Goodness by coming and satisfying the debt we owe. He is able to effectively cancel it. It is precisely the incarnation that we see God's Justice and his Goodness actually bridged (not that they were ever opposed). Jesus Christ came out of a voluntary act of love. He died the death he did to demonstrate his own love for us, as St. Paul tells us.

>:)

>>42197210
>owe a debt to god
Never signed any contract or made any agreement with gid. Invalid.
>the debt had to be paid
Chickens and goats can pay the debt. Go ahead and take some chicken out of my freezer if it'll stop your whining, no need to nail your son go a piece of wood.

>>42197210
>This was explained to you above
Negative.

>If God ignored the debt we owe to him, this would be a violation of justice, and therefore God would be unjust, and thus not really God at all.
Let me see if I got this right. So in order for God to be just or act according to the principle wich we call justice God had to make an innocent man (Jesus) pay for the crimes of the guilty men (mankind, us)? So God had to act not according to the definition of justice in order to be just? What the fuck are you saying, man? Can you see how your argument is a dogma and makes no sense? You are saying that God is "just" or "fair" because he made an innocent person be executed.

>God is Justice itself, he cannot be unjust.
Really? Can you signal this then? Or are you talking out of your ass? Dude, shut up. Don't act as if you know the truth when you are spreading such stupid ass dogmas. You don't know shit.

>>42197251
No but don't you see? It isn't "just" to just shrug and laugh and forgive and forget, god must wheedle and connive for every last penny like a shifty jew, otherwise the universe would implode.

>>42197230
>Never signed any contract or made any agreement with gid. Invalid.
God is the creator and sustainer of your existence. You owe him a debt of honor, even as you owe your parents honor for generating and raising you, or your country honor for being your homeland.
>So in order for God to be just or act according to the principle wich we call justice God had to make an innocent man (Jesus) pay for the crimes of the guilty men (mankind, us)?
It is the way in which God voluntarily chose to redeem us, as an act of love. It is simply a consequence of his nature as a loving God, to demonstrate love for us. St. Anselm explains,
"God the Father did not treat that man as you seem to suppose, nor put to death the innocent for the guilty. For the Father did not compel him to suffer death, or even allow him to be slain, against his will, but of his own accord he endured death for the salvation of men."
(Cur Deus Homo I.8)
You seem to be confusing the penal substitutionary model of atonement with the model I am proposing, which is the more primitive satisfaction model of atonement. You need to learn theology 101.

>>42196682
epic
a sign of obedience
a sign we were not ready to hear the truth

I don't think he died on the cross. he feigned it when they stabbed him, which is honestly really badass

>>42197330
>your country honor for being your homeland.
What a fucking golem, this guy is!! Wow, man. I'm from Brazil and this place is fucking corrupt to the fucking core. Honor this shit hole of a country which never really gave me oportunities like a first world country would? Man, you just made yourself look even dumber if that was even possible. We have zero obligations which this shit ass of a reality. I have no obligation to honor this shit ass of a joke of a country. The politicians and the free mason scum at the top can go to Hell. And before this you said:

>You owe him a debt of honor, even as you owe your parents honor for generating and raising you,
Dude, you must be new here to be talking like this. You must be a newbie. Who the fuck who you think you are to say what we should be doing? You have zero authroity here, man. Shut the fuck up. Spare everyone here from your nonsense. Nobody asked to be here. We have zero obligations to honor anyine, but ourselves. Fuck you. You can be a golem if you want, but don't talk that nonsense around us. We won't tolerate that BS. We will call you out every single time because the truth is on our side. Your mind virus one day will be erased and eliminated. One day mankind will be trully free from your lame ass dogmas and influence.

File: Screenshot_20260402-132859.png (1.69 MB, 1007x1008)

1.69 MB PNG

>>42196682
I prefer his Renaissance artwork.

>>42197550
>I'm from Brazil and this place is fucking corrupt to the fucking core.
You're confusing your government with your nation. Also it was just an analogy.

>>42197577
Also it was just an analogy.
A lame ass analogy, I may say with all the convinction in the world.

>You're confusing your government with your nation.
Even worst. Brazil is a fruit of 100% exploitation. A result of something which is treated as something to be exploited, mined and exported. If you lived in this reality, oh, man. Brazil is not for amateurs, dude. You would last a day in the streets here. The criminals would eat you and use your bones as souvenirs.

To me, this only signals that a lot of you faggots here don't know the fuck what you are talking about. You have a very basic understanding of reality and then worst of than having a very basic understanding of reality you mistaken whatever delusion you have for reality as the ultimate reality for everyone.

>>42197607
You seem extremely angry anon. I'll pray for you.

>>42197612
Fuck you. WHo are you to pray for me? Pray for your family, for your pets, don't pray for me. And why would your deity bless me? Fuck your deity. If your deity is the one responsible for my existence then It can kiss my ass. I'm serious. Pray for me, as if that would do any good. I'm telling you people, the anons here are fucking delusional. They have this thing where they thing that they are superior to you. Like, he is going to pray for me, as if his word has any kind of value more than my own word or my own will power to wish myself the best, you know? He will pray for me. Anger is a natural feeling. God put that there for a reason. When we are angry that signals something. I'm angry not because I lack discipline or whatever. I'm angry because I'm aware of how shitty this lame ass reality is. I'm aware of how wea re all being taken for fools here. At this very moment our information is being harvested. We are trying to find the truth and this fuckers are gate keeping it away from us. I'm angry. Like I said, I have to live in a very corrupt contry. I'm not playing the victim card. My anger has a point. And there's a reason for my anger to exist. It doesn't come from nowhere. Fuck you. Pray for yourself, pray for your to scape this hell of world and prison, this matrix, this maze, this torture which is call life. Pray for yourself. Don't utter my name, you dog.

>>42196682
Interesting this easter falls on the same date. 03th of April 33. Should have happened exactly 7 hours and 1993 years ago.
In 2033, 2000 years after it, it falls on 14.th of April. However I read that due to changes in calendars it’s 11 days off, making it the 3rd again. Wich is is a very interesting coincidence. Thank you jesus, christ is king

>>42197330
I never asked to be created by god. If I had a choice not to be created or the choice to be created by someone else, or to create myself, perhaps I would have. Demanding payment for services that weren't asked for is a form of extortion and hence a crime. No one has the right to commit crimes. Imagine one day you came home and discovered I painted your house without your knowledge and demanded payment. It's the same thing. And sustainer? Ha. Hard working human farmers and truck drivers sustain me, don't talk rubbish.

>>42196682
Deserved. He was caught red handed with a naked child in the garden of Gethsemane and was dealt with accordingly. No amount of theology and cope will change what's written in your own holy books.

>>42197692
>this schizo again
Dude I'm no christcuck but the verse says some naked guy got frightened off by the armed mob and ran, implying he didn't have time to dress from sleeping. There's plenty of real dumb shit to criticise Christianity about.

>>42197678
So are your parents unjust for having sex to bring you into existence? Sounds like antinatalism. Anyhow, it is illogical for an effect to precede its cause, so obviously you couldn't choose to exist. This doesn't imply lack of freedom, for something must first be in order to have or not have freedom at all. It is meaningless to want to talk about freedom before you were created. God engages in an extraordinary act through creation, in that he instantly communicates existence to that which is outside of himself. Not that he creates anything from some pre-existent material, this is not required on the level of First Causation and in fact to suppose such would lead one into the heresy of emanationism. Instead God creates ex nihilo.

>>42197692
>>42197756
wearing just a linen robe was common at the time, too
the naked guy was only noted after the arrest anyways

>>42197765
Imagine your dad comes to you and asks for $1,000. Hey, maybe you like your dad so you give it to him. Sure dad, what, are you in financial trouble or something? Then suppose he comes the next week and the next week, every time demanding $1,000. At what point does the imposition of costs become to much to bear?

God demands eternal guilt, shame and fear for the crime of simply existing (original sin, fear of hell). The supposed promised reward is eventual freedom from this guilt, shame and fear, to be delivered by him at some unspecified point after death (unenforceable contract, I have no arbitrator to ensure he keeps his word). Since I don't naturally have these feelings as I don't give a flying hoot what god thinks of me, I am already free from these impositions, so I don't need his deal at all.
>blah blah cause and effect
So what caused Go- ah fuck it. Anyways god could've offered a quick sneak preview. Popped me into existence for a minute, shown me some of what's on offer and asked me if I'm interested. If I'd have known I'd have nothing but relentless drudgery and inceldom I probably wouldn't have bothered.

>>42197692
Why was Jesus with a naked boy when they came to arrest him?

>>42197825
>Imagine your dad comes to you and asks for $1,000. Hey, maybe you like your dad so you give it to him. Sure dad, what, are you in financial trouble or something? Then suppose he comes the next week and the next week, every time demanding $1,000. At what point does the imposition of costs become to much to bear?
It's like your assessment of the gospel is literally the opposite of what it actually does, since Christ's death and resurrection cancel any debt owed to God. Also your analogy is pretty bad since it seems to imply theft on the part of your father, as if he is unjustly taking money from you. It's not a debt then, it's just stealing.
>So what caused Go- ah fuck it.
You do realize that the premises of cosmological arguments don't require that everything in existence needs to have a cause, right? Typically in cosmological arguments the premises only assert that contingent things, or created things, or the universe or whatever needs a cause.

>>42197756
>>42197775
It wasn't a "dude" retard. The word used in the original greek explicitly identifies them as a youth and most likely a slave. I don't really care what a modern translation made by followers of this pathetic religion says.

>>42197876
Regardless of their identity, they weren't known until after jesus was arrested and was wearing a linen robe as was common for the time and place.

>>42197881
It doesn't specify anywhere in the original greek that it's a piece of clothing, you're assuming. Why is Jesus with a naked child in the first place? Why are his men keeping guard while Jesus is alone with this boy?

>>42197874
How do I know that I didn't have had the potential to be uncreated and that it wasn't maliciously snatched away by god? Maybe god is just the lucky sperm that won the race. God said let US create them in OUR image, yet funnily enough he's the only one that can shoot lightning bolts out his ass.
>since Christ's death and resurrection cancel any debt owed to God.
Well that's good cos he's not getting anything from me.

>>42197896
it was actually a metaphor for christs innocence escaping

Crux cross crucible

>>42197970
Lmao yeah that is what theologians and biblical scholars unironically believe. Interesting that despite how many Christians there are there seems to be approximately 0 that can actually read Greek at an adequate level. Why is that?

>>42198103
I can read Koine alright, actually. Taught myself all the paradigms for verbs and nouns and what not and I'm fairly alright with the vocab but still need to learn more to be fully fluent. I can read 1 John fully fluently. Currently reading through Paul in Greek right now to expand my vocab level. I just taught it to myself so I could read the NT in Greek.

>>42196682
Isaiah 53:5 NKJV
[5] But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.

Written from the Prophet Isaiah, written about 700+ years before Christ arrived.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are all eye witnesses testimonies of Jesus's life. Jesus Is a real historical figure, we know he Is real. We know he was crucified and died.

Romans 5:8 NKJV
[8] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

John 15:12-14 NKJV
[12] This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. [13] Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. [14] You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

John 14:6

>>42197692
>>42197870
It was a fucking toga that the soldiers accidentally pulled off when they tried to catch him

>>42198159
>I can read Koine alright, actually
This is my point. The best Christians can do is basic Koine which just boils down to a simple interlinear understanding of Greek. It's like saying you understand English but you have the vocabulary of a dimwit valley girl. Koine is ancient greek at it's lowest form.

>>42198207
I'm sorry I wasn't born speaking it. It's called learning. I can read Koine pretty alright, as I said. I'm not fluent but I can read large swaths of the NT without the need for an interlinear. But some parts are harder than others. Do you know how much hapax legomena is in Paul?

>>42198217
You're missing my point. Even if you are not directly using an interlinear while you're reading you are still relying on the interlinear translation. What other Greek literature are you reading outside the NT? Someone who knows Attic can very easily read Koine but the reverse is impossible. Someone who only reads NT interlinear has no idea that "Christ" is a drug term with 100s of years of usage in ancient greek literature. If they can't even get that right what else do they not understand?

>>42198412
>Someone who only reads NT interlinear has no idea that "Christ" is a drug term with 100s of years of usage in ancient greek literature
BEFORE Christianity ever existed I forgot to add

>>42198414
Christos is a verbal masculine noun derived from chrio meaning "I annoint".

>>42198526
Thanks google. Now go look up pre-Christian Greek texts that use the word and it's derivations and tell me that it still means "annoint".

>>42198675
Why are you being obtuse?

File: 1763257405519219.jpg (92 KB, 533x400)

92 KB JPG

>>42196682
Horrible but the Jews are that evil and the Old Testament predicts that something like that is going to happen. I'm Christian but I'm not into weird, mystical interpretations of Jesus' crucifixion including that he paid off our sins making Judas' betrayal "necessary", I think early Christian writers including Paul got a bit poetic and then inferior minds latched onto to certain phrases and that's where a lot of bad modern Christian doctrine comes from.

>>42196695
Youre talking about penal substitutionary atonement. Thats a protestant heresy.
When God made a covenant with moses, the humans immediately broke it by making the golden calf. Same with Adam eating the fruit. No covenant made with humans could hold up, so God had to make one with himself because only he himself is faithful. We can partake in this covenant through faith. You have a very earthly view on Jesus death and suffering. While yes, he did experience it all fully, there is a much bigger picture.

Romans 8:18
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

The suffering is borderline meaningless compared to the glory of heaven. Sin is the problem, suffering is only the necessary result of it. If man never died, we would be sinning for all eternity. Suffering just teaches us that there are consequences and that our actions have meaning, compared to heaven, it is meaningless.

>>42196682
Like a 7/10. I get that the longer process lets more happen in the scene but I still think I'd have preferred a sparagmos.

>>42199089
I don't actually think penal substitution per se is a heretical angle on the atonement. If you actually study the traditional Breviary for Good Friday, many of the psalms that are recited have a penal quality to them. Similarly if you read doctors like Aquinas, they do at times speak about Jesus taking on our punishment for sin. I think the problem with modern Protestant models is that they over emphasize this aspect of the atonement and make it look like its the only correct model. It's not. That Christ did take on our punishment is not incorrect, but it does not really give an exhaustive account of what Christ does. Taking on our punishment is but one aspect of what Jesus does. Many Protestants want to overstate their case though that Christ really takes on our guilt in some literal sense, even so far as to claim Jesus suffered in hell which is blatant heresy and a complete distortion of the Harrowing of Hell doctrine. The satisfaction model is the best model, and in my opinion the most correct articulation of at least how St. Paul views atonement. Albeit, I think some Catholics make the same mistake as some Protestants in taking an over literalistic view of the juridicial language used in satisfaction theories. For St. Paul, it is Christ's obedience that wins him his exaltation and, subsequently, our participation in that obedience through ongoing justification/sanctification that produces leads to salvation. In my view, Anselm's articulation is the closest to this model, though far more developed in terms of the juridicial language used with respect to God's honor and what not.

>>42199233
Of course there are even withing psa multiple views, as is typical with protestants. Yes, you can say christ suffered for us. But as you rightly say he didnt take our punishment 1:1. God didnt pour out his wrath on him (the father dwells within the son so technically in this view the father also pours his wrath on himself), and neither did Jesus suffer in hell for us.
Psa is in its essence a non understanding of the meaning of the old testament sacrifices, coupled with the legalistic mindset western christianity has adopted which you also point out.
Ill read up on Anselm, thank you.

>>42199089
>Romans 8:18
If our suffering is utterly meaningless then why bother with it at all?

>>42199333
In the garden of eden there was no suffering. Adam became prideful and wanted to judge things himself. Have his will be done instead of Gods and thus brought sin into the world.
Now imagine God didnt throw Adam out of eden after that. Adam would still be there, sinning to this day. Why? Because why not? He has everything he needs. He wont die, doesnt get ill. He is his own God. Only because he suffered the loss of Eden, and knowing the damnation he has brought upon humanity through original sin did he come to repentance.
I can tell you from personal experience that suffering wakes you up from the slumber of sin.

>>42199293
I mean it's undeniable that scripture contains within it penal language. Isaiah 53 being a prime example of it. But is it anachronistic to read the theology of penal substitution as it has been articulated by Protestants of today into it? Probably. The servant is afflicted by God, but the language of bearing sin is more like the servant carrying a sickness rather than being reckoned guilty of some crime. Indeed, it's not even God speaking in Isaiah 53 but a group of people, either Israel or the Gentile nations. The transference of sin is not foreign to the Tanakh either, it seems to be the framework behind Yom Kippur in Leviticus 16. It is interesting to see though how the LXX version of Isaiah 53 differs from the MT version, for in the former verse 10 reads, "It was the LORD's will to purify him" while in the latter it has "crush him", maybe reflecting different theologies between the textual lineages. I can't say penal substitution is wrong, but more extreme versions of it look to be.

>>42196682
The prophet mohammed never endured any suffering, married a six year old girl, and claimed to split the moon in half when no one was conveniently looking.

Christ taught us that God is within us all, sacrificed himself to absolve us of original sin, and whipped the shit out money changers in the church.

By comparison, Christ is an absolute chad, a 100-percent-BASED-beyond-mortal-belief being. Thank you, Jesus, for helping us on our paths which otherwise would have been sure destruction.

Still, many do not see what he meant. He is a model human to follow, not to lean on. We are expected to carry our own crosses (our burdens, sufferings, griefs, sins), deal with them, and transmute them into divine energy.

No other group of faith would ever consider sacrificing themselves as a gesture of unconditional love, let alone as a message. Regardless if you believe, the message is abundantly clear: sacrifice yourself (shed all that is unnecessary in life) to reach God, which really means to go deep within. Egos are temporary. God is eternal.

Find yourself.

>>42198675
They can't.

File: 1701997505031367.png (209 KB, 599x568)

209 KB PNG

>>42199670
In the defense of Mohamed, he was born into a wealthy trade family that held political power in the city.
He could have had a very comfortable, leisurely life.
Instead, he goes off and builds an army, even though he never fought in the military, and leads them to victory after victory to finally defeat the church that was controlling the region by implementing taxes upon worshipers and believers inside of the Kaaba, with 300+ different gods and their statues, and a fee and a tax applied for every single ailment or problem that one needed to pray for.

It was horrid exploitation using The Creator to steal from the helpless, the scared and feeble, the ill and sick, the desperate.

Mohammad took a fucking baseball bat to that idol worship greed slop exploitation.

>>42196682

People that wear the cross are proud gang-stalkers. Mary was working with the gang-stalkers too. Jesus was a targeted individual from birth. Why Catholics pray to her more than Jesus.

>>42197607
Dude, You are absolutely based. I'm form Buenos Aires and I know what you mean.

It's funny how these clowns think they know it all, lol.

He had to die. His death is the fruit of the tree from which he hangs that you eat. You cannibalize him.
https://youtu.be/DZtq-IqULAo

>>42200252
Ize implies a belief like ism

Canaan baal is cannibal

So no I don't believe in that nonsense

It sounds decidedly evil as a matter of fact and I condemn anyone who engaged in these practices. For a surety

>>42200291
>Transubstantiation
Maybe it's because you're not Catholic.

>>42200296
You pretend bread is the flesh of Jesus who you say is God that you eat and the wine is his blood.

Do you you even drink actual wine or is it sugar artificial grape juice?

That's your transubstantiation as a Pharisees for a work among men in the congregation.

>>42200296
YOUR CATHOLIC CHURCH IS FULL OF PEDOPHILES

>>42200252
he was the keystone the builders rejected and his death was meant to end the torture, humiliation, and death of people. they still do this shit, and they do it in broad daylight through mkultra torture. because they're trying to steal souls by destroying minds.

File: file.png (819 KB, 825x465)

819 KB PNG

>>42200332
But he's the one with the fertility. He's the one that fertilizes the womb of the ideal the world has. It's through him that the fruits, which represent him, hang from the tree.
See, he gets the musings, the Inspiration, from the Frenzy had in the Garden (represented by the fruit). His Blood is what waters that Tree, anon. Don't you get it?

>>42197896
Only a tranny would draw the conclusion of pedophilia, rape, and drugging, because they're projecting their own sick desires.

Stop taking estrogen.

File: jesus.jpg (63 KB, 720x960)

63 KB JPG

I am the resurrection and the life whoever believes in me though he die yet shall he live

>>42196695
Making the crucifixion the symbol of Jesus’s story is a distortion that halts it in its second act. The basic story of Jesus proceeds suchforth:
1. Jesus encounters the Holy Spirit and takes up his ministry
2. Jesus performs miracles and is put to death by the authorities
3. Jesus returns from the grave to honor the faithful
It’s not that Jesus dying was unfair of God, but that in order for Jesus to be resurrected, of course he must live and die first in the sequence; it’s not a resurrection unless he lives twice.
Live twice, die once. That is unfair, but unfair in favor of the lives temporary and eternal, not in favor of suffering and death.

File: R.jpg (33 KB, 450x658)

33 KB JPG

Jesus i hope to find you someday in paradise i will always follow your teachings

File: da1718dc-a31a-4742-8162-6(...).png (358 KB, 1239x1753)

358 KB PNG

>>42196682
What I do know is that symbols rule the world.

File: da1718dc-a31a-4742-8162-6(...).png (403 KB, 1239x1753)

403 KB PNG

>>42201730
Who is that a painting of actually?

>>42197210
>this would be a violation of justice
How? Who is harmed?
Justice is redress and reparation of harm.
It isnt punishment.
MERCY does not violate justice.
And isnt God MERCIFUL?

>>42199362
>adam doesn't know what sin is until he eats the magic evil apple
That's like throwing a puppy out into the winter snow because it pissed on the carpet
>adam would still be alive today, doing his thang
Really don't see a problem with that.

Idk which atonement theory is correct guys. Which is most correct? Satisfaction, penal sub, ransom, recapitulation, or moral?

>>42199077
>Why are you being obtuse?

Isn't it funny that telling people to engage with primary evidence for themselves is being "obtuse"? Christians are completely out of their depth when you bring up the Greek and the fact that their is a Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic (lmao) literary tradition that Christian writers are writing within. How ridiculous is it that a religion built around the idea of the "word of god" and "holy scripture" can't even understand their own books? Round up all the greatest biblical scholars that claim to read Greek and put some Aristotle in front of them and watch them squirm. If Christians cared about truth they'd be the loudest ones beating the Greek drum to get answers but they don't care. It's all performative bullshit and mental masturbation to cope while you and your progeny are drained of all vitality.

>>42198947
Whoops, meant to quote you not OP

>>42202157
Faggot. Koine and Attic are different dialects. It'd be like telling someone who speaks modern English to go and read Middle English literature and expect them to be fluent.
>b-but people who learn attic do just fine with koine!!! ree!! reeee!!!
Ok, and? That happens with plenty of languages, fuck face. A modern Greek speaker has difficulty reading Koine and Attic because those are antiquated dialects. Of course you'd expect people trained in reading Koine literature to only be good at reading Koine. It's a fucking dead language anyway. Dead languages aren't typically taught like living languages. Most people learn how to read specific pieces of literature because nobody is speaking the language now, ass-hat. You can be fluent in reading the NT in Greek but maybe have trouble reading the LXX.

>>42202210
>>42202157
>I promise if you read it in Greek the story about the magic baby makes more sense
Yeah okay dude

>>42197552
did Iran really shoot down 3 birds on good Friday. Kek do something JESUS CHRIST you cuck
Baal Jesus
the new owner
Do you like our 'No Kings' protest
Can't believe you trusted those bird creatures lmfao. Up in heaven having his sweet asshole made love to, according to Roman Catholic hermeticism. God is making romantic love to his own image.

File: faust-and-mephistopheles-(...).jpg (150 KB, 900x720)

150 KB JPG

>>42201711
Fuck no your little angels are tattletales and don't serve you.

Why don't you go save the Jews first?