>>42264108
Your thread is about 2 bumps from dying, I'm gonna save it because I'm hoping you have some knowledge and experience and can help me.

I'm looking for effective meditation techniques (or energy work techniques), ones that you've personally and successfully used before (anything you've tried that produced supernatural phenomena, especially meditative/energy work techniques).

Please state them, then source (book + author + etc), and most importantly, what phenomena/experience did those practices induce that proved to you that they were effective. Also just as important, how long did it take for those phenomena to manifest from training in these practices (e.g. 1 month) + your training rate (e.g. 1 hour per day).

Good luck with your thread, hope you get the answers you are seeking, and I'm also hoping you can help me get some answers too.

>>42264108
Also, by supernatural phenomena, I guess I need to be specific so that you don't filter stuff out that would be useful. I don't mean just things like "having a vision" or anything like that, I also mean things as simple as experiencing a state of natural and persistent quiet of mind (your mind was silenced for a noticeable duration, no mental chatter, no inner monologue, etc).

Or any state of mind or trance state that would be considered "abnormal" from the usual state we all exist in and experience.

So don't think that I'm just asking for something surreal, I'm just looking for things that actually work and would help one on the path of gaining more control of their mind, especially with respect to entering altered states (could even be an audio you listened to that affected your brain waves - like binaural beats).

Hoping you didn't abandon your thread because it got no responses till I arrived, it would truly be a waste.

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>>42264108
How can you be both a Muslim and a Buddhist. Even stripping Buddhism down, isn't there a belief in rebirth? I'm guessing you follow the practices of Buddhism dor thr development of character but only believe the Quran's cosmology.

>>42267911
>Anapanasati (Mindfulness of Breathing): The foundational practice to calm the body and mind, as detailed in the Anapanasati Sutta

>Vipassana (Insight): A method of observing mental and physical phenomena to understand impermanence, suffering, and non-self, which leads to wisdom and liberation.

>Jhana (Deep Concentration): While he rejected extreme asceticism, he used refined states of concentration (Jhana) that he remembered from his youth to reach enlightenment.

Meditation with expectations of gaining something will be a hindrance to progress.
The Chinese traditions is probably the best for energy work.

>>42268266
>Meditation with expectations of gaining something will be a hindrance to progress.
I'm sorry, but this has always seemed like some self gaslighting nonsense to me, purposefully put forth by the elites to keep normal people satisfied with not getting results, and further gaslighting takes place because the only methods they have access to are fake methods or low quality ones that are barely effective.

Every breakthrough I've had has been from me intentionally seeking out a gain (a gain in ability).

Doing anything without the intent to gain is counter to the very notion of "action" itself. It's like telling someone to wake up every morning and brush their teeth and bathe, but also telling them that they'll still get cavities and smell bad regardless, but they should still do it and make it part of their routine.

It doesn't make sense, it's counter to reality, and this framework always seems to me like something "sinister" put forth to the masses to keep them ignorant and powerless.

Unless you are a child you probably have a job, and you'd laugh in your bosses face if they told you to show up without expecting payment. Nobody ever applies this flawed logic of "effort without payment" to any other aspect of their life (it's just self gaslighting).

You also did not state the most important factors, what phenomena the practices induced. Without that, it doesn't seem worth the time or effort.

If you are indeed OP, then I wasted my time saving this thread, and your thread ironically by it's very nature contradicts what you told me, because the very point of this thread is for you to gain something, the very nature of "actions" themselves are to "gain".

>>42264108
>share insight
Are you not trying to GAIN insight?

>>42268479
>Doing anything without the intent to gain is counter to the very notion of "action" itself.
Congratulations, you figured out Buddhism.
Karma = action. Good/bad karma = action with intention or intended outcome good/bad. Overcoming karma formation = action without expected outcome.
It almost as if enlightenment is hard because it's counterintuitive and your ego is always grasping for something to hold on to instead of letting go.

You can't force meditation. It's the same principle with manifesting, the mindset of wanting something means you don't have it, scarcity mindset.
"I need this, I must have that" reinforcing subconsciously that you don't have it.

If you want to develop Chi look to Chinese practices.

>>42268479
>I'm sorry, but this has always seemed like some self gaslighting nonsense to me
Buddhists are desperate for everyone to believe that mediation is only their way, and only for their reasons.

>>42268909
>It almost as if enlightenment is hard
"Enlightenment" is hard because there's no such thing, it's a purposefully vague and meaningless term that everybody conveniently gets to define for themselves, and it has no criteria.

People like you are why cults were ever even "a thing" (and still are today), because it's easy to manipulate someone with no objective goals and who has no objective criteria for why something should be valued.

Charisma should never be enough to get someone to drink poisoned koolaid, but with people like you it's enough.

>Karma = action. Good/bad karma = action with intention or intended outcome good/bad. Overcoming karma formation = action without expected outcome.
Lastly, once again, it's weird how you don't see the inherent contradiction to what you claim Buddhism is. Why are Buddhists not some secret organization the world never heard about, if it's about action without intention, why are they going out of their way spreading the faith so that they can save others from "Samsara".

You are saying words but I don't think you are comprehending them. The very nature of existence is intention, a belief system that seeks to spread itself for the sake of "saving others" is intentional, which would be contradictory based on your definition since the intention is the expected outcome.

>You can't force meditation
I think the more honest answer is you don't know the methods, and also, doing something with intention is not equal to forcing it (that's your characterization).

>It's the same principle with manifesting
Which is nonsense believed by delusional people who have no objective criteria for measuring whether or not they manifested something. Why are 99% of so called "manifesters" poor losers with mediocre lives?

Let me guess, they aren't "doing it right"?.

Do you notice the trend of all fraudulent systems just relying on it's members gaslighting themselves and believing in it blindly?

Don't Muslims kill people for syncretism.

>>42269030
Ok, good luck with your supernal phenomena.

>>42269030
>"Enlightenment" is hard because there's no such thing, it's a purposefully vague and meaningless term that everybody conveniently gets to define for themselves, and it has no criteria.
Enlightenment has a precise definition that is the same across almost every traditional spiritual doctrine. First Delphic maxim sums it up

>>42269183
>Enlightenment has a precise definition that is the same across almost every traditional spiritual doctrine.
Which is exactly why you didn't bother to simply state it here...

If it's so precise and well known, then just state it, rather than more vagueposting bs.

>>42269172
>Ok, good luck with your supernal phenomena.
I don't need to wish you luck, because it's easy to hit a target that you get to decide the value of. This is why there's some basement dwelling loser with no life who thinks he's enlightened and there's also the actual monk living in a monastery who thinks they are enlightened. But if enlightenment truly had a concrete definition with specific criteria, there wouldn't be so many people that can claim enlightenment so easily.

The problem with enlightenment in the modern era is that it's a target everybody can hit, because it's now a "placeholder" term for whatever each individual deems as a "high level of spiritual achievement".

I would not be surprised if you already considered yourself enlightened, and nobody can tell you otherwise because it's all subjective at this point anyways.

You've essentially "already won" because you literally don't have any strict criteria for what counts as a "loss". One day you are likely just going to wake up and consider yourself to now be enlightened (if you haven't already), and there won't be any real difference between the you now and the you of the future.

This is my final bump, I'll allow this pointless thread to die like it originally should have, since like you said, there is no intention or expectation for the thread (since that's what Buddhism is about), which quite literally makes it pointless useless, you wasted your time making this thread if you don't have any expectations for it and you don't want to gain anything from it.

>>42269622
You have a big ego and behave like a child. You're a know-it-all and lash out when the answers given doesn't suit you. How are you supposed to learn anything about spiritual matters?

Here are the stages of liberation in buddhism.

>1. Stream-enterer (Sotāpanna): "One who enters the stream." This person has attained insight into the Buddha's teachings and will not be reborn in any lower realm (hell, animal, or hungry ghost), guaranteeing full enlightenment within seven lifetimes

>2. Once-returner (Sakadāgāmi): The practitioner has weakened the bonds of sensual desire and ill will. They will return to the human world only one more time before achieving final awakening.

>3. Non-returner (Anāgāmi): They have completely destroyed the lower fetters (sensual desire and ill will) and will not be reborn as a human or in any lower realm; they are reborn in a "Pure Abode" (heavenly realm), where they attain full enlightenment.

>4. Arahant (Arahant): A fully enlightened being who has abandoned all ten fetters, including the higher fetters (desire for form/formless existence, conceit, restlessness, and ignorance). This is the final stage, resulting in liberation from all future rebirths

>>42264108
If you are serious about theravada, usually you work up to the 9 day silent retreat. I've done 3 day silent retreats, including one with Ajan Sumedho. I did another one with monks in a forest when the layers started peeling back and it was intense, I never made it to the level of mindfullness and focus required for the 9 day retreats. Devotees I knew, practiced for a year to prepare. I also learned some esoteric practices from a forest monk that befriended me. Something like Dao yin. I changed to Chan after a tasted emptiness while meditating with a master and I chase that now but Theravada is probably one of the best spiritual paths for a layperson ever devised imo,

>>42267946
>How can you be both a Muslim and a Buddhist.
Theravada has places great emphasis on mindfulness(not the ekhart tolle TEMU version ) and meta, these can be practiced by any religion.

>>42269622
>Which is exactly why you didn't bother to simply state it here...
"First Delphic maxim sums it up"

>>42264108
Buddhism and Shia’ism are both retarded. You searched inside found a double dose of retardedness apparently. What a dumb bitch. May Trump bomb Iran back to Zoroastrian times.

>>42264108
The problem with buddhism is that the highest level of attainment is self-denial. You could dabble in it and be fine, but if you really get into it, you become sterile. If life is so painful that sterility is your preference, then fair enough, but you could never bring this to society at large. It would make the whole society sterile.

>>42270928
Actually, on second thought, even if you brought buddhism to society at large, only a small percent would get invested enough to become sterile, so maybe it wouldn't be that bad.

https://www.youtube.com/@HillsideHermitage

>>42264108
Honestly this thread is most interesting to me and better than what those christcucks write. So definitely worth exploring, Buddha had a closer overview of what life is than anyone else.
Nonetheless meditation is fucking hard!

>>42270933
You say this like it hasn't been tried. It's fine.

Does buddhism hold control over the akashic records?

>>42271311
I know it is popular in the east, but I don't know how seriously they take it. Sometimes cultures put their own spin on religions that disregard key theory from its source. I'm only really familiar with Hindu (probably Bactrian) Buddhism.

>>42271984
XD

>>42264108
a question for anyone that can consistently access the jhanas. how do you do it, anon?

>>42264108
What are good books or material to start in theravada buddhism? I am interested in the more spiritual side of this.

>>42272762
to access jhanas? why are there so many posts online claiming it then?

>>42264108
Is this your third thread today again?

>>42272856
Stop actually lying through your teeth you massive attention seeker

>>42273469
It is possible, as a beginner easier if you go to like 10 days retreats so that you're not distracted and can focus solely on meditating.

>>42273480
More like 4th or 5th.

>>42273531
Its a good general so I'm glad more anons are getting interested in Buddhism

>>42273592
Buddhists who aren't hypocrites tend to be friendly folks. They also seem to have a genuine interest in helping other people saving their souls.
While I don't agree with their methods I must admit they are much less annoying than abrahamics.

>>42273617
Exactly, I find them friendly and at least if you don't share their ideas, they tend to keep mostly to themselves.

>>42273617
Buddhists are the worst , they dont believe in saving souls , they just care about their personel shit , the only reason you are making a thread and have a tendency to help others is because of your islamic roots

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What do you use to practice buddhism, anon? Do you go to a temple, read a book or watch videos to get better at it?
>>42273749
They do care and that's the bodshivatta's role, to be a link between this life and the next to help followers all around the world. They just aren't annoying faggots trying to shove their ideas down everyone's throats like christcucks.

>>42273749
Replying to the wrong dude. I despise everything islam has put forth on this earth and while some Muslims are charitable, most are in the prospect of proselytising or getting brownie heaven points.

>>42267928
When talking of supernatural phenomena I'd rather become the avatar or warp reality with my fists. Why are all buddhists so weak?
https://youtu.be/iuUUtzUeauA

>>42273516
>as a beginner easier if you go to like 10 days retreats
and what is the harder path?

>>42273818
Go on a 1 to 20000 days schizo spiral over the nature of reality without drugs or documentation and attain buddhahood unscathed. I hear isolating yourself innawoods or innacave helps.

>>42273818
Doing it at home on your own. If you have the time and disciplin then go for it.

What do you do all day, anon?

>>42268266
What is the Chinese method like?

>>42274622
It doesn't work, Buddhism is a Japanese practice

>>42274622
Qigong, neigong, neidan, etc. The basic stuff is something like microcosmic orbit meditation, and maybe ba duan jin. The more advanced stuff could be something like yi jin jing.

>>42274994
What does it let you do?

>>42274994
In sober terms, it's just another way to de-stress. In slightly more optimistic terms? It's a pathway to longevity. In xtard schizo terms? ***IT MAKES YOU AN IMMORTAL WHO CAN FLY, TELEPORT, SHOOT FIREBALLS OUT OF YOUR ARSE***

>>42276868
Sorry. This was meant for >>42276860

>>42276868
Is this the famed cultivation?

>>42270928
But what is to "become sterile"? Buddhism only aims to stop suffering, but you would still need to do stuff to survive and it qualitatively improves the societies it is applied to such as Japan.
There are no useful alternatives around

>>42272255
The key is that no one actually takes it seriously except monks. This is also exactly how it worked in Latin Christendom. You can tell people that eternal happiness awaits those who reject the world and deny themselves until you're blue in the face, but the vast majority just won't be inclined to it.

>>42264108
Don't talk about Buddhism on /x/
Been saying this for a few years on every thread that gets posted.
I will admit however that the website does feel like it's changing. It MAY be getting close to time for Buddhism to be spoken on here.
But for now, I still don't think we're ready and advise against discussing it here.

Other than that, I'm glad for you, Anon. May you have peace and wellness. >>42268266
This is not correct. There's a lot of misunderstanding here.
AFA energy, we have our own energy cultivation. Where do you think indigenous Chinese got (some) of their stuff?
Again, don't talk about Buddhism on./x/ though.
>>42269710
Technically this is right, but the framing is completely incorrect.
>>42269742
Don't talk about Buddhism on /x/
Glad its working. May you swiftly attain the deathless.

>>42278716
Don't talk about Buddhism on /x/
I also advise and caution against responding to trolls. Anti-buddhist sentiment gets passed around alot online Because Buddhists are interested in "the good life", whereas the modern character of countries in the west are invested in creating "bad" lives.
Vis-a-vis Japan, we did have a lot of good developments there. But we never got to fully settle, so Japan still lacks alot of critical "Buddhist infrastructure".
They (the Japanese government) are also ignoring alot of Buddhist magic stuff they're supposed to be doing, that they contracted the Buddhist community specifically on, to stabilize the country.

Japan would be 1000000% better if it would just allow Buddhism to fully mature and settle. Would immediately relieve the work tension there.

>>42273761
You say that while 'importantly' stating on every single thread you make that you're Muslim

>>42279056
You are confusing me with someone else. Perhaps you need to take your meds, anon.
>>42272508
Practice, meditation and lot of practice.

>>42272508
Don't talk about Buddhism on /x/
ESPECIALLY DO NOT TALK ABOUT JHANAS. Jhana discussion among westerners has been an absolute nightmare!
With that out of the way...if you want to attain jhana you need to consistently practice meditation & to uphold (at minimum) the five precepts.
Meditate for an hour. If you don't, the energy of the body-mind won't have time to settle and stabilize. You might be Able to slowly build up to jhana through a war of attrition if you go less than an hour....but you'll be struggling a lot more than you need to.
When you're not meditating, take up a (relaxed) mindfulness and enjoy life in a way that serves you with wholesome joy.

I recommend going on retreat if you really want them. You can access them at home, but you're again, going to struggle alot more. Especially if you are in the west. Once you attain jhana a singular time, it becomes easy to keep letting go into them.
>Inb4 western jhana war nonsense
Please do not do this. Don't get involved with people discussing how "deep" or "light" a jhana is.
Traditional Buddhists favor a "deep" jhana. But "light" ones have also been used in context to esoteric practice.

Lastly, if you attain a state you believe is jhana, DO NOT. TALK. ABOUT IT. Do not CLAIM to have it. This is a karmic MINEFIELD.
If you want to check, find a reputable teacher and ask. This will be easy to do once you've taken meditation to this depth. If the teacher is legitimate, they will know.

>>42279122
>... to uphold (at minimum) the eight precepts.
FTFY.
> Don't talk about Buddhism on /x/
In what other boards do you think is acceptable? I had some good conversations from time to time in /x/, but I agree with you that is not even a mediocre option.

>>42279208
>FTFY
Five is fine. Eight WILL help you go faster but not everybody (atleast in West or westernized areas) can uphold the eight in this era.
The minimum is the five. If you can do those, you can get jhana. That's the absolute minimum for a lay person who wants to seriously cultivate jhana.
Once you get a taste of proper jhana, you'll naturally want to hold the eight though.
>In what other boards do you think is acceptable?
Honestly? None, yet. I just don't think the website is ready for this sort of discussion. If there were a board proper for it, /x/ would likely be it. Buddhism is full of stuff that /x/ *should* love.
What holds us back is that this website is used, modernly, to spread so much anger and negativity, along with absolute psyops. As a community, anons are constantly getting pushed and prodded by people trying to stoke them into extremist, identity based politics. Alot of this ties into attempts to corrupt various religious movements. This is kind of the state for much the English speaking web.

That said, I do want to reiterate - something has definitely changed here. I Don't know what, but it DOES feel a lot different on /x/ than its been for a while. It might be that we're getting close to it being the appropriate time for this place to discuss Buddhism.

I might even change my mind today about the website & board. It kinda depends on the tone of things. I have a couple markers that help me decide if a community is ready for this sort of discussion.

>>42279043
Your disapproving opinions are rather pointless when you're not correcting what's apparently wrong your opinion or otherwise contribute in a constructive manner.

>>42279282
Alright, allow me to uno reverse here. What are you critiquing me on?
Being frank here, I'm not talking about opinions. People have all kinds of opinions, and it's not my job to manage them at all.

I'm strictly speaking about things from a practice standpoint.
Now, that said, are you wanting me to elaborate on issues with the west? Or something else? I imagine it would be west, as the other things I mention are more detailed.

If anyone has any flexibility routines, that they personally had success with to reduce pain, and meditation longer, I'm all ears.

I

>>42279273
I think if a good general gets going and if practicing anons don't fall for stupid ragebaits, it could be a nice place to discuss the path, at least in time.
Other internet forums are either dead, full of schizos or they are the same dudes shitposting each other in all posts.

>>42279273
NTA. You say modernly, but I am on here ca. Habbo raids, and while things might have been better in a qualified sense back then, in no way was it more receptive to spiritual teaching. The one virtue of this site was always that anyone can feel free to say what they really think, but over the years psyops have been refined to a science on here thanks entirely to that virtue. That is why so much of contemporary culture is downstream of chan culture. In spite of that, I have had a few genuinely edifying discussions.
People are not generally going to discuss the "boring" parts of any tradition and the ones with the greatest interest in posting anything about any of them are either buying or selling opinions. Apart from this, there are a few every now and then who know something and have the power to convey it, but they only stick around long enough to do that before they leave.
Let's say that Anon was born with hyperphantasia, to the point that concentrating on anything generally causes him to lose awareness of time and physical surroundings. How should he meditate in order to escape from suffering? Can he live in the world at the same time?

>>42279728
Agreed, I've long wanted to understand buddhism more deeply and its perfect for sharing the more supernatural elements of it

>>42279352
My critique is your holier than thou attitude and not contributing. This board or site as a whole isn't going to change by itself, although it will always be what it is to some degree. Perhaps you've noticed a change because there are some people trying to educate and spread positivity. You never know who reads what, what impact it has and trajectory someone's life takes from even one post.
Someone has to be a light in the dark.

>>42280126
Alright, I see your points. I'm gonna respond best as I can.
>Not contributing
I have contributed. Just perhaps not in the way you may like. Look upwards and you'll see a post on jhana that is, maybe more helpful, than most of what you'll get on here.

That said, you're not wrong either. I could be contributing more - I'm not. There's a reason for that.
>This board or site as a whole isn't going to change by itself, although it will always be what it is to some degree.
I agree and think you're exactly right that it won't change by itself.
I disagree that it will simply be what it is to some degree either though. The beautiful thing about life is that it has capacity for change.

I have seen /x/ at its best, and I've seen it at its worst. Currently, it's not doing too well right now. It's gotten better, I'm happy for it. I may even be wrong and the website COULD be ready.

But I am very cautious about this. For good reason. Buddhists introduced the religion to a culture that wasn't ready for it (the west) and in return, the west has spent decades trying to undermine and recreate/destroy Buddhism. Jhana was nearly forcibly removed from buddhism due to western interpolations of "superstition".

English websites are used to engage more destructive memetic warfare than has ever existed prior. 4chan is the most successful meme factory out there.

Depending on the time and the culture tone of the website, 4chan can either outgrow it's current social limitations and become the greatest force of good the world has ever seen. Or it can become an endless repertoire of political reactionaryism and utter depravity.

Introduction of Buddhism to the website at the wrong time, will see that Buddha dhamma gets hijacked and turned inside out until its nothing. There are so, so many bad actors online.

It may be that it's time now, it may do a lot of good. But there must be caution. When a meme gets started now, it effects the entire world.
(Cont)

>>42280228
>Perhaps you've noticed a change because there are some people trying to educate and spread positivity.
It's possible. It may be this is happening very subtly, very quickly, in ways I don't see yet.
I would like this to be the case. I would love to share my religion here and let people see what we have to offer. I mentioned before, in another thread - I saw what the western world could be like with proper dhamma flourishing. /x/ could be a great catalyst to cause rainfalls of merit and goodness to occur across the world.

Precisely, it is that which begs great caution. The board, the website, is at a critical point. The culture here must choose what is beautiful and good. This is the choke point.
>You never know who reads what, what impact it has and trajectory someone's life takes from even one post.
Someone has to be a light in the dark.
Can't argue with that. You are correct.
I'm just waiting for the culture to be ready for this. It might be ready now. It may not be. I will wait, safely, and see.

If it's ready, and assuming that Buddhism takes and flourishes in here, it will cause changes unlike anything imagined.

>>42279728
>I think if a good general gets going and if practicing anons don't fall for stupid ragebaits, it could be a nice place to discuss the path, at least in time.
The big thing is not falling for stupid rage baits as mentioned. Anons would need to become VERY RESISTANT to all trolling attempts.
Of course, you'll get flooded with bots and hired trolls because of that. But if the community itself were resistant to this? It would be legendary.

Becoming resistant to these psyops will mean learning to hold steadfast to ethical-values of buddhism. No wrong speech. It also means deprogramming from the Christian culture of the west, with its technological and atheistic considerations.

Doing so will allow anons to not only be resistant, but to glance into the thought world we offer, and to build it up in their home countries.

I have seen what the Buddhist west could look like. It is glorious. /x/ becoming a place of joy would lead to a cascade in this direction.
>Other internet forums are either dead, full of schizos or they are the same dudes shitposting each other in all posts.
To be fair, /x/ also has some of these problems. Though... Honestly, who knows how many of the crazy posts on here are even real anymore? Most of them may be psyops targeted at people weak to psychosis.
Otherwise, agree it could great here. There's a lot of upsides to /x/.

Dear Buddhist:
Write a message that sings of the glory of life and existence from your perspective as best you can.

>>42280429
I'm not an ai.

>>42279122
This is good advice. I made the mistake of claiming and arguing the existence of metta-induced-Jhana and i felt retarded afterward. I think meditation experiences are best kept between you and God or the Buddha if ya know what I mean. "My meditation experiences are private" is the ultimate Buddhist social mantra.

>>42280462
I'm not looking for a response from an AI. I've experienced a wealth of wonder, beauty and love in my life. I'm not looking for something that explains why things are broken, but why they are so right.

>>42268479
I think its sort of a buzz phrase used in Buddhist circles that really just means "dont worry about the result". Obviously there is an internal knowledge somewhere that something good will be gained fron practicing meditation. Its sort of stretched to an extreme in jewish-influenced-zen-Buddhist circles where they take it off a literal cliff and assert -

>literally be schizo in the present moment to the extent that you never consider the future for even a moment. Inhale the tea, feel your hands around your dick, BE THAT MOMENT

>also Karma and rebirth are either illusions or dont matter just feel that orgasm and be present with it thats the heart of the Buddha right there.

>>42280507
Just as obviously, the moment is not the deathless, and the "orgasm" is something to be gained, so maybe it's not stretched to an extreme so much as it's perverted into its complete opposite.
Not even Buddhist btw.

>>42280555
Based and selfpilled

>>42279673
Soul pains count? If so I think death metal meditation works

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>>42267911
>I'm looking for effective meditation techniques (or energy work techniques), ones that you've personally and successfully used
Gooned 1-3 times per day for 28 years (since puberty). Toward the final 6-7 years it took on a distinctly devotional cast and I went into deep surrender and piety to the objects of my adoration, who were worshipped physically and emotionally.

Post awakening I gained a vocabulary for that path: Tantra. Sort of hermetic tantra where you're already born near the end.

>>42280396
Let's try something like a pseudo-general when this one dies, I'll make something in the weekend.

Hey someone with autism, and ocd.
You guys know what Buddhism can apply for me here? Free my soul from all this biological nonsense and fallacy?

>>42282565
>I gained a vocabulary for that path: Tantra.
You are aware that tantra just means "process", right? That there are many tantric paths, and they dont all agree?
Did you just learn this due to sex part? Because usually the only "tantra" the West is ever interested in are sex rituals.

>>42283724
We can try, though I'm very nervous about that.
Look at the average post on here....the fact we even have an O9A thread on the same board is another huge red flag.
If this thread and the next go well and people are serious about learning, I will share deeper information as appropriate. Anything I share I'll try to include the technical terms so it can be researched & verified on one's own after.
If this goes well and anons are serious, it could radically change the character of the website and the entire west.

For now....I will tacitly answer some things in a limited sense. Depending on how things go, I may give more deep and informed information.
>>42268479
It's not gaslighting in its original usage. There is a purpose here in telling someone not to chase after the results.
This is NOT a rejection of skillful desire though. There's a balancing act when it comes to intent.
Correct intent is very important for the payoff to actually occur. If you're clinging to the result, it inhibits the payoff in the same way skipping work will fuck up your paycheck.
Again, there's reasons for this. Intent in action is very important. Intent based on craving (tanha) will disrupt you greatly.
>>42280507
Please do not bring in western religion drama into the discussion.
The issues effecting zen do have a religious basis, but it's not from Jews in of themselves. It's more complex than that.
VIS-A-VIS result, yes.

>>42283757
OCD anon here. Start a 5 minute a day meditation practice. Don’t worry too much about “doing it correctly”. Just establish a small daily practice you keep to and go from there. Just 5 minutes a day. This will create an anchor you have in your life that is consistent and it will help the mind rest a bit.
It’s possible to heal - I’ve done it. Keep the faith

>>42279970
All of Buddhism is supernatural. It's just taken differently. We believe what is "supernatural" is actually just natural. Part of life.
This is something that makes us very surprised when it comes to the west. Westerners & weaternized are very "cut off" when it comes to spiritual phenomenon. We see it all the time, very easily. Westerners often don't.

Ghosts, nature spirits, etc are all very normal phenomenon for us. It's not unusual to see strange things.
The big difference is we don't make a huge deal out of it. We may have interest in it, study it, etc...but it's all normal for us. It's simply part of life. It's so much part of life we have entire customs in our countries for dealing with it, treating spirits for example like guests/people.

Again, huge difference here. Westerners are very obsessive with these things and attribute huge importance to them. *Actual* buddhists typically are not.

>>42279789
>Let's say that Anon was born with hyperphantasia, to the point that concentrating on anything generally causes him to lose awareness of time and physical surroundings. How should he meditate in order to escape from suffering? Can he live in the world at the same time?
Just meditate. Sit down, meditate.
These questions, they're questions born from living in a world which does not have interest in ensuring ones quality of life is rich, vivid and living.

One should take an object suitable for him - the breath for example (which is suitable for most people).

He should then apply himself to that object over and over again. His practice is not to create concentration, but to create UNIFICATION of mind.

He is routinely attending his attention to that object, allowing that object to be preferred by his attention. He does this without hating, scorning or rejecting other phenomenon which may arise and distract him. He simply notes their existence if they appear to them, then goes back to the object. This includes, also, things such as loss of awareness. This even includes things such as sensations, perceptions, etc. He is aware of them in whatever form he may experience, then returns to the object.

If he is doing this properly, his awareness should be absorbed in and unified by the object chosen. This will gradually cause him to experience a wholesome joy, which is not based in suffering, but instead the release of suffering. This joy that arises is a safe joy. It's not born of the five senses, and it leads one to freedom.

Far as living in the world....wdym by that? I need a little more detail.

>>42284125
>We can try, though I'm very nervous about that.
Ye, I understand. At least the Sāvaka path is taught open-handed, maybe some sutta references of all lineages and introductory texts won't be a problem.

>>42284325
I am cautious even with this. I have seen western psyops create troubles in the temple...it could be ok. I'm not too hesitant with this suggestion.
I just don't want psyops to destroy the dispensation. Western intelligence agencies have already created massive damage. It's more dangerous now with the internet.
It's very rare that we should have a Buddha. It's important to act with great care.

What are the best eastern practices?

I'm doing a yoga/meditation routine where I focus on ahimsa/metta, aparigraha (humility), brahmacharya (chastity) and shaucha (Purity, mind clearness). It's very useful.

>>42285618
How do you practice this, anon?

>>42284355
It's important to call out psyops and what they're doing. What sneaky changes they try to make with definitions and doctrine to corrupt and neuter the teachings.

>>42287987
This so much, they are trying to ruin buddhism too now?

>>42287987
I mean yeah it's true. It used to be a lot easier to do that online.
The big issue now a days is they just completely overwhelm a discussion with total bullshit. Trolling has gotten so advanced.
You have to both call it out and not feed into it at the same time.
>>42289810
America and the wider west (Including Russia on this category, I think is appropriate. Even if they are "eurasian") have been trying to ruin Buddhism for decades. It's why there's as many problems as there are modernly.
META is used to flare up ethnic tensions in SEA, specifically to prevent "saffron revolutions" from happening ever again.

Buddhists were at one point legally registered as a death cult in America. That should tell you a lot.

There's a lot on the political end of this I *am* comfortable talking about here. Because it's severe and it has larger impacts beyond just us Buddhists. It effects everyone.

If people have questions about this, I can answer.

>>42289874
I can see it, also a problem is the lack of understanding about what Buddhism actually is.

>>42289894
Oh absolutely. That's why there's so many false Buddhist themed cults out there.
This lack of awareness is purposeful on the part of the west.

We've tried to help educate, but we keep getting pushed back. There's been...god, several years of westerners who pretend to take refuge and then come back with something stripped of all power and or turned into a cult. Alot of the people trying to infuse Buddhism with crap like A.I are direct Epstein plants put abroad. Same thing with the "secular mindfulness", etc.

The infrastructure of Buddhism is prevented from being grown in America and the west. Because if Buddhism were to take root, in a real way, then these countries would undergo extreme rapid fire changes.
It's not like they'd become paradises. But they'd change in striking ways.

This is all to say, there's a lack of understanding because the methods for learning Buddhism and developing it's needed structures, are being purposefully prevented and sabotaged.

>>42289984
It should be noted that, in the time I've taken to actually contribute more (what I feel is safe to do so), we have seen a sudden increase in Buddhism posts.
As I have warned...

>>42268479
I think the idea is that if you meditate with a certain goal in mind, you will either ignore other possible benefits of meditation, or you may see what you want to see without actually achieving anything of real note.
Ergo you must meditate simply for the act of meditation and accept what comes.

For instance, if one meditates with the intention of relaxation, they will inevitably be overly aware of how bad they want to relax, they will feel as though they haven't reached the amount of relaxed as they want as they become anxious about relaxing.
Ergo, one must meditate not to relax but perhaps just as a daily habit and to enjoy the relaxation that comes from it.
It's all kind of mental like that and it gets weird, at least how I understand it, i don't claim to be an expert on Buddhism or meditation.

I have been practicing meditation for about 1.5 years now. I would not claim to be buddhist, I have only done some light reading on his teachings concerning meditation. I have had some truly mind boggling experieces during my short sessions (15 minutes is my usual time). I won't go into too much detail, but I can confidently say that I have had some "religious" experiences on many occasions. I have experienced pure joy to the point that I will have a face full of tears when my alarm goes ending the session. But I seem to keep approaching the same brick wall. There is a recurring experience. I will reach a state where I feel like I am leaving my physical body. I am losing connection with it. I have sat there counting my breath over and over, only to begin feeling like I am not breathing any more. I can not feel my physical form. I feel like I am somewhere else but I do not know where. I begin to feel fear, a complete sense of dread. On multiple occasions I have felt like I was dying at this moment. In retrospect, I considered the possibility of my fear being rooted in losing my grip on the material world and my self identity. But each time I reach this precipice, I always have the same sensations of fear. I can never embrace what is happening, to remain calm and see what lies beyond that moment of fear. I want to be ready to let go of this physical world when I am looking over the ledge, but I can never take the plunge. I feel like I am about to leave behind all of the people in my life, because I truly am about to die in that moment. I dont know how to overcome this, and I am not certain someone can even teach you how. one day I know physical death will come, and I will have to jump, even if I am not ready.

>>42290687
That's perfect, anon. I think meditation is truly a life changer compared to all other practices

>>42290687
>short sessions (15 minutes is my usual time)
anon is a lucky one.

>>42290687
15m a day and you are almost leaving your body? you are golden my friend, just continue the practice and do not fear anything

>>42290171
>perhaps just as a daily habit and to enjoy
Both of which are agendas and intents.

>>42268479
nta
but he's right about anapanasati
the other two are outcomes really and not akshual practices
his point about not expecting anything is that all you may do is arrange the conditions for something to manifest, you may not make it directly manifest
you either arrange the conditions and increase the probability amplitude, or stay with a shitty small probability amplitude which makes advanced phenomena accident perchance they ever arise

>>42272508
>a question for anyone that can consistently access the jhanas. how do you do it, anon?
recognize the importance of awareness and its focus
not on something, not on nothing
but when you get more advanced you need to be able to adjust your midbrain's energy state a bit so as to prevent random thoughts from arising, since the emergence of a random thought will destroy the meditative state
mastering anapanasati imbues quiescence at the neurological level
so dont sniff the air, draw it in with the guts and leave the airways entirely passive
when you restrain the senses properly, the energy they use is instead stored
when a good habit is made of this, then in time a significant amount of energy is stored
this energy drives the ability to take longer breaths
which in turn helps get things quieter
with that well cultivated, then the task becomes cultivating very long chains of ungapped awareness
that is, pay attention for very long times
jhana arise out of these long chains of awareness
master yin, and yang boosts
do it properly and the real spark of spiritual light will come when the focus is in the upper dantien
but be sure to master the lower center and breathing first so that the energy gets used to returning there, for safety
lastly, rote application will yield the quickest and most solid and repeatable results

>>42273818
there's a reason the most serious go innawoods

>>42274994
>The basic stuff is something like microcosmic orbit meditation
MCO is NOT basic stuff
where the fuck do people get these notions from?

>>42279122
>Lastly, if you attain a state you believe is jhana, DO NOT. TALK. ABOUT IT. Do not CLAIM to have it.
while this is good advice and it is difficult to describe so that everyone will understand, once you become the teacher then it is your job to explain these things well

>>42279673
if you are young and your jing isnt blasted af, learn the full lotus stretches
the way the psoas connects to the femur means that when its rotated properly, it straightens the lumbar spine and makes it easier to sit up straight
cultivate properly and long enough and the chi sits you straight up, its one of the milestones of good progress

>>42282565
>Gooned 1-3 times per day for 28 years (since puberty)
guaranteed this guy has a captain picard haircut or shaves his head completely

>>42290687
>But I seem to keep approaching the same brick wall. There is a recurring experience. I will reach a state where I feel like I am leaving my physical body. I am losing connection with it. I have sat there counting my breath over and over, only to begin feeling like I am not breathing any more. I can not feel my physical form.
you need to wait til way later to even start things like leaving your body
your awareness is drifting, this is why this happens
keep your awareness well focused
cultivate long chains of pure awareness
awareness is fundamental to this

Threads going poorly, monitoring before I make my decision.
>>42293682
The purpose of not talking about jhana isn't (just) because it's difficult to describe. It's that making a claim for it is extremely taboo. There's a HUMONGOUS kammic weight that comes with that.

Every time you are speaking, you generate speech kamma. This includes typing. There's a particular kamma that one generates when they speak about things such as Jhana.

If you are lying when you say you have jhana, you produce horrific kamma. This kamma also has disastrous effects on the people you share this with. This networks out into a gigantic mess.

Suppose you are not lying, but are still wrong, the kamma is not much better.

The only time, ever, you should be talking about jhana is in private with either a teacher you trust to verify your experience... Or a spiritual friend you can trust. Even then, you should be very careful.

Otherwise, do not talk about jhana. Do not claim to have it.

>>42293717
Here, for further understanding - here's a list of subjects you should AVOID DISCUSSING.
---
>Psychic powers (siddhi)
Don't claim to have them. If you think (or even know) you have them, don't speak about them.

This is the least "harmful" taboo to speak about.... But still carries dangerous weight. Big danger arises from the fact that people without proper knowledge, become obsessed with these and mistake them as important. They are not. People will then either worship someone on basis of their supposed powers, or they will despise them for it. They will either believe them to be evil for powers, or assume they are lying.

This becomes worse if the practitioner is lying about it.
>Jhana
Speaking about jhana carries a more weight kamma than supernormal powers, because jhana relates to temporary liberation of mind.

If you feed someone bullshit about this, you are directly obstructing their own potential enlightenment. This symbolically also is obstructing your own. If you are deliberately lying about jhana to create fame or wealth, the results are much worse here than lying about siddhi.

Speaking about jhana also to the wrong people at the wrong time, produces the issues we have now. PEOPLE CHARGING UPWARDS SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS TO TEACH "JHANA".

This is monstrously evil karma. Don't speak about jhana with inappropriate people! Don't speak about it at the wrong time! Do not incur an evil kamma on your own person.
>Nibbana
This is the weightiest of these you can commit. Lying about enlightenment is considered "spiritual theft". You aren't simply obstructing another's potential, you are STEALING it.

If you genuinely believe you have liberation, there is still evil kamma generated if one is wrong and knows they may be wrong.
---

Never. Speak. About. Attainments.
The only time it's appropriate is with the right people (spiritual friends you can trust have good wisdom, or a teacher).
That's it.
>>42280470
Yes, exactly.

>>42293717
I get where you're coming from and in general it is good advice for students
but as a teacher, when you've made this manifest hundreds and hundreds or thousands of times, you become very familiar with the signposts that arise, the methods used, etc
even moreso when you've had to do it all over again a whole bunch of separate chunks of practice-time and understand the reasons you had to do so, it just becomes further verification of the method
it becomes important for the student to understand what works and what doesnt, what arranges the conditions properly
most are unaware of the need to learn how to catch the light's arising properly so that it doesnt immediately disappear
most are unaware that a mind completely free of randomly arising thoughts is not only entirely possible, but a side effect of arranging the conditions properly for the light to arise
most are unaware that it is very much a matter of conditioning, and when the conditioning is good, it leads to the light arriving every day like clockwork
these claims are difficult for a beginner to verify, but you can rest assured that every teacher of mine has given the nod if not jumped and clapped with glee at these insights
I dont need to worry about the karma of it because these things are verifiably true, it is the bodhisattva's path to spread the teachings

>>42293767
>PEOPLE CHARGING UPWARDS SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS TO TEACH "JHANA".
now see, that's a crime
problematic trying to rely on spiritualism to support yourself
I have a good job and I teach that stuff for free
because it is human birthright in my view

>>42293767
As a final note...
>When is it right to talk about attainments?
1. With right people (spiritual friends or teacher).
2. At the right place (in a practice setting. Not with a random)
>How can one speak correctly about attainments?
If you aren't in points one or two, it's almost never correct to talk about attainments.

The exclusion would be doing something like sharing a meditation manual that covers the attainments (jhana, vipassana, siddhi, Nibbana).

Speaking in a technical matter on how to achieve attainments is alright, but should be rooted, verifiably, in the teaching and still not ever claim that one has achieved an attainment.
>Is it alright to speak about spirits?
Yes. As long as you aren't doing it to claim attainments, it's fine. Seeing spirits is the bottom rung of strange phenomenon and is considered "mundane" in heritage Buddhist communities.
As long as you aren't lying and or using it to claim special attainments, it's alright.

>>42293819
siddhis are something I cover very briefly
bottom line: they are outcomes of the yang style practices one undertakes, they shape the expressions
the highest amplitudes are borne of a good mix of yin and yang
but yang style practices do not build much yin
conversely, yin style practices wind up seeing yang easily rise to match its level
fundamental aspects such as this are good to cover with students

>>42293796
>and hundreds or thousands of times, you become very familiar with the signposts that arise, the methods used, etc
A true teacher, who has actual lineage, will almost NEVER MAKE A CLAIM FOR HAVING AN ATTAINMENT.
There are very, very few scenarios where this is acceptable. Even the Buddha was hesitant about this and only did so in the absolute most correct time and place.

When you are teaching, you teach by example. It's not wrong conduct to teach the student in a practical manner how to achieve the attainments.

You only need worry about making claims, or even displays, of attainments.
>I dont need to worry about the karma of it because these things are verifiably true, it is the bodhisattva's path to spread the teachings
You should always, always be acting appropriately when it comes to the teachings. Time & place are very important considerations when sharing teachings and how to share them.

Again, though, this is about ATTAINMENT CLAIMS. Which, are almost always, inappropriate.

Giving practical advice that can be traced back through a verified lineage, is fine.

>>42293842
how is one to teach things like the subtle ways of handling the arising light without the implied claim that one has attained it, lol
that is of course a rather advanced stage of paying attention
but people just ask plenty often
of course much of this is to be found in the suttas, but when its buried and encoded, most will never see it
I view these threads as our own little non-persistent spiritual cultivation group
keeping the teachings hidden will only hasten the dharma ending age

>>42293835
You're proving the point I'm making.
This is not how Buddhists teach siddhi...at all. We do use yin/yang terminology and subtle energy teachings, but this isn't how we frame it. East Asian Buddhists who are more commonly familiar with these phrases have a somewhat different structuring.

It's very misleading to claim that this is something you should cover with students wholesale, even if briefly.

We do consider the energy balance important, but that's absolutely not where we start off at.

>>42292139
yes, it has taught me many things. I think every person on earth should make an earnest attempt.
>>42292954
it doesn't happen nearly every time. some days I just sit there uncomfortably, forcing myself to embrace the discomfort. I have had a lot of uncomfortable experiences both physically and mentally, and I try to always see it through. the timer helps, I know it will eventually bail me out. but usually each session ends on a positive note. spending 5-10mins stretching beforehand is part of my ritual and I think it is useful. preparing myself the same way each session is important to me.
>>42293703
it is not ever my intention to leave my body. without going into the details of my intentions, I just sit there counting my breath and this is a phenomenon that will occur on occasion. it's like a gradual shift in perception. I am aware that I am sitting in my home. I am aware that I am breathing. I take note of this awareness. I am hesitant to go into great detail about what I begin to experience (it is very personal to me), but I begin to feel like I am sitting in my home, and I am also in another place at the same time (among other sensations). there are a lot of other things I'd like to discuss about my experiences but I don't want to influence others, or have people think I am full of shit because my experiences are different than their own.

>>42293861
>how is one to teach things like the subtle ways of handling the arising light without the implied claim that one has attained it, lol
Do XYZ.
Done. Easy. No need to say "btw I have attained this". A brief look at manuals written by established Buddhist teachers show that they do not make attainment claims hardly ever.

If you're implying you've attained jhana, your teaching methodology is faulty. Anyone who feels any sort of need to say or imply they have an attainment is not trustworthy in the slightest. It's perfectly easy to teach how to achieve an attainment without simultaneously claiming it.

There is a time & place where it MAY be acceptable, but rarely does it ever arise. If you have to ask, you have no business making such claims.
>keeping the teachings hidden will only hasten the dharma ending age
No one ever said anything about keeping them hidden flatout. There's a league of difference between CLAIMING AN ATTAINMENT vs GIVING PRACTICAL ADVICE, DIRECTLY FROM THE TEACHINGS.

The latter also includes doing so at the right TIME and PLACE. which means not sharing teachings people aren't ready for.

>>42293864
>This is not how Buddhists teach siddhi
ah, you've touched on the main point of why your quip that you shouldnt discuss buddhism on /x/ is a thing
every sect of buddhism has "the way they do things" (and by that I mean "the one and only proper way to do x, y or z") and any deviations from it almost always engender the shit storm until people just leave the thread out of disgust
everything needs to be done in its own particular and certain way otherwise its wrong and the most steadfast of the rule arbiters throw a shit fit and more or less push people away from buddhism in general
I'm not surprised to see this behavior, its pretty much expected

>>42293889
>DIRECTLY FROM THE TEACHINGS.
another highlight of the faultiness of present day buddhism sects
one may only reference suttas otherwise its wrong, faulty, etc, etc
its just an offense to the absolutely rule minded to frame aspects of the teachings in one's own words as they relate to his own experiences in practice
personal anecdote and how things are described are generally how I gauge whether or not a person has really done something or if they are just regurgitating pieces of sutta and dropping them on the floor like they are Neil DgT dropping the mic to prove gravity
these are among the reasons I dont claim to be a buddhist, despite having affinity for the buddhas

>>42264108
BUDDHA SKULL FUCKED THOSE THREE BITCHES AYE!!

>>42293889
Also, let's revisit this. Giving westerners teachings they weren't ready for is what has hastened the dhamma ending age. Westerners want to treat the dhamma like Christianity and they've destroyed much infrastructure because of it.

Westerners and westernized people are obsessed with ladder climbing. Obsessed with claiming attainments because of it. They are extremely neurotic and refuse to learn the basics of the dhamma, because they want to ladder climb the religion as if we were corporate franchise.

They are refusing over and over again to start with the basics. They want access to extremely subtle teachings, without any of the preparatory grounds to understand and integrate those.

This is not acceptable. Buddhism is not Christianity. Westerners cannot keep bringing Christian practices - such as attainment claims - into the dhamma. They can't keep bringing their protestantism, demanding that dhamma should be treated the way martin luther treated Christianity.

We are a practice religion. We are not Christianity! Westerners need to understand Buddhist practice authentically, and not keep trying to modify it in accordance to the bias inherited from Christianity.

>>42293883
dont pay attention to the scenery
dont pay attention to sights, sounds, feelings, feelings of being elsewhere, etc
keep the awareness focused where it belongs
if you think additional detail would help us give you advice, go for it, if you know you're being truthful then who gives af about a troll trying to accost you for it
what you experience is one of the reasons it is proper to teach at an early stage, to know where the seat of awareness is, the source of the "I" thought
try to keep your focus in this place, there's no need to count breaths or anything
just keep the attention unwavering at the upper dantien
and be sure to relax and do appropriate closings to the session

>>42293898
I have no clue what you're trying to gesture here. I've been very direct the entire time. I always say the same thing in every thread.

1. Buddhism is an orthopraxy. We are very focused on correct practice.
2. Buddhism ≠ Christianity.

Buddhism is not a sandbox like protestantism where you can make up wherever you want and it's perfectly acceptable. It's also not Catholicism/orthodoxy where everything revolves around whatever correct identity-belief you have.

We are not Christians. If someone has disgust at the fact that correct practice is central to Buddhism, they have no business being Buddhist.

Westerners need to learn to let go of the christianized culture they've inherited if they want to learn Buddhism.

>>42293926
> Giving westerners teachings they weren't ready for is what has hastened the dhamma ending age
stupid shit like this just causes arguments in these threads
spreading the teachings is causing the dharma ending age
ffs that's some facepalm
anyone who's done their homework knows that the entire reason Christians are oft attempting to include spiritual practices from other traditions is because their tradition was sterilized very shortly after it began and has been led down a side path as if they were the band being led around by the Stork in the animal house parade

>>42293915
>another highlight of the faultiness of present day buddhism sects
one may only reference suttas otherwise its wrong, faulty, etc, etc
That's not what is meant by "from the teachings".
This shows, very clearly, that your only familiarity with Buddha dhamma is from westernized presentations of it ...which are completely inauthentic 98% of the time.

Buddhism is not a religion of sola scriptura. The suttas are not a bible.

Buddhists in heritage communities do not regurgitate the suttas, as you put it. There's a practical and embodied way we go about things in our settings, when discussing the path... Especially with our teacher.
>these are among the reasons I dont claim to be a buddhist, despite having affinity for the buddhas
...??? If you're not Buddhist, that's fine.
But if that's the case, it means you have absolutely zero business trying to teach people about Buddhism or Buddhist concepts.

I'm a bit mystified that you spent all this time talking about something you apparently have no connection to at all.

>>42293945
>I have no clue what you're trying to gesture here
I'm telling you what your behavior is and its effects and how this is a very common thing because of people who behave as you are
>We are very focused on correct practice.
good and proper and I stress this all the time
> Buddhism ≠ Christianity
I'm at a loss to figure out why you felt the need to interject this
Christianity has no real spiritual practices and most of them are taught its the debil to even attempt them
>if you write about your practice and how it relates to the teachings, you're just making up whatever you want
gay sectarian bullshit
>let me mention christians again
try to stay on topic, I guess?

>>42293964
>accomplished spiritual practitioners have no business discussing practice fundamentals with buddhists
more sectarian bullshit
>you apparently have no connection at all to any of this
this is you reading what you want to interpret out of my words
again, sectarians that behave as you are, are a big cause of the dharma ending age, because if its not done how you think it should be done then you start being a pain in the ass about trivial matters

>>42293966
>I'm telling you what your behavior is and its effects and how this is a very common thing because of people who behave as you are
No, you aren't.
>good and proper and I stress this all the time
No, you don't. You even admitted as such here
>, you've touched on the main point of why your quip that you shouldnt discuss buddhism on /x/ is a thing
every sect of buddhism has "the way they do things" (and by that I mean "the one and only proper way to do x, y or z") >>42293898
>I'm at a loss to figure out why you felt the need to interject this
because you are very clearly a western person who has no actual familiarity with Traditional Buddhism, and is bringing in biases they have inherited from the west on how they approach and understand Buddhism
>gay sectarian bullshit
Oh, ok, so you're trolling.
You feigned focusing on practice being good to agree with me and present yourself as being more reasonable than you actually are. Then within the same post, you literally contradict yourself. You literally ignore the fact that I said Buddhism is an orthopraxy, where you can't just make up whatever you want like protestantism.

You're clearly trolling.

>>42293975
I'm not responding to any of that beyond this.
1. You admitted already you're not a Buddhist.
2. If you're not a Buddhist, why are you talking about it?
3. You have very clearly demonstrated that, because you are not a Buddhist, your only familiarity with Buddhism is through western dialogue on suttanta that is protestantized nonsense.
4. You admitted you're not a Buddhist. This is (supposed) to be a Buddhism thread. Why should anyone listen to someone talk about Buddhism if he has no continuity with it?

You are both not Buddhist and are claiming to be an "accomplished spiritual practitioner".

You are the meme I was warning about.

>>42293979
>your observation of my behavior is not valid, because I said so
>I have no way to ascertain how often or not you stress proper practice but I will project what I think and call it correct
>I'll double down on this and include a lie and say you admitted to this
>you dont call yourself a buddhist so you clearly know nothing of buddhism
>I'll lie again and say you merely feigned a good focus on practice
>since I'm lying a lot I'll make up one more lie and say you're contradicting yourself
>I like to lie, so all your words are now you just making up stuff
hahaha, holy shit
this dude has a big stick up his ass to the point where he will make up lies to support his position
I used to be part of a lay sangha years ago that was destroyed by having people like you in the group, everything went swimmingly until these couple assholes had to nitpick everything down to the way the fucking gong was being struck, turned everyone off, sangha disbanded
after watching shit like that there was no need to call myself a buddhist
affinity for the buddhas and their teachings, quite sufficient
and my teachings are all perfectly in accord with the buddha's
despite cranky asswipes like you saying they are completely invalid because I'm not quoting suttas
wew lad
you are the dharma ending meme, turning people the fuck off to buddhism
but you dont care because you're a racist asian that's mad buddhism ever came to the west
you should get right with yourself and observe those teachings a little more thoroughly, my guy

>>42284313
This is really good, thanks. By living in the world, I mean work a regular job, marry, etc.
With practice, because other objects are not scorned or rejected when attention is turned back to the breath or other preferred object, is the result that Anon's awareness is expanded? If so, does this meditation progress from a sitting meditation to a dynamic meditation that continues as one appears to go about one's daily business?

For instance, suppose that Anon is following a deer track in the forest. It is difficult to keep hold of the track while looking at only one spot at a time, so he takes in the whole field of view at once, from the periphery to the center. Many other things thus arise, and his other senses open up. He sees small animal runs, hears individual bird calls, and feels the presence of creatures out of sight. But his fixed intention is the deer track, which begins to shine in his vision, making it an effortless matter to follow. In this state, thoughts become quieter and a feeling of inner joy begins to well up. Is this it?

When Buddhists attend to the breath, is it the breath of the flesh or the prana? Or does the attention begin on the breath of the flesh and then naturally expand into the prana?
Is it just as well, or perhaps better, to attend not to any object, but to consciousness?

>>42294054
>When Buddhists attend to the breath, is it the breath of the flesh or the prana? Or does the attention begin on the breath of the flesh and then naturally expand into the prana?
think of this in a signal to noise ratio frameset
without refining the body, the noise floor will be above the height of the signal
refine the body, lower the noise floor, and the signal emerges
once it can be clearly identified, then its more appropriate to work with
>Is it just as well, or perhaps better, to attend not to any object, but to consciousness?
once the breath is refined then its basically a game of keeping the awareness
as I said earlier itt, jhana arise out of these long chains of awareness-focus
always focus on the fundamentals that produce the phenomena, not the phenomena themselves

>>42293932
thank you for the input. i believe i will keep some things to myself for the time being, and i will try to incorporate your advice. reading through this thread has shown me how uneducated i am in these matters. what do you mean by this?

>appropriate closings to the session

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>>42294012
ok

>>42294295
when you are done with a session, as part of closing...
return energy to the gut
do things like rub meridian lines, brush your hands over your head, across forehead, down cheeks, neck, rub hands down the yang channels of the arms & legs
its never a good idea to leave chi hanging around
when you raise it by whatever means, always return it
simply body awareness and these physical contact things are simple, straightforward, easy, and accomplish the task

>>42294363
great projection and continuance of non precept behavior
real original idea too, I totally havent seen that meme in 52 other formats already

>>42293987
Hi, I am this anon >>42284325.
I think you're right, it would be better to not start a general here. Have a nice day.

>>42294523
Unfortunately agree, yeah... people just aren't ready yet

purist zealots will always be the #1 reason it is a bad idea to have buddhism threads here
it is this way pretty much everywhere buddhist conversations take place online

>>42294911
And yet you freaks will still try instead of leaving everyone alone.

>>42294911
Nah man, it's you. You always do the same thing: interject with your opinion, get called out for being non-buddhist (you don't even hide the use of daoist terminology), and end everything with ad-hominem insults and I'm right, you're wrong. Or say "You don't know nothing, you don't have tasted samadhi like I did".
If you want so much to be read, start your own threads, don't get into buddhist-specific ones and then get jumpy and start name calling because the anons posting are buddhist!

>>42296224
bull shit
I gave relevant advice on cultivation related matters and here I am with zealots attacking me
not that you guys really talk much about cultivation at any rate
religious zealots of any flavor are mostly all alike
proven every single one of these threads

>>42296254
What exactly is cultivation?

>>42293675
it's a foundational/fundamental practice
where the fuck do *you* get your notions from?

>>42297326
you're a novice with 1 year under his belt, or a straight up zoomer if you think MCO is a basic practice
this is coming from every teacher I ever had and half the books on the subject
dont ever recommend that as a "basic" practice
there's a lot of work to be done before one is ready for it
the MCO opens by virtue of the dantiens and pretty much no amount of doing the circulating exercise will cause it to open
you'd understand this if you werent a total greenhorn making greenhorn comments

can i just start meditating many hours a day to bruteforce enlightenment? i have already had a non-dual awakening of sorts two years ago that permanently altered my perception of the self. but i have not been meditating much since then

>>42296224
Honestly, the daoist terminology wouldn't even be a huge problem in of itself. We are known to use and integrate daoist practices ...same way we integrate animist, etc. Buddhism is a very practical religion.

The issue with the guy is he's not Buddhist (as mentioned) and also an attainment claimer. He got upset when he was told Buddhists don't attainment claim, because not being able to go around saying he's gotten jhana or Nibbana and is Accomplished Spiritual Practitioner puts him at odds with his ability to make conversations about himself.

Attainment claimers cause all sorts of problems. One of them is that they obstruct the ability to talk about Buddhist PRACTICE.....at all. Have you ever seen those western communities full of attainment claimers? They're always talking about themselves all the time. They MAY give meditation advice, but it never goes anywhere, because it's ultimately about how special the claimant is. Not really how to end your suffering as BUDDHISTS understand it.

This sort of thing blocks up any meaningful discussion on how to practice BUDDHISM at all. It's directly counter to it.

>>42298541 #
1. Don't attainment claim
2. Kinda

As a reminder this is a BUDDHIST THREAD. Being a Buddhist I will give a BUDDHIST answer....

Everything in Buddhism builds off of each other. It's like a puzzle, if you're missing a piece, it's not gonna be finished without it.
You need to follow the whole 8fold path. That means observing basic sila (5 precepts). Those ethical practices are fundamental.
If you're doing that, then your meditation will eventually pay off. If you're missing these, you'll be "scattering sand". The good kamma you build from the practice will accumulate, but it'll get scattered before it can become liberating kamma.

>>42298632
There's really two words that people should acquaint themselves with if they wanna understand Buddhist practice.

>Dukkha
Rough, dissatisfying, suffering
>Sukha
Easy, satisfying, pleasure

The reason to associate yourself with these is that they are Buddhist meme slang. They work on a polarity. Both of them refer to a "wheel" (yes, like the wheel of samsara).
Dukkha is the wheel turning roughly or feeling stuck.
Sukha is the wheel turning smoothly and having a pleasant ride.

Buddhism is a path of letting go. You're letting go of what gives rise to Dukkha, and instead cultivating what gives rise to wholesome Sukha. Something that leads eventually to the bliss of Nibbana.

If you want enlightenment, you need to make sure that your wheel is rolling properly. Doing that means following the entire path, not following only some of it.

>>42298556
>>42298632
>>42298632
You are such a beautiful motherfucker. Thank you for spending your time and explaining things to us (I'm a filthy westerner lul)

Extra thanks for touching on attainment claim topic. I'm glad I learned about it

<3

>>42298999
Namo _/\_ it's no problem man.
>(I'm a filthy westerner lul)
No need to insult yourself. People aren't bad for being westerners. The issue with the west is that the culture is destructive and harmful. If/when people living in the west can realize that, they can grow past that and create something beautiful.
>Extra thanks for touching on attainment claim topic. I'm glad I learned about it
Np!
Decision is still out on whether or not we will cultivate a general and I'll supply deeper information.... But for now will keep sharing authentic information on a surface level until/unless the thread dies (or is overwhelmed with bullshit).

>>42299063
So, Buddha is an archetype. Does this mean that when they are here on earth, the archetype itself is incarnated?

And on a similar note, a question about emanations. When an emanation of Buddha is on earth, like Guru Rinpoche, does this mean it's the same archetype? Or is it a regular human soul somehow catching a bit of the Buddha archetype?

>>42300372
>Buddha is an archetype
Yesn't.
Buddha(s) are TECHNICALLY an archetype. This is kinda funky to describe....consider them manifestations of enlightened mind. This is very different from the standard archetype.
>Does this mean that when they are here on earth, the archetype itself is incarnated?
Buddhas are not ever reborn into samsara again. They can, however, create emanations.
Consider a Buddha, even one who may possess a living form still, to be like a tree without any roots. They appear in the world, but are not "rooted" in it. This is where the finger pointing at the moon metaphor comes into handy.
>And on a similar note, a question about emanations. When an emanation of Buddha is on earth, like Guru Rinpoche, does this mean it's the same archetype? Or is it a regular human soul somehow catching a bit of the Buddha archetype?

There's no soul in Buddhism.

Far as emanations, the idea is kinda hard to get into without playing my hand too much. The idea revolves around the concept of emptiness (sunnata), dependent-origination (paticcasamupada) & no self (Anatta)

Emanations are the arising of the enlightened mind, in a particular kind of "flavor".

What you're referring to is called a (tulku) in tibetan format. When someone is practicing esoteric meditation, identifying with a Buddha, they become that Buddha.

This is possible because (anatta). Your realization of no self leads you to taking on the "flavor" of the Buddha you chose.

>>42300509
As a final note on this... Consider emanations to be like taking a crystal prism and shining a light through it. Doing so produced a variety of smaller lights shining throughout it.

None of these are technically the same light. They are also not different.
Hope that helps.

>>42298541
you have to make the light arise before it can become persistent
good habituation is very helpful
turn down the yang of the senses until it transforms into yin
the light arises out of good focus
paying attention but not to any one thing
cultivate long chains of unbroken awareness
do this well and you're on your way

>>42298556
what else am I to do when explaining how to make the light arise than smile and shrug at you guys, and also your labels

>>42294363
This is a sad issue that most Western people face. But Buddhism allows one to overcome those limitations thanks to the sutras

For anyone who engages in modern meditation methods, can you explain how those methods will enlighten you?
I hold a view that those methods do very little, if not simply outright confuse you, rather than enlighten you.
Buddha constantly spoke of putting an end to the assumption that any conditioned thing can be permanent or a self. I don't see how meditation experiences can change those views, because you'll take whatever special experience you have to be some permanent thing. The goal should be to uproot the entire habit of assuming any experience to be permanent, including meditation experiences.
This can be accomplished by no longer acting in ways that reinforce the assumption of a self/permanence (greed, hatred, and delusion), and by reflecting on the unownability of things so as to permanently end that assumption. Focusing meditation practices have nothing to do with that, and simply serve to reinforce notions of permanence.

What is Buddhism? You mean Juddhism?

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>>42301939
That doesn't exist, anon. There is only the word of the mighty Buddha

>>42302553
I was making a jokey joke. I think the Buda tribe and the Judah tribe are the one and the same.

>>42302577
Totally mistaken. First of all buddhists don't move in tribes and are asian, nothing related to those inferior judeahns

>>42302649
Buda was "Indo-European" (which actually is Asian to be honest, despite claims to the contrary). Judah is too.

>>42302774
>which actually is Asian to be honest, despite claims to the contrary
Proof? Or are you just talking out of your ass? Asians are simply better philosophers and understand the supernatural elements better than Western people.

>>42302811
>Asians are simply better philosophers and understand the supernatural elements better than Western people.
Kek, and you think I'm talking out of my ass.
>Proof?
The movement of peoples for the past 3000 years speaks for itself. The steppe people and the European natives are two different peoples.
You seem to think that Asian = slant eyes or something, but Dravidians are also Asian and don't have those eyes.
Here's an idea that's going to really explode your mind: there are more than three races. Asian is not a race.

>>42279273
>That's the absolute minimum for a lay person who wants to seriously cultivate jhana.
I did it with keeping 4 precepts. But it took a lot of time. Like 5 years. More you can do is better less is worse but it doesnt make it impossible.

>>42300509
>>42300586
Huge thanks, again. I didn't even know I can find a teacher in here.

So, a hypothetical question. Let's say a practioner sees the tree of life while meditating: first in normal form, then without the roots, just like you described. What could it mean? Where could one read more on this topic?

>>42280429
Buddha said "If you dont understand all is mind you wont be enlightened". As you follow your practice you understand the mind and you understand everything.

Buddhism makes you understand everything.

>>42303058
>So, a hypothetical question. Let's say a practioner sees the tree of life while meditating: first in normal form, then without the roots, just like you described.
dont pay attention to the scenery

>>42299063
I have learned a lot from this thread. Discussion on 4chan is problematic as you said but it is at the same time very powerful.

>>42302811
>I'm a devout buddhist but its just fine to be a racist, speak in such generalizations and put my status above others

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>>42302836
>there are more than three races
there's at least 6-7 human species
race is some construct to try and say we're all one species when we're clearly not

>>42303913
But of course! I trace my bloodline back to the original people who started Buddhism in Asia.
>>42302836
>The movement of peoples for the past 3000 years speaks for itself
The REAL asians never stepped out of the region. They developed philosophy, modern world culture and Buddhism in their region and we have an isolationist policy for a reason, to avoid supernatural corruption from oni coming from the west.

>>42303058
It means basically nothing.

Again, this is a difference between Buddhists and western culture. Westerners, due to their Christian inheritance, put alot of emphasis on visions seen. They get very very obsessive with this to the point it's destructive to their own person.

Buddhist advice? ignore visions.
>>42303695
Happy to help.
Like I said, 4chan could become the most powerful force for good in the world if people cared enough. One of the big issues is getting past the trolling-psyops.

Since I was gone that other guy started trolling at being me, to degrade the value of what I'm saying.

>>42304093
Can you suggest me temples in Thailand to go and talk about my questions? For a westerner ofc.

>>42304093
Also, just as an aside - I'm not a teacher and I'm not worthy of that title right now. Maybe in a few years when I've finished ordination.

All I am is someone who wants to help out as much as I can. So I share the information I have available, where appropriate. If it helps, I'm happy.

On the other end of the spectrum, to anyone here who has genuine interest in what's being shared... please ignore all the race and "species" talk above.
This is part of the issue I'm talking about when it comes to westerners. Western spiritual discussions tend to devolve into total garbage revolving around;
>Identity belief (race/bloodlines/souls/etc)
>Eternalism (there is some ultimate principle underlying reality that is super important & lasts forever )
>Annihilationism (lol I do whatever I want, nothing matters and I'm gonna stop existing someday)
>Himsa worship/ritualism (if I just hurt this one type of person and commit enough violence, everything will be exactly the way I want)

Westerners are typically very, very neurotic. This leads them to adopting and promoting extremist views and practices.

If you want to understand Buddha dhamma, you have to be willing to leave this crap behind and not pick it up again. >>42304110
Personal recommendation? Start off going to the forest temples. They tend to have English monks. Wat pah nanachat is the standard.

That will get your foot in the door. But you should really learn thai & pali while doing that. Once you learn Thai/pali, go visit other temples and keep asking questions.

The problem with English temples is they tend to feel the need to westernize to acclimate you. Once you have your foot in the door and have a solid understanding, you'll be able to learn way more than your average westerner. Opens you up to the more advanced and interesting stuff.

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>>42304093
>Buddhist advice? ignore visions.
Not just Buddhist advice, pic related; but it is not *modern* Christian advice.
I have a Carmelite spiritual background and am gaining a lot from the quality posts itt. But I have to concur that 4chan is not ready

>>42304353
Agreed. Visions are just lies conjured by a mind afraid of being free

>>42268266
Agreed, there is only the way

>>42304093
>Since I was gone that other guy started trolling at being me, to degrade the value of what I'm saying.
if you're seriously on a path to being ordained, you're going to have to drop petty projections
dont sully the good parts of what you're doing with being a douchebag, its unbecoming of one who would purport to train for buddhahood

I tried meditating the other day and I felt contacting the Buddha itself. My body was filled with a powerful sensation like I could be one with the universe and I felt so light and powerful...what does that mean, anon_

>>42307575
How do you know that wasn't the demiurge?

>>42296254
pretty sure a bunch of us lurkers are lapping up your posts. you're one of if not the only one who posts practical advice and its inherent in how you talk you are real. just saying this to signal encouragement and that the loudmouth legalists are just a bunch of screaming banshee minority

I dont need Nirvana i have the Holy Spirit

>>42309211
That's just a weak imitation

>>42268479
What have you gained during meditation and how have you gained it? I also believe that the whole expect nothing and is in a way bullshit. Same for people who want to destroy their ego and that's it. I think the ego is something that you can modify, but it's not something you should get rid of completely.

>>42309216
my thoughts are that they complement each other. the unconditioned state can be given a divine orientation by the holy spirit.

>>42309216
>>42309229
A man cannot attain holiness or divinity without the help of God or Christ the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and is therefore superior to any spirituality created by man individually

>>42309236
Just delusions christcucks like to tell themselves. That supposed holy spirit is just a weak bitch

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>>42309300
Jesus would Evangelize Gautama Buddha i will evangelize any Buddhist i meet

>>42309207
namaste fren
the thing is, intellectualisms arent really going to help one make much of any progress
they'll perhaps help get rid of blockers to being able to perform cultivation well
but they will not further spiritual cultivation itself, since thinking is antithetical to progress while seated

>>42309236
this is the kind of post that doesnt belong itt
go make a jesus christ thread and talk about that stuff

>>42264108
OP claims to be Moslem.
Says he wants to talk about Buddhism.
Posts picture of Greek or Roman deity.

Either OP is confused or he is shit-posting.

A thread died for this.

>>42309356
Jesus was a weak bitch who died for nothing. Buddha actually transcended and left the path for others to follow. Buddha could karate chop jesus any day!

>>42303538
What are good books to start into buddhism?

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>>42310540
There are many good videos and channels if you want to familiarize yourself with the different branches and core concepts. It will be less confusing when you start to read.

https://youtu.be/5oWABFaDXYk
https://youtu.be/NS5CYMGDMKY
https://youtu.be/ryZp2UOobP8
https://youtu.be/jQHNYR8xj5s

>>42279122
>Lastly, if you attain a state you believe is jhana, DO NOT. TALK. ABOUT IT. Do not CLAIM to have it. This is a karmic MINEFIELD.
Could you please explain further?

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>>42310540
>What are good books to start into buddhism?
Why not go to the original sources: Pali canon? If I wanted to "start into" Christianity I would read the gospels.
>>42310247
>Jesus was a weak bitch who died for nothing. Buddha actually transcended
No. All the awakened ones should be respected. That includes the prophets, sages, and saints from all traditions.
>>42279122
>Lastly, if you attain a state you believe is jhana, DO NOT. TALK. ABOUT IT. Do not CLAIM to have it. This is a karmic MINEFIELD.
At bhumi eight you realize the truth. bhumis nine and ten, which are optional and based on factors of individual capability, involve speaking, sharing, and spreading the dharma. Nine and ten are about the perfection of teaching, and are outward focused.

>>42311776
>original sources
What are the original sources?

>>42312047
you can start here:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/begin.html

also:
https://suttacentral.net/introduction?lang=en

if you want a real monk talking about buddhism and connections to modern topics, you can try Yuttadhammo Bhikku:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEAF1C6352D4F61F9

>>42312105
Thanks for the help, anon! I love the idea of buddhism and want to get better at it

Did we all get practice in today?

>>42310540
This channel is a gold mine.

https://www.youtube.com/@SamaneriJayasara

>>42311776
Don't claim you have bhumis.
Secondly, yes. But that is in relation to sharing & teaching the dhamma at the right time & place, according to the disposition of sentient beings. It doesn't mean proselytizing and just giving out information willy nilly. Time & place are very very important in Buddhism when it comes to if something can or should be shared and if it is legitimately helpful for it to be shared.
The Buddha shared dhamma with everyone, but he also was silent when it was appropriate to be silent.
>Pic
I do like that pic alot.
>>42311673
Buddhism is very direct about this. Claiming that you have jhana, or other spiritual attainments of that nature, is very dangerous kamma.
If you're lying, you are creating horrific kamma for yourself.
If you arent TRYING to lie but are wrong, you're still creating very bad kamma. Especially if you know on some level you could be wrong.

Claiming attainments is almost never a good idea on a kamma level. It can cause severe blowback to yourself and to others who follow you on the basis of what you claim. Attainments relating to nibbana (jhana, bhumi, nibbana, certain siddhis, paramita & samupattis) have the most serious kamma.

The kamma is so disastrous when you are lying/wrong because in effect you are "stealing" the potential for buddhahood from others. It is also symbolically "stealing" it from yourself, creating a deliberate obstacle in your path until such time that you've exhausted that kamma. Which can take many, many kalpas depending on what you claimed and how often or severely you used that false claim.

As such, Buddhists do not talk about attainments, except in the right time & place. Which is not here.

>>42313741
>dont talk about these aspects of buddhism in a thread about buddhism
you've already posted this like 3x itt

>>42313843
yeah its tiring. youd think hed take his own advice about "time and place".

>>42264108
> im a shia muslim
okay
>but my second religion is theravada buddhism
so your not a muslim?

>>42313843
You are simplifying what I said because you want to claim attainments and disrupt others.
Never said you couldn't talk about these things. Have very specifically said you should not claim to have them.
Which, frankly, shouldn't be a problem. Unless of course you're the non Buddhist who's been haunting this thread and has been upset that he got pointed out for his LARP.

>>42314055
>You are simplifying what I said because you want to claim attainments and disrupt others.
so now in response you're going to simplify the things I've said, augment wherever you see fit, and tell people something untruthful
people asked some questions regarding advanced matters
your response was well you just shouldnt talk about this stuff and nevermind those questions
I actually had a response and said this response is not hearsay, it is direct personal experience
this matters BECAUSE it is direct personal experience, to talk about it being direct experience necessarily means I am saying I have attained the things I'm talking about
and your response to that is
>WAHHHHHH YOU ARE CLAIMING ATTAINMENTS
you've got 3 inches of dust on your mirror, you are having a very difficult time seeing yourself & your actions clearly
instead of focusing on the process or practice, you've got a stick up your ass about other things entirely
a good substantial portion of buddhists like you, do you even cultivate?
you dont want to talk about cultivation, you have no helpful sauce for cultivators, you want to pontificate about suttas and pat yourself on the back for it

>>42314055
my big problem is that your approach and advice really only applies to dealing with practitioners mental blocks to cultivation and basically nothing else

>>42314081
>this matters BECAUSE it is direct personal experience, to talk about it being direct experience necessarily means I am saying I have attained the things I'm talking about
That's a totally bullshit excuse and we both know that. Quit trolling and get serious. Buddhists have been teaching since Buddha died over two thousand years ago, how to have the attainments, without needing to explicitly say or even imply "oh btw I HAVE JHANA AND AM AN ARAHANT 10TH BHUMI BODHISATTVA MAHASATTVA WITH EVERY SIDDHI".

If you knew anything about us in the slightest, which you don't, you wouldve known that established teachers aren't just quoting from a sutta or meditation manual. They are teaching from experience. They have no need to claim during that time they have an attainment, it's not necessary in 98% of cases.

You are not a Buddhist. You have no actual interest in Buddhism. Whether or not YOU'RE teaching from experience doesn't matter. The fact is that your interest is in having other people perceive you as The 4chan Guru who is Very Very Special. Just ignore the fact he has literally no continuity with Buddhism and openly admitted so many times.

The fact you are so desperate for other people to accept your neo-daoist LARP and your attainment claims should be a major red flag. It should be an even more major red flag that in your desperation to have some kind of silly authority over Buddhist matters, you directly compared yourself to ACTUAL BUDDHAS and said in effect that your teachings are the same as theirs, thus people interested in Buddhism should listen to you.

Every time you've been criticized, you rely on the most basic level of trolling possible and then reiterate throughout your insults and outright lies, that you HAVE TO SAY YOU HAVE ATTAI MENTS1!1!1! THATS THE ONLY WAY!!!!1!1!

it's all LARP. None of what you say is serious and it also isn't helpful.
(Cont)

>>42314154
You can't handle being criticized, so you freak out. You can't handle being told you're not supposed to claim attainments when you're teaching, because it can directly fuck over both you and the student from the Buddhist POV - but you don't like that because you can't play I'm The Best Guru. So you get upset and start insulting others and saying no, no I GOTTA do this!

You talk and talk about cultivation, but you don't have anything actually helpful to share. Because what you did share, is completely tied up into the image you're trying to craft as an anonymous poster, of being this wonderful sage.

Further your hypocrisy becomes more luminous in its absurdity, when you complain about supposed stumbling blocks to teaching dhamma (something you have no qualification to do) vs your incessant need to turn the thread towards your ability to roleplay. You talk about intellectualism and quoting suttas as a complaint on my character. I haven't quoted a sutta once through the entire discussion.

For someone who complains as much as you do about being inhibited from cultivation topics, you are yourself the problem preventing anyone from talking about it. Because every time we try to do so, you manage to bring it back to yourself and your roleplaying.

You are and remain the problem. You are the exact person I was warning about. The moment you came in, the quality of the discussion tanked. Since you started posting, nobody has gotten a chance to talk about anything Buddhism related in depth.

Surprise surprise, you are a non Buddhist and you have indicated multiple times you don't respect us. You are deliberately shitting up the thread.

>>42314154
>established teachers aren't just quoting from a sutta or meditation manual. They are teaching from experience.
so basically, exactly what I was doing
>Whether or not YOU'RE teaching from experience doesn't matter.
>you're just giving advice and teaching to inflate your ego
ahahahahahaha ok buddy
>you compared yourself to akshual buddhas
I literally said that my teachings are consistent with the suttas, and this is your takeaway?
you should perhaps get a better grip on English before attempting to continue, my guy
this is like the tenth time you've been caught lying itt
you already spoke of the bad karma from lying
esp about cultivation
including disparaging good teachings
wew lad
how much deeper are you going to dig the pit you've placed yourself in?

>>42314183
>but you don't have anything actually helpful to share
already had people itt tell me thank you, you akshually had helpful info to share
why are you so attached to being correct that it overrides the prohibition on lying?
telling one who claims to be a buddhist to follow his own advice isnt me saying I have 0 respect for buddhist practitioners
its only the main reason you were talking about it being a bad idea to have buddhist threads to begin with

>>42314183
Let's go further. No serious practitioner of the path would feel this much of an insane need to display himself as an advanced practitioner and claim attainments. If you had any of the attainments you've been pretending at, this conversation we are having wouldn't have happened.

No actual practitioner with any sort of attainment that you've been suggesting would talk the way that you do.

They also wouldn't feel a need to constantly have "the last word" at every opportunity. My god, it's pathetic. People complained about your character earlier and instead of bowing out, you samefagged and felt a need to make complaints about zealots, purists and intellectualists.

Again, more absurdity because I am not a strict purist. I am fine with integrating what is helpful from other paths. Why? Because unlike you, I am an actual Buddhist. I recognize the importance of skillful means (upaya). I also would LIKE to talk about cultivation, but every attempt to do so, you have drowned it out. I wrote a rather lengthy bit of advice on meditation, which you managed to cover up and have completely ignored hitherto.

You are completely unserious at every level and are painfully, obviously trolling. I wouldn't normally respond to you and would bow out of the thread by now, but I'm responding to make a demonstration of why we have been unable to talk about Buddhism on the board.

People like you. You come in, monopolize the conversation and make it about YOU and your IDENTITY. This time it's your identity as a "Advanced Spiritual Practitioner". Next time it could've just as easily been your political position, or any other thing you've chosen to identify with. Because your interest in spirituality, particularly Buddhist spirituality, doesn't come from a desire for liberation or even to help others. It comes from a narcissistic impulse.

If you weren't standing in your own way, you would've said something helpful.

>>42314229
>People complained about your character earlier
yeah, you and one other guy
soon as I said I did not call myself a buddhist, you two sperged out
at least the other guy left it at that instead of you typing the same post 4, 5, 6x in the same thread
you still wont address why you think its ok for you to lie and embellish posts that can be read above by anyone, showing yes indeed you are being deceitful, all out of your complete assmaddness
and you claim to be on the path to being ordained?
I would recommend you show this thread to your abbot so that he can reprimand you on your behavior
but of course you dont want that and wouldnt ever show your online behaviors to him because you KNOW it would be much frowned upon
you want to bitch about me responding to you continually doubling down and ignoring your own behavior!
clean ya mirror
>No actual practitioner with any sort of attainment that you've been suggesting would talk the way that you do.
this is like saying Diogenes was not a real philosopher
you just dont like straight talk and being directly told things

>>42272508
I think there is a lot of misunderstandings around Jhana in Buddhist circles. Particularly on 4chan.

The first Jhana is genuinely not that difficult to attain as a beginner meditator. It's a pretty casual experience that can be a attained by a pretty not serious meditator.

Beginners can kind of "slip" in and out of the first jhana accidentally.

It's learning how to consistently and reliably fabricate the first Jhana or Jhana in general that is difficult and requires genuine skill, understanding, and time.

>>42314272
>first jhana
I dislike that "applied thought" and "sustained thought" are included in most descriptions
thought is literally antithetical to meditative progress while in session
that is, the root energy that is required to build up in order for there to be a basis for jhanas is directly consumed by thought activity
one might as well be drinking alcohol to excess every day while trying to build up chi, its that level of counterproductive
things like joy & happiness are byproducts of the harmonization of the endocrine system that takes place
along with things like boosts in metabolism
rarely any mentions of how the light forms & what one must do to catch it, hold it, firm it...but that's just because not many have had the experience to write clearly about it
its a guarantee that the surprise of the light's arising the first time will be plenty sufficient to destroy the state rather immediately
how soon it returns is a function of your conditioning

>>42314259
>soon as I said I did not call myself a buddhist, you two sperged out
For someone who's called me a liar multiple times, you hardly ever tell the truth.
Before you said you were not a Buddhist, I was already telling you that what you were doing and saying was not in accordance with Buddhism...you know....the thing the thread was *supposed* to be about?
>I would recommend you show this thread to your abbot so that he can reprimand you on your behavior
my teacher knows what I'm up to.
>this is like saying Diogenes was not a real philosopher
you just dont like straight talk and being directly told things
I have name dropped several times the labels and warnings we have, specifically about people like you. We teach across sutta & mantra level that attainment claimers, like yourself, are parapravādin and moghapurisa.
You aren't giving "real talk". You also aren't a philosopher for that matter.

We teach that people actually in possession of the attainments, would not say anything like what you have said. We are very cut and dry about what someone with jhana will or won't do. You've done everything we teach they won't do, multiple times.

I actually will quote a sutta here. I'd recommend lurkers to check out the CTTBUSA Surangama Sutra commentary. It talks about exactly this kind of person, who behaves like this while claiming attainments.

not enough media for buddhism

>>42314300
ah, so you're going to continue to misrepresent the conversation that everyone can read above,
your abbot totally knows YOUR reportings of your behaviors online and doesnt read these threads to know that you're lying to him too
and its ok for teachers to talk about these things but I cant possibly qualify so therefore I'm a heretic
nah I really dont think your abbot knows the type of bullshit you're pulling online
I have a feeling it would go exactly like monkbro from a while back where the moment his superiors discovered what he was acting like online, he promptly disappeared
just stop posting already, you're only generating more bad karma for yourself
I could just as easily say no aspiring monk would act like you are acting in the same manner that you're saying nobody who's made the attainments I've made would speak as I am
your attachments are causing you to be duplicitous, racist
but you're a good aspiring monk
nope no contradictions there

>>42314345
Agreed, I wish there were more options for a would be buddhist

>>42314345
kek not enough metta either

How do you transcend desire?

>>42317040
easiest way:
stoic it
understand that your capacity will diminish with age
and the power of your nuts is literally your healing factor
and when you abuse those resources, you abuse your healing factor
you dont notice the drop in the resource levels when you're young
do you really wanna test this and verify for yourself that these resources are limited?
its a costly lesson

>>42310675
Awesome resource, thank you anon!

I tried meditating today but I can't keep avoiding feeling overwhelmed with ideas. How do you deal with those demons, anon?

>>42319071
random thought generation carries its own habit energy
the way to lessen its habit energy is to focus on the practice
normally if one is still grappling with this then the appropriate remedy is breath refinement, as random thoughts arise from slight inefficiencies in processing sense potentials
so bring the focus back to the breath and its timing
random thoughts will come, so the key here is as soon as the deviation is noticed, immediately return to the practice
dont further those thoughts at all, immediate redirect to the new habit
humans are habitual creatures, a habit cannot really be eliminated
all one can do is replace the habit with a new habit
so in essence the remedy is to reinforce the habit energy of paying attention
this will lessen the habit energy of random thoughts, with time and effort
ultimately it is possible to completely eliminate random thoughts from arising at all, but one shouldnt expect this at early or intermediate stages
I know this for sure because I attained it in multiple timeframes
but rest assured, conditioning is a thing so if cultivation isnt kept to such a tip top shape then eventually the energetic balancing mechanism of random thought generation will return

>>42319071
Try take shorter breaths, instead of long in- exhale, get into a pleasant rhythm. Focus on the area around the nose and the sensation on the the lip and nostrils. Rest the mind in the stillness between breaths. When your mind wander return focus on breath.

Practice diligently and frequently, always return focus to the awareness of the present moment.

>theravada buddhism thread. im a shia muslim but my second religion is theravada buddhism as a side research and personal development path

Theravada Buddhist tourist here, I am also quite interested in Islam and I do not see how this can be possible. One of the tenets of Islam is going to the mosque 5 times a day, which goes against the precept not to (blindly) follow rituals.

I've identified as a Theravada Buddhist for over 10 years and my honeymoon with the dhamma has been over for a long time.

>>42303538
Fake quote btw. The Buddha never ever spoke like this. Anyone who read the scriptures can tell right away. This literally goes against the Dhamma. Do not say this ever again

>>42319427
>Focus on the area around the nose and the sensation on the the lip and nostrils
rather counterproductive since these actions lead to more stimulation of the cranial nerves
potentials of which help form the basis for random thoughts to arise
stillness at the neurological level isnt going to come from sniffing at the air

I think the essence of Buddhism as well as Christianity and a number of other religions is that the native Indo-European religion is anti-life and these are attempts to reform it to be pro-life, but people generally forget the essence of this message and return it to being an anti-life ideology.

I don't think "white" = Indo-European either. I think "Indo-Europeans" and native Europeans were competing groups.

>>42319500
>"Parimukhaṃ satiṃ upaṭṭhapetvā" is a Pali phrase from the Suttas (e.g., MN 10, Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta) often translated as "establishing mindfulness to the fore" or "setting up mindfulness around the mouth". It is a key instruction for meditation, particularly Ānāpānasati (mindfulness of breathing), directing the meditator to establish awareness on the breath at the nose-tip or upper lip

>>42320006
>and these are attempts to reform it to be pro-life
The Buddha taught: this is stress, this is the origin of stress, this is the cessation of stress, this is the way to achieve the cessation of stress. Nothing more and nothing less.
>>42320061
>Source - ass

>>42320061
>often translated as
dont be so rigorous, you'll put yourself in a box
you are relying on the words of the translation to be congruent to the original term
I trust them to be loose translations, the words are never the moon they point at
examined from a neurological standpoint, its counterproductive to stimulate the nerves, esp the cranial nerves
the tip of the nose part is a trick to help train the focus to the niwan, also when examined from a neurological standpoint
I recall reading in some old translations that the adept should be able to sit with a feather dangled in front of his nose and not budge it while breathing
one wont reach that stage sniffing and huffing and puffing at the air, I can tell you that much
the buddha even said dont trust these words merely because I have said them, verify their meaning for yourselves and understand it truly, or some such bit of a quote
its funny how these modern tweaks of focus wind up staying consistent with the old words
so long as there's the perspective, and open mindedness to attain the perspective

>>42320563
Ya, and that's totally fair. I generally see buddhism as therapeutic. However, if one were to make a metaphysics out of it, it comes across as rather passive and opposed to certain joys of life. That also makes sense, considering therapy is best done in isolation. I just can't imagine a civilization adopting buddhism as a primary mode of operation. I don't think even the Japanese did this though. Various civilizations seem to have adopted it as a placeholder that is more philosophical than the alternatives. But if you want to be REALLY existential about it, I think it becomes a little anti-life, and I think that has more to do with the pre-Buddhist thought that in a way, the Buddha was reforming against. Buddha's whole thing is almost a therapeutic practice for living within a sort of anti-life environment, and the steppes were a very harsh place to live.

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>>42320563
>>42321174
To add: therapy pursued for its own sake is psychosis. Therapy pursued because you are broken is reasonable. I believe that life is suffering, but you can't get anything very worthwhile or good out of life if you don't suffer. Therapy pursued because you have idealized the lack of suffering is psychosis and wrong. The people who have done the worst with Buddhism or Buddhist-adjacent thought seems to be westerners who used it as a tools to fight against whatever was the more popular ideology at the time. You could look at the Nazis who went up the Hindu Kush to find the "original Aryans" or whatever, although really that stretches back to the East India Company and the British Empire that became reacquainted with such things in the 1800s and promptly used it to reassert their elitism. Pic rel is a good parody about this period.

>>42319488
>Fake quote btw. The Buddha never ever spoke like this
It was my commentary but here what buddha says about all.

From the Sabba Sutta:

“What is the All?
Eye and forms, ear and sounds… mind and mental objects.
This is called the All.”


After saying eye and forms, ear and sounds Buddha says this: "All is mind". We could shorten "Mind and mental objects to just mind". I dont see any problem with this. So I feel right to say: "Buddha said all is mind".

This sutta is very clear and clearly says all is mind.

Just be kind to each other. A small child can understand this.

>>42320810
I'm not the rigorous one and it's a fairly common recommendation to help focus.
Short in hale exhale, rest in the stillness for a few seconds, whatever feels natural, get into a natural rhythm and the breath will settle and refine itself.

>>42321369
>This sutta is very clear and clearly says all is mind.
Modify it to say 'all is consciousness' and the quote is literally true. Mind is a component of creatures, which emerges from the ubiquitous consciousness, or if you prefer "buddha-nature."
>>42321445
>A small child can understand this.
Fair, but you have to go back to infancy, before the "I=ego" forms, and delusion becomes the normal mode.

>>42321788
>Modify it to say 'all is consciousness'
Mind and consciousness used interchangeably among traditions.

To me "All is mind" and "All is consciousness" very similar.

>>42321445
What if the world or the people aren't kind to you?

>>42321512
>Short in hale exhale, rest in the stillness for a few seconds, whatever feels natural, get into a natural rhythm and the breath will settle and refine itself.
I suppose its good advice for those who dont really want to put in serious work
whatever feels natural and letting things just go as they may is not really a serious approach
but I get it, most cultivators dont want to spend any time doing the refinement work, they just want the benefits to come
most cultivators are not all that serious, or they would seek to find that stillness that exists during a breath pause with the breath ongoing, its the sustainable approach after all

>>42323042
i had the light pierce through the void like a crack and it hit/was in my heart. 30 seconds or so, buzz for an hour after where i was weeping.
is this the light you speak of or just some random phenomena

>>42323042
What's the serious approach?
How is one to breathe?
How is the breath refined?

>Teachers like Ajahn Lee (Thai Forest tradition) suggest that if the breath is uncomfortable, you should actively adjust it (e.g., changing from long to short) until it feels "comfortable and free-flowing" throughout the body.

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>>42321195
Agreed, how does buddhism get along with existentialism?

>>42323735
Good question is could it heal the way of Biological Determinism? Can it break the chains?

>>42264108
tldr for new fags
tier 0: nidanas, the middle path = the 8 fold path, query who am i, query what is my ego in relation to i am
tier 1: dzogchen
tier 2: mahayana
tier 3: vajrayana
tier 4: theravada (excluding nidanas and the middle path)
tier 5: lhp, spirits, exploring human capabilities

>>42319488
>Do not say this ever again
lmao that goes against the dhamma, if you only did and understood what the scriptures say

>>42314229
>would feel this much of an insane need to display himself as an advanced practitioner and claim attainments
this is a thought in this moment by your brains, completely irrelevant to the teachings, it is you taking a claim of what is happening

>>42293767
>This is monstrously evil karma
yes, terribly evil! hahaha, no but really there is no karma, or relations do, but you are not your relations, are you?
>Don't speak about jhana with inappropriate people!
where are the inappropriate people!
>Don't speak about it at the wrong time!
what is the right time
>Do not incur an evil kamma on your own person.
who is doing what
see to the phasing

may the merit i accumulate through my daily practice benefit the members of this board

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>>42323735
>posts big N
Look into accounts of Nietzsche's "madness" and see if it lines up with accounts of Kundalini awakening

The best N scholar, Kaufmann, had no clue what he was dealing with.

>>42324766
>Kundalini
I think it's something orgasm-adjacent involving nerve bundles going up the spine.

Fuckers NEVER want to talk about it if they know what it is (or claim to) though. It's one of the gayest esoteric subjects I've ever come across for that reason.

>>42324777
It's orgasm-adjacent only in the sense that orgasms are the easiest consensual sensation involving extreme pleasure. But it's more, much more than that, and nothing sexual.
You'll know when you know.
Nice trips tho.

>>42324766
Not that anon but that's an interesting perspective on uncle N's circumstances.

Kaufmann's translation of tWtP had him attempting to make that stuff accessible, which couldn't have been straight-forward.

>>42324792
>involving extreme pleasure
That we can recognise.
Other words that would be more fitting are bliss, blissfulness, plenitude or beatitude. Probably more I don't have.

>>42323076
if you've never been able to repeat it, then it sounds like something random
this is why I stress a rigorous rote approach, its what sets the conditions properly for it to return
when it returns, and often, then you can be sure

>>42323095
super busy day and I'm starving, I'll get ya later on this

>>42324792
What IS it? Is it pleasure? Does it give you psychedelic like feelings 24/7? Does it weaken you?

>>42325473
It's many things to many people. Lots of people feel a little tingle up and down their spines and are like "it's le kundalini", others get the full shebang and the "awakening" of le kundalini makes more sense. Many would sell their books around this ambiguity.
Anyway I was just messing with you. It's a kinda gay way to appreciate spiritual fullfilment, but at least it's nice that they give the physical sensation part into the picture.
Had this video in my feed for years and never watched but I guess you can if you're interested.
https://youtu.be/4CqxxIKiNII

>>42325786
This is pretty good. Makes a lot of sense. Another thing I don't quite understand is whether it's a thing that is constant or a thing that you experience briefly and then fall back out of. He says you can't take heaven by force, which I kind of agree with, but you could experience something like that for a short while.

For multiple reasons, it seems like we're talking about the serpent in the garden.

He says people cannot enter. He's talking about the conscious mind. The conscious mind can't just go into the subconscious at will. The consciousness can act in a certain way (good acts) and wait for the serpent to come to him.

It's vaguely similar to the story of the Prodigal Son.

I have a feeling there is something linguistic about the "sin" in the Garden of Eden. I'm conceptualizing the the "man" who can't enter heaven by force as the consciousness which can't force its way into the subconscious. The conscious mind is essentially something which encodes its experience in language and thus experiences life as language. It cannot use language to truly know the experience of the other side, the subconscious or the shadow. It chases the shadow, sort of like the sun chases the moon.

If we compare the sin in Eden to the Tower of Babel story, maybe you can see some more parallels.

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>>42325786
>>42326036
I've not watched a lot of Donahue. He seems to be passionate about things I'm a little less passionate about, but he seems like a good teacher.

I'll give you another guy that a fren on here years ago directed me to. Phil Blecker. His sessions are insanely long but worth the listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5AX7cb-wMA

I won't be able pinpoint the reference I want to make from that video or one of his other videos, but I'll paraphrase. What reminded me of this was a little claude response I just got while feeding it the last comment. (see pic rel)

Blecker talks about the fact that waking consciousness is more like somnabulism. It's sleepwalking, but conscious. For a really good meditative example, he says to try walking across the room and focus on what is causing your body to move. You aren't controlling every muscle in your body, directing them where to move. The extent of your conscious awareness is more like "I want to move across the room", and then it just happens. We sort of delude ourselves to think that this conscious part of ourselves is doing much more than that. We want to believe that consciousness is in control.

I say this a lot, but where this comes up in /pol/ style conversation is that ideology does not drive behavior. Something else drives action and belief, and then ideology rationalizes those things to develop a sense of agency. Now, actual agency is a very good thing (or in Blecker's terms, at least something that I like, which may not be for everyone), but the standard state of mankind is a delusion of agency.

I compare this to the mention that the path to kundalini is through breath rather than words. I think focusing on your breath could have functionally the same experience as focusing on your body in action.

I've also had a couple insanely psychedelic experiences while lifting weights before, and I am just now seeing how when I tried to duplicate it, I wasn't doing it correctly.

1/2

>>42326100
What happened is that while I was lifting, I had this strong visualization of like a red, horned devil type of character. Not in an evil or bad way, but it felt powerful. I think that was my subconscious telling me something about what I was doing or who I was being.

Conversely, I've since tried to purposefully visualize this image while lifting, and there is some benefit but it's not the same thing.

I think this stuff was happening to me without my understanding.

I've also had some Wim Hof type of experiences where I could produce heat in cold situations. Some of this happened around the same time I had those lifting experiences, but I also was able to sweat on command when I was a kid, which might be part of the same thing.

Last thought for now... Claude caught something interesting, which is that the Hebrew word isn't Sin. It's Chet, and the definition sounds a lot more like the inaccuracy of untruth, which in my experience dealing with metaphysics and such is one of the best ways to define 'evil' or at least what people think they mean by that word. I don't really like the good/evil dichotomy (unlike many of the loudest on 4chan), but I like truth/untruth.

Now, if we bring this back to the point about language, another thing that has become clear to me through studying metaphysics and thinking about the true language of popular ideology (not the one they profess, but what it actually is) is that an absolute moral authority is a key concept in all spirituality. Without getting into a proof of its existence (can we say an absolute, albeit nuanced, truth could exist?), we can start with its value in belief. Maybe the proof would improve the belief, but belief without the proof might even be stronger in a way too.

I think this absolute moral authority concept is the thing that the conscious comes back to which ultimately allows what we're calling the kundalini to rise.

>>42326175
Bro what discord do you hang out in?

>>42326175
I'm watching that Blecker video again. In the first 5 minutes, he talks about humanity collectively doing the same thing I'm describing on the individual level. If people think in ideals, which are fantasies that create delusion of progress, then we will common great atrocities to get there. Conversely, he who is worthy enters heaven, or has his kundalini awakened. The civilization which stops asserting ideals (remember: this means the language of thoughts) and instead pay attention, listen, observe, then we enter the heaven collectively. The beginning of ideals, which must also be the beginning of language because it's kind of hard to have an ideal if you can't take your mental image and map it to structured grammar that you can repeat on another image, is the beginning of the 'fall', since it is also the beginning of doing bad things for the sake of those ideals. And, of course, it's when we stop listening to things. Stop listening to our bodies, to other people, and the world.

Generally speaking, listening is more productive than talking when it comes to learning. That isn't true 100% of the time, and we wouldn't truly learn (at least at a verbal level, which is fair enough, the goal of the conscious mind) if we didn't speak too. Through action and imperfection, the human consciousness can make as incredible of a world on earth as the conscious mind can perceive. However, none of the progress ever improves human spirituality. That's why ascending is more like coming home. Descending is the slow fall during childhood when you become broken by the world. We call this "maturity", by the way. That is a funny ideal, if you realize broken adults create ideals that invert the value of their state of mind vs that of a child's. Not to say we should worship the lack of knowledge of a child, but imagine the spirit of a child in the mind of an elder. That's where you get real wisdom, right? This also doesn't make you weak, for anyone that was worried.

>>42326216
If you want to do this the real way, you would create a burner matrix account, post your username on here. I'll hit you up, and we can go to our real accounts.

If you have protonmail, you could just create a burner alias for the same purpose, and then also transition to element.

I suppose signal would serve the same purpose as element. You would want to leverage and email alias for that.

>>42326216
I say you because the one who asks provides the courtesy.

>>42326379
I don't know what any of that means.

Can I post my discord username and you DM me?

The last time I invested any decent amount of time on the internet was Winmx approx 20 years ago.

I was apart of a discord server briefly about 5 years ago & I'm not familiar with any other form of P2P platforms

>>42326430
hah, alright go for it.