What does it mean to be enlightened and why should one aspire to escape the cycle of reincarnation?Aren't those just another form attachment? The buddhist monk dies in the same way any animal or insect would, what good does the fixation on one's nature accomplish when you can just directly live it out.
>>42308840enlightenment means knowing and following the dhamma perfectly. it is the recognition that even if you are the highest possible being in the best possible heavenly realm, you are still subject to suffering in a different but similar way that a being in hell is. escaping the cycle of reincarnation leads you away from this suffering. transcendence. the buddhist monk aspires to free himself from reincarnation through his buddhist practice.the whole framework is built around nirvana. nirvana is the only thing that the buddha says has to be taken on faith alone. everything else you can see for yourself. so it's possible that there is no escape at all unless the buddha is to be believed. nirvana is neither existence, nor non-existence, nor both, nor neither. "existence" does not pertain to nirvana. it cannot be conceptualized or pondered in any meaningful way, so there's no point doing it.the abrahamic faiths have a sort of similar concept of transcendence, where yahweh/allah transcends everything. but he still exists, so he would not qualify as being free from suffering in that sense. since he is also eternal, that would make him an impossibility, according to buddhism, since all is subject to change and deterioration. they would simply say that he is so long-lived that it appears as if he has always been here and always will be here. his suffering would be considered too subtle.aspiring to escape samsara is basically attachment, yes. but buddhists get pretty uppity when you bring this up. they have a ton of words for similar concepts but slightly different definitions which cannot be appropriately translated into english, so it's best to use the original buddhist terms. the desire to escape samsara has a more wholesome quality, so that's why it's considered ok.
Its an Asian propaganda religion i doubt Buddhists are truly calm their doctrine has flaws
>>42308840>Thou shant desire attachments to the material. >Thou shall instead desire union with the sourceI don't get it.
My knowledge of Buddhism is basic but it’s the main religion I can directly relate to on several aspects, especially the concepts of non-self and nondualism: the moment you accept that we do not have personal egos or so called souls because we live under the illusion of separation from one another, then clinging on to any attachment is a form of suffering. Reincarnation is a process which binds our current form of existence into an endless cycle of suffering, and if life is like a video game tutorial stuck on repeat then buddhists are trying to skip the tutorial to play the actual game. I agree with you that the desire to escape from the cycle of reincarnation is a form of attachment itself. The buddhists came up with a convenient explanation to camouflage their desire to attain nirvana: it’s based on a pure intention rather than a selfish craving therefore it’s okay. This is where I doubt things, while their philosophy is more logical than most religions, the buddhist logic is also the source of confusion and contradictions.So in order to clarify their positions they typically resort to giving new explanations that make you more confused the further you decipher their teachings. That’s why multiple schools of thoughts were formed. In my opinion, all spiritual practices that defy nature to achieve so called enlightenment are not efficient because they are fixated on a certain perspective of existence which is actually uncertain. We do not have to reject physical reality nor should we grow obsessed towards whatever existence there is after death. The only certainty I have is that reality at its core cannot be described through words, the moment we do then our perspective becomes narrow and we fall into the trap of trying to find sense or meaning in our existence due to our narrow perspective.
>>42309131>they typically resort to giving new explanations that make you more confused the further you decipher their teachingsthis hasn't been my experience with buddhism. in my experience, the explanations are usually surprisingly logical and reasonable. considering most other religions rely entirely on obviously made-up mythology. some of it seems arbitrary, but not confusing. but maybe it's a matter of the specific teachings we engage with.
>>42309016>where yahweh/allah transcends everything. but he still existswrong. the abrahamic god trascends existance and non existance. it transcends temporality as well. their mystics talk about this all the time>>42309016>the desire to escape samsara has a more wholesome quality, so that's why it's considered ok.wrong again. so close yet so far away.the correct way is to also reject the desire to 'escape samsara'.you have super normoid takes. keep them to yourself next time.
>>42309131>Reincarnation is a process which binds our current form of existence into an endless cycle of suffering,didn't you just say personal egos are illusory? there's no such thing as reincarnation, it's all make believe. >>>you<<< only get to live once>>42309145>considering most other religions rely entirely on obviously made-up mythology.so does buddhism
>>42308840Do you udnerstand that people are different and there is not one religion that can convince all the people of the same truth? THis is the point of buddhism. The point is offering meaning to a person who can't find meaning in things like the bible, so they have an alternative to put their faiths in, which is things like Buddhism.
>>42309181Atheistic religions will never work the Japanese and Chinese appear happy and perfect but they are rotten inside because of the individualism promoted by Buddhism and Buddhism was founded by Asian kings in feudal Asia to serve emperors and royal families each country founded its own version of Buddhism
>>42309146sorry>>42309156buddhism is supplemented by mythology because the people who invented it were superstitious, but the actual beliefs about dependent origination, jhanas, samyojanas, khandhas, the dhamma, four noble truths etc can be explained without invoking any mythology. the mythology is mostly, if not entirely, irrelevant to your path towards attaining enlightenment. buddhists are not dogmatic about these things, because they do not have to be.
I still remember how the Japanese killed and persecuted Catholics i will never forgive them Jesus is King
>>42309289but christians love being martyred. its their greatest honor
>>42309145The OP mentioned it and that’s something which made me reconsider my attraction towards Buddhism: using the ego to get rid of the ego. That sounds absurd, so they claim the selfish desire to achieve nirvana stems from greater compassion which is not your typical selfish craving. So now there are 2 categories of craving: those that are deemed positive and necessary towards achieving enlightenment and those that are negative and mundane. Here’s the thing, the problem is nature which rigged the game against us. All thoughts we have stem from a sense of self, so whether they’re good or selfish desires to escape from reincarnation isn’t what matters. If we are not separate from each other and the universe in the first place, then isn’t the feeling that we exist to suffer an illusion too?
>>42309289What does this have to do with Buddhism though?Catholics on Kyushu were trying to stage a rebellion, were backed by Portugal, and btw were also led by a charismatic leader claiming to be a reincarnation of Jesus. The purge was ordered by the Shogun for political reasons, not religious ones. Like, at the same time protestants were allowed to stay cos the Dutch were careful not to go against the country's authorities.Also, Japan historically had probably the most extant version of Buddhism - they got it from China where it had already merged with a lot of other beliefs and systems, via several waves, and then changed it even more, resulting in multiple sects with at times wildly different takes on things (e.g. between Shingon that stems from Chinese version of Vajrayana and Jodo Shinshu that is a form of fundamentalist Amidaism - there is very little in common, think Catholicism vs Baptism). But like I said, this doesn't even matter in the topic of Edo era catholic purges.
>>42309560>extantmeant distant, sorry*
>>42309016enlightenment has nothing to do with intellectualisms
>>42309289King of the jews
Buddhists meditating are just people "AFK" from life.
>>42309201Your mistake is thinking that there is a religion that works. No religion works. All religions are BS and meant to deceive you and trap you and then suck your energy dry. While most people keep on fighting about what religion is the correct one a small minority just live their lives cerating their own meaning and they finally reach that place where they feel connected to the divine without professing a religion. This is the universal truth that no religion offers. The universal truth is not found in x religion, it is found by just living and understand the nature of this reality. When someone starts to impose their point of view as the ultimate religion this is when we start to have a bad time. If you must impose your religion unto people then it is not a true religion. The natives were in more touch with nature than the europeans ever were. While the natives respected nature the europeans destroyed nature and killed the animals and laid waste to the new world. My point is that organied religion is BS. You may feel genuine feelings in those religions, but they are triggered by lies and deception. WHich means that people are being played and manipulated.
>>42309156Yeah reincarnation is just like heaven and hell, you either believe or you don’t. Personally, I find that those concepts are far too simple and convenient to be the ultimate truth. If they are genuine then they must be the surface of an iceberg. I have a more frightening theory, our consciousness is more capable than we can possibly imagine. However our bodies were designed to filter the information we perceive in this physical world so that we aren’t overwhelmed.The only time when our filter of perception is slightly turned off is when we experience dreams. Have you ever wondered why dreams are crazy? Because we live in a crazy world which our bodies desperately try to rationalize so we don’t go crazy. I believe that it wouldn’t be crazy to believe that our consciousness is capable of manifesting our own beliefs into existence after death. So it’s entirely possible that people who believe in certain religions or none will be led towards a realm which fits their beliefs. We always try so hard to assume that there’s only one truth but what if the are infinite truths in quantum superposition with mortal belief systems merely being at the tip of the iceberg. The same way we age and experience new things, our consciousness could also go through the same process in another realm but actually I have no freaking clue. It’s just frustrating to imagine because we always rely on our limited logic. To give a proper description, one would need to achieve nirvana first and normalize their perception of crazy shit like there is no time, no space, no gravity, no anything but if certain conditions are met then everything is in place and these conditions are what we lack to truly understand the mystery behind existence and experience.
>>42309782It's pretty good. You're asking a lot of good questions but you're still confusing yourself overlapping certain information and science or spiritual buzzwords. Very wise to admit you don't know. Don't overcomplicate, you're getting there. If you continue, persevere and be true to your Self, you'll know.One important key is to blend mental exhaustion and physical exhaustion, push your body and mind to its limit and go further.
>>42309998Wait so you know what happens after death just by pushing your mind and body to its limit? Don’t just vanish without elaborating, I’m curious about your theory. I admitted I have no clue because our bodies are preventing us to see what’s beyond, I don’t believe that any insight acquired through deep meditation, NDEs, DMT or whatever is absolute because we cannot escape the limitations imposed by our human perception, that’s why everybody has a different interpretation of their experience. The greatest mystery is whether we lose our individuality or retain it in the afterlife or rather, are we living life and the afterlife at the same time but our bodies just can’t let us experience both. I believe there are endless possibilities including those that defy logic or simplicity. It’s like many paths converging into one, you can observe and tread a single path at the end of the road or observe many paths at the beginning without ever knowing they intertwine, that’s how complexity becomes simplicity and vice versa, I believe the fabric of reality functions in a way that is confusing and contradictory on purpose to maximize versatility because it’s basically gay and based on conditions that are shapeless, formless… like water my friend, enough bs said xD
>>42309289>persecuted JesuitsFtfy
>>42309016>. nirvana is neither existence, nor non-existence, nor both, nor neither. "existence" does not pertain to nirvana. it cannot be conceptualized or pondered in any meaningful way, so there's no point doing it.It's not a mystical realm per se. Conceptualizing means you (the ego) is cling to something and the mind isn't liberated as long as it attached to ideas. Nirvana, blowing out the fire fueled by desire, craving and attachment, is a state of mind. Like light isn't visible in space, it's only seen when it lands on and reflect off of something. The mind that doesn't land on something is free.
>>42311053>It's not a mystical realm per sewhat if I told you it was, one from where that state of mind is able to arise. something something pleroma or something like that.>like light isn't visible in spaceto you.the light that doesn't land on something is still there.you can even go further and say the light that reflects off of something is free as long as it's not observed.
Protip: combine Buddhism's methodology with Jainism's ontology and you basically get applied Gnosticism on steroids, without the abrahamic baggage. For something even more advanced within the related dharmic context look into Kabir and Sant Mat.
>>42311407>something something pleroma>>42311461>Gnosticism on steroidsgnosticism schizobabble = abrahamic fairy talesinto the trash it goes
>>42311576dharmakāya/sunyatait's just easier for people to say pleroma in terms of common knowledge. could have said realm of forms
>>42309687The problem is that you see religion as entertainment like a fairy tale or a movie its not like that its a belief system that people swear on their lives to believe in its something much deeper but you wouldnt understand you have been manipulated by Hollywood i saw Jesus Christ i was an atheist before but now im not i converted to Christianity
>>42308840>Aren't those just another form attachment?The last thing Buddha lost his attachment to before he became enlightened was his desire to become enlightened. This has been known for like, literal centuries.
>>42309289>I will never forgive them>Jesus, the main guy, literally forgives his killersYou're either retarded or larping
>>42310863There is nothing I can tell you that would really help. You're already on a good path towards what you seek and it is my belief that there is no secret sauce. On the contrary I think that giving more than keys or a direction towards them will lead you too much astray.Everyone is different, identify, "deconstruct", and isolate your needs and envies so you can better adress them. Like music, to truly enjoy a piece you can do that for every instruments. It gives a new dimension to the whole piece.If all these things you mention don't work for you maybe find something else. I have to agree that drugs do not help too much. They fog vision, cloud the mind and short-circuits your brain. It will open certain doors that seem already opened for you at the cost of a huge tax on your body and mind.Go towards something new like contemplation or other practices you can even create that would be better for your growth, and if it doesn't work go to something new again. But always be involved, don't half-ass. Every experience is valuable and it's a baggage for life. Mix it with physical activity like running to understand the second wind, some forms of yoga, or any other activity that fits you better.Be aware that many have lost their minds on the road, at the end of the road or on the highway because, as you point it out, it's very paradoxical since it's metaphysically sensible, yet physically ineffable.
The goal would be the same as in any other religion: to work your way through the initiation into the inner doctrine. For buddhism, it seems to be a form of void worship. It's much more hardcore than they put on, as is always the case.
>>42308840To make you a slave.Remember when you would just steal someones ice cream cone because you were bored when you were 8 at the swimming pool? That's just full enlightenment. Taking something because you want it. Full unadulterated ego is enlightenment.
Apparently pleasure from right view, mindfulness, and sense restraint feels nicer than sense pleasure, aversion, and indulgence. And it leads to the permanent cessation of suffering. Pretty believable. In the other hand, goon...
>>42313511A guy I know told a story from when he was a wee boy around that age in Glasgow back in the day. Some older neighbor kid smacked him in the head and took his juice box. He went up crying to his cousins, the big kids on the block. They gave him a hammer and told him to go smash the kid. That was his first lesson in violence. Egotism, greed and separation from others are the poison that breeds evil and violence in the world. A violent life often have you end up a criminal, locked in prison, drug addiction, alcoholic, bad health or early death.
>uk hours>self righteous cuntyup
>>42313602>self-righteous cunt>ice cream thiefReally nigga?
>really nigga<self righteous cunt>glasgowyup
>>42308840An elaborate justification of their cowardice before the cruelty and blood and muck of life. Same as all other religions and philosophies of peace.
>>42316478Allah snackbarTolerance is not peace. Buddhist monks were very often battle monks used in wars as mercenaries.
>>42308840the point is to be a monk and get all the goyem to pay for your lifestyle of being lazy. duude im chillin to reach nirvana, just pay for my food.
