I am studying the Bible and I deeply question the mainstream Christian narrative (Pic related). It does not really appear to be fully supported by the Bible and seems mostly wishful thinking.IMHO they are constructing their own theology where making heaven is easy. Just repent and believe on Jesus and you will be saved. Sure maybe parts of the Bible do imply that. But IMHO revelation does not imply or say this at all. I think revelation as well as other parts show that most people will go to hell. And the gap between how high most Christians perceive the bar to be cleared to make heaven and the one the Bible actually mentions in many parts is massive.Most Christians seem like that high-school kid high on cannabis saying chill bro we are fine.But what the Bible describes in many parts is absolutely brutal. I was up all night thinking about it. Revelation 20:12-15[12]And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is that of life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works.[13]And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged each according to their works:[14]and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.[15]And if any one was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.Revelation 21:8[8]But to the fearful and unbelieving, and sinners, and those who make themselves abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
Do not turn this thread into an atheism discussion. It doesn't matter. I want to discuss what the text says, not what you do or do not believe. I am going to work now, please be patient for my replies. Thank you and have a nice day all.
https://youtu.be/JMWPSN6JBichttps://youtu.be/diwTGq3uOaohttps://youtu.be/tlGM0QMtcRY
the mainstream christian narrative does not have your best interests at heart
>>42312821No you have to love people, not just GOD. That means you gotta forgive people. Ya gotta try and help when you can. That's the part no one wants to do but they ain't going to no paradise with a heavy, hateful, hard heart. Don't matter how many JEEEEZUS JEEEEZUS JEEEEEEZUS they cry out how many hail Marys they say, which day they take off from work, how many animals they slaughter, how many times they walk around a giant black cube, how often they go to church or read their scriptures or or any of the other nonsense. You can do AAAAALLLLLL these things, but if you don't have love in your heart, you're nothing Ya gotta become like a child and care for one another. Then you'll be small enough to slip through the gates' bars and past the big mean guard
>>42312821So, OP, have you cut off your balls to avoid naughty thoughts (Matthew 19:12) or given all your shit to the homeless (Luke 18:22) yet?
>>42312821By clinging to the mainstream scripture, you are also obliged to cling to the mainstream narrative.Its one thing to be an illiterate protestant who disregards centuries of handed down Apostolic traditions because of his own ego, it another thing to reject the authority of the church because of the ingrained theological errors of the bible.The faith alone doctrine was created by people like Paul, who kickstarted the Catholic church.Of course the mainstream narrative will make the path of salvation appear easy, when half of your scripture is attributed to the random letters of Paul who was the driving proponent of this theology.As i stated already, follow the official church dogma or give up on the larp and see the bible for what it is - an incomplete and corrupt book which offers contradicting points of view.
>>42312866sheol/hades/hel is originally (in very ancient times) the calm tombstone where all dead go regardless of morality. later this view evolves in some ways. the indo-aryans introduce someaspect of moral judges in the afterlife. also, the greeks invent tartarus as a prison for the titans. the prison concept gets applied to humans and merged with the moral aspect around the 6th-5th century BCE. now, humans go to the prison, too. and the good get rewarded with something akin to paradise, although this reward becomes more utopian as the ideas evolve.around the 4th century BCE, we have Sheol divided into two parts: Abraham's bosom, which is a good afterlife for the righteous, and the "Outer Darkness" which is now a place of active torture. But both are still part of Sheol (the underworld where dead souls go). They are separated by a chasm which cannot be crossed. The gates to heaven are closed, because heaven is strictly the realm of God. But, this state is not forever. They are waiting for the messiah to come.After the Messiah comes, all souls will get a new physical body (both good and bad). the bad will then be cast into the hellfires of Gehenna forever, a worse torture than the Outer Darkness, and a more permanent one. The righteous souls will inherit HaOlam haBa, the world to come. heaven still remains strictly the dwelling place of God. going to heaven is never the goal.Christianity says that Jesus is the messiah. when he went to hell to harrow the souls, it doesnt mean he fought demons in Gehenna. now one was in Gehenna yet, only the Outer Darkness waiting room. Either way, he only went to abraham's bosom to open the gates to heaven. Now humans could go to heaven which was a new concept. However heaven is STILL not the final ending. After the second coming of jesus, all bodies are physically restored again and the evil cast into gehenna forever, while the righteous inherit the new heaven and new earth.
>>42312821Have you tried talking to Allah instead
Chill bro we are fine
>>42312941>By clinging to the mainstream scripture, you are also obliged to cling to the mainstream narrative.>Its one thing to be an illiterate protestant who disregards centuries of handed down Apostolic traditions because of his own ego, it another thing to reject the authority of the church because of the ingrained theological errors of the bible.>The faith alone doctrine was created by people like Paul, who kickstarted the Catholic church.>Of course the mainstream narrative will make the path of salvation appear easy, when half of your scripture is attributed to the random letters of Paul who was the driving proponent of this theology.>As i stated already, follow the official church dogma or give up on the larp and see the bible for what it is - an incomplete and corrupt book which offers contradicting points of view.Trooned it again award.
>>42312821People don't understand that a lot of what happens in heaven is legal. God is absolute-good and he can't deny himself.Because he is maximally good and doesn't want anyone to perish, he will use loopholes for his own benefit, he will save as many people as he can, even if they were terrible Christians so long as they consented and believed on him. You are contractually bought with Jesus' blood and he is already going to change everyone's body and nature during the resurrection, he isn't going to buy you and then throw you away, that's not good. The worst Christians will not get any rewards in heaven but they will be spared eternal damnation. They will also probably be denied reigning with Christ during 1000yr millennium kingdom and will have to chill in heaven. Also remember that because God is absolute-good and absolute-just, everyone who ends up in hell will have deserved it.
>>42312821I had a divine revelation one night while praying and it really boils down to a very simple concept.Only those who love will be with the Lord. That's it. The reason we are here, the reason why we are is to love. If you cannot do that, you will not be permitted. The Lord Jesus Christ modeled for us exactly what that looks like. His most important act was a pure act of love, he sacrificed himself to mankind through a brutal trail and tribulation that he could have easily avoided. He showed us that even when the world is beating you down, even when everyone hates you, scorns you, brutalizes you, that you must love. Most people cannot fathom that, most people cannot stand that, that is why what you're saying is kind of true. All the commandments point to love. Love is very well defined in The Bible, it can't be faked, it can't be bargained with and it can't be bought. The Lord can see all and knows your intentions through all, if your heart is turned to stone then he will know it and you are lost. It's why hardening of the heart is seen as one of the worst things that you can let happen to you and it's also why he says to protect your heart. Do not let your love run dry, do not forget to love, do not allow yourself to turn to stone. Love fiercely and try to turn other's hearts to love and always turn to the Lord when you feel your heart is hardening. Take solace that you are lucky enough to have a Lord of love be master of this universe. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.Loving like the Lord commands is the hardest and most rewarding choice you can make in your life. I fail everyday but I keep trying to meet his expectations. Good luck to you all.
>>42312880I noticed.
So far nobody addressed the question
>>42314968It isn't especially easy. See Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus says not everyone who calls him "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of his Father. Then he describes people protesting on judgment day, saying things like "Didn't we prophesy in your name? Cast out demons in your name? Do many mighty works in your name?" And his response is: "I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." You need to get to the point where you literally know Him and He knows you, personally. That's your goal, you meet Him personally in a dream or vision. This is not a simple task and may take years of prayer. But it isn't impossible and praying win a group for each other helps a lot. Most Churches are not praying for the right things. You need to pray specifically for Him to know you, and don't give up after just a few years of this.
>>42316204>praying win a groupEdit: praying with a group
>>42312821Get saved and you won't have to face that judgement. That's the whole point of the NT.
>>42312902>>42312821 (OP)>So, OP, have you cut off your balls to avoid naughty thoughts (Matthew 19:12)“For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:12)The reason Jesus specifically says "He that is able to receive it" is because only one "eunuch" in this passage is to be taken literally, thus spiritual discerment must be excercised to get the fact that He's addressing low libido and abstinence with the other two.>or given all your shit to the homeless (Luke 18:22) yet?That was a specific commandment given to this specific man still under the Mosaic law for the purpose of preparing him for the kingdom (later postponed), because Jesus knew how attached he was to his earthly possessions, but that's not for anybody today (unless God tells you to some way), let alone for salvation: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:9-10)Also consider the fact Joseph of Arimathaea was still loaded even after Jesus' death when he gave his fancy tomb away for His burial.“All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar’s household.” (Philippians 4:22)No record of this noble family selling anything, yet they were saved.
God does things differently in different time periods. In this age we are saved by grace through faithJesus Christ is God in the flesh. He died on the cross as a sinless sacrifice for all the sins of the whole world to save you from eternal hell, the punishment for your sins. He was buried, then rose again from the dead. One day you will stand before Him, and He will judge you.Rom. 3:23-25: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”1 John 5:7: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”Salvation is by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9, given by God, Romans 10:8 & 17) only in the one, final, effectual sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ (Heb. 10:8-12) dying in your place (1 Cor. 15:3-4) as a substitutionary offering for sin (Rom. 5:1-10). His blood atonement made for you is finished, so if you have received the Lord Jesus by faith (John 1:12) in your heart, you're forgiven of all your sins and are saved, once for all; finally and forever! (Rom. 8:38-39, Romans 4:5)The gift of salvation can't be earned, it's a gift: Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Rom. 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Confess The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in prayer, that you trust in Him, not your own works. He atoned for your sins on the cross.www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntcProof that the Bible is the word of God:https://truthischrist.com/seven/fcbaptist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Bible-proof.pdf
>>42316320Cope. You're only saying that because you love your testicles more than Jesus.
>>42316218Many people who have been "saved" will burn in hell. The gate is narrow
>>42316204Most Christians are going to hell. I am sure if it. They are too comfortable with their sins
>>42316942>CopeConcession accepted.
>>42317211Christians can backslide for sure, but that will never be a comfortable position to be in because the Holy Spirit won't allow it. You're talking about false converts, which's a different story.
>>42317231Well, I mean the vast majority of Christians seem never to lose any sleep over their salvation. They seem so self pleased, Bible thumping and reassuring themselves that Jesus died for their sins so it's in the bag
>>42317231I am literally losing entire nights sleep wondering about all of this stuff and reading The Revelation through "worst case interpretation just to be on the safe side of caution" and it's unsettling
>>42312821it's not going to be ok. I won't lie.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPHyR92MQic&ra=m
>>42312896The ability of most people to forgive when it's explicitly the right thing to do is nearly zero. People want to be smooth talked and led like sheep to feeling good about engaging in forgiveness but without that they will never do it.>>42312821Most Christians act as though believing that Jesus probably is real and praying once in awhile is enough to ensure a good afterlife and convince themselves they're a good Christian. That's just patently insane to me and why I take almost no Christian seriously. The few I respect are true believers that toil from the many inconveniences of their beliefs.
>>42317246It's in the bag if you truly are saved, but just because a saved person can't go to hell does not mean sin has no consequences. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to crack that bible open without landing on a verse that's not condemning sin or commanding a Christian to live holy, because even though the final destination of our souls was settled at the cross, our life on earth (down to correction for bad behavior and even premature physical death) and our recompense in the world to come, depend entirely on our service towards God; we are called to labour for crowns , and avoiding sin gets you at least one.
>>42317294Revelation says sinners are going to hell though. Which means 99.999999% of Christians.
>>42317302If a Christian can go to hell, the cross was in vain.
Be kind to each other. That is all. I have researched all knowledge, it is irrelevant. Simply be kind.
>>42317302>>42317314Only 144,000 will make it into heaven
>>42317353“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” (Titus 3:5-7)
>>42317358144000 jews who will have the testimony of Christ, and that's not related biblical salvation like we have it today, that's specifically a tribulation rapture:“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.” (Revelation of John 7:4-8)
I took the book of revelation as:Material disasters will continue to plague mankind inducing maximum suffering. In the end, the only escape is turning to Christ. I don't see it as prophetic of a specific temporal apocalypse, but rather explaining that material attachment is ultimately useless because all material prosperity is fleeting. May the original tribes that God revealed himself to finally accept his Word, and may the gentiles also accept the Word. Something like that.So yeah the mainstream narrative is absolutely false, the bar IS higher than most admit, even if apocalypse is allegorical.
>>42317211You can pray for them and it helps this problem
>>42317216Okay, ballboy.
>>42316942Average atheist response
Be kind to yourself and others. That is all. I have studied all faith systems and thats what they all share. For most of history most of the planet is not Christian, I do not believe they will be tortured merely because they never read the Bible. >oops someone was born in india or china in 400 ad sorry they gon be tortured bc they never heard of christianityNow that *does not make much sense does it*? Probably because no one gets tortured after they die.
>>42312821>mainstream Christian narrativejust going on numbers alone, this is not the "mainstream" narrative. This is just the american evangelical narrative which is still a minority of christians today and also fairly new in its theology. Your intuition is correct.
>>42318682The evangelicals say the Great White Throne of Judgment is stolen from a secret Masonic teaching, and extrapolate that it's the judgment of Damnation. When you perform the Great Work you go to the Great White Throne of Judgment, Christians are just taking the Masonic claim and adding their opinion that it's damnationI admit it's up in the air
>>42317314If any christian has chosen the devil since, its still the devil they will go tostill need to play by the rules to sub to heavenand in general relax the only ones going to the beast are the ones that worked directly with it without being deceived into it
>Just repent and believe on Jesus and you will be savedit can be that easy, but forgiveness requires change. you cannot be saved if you simply go back to doing wicked things.>most people will go to hellthat's because we live in satan's little season and those who go to hell are the ones who fell for satan's deception. christ's 1000 year kingdom will be a better place without them.many will die when the war between gog and magog starts, some of them will not deserve their deaths but a lot will.
>>42312821every "denomination" from america is just making shit up as they go along. no bible study in america has a slight clue of what was going on in the ancient world, or how ancient people talk. they earnestly think that god wanted walmart churches with fog machines
>>42318422Spoken like a true testicle-lover.
Is there like a ball park in how many people would get Raptured? Hundreds of millions? Single digit millions? Hundreds of thousands, etc?It's so hard to determine what other Christians might actually be Christians and whatnot. A lot of "Christians" are pretty mean people.
yeah no shit? you have to be 18 to post here OP.so what is your question OP? you wrote so much text but what was your point? what do you want? do you want Truth or do you just want to yapp and conquer and divide, the thread/board?i can give you Truth but you wont like it and i either will get b&, hated on or completely shadowb&/disregarded again.and since you didnt ask any questions (they end with the sign "?") i cant even tell in what direction you need me to nudge you.>>42318678>Be kind to yourself and others.essentially the golden rule of /our/ cosmos, which is good butthis only applies to Gaian native flora and fauna and homo sapiens. excluded are neo-outer-space squatters (neanderthals) that crashlanded here and say that they are jews but arent and are highjacking this plane_t./we/ really should kick those neanderthals out from our planet/temple, just as Christ kicked them out.else their terraforming (massive steel and concrete wastelands, so called cities) will be irreversible and native lifeforms will cease to exist
>>42314430I can't love being that allows so much suffering of innocents.It feels like betraying concience.
>>42314430>love will be>>42320908 (me)>>42321004yes. thats why He/Christ said that they cant comprehend/love. their (the enemy neanderkikes) hearts are made out of stone. while native creatures hearts are made out of love. and they refuse to change themselves. instead they want to change /us/
>>42317292>Most Christians act as though believing that Jesus probably is real and praying once in awhile is enough to ensure a good afterlife and convince themselves they're a good Christian. That's just patently insane to meOp here. Agreed fully
>>42319332>it can be that easy, but forgiveness requires change. you cannot be saved if you simply go back to doing wicked things.Have you thought about how dumb this premise is? That means the cheat code would be to just "be saved" at the end of your life, after a lifetime of enjoying the pleasures of sin. Just repent and do no more of it for a short time and boom, heaven made.
>>42312821This is why Puritans believed it was incredibly difficult to not go to hell and believed any kind of sin at all meant you were damned.
>>42312821you need to get aquainted with universalists rebuttal of the false view of "hell".God is love. that is the key by which all must be judged. there is no hollywood-esque hell.the judgement will be conscience driven. "eternity" is not endless, its an eon, an age. jonas was an eon in the whale. 3 days. its timeless, because age is timeless, it is dynamic, not fixes. can be 1h, 3 days, 5s.God will be in ALL. God can not fail. Love, the ordering principle, will order the kinks/imperfections out of all, God will perfect all, and be in all, be the all.. (great secret: this already is and this is the means of judgement: if you did not slave away to serve and help other humans, you have not served God. because humanity is God, in humans is God, the body is the temple of God, your innermost sense of "I" is it and it is one in all. your conscience will torture you for an eon when the awakening to that reality happens - that you and the Father are nor two, but one, that whoever has seen you, has seen God.. but this applies likewise to all, so serving others, loving others, is loving God, not indirectly, but directly. this is the mystery of godliness, that God did not perceive it as robbery to lessen himself and become YOU; God can not lose itself!)
