Can't the firmament be absolutely real without necessitating that the earth is flat?Why do people push the flat earth thing?Why don't I see any alternate earth theories that include a firmament but also have a curved earth?That to me seems very plausible. That we're able to reach about ISS level height before hitting the firmament, and all the Elon Musk spacex launches and Operation Fishbowl are about never being able to puncture that firmament height.
the firmament is real but it covers all of space-time. that’s why space is flat. should be flat universe theory
>>42370489This
>>42370489why cant it be a ball within a ball?Also does the Bible describe the world as flat or something like that?
>>42370479>Why don't I see any alternate earth theories that include a firmament but also have a curved earthBecause a curved earth isn't biblical.That said, the earth isn't necessarily flat, either.The bible talks about the four corners of the earth in multiple places, which would allow for it to be a tetrahedron.
how about you just abandoned your stupid bullshit ancient religion and stop trying to make it work with our modern scientific understanding of the world. It doesn’t work, it never will, stop being a moron. it’s endlessly fascinating how stupid people on this board are. You’re suspicious of everything mainstream except for the mainstream religions you grew up with. Abandon your childish beliefs already, it’s getting ridiculous
>>42370479It's a container metaphor. If you need a real one it's the Schumann resonance. That's the container for psychic energy and earths heartbeat. Applies to the eyeball, ego, body, a pizza if you think about it.
>>42370583I make it work so you're wrong. Like Genesis and revelation are symbolic myth encodings of the origin from africa around blombos which is where Eden was and the Toba super eruption that made us leave after the expanse of land on south Africa was flooded after a glacial melt cycle. All myth encodes this in some form or another. Science has simply been tracing what myth describes the experience of to label it with technical language. There is a bridge and it's a very bright one so buckle into your self so you don't burn up.
>>42370825>I make it workno, you make shit up and desperately make connections where none exist because you’re a schizophrenic dumbass. they literally want you to be Christian, it’s what they push on us. You and your lot are the dumbest motherfuckers in the entire paranormal community and you’re a blight on this board.
>>42370479heliocentrism is an attack on the bible, which is an attack on the firmament. Stop trying to make evil ideas compatible with biblical cosmology. its a packaged dealeither accept earth is flat and contained with a firmament, or its heliocentric sunworship flying vacuum balls that are spinning orbiting tilting and wobbling
>>42370571At this point, just fucking accept the planet is round. lmao
>>42371099Nuh uh.
>>42370844As if the mainstream science you speak of is not pushed by TPTB, lmao!!!
>>42370479Without a solid firmament, thunder eco would not be possiblehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knVgYNO_0OMTherefore Space is fake.
>>42371181the difference being that science is actually backed by evidence, and if there was evidence to the contrary, some other scientist would have already published it. Scientists are literally constantly trying to disprove each other and actually have to back up their claims instead of just making wild schizo connections and running with it. If there was actually enough evidence to overturn a scientific idea, other scientists would jump at the opportunity to disprove them
I think we should bring back the geocentric model where the planets and stars are embedded in giant rotating spheres made of aether for its aesthetic value. A long time ago I had a really nice artistic depiction of it, but it seems to have dropped off the internet, so consider picrel and imagine that it looked much, much nicer.
>>42370561Genesis
>>42371253Also each crystalline aether sphere is inhabited by increasingly glorious angels in increasingly beautiful heavenly worlds that are invisible to the angels of the spheres below them (and all of them are invisible to us).
>>42371253I like your model and could see it being on the right path for sure.>>42371236OP here. I just spent a few hours on this and this might be basic info but it's news to me-There's footage of the Artemis mission re-entering and the video says the capsule reached 4000 degrees Farenheit from the 'friction with the atmosphere' on the way down.Similarly you can see launch vids and reentry vids where they rockets def visually look like they're hitting a barrier at a certain height, and puncturing through it and it creates a crazy splash against the 'atmosphere'.Therefore I could definitely see an argument for this atmosphere, which already is basically a physical barrier since it creates splashes and burning from friction when things collide with it, being the firmament. Therefore- Science supports the existence of this firmament, and they are just calling it a different name.Why wouldn't this be the firmament? Accepting all counterarguments
>>42371236>needs to rely on scientists to disprove other scientistsnot even the way science works. cause and effect are empirical. anyone can demonstrate cause and effect, everyone has empirical observation.scientists arent special people, theyre just a bunch of liberal retards that take orders from the government. Scientists/experts are more likely to predict outcomes worse than average people, the influence and rolemodel of the labcoat nerd is worse than people realize or want to believe
>>42370479>Can't the firmament be absolutely real without necessitating that the earth is flat?Could be. A big shell around the globe. But there's no observation of such.>That we're able to reach about ISS level height before hitting the firmamentBut all the geostationary satellites are well above that.
>>42370479https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/42328608/#q42346530
>>42371407>this atmosphere, which already is basically a physical barrier since it creates splashes and burning from frictionThe atmosphere is like a big pool of water. If you think the firmament is also like a pool of water when you say "barrier", that is fine.But most people think of a wall, or something solid, or something that isnt over a large volume. And that is wrong.The atmosphere is an ocean, just an ocean of gas.
The concave earth theory does have a spherical firmament. In fact i believe it has one glass firmament above earth at 62 miles height, and another one later which contains the miniaturized universe inside another presumebly glass-like firmamoid thingy. And between them is where the wandering stars are (sun, moon, ...). I won't post it right now because i already did in the other thread but yeah.Other than that there is also a slightly modified flat earth theory which posits that earth is slightly curved like a bowl t hold the water, if that counts. But its still generally considered a flat earth map.I am not sure if there are any serious proponents of saddle earth theory and i am not familiar with any other shapes, but i imagine it would be hard to place a firmamwnt over a saddle. There might be genuine proponents of torus earth theory, actually, but its so fringe that the firmament is the least of their concerns. At that point you can just make up whatever you like as you go. Firmament or not, fuck it we roll.
>>42371756Science makes predictions. We know it works because it makes provable predictions about reality.You are not doing science, you’re just a dumbass believing memes you read on the internet. You obviously can’t make empirical observations properly if you believe in a fucking firmament.
>>42370571based tetrahedron earth theorist
>>42370844>Trying to understand god with linear non symbolic logicYour ego firmament is too stiff. Would you care to explain why the seals of revelation describe volcanic winter? Or why the book of Enoch describes a comet impact? While your at it tell us the meaning and mechanism of gobekli tepe and how it encodes the fractal spiral of awakening and existence. I know you can't because you try too hard to solve things.
>>42370489Bazinga? Bingo? Source?>source?The source? Allah?
>>42370561>why cant it be a ball within a ball?it could but theres zero evidence of a physical solid shell>bible says its flatnope. thats flat earther lies. its part of their shilling campaign to associate flat earth nonsense with Christ. they are only about discrediting other things.https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/
>>42372502Who the fuck would want to tackle all of that bullshit you just said? Anyone with a working brain knows you just started spouting autistic nonsense as a coping mechanism for your failed life. Lmfao
>>42372203Name one science experiment you have ever conducted or participated in, faggot. Science experiment is about cause and effect, hypothesis is the test prediction. Youre more concerned about people rather than the content of science. thats why you suck off scientists cock while being a science denier"Atmosphere" is not empirical you dumbass. gas pressure and 2nd law is empirical, which only further supports earth being contained. Firmament holds more weight than the heliocentric pseudoscience cult
>>42370479>Why do people push the flat earth thing?flattardation was a psyop aimed at discrediting conspiracy theories/truthism at largethis has been discussed many times alreadyit's also pretty much obsolete at this point since the glowniggers now moved on from denying & discrediting to partially embracing & manipulating "conspiracy" info instead
>>42372879>gas pressure and 2nd law is empirical, which only further supports earth being containedtypical flat earther idiocy.
>>42372903Enjoy being retarded then.
>>42372879>"Atmosphere" is not empirical you dumbasslmao
>>42372845he wrote some solid schizophrenia and you are seething about it. nuclear fimbulwinter from revelation, nigga
>>42372977It's ACKSHUALLY depicting an aftermath of a nuclear-powered subatmospheric comet impact.
>>42372977I mean why did the sun go dark for 18 months around 540 AD and why is it hard to find primary accounts of that time? Maybe it's related.
>>42370479>Why don't I see any alternate earth theories that include a firmament but also have a curved earth?Because anyone retarded enough to believe in the "firmament" is retarded enough to go full retard.Seriously just buy a telescope. You can clearly see that Jupiter and Saturn are spheres. You can track Jupiter's rotation to confirm it is a sphere.https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jupiter_rotation_over_3_hours_with_11_inch_telescope.gifThis was taken with an 11 inch telescope.
You can see other galaxies. Andromeda, the galaxy closest to us, can be seen with the naked eye under somewhat favorable dark sky conditions.This image of Andromeda was taken with an 8 inch telescope. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/p4kzg6/the_great_andromeda_galaxy_captured_with_my_home/You can see the structure of the Milky Way, the galaxy our planet is in. In late june / july the center of our galaxy is visible, and it is filled with nebulae and star clusters.
>>42373699Prominent in this photo are Andromeda's satellite galaxies, which orbit it like moons. The Milky Way has its own satellite galaxies: the large and small magellanic clouds, visible mostly only from the southern hemisphere.
Want to believe in God? Fine. Use the infinite beauty and grandeur of the cosmos as evidence. You'll be making perhaps the best argument for God there is.
>>42373699thx for citing your source, otherwise i would have had to ask. +5 reddit gold for this!!
>>42372141>But most people think of a wall, or something solid,Right, well here's the other thing- I don't think the Bible even says you *can't* leave the firmament.So where did that idea come from?From what I can see... the firmament could be the atmosphere... and it's technically possible to go through it without violating Biblical verse...
>>42373903>So where did that idea come from?People denying travels into space.
>>42373903atmosphere means air plus sphere. air doesnt take the shape of a sphere, air fills whatever container its infirmament is the container for gas pressure. gas needs a container.Funny how all the stories given by the well-trained space agencies cannot be demonstrated, beyond that, its a contradiction of what is demonstrated
>>42374215why does air need a container? what if i put it outside a container?
>>42374224demonstrate gas pressure without containment before you ask why it needs a container.container is kinda the prerequisite to demonstrate itYou must breathe high pressure gases in order to breathe or we would all die
>>42374251>demonstrate gas pressure without containmentThis has been offered plenty of times.
>>42374251if you take a flaccid piece of paper and blow air above it, it goes up because you are reducing the relative pressure at the top compared to below. so this uncontained gas pushes the paper up (bernoulli's principle).
>>42374289
>>42374260>choose one axiom in the universe to violate>choice is to violate the most unbreakable law that has withstood the test of timeyikes. Please have any other opinion, pineapple on pizza, jazz music being good, anything else besides
You can also see gas pressure when you have a volume of gas that is considerably denser than the standard atmospheric mixture.>>42374303Your axiom is as easy to violate as you are.Because it isnt one.you are confusing the definition of how something is measured with what that thing is in reality.So go ahead and post your google screenshot like all the other times.
>>42374317>Your axiom is as easy to violate as you are.kek
>>42374317entropy is irreversable, it goes one way. That isnt a measurement its a direction towards continual disorder with time, and its irreversable in all systems
Can't great a'tuin be absolutely real without necessitating that the earth is flat?Why do people push the flat earth thing?Why don't I see any alternate earth theories that include a gigantic turtle but also have a curved earth?That to me seems very plausible. That we're able to reach about ISS level height before hitting the turtle, and all the Elon Musk spacex launches and Operation Fishbowl are about never being able to puncture that turtle shell.
>>42374332Entropy and the transfer of energy is exactly why you can have gas pressure without a container.As has been directly shown three times.
>>42374341then it should be easy to demonstrate gas pressure without a container, instead of your cockwaffle nonsense about how "its been done 3 times"0 demonstrations have been shown of it. Engineers disagree as they have to develop refrigeration systems, piston engines, balloons, etc.
>>42374373>then it should be easy to demonstrate gas pressure without a container,>>42374260>>42374299>>42374317
>>42374373>it should be easy to demonstrate gas pressure without a container,show container. thats on you because all you have is a theory, whereas people have been sending rockets up out of the atmosphere for over 75 years.show that trillions of tons of gas can somehow just keep going up.i hate flat earthers and i hate this retarded meme. does anyone remember who some flerf faggot spammed thread after thread with 'show pressure without a container"?i do.
>>42374739It's the same idiot.
>>42370479>That we're able to reach about ISS level height before hitting the firmament, and all the Elon Musk spacex launches and Operation Fishbowl are about never being able to puncture that firmament height.There is no ISS. It's an hologram.
>>42374739what happens when you stop the manipulation of a density gradient?the gases disperse and seek equilibrium. You cant reverse entropy
>>42375541So you think gas has infinite energy to disperse infinitely?
>>42375581no the direction of disorder means energy is running out until we reach heat death. theres no infinite energy
>>42376290Yes there is. It's called the big bang THEORY. Dummy.
>>42376290So what is the limit of expansion upward?
>>42374988oh. i am also a hologram
>>42370583Nuh uh.Sure, go up to every religious people you see and go on the big tough guy act.So triggered.
>>42375541yes, that is correct. and we know that air gets thinner towards the top of the atmosphere. a container does not do that.
>>42377407how do i stop the manipulation of this density gradient so that the gas can go disperse?
>>42377407i think it does. this is why this entire point is doubly stupid - if the imaginary dome is high enough (and it must be very high or things would have collided with it) then there were still be vacuum up there.dumb flerfs can't just keep making their dumb point - they need to finally show proof of dome or shut up.
>>42370583Christians will be the end of actual research into the shape of the earth. Everything these jewish slaves do is done with the purpose of saying “you see! It’s just like muh bible says. Muh bible erff”
>>42376974there isnt a known limit of heat death. If there were a limit then you would have to demonstrate irreversability. heat death is the only limit we can fathom>>42377407gas pressure gradients in thermodynamic work and high order states are seeking equilibrium retard.what is the precedent to gas pressure gradient. Answer is gas pressure>>42377418the gases are constantly dispersing and equalizing. Thats what happens in a gradient dumbdumb
>>42377764uh ok
>>42372827>christian interpretationmore like wrong
>>42377764>there isnt a known limit of heat deathSo you think a gas with finite pressure has infinite energy.
>>42370479There is this concept in science fiction called planetary shielding.There's a building that emits/projects a shield up and around itself, and if it's of sufficient strength and has enough generators around the world, that shield will project around the entire planet.That's the irony of flat earth, many people support the flat earth idea because they fail to recognise the practicality of a 3D shield.In fact they don't even recognise the fact that the magnetosphere is literally a planetary shield, albeit electromagnetic and not a lid of frozen oxygen.That's besides the possibility that the planet is a sphere but far bigger than the little crater we're inhabiting with a lid on it.
>>42370561The Norse creation myth tells that the material world, Midgard, was constructed as an undulating plate with a bowl dome over it to protect it from the infinite clash between Muspel and Nifl.
>>42370479>firmamentim not interested in judaism, sorry. dont you people feel stupid for even talking about the retarded dome? even on an anonymous board?thats just embarassing.
>>42377934high pressure doesnt equal infinite pressure. No such thing as infinite pressure youre making shit up
>>42370479I feel like one is incompatible with the other, because the firmament is supposed to sit upon the "4 corners of the earth", what would keep the firmament "up" so to speak.A ball within a ball seems kind of silly no?From my understanding the firmament is supposed to be a more or less impenetrable barrier that goes beyond physics, or at least our physics, maybe it exists in one of the higher dimensional spaces and we simply can't see it. I've seen videos of "space flights" where the rockets seem to be scraping along somethinghttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/qaWr9hg6YDQAlso, if we're going by the bible, it states that it holds the "waters above" which is how the earth was flooded, so any firmament would have water beyond it, not "space". I haven't looked too into it but I've heard many other religions have a similar thing of "waters above" as well as the notion of it being flat and stationary.I'm not exactly sure about the shape of the earth but the absolute opposition to questioning the shape has me convinced that NASA is just full of shit.
>>42370479>Can't the firmament be absolutely real without necessitating that the earth is flat?Yes. The origin of the firmament is Genesis and the creation myth. God created an expanse on the second day of creation to separate the "waters above" from the "waters below." There is nothing in Genesis that would indicate God made the world flat. And Genesis says that the Sun, Moon, and stars were placed inside the firmament, which would indicate that the "waters above" is at least outside our solar system, possibly outside our galaxy. Flat earth was a relatively recent invention and misconception. We have known that the earth isn't flat since at least Ancient Greece in 500BC. Even if you take the Bible literally and believe a firmament exists beyond the Sun, Moon, and Stars, there is no biblical evidence for a flat earth.
>>42370479Oh fuck I finally figured this one out. it's like, we're a ball with a hole going through the center on a string running through it. Spinging on our access as we go (the string has slack) and following Polaris. Swirling around the Milky Way as we go.There, case closed
>>42379954>because the firmament is supposed to sit upon the "4 corners of the earth", what would keep the firmament "up" so to speak.According to who or what?
>>42379954>it states that it holds the "waters above" which is how the earth was flooded, so any firmament would have water beyond it, not "space"Genesis doesn't say anything about the flood. It talks about separating the waters above and the waters below and it's unclear if it means literal water or if is a reference to a life force which is what the Semitic root for the word means.
>>42380655Here this is like kind of the idea.
>>42380835Here's another with the Firmament added.It's kind of like our aetheric, celestial windshield
>>42380835>>42380881Forgot to attach
>>42380884>globe earth, but worsewherefore?
>>42381063Well I think OPs topic was something along the lines of>Firmament that doesn't necessitate flat earthSo I got creative.I mean, the earth doesn't have to be bigger for this concept to work in a way>>42380881>Aetheric celestial windshield^that's the only part you need.I'd like someone smarter than me to logically explain why something like this>>42380884 couldn't be the case though. Maybe not that much bigger but you know what I mean.
>>42378702Okay so how high up would the gas that does not have infinite pressure go before running out of energy?
>>42381093>why something like this>>42380884 # couldn't be the case thoughYou see that part on the bottom of your earth that shows the whole globe spins?We know where that spot is. We can go there. You can look up into the sky and see the stars rotate around that spot.Ancient Indians described this fact in their astronomy books.Two rotational poles in the sky.
>>42370479I kinda assumed the firmament was just the atmosphere surrounding the earth. Always have to remember this is ancient humans trying to describe something they don't understand. Either way the truth is what it is regardless of my assumptions. Doesn't really matter anyways, since it's hardly relevant to our lives.
>>42381743it kinda matters because jews and their zio-christian golems are willing to nuke earth over their fairy tales
>>42381743>I kinda assumed the firmament was just the atmosphere surrounding the earth. thats exactly what it is, firmament literally just means "sky".
>>42381710Are there pics online of this area?So like, I know that in the north we have the area of the earth that stays in alignment with Polaris (the dipper rotates around that star, looks like Swastika) but is there a similar star/constellation in alignment on the southern end of the globe? Wouldn't be near the center of Antarctica if it were? Not dead center but in that general area. Going to be honest, I was just throwing in the "mega earth" angle to explain the "dome" but it's not necessary for the "celestial aetheric windshield" concept. But again, show me some pics of the geographic south pole that would have some type of logical "proof" (assuming it's not entirely fabricated) of it being the actual geographic south pole. Like, I can find the photos online with the sign post that says "this is the geographic south pole" but you know that's not proof of anything considering that the only ones allowed there are government workers (essentially) and they're all lying sacks of Masonic shit. Like isn't there a way to mathematically prove this? Put it this way, if the earth were of a different size (slightly or not) then what we're told, would there be a difference between the real circumference and the currently modeled circumference? Like you see how in the pic above I have the entire known continents on the top 1/3rd of the northern hemisphere? Would there be a way to confuse the ring that would be considered the "equator" with the real Equator?Idk man, AI gave me more credit than you are here...Oh wait there's more though. Like I said we're following Polaris like a train. Well guess what? WE'RE ABOUT TO SWITCH TRACKS.Because like Sirius is supposedly our "second sun" because like we're apart of a binary star system and somehow that will make us jump the tracks onto a slightly different trajectory over years or whatever. Or maybe it happens really quick. Not sure. Maybe it'll be like that 2012 movie with John Cusack.
>>42381776I mean, ya this too maybe. Plus all the energetic layers like the ionosphere and magnetosphere or whatever. Have you ever read the book "Spin" by Robert Charles Wilson? That was kind of a cool concept because maybe if there was a dynamic "spacetime" aspect to the whole argument maybe it would be something like that....except a little different in reality
>>42371253it's funny because I've been thinking about this too lately. Maybe each star system has it's own flow of "spacetime" because the gravitational pull of all the planets and sun create an area of gravitational lensing. It we consider "time" being in part a flow of some kind of all pervasive aether, but that can have different rates of "flow" or different states of superposition (or resolution maybe) then maybe our entire star system has it's own space time manifold that happens to dictate how life develops. Also this "dome" or sphere of spacetime might act as a lens for star light from other area's of the universe.
