those that aim to redirect the oponent's energy, like aikido, hapkido, daito ryu, taijutsu, etc. i'm kinda interested in them, especially taijutsu and hapkido, but dunno what i should expect exactly (in order to not fall into a mcdojo), so if anyone has experience in them please share, as well as your thoughts on them
>>246396Wrestling and judo are the sameIf you push they pull and redirect your energy. If they pull, you push.
anon... sorry to be the one to tell you but this isn't real...
>>246408This summarizes it well. Furthermore: OP, what you're referring to is just a philosophy. It can be used in every single human endeavor that involves confrontation, ill willed or not. Personally, I believe it has a lot to do with Ju/Jiu (柔), which means soft, or gentle, but it can also have a meaning of "yielding", let your opponent over commit and then exploit his/her blunder. It can happen in boxing, chess, poker, car racing, etc. Doing so it's not easy anon, and many times you will come to find that attempting to assert your will will be more constructive, either to a victory or learning, than just staying passive. >in order to not fall into a mcdojoThere's plenty of guidelines about mcdojos. No sparring (very important for self defense), excessive emulation of oriental culture (but no real substance or understanding of it beyond surface level kowtowing), etcI assume you have no martial arts experience, and we don't know your motor skills: But I infer that you don't have any, and that the latter is just mid: Get into something simple dude: Hitting those flashy moves is not simple, and you will be learning far more effective stuff (for your skill level) in more mainstream martial arts like kickboxing, wrestling, boxing, muay thai, Judo, BJJ and Karate in that order. You can still apply the concept of using an opponents strength and what ever response you have will be far more easy to execute and as destructive.
>>246408i mean yeah, but those involve a lot of struggling in order to perform a takedown, while these ones are usually just making one move to throw the oponent. either way i didn't know what i should call them so "redirectional" made sense to me>>246420ooooh, yeah you're right, should've called them "soft" martial arts then, my bad.>to assert your will will be more constructivei agree, i just thought that it would be good to train, since i wanna train my falling technique (in order to not break or dislocate a bone when taken down)i've been doing taekwondo itf for a few months now, and used to do judo but the dojo i went to didn't have very good instructors (they simply told us "alright do this" and got into their phones, leaving the more advanced students actually teaching). so far i've improved my skills overall, but i'd like to keep practicing takedown focused martial arts. i guess goju-ryu or wado-ryu would've solved this but i have no dojos near me that teach it (﹏).also thanks for the info on mcdojos and the recs on martial arts :)
I love the way Aikido looks, and breakfalls are a genuinely useful skill to have. I won't really learn to hurt people, but it looks like a blast to do.
>>246409Not real but looks cool at least :)
>>246396It works really well if your opponent blindly throws their entire body at you. The problem is that people don't do that. Though admittedly, I HAVE used these moves successfully when I was attacked by a medium sized dog.
>>246437>breakfalls are a genuinely useful skill to haveyup, that's why i want to learn one of these soft martial arts, i mean i learned how to fall in judo but without practice it's useless :/>>246469>The problem is that people don't do thati guess you're right, though it would be useful if you're fighting a drunk or overall messy person who doesn't know how to fight well.>medium sized doglol, how did that go? i've been curious on how one should defend from a dog attack, since they're fast and if they jump on you you'll end up getting fucked up on the floor
>>246480You're living in a fantasy landIf you're "fighting" a person so drunk they can only shove their whole bodyweight into you like a zombie, then just low kick them and walk/jog away from themIf you're faced with an actual fight this shit will fail you massively. If you're going to waste time training you better do something proven to work against actual aggression
>>246490Ignore this nigger asshole OP. You do you, don't think too much about de streetz, half of it is bullshit
>>246396I did Judo and Bujinkan (taijutsu I suppose) for about 4 years before doing boxing and MMA. If you enjoy the redirectional arts, go right ahead, it's a lot of fun and it's important to let your body move in ways that feel natural to you. But if you're training for self-defense or, God forbid, a fight, then I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the best thing to know is a feint-lowkick-and-sprint combo. Martial arts that don't have sparring take years and years to get right. And I will forever be grateful for the immaculate awareness of distance and angles that I developed during my years of taijutsu training, but I would have been twice the fighter I am now if I had just started boxing back then. Timing and cardio are king.>>246408>Wrestling and judo are the sameI wish. Wrestling is way more hardcore.
>>246496i know, though it's fun to see these "da streetz" answers once in a while>>246534i see. since i'm doing a strike focused martial art right now (taekwondo itf), then would you recommend taijutsu? and also, how was the bujinkan? i've heard a lot of opinions on it, some say it's a scam, while others claim it's great. my main concern is that their schools always say "learn ninjutsu!" and it's just taijutsu with a black karate-gi. and i don't wanna enter a club that feels like a cult>Timing and cardio are kingyesssssssssss, most of the time fighters lose because they don't train their cardio enough, even if they have great power. this happens a lot on taekwondo itf, since we pivot a lot. i recently bought a jumping rope and so far it has been fun to use
>>246396>in order to not fall into a mcdojoFind a judo school that does shiai (normal competition) as well as kata (form/demonstration) competitions. It sounds like you're more interested in doing super clean kata but the way to avoid a McDojo is to train somewhere they actually pressure test the techniques they're studying.>>246422>i mean yeah, but those involve a lot of struggling in order to perform a takedown, while these ones are usually just making one move to throw the oponent. either way i didn't know what i should call them so "redirectional" made sense to meWhat you're describing is the difference between using these techniques against a resisting opponent versus demonstrating them in kata with someone whose job it is to make your throws look as good as possible. >>246469Dog judo is based. I used to do this with my parents' dog and it taught her how to flip other dogs.>>246534>>246542>Timing and cardio are king.>fighters lose because they don't train their cardio enoughAfter foolishly lowering my cardio standards from "wrestler" to "fitness normie" I narrowly lost a white belt judo tournament match to a guy with worse technique but better cardio and it still annoys me all these years later.>>246480>without practice it's uselessDrill your ukemi daily as part of your general fitness regimen.
>>246480>they're fast and if they jump on you you'll end up getting fucked up on the floorIt probably worked so well BECAUSE the dog kept trying to jump at me. The opponent being airborne makes redirection throws super easy as long as you get the timing right.
>>246550>It sounds like you're more interested in doing super clean katanot really, i mean i like 'em but of course i also like sparring, though competing isn't very interesting to me, i'd do it if i have the time and money>demonstrating them in kata with someone whose job it is to make your throws look as good as possiblei guess both have their use in that case, though i've seen some hapkido competitions that end up looking like judo ones, so there's that>dogslol, how do you do it?>cardiowhat's your routine like now? i'd like to improve my cardio training :)>ukemii'll try, though i haven't praticed 'em in a long while, since i did judo in fact :v>>246571makes sense, now i'd like to have a dog to try it out
>>246422>Those involve a lot of struggling in order to perform a takedown while these ones are usually just making one move to throw the opponentOh you sweet sweet summer child
>>246422>i mean yeah, but those involve a lot of struggling in order to perform a takedownYes, because they are real techniques against people trying to resist their opponents. >while these ones are usually just making one move to throw the oponent.That's how you know it's a McDojo. Aikido or Hapkido exhibitions look cool, but whenever they try to make actual tournaments, it always ends up looking like an amateur Judo competition.
How bullshit is Yoshinkan Aikido? There's a dojo near my place with good credentials. It looks like fun, but on a scale of "completely" to "not at all" how useless is it? I heard it's one of the harder styles, though I don't know precisely what that means.
>>247942Aikido is all nonsense. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Do BJJ.
>>246480in the real world you wont fall softlyand there wont be a mat and you'll likely have to roll out as well. All of which judo can teach you. in BJJ the majority of your class time is gonna be spent working out(the warm up) being taught a technique in the most half ass way possible for 10-15minutes, drilling with someone who doesnt know how to do it for 5 as the instructor goes around smirking and then sparring for 10-15 minutes
>>246550>one that does both shiai and katagonna be a hard find most prioritize shiaieven the current competitive climate focuses on shiai. You can still learn a ton from kata as you're putting what you know into practice especially with the actual survival stuff like doing a roll out from a throw and breakfalling
>>249338where as in judo most of your class time is going to be spent learning judo in some form or fashion
>>249340wether it's through uchi-komi, nage-komi, inline nage komi or through kata and randori. In some form or fashion you will be learning applicable judo
>>249338The majority of judo is spent learning throws that take 6+ years to learn to pull off sometimes on a resisting opponent who is also playing judo and only work 5% of the time if the person is punching you back The rest of the time is healing from broken ACL's MCL's clavicles, wrists, ankles and toes because someone tai otoshid you wrong
>>249373Damn Judo doesn't sound too fun.
This entire thread has been people trying to save others from wasting their time in Aikido, but those people wanted their time to be wasted.
>>249387Is it a waste of time if it's a fun time?
>>249404When the other alternative can be fun and practical at the same time, yes, it is a waste. I've always been team Judo and traditional Jiu Jutsu, but honestly I'd recommend BJJ over Aikido/Hapkido.
>>249406Aikido is good for a longer term practice or if you're older. In terms of practicality it leaves something to be desired, but Yoshinkan can actually be decent.
>>249373this is the judo trial class schizo
>>249386He's either a shitposter baiting for replies or a retard who thinks it'll take him years to learn what normal students learn in weeks or days.
>>246534>would have been twice the fighter I am now if I had just started boxing back then. Timing and cardio are king.This.I trained in judo and aikido, and judo is far more effective than aikido, but aikido taught me more about mind body coordination than anything else I trained, and helped me do better in the bjj and muay thai i would later train in.IMO, western boxing and muay thai are the kings of stand up striking, and judo and bjj are the kings of grappling because they focus on the submission skills that western wrestling doesn't.
>>249373(you)
>>249339At the schools I've visited kata seems to be mostly a niche old guy activity or done only for higher belt promotions.
>>246409Actually that's real and not from one of Seagal movies. It's hard to tell because he's always pure kino.
>>246396I don't think the idea of taijutsu is just redirection. It's more like fucking around until the oponent has no tension, then exploiting that.
>>246396If you want to learn the art go for it but don't expect to be able to use the techniques they way they teach you because they teach it wrong for fighting, do it for the love of the game.That said the core principle of redirecting energy is legit and legit overpowered if you do it right.The most important thing to learn is the twitch from daito ryu, i call it like that idk if it has an actual name but what they do is that they do a tiny push or pull to get you to resists in the opposite motion and then do the technique opposite to your reaction, for example they first bump you back so you resists forward and then pull you as you resists, its a tiny motion, almost imperceptible but 100% legit and you can use this concept in more legit martial arts like mma, wrestling and judo.Aikido does basically the same thing but in a circular motion, all you need from aikido is to instead of resisting head on, to simply move to the side and rotate to push or pull the opponent into you.Hapkido is literally just aikido but fast and explosive and teaches how to use the techniques against karate style striking which is slightly better than aikido.If you must I would recommend hapkido because they are legit athletic as fuck, you learn basically everything aikido and daito ryu do and then you can do something more legit focusing on the concepts of energy redirection, not the techniques they teach you, only the concept.
OP here, so in the end i ended up getting into BJJ and it's been a lot of fun. these three months have been great and i've learned a ton of stuff. i would've liked to get into hapkido but there are no dojangs nearby =(.>>250726sound cool, didn't realize that. wish the bujinkan wasn't a scam though :/.>>251051thanks for the explanation! i'd love to get into one of these martial arts someday, especially hapkido, hopefully i'll find some place that isn't like 2 hours from where i live •~•
