cris

>>980040
i know this is a schizo thread but why is this real advice? can someone explain this to a retard like me?

>>980115
i think it's because of the disney shading model that everyone uses. under the hood the math does the diffuse component of non-metal materials is completely separate from the math for the metalness portion of the shader.

in practice however, you can have grey values:
https://twitter.com/ArtOfPilgrim/status/1749902580359065640

File: carbonSteel.jpg (126 KB, 800x532)

126 KB JPG

>>980115
Because in physics atoms are either in the metal group or they're not and some retard that was clever enough to do damage
put this knowledge out there without enough context, and retards took this knowledge as gospel and ran with it.
Claiming you could reduce 'metallness' to a on/off switch because materials are either conductive or dialectic.

Metal atoms have an electron shield that reflect photons soon as they touch them this is why metals looks so shiny and mirror like.
Insulators/dialectics don't behave this way and appear diffuse or translucent as photons escapes into the surface thru the tiny surface imperfections and get's absorbed and remitted scattering every which way, why they don't appear as mirrorlike as metals no matter how much you polish them.

However what this naive understanding fails to to consider is how optical phenomena we see every day don't work like that.
Metallic surfaces are rarely pure or completely uncontaminated. If they are oxidized, has any sort of residue or oil on top or is a
compound material existing both of conductive and dialectic atoms and therefore exhibit optical properties of both at each pixel.

Pic related is steel viewed under a microscope. You can see just how much of the crystalline surface of steel is occupied by carbon, which isn't a metal.

>>980127
There are no known materials that are both ferromagnetic an transparent. Likewise, the Indium-Tin-Oxide that's used for TVs and solar panels is such a rarity in that it's both somewhat conductive and also transparent to visible light.
The point is that PBR is not realistic anyway. It's Disney-realistic. It's a chinese plastic simulator essentially.

>>980129
>The point is that PBR is not realistic anyway. It's Disney-realistic. It's a chinese plastic simulator essentially.

I disagree, PBR is very much on the right track, it's bad rep is from how it clashes in art styles and implementations by people who use a
trashy variant of it and lack the finesse to make the most of it. Instead of going for a subtle realism they go for hyper realism where they
over-emphasize the characteristics of materials to present what ends up reading like a cartoonish variant of the thing they depict.
It typically looks liek the material they intend it to be but it comes across as sterile and artificial like something from a photo-studio of
a surface that been wiped clean from all imperfections inside a clean room.

I've implemented PBR myself based on the 'Disney Diffuse BRDF' and they're very open about what it is and isn't if you read that original paper.
You don't like something about the look you can just change it. What's genius about the approach over legacy shaders is how it get's
you thinking about shading in a very unified way. It ensure that you develop assets that will looks just as you expect and behave as expected
regardless of composition and light conditions.

For example I don't use the same specular lobe as they do and that goes a long way to remove that typical 'disney plastic' look.

If you know some HLSL or equvallent everything you need to know to roll your own is available here.
https://media.disneyanimation.com/uploads/production/publication_asset/48/asset/s2012_pbs_disney_brdf_notes_v3.pdf

>>980130
Like people dislike PBR because implemented naively it allows someone who's bad at art make something that shades very naturalistic. If you combine subpar textures and models with very realistic light you end up with something that looks to us like toys made of various rubbers and plastics because those are the only surfaces in the real world that look anything like the artwork presented.

So PBR is a lot like the Marvelman, you have great responsibility to not fuck up because you're dual-wielding too much power.
with legacy shaders if you where shit your shading would look equally shit and that worked much like the drawing of a child
where the art and the shading goes together and it looks charming.

With PBR you get the drawing of a child where stick-figure man wearing triangles for pants now has meticulous depth and subtle shape revealing ambient light and falloff. But it no longer mesh, it's no longer charming as each element presented makes a mockery of it's counterpart.

>>980130
To me and to most other hobbyists it doesn't matter because I'm not trying to color match real footage and rendered CGI. I don't want or need the complexity it brings in and whether it looks good or not in the end is a matter of debate.
>>980131
That's right and that's why I call it Patriarchy Based Rendering. With the OBJ model, you could throw anything at it it would come out as equally mediocre. That's inclusivity. PBR tries to appeal to the elites instead and it's trying too hard to the point that most modern stuff is fatiguing watch.
You have to wonder why after pushing PBR so hard, now everybody wants to do NPR instead. And they're trying too hard to do that too.

>>980133
>You have to wonder why after pushing PBR so hard, now everybody wants to do NPR instead. And they're trying too hard to do that too.

Think it's a couple things going on there, the novelty of PBR meant all the trend chasers flocked there at the inception, but now it's no longer
the hot new thing, we see it in every game and every show and it's just the new goto standard.

But because it's now recognized how demanding it is on the artist to make something appealing in PBR that stands out amongst the competition
you see the flight of a lot of people who can't pass the mark. The same crowd who very enthusiastically jumped into PBR because it was 'the quick way to make realism' now flee to NPR for the same reason 'the quick way to make appeal' but now under the guise of 'artistic reasons'.

I'm not trashing on either NPR or PBR, both are and will remain valid. Just pointing out how trendchasers are always running for what they think
is that low hanging fruit within their grasp. But thing is you need to be a good artist to make anything worth a damn whatever style you go for.

It's like how pixel art seem more accessible to newbies, and sure the barrier to entry is lower, but take what one think of when you're talking good pixel art from the peak of the era when legit artists was practicing it because it was at the cutting edge and all of a sudden pixel art is no longer easy at all.

>>980135
>It's like how pixel art seem more accessible to newbies
I was thinking about Big Buck Bunny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE7VzlLtp-4
As an hobbyist, Blender's Internal render is easy to use, really fast on modern hardware and that level of quality is attainable to me.
Let's assume modern PBR or NPR are 100x technically superior, that doesn't doesn't matter to me because there's too many many sliders I have to adjust in very specific ways to be able to get anything at all. And the $50 extra dollars in electricity per month because I have to use a video card that was mostly designed for mining crypto, not to do graphics. That's my main grief.

>>980040
i like to put metallic in my painted surfaces to simulate automotive metallic paint

I put the sliders where it looks good

>>980177
You can do whatever works for you but think about it for a second. What's the point of having "physically based" formulas if the parameters are chosen by feeling?
It's like if I gave you a physics simulator but I didn't tell you what the force of gravity on earth is and instead just told you to go outside and measure it yourself. First of all, who goes outside? I mean... Who does that? You understand?

>>980184
What anon does is correct tho. Metallic paint has flakes of metal shavings suspended in in a coat with color pigment particles.
If you sample a pixel area of such a surface it will have both a metallic and a diffuse response at that point, what anon is doing is physically accurate.

>What's the point of having "physically based" formulas if the parameters are chosen by feeling?

If the model is correctly built you can't crank the settings anywhere such that it'll violate any physics.
A PBR model will conserve energy such that a pixel can't return more energy than what hit's it no matter how you drag the sliders.
Unless it's set to be emissive and would do just that in the real world as well.

No matter where you crank your spinners and sliders a physically plausible BRDF for a surface will be achieved.
If that surface has the correct settings for representing what you want it to display or not is another question but any combination of maps and settings
in the model are valid.

Maybe you made something more representative of a powder coated metal or a glossy ceramic where you intended to have PVC but it's not violating any physics.

>>980200
>A PBR model will conserve energy such that a pixel can't return more energy than what hit's it no matter how you drag the sliders.
[Laughs in open domain albedo textures substantially above 1.00]

>>980211
Run normalization on your color texture in case someone decides to stick a HDR-file in the diffuse/albedo slot.

I don't know what will happens in my shader if I do that, the thought to do this never crossed my mind. I guess it'll cause a nuclear runaway where the scene gets progressively whiter as I use ambient light probes that could amplify the light in a endless cycle.

>>980215
Yeah I know I was just shitposting. But doing so does lead to some "interesting" results, particularly in Cycles. I was shining a spotlight onto a piece of Scene-Referred artwork I made in Krita, and the bounce off the bright parts of that image predictably led to the scatter of much more intense indirect light compared to a regular white surface. I also attempted to make a "super white" cube with a white that was 250x higher than display white and it kinda freaked Cycles out, leading it to slow down and hang.

I _WILL_ violate the physics.

>>980223
wtf anon NO