>>287284301
they should have drowned thorfinn in a swamp

>>287284318
people like thorfinn makes this world a better place. why would anyone wanna kill him?

>>287284301
Trigun did everything Vinland Saga did better, while being actually entertaining and more thematically sound.

>>287284301
No that's not it at all
I'm a Christian anime appreciator and I hate on this because it's deranged nonsense by a man who hates you for disagreeing with his worldview
I'm not even a pacifist, absolute pacifism is against my religious beliefs

christians hate vinland saga because it's weak pussy shit where you let evil prosper despite having the capacity to stop it
christians care about making the world a better place so they go on righteous crusades

>>287284334
>people like thorfinn makes this world a better place
People like Thorfinn end up getting murdered along with their families

I'm surprised anyone even still care about this shit considering how the Manga ended.

>>287284351
Can you imagine Vinland's author trying to write a character like Wolfwood? He'd be incapable of making him a good person.

Thorfinn was viking Sasuke complete with ninja-running along walls & seething while listening to Linkin Park and then he just poof turned in to a sanctimonious cult leader who lets people get killed because he was le enlightened now and smug in his moral superiority.
Thorfinn was a mistake. he was always terrible.

>>287284301
You are aware that the real Thorfinn later converted to Christianity and spent the rest of his miserable life as a priest right

>>287284428
epilogue is coming soon, all of your doubts will be solved

>>287284488
Author's an idiot
All there is to it

>>287284532
The real Thorfinn is not related to this propaganda piece

>>287284488
I knew the story went to shit when they sidelined Canute when he was a major thematic figure.
VS went wrong when it just started being all about thorfinn.

I have no enemies. I love every single person on this planet. We should all be together. If we can't even coexist among our fellow humans, how would we do it when aliens come to our planet?

>I have no enemies.
I do not consider any man my enemy. I do not spend my time thinking about how take things from others, or hurt them, or kill them. I spend my time thinking about myself, my family, and my community, and how we can grow to make our lives better, without ever wasting a moment wondering how I could make someone else's life worse.

>>287284429
He'd be entirely incapable of it because a character like Wolfwood would shit on Thorfinn's retarded philosophy. Which became the backbone of Vinland Saga after the slave arc. I.e. the last time Vinland Saga was good. A Vinland Saga that actually progressed Thorfinn as a character throughout the entire story would be a completely different manga, made by someone who could recognize that 'Don't fight ever for any reason at all, regardless of what is happening, or if fighting would save someone's life, or even show that you can fight' is a retarded philosophy that doesn't apply to today, much less medieval Europe.
>>287284539
I remember people coping about this, and then the Volume release came out and there was no epilogue lmao.

Hi Vinland Schizo.

Looking to ragebait anons again?

>>287284570
>If your solution to some problem relies on "if everyone would just..." then you do not have a solution. Everyone is not going to just. At no time in the history of the universe has everyone just, and they're not going to start now.

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Reposting.

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>>287284657
Using google lens on this greentext has the AI generate an counter-answer to this post. It's interesting to say the least.

Part 1/2

The image contains a 4chan post presenting a highly critical "hot take" on Thorfinn, the protagonist of Vinland Saga. The anonymous user argues that Thorfinn is a selfish, narcissistic character whose shift from "ultraviolence" to "ultrapacifism" is just another way of avoiding accountability.
Here is a breakdown of the argument presented in the post and a look at the broader context of the series.
Summary of the Post's Argument
The poster makes several aggressive claims to support the idea that Thorfinn is the "villain" or a "bad person":
Pointless Violence: He chose to stay with Askeladd’s band and kill innocent people for a revenge quest he could have abandoned at any time.
Selfish Penance: His shift to pacifism is framed as a "mindbroken masochist" phase where he forces his self-hatred onto others.
Dangerous Idealism: By preaching "total pacifism" and a "fairy-tale country" (Vinland), he leads people into danger but refuses to fight to protect them when things go wrong.
Escapism: The poster views both his warrior phase and his pacifist phase as ways to run away from the consequences of his actions.
The "True Hero": The post concludes by claiming Askeladd was the actual hero of the story.

>>287284657
The problem is that it was written by someone who unironically sees this and thinks "that's what a good person would do"

>>287284681
Part 2/2

Counter-Perspective: The Theme of Redemption
While the poster’s view is a common "cynical" take found in anime circles, it ignores the central philosophical question of Vinland Saga: Is it possible to truly atone for an unforgivable past?
Accountability vs. Guilt: Thorfinn doesn't view his pacifism as "running away." In the "Slave Arc," he realizes that he cannot bring back the dead, so his only path forward is to build something that offsets the destruction he caused.
The "First Resort" Problem: Thorfinn’s struggle isn't just about not fighting; it’s about his vow to find a "first resort" other than violence. He acknowledges that he is a "bad person" (a recurring internal monologue), which is why he feels he has no right to use violence ever again, even in self-defense.
Askeladd as a "Hero": Calling Askeladd the hero is a popular but controversial take. While Askeladd is a charismatic and brilliant strategist, he is also a mass murderer and a manipulator who ruined Thorfinn’s life. He serves more as a deconstruction of the "Viking Hero" than a traditional protagonist.
Why this is a "Hot Take"
This post is a classic example of media contrarianism. It intentionally flips the intended narrative (Thorfinn's growth from a beast to a man) and reframes it as a character flaw.
The author of the manga, Makoto Yukimura, has often stated that the series is a critique of violence in history and fiction. The tension the poster feels—the frustration with Thorfinn's refusal to fight—is actually a deliberate part of the reading experience, meant to make the audience question why we crave violence in our "heroes."

Do you anons agree with what the AI is saying?

Thorfinn should have killed Floki.
But by that point he was already pussy-I'm sorry a stupid pacifist so he didn't do it.

>>287284681
>>287284695
>AI
Kill yourself kill yourself right now go drink all the funny chemicals in your house bathe with a toaster jump off the roof run in the freeway sleep on the train tracks attack a police officer

>>287284301
The author has a disgusting philosophy and has to fabricate this absurd story narrative to deliver it. But even in the context of his own crafted story it doesn't work.

Thorfinn can only practice his "pacifism" from his unnatural pain tolerance and physical fortitude that he built through combat. It's from a position of strength that he projects his desire for peace. NOBODY can achieve that peacefully, he had to achieve that through violence.
Nobody can practice, follow or live up to his example.

The author is More "liberal" than he is Japanese, he's a self hating retard who is mind broken by shame for historical grievances. His story is fucking retarded and he loathes his son for pretending a stick is a sword, a natural desire for a boy to learn self defence. The author preaches an ahistorical, nonsense belief in deterring violence and maintaining peace.

>>287284681
I really really sincerely hope you kill yourself. What the fuck is wrong with you.

>>287284570
give hate a chance

>>287284837
What the fuck kind of glue did YOU sniff as a kid?

>>287284860
Fantasy?
It's very clearly supossed to at least be based on historical reality.

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don't care
made me want to exercise good will and good faith for the world and my peers, 4chan is allergic to all of those things and extremely conceited so its only natural that they will hate themes like these in their japanese intellecual cartoons

>>287284870
Based on but more in style of a myth than realistic real things happening

>>287284872
Brother I hated it because it's an absolute failure of everything you just said was good about it

>>287284872
Happy it did that for you
Dosen't change the fact the writing sucks tho

>>287284920
The writing sucks because he can't be honest about the subject
Good writing requires honesty, and he chose to write a story about the things he lies to himself about the most

>>287284860
>is that a...pacifist???
>NOOOOO I WILL SLAP THE SHENANIGANS INTO IT

>>287284301
Looking back how the hell is this the same author who wrote the prologe and Askeladd?
It feels completely different.

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>>287284872
Media literacy so bad you started living better after reading a bad story with a bad message.

>>287285001
Just my bad guess but 1/3rd of Japan uses Twitter. Back 10 years ago they were getting bombarded with retarded libshit algorithms and a not insignificant amount of Mangakas were mindbroken into acting like bluehairs. This author and witch hat atelier come off like authors who spent too much time in California.

>>287285006
I hate the phrase "media literacy" every time I see it some dumbass is using it to argue you're a bad person for disagreeing with their gay ship or calling them out for insisting that Naruto would be a communist
But you actually are correct here, so cheers to that

>>287285037
cheers, it's not a bad term, but like you said, retards abused it. reclaiming it is my intention.

>>287285001
Honestly it feels like a miracle this man managed to write that first arc
But the signs were thwre from the beginning, if you look for them

>>287284681
>>287284695
Half of this is just a summary of the post and the other half is just bullshit which is addressed in the post since Thorfinn doesn’t actually make anything better or improve anything. He leads a bunch of people into getting killed by injuns only to fuck off back to Greenland.

>>287285187
He didn't even build shit his vinland "paradise" is literally just a bunch of houses,1 arheind statue, and forest, it would have no walls if someone hadn't pointed it out thankfully or else more people would have died.

>>287285231
Part of me wonders how he got away with it. You would think that the survivors and or the relatives of the deceased would look for a wergild. The retard led a bunch of people into a shit show and then went back to where he came from. Someone is going to come and kick his ass and they would be 100% within the right for doing it.

>>287285346
It because the manga is written so Thorfinn's always right, i was laughing when they were justifying having no walls in enemy territory.

>>287285371
It gets to the point this stops being a story and just becomes propaganda

>normal person: i have no enemies
>4chan user: everyone is my enemy i should kill everyone because they're all my enemy
why are we like this?

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>>287285465
It's not even good propaganda, it contradicts itself, on one chapter they are like "a true warrior dosen't use swords", then in another they get attacked by natives using swords.
So which is it does violence work or not?

>>287285484
Kids these days don't appreciate subtlety and craftsmanship when making a strawman these days, I swear
You all just go "yeah, he's shaped sorta kinda like my opponent. Looks ready ro attack"

>>287285484
>appeal to normality
>strawman
>we
Projecting hard here

Manga can never be anything more than cheap shit for children and men-children.
Get over it, nerds.

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I wonder why no one points out the schizo who makes these thinly-veiled Vinland Saga threads just to strawman anons who criticize it's story and always responds with "nuh-uh, you're retarded" at every point.

It's just tiresome. The Schizo who haunts the Demon Slayer threads has more entertainment value.

>>287285764
Tell me more? Is he some faggot who got obsessed with it due to it appealing to his midwit sensibilities?

>>287284428
honestly people don't hate Vinland Saga's ending enough,even shit like JoJolion ended better

>>287285764
midren is trash and the most overrated garbage anime ever made. now cry a river

Absolute pacifism is an absolutely ridiculous ideology and is itself borderline evil.

>>287284301
it should have been set in feudal japan when they were cracking down on christianity rather than a place, time and people that the author has at best a surface level understanding of

>>287285967
It should have been written after the author got beat up in real life and came back with a brain

Arnheld's past is actually retarded when you think about it.

>Their village in Sweden has been involved in a conflict over an iron mine.
>The men want to go to battle to obtain the metal while the women doesn't want the men to join in because they are satisfied with what they have.
>All the men, including the younger ones leave to participate in the conflict and left the women, elderly and children behind.
>The village women ran out to see ships, thinking the men returned.
>The ships turn out to be an enemy village who attacked them while the men were away. They raze the village,

Civilizations far more ancient than they are learned to build walls and have some manpower to protecr their lands yet this little village in Sweden who involved in a conflict had so lax security?

>>287286305
You expect an understanding of war from this man?

>>287286305
Honestly the whole norse culture is depicted bizarrely, there's barely any exploration on their actual beliefs and architecture and stuff, it's just like
>Yeah they are warmongering barbarian minus this guy here and his son for some reason.
It's ironic because non norse get actually explored like Askeladd (welsh) or Einar (English) or the natives of Vinland, lmao.

>>287286326
Just pointing it out that even in the good arcs like Farmland had early warning signs even before the Baltic Sea Arc.

Heck, Arnheld's past also clearly showed Yukimura's bias towards women. Clearly, he thinks all women don't want more resources for their village and are simple satisfied with what they have.

It's no different from the women who joined Thorfinn's expedition in Vinland who wholeheartedly agree with his dumbass take that walls are bad and their settlement doesn't need them.

>>287284372
the catholics are poor christians at best
>idol worship
>death toll in the hundreds of thousands if not millions
>constant heresies, often ended violently by catholic inquisitors
>long line of shithead popes
>pope lives in a palace over a hoard of priceless relics and treasure
jesus would be ashamed

>>287286355
Does vs even mention the norse pantheon?

>>287286415
Listen man I think Catholics are nuts too but you don't get to attack my boys over shit they didn't actually do

>>287284301
he had faith that being a kinder person was worth it even when it was to his disadvantage, which does more to follow the teachings of jesus than most christians
not to mention the saga of erik the red literally ends with everyone deciding Vinland is untenable and leaving for home, which is how any of them lived to tell the tale at all

>>287286424
yes but only some gods
And they say it's made up

>>287286424
During the Baltic Sea Arc, one of Thorkell's warriors died in battle and expects to see Valkyries carring him to Valhalla. Instead, he just sees pitch black nothingness and wails that he believed in religion.

Of course, the Indian Shaman during the final arc sees a vision of future european colonization like black slavery, cowboys, pollution and even the fucking atomic bomb testing in american soil and this convinces him the settlers are bad.

Yeah, Yukimura is ideological hack.

>>287286456
to be fair what little we know about old norse paganism is mostly what christians bothered to write down, and they were not kind.
modern norse paganism is for selling little Thor hammer necklaces.

>>287286507
Yeah fair but it's still weird how most of the norse we see are almost caricaturers, like warrior who Valhalla.

Exept thorfinn and thors of course, he's the exeption, for some reason.

>>287284409
Because of people who want to make the world a worse place

>>287286507
No wonder why, considering they saw it as "those barbarian cults that are burning and looting our churches" or "that nonsense we used to believe before the missionaries came to save our souls"

>>287286487
Oh shit i forgot about the shaman vision that was hilarious,bro was seeing atom bombs.

>>287286415
Europe was never really christian, it was just something we painted on our shields while doing the same shit we'd done for a millennia before that

>>287286541
i think the blood eagle is a christian invention. its comically brutal.
but yeah, northwestern european christians had pretty good reasons to fear and detest the pagans.

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>still thinking that this manga has some philosophical point to make after the author repeatedly stated that he thinks only man is responsible for war, all women are good and that his sons are evil for playing with wooden swords

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This guy was right and Thorfinn's a hack of a leader.

>>287286593
If Europe was never Christian then nowhere was

>>287286593
You wouldn't even know who Plato was if christian monks didn't preserve the greek teachings.

>>287286628
>You don't know unless you try
>tries
>Fails
What now, thorfinn
?

>you see, this famous king of the danes, who willingly converted to Christianity after seeing that despite being conquered they had massive cities and great works of art and a populace that cared for each other, was actually fighting against God
>I know this because I visited Sweden and they told me all about the culture they hate
>also I am disappointed in my sons because I know they will be violent for no reason, I wish I was a woman instead, women never do anything wrong
We talked about this shit years ago already, you're an actual grade A cocksucker if you think Vinland Saga is intellectual.

>I have no enemies
>except other men who don't believe me when I say I have no enemies

>>287284301
Because Christians can't fathom someone being a good person and having a sense of right and wrong without reading the book that tells you what's right and wrong.

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>>287284301
It has nothing to do with religion.
It's the usual shounen good boy shit. Everyone is tired of moralizing wimp shounen protagonists.
People want to watch cool sutff happening, they don't want to be preached at.

The problem here is that he used to be cool, there used to be cool characters, and then they turned him into this. It's a bait and switch. This is not what people have signed up for.

>>287286902
your pic looks cool
a magical girl series where the norse pantheon is cute girls sounds fun. they made combat aces into cute girls in Strike Witches, so why not.
make pants optional as well.

>>287286818
How do you decide what's right and wrong, little buddy?

>>287286818
When's the last time you talked to one without calling them evil

>>287286818
Yeah those atheist states like Cambodia and China and Soviet Russia are really good and moral.

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>>287286937
synthesizing Objectivism with Ethical Altruism.

>>287287002
You don't know what that means and entails. Altruism still has to be defined with what it actually is. You have to define what "help" means and why it's a net positive. I know you're probably underage and have heard about these terms a couple of weeks ago for the first time, but you should read into it.

>>287287002
>synthesizing Objectivism with Ethical Altruism.
Objectivism has several built-in non-negotiables: Rational self-interest is the moral standard, your own life as the highest value, sacrificing yourself for others is immoral, and helping others is only moral if it serves your values (not duty). Ethical altruism is prioritizing the well-being of overs over your own, moral worth increasing through self-sacrifice and your interests are not morally privileged. You want to "synthesize" something that outright rejects each other. The moral axis doesn't align at all.

You might as well have said "I'm going to make fire wet", you pretentious fucking queer.

>>287286937
From anime.

>>287286955
Always?

>>287286959
I don't really care about politics but yes, they are?
Also, every developed country seperates state and church.
You think Russian citizens aren't Christian or something?

>>287287092
>I don't really care about politics but yes, they are?
...You genuinely have no clue what anyone is talking about, am I right?

>>287286818
your atheist morals are derived from European christainity and would be completely different if you were raised outside of the west
>>287287002
even rand and libertarianism is derived from chirstianity and the personal relationship with god vs collectivism seen in islam/judaism/all of asia

>>287287092
Does this retard really think soviet were a paragon of morality?

>>287287092
Nigga they killed people in those countries for being religious, you fucking retard. Cambodia had concentration camps for the religious and intellectual (and anyone perceived as such). What the fuck do you mean "I don't really care about politics" lmao.

>>287287092
>Separation of church and state means there is no such thing as an inherently religious or inherently athiest society

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>>287287092
>I don't really care about politics but yes, they are?

>>287287082
ayn rand is dead and leonard piekoff is senial. i will do what i want with her philosophy.
the hardcore edge can be sanded down. one can embrace secular rationality and see that altruism has been a major force for good.

>>287287092
ah yes the good and moral stance of beating babies against tree trunks because their parents wear glasses. sugoi atheist-chan

>>287287141
What do you MEAN the "hardcore edge"? It's the fucking core of the moral axis of the ideology. Please tell me how you define these things if you take out the core definition.

>>287287092
>From anime.
So your morality unironically comes from jap animated entretretaiment?

>>287286959
Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies

>>287287141
You literally don't know what these things mean. You're just saying words and change their meaning on a whim. You even admit right here that you think you can just remove the non-negotiable trait of the philosophy without issue.

>>287287108
>your atheist morals are derived from European christainity
this is the root of the problem, Christ could not have envisioned a greater love for ones fellow man than that of communism

>>287287175
helping people out even if they dont totally buy in or are confused by the philosophy. rand was hostile to anyone who wasnt a slavish follower.
she would let a trainload of her ideological enemies die, even if her hand was on the rail switch. one can be a utilitarian without embracing slave morality.

>>287287176
Seeing how he thinks Cambodia is a nice country that never did anything bad, I can believe it.

>>287287195
>Christ
>Communism
Ah yes Jesus would have definitely supported authoritarianism and massacres in the name of the party.

>>287287104
Yeah, so? Doesn't mean I'm wrong does it now.

>>287287108
But that has nothing to do with your argument.
So people outside of the West are inherrently worse people because they weren't raised on """Christian""" morals?

>>287287113
Sure but who didn't?

>>287287176
Yes.

>>287287200
You're not adressing the argument. Please define objectivism if it's not self-serving and considers self-sacrifice immoral. You're just saying words without meaning.

>>287287225
eat my asshole

>>287287223
I appreciate trolling in a Cuckland Saga thread but we had a somewhat nice discussion going on man.

>>287287223
>So people outside of the West are inherrently worse people because they weren't raised on """Christian""" morals?
i didn't say worse, i said different

>>287287195
Communism is philosophically built upon envy, denial of individual responsibility, and categorizing people by who you're allowed to hate

>>287287278
tied up with honeyed words. its literally the road to hell paved with 'good' intensions

>>287287240
I knew this is a talking point but I didn't expect everyone to go apeshit over a mundane statement like saying you can be a good person without believing in god or the bible.
Then again this is a Vinland Saga thread so meltdowns are to be expected.

>>287287276
But if good morals come from Christianity then how could people in non-Christian country have good morals.
Being different is a given but since the assumption is that being a good person is a result of Christian morals, lacking Christian upbringing would mean you wouldn't become a good person.
Looking at that it should be obvious that the Christian morals and upbringing isn't what brings forth good people. Especially since devoted Christians can be horrible people.

>>287287321
Good heavens you misunderstood everything

>>287287321
Nigga you said concentration camps can be good and moral.

>>287287321
>Looking at that it should be obvious that the Christian morals and upbringing isn't what brings forth good people.
jesus espoused a humanist and altruistic ideology in the form of parables. literally all the good parts of the bible are jesus.
in fact the jefferson bible is the bible with anything not pertaining to jesus stripped out. no supernatural crap, no old testament stories. it begins with his birth.
you should check it out, its easier to see the moral core there. remember jesus began teaching at a time and place were roman militarism was at its zenith. so powerful was the message that emperors embraced it and threw down their pagan idols.

>>287287321
Morals come from Christianity why do you think a lot of countries chose it?
It's because their previously morals sucked.

>>287287363
it depends on who you put in them

>>287287390
>it depends on who you put in them
Uhh you actually defending gulags?

>>287287321
>But if good morals come from Christianity
>the assumption is that being a good person is a result of Christian morals
again you're straw manning. i said different.
>Christian morals and upbringing isn't what brings forth good people.
all depends on what you consider being a 'good person'. raping and enslaving non-believers is what makes a muslim a 'good person' within their morality as that is acting in the same manner as mohamed god's most perfect human and final prophet. obeying your elders and parents even when its to the detriment to yourself to the point where you're practically a slave until you have your own family to abuse is what makes a good person in many asian cultures.

>>287287387
cynics might note Christianity promises the meek salvation and the kingdom of heaven, at a time when 99pc of the population was dirt poor. it appeals to the masses in a way paganism did not.

>>287286453
Jesus wasn't opposed to use of force. Did you miss the time he chimped out because people were using the area around the temple as a market?

>>287287212
do you know what early christians got up to? they didn’t feed them to lions because they dindu nuffin
>>287287278
that’s pretty much early christianity and judaism which preceded it

>>287284301
Because people construct their own idea of what Christianity and a Christian is in their mind with their flimsy understanding then go on to believe their own false image of what it actually is and how Christians actually are.

>>287287428
you probably shouldn't accuse others of strawmanning if you are going to strawman right back at them.

>>287287363
According to your logic they are if Christians run them.

>>287287387
Because it accumulated a lot of wealth and power over the centuries.
Christianity didn't spread by choice, it spread to force and power.
Same way hellenism did.
Thinking that Christianity is just that heckin awesome kings and queens everywhere started adopting it out of good will is silly as fuck. Sure there are those documented cases. But they are talked about because they are the exception.

>>287287486
what strawman? i asked what he considers a good person to be and gave 2 examples from non-christian morality

>>287284372
>so they go on righteous crusades
No such thing

>>287287466
>Chimped out
The man sat down and braided a leather whip
He had at least an hour to stew on it
That wasn't a "chimp out" that was carefully thought over and premeditated

>>287287580
>No such thing
What are you a crusades denier?

>>287287580
Do you know why the crusades were launched in the first place?

>>287287586
He was flipping tables and shit, that's a legit chimpout.

Why are men so violent?

>>287287616
not when the chimpout is legit!
money exchangers get fucked and take my true Roman coin

>>287287596
Because I'm a fanboy of the Byzantine empire
>>287287604
Yeah, same reason why the Iraq war started. Lies and false promises

>>287287637
less time spent as self-reflective agents than women. our awareness was induced instead of naturally occuring, which might mean its more fragile.

>>287287637
I dont know makoto, maybe because violence is natural?

>>287287637
God made us this way

>>287287684
So is shit, do you bath in it?

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>>287287674
>less time spent as self-reflective agents than women.

>>287287684
Kek

>>287287696
No I'm not a hinduu.

>>287287753
So you accept one natural thing but reject another, why?

>>287287658
>Byzantine empire
no point crying over spilt wogs

>>287287658
I don't think "Jihadists were literally conquering France" is a "lies and false promisses" sort of situation mate

>>287287759
i don’t think many people outside of india consider bathing in shit to be natural

>>287287759
Because shitbis disgusting meanwhile violence happens when arguments escalate to macroscale, so it's impossible to get rid of violence, the way you clean shit, you can't be this stupid, what even is this comparison.

>>287287698
the myth of eve is possibly rooted in historical fact, look up Eve Theory of Conciousness.

>>287287775
>The crusaders started because of the Arab invasion of France
>Two events that are 300 years apart
It would be like China invading the UK because of Opium wars, stop being a fucking idiot. You people always fucking do this shit, stop being stupid for your own good.
>>287287796
>>287287800
Shit is natural, bathing is natural. So therefore bathing in shit should be natural right, just as natural as beheading someone because they insulted your family.

>>287287855
No why do you think rivers exist it's so we can clean ourselves, disgusting poop.

>>287287869
hey I'm not the one saying bathing in shit is natural, it's you guys who claims that.

>>287287810
sounds like feminist bullshit just like if women were rulers there'd be no wars, but if you look at history female rulers have been more inclined to start wars

>>287287855
>shit is natural
>sex is natural
So therefore having sex with a pile of shit is natural

>>287287882
Why are you even equating violence with shit, they are two totally different conceptual things?
Are you a retard?

>>287287855
>It would be like China invading the UK because of Opium wars
yes? they're still butthurt over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation
it also wasn't just France but all the Mediterranean for centuries but what really broke the camel's back was denying christians on pilgrimage to the holyland

>>287287897
No that's not how logic works.
Did they never teach you how to do basic logic?

>>287287897
I'm not the one saying that, the people who claims violence is natural are.
>>287287899
Because Anon claimed that violence is natural and should be embraced because of it. Yet they refuse to embrace another natural thing

>>287287941
But violence IS natural, it's an objective statement, your feelings about it don't matter, it shouldn't even be arguable.

>>287287925
I know about the century of humiliation, but you're missing the point. If China was to declare war tomorrow on the UK because of the opium wars everyone would go
>That's fucking horeshit
Nobody would see it as a legitimatise reason for war, not even the Chinese public. It's not a valid casus belli, or would you go
>This is an valid excuse for war
for an event that happened 200 years ago?
>denying christians on pilgrimage to the holyland
Lies spread by a man who had never been to the holyland

>>287287959
What's natural about killing people when they are no threat to you? What's natural about beating someone to a bloody pulp and then forcing them to serve your every command?

>>287287855
Yeah except China hasn't been under British rule as second class citizens ever since the Opium wars, and the rest of Asia hasn't been under constant threat of continuous opium wars expanding from China this whole time either

>just be a cuck bro
great manga

>>287287978
Check islamic sources is you don't trust the Christian ones
Men on pilgrimage were murdered, women raped and enslaved
They admited to doing it

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>>287286415
Listen well Prot, keep your iconoclast rethoric back in the heresy department where they belong like the rest of your churches. Those who know the church either end up Catholic or Orthodox because Prots are nothing but larpers playing around as early Christians despite knowing nothing about them.

>>287288004
the opposite proves it is true
violence is natural to protect yourself from people trying to kill you or enslave you. you can say its naughty to use violence on others for no reason or selfish self-serving reasons but that wouldn't change the fact it is natural. natural /= moral

>>287287855
>It would be like China invading the UK because of Opium wars
china floods america with fent partially because of the opium wars, if anything we're in a new opium war

>>287286593
See? This is the result of protestantism

>>287286818
Hot take here: The objective of Christ and Christianity isn't moral perfection. Men could have been perfectly moral without Jesus becoming flesh from the prophets and the philosophers of old.
The idea comes from Western Christianity thus it is so widespread in Catholics and Prots

>>287286727
>no true vinland
>it'll work next time
the commie cycle continues

>>287284570
Aliens won't come to our planet.

>>287288036
Also is not even that weird. Muslims have always love that stuff.

>>287284570
>I have no enemies.
i am your enemy, if i see you on the street i will kill you
>how would we do it when aliens come to our planet?
all invaders must die. the only reason why they would come here is to conquer or steal our raw resources.

>>287288131
What's the objective then?

>>287288293
to try and be better men.

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89 KB JPG

>>287288293
Read "Theosis, the true purpose of human life" by Archimandrite George.

Basically God became men to fix the wound and separation caused by Adam. The union between Man-Divine in the form of the God-Man Jesus Christ makes humanity forever enthroned in the bosom of the Holy Trinity and thus we were made like gods through grace forever to be united because of Him.

>>287288409
I am so tired of hearing that meme from people who don't have a clue where it came from

>>287288730
Huh
Extremely close, but very wrong in some foundational ways

>>287289301
How come?

>>287287759
Are you retarded?
Most animals don't bathe in their shit and even amongst human, only jeets do and not because of a physiological need but because of cultural reasons.
FFS, shit is literally something you expel from your body and you do not explain why "bathing in shit" is "natural" when literally most lifeforms don't.

>>287290225
dogs roll in shit to hide their sent

>>287289830
The separation caused by Adam's transgression is also a necessary part if the whole plan
To become like God we must be first made free to choose goodness over evil, rather than just be puppeted about to the will of one that is good
If we never had the knowledge of good and evil we would be no more divine than a well trained puppy is a human
The purpose of creation was not to have cute pets that will not chew on his shoes, we are children of God in a very literal sense and we are meant to grow up to be like him
So the story of Christ is not of God sending his son to restore something to a former state, but the next step required for us to become far greater than we were ever before

>>287290332
But dogs do not represent most lifeforms.