>madoka isn't akschually a deconstruction because le derrida>madoka is just an edgy interpretation of magical girls and has nothing to say>evangelion is a deconstruction of mechaDo evafags really?
>>281879626Deconstruction is a nothing term tossed about by retards desperate to prove their "thing" has more depth to it and isn't just a silly cartoon because they're scared of admitting they like things as they are.
Is this the Madoka thread
Neither are deconstructions.
>>281879784What anime ARE deconstructions?
To understand what a term means, instead of trying to nitpick the origin of the word, try to understand how the term is being used and what the person using it trying to say.A 'deconstruction', in the context of how it's used in the anime community, is when something takes a plotline so formulaic that the audience goes in with preconceptions about where it's going, then it subverts expectations by dumping uncharacteristically "realistic" (I use the term loosely) consequences on the characters.That's what deconstruction means. It doesn't matter what it used to mean in literary history, that's what it means now.
There's a gulf between Derrida's walking of Kant to his logical conclusion and Derrida can cope and seethe, but he lost control of the word he coined when he was still alive. The /lit/fag definition of the word is the only one that matters in the context of fiction.
>>281879822The problem with this for me though is that the people who use the term the most rarely even have enough experience with the genre (in this case magical girls and mecha) to know what they're saying is being deconstructed. It is quite literally a meme, an idea that spread among people regardless of how true it is. And it hinges on the assumption that previous shows were all played completely straight and are "so formulaic that the audience goes in with preconceptions", which really is rarely the case and this way of thinking stems from the contempt viewers seem to have for what they're watching where they think "this series is different and everything else before it was trash". Imagine thinking that nobody in the decades prior to Madoka and Eva ever diverged from a formula or innovated within the genre.
Evangelion isn’t a deconstruction of mecha, but Bokurano is.
>>281879837>he lost controlMaybe he wouldn't if he had defined the concept at least once.But anyway, I believe that deconstruction should leave ruins behind - it's in the word itself, no matter how you look at it. And Madoka leaves no ruins. Therefore, for me it's a radical reconstruction that uses deconstruction at a certain stage, but does not end with it.
Got these 2 for 50$ eachPretty good for that priceTbh, I'm probably gonna have to get a dedicated case for them
deconstruction means something that is bad on purpose to mock the fans of the genreeveryone knows that it means, and no one cares what some philosopher said about it
>>281879969This is just more of the "realistic consequences" bullshit. The setup for Bokurano is pretty unique. I don't see how it says anything about mecha as a genre because of how unique its setup is. And "kids piloting a mech getting PTSD" (though in the case of Bokurano they also die after completing their missing iirc) has existed since at least Gundam. This is in the same line as people talking about the hope aspect of Madoka, which again, is a pretty internal concept to the show itself and doesn't really relate to the genre at large. So yet again we're back to "x but dark/realistic", which really doesn't even fit with what you think of when you think of deconstructing something. There should be another term for it if people are so obsessed with that concept. But it seems more like something people with no familiarity to a genre would obsess over as opposed to fans of a genre that might enjoy a series actually playing with the staples of the genre.I always like to bring up CCS in these discussions because I feel like the way Sakura's outfits are normal clothes made by her friend rather than coming from a transformation sequence is a much better example of what I feel people are trying to get at with the term deconstruction.
Anyone who name something as deconstruction is a fucking pseud bitch I swear to god. It's like they had nothing to say but they wanted to be seen smart.
>>281879626>Youtube video thumbnail OPWhy don't you niggers just comment on the video
>>281880061That's satire.
>>281880130The most galling part is that people who think GENRE X BUT EDGY is a deconstruction really only show how little they know about the genre in the first place. It's especially notable in the mecha genre where people don't realize just how rare happy endings in those shows use to be. And it seems every now and then someone will say "Unlike other shows ours is about the characters" and then write a show with little robot action and dull characters.
Deconstruction is when you take a genre and rearrange it's various elements to highlight the pros and cons of those specific elementsDeconstruction of food, like a deconstructed pizza, is so you can experience the crust separate from the sauce, or the toppings, or the cheese, or combine them in a different way (such as cheese under the sauce) So for anime genres, like magical girl or mecha, any anime that pulls specific elements out and presents it with an unusual emphasis, to draw attention to those traits is a deconstruction.Madoka takes the trope of the prepubescent (and some pubescent) girls having magic to fight monsters as problematic to the mental well being of these young girls. So it's a deconstruction.Nge takes a lot of elements and rearrange them as well. Gurren lagann is one that takes the elements if the genre and just emphasises them all to over the top levelsIt doesn't pull specific ones and put unusual emphasis on them, it emphasises them all in the same balance they normally are
I don't think "deconstructions" actually exist. Or at the very least the term is completely misused by people who don't engage with the genres that are being deconstructed. Leading to people thinking shit like EVA is a deconstruction while it isn't
>>281879626I have everything has to be complex and meaningful fatigue.
>>281880480It does not. It's like when people try to make things sound more than what it is like EVA. I like that series, it has symbolism but people like Anno do things because they are cool not always to try and create this omega complex universe.
Is EVA a deconstruction of mecha? Is madoka a deconstruction of magical girls?Is watchmen a decontruction of super heroes?Is hunter x hunter a deconstruction of shonen?Is the first chapter of spiderman a deconstruction of the male fantasy?Deconstruction is meant to show or expose the contradictions in a story, often depicting brutality/tragedy shown as the outcome.Deconstruction was already a loose term but i dont think a story showing darker themes makes it a critique or deconstruction of the genre nor makes it better, after so much subvertion and irony in media (both west and east) a straightfoward story has much more to say than whatever word salad pseudo intelectual dishonest garbage is out thesr days.
>>281879626Deconstruction isn't something deep; it's just the subversion of tropes of the genre, and yeah "what if the mascot is an evil exploiter of little girls " is that type of subversion
>>281879821Samurai Flamenco
>>281879821I've never heard of deconstructions outside the context of Madoka and Eva so I don't even know what /lit/fags originally meant by it.Is is just a middle finger in the form a book, sent by one person who sniffs his own farts to a group of people who sniff each other's farts?
>>281879626Eva is a deconstruction of super robot shows akschually
>>281880968It's a mockery from a fan, like you know every brick that used to build the story in that genre, but you're bored and irritated because how stale the genre is, so you start to change the order of bricks to see what would happen.Like, in harems, the main intrigue is what a girl will win the MC bowl? What if he girlfied almost immediately? How will the story look after?
>>281880130muh realism has lost all it's meaning when westoids have devolved so much culture wise thanks to kikestoday in the west most people think having a virgin heroine is unrealistic
>>281879626Madoka is very clearly a deconstruction. It's not even a question
>>281881021How exactly?
deconstruction is when I watch something that I know nothing about and it doesn't have all the cliches I had invented in my head 5 minutes ago and it blows my stupid mind so much so I have to go on the internet and use smart-looking terms nobody understands to win fake internet points
>>281879822There's already a term for that, it's called subversion.And the term is always thrown around by idiots who have no clue about a genre's history or conventions or expectations. Like Evafags who have never seen any other mecha and think Eva did something unexpected or subversive.
>>281880438>Madoka takes the trope of the prepubescent (and some pubescent) girls having magic to fight monsters as problematic to the mental well being of these young girls. So it's a deconstruction.No it's not. That's just putting a twist on it. At the end of the day it's still magical girls fighting monsters. It doesn't actually change or reflect anything of the genre. >Nge takes a lot of elements and rearrange them as well. No it doesn't. It's just Aonno putting some more cloak and dagger into Jerry Anderson.>Gurren lagann is one that takes the elements if the genre and just emphasises them all to over the top levelsYou're an idiot.
>>281880037Nice. I got the same ones but I’m waiting for after I’m done moving to unpack them.
>>281879626Madoka isn't deconstruction because everything it does was already done by Sailor Moon two decades prior.NGE is a deconstruction, at least the original series.
>>281881373>NGE is a deconstruction, at least the original series.No it's not. It's a bog standard giant robot anime with a bog standard monster of the week formula. It doesn't change or reflect on anything prior. Watch literally any amount of mecha anime made before the 90s
Leftist degeneracy has ruined the word "deconstruction" for everyone.If deconstruction means duuuurrr challenge gender norms duuurrr feminism duuurrrr men bad duuuurrrr lgbtxyz then obviously Madoka isn’t that.But if it means having a twist that points out holes in common tropes of your genre, then it does have some deconstruction elements, even if it wasn’t the first to do them (the evil mascot was already a thing in Bokurano for example).
>>281879626All deconstruction means in anime terms is taking common wish-fulfillment tropes or genres and bringing them back down to earth by applying realistic consequences to them.For that Madoka is indeed a deconstruction because it’s framing being a Magical Girl as being a bad thing and a life of pain and suffering rather than your common wish-fulfillment fantasy. At the end of Madoka the girls throughly realize they were better off before becoming Magical Girls and wish for their old, normal lives back.>>281880130>CCS Ironically enough, CLAMP seems to be going down the Madoka school of deconstruction with the Clear Card arc, Sakura’s powers are growing too strong for her own good and are beginning to be harmful to her…>>281881373>Madoka isn't deconstruction because everything it does was already done by Sailor Moon two decades prior.That still makes it a deconstruction, just one that blatantly ripped off the original deconstruction of the genre.There’s no rule that says deconstructions have to be 100% original, all they have to do is subvert the expectations of the genre.
>>281881302>don't use that tvtropes term>use [other tvtropes term]
>>281881479>all they have to do is subvert the expectations of the genre.And to do that you have to actually understand the genre which you clearly don't. This isn't unexpected.
why do you need this badly to use fancy terms to describe the anime you like
>>281881479>because it’s framing being a Magical Girl as being a bad thing and a life of pain and sufferingyou would actually struggle to find any magical girl anime that doesn't do this before meguca
>>281881555>you would actually struggle to find any magical girl anime that doesn't do this before megucaCCS? At least before Clear Card.Tokyo Mew Mew, Mermaid Melody, and Wedding Peach too.
>>281881555>>281881657Also Saint Tail
>>281881657>Tokyo Mew Mew,You really haven't watched shit and only parrot jewtubers do you?
>>281879822>>281879909>>281880130The problem with all of that is that the word deconstruction still exists and it obviously refers to EVA and Madoka.That’s just how the word is used now.The definition of words has always been cultural and not formal.To try to demand that a word fit some kind of formal definition is a inherently fallacious proposition that denies the apparent structure of observable reality.Therefore the only chance we really have to define a word is to observe its use phenomenologically and therefore infer the meaning empirically.As such, we must ask: what do these works have in common that works that the word is not used for have not?The irony is of course that people would arguably also call „now and there, here and then“ a deconstruction of the isekai genre, even though it’s much older than the genre. The question is also what to make of shows like Utena and tutu as they are not quite deconstructions but tend in that direction.Therefore the commonly used definition of „it broke with the formula for once“ is just plain wrong.However in the collective consciousness the formula still exists, and it is broken by a deconstruction. Therefore I offer a different definition:What is deconstructed and subverted is not the genre as a historic phenomenon - but the genre as a fantasy existing inside of the viewers head. The fantasy that the user is imagining himself as: a magical girl, a mecha pilot, in another world; it goes and tells him plainly: have you considered this?And because the viewer is already self inserted it therefore confronts him with the existential consequences in the show.Therefore the thing being deconstructed is not an objectively existing historic genre, it is your own fantasy in your mind that you may or may not have; which also serves to explain why some people don’t get it.
>>281881681It seems like you’re the one who hasn’t watched many Magical Girl anime, how is being a Magical Girl framed as being a BAD thing in Tokyo Mew Mew?
>>281881710>UtenaUtena is in fact a deconstruction, but of the shoujo genre and traditional fairytales as a whole as well as the concept of gender roles, not Magical Girls.
The problem with people who want to make claims like this is that they often come from people with depressingly shallow experience and understanding on the genre they want to complain is being deconstructed. They just want to use it to try and make the one show they do like sound more adult or intelligent than it actually is.
>>281879626Deconstructions ruined anime for me, I can no longer watch any anime that attempts to play it’s genre straight and sincere, since I just start cringing internally and think to myself how damn childish this is.
>>281879909>>281880130>>281880230Evangelion was not a deconstruction just because it had kids getting PTSD. It was the whole package rolled together, Evangelion mechas and their enemies were actually giant biological beings instead of robots making it closer to the kaiju genre than mecha, the story focus is much more on the characters internal and interpersonal conflicts than the robots themselves as well so much that most of the merch is of the characters not the robots. Also Evangelion changed the industry, it broke the mold and influenced strongly anime after it. Other shows tend to have one or another trait outside the mold but not to the extent Eva did. Same goes for Madoka, it changed the image of magical girls even if some of the traits it is known for already existed in other shows before it.
>>281881743I do not share in that fantasy, if you feel like it’s a deconstruction perhaps it is. I couldn’t tell.>>281881847This is your own problem and yours alone.It is because you do neither understand EVA nor Madoka.EVA is ultimately about depression, and psychological issues. It can not ruin Mecha at all.And Madoka (Rebellion) is ultimately about how a Magical girl (Homura) saved her friend and the world through the power of love against the ontological framework of the world itself.If that ruins the genre for you then you just didn’t get it.
>>281881847>since I just start cringing internally and think to myself how damn childish this is.You legit sound like a manchild trying too hard to come off as a mature adult.Do your normalnigger parents at least tell you how mature you are when you show them shit like eva and mushoku tensei at least?
>>281879909>it hinges on the assumption that previous shows were all played completely straight and are "so formulaic that the audience goes in with preconceptions", which really is rarely the case and this way of thinking stems from the contempt viewers seem to have for what they're watching where they think "this series is different and everything else before it was trash".I don’t know about mecha, but magical girls at least are an inherently childish genre aimed at really young kids, yes.
>>281881847Pic related>>281881995>Magical girls are for really young children.Oh yes sure. Prisma Illya and Gushing over magical girls are really childish.There IS another magical girl deconstruction VN beyond the horizon, it’s Dead End Aegis.However it is almost certainly impossible for it to ever be adapted
>>281882075>Prisma Illya and Gushing over magical girlsI meant traditional Magical Girls pre-Nanoha, you know before the genre got invaded by smelly old men?
>>281879626The amount of seethe the word "deconstruction" causes among autistic weebs is a remarkable cultural phenomenon worth analyzing in itself.I think the root cause is that Madoka and Evangelion, two particularly high-profile deconstruction series, deconstruct mahou shoujo and mecha, two genres that are explicitly toy commercials for little girls and boys, respectively, that also have unintended fanbases genuinely mentally ill people, that is trannies (I remember Digibro was particularly ass-blasted by the idea that Madoka is a deconstruction of mahou shoujo).Autistic troons just can not stand their "obscure underrated masterpieces" being exposed as toy commercials for little children, so they deny the very idea that it is possible to expose those via critical analysis.As a counterexample, Bakemonogatari is also a very popular series that deconstructs the harem genre, and yet you never hear haremfags malding that it's "not a real deconstruction," or "acshually, this obscure 5/10 fanservice slop from the 90s had already explored deep thought-provoking themes within the context of the harem genre, so Bakemonogatari hasn't done anything new."That's because harem is a genre with a fanbase made out of people that are its intended target audience, heterosexual males. Deconstructing harem doesn't break the audience's self-image like it happens with troons watching children's cartoons.Tl'dr: just another example of unironic troons infesting obscure niche hobbies, this is a well-known and established phenomenon, see speedrunning.
>>281879626muh deconstruction is always said by people who don't watch animeEvafags say Evangelion is a deconstruction of mecha anime because it focuses on the characters and not the giant robots when that's every single mecha series
>>281881995I don’t know anon. What exact magical girls anime is aimed at really young children? There isn’t one probably.Magical girl anime are really precious as an adult.You have the cute magical girls doing cute things while also struggling and fighting. And also you have nice sounding songs about hopes and dreams. I really don’t get how you can not like it.Or how you can not understand that many of them are clearly aimed at the adult audience.Like for example, the opening for Prisma illya Drei has a line saying: „Together with you, protecting this world which is woven together by the stars.“If you don’t like cute magical girls friendships protecting their friends and fighting to protect the world with love and friendship, then that’s a you problem.And older magical girl anime at their best also have that. The lewds or extreme violence does not make really add it it - UNLESS it is used to accentuate those core elements.And many of the edgy magical girls shows that came out after Madoka didn’t understand that and failed therefore
deconstructions don't even existit's literally an empty signifiereven worse, it's an empty signifier popularized by tvtropes trannies and co-opted by underageb& pseuds
>>281882124>you know before the genre got invaded by smelly old menit was always for smelly old men, that didn't start with Nanohaeven 80s had shit like Dream Hunter Rem
>>281882208you mean genre deconstructions don't exist.not only that, but deconstruction as it's used is always predicated by complete ignorance of the genre the show is supposedly deconstructing.every casual pleb just has a million assumptions about how said genres were somehow never introspective or iterative on themselves to begin with up until the epic dark deconstruction came out
>>281882140>Magical Girl genre>Toy commercialsThat only started with Toei slop like Sailor Moon and Precure, stuff like CCS and Hime-chan no Ribbon were series that started out as manga at first with their own artistic merits and were aimed at the teenage girl audience.Even something like Princess Tutu was created by one of Sailor Moon’s former directors Junichi Sato independent of Toei, because he wanted to create a Magical Girl show with actual artistic flair and quality
>>281882194>What exact magical girls anime is aimed at really young children?90’s anime Sailor Moon and Precure?
>>281882140>acshually, this obscure 5/10 fanservice slop from the 90s had already explored deep thought-provoking themes within the context of the harem genre, so Bakemonogatari hasn't done anything new.The funny thing, I even know a harem series that fits this description.Onisuki is a harem that is depicted from the perspective of the main girl, the male MC develops a genuine non-romantic friendship with one of the girls over their shared interest in masturbating to doujins, and it even deconstructs the idea of not-blood-related sister.But there are no trannies seething over Bakemonogatari not being a real deconstruction, so you won't see Onisuki being flaunted the way magical girls fags flaunt Utena and other pre-Madoka slop.
>>281882140>Comparing the likes of Bakemonogatari to MadokaAnon……..Ararargi is just a fag who is torturing shinobu by cheating on her all time of no reason. It’s unbearably disgusting and evil. And he even just gets away with it and it is treated as a good thing.How is that any good or a deconstruction?If it was a deconstruction then he would end up stabbed like in the school days anime adaptation - which IS a deconstruction of the harem genre
>>281879626Evangelion is not a deconstruction of mecha. In fact, Evangelion doesn't really seem all that interested in mecha at all, nor does it really say anything about mecha that isn't related to what the show is actually interested about, which is interpersonal relationships and the various pains of existence.Gundam says more about mecha by grounding it in realistic functionality and placing it in the context of arms manufacturers. Even then the core idea of Gundam isn't about mecha but transhumanism and the expansion and development of the human psyche through expansion into space (at least UC Gundam).
>>281882280Utena isn’t Magical Girl newfag.
>>281882281>Shinobufag.>IQ below 60.I haven't visited Monogatari threads in years, but some things just never change.The main girl of Monogatari is Senjougahara, in case you didn't know.I can write a paragraph on how exactly Bakemonogatari deconstructs the harem genre, but it doesn't seem like you'd appreciate it.
>>281882336>The main girl >He meets her after having a soul bond with shinobuYes I know she is the main girl, dumbass.The problem is that you have so low morals that you don’t find the whole thing vile and evil.
>>281881302No there isn't already a term for it, because a deconstruction is one subtype of a subversion, but not all subversions are deconstructions. Consider a satire/parody of an established trope.
If you like deconstructions you should watch isekai. A huge portion of isekai are deconstructions.
>>281881322There are some deconstruction elements. For example, there's no such thing as magic so the magical girl phenomena is physics beyond current human understanding facilitated by a much more advanced alien civilization representing the animal mascots from the magic kingdom. It's a deconstruction because it replaces the fantasy of the fairy tale explanation for a science fiction one which makes it explore themes hidden from view in the fantasy version (advancement of civilization, meaning of identity, long-term viability of the universe, etc). As a deconstruction it's pretty shallow but it's still in part a deconstruction. A mere twist would be if the magical girls were actually from the dark kingdom going through a process of evolving into boss characters.
>>281882457this phenomenon makes me chuckle every time i see itlive events must be fucking wild
I still haven't seen a single decent post about how Evangelion is a deconstruction. It has most mecha tropes and they're played completely straight
>>281881942>I do not share in that fantasy, if you feel like it’s a deconstruction perhaps it is. I couldn’t tell.How Utena is a deconstruction:Shoujo: Deconstructs the romanticization and normalization of incest that is so common within the genreFairytales: What happens if the “Prince Charming” was actually a serial womanizer and grooming abuser?Gender roles: Utena would rather be the Prince instead of a Princess, well turns out traditional masculine standards are just as bad and destructive as feminine ones, since being treated as a “Prince” you’re expected to save everyone and fulfill certain expectations which would eventually cause you to crack under pressure like Akio/Dios did. Turns out those same masculine ideals that are always lauded as being better than femininity also suck, and it’s the whole system itself that’s a fraud.
>>281882592>the thing you like... is actually badthat's just subversion
>>281882592These are twists, not a deconstruction. /a/'s IQ is much too low to have this media literacy discussion.
>>281882633>To think none of that would have happened if the prince wasn't a niggerHe was an Abo actually, since Akio and Anthy are meant to be Pajeets, not Nogs.
>>281882448A deconstruction isn't a subversion, either in the literary or TvTropes sense of the term. A deconstruction plays things brutally straight: either by revealing what the text implies without the author's interpretation (literary) or by showing how genre concerts would play out in reality (TvTropes). The point is to not subvert expectations, but to show the truth of the matter. Satire in the strictest sense is pretty close to deconstruction; it doesn't aim to subvert your expectations, but to denounce something by highlighting the absurdities of it.This is why people who know what they're talking about about call Evafags and Madokafags retarded when they start throwing around the term deconstruction.>t. Madokafag, Evafag, and lit crit student
>>281879672Reddit post.
>>281882653The Gender Roles part is dead-on, though. The first two points whiffed, but Utena revealing how repressive gender roles (or playing your "part" in a pat narrative) by showing how warped it makes everyone in the show is done as a proper deconstruction. The narrative refrain of the fairytale opening that ends with "But are you sure this is a good idea" is supposed to bring attention to this.
>>281882788Utena plays the masculine role as a woman which is nothing more than a twist. A deconstruction would be a realistic examination of Utena's role, which in a fairy tale is directly linked to her sex.
>>281882743Forgot a bit: Madoka and Eva are not deconstructions because they are steeped in the language of their forebears, without trying to cut to the heart of the genre. Evafags think that Eva does because they don't watch mecha, but the Real Robot genre has been exploring the tolls of war and emotional trauma on kids since 1979. The pathos-laden sci-fi org comes from Bong TV shows and early Ultraman. Eva itself is so structurally similar to a Tomino Super Robot show Anno owes that nigga royalties.Madokafags think Madoka cuts to the heart of the genre, when it's really more like Bokurano or Kamen Rider Ryuuki. Shocking deaths are nothing new to Magical Girls: Minky fucking Momo's where Truck-kun came from, and the Senshi went through lives like toilet paper. Even Kyubey's twist was done earlier in Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne.In both cases, it's borne of ignorance and a misunderstanding of the genre, or the pick-me ass desire to not look uncool by watching anything other than shonenshit or whatever is acceptable to casuals.
>>281881479>>281879969bokurano is already based on a really old gritty manga (the moon) which has a similar setup of various kids needing to work together to control a robot, with the diference they do it at the same time instead of one by one, and has some really dark moments. there are even some indirect references to it in bokurano itself.
>>281882887>Madoka cuts to the heart of the genreIf you think that Madoka is just dark and edgy then you are mentally ill.It’s freezing temperature IQ.Madoka is not a deconstruction because it is dark and edgy, the real deconstruction is actually about selfishness and selflessness. It shows that humanity is normally incapable of selfless action, and therefore the pure magical girl is not perfectly pure at all but is driven by selfish desire. Like how Sayaka is driven mad by resentment when it turns out she can’t be with Kyosuke, or when Kyoukos wish to make her fathers dream a reality destroys her family.Or how Madoka wishing to erase all witches and sacrifice herself is revealed to be a mistake, and the world is still not worth saving and Madoka is just putting up a tough front.And finally the ultimate subversion is when the dark magical girl Homura who is pragmatic and fights with conventional weapons turns out to be a genuine magical girl of love and courage and pulls down madoka from heaven and breaks the fabric of reality with her love.Madoka is not dark or nihilistic at all, it’s actually the single most optimistic anime of all time because the whole point is that EVEN DESPITE ALL OF IT, love and friendship saved the world.If you miss that then it is your own problem alone.
>>281879626I fucking despise tvtropes
>>281882743>>281882887The term deconstruction is not as tightly defined as you present it here. A word is mainly defined according to how people actually use it, and according to any such metric Madoka and Eva are consistently high quality, widely understood samples fitting the word/idea behind it.
>Deconstruction denotes the pursuing of the meaning of a text to the point of exposing the supposed contradictions and internal oppositions upon which it is founded—supposedly showing that those foundations are irreducibly complex, unstable, or impossible. It is an approach that may be deployed in philosophy, in literary analysis, and even in the analysis of scientific writings.[43] Deconstruction generally tries to demonstrate that any text is not a discrete whole but contains several irreconcilable and contradictory meanings; that any text therefore has more than one interpretation; that the text itself links these interpretations inextricably; that the incompatibility of these interpretations is irreducible; and thus that an interpretative reading cannot go beyond a certain point. Derrida refers to this point as an "aporia" in the text; thus, deconstructive reading is termed "aporetic".[44] He insists that meaning is made possible by the relations of a word to other words within the network of structures that language is.[45]>Derrida initially resisted granting to his approach the overarching name deconstruction, on the grounds that it was a precise technical term that could not be used to characterize his work generally. Nevertheless, he eventually accepted that the term had come into common use to refer to his textual approach, and Derrida himself increasingly began to use the term in this more general way. It's crazy that evafags and madokafags corrupted this further into meaning "a show that calls other shows stupid".
>>281882653>These are twists, not a deconstruction.Utena does play around with the whole “Prince” and “Princess” roles, and how attempting to play said roles straight is actually really harmful.>>281882854>Utena plays the masculine role as a woman which is nothing more than a twist. A deconstruction would be a realistic examination of Utena's role You didn’t watch Utena, otherwise you would know that the latter is ACTUALLY what ends up happening and the former is just a very surface-level interpretation.
>>281882743Deconstruction resides in the same bullshit area as death of the author. It's exists so that a bunch of jackasses can masturbate about semantics and redefine terms to their own satisfaction. Derrida is the worst kind of philosophical pretentious jackass.
>>281883150>exposing the supposed contradictionsanon, that's fancy for calling something stupid. looks like madokaevafags are 2highiq
>>281883077It is. Homura isn’t happy just yet. But at that price she saved the world.The question is one of ontological definition however. Homura saved the world in the same way the Christ saved the world by dying on the cross.Before the world was not worth saving, as Homura says in Episode 12.Now the world exists for love, therefore it is saved. Thereby Homura attained the resurrection of the dead.What would „saving the world“ even mean in any other context?Without the resurrection of the dead all faith and all things are meaningless. If you do not understand that, then you can not comprehend the concept of „saving the world“ at its most fundamental most primordial level.
>>281883091One of the biggest problem with genre deconstruction is that is treated like it is an objective aspect of a show, yet the term is so vaguely defined as to be practically meaningless. And the way people actually use the term seems to essentially be "when someone imagines a show calling out imagined flaws in an imagined genre". While still thinking it is an objective aspect of a show and not their own bias talking.
>>281883200>It’s pretentious because I don’t understand itBrainlet moment
>>281883285The Madokami world is an abomination it did not improve at all.Madokami is portrayed as a savior but WHO did she really save?Magical girls still fight the same tragedy and horror, and the curses are still there all the same. It JUST CHANGED FORM. That is what Homura says in episode 12:„Just because Witches are no longer born into this world, doesn't mean the curses harbored by mankind have ceased to exist. The distortions of the world have merely changed form, and now prey on people from the shadows. This irredeemable world may be nothing but a cycle of sadness and hatred—— but even so, this was a place she once tried to protect.I remember that. And I will never forget it. That is why—— I'll keep fighting.“Note that Homura is saying about the world that Madoka once TRIED to protect it. She tried and failed, because the world is not worth saving.The fact that magical girls do not turn to witches but just die in battle does not make the whole thing much different. We can use Kyubeys analogy with the cattle where he says that this is how magical girls are seen by the incubators:Madoka made the slathering process of the cattle somewhat more humane.Congratulations, the world is saved!This is how easily you people are blinded by appearances.Homura on the other hand literally brought people back who were dead.Homura has full control over the curses and can minimize the actual harm done.The world that Homura has created, while distorted genuinely seems much more benevolent then the one that was before.Homura rules that world and does her best. She may not be perfect but if you look at the characters: everyone is alive and seems happy.What is wrong with that? Oh it’s the appearance, because Homura is evil!Yes yes we know.It all so tiresome.This is btw. Exactly the reason why people crucified Christ: because he healed people on a sabbath.
>>281883718In other words a more humane slaughtering process for cattle.Like when they put a bolt into their heads instead of just bleeding them out alive.Sure it’s an improvement.But I wouldn’t call that „saving the world“.Homura is absolutely right in her assessment.And also remember: no one knows that this is the case anyway so it doesn’t really change anything for them up to the point where they are put down by Madoka.
>>281883924>the girls are smiling as they kick the bucket so it's more morally correctthis is how it works according to cuckbutcher cocksuckers
>>281881555Full Moon does this, it doesn't cure her cancer.
>>281884025No that’s not how it works, because the series explicitly denounces that view. Like I literally posted you a quote from the original source that denounces it but you still do not listen.It is like talking to mentally ill children who can not read.The whole point is to show that that which looks good often isn’t. You fell for it. And it is even directly telling you so, but you don’t get it.
>>281879626>>281879766Modern magical girls like Madoka suck
>>281880130CCS is a reconstruction of the early days of the magical girl genre before Sailor Moon mixed it with sentai.
>>281883200The word/concept of deconstruction has nothing to do with Derrida. Some of the original users of the word may or may not have beeb inspired by this coining, but the ultimate understanding of the term derives from the simple fact it's regarded as meaning "something taken apart...deconstructed". What I said about usage continues to hold.
>>281881322>No it's not. That's just putting a twist on itYes, that's my point Deconstruction is just a specific twist
>>281882281>Ararargi is just a fag who is torturing shinobu by cheating on her all time of no reason. It’s unbearably disgusting and evil.>>281882386>you have so low morals that you don’t find the whole thing vile and evil.LMAO, what? What are you so angry about?
>>281879626A true deconstruction can never exist since it would be nothing.Madoka deconstructs Magical Girl tropes.>Title Girl doesn't become a Magical Girl until the last episode>the cute animal is actually an eldritch alien monster>the monster of the week are actually Magical girls>Main Characters die all the time>the group never works together and never reconcile their differences Madoka isn't the first to do a lot of this stuff but they really went all in on it.
Eva is just Anno's attempt to make a coherent love letter to Gerry Anderson and Ultraman.
>>281881404>90sEvangelion was a deconstruction of Ultraman and other "Giant Monster attacks City get me teenagers with attitude!"You see the fallout from such an attack. There are people in those cardboard buildings.The damage and injuries linger and are very real.Constantly being on edge that the next monster is coming will fuck you up.The Adults are soldiers they don't fucking care about your problems.The main character actually questions what the fuck they're doing.
>>281885980But those things were already "deconstructed" by Godzilla in 1954
Evangelion is about the impact that Gundam had on the Otaku fanbase.Madoka is simply Kamen Rider Ryuki with magical girls (Urobuchi will then go on to make Kamen Rider Ryuki with mythological figures and call it Fate/Zero)
>>281879626The thing is that a genre does not need to be defined as „all magical girl anime ever“.What Madoka is deconstructing are clearly first and foremost:Nanoha, Cardcaptor Sakura, and Sailor Moon. Like it or not, those already define a subgenre within the magical girl genre, being the „mainstream magical girl genre“. And that is what it is all about.Got it?Okay!Now you can fuck off with your obscure shows that no one knows >but actually!!! No. It’s that simple.
Madoka's wish was a perfect response to her desire to be a savior because it was her way of addressing each of the conflicting issues the narrative presents to us:1. Save the world2. Stopping Witches from being born3. Saves the lives of countless people through all time4. Humanity civilization continuing to benefit from the magical girl system5. Helping to end the threat of the heat-death of the universe for sake of not just humanity but all alien species everywhere
>>281886363Madoka’s wish only really managed to do 4 and 5. Which already worked fine before1. no because wreights exist and do equal or even greater harm 2. same as one3. same as oneNothing got better except: >>281883924
>>281886345People say some really fucking stupid stuff sometimes
>>281881490tvtropes invented all the words. You shouldn't use any of them.
>>281879672Peak midwittery
>>281886182So what?Deconstruction isn't novelIt's a trope
>>281884066It doesShe can sing when she's full moon cause her 16 year old self doesn't have cancer
>>281886922It's actually pretty rare, and Japan almost never does it. Twists / subversion is more common.
>>281886345The Sailor Moon manga and even the first season of the anime deconstructed the genre before Madoka ever did.
>>281886747>muh tv tropes>muh descobsturctiok >dont use the word!!!!Deconstruction! Deconstruction! Deconstruction!Actually seriously Madoka Magica is actually not just a deconstruction of the magical genre but of the „deconstruction genre“ itself. It is the ultimate deconstruction, but by peeling away all layers of falsehood it revealed the genuine truth. Therefore it is actually the transcendent reconstruction of the entire ontological framework of structuralism and thereby overcomes postmodernism as a whole by Proof by contradiction.Who knew that if you went to the bottom of the abyss you would actually find the truth, huh? Well so much for that, suckers.Neither will you understand nor appreciate what I wrote here.But that is only because you err; for you know neither Madoka Magica, nor the power of God.
>>281886922Because if giant monsters causing a lot of death and destruction is already a commonly acknowledged aspect of giant monster stories, then the idea that you can "deconstruct" giant monsters by showing that they would actually cause death and destruction is just pretentious nonsense
>>281886345It's the opposite. Sailormoon fans claim there's a lot of suffering in their show too so Madoka can't be subverting that. This means it's subverting the non-mainstream that isn't Sailor Moon or Nanoha.
TVTropes is stupid and thinks any story with consequences is a deconstruction. They think Pokemon's first episode is a deconstruction.https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/PokemonS1E1PokemonIChooseYou>Deconstructed Character Archetype: Ash is one of Hot-Blooded Kid Heros frequently seen in Shonen Anime. The entire episode is basically one long Humiliation Conga dedicated to showing what would really happen to this character archetype if they were given free reign and no adult supervision. Simply put, Ash almost ends up being pecked to death by a horde of monster birds before the day is done. It isn't until Ash drops the protagonist act and is ready to all but sacrifice himself to save Pikachu do things finally start turning around him.>Deconstruction: Of being a Pokémon trainer. The episode explores what hardships a ten-year old trainer would face on their first day. Unlike the starter Pokémon in the games, Pikachu is hostile and disobedient to his new trainer, even showing a dislike of being in a Poké Ball. Ash, unable to get Pikachu's aid to catch Pokémon, had to resort using his clothes and rocks as a substitute, which fails miserably. His supplies, such as food, are also vulnerable to wild Pokémon such as Rattata. Then the episode demonstrates the true dangers of wild Pokémon in the form of an angry Spearow flock, which nearly killed both Ash and Pikachu. It borders on Unbuilt Trope since this was the first episode.
>>281887115Yeah but no we're getting into the weeds of. "Is any Story original?"Hell Romeo and Juliet is a Deconstruction. If you want to get that deep in the weeds.
>>281882779is it though? I feel like the term "deconstruction" was popularized and used by sites like TV Tropes and the communities on them, which are Reddit-ey to me.
>>281887147Why ON EARTH would you assume that suffering is the thing that makes Madoka a deconstruction.OH now I understand where the whole controversy comes from.You think that Madoka Magica is specially because there is suffering?Let me break this to you: the suffering that you see in sailor moon is already apparent and implied in episode 1.Before all the reveals.The deconstruction comes form things like the suffering being MEANINGLESS.Or that Sayaka is selfish, or that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, or that it is an elrdich lovecraftian horror story about humanity being kept as cattle. Or how about the fact that magical powers are acquired at the cost of one’s soul and magical girls are lich who aren’t really human anymore?That is all just scratching the surface.But does Sailor moon have any of those things?
>>281887078>Therefore it is actually the transcendent reconstruction of the entire ontological framework of structuralism and thereby overcomes postmodernism as a whole by Proof by contradiction.how to say nothing:
>>281887220But they're right. Ash is a fucking awful trainer in S1. He outright wins like 2 badges and gets beaten specifically because he is a bad trainer whose Pokémon didn't respect him.The rest of the Pokémon series is Ash overcoming his previous S1 failures.The retard was afraid of letting his Pokémon Evolve because of how unruly Charizard was. This is also why the Orange League is awesome.
>>281887220>yugioh gx>ctrl+f deconstruction>17 matchesbravo
>>281887389Just because you don’t understand the truth, even when it is spelled out for you doesn’t mean that the sentence is meaningless.
>>281887329Deconstruction was used long before TV Tropes. TV tropes was honestly one of the first places to push back on the overuse of the word. Though that was many years ago.
>>281887410>>281887220Pretty sure Shudo actually intended for the Pokémon anime to be a deconstruction based on his novelizations…Then TPC became a thing and Shudo left like mid-Johto.
>>281887506A deconstruction of what? Pokemon is the first anime millions of kids watched.
>>281887058>>281887115Deconstruction is just a twist for the purpose of highlighting an oft overlooked element It doesn't matter how frequent it happens.
>>281887531>A deconstruction of what?The games it’s based on and it’s absurd premise retard
>>281879626>evangelion is a deconstruction of mechaI'm not going to say it isn't, but I'm also going to say that everyone who says this hasn't really engaged with pre-Evangelion mecha. And I'm not talking about going real deep into it. I'm talking things like "watching mobile suit gundam" or watching any mazinger series from before Eva came out.
>>281887545Plenty of kids watched the anime before playing the games, retard. Plus, how is showing a main character in danger and struggling a deconstruction? That's not a deconstruction, that's just what a story about a kid going on adventures would naturally do. How many stories are there where a kid goes on an adventure with monsters, and there's no downside at all?
>>281887589>Plenty of kids watched the anime before playing the games, retard. Plus, how is showing a main character in danger and struggling a deconstruction?It was deconstructing the very WORLD of Pokémon, as seen within the games. Why would kids seeing the anime first make it any less of a deconstruction? The games were still the first ever Pokémon product and the anime adaptation came after and only got made because of the games becoming a success.
>>281883924>In other words a more humane slaughtering process for cattleThat's still true in the homuverse though.
>>281887733>Why would kids seeing the anime first make it any less of a deconstruction?Because nobody watching the anime came out of it thinking it turned their perception of the Pokemon games upside down. It's not a deconstruction.>but some of the gyms are either run down or run by abusive trainers>but sometimes Ash doesn't have enough money to get foodThat doesn't deconstruct shit. That's just what adaptations do to add conflict. Nobody was going to watch a Pokemon anime where the only conflict was how to beat an enemy Pokemon.
>>281879626The only people who say NGE is a deconstruction of mecha are people who have only watched NGE. That's not even a slight on NGE, I love it. But it's not a deconstruction in any sense of the word.
>>281887147>Sailormoon fans claim there’s a lot of suffering in their show too so Madoka can’t be subverting thatThe SM MANGA rather than the actual show moreso, only the 1st season of the 90’s anime really heads in a deconstructive direction, then it proceeds to play the genre completely straight for all subsequent seasons after.The first season of the 90’s anime starts out with the premise of Usagi wishing she had a magical, glamorous life like her superhero Sailor V, well she gets that but she soon finds that being a magical princess isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, and it ends up costing her the life of her friends and love interest, so she realizes she should’ve appreciated her normal, mundane life more and wishes at the end for time to turn back and that the year never happened so she and the Senshi could go back to being normal girls. Classic case of the “be careful what you wish for and appreciate what you have” concept.
>>281887533A twist is taking a common trope and changing it up in order to explore the narrative implications which arise from it. For example: what if the weakest skill in isekai was actually the weakest skill? A deconstruction is taking the tropes and playing them straight except through a different narrative lens: ie, what if the isekai harem girls act like real women? The trope is unchanged, the only difference is that instead of using the normal narrative viewpoint of the harem members being sex toys, they are being treated like real women. What would real women think and do in that scenario? How do they sublimate their life goals and desires into a harem situation? How do they navigate this difficult social situation? That is a deconstruction.
>>281887972>but some of the gyms are either run down or run by abusive trainers>but sometimes Ash doesn't have enough money to get foodMore like trying to become a Pokémon Master is a dead end job and dream which turned Ash’s dad into a deadbeat bum and now Ash is simply following in those losing footsteps.The games meanwhile are piss-easy and play you, the player, up as hot shit that is always guaranteed to beat the Elite 4 and “Be the very best, like no one ever was.”
>>281882249Sailor Moon IS a toy commercial, and it's also the deepest thing in the genre with the most human writing and widest scope overall. Princess Tutu spends big portions of its runtime engaging in random shenanigans and being about chasing magical McGuffins that directly control characters' emotions, as opposed to actually writing a scenario where the characters develop those emotions for any natural reasons. In that regards it's honestly more toysloppish than the big Toei shows despite technically being less commercial about it.
>>281888765>Sailor Moon IS a toy commercial, and it's also the deepest thing in the genre with the most human writing and widest scope overall.Nah, that’s CCS.Sailor Moon only (barely) manages to have those elements thanks to being lucky enough to have the toppest of the industry working on it like Ikuhara and Sato, take them away and it would just be another soulless Precure.
>>2818879061. We don’t know that2. Maybe but that by itself is not what is the problem. The problem is that this is all that is amounts to.Homura is still in charge and can also put down the Kyubey as a whole. At the end you may still die, that is a reality even in our life. But there is a difference between dying as cattle and dying as a free man.Also I don’t see Homura letting Madoka die at all, the laws of reality are laughable against such force as love, therefore the conclusion that it leaves us with is:„To a tomorrow no one knows.“
>>281889039So basically>We don't know that it's the same so i will assume it's betterThe only difference we know of is that now it's Kyubey that takes in all the suffering. But in Madoka's world, suffering was reincarnated as wraiths. So i guess that means magical girls have no enemy to fight in Homura's world? Except she does mention wraiths still existing somehow (but also implies they do in a finite number which is weird).
>>281888502Deconstruction is when stories are well-written and "realistic"?
>>281879626Madoka is absolutely not a deconstruction because it changes the rules of a standard mahou shoujo premise. It would be a deconstruction without witchification. A deconstruction is taking what's considered normal and re-examining it from a more serious or grounded perspective, 'deconstructing' the overused cliches. Instead Madoka staples another set of grimdark cliches on top of something else. If it were just teenage girls going mad with power it would be. Instead it's Urobuchi writing "what if the monsters were people" for the 10th time.
deconstructions aren't a real thing in mediait's obvious when people can't even agree on a definition or which works countit's literally always just been a nothing word used to posture
Evangelion is absolutely a deconstruction im sick, of "but le gundam arguments" when gundam dosen't even go that much into the psychological.It just shows how many haven't seen gundam.
>>281889170Homura’s world is different from the Madokami world.Homura did not rewrite the multiverse affecting all timelines, but she created a single „true“ reality where Kyubey is no longer in charge but instead Homura is sitting on the throne.Therefore the wreights that are still there will be cleaned up. And after that Homura herself will fight the magical girls as „the enemy“ so that balance is upheld.If you have seen gushing over magical girls, it’s probably in a similar way as how Utena fights the tres magia in a semi serious way, basically making the fantasy of magical girls true by playing the foil.Also probably curses do no longer kill people because they are on Kyubey.And also the universe will probably die the heatdeath now eventually, or Homura will just create stars herself, because the way she is now it is plausible that she can just produce energy ex nihilo.Though we do not know what will happen in the sequel.>>281889451The problem is not that monsters were people, the problem is that you are already the monster.
>>281879822>subvert expectations is deconstructionReally show how westoid anime fags are a bunch of pretendous failed university students.
>>281889413Viewing tropes through a realistic lens and discarding the common assumptions is a very common form of deconstruction. But you can also do deconstruction by adding the absurdity filter to the narrative. For example, what if all the romcom women just wanted to be sex toys in a harem? How do they deal with the pain of constantly being pushed away from their owner? Does the MC notice the abnormal behavior of these women and how does he process it? The women have to be in competition with one another but don’t understand WHY that is when all they want to do is be friends with their fellow toys. How do they express their stress in this situation?
>>281881897>the story focus is much more on the characters internal and interpersonal conflicts than the robots themselvesThere are no mecha series that are purely about the robots. They all have characters and show the interpersonal conflicts between the characters. This is yet another thing people who have never watched another mecha anime say.
>>281881710Thats a lot of words just to say "I can do the author's work better".And is not new. Westoid anime community has been living like that for ages.
>>281889585>If you have seen gushing over magical girls, it’s probably in a similar way as how Utena fights the tres magia in a semi serious way, basically making the fantasy of magical girls true by playing the foilI don't think so. Homulily seems serious, and in fact it looks like the main magical girl she will be fighting will be Homura herself. It's not like Utena at all as Utena just lets Tres Magia win every time. Homulily probably wants to take control over reality herself, and quite possibly kidnap Madoka in some way. Homura also wants to predominate over Homulily of course, but probably seeks the greater good or at least Madoka's own good.Witches in Madoka were always pictured as genuinely evil. Yes, they have their own motivations that they believe justify their behavior, but that doesn't make their actions any less inherently evil and harmful. I don't see why Homulily would be any different.
>>281889550It’s real but it’s not commonplace, leading to a situation where fans often attempt to expand the definition to bring in more media, ie, Anti-Villains.
>Gushing Ove Magical Girls>DeconstructionReeks of tourists here
>>281881995Being aimed at a younger audience doesn't mean something can never tackle mature themes. And why does tackling more mature themes need a special term for it? It just comes off as people wanting to distance themselves from the vast majority of the content of the genre they're watching, which shows an inherent contempt for it. Also, are you saying this as someone who has seen a lot of magical girl anime, or is this just your assumption because you watched Madoka and was told it was different?
>>281889902Yeah, it's more like a parody.
>hurr look at my video essay screenshot as I instigate a flamewar between two popular franchises>162 repliesGood thing to know this board never changes
>>281889960Unfortunately for op literally 0 post itt is about madoka vs eva flame war faggotry kek.
Not even a parodyIs just a horny anime about a timid girl unleashing her BDSM fantasies on her idols as an advantage of being the villianIt does not mean to leave a chiefly commentary on magical girls' nature.Just to laugh and fap.
>>281882140Monogatari is another series that people seem to fundamentally misunderstand. I can't count the number of times I've heard people refer to it as a "pretentious harem" when it has so much more going for it. Calling Monogatari a deconstruction is a reduction of its quality imo. And using the term overall is a reduction and ultimately results, ironically, in people not engaging as much as they pretend to with a piece of media. Just label something with this vague term nobody can agree on and move on to something else. I like Eva, Madoka, and Monogatari, but you don't have to think a series is special and the only good thing in a genre, which points out its flaws, to enjoy something. If anything, watching anime in that way is the mark of someone who hates it, and not the boogeyman you're bringing up.
>>281889562>gundam dosen't even go that much into the psychologicalThis has to be bait. You can't be this fucking stupid.
>>281889960It's not even a flamewar, it's just people disagreeing on what constitutes a deconstruction. And also a lot of people pretending they've watched more anime than they actually have.
>>281889878nah, they don't existThe whole idea of a genre deconstruction only makes sense if you assume that a genre is simplistic and/or lacking in self-examination. After all, you cannot expose the hidden assumptions and contradictions and such of a genre unless the genre is so stale and formulaic that pretty much every story does the exact same thing without any kind of introspection about its own premise.
>>281890042It clearly parodies the magical girl genre though. A parody doesn't have to be a commentary or something like a deconstruction. It's just "thing but played ungenuinely and generally for comedic purpose".
>>281890017yeah he must feel so sad about having a thread that will reach 200 replies easy
>>281890042>Just to laugh and fap.The tourist mentality is if they like something is because it has d33p meaning and shit.The mentality fueled by 00' anitubers for years and cooked on the endless EVA analysis videos.
>>281888905>Nah, that’s CCS.That's honestly delusional. CSS frankly has some of the weakest character writing in the genre. It's dangerously close to being moeshit where the characters are blobs that react emotionally to whatever is happening while having very simple internal drives. It has episodes than hint at deeper ideas, but they're mostly suggestions that don't delve seriously into such subject matter.>Sailor Moon only (barely) manages to have those elements thanks to being lucky enough to have the toppest of the industry working on it like Ikuhara and SatoYou're right, but that doesn't make it not good. Sailor Moon exists essentially because the blokes at Toei wanted to make this thing and basically proposed to hijack Naoko's project after the plans for a Sailor V anime failed.>take them away and it would just be another soulless Precure.Precure basically works out similarly, the best seasons have top industry talent working on them and making them good, so while it's even more shamelessly commercial compared to SM, its ignorant to simply write it all off as soulless, even if the franchise as a concept and in a general sense is to an incredible degree.
Now you are pulling the same whit tourists pulled with the word "deconstruction" to make your post not valid but the correct one.
Child pilots getting PTSD is an established trope of the mecha genre.
>>281889960It's unbelievable how lazy the mods are here.
>>281890052Monogatari is literally just a romcom harem. There are no twists or deconstructions at all. What makes it different is the narrative direction which goes more heavily into dark themes than usual and the characters which are more complex than the JP standard. The only break with JP harem romcoms is that the main couple is official since the first arc, whereas normally the main couple are separated until the end. JP doesn’t do actual harems, all JP shounen romances are mono romances no matter how many women are in the cast. In Monogatari’s case I believe it was only because the author didn’t know he’d be continuing the LN and turning it into a harem.
>>281890343Monogatari is literally an experimental project to create a cohesive and connected narrative encompassing the entire Lacanian mythology and logic from "le corps morcele" to "death drive", but using otaku cultural tropes.
>>281879626Evangelion is a retelling of Tom & Jerry from Tom's perspective. No matter how hard the Evangelions try to stamp out the angels, the angels keep striking back with new off-the-wall attacks until the pilots are driven to screaming lunacy.
>>281890694>is literally an experimental project to create a cohesive and connected narrative encompassing the entire Lacanian mythology and logic from "le corps morcele" to "death drive"wow, how does it do that?
>>281890724The last time I answered this question, it required a 35k character essay.
>>281890694>to create a cohesive and connected narrative Boogiepop Phantom did that YEARS before Bake aired>encompassing the entire Lacanian mythology and logic from "le corps morcele" to "death drive", but using otaku cultural tropesTo view Monogatari with westoid eyes despite its main characteristic is to be poluted with Japanese folklore is anituber mentality.
>>281888502>what if the weakest skill in isekai was actually the weakest skillthat's the normal trope>the harem members being sex toysnvm a reddit feminist wrote this
>>281890987>cohesive and connected narrative>Boogiepop Phantom did that beforeI think this was done for the first time a little earlier than Boogiepop. About 3,000 years earlier>o view Monogatari with westoid eyes despiteYou're right, because Japan is a closed country that has escaped any Western influence, a land of fox spirits and samurai.
>>281889960Nobody with decent powerlevel is sitting on /a/ anymore. It's all tourists who've seen 500 anime in total and think their opinion matters.
>>281891224A girl losing any human weight by an attack of a crab is not something popular nor born on westoid culture.Westoid shit are Ghibli films
Funny how "deconstruction" is only used by pseuds for stuff that is uncool to like (anime, VNs).Nobody is saying something like "Big Lebowski is a deconstruction of chandler-esque pulp noir" because movies are normalfag-approved pastime.It's all so tiresome.
>>281891412Mental problems, manifested by a bodily symptom, are the very foundation of Lacanianism. "The unconscious is structured like a language" is one of his main formulas. And the symptom goes away when the experience repressed in the unconscious returns to the symbolic register through speech. The ritual in the second episode is a simple psychoanalytic session disguised as an exorcism.
>>281891110>weakest skillTHe normal trope is that the weakest skill is actually the strongest skill. A twist to that trope is the weakest skill in fact being the weakest. See The Sorcerer Can't be the Hero for an example of this twist.>HaremThe harem trope is giving the MC a harem of women who love the MC with no other significant personality or psychological feature, so sex toy for short. What if the harem members not only loved the MC, but had a normal human (and other fantasy race's) psychological makeup as well?
>>281881897>Evangelion mechas and their enemies were actually giant biological beings instead of robots making it closer to the kaiju genre than mechaThis is just aesthetics. Ideon is literally the mingling collectivized souls of an entire spacefaring civilization housed in a metal cage. Dunbine's Aura Battlers are biomechanical. Both of these shows had all the interpersonal melodrama that Evangelion did and then some.>the story focus is much more on the characters internal and interpersonal conflicts than the robots themselves as well so much that most of the merch is of the characters not the robots. Also Evangelion changed the industry, it broke the mold and influenced strongly anime after it.Gundam already did this. The original also basically created modern fujoshi culture with Char. And Zeta and CCA, all of which preceded Evangelion, built upon it. Evangelion did, however, arguably get more boys into collecting anime girl merch.
>>281889836Homura is not a witch though, this is all a theory that has no substantial backing.
>>281891713She is neither a witch nor a magical girl, she transcended that.Homulily factually existed in Rebellion even if she was contained.It's clear the multiple Homura are there to represent Homura's internal fight as to who will predominate between Homura and Homulily.
>>281891321How do you even define powerlevel. I have stopped counting how many anime I have seen. At this point I have seen everything that I wanted to see and have a clear backlog. What should I do to increase my powerlevel, wise one?To be fair I actually rarely still go on /a/ because it has become so shitty
>>281891645On your westoid point of viewAsian mythology and folklore is older than Lacanian philosophy also>>281891645>>281891647>>281891694>>281891713>less than 1 minute apart>>281891438After more than 8 minutesLame discord raid?
>>281882140>Autistic troons just can not stand their "obscure underrated masterpieces" being exposed as toy commercials for little children, so they deny the very idea that it is possible to expose those via critical analysis.Evangelion is a toy commercial too.
>>281891825Of course the mentally ill eva troon is schizo too
>/a/ is me and my eva essayist boyfriends
>>281891825>Asian mythology and folkloreThere is no Japanese myth about a crab stealing traumatic memories along with physical weight.
Did nigga really got triggered at the idea of an anime not housing western shit on its story?
>>281888502>A deconstruction is taking the tropes and playing them straight except through a different narrative lens:No it isn't
>Famous Japanese Vampire myths and folklore
>The average deconstruction fan mentality
>>281882140>Bakemonogatari is also a very popular series that deconstructs the harem genreThis is a funny case where Westerners can tell it's commentary on a specific genre, but can't really pinpoint what.It's a "deconstruction" of a specific breed of post-Boogiepop urban fantasy stories that were popular in the early 00s (Shakugan no Shana or Tsukihime are probably the most well-known ones in the west, off the top of my head). The "deconstructive" aspect is that the genre is supposed to be a self-insert power fantasy, but Araragi is actually just an edgy teenager who has no idea how to help anyone and every attempt he makes at doing something cool just makes the situation worse. Ultimately, he only becomes a useful protagonist once he drops the power fantasy aspect and starts helping in more mundane ways.
>ctrl + f>Westoid>8 results Lol, he mad
>>281891776Lol, I haven’t even considered this possibility because it goes so starkly against all the extra material.Here is the thing, if you read the character card then you see that homulilys nature is „self sufficiency“ which culminates in rebellion with the funeral procession.However when the scene ends the Guillotine is broken, so Homura realizes that she is not self sufficient but that she is dependent on Madoka.Therefor the witch form does not symbolize the kind of attachment that would cause this conflict.Instead I think the other Homura’s are full personas of her familiar dolls, like jealousy, or wrath or pride.Which represent all the sins of her heart, and the familiar Ai which is love.
>>281892082>It has vampires>SEEEE IS TOTALLY WESTERN!And Hanekawa falls on?
Egyptians were no asiansSo I win!
>>281892168The only one who tried to claim totality (totally Japanese) it's you. I'm just talking about one of the plans.
>encompassing the entire Lacanian mythology and logic from "le corps morcele" to "death drive", but using otaku cultural tropes.>encompassing the entire Lacanian mythology>entire Lacanian mythology
>>281892148I think the red eyed one specifically is Homulily or at the very least she clearly seems to be the main antagonist of the movie. It would just make sense for her to be Homulily in that case. Especially since the title implies she will become Walpurgisnacht, if we are to assume Walpurgisnacht is an incarnation of Homulily. Not sure how that would work with the show though.
>>281892114Are you implying the Japanese don’t have a literary concept of deconstruction and it’s purely a Western thing?
>>281892353JOP otaku do not use the word deconstruction so loosely like westoids do.I have seen them use it on Kakegurui as a deconstruction of a capitalist society than on EVA and mf Madoka like they do on this side of the ocean.
>>281892353The West also did not have this concept until it was formulated.
Bocchi The Rock is a deconstruction of K-on!
>>281892441Did the Japanese kiss before they borrowed the word "kiss"?
>>281892631The kissed before they knew the word kiss existed
>>281890268>CCS>weak character writing>MoeshitIt’s some of the most grounded and down-to-earth character writing in the genre you fucking pleb, the exact total opposite of moeshit, despite what the pedos flocking to it would have you believe. The franchise was never made for them anyways.>Tomoyo>simple internal driveYou’re either a tourist who’s only watched like 10 episodes or have stunningly bad media literacy
JJK is a deconstruction of HunterxHunter
>>281879672Guess this thread has proven it well.fpbp it is.
>>281879626Evangelion isn’t a deconstruction in any definition of the term, even the low IQ reddit one. It plays the mecha so genre so unbelievably faithfully that it’s actually almost a complete ripoff. Same with Gurren Lagann and Gunbuster.
>>281892666What if they deconstruct without even knowing the concept of deconstruction?
>ITT autistic manchildren trying to argue that Kodomo toy commercial anime like Pokémon and Sailor Moon were unironically attempting to be deconstructionsThe absolute state of /a/…
>>281892913How could this interfere with toy sales?
>>281891647>THe normal trope is that the weakest skill is actually the strongest skill.At one point, someone must've thought it was a clever twist to make a weak skill strong. Now it's commonplace. "The weak skill is actually strong." To twist it, that's a twist twist/the subversion of a subversion.>The harem trope is giving the MC a harem of women who love the MC with no other significant personality or psychological feature, so sex toy for short. What if the harem members not only loved the MC, but had a normal human (and other fantasy race's) psychological makeup as well?Even a harem needs the framing that a woman spontaneously likes MC, and MC may be oblivious or opt out or choose one girl, etc. Though in the case that it does not qualify one's standards of realism and lens of psychology, you have eva with its rei & asuka ''deconstruction''.
>>281892811Gunbuster is literally a parody of a tennis anime.
>>281893013>parodyRipoffMost of the mecha content is lifted from Getter Robo
>>281893047It's literally a fucking parody. Even the Japanese, "Aim for the Top!" makes it super clear the whole joke is that it's Aim for the Ace with mechas instead of tennis.
>>281891438You're exactly right. They can't allow themselves to sincerely enjoy something they think is cringe or they think society thinks is cringe. So they have to filter their opinions through some retarded ironic filter. "X doesn't count because X is ACKSHUALLY a deconstruction of the genre!" This pleases nobody, of course. People who sincerely enjoy that thing and the genre it belongs to know enough about it to know that it's not a deconstruction at all. And people who think it's cringe won't care what cope they're spouting because they're still watching/playing/etc. it and it's cringe. And the person coping still isn't happy because they're still not sincerely engaging with it. It's gotta be the most retarded form of self-hatred. They just can't let themselves enjoy things they like.
>>281892607I mean, yeah, it basically is, and it's honestly pretty good at being that. The only unrealistic thing about it is that Bocchi herself is too conventionally attractive, a girl as scared of interaction as her would in all likelyhood be a chubby one who gets teased about that, but otherwise it's way better about portraying that kind of character and how they act than most anime that try to portray 'shy girls'.
>>281893108It’s not a parody. It’s not played as a joke. It’s a straight up bold faced ripoff. Just because they’re open about it doesn’t make it a parody; it’s played completely straight. Retard faggot.
>>281893108Gunbuster starts out as a parody but it pivots into its own thing very quickly after the first episode. It's more of a love letter than anything That phrase gets overused, but I think it's one of the few pieces of media to fit the label. It's obviously playing around with genre tropes, but it's doing so in an incredibly genuine and not at all mean-spirited way. It's pretty much saying "Yeah all these anime tropes are crazy and kinda stupid but that's why we like it! It's fun, so we're just gonna turn it up to 11 and you're STILL gonna cry at the end because it's just that good." That guy saying it's a Getter Robo ripoff is completely retarded. Seriously, stop arguing with him. Not worth the trouble.
>>281892906The west would not notice
Never listen to evangelion fans
>>281892913>Sailor Moon were unironically attempting to be deconstructionsYou're missing the fucking point. It doesn't matter if they're 'subversive deconstructions' or not or whatever, it's just that Madoka and shit like it isn't inherently superior for being more focused on portraying a world of inherent suffering over a world where the characters get unironic SoL episodes, because it being like that doesn't prevent Sailor Moon et al from having quality writing, characterization, handling of themes, direction, drama, complex morality etc. which it can hardly be said to lack compared to the so called deconstruction series.Like, do you have any idea the extent to which this actual fucking site was founded by people who loved this series? And you're acting like this is some degeneration from some pure state of faggots you imagine preferred shit you consider great instead? The absolute state of the eternal newfag you are.
After musing about OP's question for some time, I'd like to propose a new definition: A series that uses a well known power fantasy plot setup, but subverts expectations by leaving the characters powerless and miserable.Shinji had no real agency in his role as the 'hero'. The Meguca were part of a pyramid scene that inevitably ends with them dying. Princess Tutu was literally at the mercy of the story's author. Araragi has neither the knowledge or mindset to actually fix anything, so he only makes shit worse over and over while everyone else actually cleans up the messes.
>>281893381You’re replying to yourself.
>>281893143>You're exactly right. They can't allow themselves to sincerely enjoy something they think is cringe or they think society thinks is cringe. So they have to filter their opinions through some retarded ironic filter. "X doesn't count because X is ACKSHUALLY a deconstruction of the genre!"Why would anyone over the age of 10 or non-autists unironically enjoy simplistic shit for children?
>>281893665Cold reads like this only make you look foolish when they're wrong.
>>281893653That's actually a pretty fair characterization of what 'deconstructions' effectively are in practice. It also explains in part why I tend to not like them that much or prefer them over the thing being 'deconstructed', as the regular thing tends to be more about characters acting with actual agency in the context of a scenario where they can genuinely make a difference, for good or bad.
>That's just what adaptations do to add conflict. Nobody was going to watch a Pokemon anime where the only conflict was how to beat an enemy Pokemon.nu-Pokemon plays it really safe. It's almost like watching the game with no conflict. I said it. S1 Pokemon is a deconstruction of nu-Pokemon(late Ashnime).
>>281887431Oh, I know Jacques Derrida coined the term and concept of deconstruction. But even then, I heavily associate that term with TV Tropes (unfortunately).
>>281893653>After musing about OP's question for some time, I'd like to propose a new definition: A series that uses a well known power fantasy plot setup, but subverts expectations by leaving the characters powerless and miserable.That’s basically exactly what a deconstruction is anon, only even more grimdark and edgy since it doesn’t offer the characters at least some semblance of hope at the end.
>>281893653Sword Art Online is a deconstruction
>>281892460"Deconstruction" as a literary CRITIQUE is fairly modern.But deconstruction as an approach to storytelling is as old as storytelling itself Most people don't use the literature criticism version of the word
>>281894166Deconstruction being defined as a genre subversion is just a recent redditism by midwits
>>281883229Philosophical deconstruction is about embracing those contradictions as inevitable and necessary.
>>281893653>A series that uses a well known power fantasy plot setup, but subverts expectations by leaving the characters powerless and miserable.Ojamajo Doremi is a deconstruction I guess.
>>281893702Why can you only bring yourself to like ironic series that call everything a genre does stupid?
>>281894397Deconstruction is used in art (cubism) and food.It simply means separating and rearranging elements.Deconstructionism is a literary critique specific to analyzing the elements in a contrasting way.Someone in this thread keeps pushing the critical definition as the narrative definition and it's not the same Probably why he's so mad
>>281893702I dunno. Do fun things die if they eat dog food?
>>281894522No.
>>281879626Deconstructions ostensibly require novelty. But neither series actually said new things about either genre. >it would fucking suck to actually be one of these classic action anime heroes Was already done before either was made.
>>281894484Ojamajo Doremi is fucking great.>>281894566Yes. Yui said so.
“Being a mecha pilot is really shitty and like being a child soldier” and “morally questionable adults force kids to pilot ghe robot and sacrifices people” were literally cliches 20 years before Eva
>>281881897>he story focus is much more on the characters internal and interpersonal conflicts than the robots themselves as well so much that most of the merch is of the characters not the robotsPatlabor feels sad you forgot her.
>>281894731>”Being a mecha pilot is really shitty and like being a child soldier” This was also explored with Magical Girls as well.
I liked Under the Scope reviews until he started adding politics to his videos. muh Monogatari is great BUT the lolis are icky. muh Heaven's Feel is great BECAUSE Rin saves Sakura and not Shirou (men saving women is le bad). The woke era really ruined review channels, even the ones that didn't become trannies
>>281879626It can be because deconstruction is the deconstruction itself. It doesn't have a definition. It's the impossible. It's 1 and 0
>>281879626Deconstruction is when I like something from a genre I disrespect
>>281896369And only when you haven't seen anything else from the genre and your disrespect is based entirely on headcanon from hearing bits and pieces over the years.
>>281896369>Deconstruction is when I like something from a genre I disrespectDoes a purely unrealistic, wish-fulfillment and saccharine genre written for babies deserve to be respected though?
>>281896448see>>281896412
>>281880480> people that never watched the shows that influenced anno when he made eva still call eva a deconstructionThey dont, its a buzzword to get clicks from your retarded subscribers.The first time i heard that word used describing anime was when madoka was airing and i still think it should be filtered here.
>>281881710If a word has lost all meaning we should do our best to retire it and come up with more elegant ways to describe the matter unless you are ready to provide a huge preface with definitions each time you discuss the topic just so you can be semantically understood.
>>281893653>>281893793>>281893916this is exactly why I think the term deconstruction is such a stupid one nothing is getting deconstructed at all, it's just a cover for insecure pseuds to posture about shit concerning genres they have zero knowledge aboutdeconstructions as a media concept is fucking inane and useless as a category and term because of how meaningless it actually isthere really needs to be a new term for these. I've always been of the opinion that most of these shows could just be called dark subversions or whatever
>>281896715yeah if anything the term is not only useless but actively harmful what with the connotations it comes withI mentioned it here >>281882243 but it basically perpetuates the retarded notion that before the supposed deconstruction came about the genre was somehow stagnant, uninteresting, "childish" or whatever other prejudices one could come up with. Pseuds who use the term are basically putting down the rest of a genre they don't even watch just to mask their fear of sincerity and inability to like something for what it is.Then even dumber newfags come along and parrot their retarded ideas in one long chain of ass to mouth
>>281881897>Evangelion mechas and their enemies were actually giant biological beings instead of robotsNot new>focus is much more on the characters internal and interpersonal conflicts than the robots themselvesget a load of this fag>Evangelion changed the industry, it broke the mold and influenced strongly anime after it.Not because of its subversive qualities but moreso because of its three lead female characters and the attractive wish fulfillment fantasy of being involved with such girls and having the wielding the power to change the world, all of which arent unique to Eva, the show merely synthesized these elements in a way that was uniquely well done and appealing and expressed the Zeitgeist of its age in just the right way.
>>281882140I dont throw around "midwit" or "dunning kruger" lightly but damn does your post fit the bill.
>>281881897>the story focus is much more on the characters internalOh fuck you.
Even today, "unlike other mecha, this one is about the characters" still haunts us.
do deconstructionfags just not watch anime or something?
>>281889562I guess seeing Gundam is only half the battle when youre too retarded to understand the psychology of the characters without dedicated long contemplative scenes of pondering so you can see what theyre thinking instead of reading between the lines
>>281896848>fear of sinceritysincerity is cringe though if it’s played in an entirely unrealistic and childish manner that expects one to check their suspension of disbelief at the door.
Hell it's not like gundam itself was the first scifi show to "delve into character's psychology" or whateverIt's exceedingly obvious you 20-30 year olds on here have never actually sat down and read a Tezuka manga, and probably assume Atom just flew around shooting bad guys and whatever like he was Chargeman Ken
>>281896448watch more anime then come back>>281897476you're cringe
>>281897476I think you need to graduate middle school before posting on hereImagine being so insecure you give that much of a shit about what other people think about the stuff you supposedly like
>>281881897>the story focus is much more on the characters internal and interpersonal conflicts than the robots themselves as well so much that most of the merch is of the characters not the robots.You don't know about giant robots, shut-up.
>>281898163>Imagine being so insecure you give that much of a shit about what other people think about the stuff you supposedly likeThat’s all normalfags though
>>281897476I sure hope you're underage or something because you sound like a kid trying to pass as one of the cool guys.>>281897513Indeed, most people are ignorant on how Tezuka's manga marked a before and after for the whole industry thanks to his more complex characters with their personal dilemmas that came from their own powers and stuff.
isn't metal gear solid unintentionally a deconstruction of the mecha genre? it's literally anti mecha
>>281881404/m/ likes to argue by way of dragging the other poster into unfamiliar ground (how many people on /a/ have really seen 5 80's robot anime? How about 3 70's robot anime?) but there's a fundamental problem with /m/'s typical wheelhouse:They grossly misrepresent the individual works and the genre taken as a whole that they're familiar with, knowing the other posters' unfamiliarity makes it difficult for them to call out bullshit. In both of these /m/ is being reductive. The prior art they cite are largely false equivalents, again usually exploiting people's unfamiliarity with older works they make straw man versions of the old show's tropes to paint them as 1:1 with something Eva did 10 years later.
>>281899365The point people are trying to make isn't that Eva is somehow derivative as all hell and didn't do anything new or unique, the point people are trying to put forward is specifically the refutation of the retarded notion that deconstruction fags have about the genres these shows belong to.After all, deconstructions the way these fags use it can only work if they assume previous iterations in the genre literally never had or touched on the themes supposedly getting deconstructed. see >>281890129
>>281899205You might as well say Godzilla is a deconstruction of mecha then since they have to destroy mecha Godzilla. >>281899365Hm, maybe the people they're arguing with should know what the fuck they're talking about.>It's not fair that you've watched a lot of mecha and I haven't. That lets you argue against me without me being able to reply.Admitting your ignorance to try and discredit any arguments is generally not something you want to do if you're trying to make a point. A large part of the reason people hate the term deconstruction is that it's specifically thrown around by people who don't have much experience with the genre. If you haven't seen 3 70s mecha series or 5 80s mecha series then what the fuck are you doing trying to make arguments about what the genre is supposed to be and how this mecha anime you watched in the 90s/00s/10s is totally a deconstruction and subversion of all those childish mecha series from the 70s and 80s?
>>281882140I think your idea holds some water but you've got a young man's bias about what autism looks like. Is the 40 year old toy commercial enjoyer an autist? Maybe but he certainly isn't of the troon's variety. >>281892131>WesternersIt's not just westerners because I tend to agree with the subset of Japanese pop culture view that thinks of "sekai-kei" as such a wide phenomenon that it's almost a meaningless word. And if Bakemonogatari is subverting sekai-kei certainly /a/ in 2009 had fucking plenty of that under their belt to understand the subversion.
>>281879626>YouTube essayists combing this thread for their next topic
>>281879626>>madoka isn't akschually a deconstruction because le derridawtfmadoka is not a deconstruction because the series is derivative from the sailor moon manga which is the cornerstone of magical girl stuff
>>281886182I don't think 54 is really representative of the genre it spawned.I mean I've seen literally every Showa Godzilla film and I wouldn't call 54 representative of even the franchise that bears his name much less what early tv toku looked like.
>>281892913Sailor Moon anime ≠ Sailor Moon mangaif anything the anime are the deconstructions because they are barebones in comparison to the source material just for the sake of seeking toy salesguys like ikuhara and the like saved tv anime from being western-like toy commercials by putting characterization in the front. this is how we ended up with shows, like NGE, that didn't aim to sell toys of the robots.
>>281899876>this is how we ended up with shows, like NGE, that didn't aim to sell toys of the robots.this tripfag can't be serious
>>281899488You have an IQ of around room temperature if you read my post and couldn't work out the baby level abstractions of what constitutes me, /a/ posters, and /m/ posters in my narrative. But it is making me reevaluate my read of /m/ as liars hoping to exploit other people's ignorance by misrepresenting old shows. I guess I had it all wrong and you're actually just fucking morons who can't work out how they're misreading old shows in the first place.
>>281900226>you're misrepresenting older series>No, I haven't seen them, and so I can't call you a liar in good faith, but I know you're lying!>There's no way an anime from the 70s is as sophisticated as Evangelion!I don't care who you're saying is who. You're arguing for people with zero knowledge making claims about things they don't understand, to the point where they can't even argue back against people you claim are lying. And the fact that you listed 3 70s mecha anime and 5 80s mecha anime as some unachievable standard for people who want to make sweeping claims about the mecha genre, your attempt to insult me really doesn't hold any weight.
>>281899876>guys like ikuhara and the like saved tv anime from being western-like toy commercials by putting characterization in the frontWhy are people so confidently retarded about shit they know nothing about?
>>281881710But the people using it do actually believe that „it broke with the formula for once“.Denying that that is the definition is like saying that the definition of stick should be expanded to include stick-bugs, because a lot of people saw a stick-bug at some point and called it a stick, even though the reason they called it a stick is because they actually believed it to be a stick.
>thinking a people philosophically stuck in feudal times are capable of creating fiction with any depth
>>281901393Western philosophy is nothing but a game of semantics. It is literally all word games to disguise the lack of any actual insight into anything.
>>281901472>filtered by distinctions
>>281899930it didn't AIMthere's a difference between an anime that sells toys on the side (Eva) and a toy line that makes anime on the side (Gundam)
>>281901935So not only is Eva totally different from those past baby mecha anime but it even deconstructed merchandising by, sure, being a vehicle for selling shit (not just toys), but doing it IRONICALLY and not being all about selling stuff (like the aforementioned shitty old mecha anime).
>>281902028Eva used its McDonald's commercial to comment on the deep suffering of the human condition.
>>281879821Utena
>>281897253they have to lest they want something to deconstruct about
if anything Madoka is a REconstruction because it examines the presumptions, assumptions and contradictions of its genre played with realistic consequences but then reifies those observations in a way that reaffirms its genre constructs and ideals
>>281903461Exactly what presumptions, assumptions or contradictions of the genre does it examine and how exactly are these consequences more realistic? Exactly what genre constructs and ideals does it reaffirm?
>>281900226When I see anons posting blatant untruths, even in the same thread in which those untruths were exposed, I just assume that they're low IQ. I believe that, to a low IQ, they can't actually track a complex debate and so just try to deny whatever what posted last. They're not actually lying, it just seems that way to a higher IQ who is able to track the debate.
>>281893653dark cynicism is not a requirement. see: Konosuba
>>281903591exploitation (contract), corruption (becoming witch) and trauma (hero's burden) of the genre's idealism is overcome with Madoka's wish to reify the magical girl construct with her self-sacrifice based in compassion and hope, rebuilding it instead of destroying it
>>281882969>on a really old gritty mangaIt was bog standard kids manga of the era outside of the twist ending
>>281903772Madoka’s wish is then however again deconstructed in rebellion and actually secretly already implicitly in the OG, if you look closely.However rebellion is again another reconstruction because Homura and not Madoka is actually the true magical girl.The ending of rebellion is literally: a magical girl saves her friend with the power of love.Except that looks completely different then people expect.Except actually our society is wrong about what love even is and has exchanged it for a false image, and Madoka Magica accidentally stumbles upon the ancient true definition of true love, which is Agape. Therefore Madoka Magica does not just reconstruct a genre but the concept of love itself.Not bad for a magical girl anime, if I say so myself.
>>281899543Bakemonogatari is not sekai kei.The sekai kei genre is probably the single most codified genre in existence, it’s the haiku of anime. Bakemonogatari is not sekai kei because it lacks both the world and the relationship. All it has that even remotely resembles sekai kei is that it has a society.
>>281902048and it worked
>>281891110Only mentally ill subhumans like harem shit.
>>281894166>deconstruction as an approach to storytelling is as old as storytelling itselfThis is certainly not true.>"Deconstruction" as a literary CRITIQUE"Deconstruction is not an analysis, not a method, or a critique"
>>281879626magical girls are inherently stupid. the entire concept is faggot-ridden.
>>281880954Based, this is the only true post in this thread.
>>281906093>please, think of the fictional girls!begone, redditor
>>281906430>I hate a genre>That's why I'll watch and praise something that's a part of the genre as long as it calls the genre stupidWhy not just avoid something you don't like?
>>281906495>anything i don't like is reddit!!Irony. Considering you're the one who actually uses reddit here.And it has nothing to do with "fictional girls". It has to do with you and the quality of person you are.
>>281906552It's not a deep genre, it's as good as mcu or zombie flicks, those are bad flicks.But disliking it for moral reasons is so stupid, it's equivalent to being a redditor or westoid.
>>281906699There's nothing inherently wrong mcu or zombie flicks.There is something inherently wrong with polygamy, and supporting it, even in fiction, speaks the quality of person you are, and how you are a drain on society.
>>281899543Sekai-kei is post-Evangelion stuff. The urban fantasy stories Bakemonogatari is referencing are post-Boogiepop. LOTS of overlap between the two, but they're different trends.The reason westerners are oblivious to this genre is because light novel adaptions were rarer at the time (so rare, in fact, that Boogiepop and Others didn't see adaption until the 2010s, despite being THE most important light novel ever written). So even the really big ones like Infinity Zero, Missing, and Tengoku ni Namida wa Iranai never got adapted in any form.
>>281906699>It's not a deep genreIt actually is though, it probably the deepest genre in anime overall judged by writing quality.
>>281906903You're such a clown.
>>281906734You separate fiction from reality before watching it. I could care less if it's good or not irl, it's fiction not a documentary. like some medieval flick has a monarchy, idc. Second, you're doing deconstruction but didn't watch it, and the genre is imagined, 90% they don't even have polygamy and it ends w/ monogamy.
>>281906947Again, it doesn't matter if it's fiction or reality. What's relevant is your mental state as a person, and how that will effect society around you. Anyone who supports harem shit/polygamy doesn't function correctly in society and will be a drain on society. >90% they don't even have polygamySure. But the issue is the same thing as porn addiction, and the literal brain rot it causes.
>>281907010>Anyone who supports harem shit/polygamyNo one is supporting monogamy. You didn't get that and still confuse reality for fiction. polygamy is happening in a game or slopflick. >le games cause violence shlockNo one thinks of the dreg in society that is people who have low iq and parade that "games cause violence". they're so dumb and waste society's time with this and thats why society stagnates, it's not being geared towards constructive improvement and making flying cars. If you didn't exist, society would be so advanced we'd have flying cars.
>>281907181Proof read your posts. Also space them correctly. You don't fit in by "not reddit spacing".And no matter how much you repeat yourself, no one confusing reality and fiction. This is a discussion of YOU, and YOUR mental state.And the comparison here isn't violence. It's porn. And there's objective proof porn causes literal brain rot. Thus causing you to be a brain on society.
>>281879821Ranma 1/2.
>>281906532>avoid money>avoid slave work>avoid liars>avoid thieves>avoid bosses>avoid faggots>avoid trannies>avoid politics>avoid ugly women>avoid weak men>avoid deathShut the fuck up you negawitted, unthinking, bastardization of a man.
>>281907461Are you okay, anon? No need to get your panties in a bunch over a genre of anime.
>>281879626why is this screenshot mirrored horizontally from the source material
>>281907495Do not reply to me again, pederast.
>>281907554
>>281907461>avoid money>avoid slave work>avoid liars>avoid thieves>avoid bosses>avoid faggots>avoid trannies>avoid politics>avoid ugly women>avoid weak menMah nigga Erdős. Shame about the last one though.
>>281906747Dansho no Grimm is probably a better example of those sorts of series than those. It's very, VERY Monogatari-esque.But yeah, that entire era is interesting because it's in kind of a weird bubble where the Western otaku community wasn't really in contact with what Japan was doing, so a bunch of really popular stuff from that timeframe is mostly unknown over here outside of anime adaptions. It's not even just light novels. Stuff like ToHeart and Sister Princess were MASSIVE in Japan around that time, but the only real contact anyone in the English-speaking world had with them was through their loose anime adaptions.
>>281899648>madoka is not a deconstruction because the series is derivative from the sailor moon manga which is the cornerstone of magical girl stuffJust because it ripped off another deconstruction doesn’t suddenly make it not a deconstruction anymore, it’s still a deconstruction, just an unoriginal one.
>>281899648I... don't really think so. Madoka has fuck-all to do with Sailor Moon beyond the sentai-esque team lineup. It's mostly drawing from late 00s Pretty Cure, but there's some Cardcaptor Sakura in there, too (the very first scene of the show is a direct reference to the first scene of the Cardcaptor Sakura anime).
>>281908682Not who you're replying to (there's at least one Sailor Moon autist that basically seems to believe Sailor Moon invented the genre) but I read the manga last year and the ending of the arc with Sailor Saturn did strike me as very similar to Madoka.>late 00s Pretty CurePrecure is a direct descendant of Sailor Moon. Which is also partially why it generally sucks.
>>281901935>toy line that makes anime on the sidethey make new anime series to sell their new line-up of gundams. this isn't a passion project to use the funds made from selling plastic to contribute to the artform of anime they're doing it to sell even more plastic as the ultimate goal
>>281908682>Madoka has fuck-all to do with Sailor Moon beyond the sentai-esque team lineup. It's mostly drawing from late 00s Pretty CureNope, Madoka took direct inspiration from and basically ripped off the the final arc of the Sailor Moon manga, and the staff isn’t exactly subtle that they copied it either, pic-related.
>>281907220>RanmaAre you shitposting or are you seriously making a case for Ranma to be considered a deconstruction? Because there is in fact an argument to be had here, but it’s more on the satire/parody side. The real question is, can comedic satires or parodies be considered deconstructions all on their own or do all deconstructions have to be edgy and grimdark?Ranma could be considered to be a satirical deconstruction of traditional martial arts battle shonen like Dragon Ball and Hokuto Ken, in fact wasn’t that exactly what Rumiko was intending the series to be?
>anno made evangelion because he hates mecha! it's about how gundam is wrong! stop liking mecha!>anno directs part of a gundam series and it's so incredibly laser-focused on nostalgia blasting and sucking off the series most famous elements that it's embarrassing and drags down any of the original elements it tries to introduce with nonstop references and callbacksI don't think anno dislikes gundam in the slightest. He fanboyed so fucking hard lol
>>281909204he didnt direct it thoughthat said, people have always been pretentious with how they handle AnnoThe Eva deconstruction retardation is one thing, but I've always found Rebuild glazers with their dumbass anti-otaku interpretation as especially stupid when Anno went and played with his teen otaku obsessions in Ultraman and Kamen Rider immediately after
>>281910905>dumbass anti-otaku interpretationmedia literacy not found
>>281879626Chimera Ant arc is a real deconstruction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lKRx3vAywo
>>281910923precisely
>>281910923So hecking cute and valid and iconic post
>>281879672This is true, but because /a/ is a Wittgensteinian board, we recognize the word has utility in the neckbeard circles to also describe certain traits in fiction. Really the only people who get assblasted about "this isn't muh original deconstruction" are the ones who are trying to do some kind of a grandstand and pre-emptively shut down the discussion, most likely because there's something else in the topic that makes them seethe (in example, western nerd culture in general, or just anime you dislike). There's no reason to have this thread because no one is sincerely confused by the terms. I posted classical art to signal I am very smart.
lel amazing how a word still makes seethe 15 years later.It's like the nigger of anime.
>>281890893Surely you can post the link to the answer then
>>281912090>Wittgensteinian…What?
>>281913287logical autism
Eva is gay
why did eva become so much more popular then gunbuster
>watching jewtube "essayists" You have down syndrome. Go back to preddit
>>281879626Madoka is a deconstruction. It subverts the genre the same way eva did with mecha
>>281880954This id true. Samumenco really is a deconstruction
>>281913835as opposed to what? porn, shonenslop, moeslop, and waifufaggotry here?
morning homus
Madoka is a just a unique and good show
>>281913916Read a book for once, you ESL chimp.
>youtube screencap thread/a/ is healing /v/bros
>>28188224980s Mahou shoujo like Minky Momo and Creamy Mami are just as blatant toy commercials as SM though
>>281914164hey minky momo was not bad
I never visit Meguca threads, but have these extremely drunk memories that I argued with someone about Metro during the stream
>>281914380that would likely be me, I have played 2033 probably over a hundred times at this point and I vaguely remember that too
>>281914461Nice. Did you play Awakening? I ended up quite liking it, even though it was probably objectively worse than the rest of the games
>>281914164That's why Madoka is a deconstrution, because instead of being show about good girl beating bad guys by power of love, it became a show where good girls became a bad ones by trying to do good things.
This thread is high
>>281914545no, I dont have VR and forgot this was even a thingI read the 2035 book a few months agoThe Exodus Two cornels DLC was coolThe next mainline game will probably be open world again, not the biggest fan of that>worse then the restProbably also down to to the rest of the book series not being nearly as strong as 2033
>>281914738Exodus DLCs weren't released when I first played them so I'm saving them for my replay. Currently on Last Light and it's much longer than I remembered>worse then the restIt's mostly because it lacks some cool features I love in the games, like proper surface sections and air guns. But it's pretty fun to sneak around in VR and it has the atmosphere down mostly right, so it's cool. Get it if you ever invest in VR, though don't expect a masterpiece or anything
Why haven't you watched the show that directly inspired Madoka Magica yet?
>>281914827I would for sure play it after the amount of times I played the first few games, more content is always goodFor the DLCs in Exodus I have to say, I liked one way more then the other, im curious which one you will like better>LL longer then expectedIts really not much longer then 2033, I thought the end felt pretty rushed evenI have some good memories in LL especially the railcar section and the marshes
>>281915138Well the other DLC is Sam DLC and I like him as a character, so I'm sort of predisposed to liking that, but we'll see which one I like more>Its really not much longer then 2033Interesting, maybe I just feel that way because the railcar section really branches out and sort of slows the pace. I like that though, exploring is fun
>>281915289it is not super long if you think about itThe betrayel by Pavel comes after maybe two hours, then you make it through the armored train area, past the outpust and there you are allready put into the railcar sectionBut that is a section where you can take alot of timeBut after that from Venice it goes pretty fast again, small bandit segment, then up through the marshes, catacombs to save Anya and after that it is pretty much endgame allreadyBut I think the atmosphere really makes the games so I never rush themKnowing too much also kinda takes away from Metro, but I still enjoy the games2033 is super easy apart from 2 segments, but alot of people claim its a really hard game
>>281915289I dont remember from back then, but did you play redux or the original Metro 2033?The redux is in some parts cut and has different level design, if you havent id recommend it
>>281915821I think I've played both the original at launch and Redux later. The last I played it like 2 years back was Redux though and I'm too amnesiac to compare.
>>281912091/a/ will be made to acknowledge MagiReco for I will shove it all the way in on the haters You gonna swallow it boy.
This is a deconstruction of magical girls
Which one of you cock mingling faggota is next?
>>281913995>Madoka>uniqueIt’s just a ripoff of the Sailor Moon Stars arc from the manga.
i love homura so muchkeep on living for homura!
>>281909204What redditors don’t realize is that Gunbuster and Evangelion are so incredibly laser-focused on nostalgia blasting and sucking off various series most famous elements that it's embarrassing
>>281881710>The problem with all of that is that the word deconstruction still exists and it obviously refers to EVA and MadokaI've seen people call Re:Zero an isekai deconstruction
>>281909204I always thought the "joke" of Evangelion is that it uses the goofy toyetic 1970s "teenagers in mechs beating up aliens" plot setup, but with 80s "real robot" sensibilities.
>>281879626thats not how it works
>>281917761Evangelion has no jokes, it's a serious show for serious mature adults
>>281916153Powerpuff Girls feels more like a Western riff on Cutey Honey instead.
tommorow i have to do stuff
homura pregnant
>>281920243what did he mean by this
>>281879626>deriddaJust another nonce
>>281880954>Samurai Flamenco10/10
Well if this thread proves anything, is that deconstruction is a nonsense word that has no actual objective definition and its a fav of midwits retards for this very reason. They love latching onto words like that, "media literacy" is a similar one.>>281887220>>281887506I mean, when you have TVtropes call Pokemon first episode a "deconstruction" and thinking Shudo was "deconstructing" the Pokemon world. Pure midwittery spouted by leddit and tvtropes and videoessayist faggots.I always felt that way about the word. After all, its always spouted by narcassitic midwits. When they say Madoka is a "deconstruction" of the magical girl genre, its always hard to take them seriously. It implies they have an understanding of the genre, and are knowledgeable of its past, and then you find out the only magical girl show they ever watched was Sailor Moon. In rare cases, it might include a few others.
>>281920947God what a fun ride that was. People were losing their shit from episode to episode for like 3/4 of the entire show.
pray for the future
Jesus what a nigger faggot thread...
>>281920243By Madoka
my noodle legs are making things harder then they need to be
>>281921371You sound like the type of midwit you pretend to criticize, because you have no understanding of basically anything. You start the post by pretending that words somehow have objective definitions, which is super ironic, considering a lot of the thread is alluding to how deconstruction is used academically. I'm not even going to argue this point with you deeper, because people who pretend that language isn't subjective are so detached from reality and basically every development on the field since 1950's that discussing any of this will not serve a sincere point. And not to dickride tvtropes, but you misunderstand what tropes are and how they are used if it really makes you this confused that a series could technically be classified a deconstruction of itself, according to how the neckbeards there define their terms. Tldr you have no idea what you're talking about and everyone but you can see it
>>281879672>Deconstruction is a nothing term tossed about by retards desperate to prove their "thing" has more depth to it and isn't just a silly cartoon because they're scared of admitting they like things as they are.I agree with you, except for "silly cartoon". My thing is not a silly cartoon, it is beautiful and I love it for what it is >>281880553it is a decades old problem now, people are no longer able to create object level beauty so they resort to meta level manipulation of tropes. At this point everyone can see through it though
