What's the verdict on Fate/Zero?
middle school me loved it, s1 & s2, but i should probably rewatch it before writing anything more in-depth...
>>282167493Only decent thing to come out of the fate franchise.
>>282167493Zero/Fate
I loved Fate / Stay when I originally watched it. I liked Fate / Zero when I first watched it, but over time I think Fate / Zero became my favorite. Overall its a more interesting story with cooler characters.
>>282167652Lazy retard bait
>>282167493Man I thought this shit was deep in highschool.
It's bearable and only held in high regards because in 2009 it's only competition was DEEN FSN which you can only appreciate if you've read the vn.There's like 2 good and memorable fight scenes in it.Each following Fate adaptation by Ufotable looks way better.Bad ugly tentacle cg and dumb cg dogfight this anime sucks.Minor contradictions to the vn are acceptable but they just straight up didn't deliver on Saber as a character. Should have been the king who doesn't understand the heart of men. Who's only purpose is to endlessly persue the Holy Grail. Instead we got weak minded loser version of the character who gets openly mocked by dudebros. No fucking pride for the one called "King of Knights".
>>282167652/thread.
>>282167652BUTCHERED the competing material
It's shit.
>>282167652UBW wasn't good?
>>282168016>Minor contradictions to the vn are acceptable but they just straight up didn't deliver on Saber as a character. Should have been the king who doesn't understand the heart of men. Who's only purpose is to endlessly persue the Holy Grail. Instead we got weak minded loser version of the character who gets openly mocked by dudebros. No fucking pride for the one called "King of Knights".Nasu told Urobutcher to write Saber getting the humiliation ritual by Gil and Iskander.Its in the the interview was in Zero Vol 1.>“Ah. If so, what about getting me to write about the fourth Heaven’s Feel? Something like Fate/zero.”>So… impressive!!>Isn’t this just great? To be honest, I even think this is an idea more wonderful than developing the Hollow game.>Then, we began to discuss about it:>“Speaking of, what is the fourth war about?”>“Hum – Saber getting bullied by Gilgamesh and Alexander!”>I answered unceremoniously.>In my mind, there are two main points in the fourth Heaven’s Feel.>One is Saber’s setback.>King Arthur, who ruled her people as the model human. The selfless and devoted, just and uncorrupted Artoria.>The absolute commander who surpassed mortals, the majestic Gilgamesh.>And the extravert king, whom some called a tyrant, but still held his belief that he’ll bring his people to happiness. The King of Conquerors, Alexander, who ruled the world as a man.>Using the intensive conflict between the three to unravel Saber’s story in Zero.>And the other point is Kiritsugu’s story. I contracted that to him according to his wishes as well. I don’t care about other things anymore.>“I understand. Then I’ll do it according to the way I like it to be. Ah, but I’ll do my best to get the style of the piece close to Fate.”>He is indeed Urobuchi Gen, able to think about TYPE-MOON’s clients.
>>282167493Overall shit, but Kiritsugu is easily the best MC in the nasuverse
>>282167493>>282167762>>282168193Suit Saber is hot.
>>282167493Bad like the rest of it
What happened to Strange Fake?
>>282167652SP = BPI always tell people to watch fate/zero and ignore the rest.
>>282169088He's a manchild.
>>282171977The point of Zero was that it's a manchild's tragedy
>>282171977Yeah, him being a manchild and the best MC in the nasuverse aren't mutually exclusive
>>282167652This, Nasu is a hack that can barely cobble together a middling story.Decent ideas, terrible execution.
It's an interesting and entertaining enough prequel/accompaniment to F/SN, but somehow there are retards who think it's good enough to stand on its own and be considered a self-contained story. I have never understood that whatsoever
>>282172743Fate/zero is written perfectly fine as a standalone work
>>282167493The verdict is thatGrail wars are retardes Artoria was engineered to end the age of gods and mystery in order to secure a future for humanity and blow up aliens Britain was always fucked and saving it is the quickest way to destroy earthChaldea operations are better
>>282172760No. Especially not with how it ends.
>>282167493Kiritsugu is literally me
No, you don't understand, he likes hamburgers because the "taste of slaughter" suits him more.
>>282167493My memories are more around the hype it created in the anime community back in 2011. Comicon NY was crazy because of it. I liked seeing my favorite VN series get so much attention
>>282174183That's just a poorly phrased translation of "crude flavor".
>>282167493It is unironically the reason Fate became a worldwide phenomenon. Is it bad or good? FSN VNfags would say no due to Zero making Fate mainstream. Type-Moonfags hate it because Nasu went all in on Fate afterwards.It is good for Type-Moon themselves since they're rich now.
>>282167493Second best Fate entry, behind Prisma Illya only.
>>282174395But that's still fucking retarded and the inner dialogue of a manchild.
>>282167493it was great
>>282168016>There's like 2 good and memorable fight scenes in it.Seiba vs. DeermoodKerry vs. KaynethThe whole kaiju battleRider vs. HassansSeiba vs. LancelotKerry vs. KireiRider vs. GilAlmost every F/Z fight was great what are you on
>>282170143There will be a new episode next year.
Best anime beach episode
>>282167493Kino. Peak Fate
it was fun, unlike anything anyone is capable of producing now
>>282178190You forget Lancelot vs Gil. FSNfags should like that one since Gil gets his ship blown up.
>>282167493Gilgamesh is the only good King.
>>282180058>Lancelot vs GilI include it into the kaiju battle
>>282167493Uro fanfic that mischaracterized Nasu's characters, but I liked the LN when I first read itThe adaptation is poorly directed but nobody noticed this over the animation quality and the music, it's actually worse than CSM season 1
>>282180202>The adaptation is poorly directedHow?
>>282179870There was a beach episode? I don't remember any servants in bikinis.
>>282168016>Should have been the king who doesn't understand the heart of men.Because she's a woman? That's boring and misogynistic.
>>282168334>I don’t care about other things anymore.Why did he become so unenthusiastic about his work?
>>282167652>zerofagsCCC clears
>>282167493
>>282178190>Seiba vs. Deermood>Kerry vs. KaynethThose fights were ones that stood out. I like Deermood's death scene and his curse, along with Kayneth getting boomed by Kiritsugu's special bullets.
>>282167493Terribly melodramatic. Fit to only entertain anime beginners of a young age. That's a good scene though, a debate of genuine depth though Gilgamesh should have had a few things to say being a pre-ancient hero.
>>282167493Maybe it was 2 deep for me but I wanted more Lancelot X saber drama and more saber in general. Saber in the show felt dull. did not give a shit about half of the cast especially lancer.
>>282167493The 2nd best Fate anime after Prisma Illya
>>282174630He is a manchild who loves junk food, yes. The contrast between him and Shirou who’s a self-made man waking up at 4 in the morning to prepare full traditional Japanese breakfast is very much intentional.
>>282180058That's not even what happened in the LN. Urobuchi clarifies that the F-15J's armaments get infused with mana and become anti-Servant weapons, but Berserker deploys the countermeasures only to blind Gil and throw his ass into the water while he goes for Saber instead. His ship being destroyed in the anime exists only to cut off the scene early.Also, he managed to actually fire the 20mm at Saber while freefalling instead of having Lancer pry it off him immediately.
>>282182927The finale is a rushed train wreck because they wasted time on a filler episode in the first cour.
>>282167493It's ok to care about your people. They aren't tool's
>>282184529>filler episode in the first cour.Which episode was that?
>>282167493The zenith of TM in popularity and relevance.https://youtube.com/watch?v=0VnvdO3WJnU&pp=ygUJT2F0aCBzaWdu
>>282184592Loli Rin's misadventures, the Zero director was a rinfag. Takahiro Miura
>>282184642That episode was peak, and showed Kariya's good side.
>>282184723It was fanservice filler, and Kariya doesn't have a good side. He's a selfish cowardly cuck.
>>282184793His right side is his good side.
i didnt find the filler that egregious, its 24/25 episodes long so its not like lycoris recoil which spent 6 of its 12 episode run on nothing.
>>282184723The Kariya part was canon, it was the Mary Sue shit where loli Rin solo'd Ryuunosuke and saved the kids that was filler. In the LN, she got scared by a familiar and passed out before she got anywhere close to the base.
>>2821674938/10Good secondary cast (including Waver/Rider)Bad main cast (AKA everyone in FSN and their buddies, except Iri and Rin)Everyone from FSN was worse in FZ and it was more fun to follow the Rider/Lancer/Caster/Berserker pairs. Rin's episode was the best episode of the show.
>>282186199I feel Lancelot should have had his own plot, or if he did it was rushed.
>>282178212how about the ln? any news on strange fake last volume?
>>282187703The anime cut pretty much all of it from the finale along with other things like why Gilgamesh and Kirei survived the grail mud.
>>282189744The ending is a complete mess, difficult to understand even if you're familiar with FSN and the true nature of the grail. It's utterly nonsensical otherwise, and I hate how retards recommend it as an introduction to fate.
>>282167493Amazing series that even eclipses FSN in some aspects. UroCHAD cooked
>>282186199>Rin's episode was the best episode of the show.It was filler of the worst kind and completely uninteresting for Zero only people
>>282189896It was great and I'm not even a Rinfag.Honestly loli Rin was an upgrade on real Rin (the exception to the rule in FZ).
>>282189822I can kinda understand the introductory part. Zero is one of the very few entries to play the HGW straight, rather than having massive twists halfway through that undermine the battle royale concept. So in a strange twist of fate (heh), it's a nice way to understand how fucked up the 5th war is in comparison (even more rigged w/ compromised set of Masters and even stronger Servants).Of course, the characters make it extremely spoiler-filled and setup annihilating, so it's not the best way to go about consuming the core Fate stuff. But it's not terrible either, considering the existence of anime-onlies who can't stomach VNs or appreciate QUALITY.
>>282190092The problem with that is fate was never supposed to be about the grail war. Every character calls the grail war stupid, it fails over and over, it ends in destruction and death, the three families have all fallen to ruin in pursuit of it. It's just the premise and setting for telling a proper character-driven story, and trying to force a serious plot entirely within the battle royale concept inevitably sucks. A secondary issue to that is having a huge cast of characters that you need to develop and dedicate time to. It's why Zero and Apoc are so shitty. FSF has some really cool ideas but also suffers.
>>282189822The way people laud it as an amazing adaptation is ridiculous too, because it does a lot of changes of the exact same kind that people complain about in the HF movies. Vital explanations, character-defining flashbacks and pivotal scenes are all mercilessly cut, with directing that very clearly favors some characters (Waver went from suspensefully teetering between being a bitter asshole like Shinji and inept but well-meaning like Fate Shirou in the LN to an over the top moe comic relief character) while being biased against others (what the fuck was with that anime-original dry-humping from a porno-esque angle when Kariya was choking Aoi). Kiritsugu vs Kirei is far worse than even Shirou vs Kirei in the HF movies, too, because at least they didn't change the location of it to the fucking Batcave because they were too focused on animating a sakuga tech demo to bother drawing the burning parking lot that sets the tone.
>>282167493Urobuchi wipes his ass with Nasu's finest works. Zero is the only good Fate series.>>282167652SPBP
>>282167652
>>282167493Peak. Would be even better if it was made by more experienced post-KnY Ufotable with even bigger budget.
>>282190224Apocrypha's LN does the characters justice, and so does the manga to an extent. The anime being a turn-off-your-brain kind of fantasyslop is its own fault. As for Strange Fake, it's kind of a mess because it's the one Fate entry/subseries that almost entirely lacks any sort of message or central drive to its story. It's the Fate version of modern shonenslop made before modern shonenslop was even a thing.>>282190251The problems go even deeper than that at times. It might look the best out of all the ufo Fate stuff, but like you said it's got almost all of UBW and especially HF's problems, minus feeling truncated and rushed>tech isn't 80s/90s>Kariya doesn't have the body horror>Ryuunosuke doesn't have the serial killer aura>Tokiomi doesn't have the internal magi struggles>Kayneth doesn't have the grounded side of himself>All the female characters have their retardation turned up to 11>Maiya doesn't get her backstory (for better or worse)>Lancelot has 2/3 his screentime>Iskandar is doubly abrasive and had his humor snuffed out>Hassans being used as bait isn't given any weightOf all the things people give Zero shit for, the banquet ended up being the one part that was left mostly uncompromized. It's still worse than in the LN but only in minor ways. Also, the OST is decent but it's nothing compared to the fantastic one the LN got prior.
>>282190224A story that fails to adhere to its premise is a story that is a failure. That's the sole reason why sword art online is shit.We were promised a survival death game and instead we got a shitty romance.Those other fate adaptions get bogged down by filler.The only good fate adaptions so far was Camelot, babylonia, and Solomon.
>>282183311It's less a lack of enthusiasm and more that he had a fairly simple outline of the must-include factors for Zero. He trusted Urobuchi to do the work justice so long as he included the few things he mandated be a part of it.
>>282189744>like why Gilgamesh and Kirei survived the grail mud.I was so confused by that. I also think the fire is different from how it was depicted in Studio Deen's adaption of Fate/stay night, so I was like did they retcon the events of how it was depicted in Fate/stay night?
>>282190493Bill Clinton was in the anime?
>>282167493Spike 2.0
>>282190754The showdown between Lancelot and Arturia felt like somebody skipped from the first 10 percent to the last 10 percent of a fight even though I never read the source material. The bad pacing is that palpable.
>>282190754>>Maiya doesn't get her backstory (for better or worse)It wasn't good?
>>282191911It's the standard generic boring war-torn country and rape abuse backstory. She is emotionlessly fucking Kiritsugu in the LN as practice or punishment for him contributing to Iri's inevitable death. It's fucking stupid.
>>282192008As someone who likes FSN & FHA's H-material and uncensored script, that part of the LN was terrible. Maiya suddenly dumping her life story on Irisviel (and one like that) in the 4th volume was pointless. Her other mistress moments were fine (ie. Kerry dumping his own emotions in the trash so Iri's upcoming demise doesn't kill his motivations outright), but that one was a complete dud.
>>282191711What is that?
>>282191622>the fire is different from how it was depicted in Studio Deen's adaption of Fate/stay nightDEEN was never canon for a variety of reasons, but Kiritsugu and Kirei fighting amidst a burning hellscape of a public facility was set in stone from the start and was adapted (or rather teased) properly.The original premise (that FSN told) was>Kiritsugu/Saber and Kirei/Gilgamesh fight amidst a burning hellhole>Gilgamesh "wins" his battle with Saber (?) while Kiritsugu shoots Kirei in the heart>Kiritsugu forces Saber to destroy the Grail>Grail mud gets dumped on Gil, incarnating him>Grail mud infects Kirei and Kiritsugu, reviving the former for 10 years only and cursing the latter to a slow death>Kiritsugu spares Kirei in some form and Saber's goneZero itself already changed some stuff (Gil and Saber didn't even meet at the end because both were busy with Iskandar and Lancelot respectively) but the anime went a bit further by changing the scenery of the Master duel entirely.
>>282192651>>Kiritsugu spares Kirei in some formWhy'd he do it?
>>282167493I liked it a lot in middle/high school, whenever it was.Then I watched it as an adult and still liked it a lot. It doesn't gel very well with other Fate stuff, but that's fine. >>282168221The anime? I didn't like it, didn't even watch past the first half. Loses too much from the VN.
>>282192852Zero says he didn't even notice him (or was too emotionally dead to care) when the mud evaporated and the war ended. Otherwise, it might've been out of spite or from a twisted sense of mercy. Kirei himself went insane trying to figure out why he was spared
it's good but i think it was too ruthless at times with trying to depict the disillusionment saber was going through. that was obviously the intent, but it still felt more bleak than desired. i don't know how to describe it, but in fate it always felt like the lesson is meant to be transferred from hero to master and vice versa, but all the heroes dunking on her desire to bear the weight of her people's needs was a bit rough. besides that it was pretty good.
>>282167493kino
>>282192994People hate Zero Saber not because the script is too rough on her, but because the scriptwriter didn't get FSN Saber at all. Her almost giving out her name to Assassin when it had practically no real stake anymore since the war was minutes away from ending and he knew he was going to get plowed by a far superior servant either way is all that honorfags have to hold on to when arguing for Zero Saber's case.
>>282167493Personally I loved it. I think the differences between it and FSN are cool and add to the story.
>>282167652People that like Zero for its darker tone should read Heaven's Feel.
>>282193941Original FSN is far darker even outside of HF than anything Zero has to offer. People just can't be bothered to read the fucking thing, and if they do, it's often the sanitized Realta Nua version.
>>282193941Yeah I liked HF and UBW too
>>282193974I read it a long time ago, I don't remember Fate and UBW being dark outside of Shiro finding a bunch of dead kids in the basement.
>>282194046Did you not get that bad end where Kuzuki punches Tohsaka's head off and sends it flying like a fucking golf ball?
>>282167652True lolI liked Zero, started watching another one that people said was good. It wasn't good, it was so trite.
>>282194202But you're supposed to read, not watch. The Ufotable adaptations are corny.
>>282168016>Oh nooo, contradictions to the genius plot of the mediocre porn game? This is simply unacceptableUroBasedchi took as many liberties as he had to to make something good out of this franchise. Much like Kubrick making The Shining out of a pretty forgettable Steven King novel
Why is Shiro such a sperg in the anime?
>>282190754>Also, the OST is decent but it's nothing compared to the fantastic one the LN got prior.>tfw we never got Emiya -time alter- in the animehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqls64aYUs
>>282168133sasuga
>>282194388Caster's Battle and The Dogfight are both tracks that'll never leave my mind, they genuinely make the OST eclipse even FSN&FHA's for me. I wish Zero had been released as a VN with it+more
>>282167493I remember enjoying it quite a bit back in the day (even though I thought Kiritsugu and his mission to kill every woman he came in contact started to feel forced and was less interesting than most of the other contestants), but I'm not really a fan of the rest of the Fate franchise, so I thought its open ending for the sake of tying itself to the VN was unsatisfying.
>>282184553I did think it was odd looking back how everyone shitting on Arthur for being a martyr for her people was treated like a big, "Gotcha!" moment for her that she's never allowed to defend further, despite the fact she was clearly the least shitty king of the bunch. It feels like all three should have been at each other's throats for different reasons based on the different standards of their different times.
>>282193605obligatory zero saber was retarded, and her manchild master was the more sensible of the two
>>282167493The only Fate series i read/watch is Fate/Zero + Fate Stay Night + Fate/Hollow Ataraxia. Thats it, i dont read anything else
>>282194804All the kings are pretty shitty in their own right but I think Iskandar's the worst. His ending is basically like his real life myth.Saber's ending is inevitable since the World itself wanted Camelot to collapse.It's funny how Gil's the best king but only after his journey.
>>282183567??? Illya died in Zero ? I forgot this
>>282194983>Saber's ending is inevitable since the World itself wanted Camelot to collapse.Is that FGO lore?
>>282192451Spike from Cowboy Bebop I guess
>>282195104Wasn't it Garden of Avalon? Even before FGO, Quantum Time Locks existed. Things that cannot be change since Camelot's downfall ended the age of Mystery for Britain or something.
>>282194532This reminds me of the Gate of AVALON albumhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdR7m7PFLzQ6uDsTBAv2-GjNJ6Xiu5ltZhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLtoXqBUsME&list=PLdR7m7PFLzQ6uDsTBAv2-GjNJ6Xiu5ltZ&index=8Ionian Hetairoi and Enuma Elish are also good tracks, but my favorites are Excalibur and EMIYA. I think EMIYA track is the best remix I've ever heard of it, however the narrated lyrics at the start are awful. This is going to sound really fucking stupid, but I have a remix of the remix that doesn't have the lyrics. I've had it for years and don't know how I got it, maybe off some massive fate ost torrent from nyaa.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpN33mgdw5A&list=PLdR7m7PFLzQ6uDsTBAv2-GjNJ6Xiu5ltZ&index=11https://vocaroo.com/1jrMhKRcsHgB
>>282194159Sasuga, the Japanese school system really gets its JKs ahead of the rest
>>282189822>I hate how retards recommend it as an introduction to fate.it was how I was introduced and I had no problem getting into the rest of it.
>>282168016>but they just straight up didn't deliver on Saber as a character. Should have been the king who doesn't understand the heart of men. Who's only purpose is to endlessly persue the Holy Grail. Instead we got weak minded loser version of the character who gets openly mocked by dudebros. No fucking pride for the one called "King of Knights".Saber is inconstent as fuck even in the original. One moment she's a murderous autist willing to cut down her own master, another a chivalrytard trying to reveal her true name out of etiquette, and another a funny moeblob foodie falling head over heels for some highschooler. All Zero did was pick one of those and stick to it.
>>282195701>One moment she's a murderous autist willing to cut down her own masterAfter spending the entire story up to that point pissing her off, despite her being that route's heroine in an eroge VN, and the game pretty much calls you a retard afterward. And she regrets it immediately.>another a chivalrytard trying to reveal her true name out of etiquetteLiterally just one time, and only because fake assassin is the most likeable and respectful chad in the entire story. Otherwise she is openly okay with underhanded strategies as long as innocent people don't get hurt.>funny moeblob foodieBecause she needs food for energy. It just so happens to work out because Shirou is a great cook despite being a terrible master. And it just so happens that the fighting is mostly reserved for night, meaning there is plenty of time for slice of life and characterization. This is all by design by the way in case you didn't notice.
>>282167652obvious bait that I'd expect to hear from the same normiefag Fate haters I used to talk with years ago
>>282196619It's a falseflag. The anon who posted it hates both FSN and Zero.
>>282195104Garden of avalon lore.Actually it's funny how people ignore one of nasus best works and the amount of lore in it.Well actually, most people ignored the lore in the VN too because they just wanted to talk about the shitty characters.
>>282190087She was, that episode was inspiring. Nobody wants to see a bunch of kids die for the heck of it.
>>282193941>it's dark because it has rape and stuff
>>282198636>Nobody wants to see a bunch of kids die for the heck of it.But that's the majority of the plot for the first half of the show, and one of the many reasons it sucks. Uro repeated FSN by using caster as a midpoint boss but he was worse in every way to Medea, and the child gore somehow did not improve it.
>>282184553>>282194804They never argued that their people were tools. They were true leaders who captured the hearts of their people. Meanwhile Arthurs's vassals all suffered, and her son betrayed him. Saber only became king because a watery tart threw a sword at her.>hurrdurr their kingdom collapsedWhy should they be at fault for the incompetence of those who come after?
>>282198806She should have ruled with an iron fist?
>>282198859I don't know what made you think that
>>282198909Less chance she gets betrayed by Lancelot.
>>282198979or you know, emotionally connect with them. incite feelings of comradery. set a goal that people can relate to and die for.
>>282199052She did, she was revered by the Knights of The Round and her people. They were inspired by her.
>>282167493It gave normalfags the completely wrong idea about Fate. It's funny seeing them start with Zero and then get filtered by FSN
>>282199127Reverence is not the same as love. Gil and Iskandar were loved.
>>282199173Loving the King is pretty weird when he has total control of you. I don't know if the people should be content with being slaves.
>>282199263>loving your parents is pretty weird when they have total control of you
>>282199273The King is not your parent, he's your ruler. Even if he's kind and friendly, there's always going to be the line that has to be respected between ruler and subject. It's not an equal relationship, and the love would be conditional. Ultimately the King has an obligation to whatever he values the most and that can come at a detriment to his citizens.
>>282199350>and the love would be conditionalAll love is conditional.
>>282167493The series as a whole is fucking retarded. The plot is stupid, it has retarded quasi-isekai video game mechanics, it practically feels like it was designed to be a mobile game. It WAS designed to be a fucking porn game.It doesn't really have merit as a setting, or a narrative.What it does have is hot girls, and scenarios that titillate the chuuni middle school imagination.The anime was airing when I was 13, so I was the prime age to like it. And I did. Now I'm a grown man and I think it's fucking gay.
>>282199778Yeah why isn't it like slice of life and rom com slop?
>>282199972>If you dislike pancakes, you must love waffles!Sorting everything into retarded, binary dichotomies is the number one indicator of stupidity in the modern era.Just because I don't like your faggy sloppa for middle schoolers doesn't mean I like other sloppa for middle schoolers.
>>282167493the best entry in the Fate franchise
>>282200493basado
>>282200493She's talking to Sakamoto?
>>282190087>(the exception to the rule in FZ).Fate Zero versions of characters are worse than the Fate/stay night versions?
