>>282207240
>The premise that the most popular girl wants to be with him
That's not the premise, also
>AnH anime
It adapts so little on top of being ugly

>>282207290
might not be the premise if you want to be punctual but it's what makes it revolve around, and it's bad

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It's crazy how the manga seems to be almost universally loved, and the anime seems to be almost universally hated, and you can spin that as some deeper issues with relatability or mc or whatever, but the only difference really is the artstyle. It's fucking crazy how hard people get filtered when the cast doesn't actually look cute, but then have to try and pretend that's not the real issue, because it would feel really dumb admitting to that. Maybe they even sincerely believe they have some other real critique, but it's just born as a hindsight to something more visceral.

I attached a picture of a cute girl, so you can look at that now and finally feel at peace.

>>282207790
Ping pong the animation is one of my favourite anime of all time and even if it is uncomfortable at first, the artstyle isn't bad and fits the setting. I just cannot find a worse MC than this, he is just incoherent and irrelevant with nothing to offer

>>282207828
Ok but the girl I posted was really cute, wasn't she?

>>282207828
>no actually I like [ugly anime] because I watched this anime that's [critically acclaimed for its visuals]
What a smoothbrain take, you don't understand anything
Also the MC isn't really supposed to that relatable before the manga hits the second arc, where it starts to do the whole Camus Fall thing and becomes sort of obvious how it's trying to hold a mirror to your face
You're just witnessing the lives of kids who aren't very likeable. It's stupid to throw a tantrum when media challenges you even the tiniest bit. Of course you'll deny this, but it's just because you don't understand anything

>>282207240
It was kino, great atmosphere.

>>282208063
Whatever, I'm not bothered by the visuals.
There are plenty of characters which aren't relatable but have plenty to make up for it, he is not one of them so far, nor I think him becoming relatable can save him.
>y-you don't understand!!! It's a challenge!!
it's not deep, it's very straightforward and not intellectually challenging. It's challenging in the sense that it's a pain to watch, but I wouldn't consider that a compliment
>>282208120
Like this anon said, the atmosphere conveyed by the setting and direction is its one good point

>>282207240
He gets better in the second half of the manga

>>282208325
>he is not one of them so far
Well yeah the larger throughline is that the MC does deranged shit in his childhood, but then grows to be just a normalfag dealing with the baggage
Why are you pretending that it's somehow grounded critique to point out that a person who the work presents as a piece of shit isn't actually very likeable? Jesus fucking christ
Your issue is that you believe every piece of media needs to meet your specific needs when it comes to how the main character is presented, and aren't ready to sincerely just engage the work as it is
I could tell this in my last post already as it's pretty clear you're the type of a person who starts acting like a crybaby when they're outside their comfort zone

>>282207240
This is so ugly.

>>282208414
>Why are you pretending that it's somehow grounded critique to point out that a person who the work presents as a piece of shit isn't actually very likeable?
Because people who grow up watching anime or very specific genre fiction always become very confused when they find out that there are other ways to script your mc than the cookie cutter shonen protag

>>282207790
>It's crazy how the manga seems to be almost universally loved
AH
It's a very unpopular opinion and I get shit every time I voice it, but I genuinely did not like the manga. None of the author's works do it for me, so I stopped trying to read his stuff at all.
For Aku no Hana in particular, it's a coming-of-age story, so I think I might have already been too old when reading it, I was in my mid-20s or so when I read it. Maybe that's why I could not relate at all to the MC and all the dumb adolescent shit he does. For me the final kick in the nuts is the ending after he left the psycho girl behind and instead NTRs a girl from some guy while they're having relationship issues. That really stuck around in my mind as protagonist-centered morality. My fuarking hero.

>>282208414
Hmm, I can kind of see the point that he's not meant to be likeable, especially while he's a dumb kid doing dumb kid things, but as I alluded to above, I don't find him all that relatable afterwards either. I don't think not finding anything to engage with here is related to comfort zones or anything. Coming-of-age stories can be a bit tricky, sometimes they just completely fail to connect with you because the MC is completely removed from your experience, and I think that's what happens here. Probably the same thing with people going into Punpun threads saying "Why is he such a wuss, can't he just man up?". I wouldn't really call that a conscious refusal to engage with the work, rather an inability to do so, which is more unfortunate than anything. You understand a work on an intellectual level, but still get nothing out of it emotionally.

>>282207672
It's not really. The anime is just too short.

>>282207790
Ugly or pretty those did not look like middle schoolers and the viewer expects more from them

>>282207828
He's not supposed to be universaly relatable and definitely is not meant to appear smart or capable.

>normies can't relate to any sort of existential themes
Color me surprised lol. It's definitely not for everyone.

>>282208740
You're essentially the same kind of creature as OP, you rank fiction in terms of how much you relate to MC and that's the limit of your introspection. You might squirm and say that's not what you do, but the bulk of your post is dedicated to that. That's not to say there aren't works where this is a key thing that the author is trying to do, but it's also silly then to criticize works where the characters are very consciously built ugly.
>rather an inability to do so, which is more unfortunate than anything
I agree, and it's very common in existential media that people set up these hard walls that emotionally cut them off from the work. Most of the time -- like in Punpun you allude to -- I don't think it's the fault of the author at all. And I honestly don't think many of these people understand the works on "intellectual level" as for example in Aku no Hana, the last point is author basically spelling out very hard that you personally aren't any more meaningful than these miserable people, you just prefer not to think about it because it's uncomfortable. How can you understand that point intellectually if you're completely divorced from empathy? I know it's a cliche to say but I don't think people sincerely "get it" if they are so bothered by MC not being to their liking that they can't actually engage the media.

>>282207828
>I just cannot find a worse MC than this, he is just incoherent and irrelevant with nothing to offer
>yet I made a thread where I wrote small essays on how unlikeable he is
Very curious, it's as if the anime made you think or something

>>282209033
>the viewer expects more from them
Wtf did you expect from them?

>>282209415
I mean because they look so old you subconsciously expect them to be more mature. I always thought the anime failed to portray them in a way that helped.

Takao doesn't have to be your favorite character or anything. But he is a good character that drives the plot forward in a coherent and predictable way once you try to understand his angst. Same as all of them really, they never act just for the shock value of the scene, even when the scenes are shoking. That's what makes the manga great.

We had a nice daily of AnH not long ago.
You should track it down, see people enjoying it at different levels of engagement.

>>282207240
You don't read/watch it for the MC

I'm going to say it. Misery porn.

>>282209637
Not at all? It even has a happy ending.

>>282209497
>they never act just for the shock value of the scene
A lot of the beginning is just shock value

>>282209797
Not really no.

>>282209310
>You're essentially the same kind of creature as OP, you rank fiction in terms of how much you relate to MC and that's the limit of your introspection
lmaooooo
not everyone likes the same fucking manga deal with it

>>282209936
Yes. It doesn't do much besides disgust the audience (or arouse if they're into that stuff).

I watched this anime recently, it's atmosphere and ost is fantastic and the rotoscoping most of the time looks like shit but damn does it fit how eerie everything is.
Haven't started the manga yet

>>282207790
I read the Aku no Hana manga and didn't watch the anime. I still absolutely despise the MC. He doesn't make a single correct decision or do anything right. This is different from a protagonist who does bad things or is self-destructive but has sympathetic or understandable motivations like Satou from Welcome to the NHK. It's also different from a protagonist who's pure evil but presents interesting questions to the audience like Alex DeLarge. I can't describe in words how completely at odds I am with all of his ideals, values, and feelings. How can I get invested in anything when my only reaction to him crying is "Your parents won't let you see the psycho bitch anymore? Your panty fort got burned down? Good. Now stop whining you little bitch."

>>282207240
Anyone here from the AnH storytime?
I actually started meds thanks to my gf and got better so I guess Anon wins that one argument.

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it was fantastic
its tense and earie, the rotoscoping looks great and ads a somewhat uncanny feeling, the decision to make the kids look a little older was good, the OST is fantastic and the pacing is great
it took the good source material and made it even better and used its medium to improve it

shame its such a hard filter and they didn't get to make a second season
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDpgqUU5M5E

>>282210004
How does that disprove that he isn't like OP tho

>>282210093
>I still absolutely despise the MC. He doesn't make a single correct decision or do anything right
That's great but why does that matter at all?
Also if you read the manga then you'd know he essentially becomes a functional human by the end so you're either being hyperbolic or dishonest

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Takao is a Shinji like MC
you hate him because he's like a real person, with serious flaws and issues
and when you have an MC like that, you get exposed to things you don't like or might be challenging to watch or think about, maybe even worse, you might see a little bit of yourself in the way they act, maybe you might even be forced to reflect on the person you are
its a type of MC that tends to filter most people, don't feel bad about it OP

>>282210237
>Also if you read the manga then you'd know he essentially becomes a functional human by the end
But that kind of just happens because of the time skip, not because of any pivotal choices he makes in his character arc. So in a way, Nakamura is distinguished from him because she makes one correct decision.

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>>282207240
it really is a shame what they did.

>>282210012
It wasn't disgusting. It was mysterious and showed you how they process things trying to get into Sawa's impossible headspace. You sound very dismissive.

>>282208063
>it's trying to hold a mirror to your face
Well it failed

>>282210532
Yeah it definitely has nothing to do with him struggling and making amends the entire second half
Still, why does this even matter?

>>282210573
So you disagree with the overall existential point of the manga? What's your actual reasoning for that?

>>282208063
>It's stupid to throw a tantrum when media challenges you even the tiniest bit
??????
Challenged how? Does finding a manga bad or uninteresting automatically mean it challenges you? I guess we should all read Naruto for the challenge now?

>here's shit.
>it's meant to be shit.
>ENJOY IT
retards might never understand why someone would willingly create shit but elitist midwitt faggots will willingly eat shit up to feel superior

>>282210407
>these characters aren't supposed to be relatable
>except they actually are
Go with the first one. You'll have an easier time basing your argument around it.

>>282210407
So he's a self insert mary sue and every female character is obsessed with him for no reason?

>>282210733
You thinking the mc isn't relatable is not the kind of analytical critique you think it is bro
And let's be real, half the people shitting on this (like you) didn't even read the manga, but just have vague memories on the anime looking ugly
Maybe you should read that Naruto

>>282210121
Was the arguments that meds don't help?
I don't remember.

>>282210879
It was an argument about antipsychotics.

>>282210733
>he says while clearly throwing a tantrum

>>282210752
>here's shit
>It wasn't shit
>I couldn't relate
>You weren't supposed to 100%
Wow so hard.

>>282210717
Just so we can discuss on the same understanding, what do you think is the overall existential point of the manga?

>>282210892
I fail to remember but as far as Sawa goes I was of the opinion that it was left vague on purpose.

>>282210672
What amends did he make? Still pitying himself and stealing the popular girl from her boyfriend and the story presents him as in the right because
>I actually understand her true self unlike you shallow sheep

>>282210944
Yeah so you didn't read it, got it. If you wanted the 'same understanding' as if that wasn't something you reach to argument anyway, then you'd actually tell your take and not skirt around it like this.

>>282211036
I've now asked you twice why this matters and you haven't answered
I'm going to be mean and we're not going to discuss anything else on your list of worthless complaints before you explain that

>>282211046
Or you can actually give what you think the singular point of the story is so I can answer your question on the same foundation because otherwise you can just claim that I got it wrong and therefore I didn't "get" the manga.

>>282211168
Him making a "morally correct" decision doesn't really matter. It's more that I didn't find a single decision he made satisfying for a character arc.

>>282210857
>And let's be real, half the people shitting on this (like you) didn't even read the manga, but just have vague memories on the anime looking ugly
This has to be trolling at this point. Do you genuinely think that? I didn't even watch the anime.

>>282211177
>Or you can---
No, I don't care. Obviously I was just baiting you to make you slip how you had no idea what you were talking about, you get that right? You're free to tell me your takes any time your balls drop, but the only thing I really care about is making fun of you.

>>282210915
It's not a personal attack if people don't like the same manga you do, take it easy

>>282211251
No why does any of this matter? Why does mc need to satisfy you or you start crying?

>>282211368
Then why is little bro still here screaming about naruto and acting all uppity? Fucking kek

>>282211429
My point has always been that people who enjoy it - for example because they find the MC becomes relatable - have the right to enjoy it and people who don't - for example because they don't like the MC - have a right not to. If you read that as uppity I can't help you.
When do YOU think it would be acceptable to not like Aku no Hana? Never?

>>282211311
>ton of people even itt complaining about visuals
>b-but you're t-trolling if you think that's a genuine complaint
Then make a fresh complaint
Complaining how you didn't relate to MC isn't a real complaint btw

>>282211532
Can you give me a list of real complaints so I can check first to make sure my complaint is valid, oh judge?

>>282211527
You went really fast from screaming that the manga is bad and people should read Naruto to this pretend reasonable centrist who advocates for everyone's right to enjoy fiction as it is, all because someone pointed out you seemed like you were having a tantrum. It's so fucking funny

>>282211604
Sure, anything that isn't you just arbitrarily whining about something that's within the intention of the work

>>282211527
Bro doubled down on uppity kek

>>282211324
Yup I suspected you weren't engaging in good faith which is why I shifted the onus of making a case onto you. Never mind that there isn't a single right answer to boiling down an entire work to one point, and screeching that someone got it wrong because they didn't arrive at the same exact answer as you is pure autism. You've just been vaguely rambling about existential themes and how the MC is supposed to make the reader reflect and introspect on themselves without going into detail about what those things are and screaming that anyone who didn't like the series just didn't "get" it. It's funny that the relatability of the MC is a point of discussion in this thread because you seem to have a lot in common with him which might be why you like the manga.

>>282211376
>No why does any of this matter?
Well, generally people expect compelling character arcs.

>>282211429
>little bro
So these are the fans of this manga. Teenagers and adults who haven't grown up from that stage.

>>282211827
Of course I'm not going to engage in good faith a shitposter who hasn't even read the manga, retard. By the way, the only thing you had to do to prove you weren't just slinging shit was to start discussing the point with at least a sincere attempt, but of course that wasn't on the cards, and we both know that, so why even bother with a rodeo that's just optically damaging to you at this point?

>>282212020
>that's just optically damaging to you
I don't know if this is a lack of self-awareness, but you haven't made a good case for this manga at all.

>>282211960
>he says after having a floor-pissing tantrum

>>282212074
Trying to pretend your opponent is angry isn't an argument

>>282212057
I'm not in charge of the manga defense force or whatever, I'm just pointing out your attempts at undermining the cases boiled down to obvious shit flinging. I know it feels bad to get called out but now it's time to move on and get over it.

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>>282212138
>says the sobbing, piss-smeared man who's previous argument was calling people teenagers

>>282212145
>I'm not in charge of the manga defense force or whatever
You're sure posting like you are
>the cases boiled down to obvious shit flinging
You keep saying it's "obvious" shitposting and how "obvious" it is that people haven't read the manga in response to anything you don't like because it's easier than actually engaging with the arguments. All you had to do was say what you think the point of the manga is. Is it this?
>you personally aren't any more meaningful than these miserable people
Because if it's that, I can give an answer.

>>282212273
Because you're talking like one

>>282212334
>it's okay to point out someone sounds like a kid
>noooo you can't point out that I sound mad noo no no
Lmao

>>282212408
How do I sound mad besides you wojak posting?

>>282211922
Good thing then that isn't tied to character being likeable

>>282212436
I never said he has to be likeable as a person. I despise him as a character.

>>282212426
>?????? Challenged how?
>fucking read Naruto aiiieee
>hmph the fans of this manga are KIDS
>how am I mad tho
Fucking lmao

>>282212497
I'm not sure if thinking everyone responding to you is the same person is a sign of schizophrenia, but it's surely a sign of something.

>>282212476
All of your complaints have been that he does decisions that you don't like
I don't know how much harded I can underline the point that the fact you despise someone doesn't translate to analysis about character arcs in any meaningful way

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>>282212312
>instead of writing anything of value, please subscribe to this random opinion I scavenged from the thread, because I still can't form own opinions about something I clearly didn't read

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Aku no Hana thread once again comes to haunt our board.

>>282212538
>n-no it's not m-me
>I just jumped in the middle of a reply chain and think it isn't my responsibility to differentiate my opinions if I don't want to subscribe to what the previous guy says
KEK

what anime

>>282212810
>I still can't form own opinions about something
Are you pretending to be daft or do you still not understand? If I base my answer on my opinion, you'll just tell me that I got it wrong and derail the discussion. If you tell me what you want answered, we can discuss on the same terms. You should understand. You basically admitted as much.

>>282213004
All this yapping and still no honest opinion. Crazy how right I was about you from the get-go.

>>282213000
Boku no Baudelaire

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This level of communication breakdown can only mean one thing. Autism.

>>282213004
It's funny how desperate you seem

>>282213113
I already gave my honest opinion
>Aku no Hana's MC is a reflection of yourself
>no he isn't

>>282213765
>shitpost about a manga I didn't read is an authentic opinion
Holy cope

>>282213765
>no u
What a great opinion

>>282213803
Constantly claiming that everyone criticizing the manga hasn't read it is shitposting. You're incapable of defending your point so that's the only thing you can resort to.

>>282213908
You either don't understand what no u means or you don't understand what no he isn't means.

>>282213933
Bro really trying to pass this as critique

>>282214027
"Aku no Hana's MC is a reflection of yourself" with no further explanation is not an analysis. I can call bullshit on that. The burden of proof is on you.

>>282213910
No I'm claiming it's just you who hasn't read it, there's a big difference.
>You're incapable of defending your point so that's the only thing you can resort to
Ironic coming from a guy who has been here for hours and hasn't verbalized a point. My point was that you're a shitposter and will not do such thing, thanks for continuously proving me right.

>>282214094
>b-burden of p-proof
Little bro thinking people need to prove the prevalent and self evident reading
Sasuga someone who didn't read the mango

>>282214094
>Aku no Hana's MC is a reflection of yourself
Didn't say that, I said it does the same thing as The Fall
You don't need to find him relatable to mirror the themes at all
Just go home bub, you're like a fucking piñata at this point

>>282210553
Damn. Brutal. Did they think it would match the tone better or what?

>>282214133
>>282214298
>No I'm claiming it's just you who hasn't read it
Well I've seen plenty of other posts in this thread claiming other people haven't read it.
>Ironic coming from a guy who has been here for hours and hasn't verbalized a point
All you said is that it holds a mirror to yourself with no further explanation of how it does that. By your logic, you're the one who hasn't read the manga since you can't explain anything specific about it.
>My point was that you're a shitposter
You literally admitted you weren't engaging in good faith. You are the shitposter which I rightfully called you out on.
>You don't need to find him relatable to mirror the themes at all
So how does it hold a mirror to my face?

>>282214222
If it's so self-evident, it should be easy to explain, yet you can't do that.

>>282214620
Honest question, what did you think was going to happen here after I told you I'm in it to just make fun of you? Did you really think there would be some epic point in the future where you somehow analytically turn this around?

>>282214650
Little bro really this desperate to be spoonfed

>>282214620
You're conflating posters
Also the only thing you need to do is read the fucking manga, how is that so hard for you

>>282214666
Well I exposed you as a shitposter and showed that no one in this thread can make a good argument for the merits of the writing, so there's that. Just another pretentious you didn't "get" it.

>>282214650
Lil' fella still thinking someone needs to "explain" him the ending

>>282214737
I already read it. I do not want to read it again.

>>282214762
Who said anything about the ending?

>>282214784
>lil bro doesn't know the points get spelled out in the end
OH NO NO NO

>>282214741
Great fucking expose, since I've from the get go said I'm not going to treat you seriously unless you can make an actual point. It's also really fucking funny that you chose to shadow box me specifically and not the people who are actually arguing about the plot of the manga. You're such a dishonest coward.

>>282214764
Evidently not

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>mwf waiting for the next multi-you reply from a retard who didn't read the manga and surgically avoids all grounded points to solely comment on how someone called him a poopoo head before

>>282215042
>mfw browsing catalog and finding a retard "waiting" to argue with someone else in a random thread
you sound like a fucking retard

getting filtered by a story revolving around the idea that asocial 15 year-old pseuds latch onto stuff like Baudelaire as as a coping mechanism while browsing /a/ is come crazy stuff, you'd actually have to be dumb as rocks

>>282215107
At least I didn't project like this kek

>>282214856
>you chose to shadow box me specifically
I made posts before that which actually mentions plot points. I was trying to get you to expound on holding a mirror to yourself.

>>282215345
>I was trying to argue you by yapping about nothing
Ok retard.

>>282215345
>I was trying to get you to expound on holding a mirror to yourself
You just said "no" even though we've now established you had no fucking clue what you're even talking about. Very honest way to engage things, retard.

i watched this once and found it very interesting, i really liked it and how nakamura basically just bullied him. it was kind of disturbing, especially with the art direction. but that's what i liked about it. scenes like when they painted the classroom felt cathartic to me. and i relate to how perverted the mc feels and nakamura's influence, trying to make him embrace that pervertedness. it's weird but i like it.

>>282215443
>You just said "no"
Because it didn't for me. Now it's up to you to support your claim on how it does. You can claim that I'm refusing it because it's uncomfortable or I'm setting up walls but the truth is I didn't resonate with it at all.

>>282215513
Obviously because you didn't read the manga, we established this already.

>>282210174
This
>>282210553
It's actually an improvement

>>282215503
I recommend reading it. It's pretty good and not too long.

>>282208063
>>282208414
>>282215143
See we agree that the MC is an unlikable, stupid teenage pseud who makes terrible decisions, but at a certain point, the story and I think you will disagree with me. All of his ideals and values are empty and vapid. Nakamura is just a crazy bitch and nothing about the connection he has with her is real or meaningful. His desire for genuineness and specialness is just him being an angsty, pretentious kid. But even after the timeskip he never really acknowledges it. He's still nostalgic for and longs for that time and misses Nakamura. When he finally meets Nakamura again, it's portrayed as a cathartic moment.

Stuggling to live authenticly, balancing acting out your ugliest parts and being part of a society, deviancy and feeling understood and connected with another human, sexual desires and confusion, giving yourself up for an ideal, haunting memories and striving to overcome them your trauma and your disappointment.
All these are very human struggles the manga touches upon. You can personally not relate to anything and not like the work. That's completely fine. What's idiotic is dismissing people that like this sort of thing and can relate as immature and problematic. Accept people can like different things and move on. You're most likely not some arbiter of taste and quality when lots of people consider this an entertaining and thought provoking story.

>>282210553
holy fuck it's disgusting

>>282210553
These are considered 10/10 in Japan nippon

Never watched the anime but this is a top tier manga.
People that don't like it exist of course, but people whining how they couldn't get into and shit on it are clearly butthurt because they see people praising it but their reality doesn't align with it and it makes them feel bad.
Thus they feel the need to cry about it.

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>>282207240
>character looks like the average japanese
>everyone said he's ugly
Kek

>>282219980
The problem is the lack of shading. He looks like he has no nose but average japs have huge bulbous noses.

>>282210553
both are good

>>282210174
Nigger it's shit

>>282210553
>it really is a shame what they did.
That's just what japanese people look like. They aren't anime characters.

say something nice about his newer mangas