Was Cell Saga peak Dragon Ball?
>>282237770Yes
>>282237770Yes.
It's a fucking mess, you can see all the retcons play out in real time.
>>282237770No, and it's not a matter of retcon but Namek and Saiyans are just so much betterEven Buu, actually
Saiyan arc is Namek and Android can fight for the 2nd place
>>282237770The TRUE ending of Dragon Ball btw.Saiyan = Cell>>>>>>>>>Namek>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu.
>>282237770No, it's dogshit.
>>282237770No. It's pretty awful and annoying, and Cell is a ridiculously lame villain.>>282238398This, basically.
>>282238613Cell is the weakest DB arc but the ending really saves it in a lot of ways.
>>282237770Yup, it was cool to see almost every Z fighter to get a cool moment, a shame that every arc afterwards do not go off by this. When the Z fighters said their goodbyes that shit hit hard.
>>282238647All they do is job or pad out the arc
The Cell arc expanded upon Super Saiyan instead of throwing of it away for another form. 'Super Saiyan 2¨' was just perfected Super Saiyan, that was only for Gohan.
>>282238689>All they do is job or pad out the arcBut enough about Namek and Buu.It's funny that you mention padding out, because the Cell arc is the longest arc in the series yet feels far shorter due to things actually happeing instead of characters waiting for shit.
>>282238647>see almost every Z fighter to get a cool moment>Yamcha does nothing>Krillin does nothing>Chiaotzu and Yajirobe aren't even considered part of the team anymore>Future Trunks becomes completely useless as a character after he kills Frieza (something which Goku was already about to do)
>>282238695The Buu didn't throw the Super Saiyan state away, either.
>>282238630My unpopular opinion is that had Goku been the one to beat Cell, the arc would’ve been viewed in a significantly worse light, which only goes to show that how something ends is way more important (to the audience) than what happens in-between I mean hell, even Goku flying off with Uub at the end of the Buu arc still seems to be better than 90% of shonen endings, seeing as how that ending doesn’t evoke the same assblast as said other shonen, allowing Dragon Ball to maintain a strong legacy
>>282238720>see almost every Z fighter to get a cool momentYeah notice how I said ALMOST every Z fighter, the fact you can only make a case for Krillin being shafted and not the others says a lot in favor for the Cell arc kek.>>282238740>SS2, SS3, Ultimate, Fusion?
>>282238718>happeingWhy do esls always have the shittiest and most embarrassing opinions imaginable?
I partially view the Android Arc as the arc where Tienfags desperately try to glaze their jobber
>>282237770The retarded character decisions genuinely piss me off. The stupidity from Goku and Vegeta can be semi justified by saiyan monkey brain, but Krillin not using the remote because of a cheek kiss is shit writing. Dragon ball was pretty tightly written before cell/Androids.
>>282238764>No argument>Ad hominem
>>282238753>My unpopular opinion is that had Goku been the one to beat Cell, the arc would’ve been viewed in a significantly worse lightHow is that unpopular? Having Gohan beat Cell was probably one of the most unanimously good decisions in that arc.Retcons were a bit bad for the arc but the worst part was the clunky sense of progression that really only relied on the heroes messing up. It's not like Buu where things had more meaning (even if the heroes screwed up twice with Gotenks and Gohan getting absorbed)
>>282238718>NamekKek, Krillin actually does stuff that matters throughout the Namek arc. In the Cell arc he's too scared to fight the androids and then he fails to destroy the remote to kill 18. That's all he does. Same with Gohan. He's actually active throughout the whole arc instead of randomly being part of the final battle when he hasn't done anything for the rest of the arc like in the Cell Games.
>>282238764Namek had>Krillin>Gohan>Piccolo>Vegeta>Goku>Kaio/Kami/Guru>Dende/NailAll play an important part to the winThis is very different from Cell (the endgame was just to take Gohan to the RoSaT) or Buu (new cast got to do fun stuff, old cast got shafted but it's okay)
>>282238753Goku found another pure hearted individual just like himself. Kid Buu was a monster but he was just going by instinct just like Goku. It reminds me of how Roshi compared him to animal when he was a kid. Goku’s story is endless. He always want to improve and grow stronger. It gives the feeling of him going on a new adventure. Also DB didn’t really care for extreme world building or twists, which is what a lot of people dislike about Nardo and bleach’s endings
>>282238835Meant for >>282238718>>282238783Thankfully Buu made it good again by keeping some of the dumb decisions (less) but making the arc comedic
>>282238827>Krillin actually does stuff that matters throughout the Namek arcLetting two Dragon Balls get stolen away from him due to breaking his own rule of not using super speed? He is so useless that had to be bailed out from fucking Guldo after getting his potenial unlocked, a person might say he helped stall Freeza, but it didn't matter later on due to Freeza having another form. Both him and Gohan were useless to the point it makes you wonder why they were even there to begin with.
I can can never unsee how Gohan is genuinely absent for 99% of the Cell saga, he saves Piccolo from Gero and then he’s basically out to lunch up until he fights Cell proper
>>282238835>>282238871Only Goku and Bejita moved the story forward, Piccolo and his fusion with was also fucking useless, unlike his fight in the anime, he barely does anything against second form Freeza, him even coming to Namek undermines Gohan's own journey. Buu and Namek are were side characters have it the worst.
>>282238762Anon more than half of the Z cast does nearly nothing throughout the entire Cell arc, including Future Trunks and Gohan.Compare that to the Namek arc, where all of the "good" characters present (Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta) are constantly active and do something to move the plot forward. You're a tasteless and deluded moron with shit taste.
>>282238783Yeah, the shit people criticize and make fun of dragon ball mainly occur in Cell and Buu where Toriyama was clearly getting burnt out. Honestly pre Cell, the only cheap asspull I can think of are zenkai boosts but hey every battle shonen has em. That’s another thing, these power boosts disappeared for all of the cell arc until conveniently Cell gets one at the end so he can match up better with SS2 Gohan
>>282238871>>282238908You're retarded. Read the arc again. Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta all managed to move the arc forward and the arc drastically changes without them because the endgame wasn't just to beat someone but also to get the Dragon Ball. Remove Krillin and this is a bad ending.
>>282238871He saved Gohan from Dodoria twice you retard. He then also managed to save Gohan from 2nd form Frieza.
>>282238922>Compare that to the Namek arc>>282238871>>282238908>>282238922>more than half of the Z cast does nearly nothing throughout the entire Cell arcThis is a straight up lie.
Cell being able to regenerate limbs should also allow him to regenerate his cellular composition so he doesn’t need to use senzu beans. You could use this to replace THAT Goku scene
>>282238949Literally the end goal there. He redeemed himself for losing a ball earlier.
>>282238778Tien is probably the most overrated DBZ character, genuinelyThis one single moment hard carries the FUCK out of him despite the fact that it comes out of literally nowhere and not a single character actually brings up that one time he manages to stall a dude leagues above his weight class
>>282238977Saved Vegeta's life btwStalling counts, but getting Vegeta out of the way of a deadly blast even more
>>282238949>Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta all managed to move the arc forwardWhy are you adding those two with Vegeta? He killed Dodoria, and Zarbon actively went around Namek and collected Dragon Balls, he is the main reason why the Dragon Balls was taken back, what did Krillin and Gohan do that was anywhere near this?>>282238952And then let a Dragon Ball get stolen amazing work.
It genuinely annoys me seeing the Z fighters cry over Cell about to destroy the world when these idiots are the reason it’s come to this in the first place. You morons deserved to die.
>>282239001He lost one Dragon Ball but Gohan stole the 7th so it didn't matter at all in the end (other than letting Vegeta know they were there). What mattered was >>282238977He got Gohan to catch up which allowed them to survive Freeza 2 in the first place
>>282239001Hahaha, I just remembered Gohan and Krillin couldn't even defeat a nerfed Ginyu and Bejtia had to beat him for them HAHAHAHAHAHA
>BejitaDidn’t the jannies finally start cleaning up your shitpost general already?
>>282238908>Only Goku and Bejita moved the story forwardGohan was the one who saved Dende through which they met with Guru, which was only possible because Krillin saved him after he jumped Dodoria. Nail was also the one who managed to stall Frieza while Goku and co. we're fighting Jeice.>Piccolo and his fusion with was also fucking uselessYou mean like how him fusing with Kami didn't achieve anything, because his first fight with Cell didn't accomplish anything and he also couldn't save 17 from getting absorbed?
>>282239033Literally kept saving the arc over and over againStorydump anons kept calling him the MVP for good reason
People’s remembrance of teen Gohan comes from nostalgia and the anime. Toei gave him a lot more development here. In the manga, he feels like a straight up plot device and you’ll never convince me his whole pacifist spiel against Cell was in character. It felt like something Toriyama just put together
>>282239033>He lost one Dragon Ball but Gohan stole the 7thAnd then he wasted six days with the little kid and for no fucking reason told Gohan they should use ki to fly despite KNOWING Bejita can sense their ki. Then their Dragon Ball was taken away from Bejita, and stolen from the Ginyu force instead of keeping the one in secret while waiting for Goku.
>>282239036How about you read the manga instead of watching the anime, retard?>>282239054Same goes for you faggot. There was no pacifist spiel. All he said was "maybe we shouldn't fight" and the very next scene he WANTED to get angry and stronger but couldn't manifest it out of thin air. Right before Cell kills 16 he was already near his breaking point.
>>282237770The low point of the series.
>>282239052>Dende through which they met with GuruAnd they Krillin let the Dragon Ball get stolen due to flying like a retard despite knowing Bejita can sense his ki.>You mean likeSo you admit it was pointless? See?
>>282239067Being found at the end by Vegeta was meaningless. If anything, going faster was the better choice in the long run because they got Gohan to powerup before the Ginyus got there. They would have been found with these "cutting edge scouters" according to Vegeta.
>>282239001If it wasn't for Krillin Recoome would've killed Vegeta, retard.
>>282239077>Posts Bejita asking a questionIs this meant to make your case better? Goku told Gohan and Krillin not to hold back, we have no reason to think otherwise. So they failed to beat up a nerfed character despite getting a power boost prior to this kek.
Only Gohan and Trunks fans think Androids/Cell is "peak" or whatever. True scholars know that the contender for best arcs are>King Piccolo>23rd Tenkaichi Budokai>Saiyan>Frieza/Namek (why the different naming?)
>>282239115Also, if not for the Ginyu force, Vegeta was losing right there to Gohan/Krillin/Nail.>>282239120>"Bejita"You're the DBStard aren't you? I'm not even arguing with you faggot.
>>282239115>Being found at the end by Vegeta was meaninglessNo it wasn't, if they had sneaked to the Grand elders house, they could have waited for Goku while Bejita would have been fucked by the Ginyu force.>>282239117Krillin got one shot right after and Gohan was beaten to death, and they had to be bailed out by Goku.
>>282239149>No argumentI accept your concession.
>>282239150>afterConcession accepted, retard.He saved Vegeta's life and this avoided the arc ending badly. Simple as that. Just like he saved Gohan's life three times at least, which means he saved the arc 3 other times as well.>>282239129>Frieza/Namek (why the different naming?)"Frieza" arc is for brainlets who see the arc only through the Frieza fight instead of the entire Namek guerilla
>>282239179>Concession accepted, retard.Are you retarded? His 'save' didn't matter when him and Gohan were about to die right after, are you saying it was better for Bejita to be alive and Gohan and Krillin to be dead???????
You know who else saved the arc? This chadNamek was just on another level in terms of plot progression. Saiyans had a great sense of progression during the Vegeta raid but Namek did that with plot.
>>282239193If he didn't save Vegeta there, then Gohan and Krillin might (or might not) have survived but they end up killed by Jeece and Freeza wins.Saving Vegeta right there was the best call. He didn't know that yet, he just had a sense that they needed to keep their ally alive. And he was right in the long run.
>>282239198>Blows up the scouters>Six days Freeza gets new ones anywayWoah...that sure mattered...Also this is retarded, it would have added more TENSION had the scouters not been broken to begin with, so this is a dumb move by Tori.>>282239221>then Gohan and Krillin might (or might not) have survivedHuh???Gohan got his neck broken right after WTF are you on about?
A thing about Namek as well is also the fact that Zenkai boost is such a shitty plot device, Bejita had like three over the course of Namek and was only above Third form Freeza, yet Goku getting injured once in Namek took the guy from being 90k to equal to Final form Freeza.
>>282239237>Woah...that sure mattered...You're a complete retard. Freeza not having scouter is the only reason the Earthlings and Vegeta were able to operate without getting found and killed for these 6 days. That's also how Guru escaped detection for that crucial period of time, and Guru dying means bad ending to the arc.>Gohan got his neck broken right after WTF are you on about?Goku saved them so they survived all three thanks to Krillin and Gohan saving Vegeta.Had Krillin and Gohan not saved Vegeta, then either the Ginyus play with them long enough for Goku to save the two of them... or not (and they all die), but either way without Vegeta to clean up Jeece afterwards they all die. Bad ending.I can't stress it enough: you're a fucking retard.
Even the first half could have easily been thrown out and nothing would have changed really, the arc starts with Freeza having the most Dragon Balls, by the time the Ginyu force arrives Freeza has the most Dragon Balls. Dodoria and Zarbon are also forgettable jobbers.
Buu > Cell for the sole fact that the premise of the Cell arc is genuinely nonsensical, what are Future Goku and the others even doing while Gohan and Trunks are getting their asses beat by some teenagers for about 20 years?
>>282239285>Freeza not having scouter is the only reason the Earthlings and Vegeta were able to operate without getting found and killed for these 6 daysNope, the two other factions can control their ki, them having to avoid the scouters would have been great, too bad they were removed for little to no reason.>Goku saved them so they survived all three thanks to Krillin and Gohan saving Vegeta.Are you a bot?
>>282239271>90k to equal to Final form FreezaHe's using Kaioken x10 and he wasn't feeling too bad about Freeza's second form, even third. If you look at the story levels rather than the numbers, that Zenkai gave him a jump from "maybe 3rd form?" to "maybe 4th form?".>>282239298Mongoloid hours
Not to mention Freeza having multiple transformations ready whenever he was cornered, before this Bejita only had a single transformation, but we jumped to fucking four.
>>282239321It takes them 5 days to go to Guru's place if they fly while hiding their ki you mouthbreathing faggot. Freeza having no scouters means they can get the balls before him and Guru doesn't die. Freeza with scouters finds Guru immediately and the arc ends right there. You're either underage or 70 IQ.
>>282239350He was never really cornered. He started basically in 2nd form, 1st fought for 2 pages and wasn't cornered. 2nd form was only matched by Piccolo, 3rd was strong enough to kill them all and he chose to go 4th just to make their despair complete.
>>282239325>He's using Kaioken x10Not when he was fighting Freeza, Goku only used it later when Freeza used his half power. >>282239360>It takes them 5 days to go to Guru's place if they fly while hiding their ki youWhy do they need to go to the Grand elder, if they could go to other villages before Bejita and Freeza? Is that the only place they are allowed to go if scouters were not broken? Boring faggot.
>>282239384>He was never really corneredHe was stalemated by Bejita in his first form.Piccolo beat his ass in his second form.Gohan made him worried in his third form.
it’s like saying bejita instead of vegeta dumbs the brain down by 20 IQ points, no wonder you guys have to camp out in /ghost/ these days
>He is crying
Tenshitjob.
>>282239398>Not when he was fighting FreezaHe always was. Don't try to make sense of numbers, they're retarded. He jumped from "3rd" to "4th".>Why do they need to go to the Grand elder, if they could go to other villages before Bejita and Freeza? Is that the only place they are allowed to go if scouters were not broken? Boring faggot.Freeza goes to the Elder to get passwordHe kills him eventuallyBad endingIt's that simple, you're retarded>>282239420He was still winning in any of these"Bejita" (go back to /dbs/, retard) was more exhausted than he was during their brief exchangePiccolo was confident after throwing his weights but Freeza had won the previous exchange so it was at least a close matchPic related. Third form Freeza would have killed them all
>>282239468unrelated but is there a way to read the manga with both pages side by side like this, or do you just splice them together each time?
>>282237770Nah. It was the start of massive character stupidity being the only reason the arc keeps going on.>>282238783You forgot that Bulma almost gets herself and baby Trunks killed.
>>282239468>He [HEADCANON]We are only told he uses Kaioken when Freeza used his half power, that's when we have that scene of Tien saying Goku has Kaioken times 10 but Kaio tells him Goku is already using it.>He was [HEADCANON]He was forced to transform every time except the first one, and it was still by a Bejita who had not slept lol.>Freeza goes to the Elder to get password>He kills him eventuallyNo reason to happen.
>>282239504You can use Honeyview and set double page. Just make sure to activate it on a page that is on the "right" in the actual volume so you get the next page on the left rather than picking a "left" page to be the starting one and getting the next "right" page to your left.
>and it was still by a Bejita who had not slept lol.wasn’t “””””bejita””””” napping as gohan and krillin snuck off with the dragon balls behind his back
>>282239522>We are only told he uses Kaioken when Freeza used his half power, that's when we have that scene of Tien saying Goku has Kaioken times 10 but Kaio tells him Goku is already using it.Your headcanon is that Goku only uses it against 50% Freeza, but it's never supported anywhere. We only know he's already using it against 50% Freeza, not that he wasn't before.>He was forced to transform every time except the first one, and it was still by a Bejita who had not slept lol.Retard.>No reason to happen.No reason for it not to happen. At the very least, Freeza getting to the Elder means the Earthlings can't get the password themselves. It's fucking over no matter what if he gets there before them.
>/dbs/fag getting assraped Genuinely cathartic
>>282239553This nigger has never read the manga. Maybe the mods killing /dbs/ was a good thing. Or maybe not, because they migrated to regular discussion threads.
>>282239468>>282239542This is the current Kanzenban scanlationhttps://nyaa.si/view/1255002There actually is new effort to combine the incredible new Seed of Might Kanzenban scan with a good English translation>We check all the existing translation options and pick the best one. We also have a few translators to assist and ensure accuracy.>If accuracy is important to you, I recommend you join the group to assist.https://x.com/TuxedoTimeMangahttps://bsky.app/profile/tuxedotime.bsky.social
>>282239573>Your headcanon is that Goku only uses it against 50% FreezaYou mean the manga?This is right after Freeza used his half power.>At the very least, Freeza getting to the Elder means the Earthlings can't get the password themselvesHe did that in canon, and they still had the password.
>>282239640Do you know what "already" means? Do you know how English works?
>>282239542>>282239625thanks lads
>>282239657Do you? Tien says Goku as Kaioken times 10 to use against half power Freeza and Kaio says he is ALREADY using it, how is basic english so hard for you?
>>282239640>He did that in canon, and they still had the password.Because he let Dende go, which he wouldn't have done at any point before that. He had the 7 balls and all his opponents had been defeated and (probably) killed. That password only helped them because they were able to snatch the 7 balls back in that very small window of time they had an opportunity to work with.This entire arc hinges upon minute details. Change anything and the house of cards tumbles down, or at least doesn't look remotely similar. Namek is peak, simple as.
>>282239698>Because he let Dende goAnd why would he not do the same in this scenario? Now you are just making Freeza act out of character just to make a point.
>>282239684Do you need help? Should I use /dbs/ idioms to describe to you what "already" and "before" mean? Should I get """Bejita""" to explain it to you?
>>282239722>He doesn't understand basic englishAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
>>282237770I think the anime version of the arc is the best arc, but that’s because it probably has the best filler while the other arcs (especially Namek, goddamnn all that padding) suffer to different extents from the filler
>>282239720>And why would he not do the same in this scenario? Now you are just making Freeza act out of character just to make a point.i'm not even going to say anything at that pointjust posting manga panels and watching you get raped in public
>>282239736>i'm not even going to say anything at that pointI accept your concession.
The great /dbs/ rape
it’s funny that concessionfagging is all /dbs/tards can do now that their circlejerk got torched by the staff
Another thing that sucks ass about Namek is the fact Freeza is a lazy villain who doesn't even try to work for his fucking wish, this guy has both of his henchmen die and just sits on his ass while waiting for the Ginyu force, instead of getting rest of the Dragon Balls.
MODS = GODS
Bulma as well had no reason to be on the planet, she acted like the pilot and that was it.
>>282239792He had basically no opportunity to make any difference since he can't sense Ki. He'd just be flying around the planet erratically and trying to make a difference but he wouldn't have much more luck than any of his soldiers.
Namek as a whole is the most bland location in all of Dragon Ball, if you saw the planet Bejita and Nappa were at it looked interesting and unique fuck even Freeza's space station where Bejita rested looked cool, except we got reverse color Earth.
>>282239823>He had basically no opportunity to make any differenceWho could stop him? If becoming immortal was such a big deal, surely you would get up from your ass instead of letting Vegeta have most of the Dragon Balls.
>reverse the sky and grass>make the most iconic alien planet in animeGODiyama
>>282239873He remained calm and did everything he could. He wouldn't have been more efficient than his soldiers in searching the entire planet. He waited for the Ginyus and it worked, flawlessly, he got the 7 balls. He just didn't trust Ginyu to get the password for him and didn't expect anyone to be able to defeat Ginyu AND make a wish.
Every Namekian being a good guy was also pretty fucking gay, majority of them being farmers and peaceful people was a big dissapointment, Nail being the biggest one.
The best arc in shonen. Simple as.
>>282239901Again so he's a lazy villain, if you like that, cool but I find it to be very lame.
>>282239917The only time when his laziness changed anything was him sending Dodoria after Krillin and Gohan, and they were insects. It's a very understandable decision. After that there was nothing he would have changed by getting his hands dirty since he had no scouters and no ways of bruteforcing his way through.
The plot power ups were almost buu tier in terms of how lazy they were, Krillin all of a sudden knows that Goku get's Zenkai boost even though we have no proof of this, even against Tamborine the reason he lost was just due to him being tired, the second he ate food he beat him with utter ease. Gohan and Krillin getting their potential unlocked did not matter one bit, nor did it help them, they lost every single time against Guldo and Recoome, they could not even beat Ginyu.
Oh yeah now I remember, the SHIT anime randomly had Ginyu get stronger while in Goku’s body over time, while this wasn’t a thing in the manga
>>282240021>randomly had Ginyu get stronger while in Goku’s body over timeThe anime had Ginyu get better control of Goku's better, what was more funny was the fact that Goku in Ginyu's body had to step in due to Gohan and Krillin getting their ass kicked by him.
>>282240021>>282240040and this is why the anime fucking sucks, for every “good” bit of filler people like to glaze there’s cubic tons of other crap that only makes the story flow significantly worse
Namek was by far the most awkward arc for Goku in terms of his role, you would think the only main characters would have been Bejita, Gohan and Krillin, but Goku also had to appear, he comes to save them once and is taken out only for them to be the main character and beat Freeza once and for all. The very same thing could be said about Piccolo as well.
>>282238762>>282238922The Cell arc's greatest crime is focusing so much on Gohan for the climax but ultimately having him be completely irrelevant to the arc itself.Gohan is not involved in any pre-Cell fights.He does not see the Artificial Humans awaken.He is actively prevented from going out to fight.His only real engagement with any narrative thrust is him going with Trunks to look at the other time machine.He doesn't even meet the antagonist until the final stretch of the arc, and he never even MET #17 or #18. The first time he sees #18 is when Cells throws her up onto the ground, and he never meets #17 even once throughout the entirety of the manga.And this is DESPITE Toriyama making him the man who basically raised Mirai Trunks, like how Piccolo brought up Gohan into the man he is by that point in the future. Despite the fact that Gohan died to #17 and #18. Despite the fact that Gohan's lost arm MIRRORS where he gets injured when defending Vegeta in the fight with Cell. The Cell arc feels incredibly half baked in regards to its characters, and Gohan is just the biggest example. of that.
Cell is the personification of Goku and Tensh- ehhh never mind
>>282239940You're right. I can actually smell his specific brand of autism
>>282240149>The Cell arc's greatest crime is focusing so much on Gohan for the climax but ultimately having him be completely irrelevant to the arc itself.Yeah, I understand that, he still did save Piccolo from Gero, really all I would change is have Gohan be with Piccolo and the others and have Krillin take Bulma and Yajirobe away. I like the way Legacy of Goku 2 did this by having Gohan be there up to Imperfect Cell.
broyamcha jobbed btw
>>282240234Maybe even show off he has Super Saiyan or have him unlock it briefly against the twins in the group fight.
>>282237770>>282233645
>>282239736TANKED btw
>>282237770Yea
>>282240266>Four HOUR thread
>282239802>forever cleaning Kai boothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AWhT3Z91xE
>>282240266>dying slow general threadNever.
>>282240266Toriyama's death really killed that place huh?
>>282240306Daima + the spam after it.
>>282240353>the spam after it.What kinda?
>>282240306I dunno the full details (if someone wants to fill in), but I’ve heard the mods finally started putting the boot on all the rampant shitposting in there, like you ever checked those threads in desuarchive? Each thread seems to have hundreds of posts that are just in there, and it’s pure schizo rambling
>>282240380It was a sinking ship anyway, let it finally die.
>>282237770No. The arc started out great but fell apart when it became about finding the new Super Saiyan form to beat Cell. Grade 1 and 2 were atrocious. Roided Vegeta having an agonizing constipation screaming contest with the others was just too much. Powerlevels/powercreep, screaming and endless transformations were the worst part of Z, and the Cell Saga had a lot of it.Then the arc ended with both Goku and Gohan being massive retards on the level of Vegeta, solidifying it as shit.
>>282241163>Goku and Gohan being massive retardsNo.The senzu didn't change anything (if anything it was in their favor).Gohan was sadistic and full of rage, not retarded.
Well, then she had no business being a part of the crew, there was no time to teach her, and there was no place for amatheurs inside that ship. Oh, we all saw how patient Pan was, as soon as things became shaky, she started crying and asking someone to save her...
Goku died at the end of GT, Goten was obviously the one to inherit the title, because of not only how powerful he was, but also of how special of her person he was. Mr. Satan's "dojo", was more like a circus than a real dojo, Pan only went there to vent, and about the other side of the family? Yes, maybe Goku taught her how to fly, but he left a few days after that, never to be seen again until the beginning of GT, and the rest of her family, we all know that Pan spends all her free time verbally attacking her family, so I doubt that they ever managed to teach her anything.
Goten is on a different plane of existence, there's no way that someone like the Announcer or Pan could even see beyond of what Goten allows them to see.Goten was seen carrying his luggage towards the ship, this proves that he really did want to embark on the space mission, this is a hard fact. Pan on the other hand, thought that the space mission was a fun game, and immediately started crying and moaning when the ship malfunctioned.
>>282241488>GTI get angry thinking about it because there are so many small changes you could make to create a great sequel.
What duties? Goku is under no obligation to give her money for sugary drinks.Pan never did any of those things, she only pretended to clean the ship, so that Goku had to perform all the real tasks, this just a small demonstration of Pan's mind games...Pan's presence prevented Goku from eliminating Baby, if Goten had been there, Baby would have been eliminated on the spot.
But Pan never kept her word either, she knew Goku was going to save her, just like that old man...Pan's kick was so strong that it made all the sensors malfuntion right before launching, it was impossible for them to detect it. Why? Because Pan launched the ship before time, before the computer could perform one final check.I agree, Pan was a pseudo leader, Trunks and Goku knew that it was better for everyone to just let her talk and think that she was in charge... Pan spent a lot of time in isolation because she's impossible to deal with and not because she needs time to think, which is something she doesn't appear to do that much...
Hmm, Raditz told Goku that he was his brother, that was more or less two seconds? But I don't think that really matters for something as irrelevant as Shin and Kibito defusing, it really doesn't interfere with the story, right?The OG story ended in 1995/96, not 97. I think Super may just end within the end of Z... GT's ending was just a what if ending...Oh yeah? Then how do you explain Goten being a Super Saiyan, while a certain someone never managed to become one? We can clearly see who is the more tallented successor...Girus is not the one to blame here, Goten would have stopped those rockets, just like Goku, Trunks and even Giru were able to do...
Bulma gained access to Dr. Gero's files on the artificial humans, that's the reason why she managed to make that controller, she had all the information available, and it is known that the artificial humans have artificial energy generators that are impossible to be detected by martial artists, because that energy is not natural.What, she forced him??? And you're telling me that Dende was arrogant? We all know who the arrogant and disrespectful person was.Did Rildo really consume metal, maybe Giru was the only one who did it, because of him just being an actual robot? Giru never really was a threat...
>>282237770>HAVE SENZU BEAN CERU SAMA I WANT YOU TO HAVE A GOOD FIGHT
Ah, I see, so Giru, really did save Pan, who was powerless against the star's weak gravity pull.No, the ship was travelling at high speed, because of the star's gravity causing it accelerate forward, Trunks had to stop, so that Pan could slowly fly toward him, while Giru's cable continued to extend.
Let them moan, they can't win.... Maybe that's a good idea...
>>282241619>>282241656what the hell is going on
>>282240149Saying ALL of that though, and ignoring that the only truly fleshed out Cell arc characters are Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks, the themes of the arc work really well, even with Toriyama's rushing to change things.Goku fights Gero and #19, literally old age and fat. They absorb Goku's energy and negate his efforts- like how they absorb the energies of other characters viewed by the narrative as the "adults", like Yamucha and Piccolo. Vegeta is able to beat the fat #19, but the old Gero escapes, and he unleashes the INFINITE ENERGY of youth, who decimate this aging group of adults. That youth is then absorbed by Cell, who is a twisted replica of Goku, someone who takes in all these other fighters techniques but only desires perfection, whereas Goku desired to find the next strongest opponent. This is where Gohan, Trunks, Vegeta, and Goku become relevant.To fight this creature, Vegeta trains with Trunks but focuses only on himself, and both him and Trunks lose, with both failures being a direct result of their inability to cooperate and both not wanting to harm Vegeta's (the father's) pride.Goku on the other trains focusing on Gohan, and the final acts of the arc treat him as someone who has seen beyond the truth of this reality. What then occurs is thus:Gohan surpasses everyone, including Goku and Vegeta, defeating Cell.Trunks is killed by Cell.Vegeta helplessly watches his son die, and is then forced to do something his pride hates- intruding on another man's battle to achieve a group victory.Goku sacrifices himself for his son, the complete opposite of Vegeta here. And thus, Goku has fully surpassed Vegeta.There is a lot going on in Cell, but at the same time, so much of it is half-cocked.
>>282242030The theme of the arc is fatherhood and creation. Gero is betrayed by his creations, and his final creation takes everything for itself and aimlessly goes to destroy everything for personal pride. Meanwhile Gohan can succeed and overcome that as Goku's son, receiving his father's support and training, and he was his father's biggest pride.
>>282242030>>282242101It’s really niche but I unironically like “literary” analyses of things like shonen, I feel like it’s rare to actually see takes similar to these in a way that isn’t being deliberately ironic
>>282242218Sincerity isn't dead despite the internet's best attempts to kill it
>>282242218That's mostly because the overlap of battle manga is more with pro wrestling and video games that with literature. Most people can hardly analyze these works and don't see a point in doing so.
I think it would've made a great ending, given Goku's development as a character and father.Goku had a near death experience against the Androids, and not from fighting like usual. In Trunks timeline, he just fucking died of some illness like a normal person would. It turns out that even as a perfect Super Saiyan, even after defeating Freeza, he was still not invulnerable. It makes sense that after he gets cured, he pushes Gohan to surpass him one day...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2_OXZGzm1E
>>282242366>I think it would've made a great ending, given Goku's development as a character and father.Toriyama wanted the series to end with Cell but was forced to continue due to his editors
Bejita could NEVER
>>282237770The latter half of the Saiyan Saga and the first half of the Namek Saga are the peak of DBZ for me.
>>282242409I think that's wrong according to the last interview about Toriyama we got, he just went with whatever was funny. Or at least the part about him wanting Gohan to replace Goku but folding to the fanbase, that's 100% bullshit
>>282242335>Most people can hardly analyze these worksthat makes it sound like pro wrestling is akin to an epic
>>282241735Pan-chan is cute and funny
>>282239792>>282239823Frieza's trip to Namek was basically doomed from the start since you needed a Namekian to summon Porunga
>>282242580Yep. But only because Namekians were so proud they'd rather die than help him. Can't say the same about Saiyans, at least one of them would fold.
>>282242562>>282242528
>>282242623Would that imply they still had to force him? It's kind of ambiguous.
>>282242409There's no statement from Toriyama on Cell being the ending. The only talked about endpoints are>"Around a year in" (about 50~ chapters)>"It will go on for a bit longer" (at the end of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai)>"Maybe we should've ended it there" (post-hoc interview in regards to the Freeza arc)
>>282242639>Would that imply they still had to force him?Yeah, if they have to talk him into making something more lighthearted with Mr Satan.
Still the coolest line up of the cast this shot alone is what people remember when you mention DBZ. I really gotta say, the coloring of Toriyama is so good man.
>>282242601Nappa: That mean he doesn’t have penis, right Vegeta?
>>282242714Too bad he's so bad at handling his own cast because most of them are irrelevant
>>282241163>Grade 1 and 2 were atrocious. Roided Vegeta having an agonizing constipation screaming contest with the others was just too much.In fairness I like them BECAUSE they’re big bulky pieces of inefficient shit in-universe, the twist being that the actual strongest Super Saiyan 1 form just being the result of training away the flaws like the stamina drain is cool
>>282242452I really like facial expressions in Dragon Ball, like Toriyama drew Frieza here with the perfect blend of smugness and confusion.
>>282244214Toriyama was a genius at facial expressions
>>282237770>Amazing fights>Mistery and tension skyrocketed, no one was fucking around>Timelines and time travel may be bullshit, but its genuinely interesting>Seeing each villain get upstaged by the next one (actually the editor) is fun as fuck>Almost every character get some role / shinning moment. Doesn't feel like the Goku show, or the Vegeta or Gohan showYes. Its peak. I also love the other arcs. I just love Dragon Ball. I don't get why you are getting so defensive.
>>282242101It also involves Vegeta and Trunks. In the final fight, Vegeta finally realizes he cares about his son when he's killed by Cell, and figures he has a heart. Same with Goku realizing Gohan doesn't like fighting. Even with Toriyama winging it every week, he really pulled off something impressive.
>>282237770yes
