At what point does a light novel become a heavy novel?
When the publisher calls it that.Thread over now kill yourself for wasting electricity on this garbage.
Calling it LN is a misnomer. It is more like scriptsNo narrative set-ups or writing style. It doesn't even have any prose Just dialogue exchange
>>282397585That's a lot of timestopping into instant death
>>282397585When the writing gets good
>>282397712Read better LNs and avoid WNs
>>282398285Bitch, a better LN is called a Novel
>>282398365The only difference between LN and novel is page count. And sometimes that's not even true. Everything else is dependent on the author or the publisher.There are LNs that have good writing and good prose, you just haven't read them because popular examples tend not to.
>>282397585A light novel is just a marketing for a novel aimed at young readers in Japan. It's not describing the length of the novel but the target audience.
>>282398490On paper, yesIn reality, it is precisely the fact that Novels require more effort to make that it filters out the scrubsNo one reads sprite comics because it is so low-effortNo one reads AI comics because it is so low-effortOnly the low lives do low effort art
>>282398576Novels requires no more or less effort than LNs because they are the same thing. Different publishers of both novels and LNs have differing standards. There's plenty of low effort novels that get published even more than LNsLN haters never have good arguments.
>>282397585>At what point does a light novel become a heavy novel?Once the regular hydrogen atoms in a light novel are replaced with deuterium it becomes a heavy novel.
>>282398692You have never read a real book
>>282398746>u never read reel book xddddAnother go to cope for LN haters. I accept your concession.
>>282398798Cope my assEvery single LN is embarrassing to read.
>>282397585Lol. just lol
>>282398840Your posts are embarrassing to read.
>>282398865We can see the results, retard!LNs are AAAAAAALLLLL Cringe!Not a single one was written by an actual adult
>>282397585Regardless of how big the books look there still only like 100 words per page.
>/lit/fag melty
When the writing improves.
Doesn't light novel just mean that there's pictures in it? Or a certain amount of pictures?
>>282398852SEASON 3 WHEN?
>>282398852Context needed.
>>282397585At 500 pages.
So which eceleb made another isekai bad video that there's another rather heavy spill of the usual isekai bad LN bad japan bad spam?
>>282398701
>>282397585LN is a weird term. Most of the time thet are on the same level, or slightly lower, than average script.
>>282398798Amusingly enough, /lit/fags are quick to admit they don't even read the slop they praise, they just watch jewtube videos summing it up.
>>282399551a fucking brick of ai-tier failed anime script.
>>282398746>he fell for the ""real books"" psyop
>>282399668Yes and no, but it's a rather long story that nobody really gives a fuck about.The gist of it though, do you know kanji? The list of like 2k most used common kanji for basic literacy? Most formal non-fiction publications (read: newspapers, news outlets, and magazines) basically "have" to stay within the boundaries of this list and whenever there's something they have to mention outside of this list they both have to provide a furigana or how to read the word and an explanation of what the term means (which mind you is why MTLing JP news sometimes sounds so redundant, you don't get the point of using the rare raw kanji first then explaining it later in simple terms, you just get the same TL twice).As far as I know there's no explicit law or contract that forces them to do this, they just do out of reaching the lowest common denominator and keeping shit simple.For a while both normal novel publications and LN ones stuck to this same standard, and I'm talking about ancient times before shana was even a thing, and in fact a lot of said publishers did open the "light novel" category to publish simpler shit to try grab a slice of the pie that WSJ was starting to grab.However, because this was just a social contract and not really something set in stone, there was nothing to stop chuuni schizos to write the most overly complex shit imaginable.This style of writing inevitably then bled down to the rest of the industry.However fast forward a decade or two and these days there's basically no difference between bunko and light novel, not even illustrations as most of the bunko publishers in the industry do those now too.And now due to the inevitability of people constantly trying to one-up the other in a cutthroat market the average LN now has far better prose and is harder to read than the average non-fiction "real book", because the latter still stick to joyo kanji standards and avoiding dialects that aren't contemporary formal japanese.
>>282399672I noticed it several years ago. Whether someone claimed to be a litfag, then their all knowledge came not from the actual reading experience or being aware of technical stuff related to storytelling, but rather it came from a pretentious talking head(s) from some edgy jewtube video.
>>282399646normalniggers having a mental breakdown over getting called tourists for things they got happily circlejerked with just a month ago due to some eceleb releasing possibly the worst "video analysis" imaginable
>>282399872Interesting. By the way, I know a little kanji, but not to the point of wanting to read longer texts and have fun while doing so.Thanks for this information, Anon.
>>282399945Is it about that Indian-looking dude (I believe his name was Joey or Jimmy, but I'm not sure) who made a video about it? I see the same mug each time a Covidian decides to whine about being called a tourist.
>>282398852Not all of that is Horizon, some of it looks to be City Series (17 books) and Owari no Chronicle (15 books). Also I don't think that's all of Horizon on the top row either since it doesn't look like enough books to even be just the core set (29 books) and I think it probably doesn't have any of Kimitoasamade (8 books) or Girls Talk (5 books) or the Next Box HDDD (4 books, maybe ongoing) or Next Box Kimi To Asamade (4 books) (Total 50 books for Horizon). It also doesn't have any of the other books from the same universe like Rapid-fire King (2 books), Clash of Hexennacht (4 books), On a Godless Planet (6 books, currently ongoing), or Fangaku!! Tokyo Depths School Life Speedrun (2 books).>>282399176>SEASON 3 WHEN?https://web.archive.org/web/20180830184855/https://just-believe.in/Because the site's dead so you can't just do tell people to just-believe.in anymore
>>282399957I was one of the lucky ones to start off knowing japanese before the initial underground culture of anime VHS reached the west due to work related reasons.You would be surprised at the massive mark (though I would consider it closer to a scar than a mark) left on novel (both bunko and LNs) culture left by schizo chuunifags around the years where shana started publishing.Which I do consider noteworthy because it ran almost parallel to the zeitgeist led by stuff like slayers, but basically never once touched it.However the second the people that grew up reading deranged chuunistuff started to grow up and enter the industry as writers was then the shift happened and you saw A LOT more stories that were far less plot driven and more character driven where the story is primarily about the dynamics of suffering than a straightforward plot.You maybe have heard of "denpa culture", particularly on VNs, but that's just the tip of the iceberg to the far deeper chuuni-suffering culture going at the time, that to this day people still try to just sweep under the rug and only acknowledge in parodies because reading some stuff of that culture can be extremely personally incomfortable.Even modern works that were forged on those fires like monogatari and NGNL are mere shadows to the fires of suffering that came before them.
>>282399097Some people on /a/ think LNs are like an in between of manga and "real books", but there's plenty of LNs with basically no pictures (maybe chapter title illustrations only for instance). And in the past in the west it wasn't uncommon for "real books" to have illustrations in them too. It's a retarded thing to think that comes from ignorance of both Japanese literature but also western literature.
>>282399097It's sort of a nebulous term with no real solid definition beyond attempts to describe some of what is common. The best you could say is probably that they're pop-lit novels that are typically considered light reading.
In jap the average LN is about 110k words, including author comments in the like.
>>282400317that metric always ignores kanji has far more meaning in fewer "words" on top of the reliance on context allowing you to cram even more stuff inthe equivalent would be around 300k-500k words depending on the writer but kike academia will say otherwise to be racist against japan
>>282399679S1 was ok, S2 was meh. But it wasn't like they didn't try. I had to read LN like 3 times to understand like 50% of the lore and setting.
>>282398852Nice tower
>>282397585I'd consider Overlord a regular novel series. It's a shame the author is trying to sabotage his own work because it's really good up until the last two novels
>>282400568the jp prose of overlord is nothing impressive anon, it just is one of the few with a non dogshit TL
>>282400078What's denpa culture?
>>282400078Is that the genre Mondaiji-tachi was in?
>>282399097Basically there are four books people cite as the "first light novel" for different reasons.>Guin Saga (1979, I think?), for being the major short-format serialized book series (although this one is SUPER contentious, due to not being recognizable as a light novel beyond its length and the fact that its serialized)>Operation Fairy (I wanna say 1984?), for being the first major book to use the "light novel" writing style, with lots of casual back-and-forths between characters that tend to read more like an anime script than a book (also the author himself retroactively calls it a light novel, so who's to argue?)>Slayers (1990), for being the series that made it standard to include super detailed anime-style drawings inside the pages (it was not the first to do it, though. Shojou novels technically did it first)>Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh (1998), for starting the wave of light novels that made them so prominent that people in Japan started using 'light novel' to describe them (the term DID exist before that, but wasn't commonly used in Japan until the mid-00s)So basically, a light novel is "some combination of 'short-form book that may or may not be serialized', 'casual dialog with a lot of characters talking', 'anime art', and 'from the Boogiepop lineage'." Doesn't need all four. Usually just 2-3 are enough.In other words, it's a light novel if it seems like a light novel.
>>282400821>ith lots of casual back-and-forths between characters that tend to read more like an anime script than a book (why the fuck do westoids even push this meme when lns are so monologue and narration heavy that adaptations cut out 90% of the book by not having it?
>>282400892Like basically everything about japan, some eceleb or ledditor said it once to shit on jp media and now everyone gaslit themselves into thinking it's true.
>>282400892Uh, anon, you just don't get it. Nobody actually likes writing (or reading) LNs or manga. They're all just trying to make something that'll be adapted into an anime. You know, the REAL art.
>>28240089290% is a wild stretch and you know it, but yes, it's actually quite a big issue for the very same series op attached
>>282400892Because you're an idiot.For fuck's sake, have you READ Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh? The most influential Light Novel ever written? The majority of it is just scenes where two characters are sitting around having a back-and-forth. And that bled hard into all of the light novels that followed it. Here, let me pull a random page from a random LN on my computer. This is the first conversation in the first volume of Fragments of Grimm and shows the sort of "back and forth" that's over-used to hell and back in the medium.Yes, there's narration between them, but Light Novels are infamous for scenes with stretches of dialog with very minimal narration in between.
>>282401147Given that anime is a visual medium, wouldn't you think that something intended to be an anime would give more description of things happening? Though either way I'm sure you'd call it an anime setup. >narration between dialogueAlso called a "book". And no amount of posting muh literature books that spend pages and pages and pages on narration will prove your point. All the /lit/ posters trying to shit on LNs cherrypick to hell and back.
>>282401147>>282401477Ironically enough redditpop is some of the few LNs wanked as reel literature.Guess literally all anti-otaku criticism really is just femcels projecting.
>>282400763nta but pretty much yeahits relatively newer so it has far less suffering tho, at least by old standards
>>282400568I'll never understand people treating "regular novels" as some higher form of literature when there's just as many uninspired and trite Regular Novels being created as there are Light Novels. The only difference is that one occasionally has sick drawings. You'd think people on an anime board would be less hostile towards them but it's like everyone has to prove that they're the smartest fucker in the room because they're endowed with the preternatural intelligence to decipher the regular-ass books that everyone reads and not low-level anime crap for, apparently, babies and retards
>>282401147>>282401477I don't speak a lick of Japanese so it does always surprise my English ass when their pages have so little text on them. I know it's a different language so it conveys things differently but still.
>>282402026>You'd think people on an anime board would be less hostile towards themBut we are not a light novel board. And frankly most light novel adaptations tend to be really shallow commercials for the books. I'm tired of seeing anime that will spend 13 episodes just setting itself up and then having a non climax.
>>282400821>>282402026Recommend 10 light novels that are well written at the level of a normal novel.
>>282398746>>282398840>>282398907>>282402177SO TRUE, WE NEED REAL LIT!
>>282402146Yeah, I don't know if that's a LN thing or just a Japanese book thing in general.>>282402242Can you read Japanese? Also what do you mean "normal novel"? This is why people think you're retarded. Books run the gamut from low level barely readable trash to having prose that even the average native English speaker would have difficulty with.
>>282400821>In other words, it's a light novel if it seems like a light novel.It's a ln if it has the printing standard of a ln.
>>282402303The printing standard being was published by an LN publisher, by the way.
>>282398852>>282399551>>282400550how are the current translations? are we finally in the new sequel?
>>282402369No. He just got done with the volume 9 set so the stage has been set for the final story arc of the main novels. One of the big moments for Toori and Horizon happened in 9 though.
>>282402026>You'd think people on an anime board would be less hostile towards themreminder the leaks showed the jannies are crunshit wagies actively attacking jp media and promoting westoid/gookslopeven before that you had shit like picrel happening almost monthly on various boards to promote kike culture like used goods, nigger worship, NTR, etc
>>282402490And yet they nuke all fanfiction threads.
>>282402297Yeah, whatever, but your recommendations?
>>282402026fun fact, before covid the amount of people doing that shit was rather low, the vast majority that hated on LNs were just the ocassional tourist, most people accepted they weren't "novelfags" and just asked to not be spoiled on whatever series people were talking aboutit was only after covid that this mixture of anti-intellectualism and anti-japan racism started to kick off in earnestyou know what else happened around covid? far more indians getting internet access
>>282402624me on the left
>>282402855Why the fuck would he recommend anything to a retarded piece of shit snob like yourself? Go google shit yourself or kys, retard.
>>282402255What's wrong with leaf?
>>282402855Why would it matter if you can't into japanese?
>>282402951the exact same thing that's wrong with the rest of the abrahamic countrieskike culture
>>28239758550,000 words is the bare minimum tp ne considered a full length novel
>>282401571>Ironically enough redditpop is some of the few LNs wanked as reel literature.I don't interact with the western anime community outside of 4chan, so this is news to me. I assumed Boogiepop was unpopular in the west, since the western release was discontinued very quickly and I saw almost no discussion about the anime.
>>282403177the anime was fairly popular back in the days
>>282403177anon, half of the "anitubers" that launched their careers off shitting on SAO also wanked boogiepop to high hell and their fans constantly circlejerked that opinion even here, i find it impossible you really saw nothing for that entire decade
>>282399176literally never, the sunrise sub-studio that made it is now permanently on love live duty
>>282402855I need to know if biscuit on the firehouse is a normal book before i recommend
>>282403270I legitimately haven't. Are you talking about the light novel or the old anime? Even skimming through the /a/ archives, I'm seeing a LOT of discussion comparing Boogiepop Phantom to stuff like Lain, but only a few random mentions of the books.
>>282403166I'm sure Japan has its own measure of book length. From what I'm seeing it's typically characters. I've seen different ways you could consider separate words in Japanese too. It's not as straightforward as in English.
>>282397585when it uses actual literary language, rather than simple kanji and chuunibyo readings.The "light" refers to the way the speech is constructed, not the length.
>>282397585I always thought light novels were intended as being 'light' like a low calorie food item. With a lower barrier to entry, being easier to understand, smaller reading level required, pictures included. They're basically just snacks for reading.
>>282403424> The "light" refers to the way the speech is constructed, not the length.Similar to the "YA" novel distinction. Plenty of YA trash novels are just as long as classics in the western canon, if not longer, but that doesn't put them on the same measure.Literary merit isn't just based on length.
For what's it worth, this is what Japanese wiki has to say about the definition of a light novel. Pretty much exactly what's been said in the thread. Even heavy dialog is mentioned in there.
>>282403424>The "light" refers to the way the speech is constructed, not the length.Fun fact, in most databases you can check, the hardest novel (counting both bunko and LNs) to read you can find is a two way tie between legends of the galactic heroes and katanagatari depending on how that particular site is measuring difficulty.Past that for the third and fourth place there's another two way tie between ryouma ga yuku and guin saga (though some sites lack this due to only counting GS gaiden).After this fight for the throne, it's mostly LNs all the way down, why? Because most "literature" sticks to basic prose you can read if you can pass a N2 exam.https://jpdb.io/novel-difficulty-list?order=reverse
>>282403470wikipedia is not a trustworthy source in any language anonto this day people are still trying to sweep under the rug an entire language's wikipedia that was vandalized for years by a schizo with bad english that they basically had to scrap the entire branch and remake it from scratch
>>282403690That's nice.Regardless, it cites all of its quotes.
>>282397585Daily reminder these translations for the Record of Lodoss War series exist. get it before it gets DMCArecordoflodosswar.fandom.com/wiki/Record_of_Lodoss_War_Wiki:Fan-translations(I really dislike the "fandom" websites)
>>282403701Yeah. And 90% of those are not easily checked.And even if they were, I can claim whatever I want and only quote what supports the "facts" and ignore the rest. There you go, 100% quoted lmao
>>282403638May I introduce you to a concept called "sampling bias"? This seems especially relevant, due to the methodology used. The data is also likely highly compromised.But you didn't check for that, did you?
>>282403470>>282403701Fun fact, the following series are released under HJ's bunko aka "proper novel" label:>英雄王、武を極めるため転生す ～そして、世界最強の見習い騎士～>Reborn to Master the Blade: From Hero-King to Extraordinary Squire>クロの戦記>Kuro no senki.>最強魔法師の隠遁計画>The Greatest Magicmaster's Retirement Plan>インフィニット・デンドログラム>Infinite DendrogramAnd morehttps://firecross.jp/hjbunko/series
>>282401147There's so much whitespace...
>>282403807i mean do you really have any real argument aside from nuh huh like the typical westoid?
>>282402026If you are implying my post was putting up Overlord as some form of high art then you're mistaken, it was meant to mean that it's definitely not a "light" novel due to it's length. I just enjoy it a lot
>>282403939>it was meant to mean that it's definitely not a "light" novel due to it's length.it's actually comically short for LN standards at like 16-19 or so volumes depending on if you count the filler side stories volumes or notin terms of volume thickness is also nothing special either, as you probably already saw from other examples posted in this vid
>>282403965>in this vidw-what
>>282403974had a schizo moment, meant thread lmao
>>282403965I don't read that many LNs but that's interesting if it's considered short. I have volumes 1-16 on my shelf and they take up more space than most other book series. If that's short then I don't know at what point it goes from light novel -> novel
>>282403861My argument is that the methodology used by your source is bad and any difficulty score provided by it is unrelated to what I said.This is because this methodology largely relies on using machine learning to interpolate a dataset of JSL learners self-reporting the relative difficulty between two texts (A id more difficult than B). This leads to three problematic effects in the dataset: The first and most obvious is sampling bias, the dataset will be dominated by things that JSL learners read often and sparse on things they don't read often. The second is that the data itself is poisoned, as something may have been relatively hard for for a JSL learner when they self-reported, but as their reading level improved it became easier. You cannot assume a roughly equal reading level between the reporters. And finally, this is about JSL learners, rather than Japanese people. What language students think really doesn't matter to a definition of a light novel based on the complexity of the language.
Most writter are trash, and LN suffer from lacking a proper editorial filter. Although having an editor is not a seal of quality too.
>>282402026But "regular book" is the sum of all books, going from good to bad to romantasy. LNs are just LNs.I have fun with LNs, but at the end of the day they're enjoyable slop compared to "good" whatever that means books. But at the same time if you walk into a western bookstore and pick up a random book it's probably worse than an LN.
>>282404046Updooted my fellow ledditor!
>>282404124How's that reddit? Reddit would be fellating the editorless brandonian sandersonian mormonian
>>282404072>compared to "good" books.Like what?
>>282404197I'm not arguing about books with someone that can't even read my whole reply.
>>282404146This a thread about LNs. No one was talking about random American authors.
>>282404220part of the problem is the comically racist prejudice that somehow anything from japan is not "real literature" but even after two decades still failing to point out such examples of good literatureeven before covid we were long past the point this made westoids come off as petulant children throwing a tantrum over not getting the attention jp stuff does
>>282398490The primary driver of the lower page count is the dogshit prose.
>>282403746How do they compare to the official TLs?
>>282397585When you can't just read a chapter during your commute on the train
>>282404226How's that any less relevant than calling a reply reddit because it says there's a lack of editing in LNs?>>282404242what? There is more than enough japanese books that are popular/acclaimed by critics. They're just not LNs, same as noone would seriously call twilight a masterwork.
>>282404266None of the books there have an official translation. The most you can do is compare the 2 official translations of the first lodoss book to thier work.
>>282404287>Unironically using the muh critics excuse.That's just sad.
>>282404307What? So personal taste is invalid, critics are invalid, popular opinion is invalid, got it. No metric is good enough for you, because that goes against your argument right?
>>282404287i don't think you have the reading comprehension to really understand what i'm sayingi'm not calling for a debate here, i'm rightfully calling you a nigger and pointing out you are a good goyim trained by israel to attack japan by any mental gymnastics necessaryit's not that complicated
>>282404322I don't think anyone has the reading comprehension to get what you're saying.
>>282404287You're aware jews sponsor almost all critics, right?This isn't even a joke or a conspiracy theory since covid, in vidya they don't even try to hide blackrock sponsored most of the judges of the game awards.
>>282404263Prose has nothing to do with page count, retard. LN prose is as varied as "real" novels.
>>282404385The average westoid is stupid enough to equate word quantity with quality, please understand.They don't even actually read after all, they just see videos on youtube about the books they wank.
>>282404364Of course, I'm no golem. But that's mostly recent years, with a focus on awards.If you look at Murakami for example is he now bad because his shit won awards back in the day?And how else to measure "good"? There's no authority on that. Taste is taste. It's like judging anime by the mal score.
>>282404427why are you so desperate to measure "good" in the first place at the expense of enjoying stuff? just to virtue signal how good your taste is?
>>282404449To help people filter out the good from the bad. So they can read good stuff instead of slop.And no my taste isn't supremely good, I'm 1600 chapters deep into Fang Yuans wonderfully written adventure right now. Slop can be fun
>>282404482that comes with the arrogance of either assuming everyone has the same taste as you or thinking it is somehow better
>>282404482So you're one of those "anime is trash and so am I" self hating tourists lol.
>>282400651>non dogshit TLThe official english release for overlord is super dogshit. The trannylator got so assmad about the fantl that she/it made a poll on twitter and reddit then crashed out over the results. Everyone preferred the fan tl.
>>282404500>"good" whatever that meansTo quote myself from above.>>282404510>How dare he reads other stuff as well, that must mean he hates the japanese and himself
>>282404385The quality of the prose has literally everything to do with the page count and it's why LNs are as a rule, "Light". They aren't called "Light" because they're short they're called "Light" because they aren't heavy reading.
>>282404535oh yeah i was thinking of the niggel tl when i said non-dogshit tlforgot it even had an official one
>>282404552you bot broke anon, at least make a pretense of reading the thread
>>282397585Light novels are where shitty writers go when they don't have the skill to write actual novels. And that's extra damning, considering just how much dogshit there is in actual novels like pic related.
>>282403746Thanks man.
>>282404648define light novel
>>282404648updooted
>>282404648>lonely housewife schlick novel>actual novel
>>282398576>>282398365Stuff like Isaac Assimov's Foundation series is basically a WN that was published over magazines (instead of a blog) and then compiled into LNs.Still considered one of the best sci-fi stories. So publication format has nothing to do with quality.
>>282404799Have you read Foundation?It's actually quite bad.
>>282404648>Light novels are where shitty writers go when they don't have the skill to write actual novels.What do you get out of repeating false statements like this?
>>282401147>The most influential Light Novel ever written?The only reason I know this even exists is because the anime music showed up on my spotify.
>>282404427>And how else to measure "good"?Which kind of good are you talking about? If we're talking about writing quality then awards can immediately be thrown out since they mostly just judge sales and sales are fueled by how much advertising a publisher pumped into a series. You can absolutely judge writing quality, the only problem will be actually having read a particular book to be able to judge it and being able to make a set of rules for what makes good quality writing then sticking to those while judging the work. As for the LNs are automatically worse than "real" books. That's just dumb since every entertainment medium is filled with garbage alongside well crafted works and the garbage is much more common, but people pretend the well made works are the representative of the medium they put on a pedestal, not the trash that averages those out. >>282404449You realize we're all talking about things we find good and bad in our entertainment here every day, right? You can do that without considering your opinion above anyone else's or a final word on a topic. Judging quality doesn't mean the conversation on a series is over.
>>282404958>You realize we're all talking about things we find good and bad in our entertainment here every day, right?You say it like it isn't a problem.
>>282404648harlequin novels are just LNs for women
>>282404799>>282404820Here's a listing of some texts that were originally released on a periodical magazine named "The Russian Messenger" once upon a time. You might recognize some of these titles.
>>282404578Ah but is it a light thread or a heavy thread?
>>282398285>>282404799>>282399672WNs?
>>282405003Having conversations isn't a problem, no. Going the opposite way where everyone just ends the conversation at, "I agree with you" or "I disagree with you," then saying "its all sujective so why talk about it," doesn't improve anything.
>>282405075Snake, a WN or a "Web Novel" is a novel published digitally, typically serialized in installments on websites or online platforms. Key characteristics include being released chapter by chapter on a schedule, offering reader interaction through comments and discussions, a wide variety of genres, and the potential to be free or pay-to-read. Web novels can serve as a platform for aspiring authors to gain a following, and successful ones may be later published as physical books or "light novels"
>>282405022I find it amusing how little things change. Can you guess which older WN to LN success story this is about?
>>282405022the fact that serialized fiction was accepted historically does not change anything about the fact that Foundation is quite bad.
>>282404427>>282404958>>282405003>>282405113There is, in fact, an objective means of measuring whether or not something is "good" and/or of high quality.Pic related. The objective measure is my opinion
>>282404799Asimov had idea to explore, WN and LN tend to be samey.>No SF LN
>>282405327My point was to echo anon's notion about release format not having a lot to do with quality with more examples. It's a misnomer to think that books must be planned, drafted, and edited before released in full volume for them to have a change of being "literary".
>>282405327>Foundation is quite bad.what!? it was awesome
>>282405327Asimov prose is barely acceptable, but Asimov was known for his capacity to explore interesting idea. I would say Dune is even worse but you remember the book for its plot and incredibly interesting future. You just need a stillsuit for its dry prose.
>>282405327>>282405520PROSE = CANCER
>>282397585When sending it through the inbuilt e-mail function in Calibre fails due to file size.
>>282397585I see a sexy MareIt's time for THAT
I didn't know the LN super dialogue heavy style was actually a feature of the genre.
>>282405633maybe you should stick to anime
>>282404958>Which kind of good are you talking about?A good end product. One that is fun or engaging. That can be popcorn kino, something that makes you think about it afterwards, something that challenges you, something that gets you off, something that makes you laugh, makes you sad, makes you lonely, makes you empathize with characters, understand characters, challenge your beliefs and mindset. There is so much good in media.I have found so many standout works that do one or multiple of those things. Good prose helps lots, but it's mostly about the author and what he wants and is able to portray. In japanese literature there are a lot of people trying to make their standout work. Some succeed.LNs are not by default worse than "real" books. But when I do a mental list of all I have read, be it WN, LN, Manga, Real books, then WN and LN will not make my top 50. Yeah that's subjective. But I just don't feel like there are any that stand out as really really good.Now that I think about the why, it may be because they never stop. No matter how good the first novel is, it will go on and on and on and on. The premise may be great, the characters interesting, but instead of stopping where it should it gets squeezed until it's no longer good. Non-LN stuff also suffers from this, but to a lesser extent.
>>282406185>something that challenges youanyone that truly thinks this is not preemptively putting up the "this is slop" mental barrier to protect their own fragile ego
>>282405727>t. elf king
>>282398746
>>282398746>brooo muh Dostoevsky eat shit faggot.
>>282402855皆勤の徒
>>282404263They actually have higher page counts than regular novels for the same char counts. Characters talking leaves lots of whitespace with how japanese is written and LNs are very dialogue heavy compared to "normal" books
>>282406354Try Howard, beta bitch.
>>282406338>>282402255My brother in Christ!We have seen the LN animeWe have seen what makes you cheer, and you are in no position to speak
>>282406338Got something to tell us?
>>282407022LN is fun anon
>>282407051So are the pulps.
>>282407051So fucking what?You're a pot calling the kettle blackAt least literoticas keep themselves in booksWhile you embarrassing weebs had to give it a manga, an anime, and mercs. You shameless losers are doing worse
>>282407022>>282407111Your post formatting and word choices are odd and make me think you're an ESL VANK gookshill from reddit and simply seething about Japan as usual.You're clearly not from around here.
>>282397585It's arbitrary.It's like nerds getting butthurt when you point out graphical novels and comic books are effectively the same thing.
>>282398576There's sprite comics in 2025?
I read some classical literature and ln's. there's so much of both that it's impossible to make any overarching judgements. but it's kind of unfortunate that there's this 'shitty wn' to 'shitty ln' to 'shitty anime' pipeline because there's some legitimate really great stuff.My favorite books are eco novels, specifically 'name of the rose' and 'foucault's pendulum'. I used to read a bunch more western lit but much of it wasn't that good. I took a peek at dostoevsky and it reminded me of to dazais 'no longer human'.as for ln's there's a lot of pulp that's still really fun if you're an anime fan, unlike western pulp which is just porn or boring/bad. stuff like 'no game no life' or '86' is really cool. 'orc eroica' is the funniest thing I've read in a while. but then there's also some stuff that I'd put closer to "normal" literature like 'zaregoto' and 'empty box and zeroth maria'. monogatari franchise still mogs most literature in general.I think fags who hate on LN's either hate reading or hate anime
>>282407111>At least literoticas keep themselves in bookslollmao
>>282407750When was the last big literotica adaptation?Because Romantasyslop has been clogging western lit for a decade and there have been no movies or shows based on them.
>>282407900I can answer this because my mom for some reason really loves these shits. It Ends with Us, 2024.
>>282398746Like the one when the horse got turned into a girl, fell in a love with a man, and then got turned back into a horse and was fucked by a stallion and then tuned back into a human, so now not only her beloved was literally cucked by a horse, he will also have to raise horse or whatever child now. How can LNs even compete with such a masterpiece.
>>282408065why are horse girls like that
>>282397585When it becomes more than a comercial product, so never.
>>282402026We call those pulp fiction.
>>282408497>When it becomes more than a comercial productEverything that sells is a commercial product
>>282398365>>282397712>>282397585Read Jietai/GATE the real novel, first edition. the LN editions got chopped up into smaller pieces.
Will overlord end good with all the plotholes considered?
>>282397585when there's no anime drawing on the cover
>>282411212There are 100+ years books with anime covers
