This guy is a complete idiot
>>282482451is he a centrist?
>>282482451Isn't this the same general meaning of >if we kill our enemies they win?
>muh semicircles
>>282484025Cuck wen li
Imagine how much better he would have performed if Julian hadn't gotten him wasted with brandy tea 24/7.
He's actually the smartest guy on the show, smarter than Reinhard evenThe problem is that he literally bricks himself into a corner he built HIMSELF out of his own ideals and then waits there for something to kill him rather than compromise even a little bit You almost get the feeling he wanted to lose but not deliberately so to become a martyr in order to keep the dream of democracy alive even as literally everything around him was failing to live up to it
>>282482680Why is your generation simply cannot understand concepts of morality and ethics?
>>282482451The series proves him right though.
>>282482451What did you expect from the democracy guy in a show that is all about DEMOCRACY BADDICTATORSHIP GOOD
>>282482451that's why he got killed
>>282482451he went undefeated by reinhard or an other imperial admiral
>>282484071hello saar
>>282484071at best they're thought experiments but usually they're a weapon to be used against you
>unintentionally funny scene
>>282484065Sounds like he wasn't so smart after all
>>282484358>everyone just watching him shuffle through his guts for a rocket launcheri see you bittenfield you lil bitch ass hoyou were right in front of him
>>282484109Dictatorship is so good that democracy guy couldn't give the order to kill the dictator when faced with the choice.
>>282484517He was smart, but it doesn't mean he was wiseYang studied history enough to understand what was happening was cyclical and inescapable with his current methods, but unlike Reinhard he wasn't willing to become a monster to break the cycle. Jessica was Yang's surrogate in the democratic arena and when she died so too did any hope of preventing the FPA from falling. It was kind of interesting that the riot that killed her basically resulted in the deaths of all the FPA's reformists in one go
>>282484109The republic ends up in a far stronger position than the empire, you moronGive your head a shake
>>282482451why does his face look like it was ai generated
>>282482451Yes I despise him greatly. Thankfully he got called out (once) for sacrificing so many people's lives for his own egotistical reasons (being an idealist). I feel bad for the hundreds of millions of men who died under his command for essentially no reason because he threw the opportunity away.
>>282484109Benevolent dictatorships with an extremely strong leader are good, but the point was that such types are once every several hundred or even thousand years occurrence. And when they die the dictatorship inevitably falls far more readily into corruption and human rights violations. Democracy was a bit more resistant to the decay but also would inevitably become corrupt.
>>282484247>le old sci-fi cartoon with the trolley problem must be a tranny out to get you and not the former
>>282484358wait why does it look so good? this is not the remake, the nyaa torrent ones are like 240p
>>282485168On the other hand, monarchies lasted as a form of government for thousands of years, which is an argument for their robustness. We've only really had mass democracy as a system of government for 100 years and it's falling apart around us, so what does that tell you?
>>282484065He just wanted democracy
>>282485601I upscaled with DLSS
>>282485760Monarchies didn't have to deal with the internet
>>282484247Not really, ethics and morally is like having a good diet. If you stray from it it harms you, you feel bad, others ate impacted negatively because your pooh smells and you can't pull your weigh because you arrived drunk at work. If you stick to it you feel good and people look up to you.
>>282485760I don't care about robustness I just don't want the power to fall into the hands of a single man and democracy is better at that.
>>282482451He is just a tool needed to move the plot forward.
>>282484071It is 100% moral and ethical to kill your enemies, if they are an aggressor, until they case the aggression.
>>282482451This guy was such an obvious fucking self-insert for le laid back humble intellectuals that it was gross to watch.
>>282482451Well, he believes in democracy, so what did you expect?
>>282487336I thought he was supposed to be Space Zhuge Liang.
>>282484082I don't think it did. It just seems to show humanity will always cycle back and forth between periods of some great man bringing order to chaos by challanging the status quo before chaos once again prevails when that great man's descendants try to preserve the status quo to protect their interest even when it fails everyone else.
>>282486833Now you have the power in the hands of a few hundred corrupt men, who are all controlled by a shadow cabal that never shows itself, and is not even inside your country. This is much harder to fix than overthrowing a tyrant. And voting harder won't do anything, since they control all the parties.
>>282487430Oligarchy is the fulcrum between dictatorship and democracy that all systems will inevitably slide towards. When the monarchy becomes too weak or the democracy too corrupt, the oligarchs will always be there to take power.
>>282482680no, the point is that if you adopt the enemy's morality then you kinda don't have an argument against them anymore
>>282485168benevolent dictators are doomed to fail because while the dictator can be nice the people around them may nota single person can never truly govern an entire country
>>282488888if your conflict is the result of differences in morality then yeah but it rarely is, also checked
>>282484692Yang was an historian at heart. He was looking at the future and he didn't trust power not to corrupt him on the long run, nor did he trust that some asshole down the line wouldn't use him as an example to justify a military dictatorship in the future. Look at how the founder of the FPA's ideals were twisted later on.
>>282487394Yes, he died without accomplishing anything, like Zhuge Liang.
>>282484109That's 100% not what the show is about.
>>282484025Cute
>>282489532It's hilarious how many unironic /pol/fags watch this show and see it as a full-throated endorsement of fascism.
>>282490386>democracy is shown to be completly inept, corrupt and dysfunctional at every turn barely hanging on thanks to their space sun tsu saving their ass every damn battle>MEIN GREAT SPACE REICH lead by the glorious RAUMFUHRER is an unstoppable steamroller whose biggest problems are dumb nobles that are to small-minded to understand the perfect RAUMFUHRER and the RAUMFUHRER being offed by plotpowered super cancerGeez, I wonder how they got that impression
>>282493162>space sun tzuSpace Yi Sun Sin.
>>282490386Reinhard's line about genetics is always funny with that in mind.
>>282485601Are you living under a rock? There are Blu Ray releases of LotGH. The superior version is still the laserdisc one, but if you favour image quality over animation consistency, then the HD versions are right up to your alley
>>282484192He was defeated by an imperial secretary thoughever
>>282494179>superior version is still the laserdisc onecan someone spoonfeed this to me? what about the LD is so good? I've been wondering about buying the series and i can't seem to find out why this is. the only thing i know is that they lost some film? does the LD version retain this?
>>282484739>>The republic ends up in a far stronger position than the empire, you moron>Give your head a shakeNot that anon but at the end of LotGH>the Imperials are building two new Iserlohns to guard each end of the recently discovered Phezzan corridor>FPA reduced to only the Heinessen system>probably not even a single full fleet to defend it and entirely encircled by Imperials>Ruenthal, the biggest threat to Imperial stability is deadFPA is cooked unless Julian, Heinessens another colony ship to another undiscovered part of the galaxy and they might be able to try again in another 300-500 years.
>>282493162>>democracy is shown to be completly inept, corrupt and dysfunctional at every turn barely hanging on thanks to their space sun tsu saving their ass every damn battleIt's implied that if Yang never took command at Astarte then the FPA would've went in to hyper-defensive mode. Reinhard wouldn't get more chances for glory and the status quo would remain in place as it had been. Yang really was the main element that led to the collapse of the FPA because his successes only emboldened them to do more and more self-destructive things.
>>282495982
>>282495245Laserdisc is mostly for purists. I dont know what happened, but later releases of LotGH featured "remastered" scenes in the first chapters of the show. Those remastered scenes stand out because they dont always blend in well with the old school animation. Here's a comparisonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oDWkR0uqboIf you considering buying LotGH, you can go ahead and buy the bluray version. I dont think there will ever be an official hd laserdisc re-release, but there is always a chance some autistic fans might compile one in the future.
>>282496249Thanks for the explanation anon. Were the LD ever properly ripped? i see them fairly commonly in nip spaces.
>>282495982>>282496033Let's be honest: LoGH was a total monarchy wank.Democracy is only portrayed as a waiting chamber until a proper dictator solve everything.>Good Democratic alliance-everyone are corrupts or work against their own interest,-their technology is inferior to the Empire despite its worship of the past, and they never did big project worth anything,-the population are retarded despite free speech and press, in the end they don't give a shit about who take power.>Evil monarchic empire-constantly produce able & competent subordinates who kill traitors to the nation,-their technology is always superior despite the system encouraging nepotism, they made multiple superweapons-half of the population are illiterate peasants they never let down or revolt against their divine dictator.
>>282499218I mostly agree with you but the way the story criticise them isn't so much about democracy vs monarchy but about everything eventually turning to shit with elites who came to power via merit being replaced by those who want to preserve status quo. It's bad in criticizing monarchy because it basically does the lazy centrist thing of both side same.
>>282488888Checked and I somewhat agree, but like anon said, you could have the same morality and merely be fighting over resources for your respective families/tribes. Reluctant "us or them" scenarios happen all the time. But obviously this is about gay liberal space democracy versus roman space nazis, so it's more complicated.
>>282490386>rent free
>>282497710Who knows. I hope one day a proper laserdisc version gets released on the internet. In any case you can find a full rip of the laserdisc version in the archive site
>>282499218>-everyone are corrupts or work against their own interest,>-their technology is inferior to the Empire despite its worship of the past, and they never did big project worth anything,>-the population are retarded despite free speech and press, in the end they don't give a shit about who take power.Damn, just like our modern "democratic" sistem, no wonder this series makes libtards seethe, it is really accurate.
>>282499314>It's bad in criticizing monarchy because it basically does the lazy centrist thing of both side same.As if...Both side are portrayed as only the popular/elite autocrat mattering,We see no ill effect from the enforced faux-primitivism of autocracy, the empire should have been barely functional and requiring constant propaganda and quelling of revolt even under the "benevolent kind" (who still want the population to die for his war).We see none of the qualities of democracies and educated population ever kicking it, Job Trunicht should have been replaced And yet, by the end Yang was basically worshiped like a king himself, then his protégé took his place simply because he was around him the most.The degradation of the Alliance should have been the population rejecting solutions that would have saved them (by making them complacent with the Alliance as vastly superior).The fall of Reinhard shouldn't have been him dying of sickness while the New galactic empire was as its peak. It should have been him getting sick while barely able to keep his empire running by killing opponents, incapable of keeping corruption from appearing since it built-in the system.>>282500164Nice try pawn of Adrian Rubinksy,
>>282500678I have argued the exact same thing you said with other anons in the past. The Empire should have been portrayed as a nightmarish orwellian superstate and the democratic backsliding of the republic from it's golden days to how fell under state capture that destroyed sepration of branch of power all should've been examined. The entire war should have been portrayed less as 19th century napoleon war in space and more 20th century cold war of ideologies with conspiraies and subterfuge being hatched at every moment.Ultimately however this isn't the kind of story LoGH is trying to say.
i wish i was as smart as some of the anons in this thread when i watch the series.
>>282482451Envy is unbecoming of an imperial.
>>282484065>he literally bricks himself into a corner he built HIMSELFThis is the lesson you're supposed to take away after understanding the entire show. Be as absolutely benevolent as you can, but if forced into an event where your survival is at stake, you must begin the difficult arithmetic of: How many lives, how much good can I do if I survive? Am I able to decipher a way out of this situation that minimizes the evils I must commit so that I may continue to do good? And is my soul able to resist the corruption of repeating these evil easier paths, maintaining as close to 100% purity as I possibly can as a flawed mortal in a flawed reality?>>282484517>wasn't so smartHe was a 100% pure being lasting as long as he could within a math formula that did not permit the survival of angels. This is why the color grey exists, so that it may spare and protect heavens white from hells black.>>282484692>unlike Reinhard he wasn't willing to become a monsterDid we watch the same content? Reinhard believed in the benevolence of yang and wanted to recruit him. One can easily imagine a superior timeline in which he successfully recruited him and the total casualties of the entire war were minimized to the absolutely lowest possible and their entire regime enjoying the longest lasting golden age
>>282501107Everyone in these threads makes Bittenfeld look like a genius
>>282502670
>>282493162zoning out anytime a character started talking about politics and philosophy most likely.
>>282488888i think you see this a lot in modern politics, where it feels like one side didn't actually object to the methods as they said and just wanted to be the ones in control, immediately doubling down on what they claimed to hate before taking power
>>282484071Why is YOUR generation simply cannot understand winning and losing?If you win, you're a GOD. If you lose, you're dead. If morality helps me win, great, if not, then it doesn't matter. When it's convenient, I pick it up, when it's inconvenient, I cast it aside. If I win, everything is forgiven. If I lose, nothing is forgiven. If I do everything wrong and I win, I still win. If I do everything right and still lose, I still lose. Very, very simple.
>>282488888There is no morality in a military conflict. The entire concept of warfare relies on getting your enemy into vulnerable position. The most celebrated triumph in history, the Battle of Canae, is basically just ruthless carnage.I never wanted to watch this show because every time I see a screenshot it's some boring 19th century concept deployed at officer's quarters, over whisky and cigars. It has no resemblance to real life realities of even Napoleonic warfare, much less this nonsensical space ship laser bonanza.If you're on a giant ship, in a war, and you get vaporized in space without being able to change anything, there is no morality there, you just got unlucky. There was no honor in that, you were atomized like a bug. Someone else is always pulling the strings, you could've been the commander of that entire vessel and it still would not matter; you would get vaporized just like the grunt cleaning the toilet.LOGH is just comfy outfits on dark vastness of space; in truth they're all pointless military aristocracy wasting their lives doing shit nobody cares about.
>>282484358this is the best sort of subversion/surprisesomeone doing some bizarre thing in a calm manner so it looks normal in the momentlike walking up to someone and calmly stabbing them, it's freaky to think about
>>282484065
>>282503796The show also pulls a lot of shocking violence and gore out of nowhere. I specifically remember at least one or two scenes of soldiers with their guts hanging out of them before their entire ships explode with everyone dying. Like I'm not even sure if it's trying to make a point about the senselessness of war when those scenes clash so hard with all of the grand philosophizing.
>>282497710There was some guy that was working on a domesday rip, but I haven't heard anything about it in years.
>>282499218>Let's be honest: LoGH was a total monarchy wank.The show is just more subtle with its criticism on dictatorship. It purposefully takes place when the democracy was at its worst, even so the citizens were quite content compared to the Empire's. The Goldenbaum era was dogshit, look what elites like Braunschweig did to Westerland on a whim, that kind of thing can't happen in a democracy. Lohengramm's era was a huge improvement, but even so there existed problems like Reuenthal's rebellion. In general, they're very obsessed with status in the Empire. Alfred Grillparzer had information that could have avoided the whole rebellion, but he purposely hid it so he could betray Reuenthal during the fight and look like a hero.
>>282503967As I remember one of the first sentences, when they explain the setting, is that it's one among millions of wars and conflicts, that nobody knows why or when it started, why is it fought or when will it finish. It's pretty nihilistic which clashes with the romanticist theme. But I think people big on pieces of shit (good writers) like Ernst Junger adore this because IRL they like being given a purpose. If you get to wear fancy clothes and walk down marble aisles you might think you're actually someone else. It seems to me this show fetishizes this type of thinking and that its main goal is to read War and Peace like an adventure novel rather than a critique of imperialism. Because who gives a fuck about peasant villages burned down, you're only there for a day, you might fuck a wench or two and then you're off bombarding another town, squatting in another stately home, watching ruinous cityscape ablaze against the gloaming (Junger loves this word) etc. It is an atavism that Japan still hasn't cured itself out of. Maybe another bomb is due.
>>282504433Democracy is at its worst right now in Western Europe, but when you start receiving Monarchist spiel, it's not some Lohengrinn or whatever they call these blonde Prussian guys, it's a jew like Moldbug serving you total corpo fascism.
>>282503967I think that's actually apart of the secret sauce that makes the series work better. Without it, it would just be a lot of meaningless, somewhat above mediocre "jaw-jaw"-ing. The bloodletting moments act as a sort of counterweight to the romanticism and grounds the series/plot. I believe that mix+ the character developments throughout the series are what actually elevate it to "classic" (objectively an 8.5-9/10) status.
>>282493162>democracy is shown to be completly inept, corrupt and dysfunctional at every turn barely hanging on thanks to their space sun tsu saving their ass every damn battleThe average citizen in the FPA had a higher quality of life than the average citizen in the Empire. There's no slavery or forced servitude in the FPA, and even POWs don't have to labor if they don't want to, unlike in the Empire. Even the greatest example of rot in the FPA, the PKC, turned out to be infiltrators from Phezzan instead of actual FPA citizens.The Empire is only better if you imagine yourself at the top, but otherwise the FPA is shown to be pretty darn reasonable.
>>282505638Nah, the US is a whole lot worse off than western europe
>>282505638>>282506279Both are victim to the same problem - boomers.
>>282505603The fetishization makes it more interesting. Heroic narratives are seductive, and keeping the appeals in place is just more honest. Polyphonic, even.
>>282484071We understand it better than anyone and that is why we are dying as a race and society.Extreme morality is the same as being a cuck.We must kill the enemy even their chickens and donkeys.
>>282505603The series strongly criticizes Reinhard's warmongering tendencies, both in and out of narrative. How he's justified is with the excuse that what he constructs in his wake (and he constructs a lot) outweighs his negatives. It's in no way a fetishistic celebration of war and empire. Hell, Reinhard makes a point to ban idolatry and tries to install his office in a random hotel room instead of a palace and throne.>>282506279You may have had a point five years ago, but the FBI and Biden admin's dirty laundry is getting aired out now, and complain as you might about PACs and bureaus, the US at least doesn't have entire parties disenfranchised with total media suppression and multiple candidates all mysteriously dying within weeks of an election like AfD, or doing literally the exact opposite of what they got elected for like Tories.The worst of democracy is third-world upstarts who use the word to browbeat opposition and conduct fraudulent elections, though they're ironically often created by American interference. Worth noting that's basically how modern democracy began in France though.
>be forced to join space wars>die to super space lasers>the endNice life.This is why high tech in wars need to be abolished and those that work towards killed since they will result in billions of deaths a year.
>>282506837lmao Trumo is going around shutting down everyone that doesn't suck his dick, built his own gestapo, memorey holed Epstein, has successfuly subverted the divison of power and just passed a law to treat anyone he wants as terroriststhe US is rapdily sliding into becoming a dictatorship, and WE is still far away from that
>>282502670Bittenfeld was a genius tho, he literally saves the entire Empire using his signature tactics because nobody thinks that full frontal charges could ever work against the genius Yang Wenli. Until they turn out to be the one move that can actually catch him flatfooted.
>>282506279US only needs to align with Russia and China and it will be fine. EU on the other hand...>>282506837While I did not watch the show, the fetishism is obvious from what I've seen. I accept it's not a celebration, but you do not need to celebrate a certain idea in order to use its aesthetic. I just think it's a doomed premise from which to build a narrative.>>282506433At the moment both are jacked into mil-ind complex arms race under the guise of NATO and it will be very hard to extricate from it, in case of Europe it will not be possible. >>282506595I think even well developed callbacks to 19th century nationalistic spirit soon become stale. It is very dependant on how you choose to depict war. I mentioned Junger because that psychopath talks about how they had a beautiful morning eating fried rats over a cup of tea, and then Hans went to a latrine and a shell hit him square in the torso and it was quite a mess, but in the evening they went to a nearby French village where they totally did not hold a family hostage and had a wonderful bottle of wine from a 50 year old vintage. Even good narratives go stale once you see the pattern. I always look at military conflict as a secondary expression of the way the economy is structured.
>>282494179>The superior version is still the laserdisc oneBiggest myth in LoGH historyThe sad truth is that the Laserdiscs were mastered by retards that decided to frame blend the 3:2 pull down making most of the original film frames unrecoverableAll that's left is a mess of ghosting that probably only ever looked decent on a CRT TVThere's all sort of other issues like the film not being secured well during the telecine which makes the picture shake a lot or that the colors just plain look worse that the film remasters
>>282506897The Epstein memoryhole is the only thing that actually happened here. Stop getting all your coverage from propaganda and headlines.
>>282507352>Biggest myth in LoGH historyI agree, and that's from someone who has all of them.The digital redraws would probably be better received if they didn't stand out so much, but most of the scenes they replaced were pretty badly animated to begin with. It's completely understandable why they were redone for the DVD release, and the BD upscales look better in general.I'd really like a proper remaster, but aside from the two movies (which were remastered twice), I know that's never, ever going to happen.
>>282507128It's a little silly to say that an entire spirit of an age could get stale. Most of the time, when people say something big and complex is actually this other thing that that is quite predictable and easy to explain and thus boring, they're not sincerely participating in that thing, and they could just as easily boil down anything that way. The morality that led to WW1 isn't wrong, it's just different, and there's a lot to like about it. When we enjoy fiction, we can step outside of ourselves and try to inhabit different eras. It's fun on its own without an overbearing message. Let yourself get possessed by the spirit of the times, you party pooper.
>>282507352Top right contains a raw frame from the Laserdisc. Top left contains the same frame deinterlaced (which just throws one field out and doubles up the remaining field). You can see the bottom half of that frame is blended with another frame.The bottom left frame is that frame after my encode pipeline. Looks like it was able to reconstruct the original frame from an unblended field. The bottom right is the frame right before it which wasn't so lucky.The whole encode looks like this and there's nothing that can be done about it.>>282507529>I'd really like a proper remasterIt is a shame because a lot of the originals do look better than the redraws. I think some of the original film is either lost or damaged.
>>282484109Yeah it's pretty hilarious watching LoGH extoll the virtues of monarchy and trying to both-sides it, and then you look out your window and see that history completely fucking obliterated monarchy. Liberalism (the academic definition not the culture war definition) absolutely crushed it. It has absolutely nothing to do with "muh morality" or "muh great men" or "muh liberty" like LoGH thinks it does, it has everything to do with monarchy being a completely obsolete system totally incapable of maintaining an industrialized, or even mercantile society. The Empire's economy is based on agricultural serfdom with oxen-pulled plows for gods sake, it couldn't maintain a space navy or a centralized bureaucracy let alone fight a galactic war against the Alliance. It would have collapsed, whether by splintering into Warlordism or simply being overthrown by an actually viable government, long before the Alliance was even founded. But that's because the author was a turbo liberal who had absolutely zero understanding of material conditions or how societies actually work, like he writes the original Galactic Republic fell because of "debauchery" (which is apparently defined as when fat women take off their shirts). Which is a classic Liberal brainlet take that ignores that things like "debauchery" aren't magical forces that force otherwise healthy societies to self-destruct, but mere manifestations of actual material catastrophes making the system unsustainable.
>>282508058Haven't I seen this post, word for word before...?
>>282507768>morality that led to ww1There was no such thing. WW1 was brewed by the bankers who ramped up jingoistic tendencies and made sure the stage is set for a massive bloodletting. Every grand movement in arts came as a reaction to that catastrophic event, including resentiment that led to more industrialization, more hatred, more carnage. You cannot have morality in an industrial era because, much like overpopulation, it distills everything down to meat and numbers. Just one poem, Charge of the Light Brigade, drastically changed the way war was viewed in Britain, and this without newsreels. With drone footage we have today, any sort of morality conjoined with military is a foregone thought. People who promote it either run algos or work for Brussels.
>>282508058>>281645011What the fuck
>>282508252Looks like the same guy posted it (but an earlier rendition) in November of 2024 here >>273176361Which is pretty insane to think about. Is this autist saving each one of his replies so that he can add onto them later? Does he have an entire folder of text files? Fucking nuts man
>>282482451>serves a corrupted system with politicians who laugh at his face and don't care about common folk>preaches about how it's better than another flawed system that does pretty much the sameI blame his autistic focus on history and Stockholm syndrome.
>>282508409It is either that, or some sort of dedicated bot. I'm not sure which one is worse.(Someone would have a bot argue about fucking Logh? Are they scared of a fucking decades old series?)
>>282508409If you put specific words or specific combinations of words into a post then you can search it in the archive to copy-and-paste for future threads.NTA tho.
>>282508535Well, yes of course, but the bigger question is why would he repost it, three times no less?
>>282508565Because Anon still agrees with what they originally wrote way back then?
>>282508565Hey it could be worse, he could be spamming AI NTR of fucking Patlabor, though it's probably better not to give him/it any ideas
>>282508592>theyWe're talking about one anon, and given it's a lotgh thread, it's most certainly a he. But if you don't understand why it's taboo to just copy and paste your own comments in a discussion from months ago rather than simply writing a new one with fresh inspiration, you and I won't be able to agree on this. >>282508644Yeah let's not encourage him. Kek
>>282508190Good sources for the real history of WW1?
>>282508651>it's most certainly a he.I choose to believe in fujoshi supremacy. Only women truly understand LoGH as it's meant to be understood.
>>282508651>given it's a lotgh thread, it's most certainly a he.Does LotGH have a fujo audience? The anime remake and some of manga adaptations I've seen seems designed more for female tastes, but that's just my impression.
>>282508706>>282508737>fujos in my space politics animeNOOOO GOD AAGGGHHHHH NOOOOOO
>>282503739>Why is YOUR generation simply cannot Thank you that answers my question completely
>>282508651EZY is coming out next year, so I am fearful they're going to swarm it as soon as it becomes popular again
>>282508737It does, but they're usually not in it for the politics.The first manga was by a BL artist, and it shows.
>>282508692Not sure. From the Russian side, Kotkin's Stalin bio explains it succinctly in the first book (basically 20 years of failure before 1917). Personally I think the main culprit is the crazed German emperor that utilized 10 years of trade war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia to finally intervene once things got out of hand. I mean I'd always look for some kind of economical cause. Like, I would swear an invasion of Russia in 2030s is coming but for the existence of China.
I liked the spunky redhead tomboy
>>282508565Laziness over retyping the same argument.
>>282484239hello meme spouting retard
LOGH made me realize a smart short hair tom boy should be every man's goal.
>>282485168They are never good. Their authority rests from the use of violence, and when presented with dissent they will crush it in the name of stability. They can never please all the people all the time, they are bound to be a tyrant no matter what they do.It also depends on his entire regime to be as upstanding and moral as he, because eventually some bureaucrat, governor, or general will decide they want more for less and abuse the people.>>282485760No regime has lasted for thousands of years. Every last one has been overthrown, killed, or even in the case of the Japanese emperors, puppeted and killed when they become annoying.
>>282509438BEST GIRL
>>282482680>Yang: I can't defeat the empire by becoming a military dictator, that would defeat the point and undermine everything I believe in>Schenkopf: I mean, that's logically true but the thing is you could become a dictator for just a little bit, win the war, and then surrender your power. Sure, other people might be corrupted and refuse to give up power but you probably wouldn't. We don't live in a morality textbook>Yang: still noYang refusing to budge on his principles even when they were stupid and costing him an easy victory was explicitly his character flaw, there's like 30 conversations about this
Who is everyone's favorite character? Mine is Oberstein.
>>282508737It's a show about important high status men having very intense relationships and competition with each other.
I just finished episode 26 I didn't expect Kirchiheis to die this early. I feel sad.
>>282510303While Schenkopf had a pragmatic argument, Yang, as a historian, was more forward thinking and rightfully concerned with the long-term ramifications of his decisions. If he took over the Republic, even if it was only for a little while so that he could cleanse the government of corruption and win the war with the Empire, the precedent would be set that in times of emergency, a military leader has the right - or responsibility, even - to suspend democracy and enforce his own will upon the Republic for the 'greater good.' Something similar happened in the Roman Republic, with dictators being elected by the Senate with absolute power to win wars and settle crises. While an elected dictator did not end up seizing power directly (or not for long anyway), Rome eventually began to see having a single, authoritative leader who knew how to get shit done as more beneficial than the ineffectual Senate that grew increasingly corrupt and useless. When Julius Caesar took over, then Augustus and all the Emperors to follow him, the Roman public and government were already primed to accept a single absolute ruler no matter what the Senate tried to do to stop it.
>>282510303>you could become a dictator for just a little bit, win the war, and then surrender your powerDoing this fundamentally undermines the legal framework a republic is built on. The Roman Republic used the office of the dictatorship as an emergency button instead of dealing with its problems via the senate, assembly and consuls which ultimately proved to be a mistake.
>>282510073>>282510149Is LOGH stealth tomboy propaganda?
>>282510815Katerose was basically meaningless story wise.Yang's and Reinhart's wives were actually important.
>>282508737>ReutenalWhy did they massacre my boy?
>>282508737>>282510971Nobody got it worse than Cazelnu the hentai otaku.
>Everyone itt thinking fujos don't watch this when most of the people are discussing are probably fujosI was recommended this show by a fujo
>>282510991>Cazelnu the hentai otaku.I kind of like the redesign
>>282510416>>282510731Didnt Rome did exactly that against the elephant guy? and ended up working fine afair>>282510997Fujos are Kinoisseurs for the wrong reasons, but still Kinoisseurs. like Dinasty warriors, thunderbolt fantasy and LOTGH
>>282510416As a historian Yang should have known that democracy is shit.
>>282511598>the elephant guyYou mean Hannibal? I don't recall Rome specifically appointing dictators to deal with him, they just burned through soldiers and consuls until Scipio Africanus adapted to Hannibal's tactics. In fact Scipio Africanus refused calls to become a dictator or perpetual consul later in life. But my Roman history is super spotty.
>>282495572At the end of the show, Hilda (who has no hard power at her disposal) will have to tardwrangle 20 ambitious admirals, for the span of a 16-18 year interregnum. Admirals who had gained their positions by overthrowing the old government.And with the end of the war these men have just become obsolete...The FPA doesn't have to do anything. They just need to wait for the inevitable war of the Diadochi.GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE
>>282484065He is a bad written character, he is "smart", we are told he is super smart but never once do we get to see him actually act smart.
>>282511598Scipio ended up getting fucking banished from Rome by Cato Senior, because he was the first guy to figure out that soldiers' loyalty can be bought with loot. The office of dictator remained unused for 150 years, until Sulla made himself temporary dictator illegally, with this exact reasoning:>>282510303>you could become a dictator for just a little bit, win the war, and then surrender your power.Sulla took power, pushed some constitutional reforms, prevented legal abuses by plebeian tribunes, fought corruption and set up a system that prevents future generals from seizing power (like he himself did). Then he stepped down and died a private citizen.Do we remember 'Sulla, the reformer'? No, we remember 'Sulla, the guy who marched on Rome'.And in the following decades, every idiot who thought the government was corrupt, would simply march on Rome. Millions of lives lost.Sulla was an evil asshole compared to Yang. Yang would be an excellent dictator, and reform the law in a great and benevolent way.And then he would have to step down.And then, maybe years later, another crisis would arise.And then another young, ambitious Admiral would say 'the government has failed! I will fix it! Just like Yang did!'And maybe that guy won't be as benevolent as Yang - but the precedent of legal change through armed force has already been set
>>282482451this is the most low IQ logh thread I've ever seen.
>>282504433the fire first half of the show is a jab on rampant autocracy, but the whole point of the entire series is that humanity worship politic until it expire itself out, dooming the entire human race with a cycle of war and peace. It literally spoon feed you at a certain episode, "perhaps there is a correct solution somewhere in this universe, but these human hand could only reach so far"
>>282512245The decades of chicanery and bloodshed ended with Augustus violently taking charge. And so the Empire began.With violence, you can reform a republic into an empire.With violence, you can reform an empire into a republic.With violence, you CANNOT reform a republic into a better republic - because you are only setting the precedent that illegal action within the system brings reform more expediently, than legal action could
>>282484025Speaking the truth is never pathetic, and the whore assuming you have a gf is peak foid behaviour
>>282508737the old logh ye, new logh no.That's why they re-release a logh game in the old logh design.
>>282512245Scipio didn't get banished. He left voluntary out of disgust. His friends and ally continued to win elections with his support.
>>282512003>They just need to wait for the inevitable war of the Diadochi.>implying that Reuenthal jr. isn't going to come out on top
>>282511598Romans had many stop gap dictators with many working out just fine. Cincinnatus is the best example. The burgers loved him so much, that Washington actually involved his name after transferring power after the war and after he voluntary stepped out of office following two terms. Also, name the city in Ohio after him.
>>282512331Cato still took credit for it, but you're right. The point was, that Rome saw how dangerous one man can become when the troops are all on his side. Scipio wasn't even dictator himself, but the enormous popularity of an ambitious man (far too young to even hold any high office) scared the shit out of the Senate.The office of dictator was last used in the 2nd Punic war, and never (legally) again - even in times of extreme crisis like the Cimbrian war or the Cataline conspiracy
>>282512445>CincinnatusPre-Brennus, thus Mythical
>>282512003I imagine that with the core of Mittermeyer and Hilda the empire has a good chance of surviving until Reinhard Jr. grows up. Consider also how the general public LOVES Reinhard, and how in general he and Oberstein made an effort to pick men loyal to the idea of the new empire, so I doubt anyone can just go ALRIGHT NOW I'M IN CHARGE or something. But over about 20 years various factions are gonna get embedded and it'll be the test of Reinhard's line to see whether or not they can actually take power back or not.
>>282506261There are two measure of success in a government. Its ability to care for its charges, and its ability to exert influence on the surrounding world, including the ability to sustain itself. The FPA, in some ways, seems to have done a better job in providing for its citizens. (But then again, an argument could be made that the Empire DID provide for its citizens - just that not everyone was a citizen)But the Empire undoubtedly had a greater ability to influence the surrounding world, especially under Reinhard. Reinhard's government was able to shift and change while the slow gears of democracy meant that the FPA could barely defend itself once the Empire came under the power of someone competent. Anyone who takes away from LotGH "This system of government bad and this system good" is a moron who's missing the point.
>>282500678>We see no ill effect from the enforced faux-primitivism of autocracyI'll be honest. I see something like this as almost inevitable. As we see more and more negative effects of over-reliance upon modern technology (ESPECIALLY the internet), "religions" and philosophies that believe in returning to lesser "developed" modes will grow in popularity and influence. In my mind, one of LotGH's big absences is religion. Of course, there's the Terraists, but we never see what sort of common religion regular Imperials or FPA citizens have. I can imagine that the FPA has a huge diversity of religion, just as it does of race and culture, since it was made up of people escaping Rudolf's enforced assimilation into pseudo-German society, but what exactly was the religion which Rudolf (more likely than not) enforced?Frankly I'd guess that it wasn't unlike most branches of Mennonite Christianity, in that it would encourage people using less electricity, etc
>>282507128Maybe watch the show before you talk about it.
>>282510416>rightfully concerned with the long-term ramifications of his decisionsThe dead envy the enfeebled.
>>282512245Alternatively
>>282512466>he and Oberstein made an effort to pick men loyal to the idea of the new empireA random crisis happens, and it becomes politically sound to say "Hilda and Mittenmeyer dishonour the memory of the Kaiser!"Or the budget is tight, fleets have to be disbanded - suddenly Bittenfeld could be out of a job and drunk and angry.Maybe there's a plague on a fringe planet, and people begin asking "why do we pay taxes to a baby again?!"There's a million ways this could all fail, before reforms stabilise the military dictatorship/Regency council with no constitution>the empire has a good chance of surviving until Reinhard Jr. grows upIf the kid doesn't turn out retarded, dead, or just a bad person (raised fatherless, born into wealth and power, never having to work, etc)One of the most important scenes in LOGH was Reinhard's opening of the Goldenbaum archive. He had a bit of a breakdown when he realized how quickly that dynasty degenerated. From gorious Rudolf, to some faggot eloping with a choirboy, in just a couple generations
>>282512761See >>282512483There were no legal dictators from 200BC forward. 200BC-150BC was the time when Rome grew to the size of an empire, while still conducting politics like a city state. From 130BC on, it's all just a failing struggle to make the system work, culminating in Augustus taking absolute charge, a century later
>>282512003The FPA (which also no longer exists except on paper, seriously it has lost not just its legitimacy, but also the entire bureaucratic apparatus that makes a state a state along with all its territory) won't win shit. The War of the Diadochi that will inevitably happen 4-5 years after Reinhards death will simply mean that the FPA's former territory will be divided between the territories of 2-3 of the ensuing dozen or so Warlord Admirals. At best one admiral might get fairly lucky and end up with his warlord kingdom encompassing the entirety of the FPA's old territory, but that's not the FPA "winning", just all of it technically being under the same military dictator instead of carved up between several.
>>282510073>being ruled by femboy Emperor and tomboy EmpressPerfect
For me it's reutenal x wolfgang. Sorry I'm not big brain to discuss politics until I finish
>>282513069>Dude dictatorship happens when people get bored!>There aren't any economic factors at all!>People commit crime as a form of thrill seeking! There definitely aren't underlying issues of stratified society or anything!
>>282513132Keep in mind this is written by a japanese who has never seen or interacted with a black person irl.
>>282510149For me is Fujisaki's Karin
>>282513173That artstyle needs to fucking go
>>282513132>There aren't any economic factors at all!You could assume that the technological and territorial stagnation of the Federation implies economic stagnation as well. And what was a relatively free frontier society, with some degree of social mobility, became stagnant as well.>People commit crime as a form of thrill seeking! There definitely aren't underlying issues of stratified society or anything!You're assuming the jap author has desire to tackle that issue, and stir up that hornets nest.
>>282482451If only Kircheis was still alive...
>>282513069how is this presented in the show? as a piece of accurate exposition? or as a biased in universe piece of propaganda? does yang or other characters comment on it?
>>282514076Julian is watching a video/documentary about history, so there's like 2 episodes I think that was basically just an in-universe documentary.
>>282484071Bad people deserve to die. You retarded boomers are all bark no bite.
>>282482451>chineseyuck
>>282510731Nobody gives a shit by the time people get on yang's case about not getting off his ass and running a military dictatorship. He is quite literally the only reason the politicians get away with sitting on their asses.
>>282513062
>>282514236I never understood her character
>>282512566The Empire doesn't really win the war by being better governed, it just wins by being bigger. More ships, more soldiers to run those ships, more slave labor to build those ships, more citizens in the population to maintain the economy despite losses, more years spent mining resources and industrializing their planets. The FPA, a nation of refugees that colonized their planets more recently, was always going to be smaller and weaker.Reinhard is only an underdog in one battle at the beginning of the series. The rest of the story is the Empire having the way stronger hand and fumbling in various ways.The logistics of "bigger number > smaller number" won the war, not governments.
>>282514250She wasn't well written, more of a plot device than a character, but it was basically:>close relative of Lichtenlade, PM under Fritz IV and Erwin Josef (boy emperor)>loses everything when Reinhardt turns on Lichtenlade and has him arrested>blames Reuenthal, because he was in charge of the arrest and purge>tries to murder him>fails and gets raped, and """tamed""" by the D>She and Reuenthal hatefuck for a while, she gets pregnant. Despite hating him, doesn't abort. Gives birth to Reuenthal's son.>fucks off, Rubinsky tries to use her as an asset, but he dies before that. So she gets used as "proof" that Reuenthal was conspiring with the old nobles by the Terraists(?).>Conviniently gets taken to Heinessen>meets Reuenthal as he dies and leaves their son with him.
>hmm... what I should I call the terrorist cult of earth...>AHA! Terraists! I truly am a genius.
>>282514346I feel like using her would have been a good way to examine Reuenthal's own character. Give him a chance to confront his childhood trauma and reflect more on fatherhood, but I guess that's not really want people expect from a space opera.
>>282514236If you think females are going to stop me from shipping them I have some news for you.Also yang x Siegfried is toptier
>>282503905Where is this interview from?
>>282514604Dunno, can't find its source on youtube, but the full lowres video has been in my PC since 2022, titled:>OTAKING “I think you can understand the reason why I admire Yoshiyuki Tomino” - Mobile Suit GundamFull video here: https://files.catbox.moe/z22rhu.mp4
>>282515273Thanks man. I was trying to search for it even on youtube to no avail. I found the comparison very interesting.
>>282482451And U are fucking moron.
>>282514346>fails and gets raped, and """tamed""" by the D
>>282502670Bittenfeld's genius when he's being used correctly on the battlefield.
>>282503905Read another book
>>282514345The Empire was ALWAYS bigger. Honestly I'm not super keen on some of the timelines of the series exactly (I think the FPA should be at least a few hundred years older than it was) but then again the "years" they quote could be longer than our modern Earth years.But FPA started at a huge disadvantage and survived by absorbing "rebels" for probably hundreds of years. We can imagine that by mid-empire, piracy was once again a huge issue just as it had been when Rudolf came to power (remember that he made his name fighting space pirates) and that the capacity of the Empire to really control all of its "territory" was pretty weak. For hundreds of years after the founding of Heinessen we can safely assume that people who were considered "unwanted" in the empire slowly but surely made their way into FPA territory during a time when the FPA was "officially" unknown/unrecognized and that only sped up after the "encounter" between the FPA and the Empire that began the war. Neither had a war economy or navy at the time so there were probably decades still where the "war" wasn't nearly all-encompassing enough to prevent people from defecting to the FPA. It's one of those things that's never really covered but I pretty safely assume about the course of events based mostly upon the sheer diversity in the FPA. Both of races and of surnames. In the Empire everyone has a Germanic surname, presumably because Rudolf enforced Germanic names and "traditions" upon the white population (leaving non-whites and those who refused to give up their heritage as second-class citizens at best)The Empire under Reinhard winning wasn't a matter of sheer population or the Empire would have won ages ago.
>>282501876>Reinhard believed in the benevolence of yang and wanted to recruit himSpeaking of irony Wang foreshadowed from the very beginning that he would end up assassinated by a terrorist>One can easily imagine a superior timeline in which he successfully recruited him and the total casualties of the entire war were minimized to the absolutely lowest possible and their entire regime enjoying the longest lasting golden age>easilyUh... no?Yang was vehemently against autocracy even if it meant bad governance, despite recognizing the quality of Reinhard.It would be easier imagining Wang killing Reinhard when he had the occasion, rationalizing "disobeying" under the logic that a decision taken under duress is not legitimate. Accepting that he would then have to explain his reasons and fight against people wanting him as an autocrat.
>>282504433That's not subtlety at all, that's shortcuts that end up pushing the opposite message.What happened in Westerland is easily shown as extra reason for authoritarianism "just support the autocrat who kill people on a whim" and corruption in democracies will kill just as many people through corruptions, engineered poverty or actual massacre, they'll just pretend to be the voice of the people doing so.It's preaching that autocracy would let you know exactly who to serve/kill.Against a system that let culprits pass the blame.Also, we have current IRL example of "democracies" committing genocides, and I'm not even speaking of the one using bombs.As that anon >>282501021 said, the slow erosion of democratic failsafe should have been portrayed explicitly, along with autocratic mindless obedience and corruption at every level (even under the golden autocrat rule) if the show had intended it to be an actual autocracy vs democracy, instead of showing autocracy vs inefficient-autocracy.
>>282484071Because Ethics are preached by those who hold a monopoly on force in order to keep you subservient, telling you that it's immoral if you use force yourself. >hard power for me but not for theeAnd most zoomers to their credit see right through it.
>>282506700>We must kill the enemy even their chickens and donkeys.As much as I understand they were traitorous quisling collaborating with evil, I still think they can be reformed into proper lifestock if put into a new pen and executing them and their families would be a waste of meat.
>>282502670Just accept the traps and go through.
>>282509438She sure chose the right horse to get close to.He effectively becomes the most important and powerful person in the neo-democracy, in a prime position to reform the new empire along the autocrat in chief.
>>282510416>the precedent would be set that in times of emergency, a military leader has the right - or responsibility, even - to suspend democracy and enforce his own will upon the Republic for the 'greater good.'Oh horrible!Let's instead set the precedent that in time of emergency, you are better giving up democracy altogether to an autocrat for "the greater good" of the ...autocracy I guess.
>>282521837>the precedent would be set that in times of emergency, a military leader has the right - or responsibility, even - to suspend democracy and enforce his own will upon the Republic for the 'greater good.'Sound more like what you frogs did by putting Petain in charge. And,>De Gaulle>being the leader of anything other than a glorified mutiny>and achieving anything other than "saving" face for FranceAnd before you frogs start moaning about it, you lot were still calling Petain "the modern Leonidas" and "the Lion of Verdun" hours before he signed that surrender.
>>282512653Couldn't disagree more. People want their modern convenience.The only "simplification" in technology would come from a megacorporation taking control and enforcing only their products all synergizing in looks in a "simple" propaganda with AI-regulated internet glorifying how the CEO-god want us be.Think Apple taking control led by Musk.>In my mind, one of LotGH's big absences is religion.No disagreement here but that's because plenty of things are missing from LoGH.That said, I believe that no space-faring civilization could stick with any "retarded religion". Any philosophy that arise would endorse science and imply a goal like digital transcendence or spreading life through the universe.The Terraist were also silly in that I wouldn't imagine mankind just giving up their homeworld, even if turned unlivable.>but what exactly was the religion which Rudolf (more likely than not) enforced?Eugenics. It is a religion, not backed by actual science or it would be transhumanism.Eugenics is built solely upon superficial appearance, it follows dogmas you are not allowed to critic, and it can exist in as many variant as there are starting points."just trust us! the jeans pool will be cleaner once we are all inbred."
>>282521286People have no idea how hard that image actually goes. Fact Reuenthal was a great duelist gets glossed over.
>>282523893In one of the gaiden he fought three duels in a row because some roastie got pissed he dumped her, winning all three with only a minor wound to show for it while his opponents all ended up hospitalized. Got demoted with no fucks given.Guy was always a legend, but we didn't get to see much of it before his fight with Schönkopf so it came as a shock for them to be on such even footing.
>>282522558Petain surrendered to an enemy state then cooperated with the regime, he is basically Job Trunicht.De Gaulle fought to free France then went on to make France a nuclear superpower. That would be Yang if the deck still had card to play that weren't all in the Empire hands.Without De Gaulle, France would either be a Nazi slave state, or a middle power state.
>>282524273>De Gaulle fought to free FranceGetting carried by the Brits and Yanks for face saving purposes is fighting in the loosest sense.>then went on to make France a nuclear superpower.The guys in office between 1946 and his election in 1958 did that. He just got to test the weapons after they were finished. Also,>France>superpowerLol.>Without De Gaulle, France would either be a Nazi slave state, or a middle power state.Without De Gaulle, Giraud or Leclerc would have led the free french forces. And the resistance would have fought even if the not one of those generals had decided to "fight" on. Nazi defeat was inevitable. And by the time of the Suez Crisis 1954, France already was a middle power state, and getting those nukes in 1960 didn't turn it back into a great power.
how long will the Empire last? one thought I had about Reinhard's line founded by coup is legitimate then why wouldn't future generals do the same?
i see.. the key to a lotgh thread is to shit on yang and talk /pol/ rather than the in universe politics
>>282482451he's why I dropped the show. supposed to be some sort of uber genius, is actually a complete midwit surrounded by retards, with occasional magic foresight literally sherlock-tier.
>>282519222>>282514345>>282512566Contemporarily we can now compare FPA to Ukraine and the old empire to Russia. FPA was way smaller, but since it actually accomplished baseline competency they were punching way over their weight. Meanwhile, the old empire was basically running on inertia from the pure mass of having more planets, more citizens and more stuff. Reinhard was basically a modern Peter the Great forcing Russia to modernize and enter the modern age, thus reaching battlefield parity with FPA.Like, the empire at the start of the series is unironically a joke. A majority of their planets are severely underdeveloped and even their capital planet seem to be severely lacking in infrastructure. You had more infrastructure concentrated in a single city in FPA, with Phezzan being contemporary with FPA.The empire was a JOKE before Reinhard.
>>282523381>People want their modern convenience.It's human nature to seek religion. As traditional religions fade new ones will emerge. It's inevitable. I merely believe that a significant force in the religious-philosophical realm in the future will people who decide to draw a line in the sand regarding technology. For some that could be living like the Amish, or living like '60s Americans, or living as feudal peasants. In fact, in an empire as large as The Empire, I think all three modes and more will exist. I just assume that, since we don't see their religion and yet "retvrn to peasantry" is so common, it makes sense that some degree of "retvrn to peasantry" is part of that religion. Which also fits in with the fact that the FPA has a much "further" level of technology accessible to the common citizens than in the Empire. It's easy to boil it down to "evil nobles want to oppress the people by not letting them have smartphones" but I wouldn't be surprised if, on many of the "loyal" Imperial planets, it's mostly ground-level religion that keeps people "primitive."Hell, I can imagine a conflict between a landlord who wants to force his people to start using tractors and neo-Mennonites who refuse to give up their oxen.
>>282514345>The Empire doesn't really win the war by being better governed, it just wins by being biggerI'm pretty sure that the FPA were governing poorly when they sent their entire fleet into a meat grinder.
>>282526058Merkatz should've ditched those republican losers and built a new Empire somewhere else with Erwin Josef II
>>282513069And yet this being came in the form of the unification of the strategies of Yin(reinhard) and Yang.>>282506878Like weapons of mass destruction, the expectation of a civilized space faring people would be they're never used, until some madmen of course betray that civility and childishly sling their putrefying evils into everyones destinies. This is balanced by other massive technological advancements that LOTGH is curiously missing: in the time super space lasers are evaporating entire space ships, every soldiers brain will be (if tards aren't in charge) augmented with a nigh indestructible orb containing all their memories and, hopefully, soul, if true divine inspiration permits. A 'space geneva convention' will require the careful recollection of each of these orbs scattered throughout the battle wreckage so that all soldiers will be refabricated in the wars aftermath, otherwise, as you say, most intelligent beings will be totally unwilling to participate in such primitive and wasteful conflict, unless corralled via the typical bemoaned mindcontrol tactics of modern day. Expecting average human mentality to mature, 'space sheeple' will likely be extremely resistant to such tactics, thus requiring some horrifyingly potent method of respawning. Invention of soul spheres or parallel equivalents are what allows moralistic monkeys to guilt free engage in relativistic space warfare...>>282520156Your pic is exactly the problem I had: I know it is relatively unfeasible, but if yang, reinhard, all of their constituents - if they all could have had this conversation together on interstellar TV - minus all the boisterous charismatic passive aggressive posturing of course - could they not have reached some far more agreeable and immediate conclusion, a true mending of humanity? And I know it would be anticlimactic and entirely against the point of an entertaining show. This is just what my head canon fantasizes about when trying to imagine a superior timeline.
>>282526152>and even their capital planet seem to be severely lacking in infrastructureIt was clearly kept like that on purpose (and obviously show creators wanted it to look like XVIII century Europe). On the other hand Empire had two Death Star-like battlestations at the start of the show.
>>282525730>why wouldn't future generals do the same?Because Reinhard was a beloved ruler and the cult around him will only grow stronger after his death. The real challenge for the dynasty is not to die out within first few generations.
>>282501021>The entire war should have been portrayed less as 19th century napoleon war in spaceIts principal influence is a 3rd Century Chinese War. LoGH would be very different if it was based on the Napoleonic Wars.>and more 20th century cold war of ideologies with conspiracies and subterfuge being hatched at every moment.There's no shortage of subterfuge and conspiracies in the show already. But I'm thinking back to that one Imperial guy whose name I forget. Who without backing from any coconspirators or institution, hopes to create a Technocracy. But he ends up getting killed in something totally unrelated before he can even tell anyone about it. Unlike the Cold War, there's only 2.5 countries and a non-state actor in the universe. Both partisans within each of these country's borders are not seeking the radical restructuring of society. Those thoughts only exist on an individual level.
>>282527854Yeah, that's what I mean about the old empire having a lot more stuff. More vanity projects accumulated from centuries of human development.Meanwhile FPA had to restart basically from scratch but somehow managed to be more developed than the empire. Now sure, the empire had a "vibe", but we also have to remember that infrastructure actually fucking matters for economics. All those modern, fancy things that were accessible to everyday FPA people? That shit would significantly increase their productivity compared to the imperial peasants who were still doing manual labours in their fields. Imperial underdevelopment in their colonies was palpable and it must've been significantly kneecapping their ability to wage an effective war to the supposedly inferior FPA.In fact we do know that at the start of the series FPA and the empire was actually economically comparable with each other according to Phezzan analysis (FPA had a worse debt situation though, which makes sense considering they didn't have access to the Empire's stores of generational wealth). That shit makes no sense really unless most of the empire was literal backwaters.
>>282527686Merkatz was like Bewcock and Kircheis, his heart and soul was pure and uncorrupted.
>>282510416>While Schenkopf had a pragmatic argument, Yang, as a historian, was more forward thinking and rightfully concerned with the long-term ramifications of his decisions. If he took over the Republic, even if it was only for a little while so that he could cleanse the government of corruption and win the war with the Empire, the precedent would be set that in times of emergency, a military leader has the right - or responsibility, even - to suspend democracy and enforce his own will upon the Republic for the 'greater good.' Something similar happened in the Roman Republic, with dictators being elected by the Senate with absolute power to win wars and settle crises. While an elected dictator did not end up seizing power directly (or not for long anyway), Rome eventually began to see having a single, authoritative leader who knew how to get shit done as more beneficial than the ineffectual Senate that grew increasingly corrupt and useless. When Julius Caesar took over, then Augustus and all the Emperors to follow him, the Roman public and government were already primed to accept a single absolute ruler no matter what the Senate tried to do to stop it.People on here watched all of LotGH yet are too stupid to identify an AI post.
>>282527680Both sides wipe out their own fleets a few times. The author only remembers to have permanent consequences when the FPA does it.
>>282514345>>The Empire doesn't really win the war by being better governed, it just wins by being bigger. More ships, more soldiers to run those ships, more slave labor to build those ships, more citizens in the population to maintain the economy despite losses, more years spent mining resources and industrializing their planets. The FPA, a nation of refugees that colonized their planets more recently, was always going to be smaller and weaker.>>Reinhard is only an underdog in one battle at the beginning of the series. The rest of the story is the Empire having the way stronger hand and fumbling in various ways.>>The logistics of "bigger number > smaller number" won the war, not governments.The FPA was close enough in size and tech to be a rival to the Imperials up until the Amritzer debacle. After that, the gap between the FPA and Empire became totally insurmountable.
>>282520156>>Uh... no?>Yang was vehemently against autocracy even if it meant bad governance, despite recognizing the quality of Reinhard.>It would be easier imagining Wang killing Reinhard when he had the occasion, rationalizing "disobeying" under the logic that a decision taken under duress is not legitimate. Accepting that he would then have to explain his reasons and fight against people wanting him as an autocrat.Not that anon but Yang is self-critical throughout the series about all the casualties mounting because of the fighting he's doing for his ideology. In the show Yang even questions the morality of fighting Reinhard to begin with and acknowledges him as a benevolent ruler. It's not far-fetched at all there could be a timeline where he chooses to take Reinhard's offer, in an effort to bring about a greater peace. Also you're a retard.
>>282482451That old terrorist, I forgive hi—ACK
>>282532580>Both sides wipe out their own fleets a few times. The author only remembers to have permanent consequences when the FPA does it.I remember Bittenfeld being reduced to some shitty combined fleet (with I think the remnants of Farenheight's after he died). Reinhard and his inner-circle really didn't suffer any significant fleet losses aside from that. Kempff died and lost his fleet too, I think the only inconsistency may be Muller still having a fleet after losing Geiersburg with Kempff. It was really only the FPA and Goldenbaum loyalists that ever lost fleets and Yang's fleet was constantly replenished.
>>282533103The Reuenthal and Mittermeyer fleets go to town against each other in the fourth season but it's totally cool no big deal.
Did you not realize that the characters in the series have obvious flaws? Reinhart also goes fucking insane halfway through the series. They make a point of saying that Wenli can never lose a battle but he can win wars. He even explicitly says that his ideology is his undoing when Heinessen orders him to withdraw his troops from Iserlohn but he does it anyways. He actually does learn his lesson and creates the resistance on his own but then the terrorism of the terra cult cuts his life short. Wenli says earlier in the series that terrorism stops the flow of history, rather than progressing it, so his downfall is intentionally ironic because he refused to use terrorism in his own resistance.Ultimately Yang's death feeds Reinhart's madness even further though, because he desperately wants to see Wenli as his equal to overcome. The fact he doesn't get to defeat Wenli on the battlefield is what causes his illness to kill him in the end. They're both obsessed with ideas rather than the real circumstances, which is why Julian becomes the true hero of the series.
>>282512566>>There are two measure of success in a government. Its ability to care for its charges, and its ability to exert influence on the surrounding world, including the ability to sustain itself. >The FPA, in some ways, seems to have done a better job in providing for its citizens. (But then again, an argument could be made that the Empire DID provide for its citizens - just that not everyone was a citizen)>But the Empire undoubtedly had a greater ability to influence the surrounding world, especially under Reinhard. Reinhard's government was able to shift and change while the slow gears of democracy meant that the FPA could barely defend itself once the Empire came under the power of someone competent. >>Anyone who takes away from LotGH "This system of government bad and this system good" is a moron who's missing the point.I think this posts nails the dynamics of the FPA and Empire perfectly. A lot of posts after are talking about the Empire being backwards, but they're the ones who created the fortresses like Iserlohn, invented directional seffer particle attacks (FPA has no idea this is possible and never finds out), and can create cutting edge ships like Reinhard's and Kircheis' that the FPA would never be able to make.It's obvious there is a hierarchy in the Empire, with the lowest class being the shitty serf worlds we see in the OVA. We see what are probably normal citizens in the Gaidens when Kircheis and Reinhard go to that space resort and try to solve a murder there.All in all I think the main purpose of the story is to show that eventually everything becomes shitty, even what was legendary, and that leads to massive societal change. When we start watching is when the FPA had become shitty but it wasn't always like that and started out grand. It's not really about democracy vs autocracy, just what leads to massive societal upheaval.
>>282533311Julian and Kircheis imo, despite his early demise, Kircheis's main objetive were the same as Reinhard, first was to topple the current dinasty, second, make peace and coexist with the Alliance and third, rescue her girlfriend Annerose and breed 10+ little Kircheis/Anneroses.
>>282533311>He actually does learn his lesson and creates the resistance on his own but then the terrorism of the terra cult cuts his life short. Wenli says earlier in the series that terrorism stops the flow of history, rather thanHe never learned his lesson, he died on his way to peace talks with Reinhard. He was never going to mount a continued resistance and becoming essentially an isolated hermit state in Iserlohn. He did not see Iserlohn as a legitimate sovereign without the backing of El Facil.
>>282533326>It's not really about democracy vs autocracy, just what leads to massive societal upheaval.You're sort of choosing to see the series through Yang Wenli's perspective. He's the only person in the whole series that cares about that stuff. Kirchleis and Reinhart literally don't even understand the purpose of democracy and just ask straightforward questions about what he believes when they get the chance. Reinhart only does what he does because he promised to see the promise through to Kircheis, he really doesnt give a shit about how stable the regime is. That's why he basically needs to be begged to produce an heir.Reinhart wanted to replace Kircheis with Yang, seeing him as somebody that was his slight inferior but still deserving of his full respect. The fact he couldn't conquer the will of Wenli or Julian ultimately proves that he was unable to conquer the entire galaxy. That's why he leaves Iserlohn to Julian, representing the fact that he was able to abandon his dream at the very end out for respect for his foes. As soon as he gives up on his dream, he dies because it was the only think keeping him going after his sister and friend die.
>>282533521>Julian and Kircheis imo, despite his early demise, Kircheis's main objetive were the same as Reinhard, first was to topple the current dinasty, second, make peace and coexist with the Alliance and third, rescue her girlfriend Annerose and breed 10+ little Kircheis/Anneroses.Yeah, that's true. Ultimately both Julian and Kircheis are the ones that can see the human side of life while Wenli and Lohengram are so obsessed with the big picture that they let their individual personhoods collapse into a role within history. Kircheis dies before Reinhard which is a huge tragedy, because he no longer has somebody to ground him to reality. Wenli dies before Julian which is sort of a blessing because Julian sees the human side of conflict. He even ultimately uses Reinhart's personality quirks as his strategy to achieve his goals in an utterly unwinnable battle. Wenli the tactician would never think about an approach that focused on the humanity of his opponents, but Julian was super in tune with it as well as Reinhart just from one meeting with him.
>>282533574Agree to disagree on that. I think with his getting married and stuff he was starting to accept his own limited options.
>>282533594>Reinhart wanted to replace Kircheis with Yang, seeing him as somebody that was his slight inferior but still deserving of his full respect. The fact he couldn't conquer the will of Wenli or Julian ultimately proves that he was unable to conquer the entire galaxy. That's why he leaves Iserlohn to Julian, representing the fact that he was able to abandon his dream at the very end out for respect for his foes. As soon as he gives up on his dream, he dies because it was the only think keeping him going after his sister and friend die.Reinhard was a total spiteful asshole though to not continue the peace talks with Iserlohn after Yang died. It was what Kircheis would've wanted instead of forcing Julian in to a suicidal confrontation with him. I think Annerose also realized this side of Reinhard existed which is why she distance himself from him, the grief from this ultimately leading to his death.
>>282533752Yeah, I agree. I think this bolsters my point though. That Julian was like another Kircheis and Reinhart saw that in him and it rekindled his humanity to redeem him at the last moment. He was able to accept the defeat of his dream not through tactics, but by meeting his opponent face to face and watching the valiant sacrifice of the Rosen Ritter. He could no longer see himself as the superior to Wenli or Julian, and so he ultimately gave them the respect they deserved all along. Reinhart's unimpeded narcissism is definitely an underdiscussed part of the narrative for fan debates about the series.
>>282484109That's an exaggeration, but the show does have a bias in favor of the Empire, or at least it shows them in a very romanticized way. I remember there was an episode after Yang Wen-li's death, in which several admirals from the Empire mourn him, and a character (I believe it was Müller?) remarks how warmly the people of Iserlohn received him and compliments Frederica, and the episode ends with the people in Iserlohn chanting about wanting to kill the Kaiser like a group of maniacs.
>>282533705>Agree to disagree on that. I think with his getting married and stuff he was starting to accept his own limited options.That's why I feel like Iserlohn wouldn't have lasted if Yang didn't die. He loves his friends and family and wouldn't want them to die pointlessly trapped in a giant ball. If the peace talks fell through I just don't personally see Yang continuing the battle unless massive defections occur to reinforce Iserlohn.
>>282533821>If the peace talks fell through I just don't personally see Yang continuing the battle unless massive defections occur to reinforce Iserlohn.I feel like you're forgetting the beginning of the resistance arc though. Wenli literally wants to stop fighting and surrended, but basically everybody has to beg for him to come back for him to become the leader. He even accepts that he'll probably die when he does it, and sorta mourns himself when he accepts the leadership. Wenli cannot deny the wishes of other people consistently throughout the series, despite what he wants. IMO he legitimately does want to retire and leave the war behind, but he keeps being forced into the role because he's the only one competent enough for the job. Because of his ideology, he just can't abandon something he sees as his responsibility. You can tell by the time he dies he really hates being a hero, and he even says that heroes become martyrs and doesn't want any of that. That's why I think he learned his lesson about how there's more to life than history.
>Here in the Iserlohn Republic, we all love democracy. That's why Yang Wenli's wife is going to become our de facto political representative, and his adopted son will become our commander. :^) If you don't like it, you can fuck off.
>>282533925>here in america, we love democracy>that's why we elected the supreme military commander of the war as our first president
holy fuck I didn't read the thread yet but I'm pretty impressed /a/ is competent enough to talk about LOTGH
>>282534564My side good, your side bad.
>>282484562
>>282534601
>>282485760This is the truth. Monarchies are both the most common type of regime and the most stable.
>>282521041That's what I've been telling LoGHfags for years. They seethe every single time I bring similar points, even though I genuinely enjoyed the anime itself.
>>282534564It's not too hard if you finished high school and paid attention to certain subjects, Anon. But true, LotGH requires more knowledge than "muh shounenshit" to understand it and enjoy it.
>>282521041>Against a system that let culprits pass the blame.https://youtu.be/PAF5ndzCj3g?t=38I mean LoGH adresses this directly. Wenli says the point of democracy is to make all of society responsible for the injustices of the government. Part of the reason he's so unwilling to take power is because he feels like he would take on the moral culpability of his actions if he makes the decisions for the FPA. That fear of moral responsibility is the biggest reason why he's such a simp for liberalism
Wen is fundamentally an ideologue of the worst kind The moral of his story is not to be blind by ideology no matter how liberal or free it is. It does you no good without power. Where as the on the side of Empire- they don't care about that at all. You might say that makes them simple minded but in truth, they probably understand reality the best and bend the world to their will.
>>282537505You're missing the point. Neither Reinhart nor Wenli have the "right" answer. Wenli is too humble, Reinhart is too arrogant. Wenli doesn't seek enough power, Reinhart becomes obsessed with domination to the point he loses the respect of Kircheis and his sister and becomes miserable. The only "bad guy" in LoGH are the terrarists.
>>282485760>monarchies lasted as a form of government for thousands of years>>282535041>the truthMonarchies had hilariously simple logistical issues to manage. Of COURSE a single human can handle caveman era conflicts. You lot are out of your minds.Democracy is 'falling apart' because the pace of human advancement is absolutely terrifying from a logistical point of view. Even if a perfect specimen inhabited each and every single office of governmental control, a relatively endless list of problems will STILL arise.The only functional format for a monarchy is the modern british take - a poster child family with heightened ambassadorial functionality, flag bearers for 'their' empire, meanwhile the real governmental cogs fume and tear their grey hairs out behind closed doors.I really hope you're just romanticized about the idea of a big daddy-mommy 'god emperor' taking care of all your problems, a literal god amongst mortals sweeping every day woes from every sufferer. But you should read deeper into warhammer 40K and understand that even the god emperor possessed massive priceless armies of logisticians keeping his power flowing.
>>282482451A complete chad you mean
Democracy can be good if the secret cabal is benevolent.Though they wouldn't have much incentive to be benevolent since their puppets take all the flak.
>>282539537The elites in a democracy are as much polarised as the populace. The idea that they're all work in towards a common goal is demostrably untrue.
>>282540368I'm sure when they're fucking kids on the islands they have different preferences.>The idea that they're all work in towards a common goal is demostrably untrue.Last 10 years have proven without any doubt that it's true.
>>282540660In a 10 year frame, look at how big tech has changed. There is a hierarchy even within the elites, with the classes on the bottom requiring the patronage of those on top. Both the people constituting the classes on top and the order of classes are flexible in democracy.The Epstein files does include people from across different groups, but even within that, you can see how the elites all seem to have different ways to hide it. Trump's initial attempt to champion the cause of unveiling it is different from how the likes of Cliton has moved.
>>282488810>When the monarchy becomes too weak or the democracy too corruptThey are not a separate thing, they can secretly control either the democracy or monarchy.But when the monarchy gets out of line everyone knows who's at fault and needs to go, with democracy it's a never ending stream of puppets you "chose", and the responsibility is placed on you, leaving the cabal exempt.
>>282541017You will have to name the study, because I can't find anything that specific anywhere.Generally in a democracy, people, elite or pleb, hold different opinions but agree on the limits of acceptance ideas as is the nature of an overton window.In the context of US, those ideas of migration and globalization was what, atleast until now, fell within the framework of it. Shifts that occur towards one pole is something that moves not just with the plebs but also the elites.For example, look at what small business owners such as farmers are saying about the tarriffs impacting their fortunes. There are people who are potentially looking at bankruptcy, so not exactly elite.
Fuck this this thread feels like a fever dream to read through. This might also be the most walls of text thread I've ever read through in my life.>>282485760Your definition of "Falling apart around us" is incredibly vague. The troubles that some governments are going through today are absolutely trivial to issues that where 100, 200 or a 1000 years ago. Democracy is the evolution of dealing with issues at a rapid pace, peoples priorities change around them dependent on there issues & how they believe the current day government is reacting to them. It is pretty wonderfully put in episode 51 with the first meeting of Reinhardt and Yang Wen-Li:>the right to violate the rights of the people belongs to the peopleI Have my own strong personal beliefs around democracy and the right to vote. Personally, I think their is no situation were an individual shouldn't vote if they have the chance to. Your vote is the strongest voice you will ever have. Under a monarchy / oligarchy, that voice is zero.On something completely irrelevant. Here is a "lost" pilot / English dub for LoGH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR89IiGkLZ4 Hearing the exact same tone as Light Yagami just fucking grates me.
>muh democracy is le good because it just is>no it is le bad actuallyHoly fucking deep. Anime is such a great medium.
>watch the show>got blown away by it>check forum>everyone thinks that the show is pretentious and shallow
>>282541741It's deep only in context of what you get in anime. That doesn't mean it's bad or anime is bad. It just doesn't show much nuance in it's poltics.
>>282510303Please study some roman history
>>282510416The Roman Republic also had Cincinnatus, though I appreciate that Yang was more making a comparison to Sulla.Or in more modern times, the Wellington/Nelson to Reinhardt's Napoleon.
What's it like being loved?
>>282542074Yang isn't Sulla. Sulla had the nuts to step up and be the dictator that Rome needed. If Sulla acted like Yang he would've ended up just like him, dead in his prime. Sulla lived to be 60 years old before he finally died of health problems in his estate while living retired with his family. And all because he decided to become dictator to purge corruption.
>>282533945America really lucked out that Washington really, really did not want the job. He could've been president for life if he wanted.
>>282542266America has the most arable land in the world and some of the highest productivity in terms of worker per capita and land use. Even if US farmers today changed what it grows, they would still be producing way more than what they domestically consume. This is why America is the biggest producer and exporter over countries with far more cheaper workers engaged in that sector.This Isn't really a small vs big farmer issues as much it's about what they grow, because while basedbean farmers are only talking about doom and gloom, shrimp farmers, both small and big, couldn't be more happy with how things are turning out.
>>282507773NTA, that's a cool comparison, I appreciate it.I guess you could try a mix of what your encoding produces alongside with the raw LD frames where the encoding fucks up.But that's a colossal amount of work and an insane timesink and I'm not even sure if it'd look half decent by the end of it.
>>282510971Thanks for reminding me
>>282484358
>>282545148Dzhokhar Dudayev, circa 1996
>>282542325This is why people who act too high minded for greatman theory are wrong.
>>282532942>defend a fanfiction against>call other retard
>>282527796>if yang, reinhard, all of their constituents - if they all could have had this conversation together on interstellar TVHaving both of them talking to each other would have triggered a wisdom overload, a singularity in space and time that would have shattered the mind of anyone watching.Add Kircheis and the war would end that day, followed by a platinum age lasting until the end of the Universe.
>>282533326>A lot of posts after are talking about the Empire being backwardsThe opposite, the show is a monarchy wank and your examples are more demonstration of it.Somehow the monarchic empire who glorify medievalism (which would require a thought police and controlling everyone's habit), that monarchy where no talent but being the son of a noble would entitle you to be put in charge of industries, somehow that monarchy can still develop revolutionary technologies?The whole balance should have been the underdog with higher technologies but lesser means, versus a collapsing empire only staying up by throwing meats into the grinder.Reinhard should have been incapable of ruling such a Top-Down system "fairly" simply because the people under him would rather create Potemkin village "following his orders" than give up their powers.And if fairness is restored... the inevitable conclusion is democracy.
>>282534564/a/ has talked about this show pretty much as long as the board has existed, but it was old news even when 4chan was new so it's not like it had daily threads even in the old days. It's always been a recurring topic though.
>>282547187Sometimes too much IS attributed to one man, but there are a few individuals where everything truly did hinge on their character and their choices.
>>282537311Wenli is absolutely right in principle, but in LoGH it only serves to show "look, the people wanted a dictator all along".And the "population" as a moral character is never shown acting collectively, or punished for their collective dumb choice."Democracy" as portrayed by LoGH is just a bunch of bureaucrat flocking to autocrat Trunicht or genius and them failing or chickening out.>That fear of moral responsibility is the biggest reason why he's such a simp for liberalismWhile true, it's hypocrite from a military man. The fact that no proper pro-democracy politician appeared to take these responsibilities (regardless if the plot says the FPA have to lose).The resulting message is "look, in democracy only get you crooks or someone who chicken out" and "Monarchy rule! you just have to kill monarchs until you get the right one!"
I am downloading reaktor's movie pack. Is Golden Wings necessary?
>>282488810>>282540959>The truth of the matter is that the system of hierarchy barely matters while the thing that really matters is the quality of people in charge.nta, that part is just wrong. The system -define- the quality of people you get in charge.A democracy automatically refresh the people in charge by default.It takes corruption to prevent this refresh and by this point it's on its way to oligarchy.Meanwhile the reality that's not shown in LoGH is that Oligarchy (let alone monarchy) do not select for skills but only for loyalty to the system, you could have the greatest oligarch, the system will remain shit unless turned into democracy.The only other failure state of democracy is loosening the power of the system (through laws) until there's no longer a system but separate entities.
>>282550404No, and you're better off getting the new remasters for the movies, which retain the original aspect ratio.Golden Wings was a manga tie-in. It has a different VA cast and uses the old manga designs. Skipping it loses nothing.
>>282550123I think that that's true, but only if you're disregarding the cultural context the medium expects to meet you at. LoGH expects you're a liberal, and it intentionally creates the setting where liberalism is on the backfoot in order to test the ideal to its extremes. It's actually extremely similar to how Vinland Saga chooses to show pacifism. That despite all the reasons why it can be a terrible ideology the main character still chooses to believe in it (again partly out of a fear of taking moral responsibility for killing). It's sorta clear in LoGH that Wenli absolutely just hates war. He would have been psychologically destroyed at Astarte if he couldn't offload his blame onto the system. The irony is he sees democracy for exactly what it is, a system where everybody needs to take responsibility, but ultimately struggles on a deep level to do that with himself. There are similar conflicts with Reinhart. Reinhart wants to see himself as the ultimate monarch capable of bringing equality and a good life for others, but he's consistently relying on his best generals to see that through. He is employing democratic principles in his autocracy because it is legitimately the most efficient way to govern. He also acts like a hypocrite around Obelstein especially. He's extremely happy to get cloak and dagger with Obelstein, but he never directly takes responsibility for the plans Obelstein makes despite the point of an autocracy being that the leader is responsible. By the end of the series Obelstien is getting seriously abused by the generals because of Reinhart's pride.Reinhart also is the reason why Kircheis dies, and his ideology literally implodes. He wanted to make himself stand above all other peop[le in the galaxy to be it's ultimate ruler, but that ends up really being impossible. He ends up finding equals in both his enemies and his friends and his own worldview of being some uniquely competent philosopher king falls apart.
>>282541648>>the right to violate the rights of the people belongs to the peopleA more accurate translation is, "Only the people can violate the rights of the people." It should be clear from his following critique of autocracy that the system essentially allows the people to foist responsibility for their own failings on the autocrat.>Under a monarchy / oligarchy, that voice is zeroIf so, the people would never be able discuss their dissatisfactions with one another, hold an audience, or coordinate a deposition, let alone carry it out. It's not that a government shouldn't exist without the consent of the governed, in a holistic sense it literally can't. More accurately, a government's efficacy will scale with the portion of the population who consent. I don't think that principle holds completely true anymore due to engineered consent, highlighted most in totalitarian prisons like the DPRK, but it's an issue of information control and censorship, not voting.
>>282550404You actually just watch the 110 series and nothing else. Everything else is supplimentary and of inferior quality.
>>282484065>He's actually the smartest guy on the show, smarter than Reinhard evenHe's really not. He understands on an intellectual level that democracy is a joke, but his ego prevents him from doing what is actually needed (i.e do for the Alliance what Reinhard does for the Empire). Its a great anime in a lot of ways but people pretending its a masterpiece when the latter part of it is just one huge cop-out are as deluded as Yang. Its actually disgusting the way they ruined such a promising story and setup. Everything neatly resolves with Julian saving the day and also lets forget about these religious extremists they all get magically wiped out instantly its not like ideas (whether you agree with them or not) can survive indefinitely and never truly be rooted out by brute force.
>>282550123>The resulting message is "look, in democracy only get you crooks or someone who chicken out" and "Monarchy rule! you just have to kill monarchs until you get the right one!"That's not the actual message. Sure enough when you get a good autocrat, that's as good as it will ever get, everyone knows that. However we can't guarantee good autocrats, everyone knows this too.That doesn't necessarily mean democracy is preferable to even an average autocrat though, or rather its impossible to really distinguish between them in reality. People here are arguing as if the real world equivalent in their minds, western democracy, is at least the lesser evil but that is pure and simple delusion. Any kind of democracy beyond the smallest possible scale (a family, maybe a tribe) will be co-opted by the powerful in that society (depending on other factors this could be a near hereditary class of party members, oligarchs, deep state actors, etc). It is not the will or consent of the masses that govern, consent is easily manufactured. So in the context of Logh the discussion is retarded, because as a viewer you know that Reinhard is the real deal and as good as it gets, and Yang's moral posturing only exacerbates the suffering of the people in the end.
>>282551276I think you're downplaying how important Rudolf is for the moral decisions Wenli makes. Rudolf started out as a "good autocrat" but he went insane and killed billions and started a multi-hundreds dynasty of tyranny. Wenli sees that as the ultimate evil that must never come to pass. He's so obsessed with history that he can't see the future unfolding a different way.
>>282550679>It's actually extremely similar to how Vinland Saga chooses to show pacifism
>>282550679Dang I hope this thread don't die while I answer.LoGH does portray conflict and conflict in Reinhart ambition, but far less than he should have been facing and he is only taken down by space aid.The only moral conflict Reinhart truly faced was considering to let the Westland massacre happen (until it's taken out of his hand) so the population would support him, and it barely bit him when he is at the very top of his power, essentially reaching the goal he had all along, he'll die a hero for most, making oligarchy look great.Wenli on the other side just... chicken out. He is somehow capable of taking responsibility for an entire fleet deciding the future of mankind, but somehow not capable of ...defending it for pretty obvious reason, no government decision can be considered legit under duress.Him deciding to join a resistance latter that doesn't have much population backing it and does in fact revolve entirely around himself to beat the odd just show how bad that decision was.But I'm not saying he shouldn't have made it to illustrate the point. I'm saying the population of the FPA should have been portrayed as the colossus democracies typically are. That should have been the part where Reinhart discovers a population who know better than his own cult and the demonstration he can only control such population through violence.
>>282554181>he'll die a hero for most, making oligarchy look great.>Wenli on the other side just... chicken out.i don't think that's putting it fairly though. Ultimately the show is about the characters, and Reinhart mostly dies because of the guilt of losing Kircheis and his Sister. The whole point of the show is that his ambition doesnt make him happy at all. Wenli at least dies with a clear conscience. Reinhart dies just hoping that his son will take the future in a brighter direction and puts the last of his hope into him.>Him deciding to join a resistance latter that doesn't have much population backing it and does in fact revolve entirely around himself to beat the odd just show how bad that decision was.It also shows that he's willing to listen to his friends who rely on her and learn from his mistakes. Reinhart kills innocent lives, and guilt cannot be washed away with regret like cowardice.
>>282554181>The only moral conflict Reinhart truly faced was considering to let the Westland massacre happen (until it's taken out of his hand) so the population would support him, and it barely bit him when he is at the very top of his power, essentially reaching the goal he had all along, he'll die a hero for most, making oligarchy look great.He also created his own Orwellian secret police and chose to topple the FPA as well as allowed the conquered FPA to be ruled by a puppet who wanted to torture Yang to death and put everyone who formerly had status in the FPA in a concentration camp. The secret police guy framed Reuenthal and he went along with it too just for the thrill of being able to fight Reuenthal who he set-up to fail.>Wenli on the other side just... chicken out. He is somehow capable of taking responsibility for an entire fleet deciding the future of mankind, but somehow not capable of ...defending it for pretty obvious reason, no government decision can be considered legit under duress.If he killed Reinhard then the currentFPA government would've been vaporized. Yang didn't want to ever be in a position of civil authority, even if it was just simply to establish new emergency elections.>But I'm not saying he shouldn't have made it to illustrate the point. I'm saying the population of the FPA should have been portrayed as the colossus democracies typically are. That should have been the part where Reinhart discovers a population who know better than his own cult and the demonstration he can only control such population through violence.That was the only way he ever controlled them, they became a subjugated people. It's disappointing the show didn't really cover any civilian revolts, it'd be good to see where that could lead in a theoretical sequel. Just a random point but Yang also has a weird quirk where he hates himself because he secretly admires Rudolph Goldenbaum and is worried that if he ever seized power he'd end up just like him.
>>282551276Reinhard is only the "real deal" because the plot bow to his will to the point of stretching disbelief. He might as well have had a "magic jar that gushes forth fleet" or be an average isekai protagonist.No doubt it was written as the "Legend of the galactic HEROES" not the "Legend of the galactic POLITICAL SYSTEM", but the result of that is it being a wet dream for the theorist of exceptionalism.There's no "western democracy", there's democracy or there's not, only then can you start ranking how direct or efficient it is (not implying that direct democracy is better). the modality will vary a lot but all you get are more or less direct result of the will of the population.Pretending democracy is an illusion, that consent is "easily" manufactured, is just pro-autocrat propaganda. Not surprising to hear that those day, we've got a whole generation raised on the belief they shouldn't think by themselves, only follow whoever is popular.
>>282537616I think you should read more books and less warhammer 40k, the unprompted mention of which would be shameful to you if you had reached cognitive maturity.
>>282554380>Ultimately the show is about the characters, and Reinhart mostly dies because of the guilt of losing Kircheis and his SisterIt may believe to be about characters but the importance of politic completely override a few character importance.A battle of ego is fine if the story was only about monarchic empire.But it was not, one side, ignoring Fezzan, was supposed to be a democracy which change everything.I don't think Reinhart carried much guilt since he didn't lose them as a result of his own choice, Kircheis sacrificed himself for him and it would be irresponsible to dishonor him by giving up. At most he was only depressed in loosing Wen-li who should have been his arch-nemesis.No, the space-aids is killing him solely to drive the message "oh shit, how do we make sure to get a good leader next?"
>>282555879>I don't think Reinhart carried much guilt since he didn't lose them as a result of his own choiceyes he did. he prevented kircheis from carrying his gun
>>282554992>>Reinhard is only the "real deal" because the plot bow to his will to the point of stretching disbelief. He might as well have had a "magic jar that gushes forth fleet"True, and so does Yang. Though in Reinhart's case, what most beggars belief is that there's an entire cadre of hypercompetent officers who are personally loyal to him and willing the topple the regime while the loyalists of the old dynasty are all walking caricatures. And the old emperor not only dies at the most convenient timing but also does nothing to stop the usurpation he knows is coming the moment he stops breathing. Ultimately, both Yang and Reinhart are complete Mary Sues, though in different ways.
>>282545085Shut up Obersteinfag. DNT brought us Fräuleien Oberstein, who managed to be sexier than Hilda, Freddie and Schönkopf's half retarded tsundere daughter, while being just random fanart.
>>282554564>He also created his own Orwellian secret police and chose to topple the FPAThere's no moral conflict in destroying an enemy that, by that point, was not much of a democracy anymore. I don't remember concentration camp being mentioned, only that the Empire would gladly execute anyone the FPA population hated (for leading to their situation) part of the "good dictator" narrative.The fall of the FPA is also more a result of Rubinsky playing each against the others.Reinhart battle against Reuenthal is only due to misunderstanding and the ego of Reuenthal keeping him from accepting mistakes and stepping down. A rather far-fetched way of portraying another inherent flaw of autocracy.>If he killed Reinhard then the current FPA government would've been vaporized.And? A democracy can't take honest decision under duress, and it shouldn't cannot die just by killing the people's representatives. At most, it shattered his ideals of representative accepting death for the good of the nation.Democracies do have plans to counter a decapitating strike.So he still chickened out despite it being the most rational choice to protect democracy and his ideals, before eventually showing hypocrisy (and weakness) by joining a resistance that, by then, cannot pretend to carry the voice of a population.Organizing new elections don't require authoritarian method, since democracy institutions are by nature decentralized. Simply stepping down and keeping the fleet from looking like gunboat diplomacy would have sufficed to show he doesn't intend to take over.Actually, screw that, he wouldn't be organizing election. He would let the people organize them themselves, keep the fleet ethic right, then recognize the change of leadership.>That was the only way he ever controlled them, they became a subjugated people.>It's disappointing the show didn't really cover any civilian revoltsNo revolt = obedience, that's the problem with how it is shown.
>>282556312Alright I'll give you that one.She is mad cute.
>>282555901>yes he did. he prevented kircheis from carrying his gunGiven how chaotic the event ensuring his death was, a gun might have resulted in a worse result>>282556307>True, and so does YangNo disagreement since my complains is that LoGH is first and foremost a battle of egos, making a mockery of democracy.>Ultimately, both Yang and Reinhart are complete Mary Sues, though in different ways.Oh dare you insult the strategist who captured Iserlohn with a plan that would put fear in the gods themselves!?
>>282556524>Given how chaotic the event ensuring his death was, a gun might have resulted in a worse resultthats cap and totally counter to what reinhart and obelstein say
>>282549563>Somehow the monarchic empire who glorify medievalism (which would require a thought police and controlling everyone's habit), that monarchy where no talent but being the son of a noble would entitle you to be put in charge of industries, somehow that monarchy can still develop revolutionary technologies?You act as if Great Britain didn't go through exactly that, twice for that matter, and wasn't still the dominant power at the other end of it.
>>282549563It might surprise you to learn that all great civilizations have been authoritarian for the vast majority of their history. Only swallowing more propaganda than you've read books could convince you that the absence of democracy somehow makes technical development impossible.
>>282482451I love him
If only Kircheis were still alive.
I think the big problem with LoGH is that it was written in the 80s. A lot of ideas resolve around the premise that violent and oppressive regimes will never relinquish power to the people or self-liquidate. USSR was still strong back then, China hadn't opened up and both Koreas were ruled by military dictatorships. For example LoGH finished the year South Korea had its first real elections.So debating LoGH politics is kinda meaningless.
>>282559417>This isn't really a problem and it is right that corrupt systems will generally fight to maintain themselves - both autocratic and democratic.Well the problem is that it's not true. Just look at the fall of USSR, Korea, Greece, France, Spain etc etc. Plenty of corrupt regimes go quietly into the night, sometimes because you can still be corrupt even if you're not in power
>>282559593>Well there is also a case where a nation is so corrupt it functionally cannot exist anymore because so many people are abusing it. A death from 1000 cuts sort of scenario.Well you can. However>, but the point is to change the system/leadership before that happens to make it healthy againIs what kills them. They put a new guy in charge who wasn't willing to send tanks to Tallinn over Estonians seceding so soviet union fell apart. USSR was corrupt but it also wasn't, the elite only had dachas, they didn't own private jets, they didn't own the roads, they owned luxury goods and had access to more services but other than that the corruption wasn't that bad. Russia now is far more corrupt than the old soviet union but also more stable as the leadership is more willing to use violence to keep themselves in power.
>>282559096Cuba? Iran?
>>282559724Iran had a successful revolution after LoGH finished so there's that. Cuba is holding out, so is North Korea but overall there are more elections now than in the 80s.
>>282559825LoGH began in 1982; 3 years after the Iranian revolution and 23 years after the Cuban Revolution.
>>282559738Neither am I, but a lot of older russian will tell you the 90s were a particularly miserable time for them.
Thoughts on Phezzan and Rubinsky? Should they have been more relevant?
>>282561616>I don't want to derail this into a modern politics shitYeah... sure...
>>282562884Job Trunicht won on a charismatic, forceful personality. Biden never got a single vote for charisma. Their similarity is "I don't like [thing]".
>>282563056>he had a religious sect/cult with massive in group preference helping himSo we agree that it's not a good comparison to Biden, who didn't have a religious backing.
>>282563192Anon, if you want to know which candidate was Israel's greatest ally, the answer might surprise you.
>>>/pol/
>>282563427It's a fucking bizarre comparison because all they have in common is being politicians. I think talking about real world politics was your goal all along.
>>282563824So how does this relate to politics within logh?
Janny needs to pull the thread, retards entered who do not have the IQ necessary to discuss the show or even properly connect it to the modern day.
>>282512137>never once do we get to see him actually act smarthe has clever conversations and defeats his enemies tactically
>>282563659The FPA doesn't have people vote for representitives who then vote for them in deciding the head and then a seperate parlimentary division where they vote for memebers directly. The FPA is not at all the same kind of republic as the US.
>>282482451The author of this has no idea on politics and military, is kind of pathetic that faggots eat this shit up.
>>282550915>He understands on an intellectual level that democracy is a joke, but his ego prevents him from doing what is actually needed (i.e do for the Alliance what Reinhard does for the Empire).The issue is - and the show stresses this - that once democracy is abolished, it can take quite some time to re-establish, and while a single great ruler can facilitate great change and work as a positive force, whether he stays on course - and whether his successors (and the route to succession is not always mapped out) stay on course is a different question.Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means a democratic idealist, but the critique of democracy is not nearly as easy as you map it out to be.
>>282482451You've called people "subhuman" in political discourse, haven't you? When you start a revolution or reformation with an execution you've already drawn the line on day 1.
>>282564138It is ambiguous. The whole point of having three different near equal authorities is to essentially make hostile take overs and systematic degeneration into a different form of government actually a long a difficult task to accomplish. The FPA's system lacks any lower governing body that decides things with near equal authority to butt heads with so the FPA is already setup to fast track its way to a a pure autocratic system.In fact, after thinking about it I'd dare say the FPA is a democratic autocracy.
>>282564194>In the age of space travel, I feel as thought this is less of an issue since there is always a new frontier.It depends on how many worlds there are for people to live and how easy it is to build a life there. The mindset to withdraw, go innawoods or become a homesteading recluse is often rather naive and offers no 'real' autarky, but a parasitic existence, since they couldn't even replace the barrel of a gun without others who remain in civilisation, maintain industry, work in factories, secure their borders, etc.
>>282564374I treat El Facil as a moment when the writers remember they are in space.
>>282482680He's Canadian?
>>282565242Except for the magical ability to summong entire fleets.
>>282484025She's mad that she got corrected
>>282561542I thought this guy and the Terra cult made little sense. It seemed like they were plotting towards something but ultimately it was just terrorism for the sake of terrorism. Maybe there's more to them in the book.
>>282561542Isn't Phezzan just one planet? They don't have the resources to accomplish anything more than to be a parasite leeching off from and playing both sides against each other. Their MO was to fund terrorist groups to keep the war going so they could profit from it, but profit alone doesn't enable building a military that can rival multi-planetary systems.
>>282565903Rubinsky was an egomaniac. No wonder he went out with one last terrorist attack tied to the moment of his death as a last "Fuck you" when he couldn't compete.
>>282565799It's a mercantile planet similar to the mercantile city-states in history, it's small and doesn't have much hard power but has lots of soft power. Couple that with it being in control of one of the two known safe corridors between the FPA and Empire they had a fairly more stable position compared to real worl merchant states. The goal of everyone outside of the elite oligarchy of secret puppets was to just do free trading between themselves, FPA, and the Empire with no particular care to build state power. The elite puppets of the Earth Cult were attempting to use the mercantile state to destabilize and weaken both the FPA and Empire with the longer term plan of using their religious members to slowly seize power in the governments and then reunite humanity under Earth's rule when they could force it.Basically Phezzan wasn't the real player in the game, just a piece on the board for the Earth Cult in the background that just so happened to golive its common men a pretty okay lifestyle if they could manage to do mercantile activities well enough.
What's going on with the mass deletion in this thread.
>>282566756Probably tilted a jannie in another thread. Typical faggot staff shit.
>>282564131>quite some time to re-establishThis is true for any industrial chunk of civilization if purged, and would hold true for any other form of government. The only cure for this is evolutionary embedded government: order bred instinctual to the very genes of the entire species. This hypothetical species is defaultly civilized without any teaching thus completely alien to current humanity. In 2025, with the vices and degeneracies so many of you drown yourselves in, it should be obvious that chaos and evils are inherent to your souls, so its pointless for you idealists to try to crack a code that is already solved. There is no better form of governance for you to discover. It is ingrained within each of you to be what you are, and if you truly desire something superior, you'd have found it by now, especially your philosophical superiors of the past ages of enlightenment. Or will this internet birth a new one superior to all before?>>282564131>whether he stays on courseThis is explored in "Foundation". Even a line of genetically maintained emperors cannot remain on course for very long. The only way to fully and truly remain on course is for every participant in a civilization , even the lowest peasants', to wholly agree on that set course, and the only way that happens is with freakish levels of population wide gene modification, or a God level event capable of inflicting a zeitgeist worthy of continually being pursued throughout millennia.>>282564122Author ignorance is irrelevant. It is the first media to appropriately entangle itself with all the required conditions for endless political arguments, and so they will continue.>>282564025If they do not possess the requisite IQ and are not worth the effort of shutting down their logic, compel whoever needs compelling to improve the captcha for a more advanced puzzle system they will be perplexed by.Terrestrials gotta do what they gotta do, and space politics are beyond current scope.
>>282566756I got banned for off topic. Too lazy to keep phone posting so I accept the vacation.Kind of lame though how jannies think examining history and similar things regarding corruption in current events is off topic to LotGH. Really shows the quality of moderation and especially annoying how other people got caught in the crossfire like >>282562080
Putting gay war leaders aside, are Gaidens worth it? I read their stories are not as good and sometimes feel off when you remember the same characters' performance and behavior as presented ij the og series.
>>282567265Don't worry. I rather avoid writing long posts here for the same reason. Phone posting or not, it's pointless when you can be banned for talking about certain anime's real life references, or after posting a funny image with crazy Piccolo that somewhat gets treated like an offtopic shit.
>>282488888Wow, so principled. We lost but at least we were very principled about it. Most cultures on Earth do not have the concept of Principles. The idea that you have to live to your enemies standards or even afford them the standards that you live by yourself is an invention purely of the last 200 or so years. The point is that all of that goes right out the window in war because what matters is what works, not what is right.q
>>282549047>platinum age lasting until the endYes please. I like to combine this potential with the 2 short stories 'The Last Question' and 'The Last Answer' to conclude/extend all the ponderings of the topics of life and death.
>>282567336Yang wasn't even principled. After the FPA fell and he escaped captivity, he resumed a war that was hopeless even according to himself. All that came from that was the pointless death of hundreds of thousands to millions.
>>282531428You only say that because of the dashes. They aren't even actual em-dashes.
>>282484109holy reading comprehension
>>282534564The one time I need to get some sleep a LOTGH thread with some actual discussion pops up
>>282482451>muh democracy What if Oktoberfest was every day?
>>282569628No wall of text has been able to proof that post wrong
>>282567336my point was about principles and morality. if you call the others barbarians and then you do the same shit at least be honest and drop the pretense you have any moral superiority
>>282482451logh thread How come no one talks about that shitty remake
>>282570919They gave my boy a bad haircut. Headcannon that he cut his hair himself to spite a woman.
>>282570919I didn't watch the first season. I remember thinking how cutting out Arthur Lynch during the Battle of El Facil flashback would have made his later appearance feel like it came out of nowhere.
>>282482451Alcoholic loser who has theoretical moral high ground and dies to being carved by a literal who meaninglessly.
>>282572425*watch past
>>282482451>Yang reading the 4chan archives of the early 21st century where the cult leader Trump is described as a moderate
>>282567268i really liked the sig ovasit's on youtube in it's entirety too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksKdnrvODCY
Bezos sama is so cool.
>>282567265>Kind of lame though how jannies think examining history and similar things regarding corruption in current events is off topic to LotGH.yeah that was the reason
>>282487394Cool fan
>>282575458Why does he have a headset dent?
>>282575458Tyler1 looking ass motherfucker.
>>282576857Phezzani physics
>>282482680Yang has killed millions of germoids
>>282554992Its funny to think about the fact that Reinhard's greatest accomplishment was to die young and hand over the reigns to his wife and elected officials.
>>282550679That's a really nice high level take on the ironies the author gave the two characters. Really nice actually.
>>282561542>>282575458>main villian is jewish
>>282572293>They gave my boy a bad haircutMecklinger got it worse
>>282581969Mecklinger was already a dork
>>282582001Mecklinger's new design is by no means good, but Reuenthal's is definitely worse.
>>282582253Mecklinger was always cool, looked like John Cazale
