>>282792581
Itachi could solo him.

>>282792581
>Naruto proceeds to get bailed out by Kurama
>changes his entire philosophy after a 5 minute convo with Naruto who said he didn’t have any plans as hokage
Rinne tensei ruins the ending of the pain arc

>>282792581
never read naruto (because i have taste)

what was his philosophy?

>>282792697
"I wanna be the hokage and I'll say whatever is useful for advancing towards that end at the current moment."
Naruto is a consummate politician.

>>282792697
>People are cunts, they can only behave if they've recently experienced genocide. That's why I'll create WMD that will get used whenever people start acting like cunts to make them stop acting like cunts for a while.

File: Madara Uchiha story.png (199 KB, 1280x562)

199 KB PNG

>>282792581
naruto had a lot of good villains that got shafted by the story because naruto has to win in the end

>>282792828
You're forgetting how the entire story had to retroactively make the Infinite Tsukuyomi turn people into Zetsus because Kishimoto couldn't think of an argument against it that stood on its own merits. It's not even that profound, Kishimoto just didn't give enough of a fuck to not make it super obvious it's a bad thing for the audience.

>>282792697
ive never read the manga and its been a while since i watched the anime but from what i remember pain's argument basically was:
>world mean and bad things happen. if you call yourself the good guy how you plan to stop bad things from happening?
to which naruto replies with:
>i dunno lol
and then naruto proceeds to punch pain REALLY hard so the bad guy goes:
>damn naruto your number is so big and you are so cool so i was wrong actually
and then the bad guy resurrects everyone and they never bring up his worldview ever again

File: 1771997557297170.png (35 KB, 757x243)

35 KB PNG

>>282792581
kill yourself narutard

File: 16851266526932.jpg (209 KB, 640x816)

209 KB JPG

This is the kind of person that posts thos kind of retardation.

>>282792828
Madara was trash and deserved his end.

>>282792604
ok but he cant beat nagato

File: 493260825.jpg (147 KB, 960x1200)

147 KB JPG

>>282792604
/thread/

File: Hyperion Haruhi.jpg (77 KB, 1440x900)

77 KB JPG

What's interesting about Pain/Nagato is that the core of his philosophy isn't even incompatible with the sage of six path's ninshu, which is empathetic in nature. Naruto intuitively demonstrates ninshu repeatedly after this arc so it's actually a thing that could be the foundation for a villain turning Hagoromo's intentions around. If ninja monks were in the hidden rain he'd get exposed to that view but didn't by virtue of it being a warzone I guess.
Pain having told Jiraiya that humanity is still in the process of maturing (contrasting with Obito saying there's no need for humanity to evolve any further) making me think that this could easily have been a different path for Akatsuki, with Hidan maybe brought in as a case study for empathetic corporal punishment and not as just muscle for the group.
Reading the Hyperion novels made me think about Pain as a problem solver and not just an antagonist.

>>282792697
Something like "people can't be trusted to maintain peace so I'll become a nuclear deterrent to prevent them from starting more wars"

File: 9re1.jpg (30 KB, 640x346)

30 KB JPG

>>282792604
>>282793157

File: nagatos soul goes to the (...).jpg (71 KB, 532x547)

71 KB JPG

>>282793157
He literally did lmao

>>282792813
>>282794335
Honestly, how do you argue against this?

>>282794335
That's just Raoh but as a twink and with less ambition mixed in

>>282792604
>>282793157
The opposite
Itachi can hack a win against Nagato because of the oneshot sword
but Pain rapes Itachi with his 6 bodies and revives

>>282794758
>solo

>>282792902
Nah, Naruto persuades Pain with a mix of sparing him (sticking to his philosophy where Pain compromised), having the "fate" endorsement with all the prophecies and book referencing the two of them (making him in the fabric of the world the "right" version of Pain) and having a big number too

>>282794875
Kishi says the sole Nagato is stronger, and maybe that's true for chakra output/capacity, but outnumbering an opponent is also a strength.

>>282792604
Itachi is a FRAUD
he FLED from GODriya and guess who defeated him?

>>282794987
Numbers aren't that useful but when you're facing a dude who's expert at tricking his opponents and delivering weird oneshots but with bad stamina you really would prefer the gank build over the OP solo build

>>282794875
Itachi can't touch Nagato since his Genjutsu doesn't work on the Rinnegan.
He couldn't even beat the Chibaku Tensei without help from 2 Tailed beasts.

>>282795659
Depends on how mobile/fast Nagato is and what his options are to defend against Totsuka (can he absorb it?)

Basically Nagato is an overkill monster of a tank that doesn't really need to run around, the upgrade makes sense when facing Naruto or Bee but against Itachi you'd pick the individually weaker but still more than powerful enough 6 Paths of Pain

>>282792895
This. There's a bunch of Writers that make the villain's plan realistic and logical and they had to introduce something that makes it bad or make the villain cartoony evil.

>>282794792
Sasuke tried the same thing and Naruto's answer to it is "You'll be alone and I don't want that."

>>282795708
As long as Nagato can move around like in that fight, he'll win.
Crippled Nagato before he absorbed Bee's chakra has a higher chance of losing.
Itachi's specialty is Genjutsu but Nagato's Rinnegan cancels it.
The Totsuka is still BS in general. Madara not having something similar is ridiculous.

>>282795853
Kabuto said Nagato was lacking in mobility after he gets Totsuka'd so I assume he's still slightly crippled even after feasting on Bee

>>282794758
>>282793157
What can Nagato do against Susanoo and its asspull shield? With how Kishi kept buffing the Sharingan Itachi could probably use it to trace Nagato's main body too.

>>282795955
He only got Totsuka-ed because of the teamwork of Bee, Naruto and Itachi.
Realistically, there's no way for Nagato to lose. Especially if he's using the Six Paths of Pain.
Maybe Itachi should learn how to use Sound Based Genjutsu since it's the only one that seem to work.

>>282795955
It's a mental nerf because he hadn't walked for 20 years at the time of his death.

>>282792895
Isn't the fact that it's not real enough?

>>282796066
>He only got Totsuka-ed because of the teamwork of Bee, Naruto and Itachi.
Yeah I'm not saying Itachi would have won that alone but the fact he could get Totsuka'd there with so little setup (just smoke) is kinda bullshit

Let's say Itachi has 10% chance of landing a Totsuka hit on Nagato, making Nagato's odds of victory 90%. That's big but I'm pretty sure Pain takes Itachi like 95-99% of the time.

>>282792581
Wild how many times this happens in Natuto

>>282796133
Technically, Nagato could use the Summoning Path animals as his eyes too.
But, yeah. Itachi has a chance against Nagato but probably 0 chance again Pain.

>>282796114
Not for Kishimoto apparently. He also probably did it like that because he remembered he canonically made heaven and didn't include hell, meaning everyone goes to heaven after they die so it doesn't even really matter if it's fake. Also Kaguya bullshit.

>>282796114
Do you honestly care if it's fake?
The filler arcs show the characters don't care. The TenTen episode unironically shows the breakdown.

>>282794794
I am not strong enough to breed with Tsunade under Roah. Shippuden milk trucks are high test, but Nagatos plan would make me a breeding slave for Hinata, Sakura, and Ino.

>>282796398
>Tenten is the only one aware about the Genjutsu in the anime canon
>Her entire dream is the entire Konoha 12 giving a shit about her
Holy fuck the anime studio is fucking hilarious sometimes.

>>282794792
People are absolutely capable of doing heinous shit during times of peace, so long as it doesn’t prompt war. Could also go with the Garou route and have Naruto’s big number ask him if he’s truly capable of enforcing that when a bigger fish might be out there. Ozymandius types stuff

>>282796066
The war arc is just Movie 2 and 3 of Dragonball. Naruto had that moment where he pummels people into oblivion the same way Goku does

>>282796910
Anime idea of peace is Char CCA, or Hokuto no Ken. Madara wants to go to the moon and fight Moon Clan up and fuck bitches, Obito wants to be a J-RPG hero, Nagato wants to be a dark Leaf

>>282796114
Why would it be enough? You have no way of proving your current existence as real. Might as well opt out for the existence where life is guaranteed to be enjoyable.

>>282797175
Well reality has this sense of "sanctity", like it's the stuff God intended for us to live and we have a duty to live there... but if you don't subscribe to these principles this falls flat for sure

Normally another argument that doesn't require some sense of "God" is "challenge is good and ideal dream is just bad" but in the case of Infinite Tsukuyomi it's a world filled with challenges as well, just that it wont end in a personal tragedy for you, everything will be meaningful and rewarding, it's not, say, the pleasure machine from that philosophical thought experiment.

>>282796910
There's literally human trafficking going on in Boruto too.

File: itachi uchiha.jpg (96 KB, 1192x670)

96 KB JPG

I bought an itachi keychain holder from some random store.
Only anime aside from kimetsu they sell in any store.

File: Pain.png (1.43 MB, 1334x750)

1.43 MB PNG

>>282792697
I’m glad you asked

>I have a dream. That one day, every Shinobi in this nation will control their own destiny.
>A village of the truly free, dammit. A village of action, not tradition, ruled by strength, not councils!
>Where the rules bend to fit the individual, not the other way around. Where power and justice return to where they belong: in the hands of the people! Where every Shinobi is free to think, to act for themselves!
>Fuck all these limp-dick Elders and chickenshit Clan Heads. Fuck this 24 hour Council spew of missions and Shinobi ranking bullshit! Fuck Hidden Leaf pride! Fuck the Will of Fire! FUCK ALL OF IT!
>Konoha is diseased. Rotten at the core. There’s no saving it - we need to rip it out by the roots. Wipe the slate clean. BURN IT DOWN!
>And from the ashes, a new Konoha will rise. Evolved, untamed! The weak will fall, and the strongest will thrive - free to live, to fight, to believe as they see fit!
>They won’t kill for the Daimyō. They won’t die for some ancient feud or some Hokage’s dream. No more will kids die in blood sports they call "Exams", for the entertainment of the eilites.
>In my new Konoha, people will die and kill for what they BELIEVE! Not for honor. Not for orders. Not for what they’re told is right. Every Shinobi will fight their own war!

>>282794792
All the aftermaths of genocides, probably. People can and have been enormously cruel even after systematically destroying a group

File: Hanzo_of_the_Salamander.jpg (60 KB, 1200x675)

60 KB JPG

shonen syndrome of interesting antags getting shafted for the sake of modernist "good guys have to win".
Pain still wasn't robbed nearly as hard as Hanzo though.

File: Naruko Pain.jpg (2.16 MB, 3200x2488)

2.16 MB JPG

>>282797886
What we were robbed of is that Pain didn't kill his salamander and turn it into an animal path summon.

>>282794792
"it sucks your childhood friend had to die because he was naive and got too deep into geopolitics, but it's insane you think that means you're validated in becoming a dictator and nuking villages"

I think the irony is that, Naruto and Sasuke are the nuclear deterrent in the current times of peace.
So yeah, Naruto is using Nagato's ideal even if he doesn't know it.

>>282797886
How did Hanzo get robbed?

>>282792581
>best written villain anime has to offer
You sure? That's a pretty bold claim

>>282798224
Kishi turned him into a retard for the sake of making the story work / avoiding an arc.
He originally aligned with and unofficially blessed original akatsuki.
The only reason Nagato becomes Pain is because Danzo kills random hidden rain mooks, blames it on akatsuki and then magically Hanzo just trusts him and goes on to force yahiko's death.
Had he actually thought about it, he would have realized the situation doesn't make sense, and we get a much different story (kishi couldn't be fucked writing)

>>282796737
they frequently took the time to dunk on Kishimoto's writing and offer direct improvements to the point many of their changes got retroactively added to the manga canon

>>282797327
Rain Ninjas operate like the mob, or Bloody Harry in Gungrave

>>282798431
Isn't that mostly filler? He still goes and squash the Akatsuki for arbitrary reasons while allying with Danzo but we don't know exactly how the situation was

At the very least he got a nice seppuku death against Mifune

>>282798221
at least in Naruto's case, he'd never go out and kill people indiscriminately. the jinchuuriki were supposed to be living nukes for their villages, at the end of the day.

I thought it was funny how hamfisted Kishimoto got with the nuke allegory during the Pain Saga. Hiroshima and Nagasaki really mindbroke the Japs, didn't they

>>282798431
Hanzo being paranoid is the most consistent thing we learn about him and an aging tyrant is always going to view young reformers as a threat.

>>282798431
Vegeta did the same thing. He killed Freiza's men, blamed Zarbon, watch as Freiza scolds his number two on company time. It's how Nappa and Vegeta survived. Danzo as a villain is just the heel

>>282798502
No, I'm pretty sure he canonically fell for Danzo dressing up some of his root members as Rain ninja who got killed by the akatsuki. He was actually that dumb according to Kishimoto.

>>282798575
>this non-violent group i condone, known for overwhelming success, suddenly breaks rule #1 and kills people
>hmm i should really find out the truth
>thank you Leaf CIA man, i can completely trust you!
It's crazy how much of part 2's story hinges on Hanzo being a spontaneous retard

>>282798598
I think the Kanzo stuff is filler actually

>>282798582
>He killed Freiza's men, blamed Zarbon, watch as Freiza scolds his number two on company time
When did that ever happen?

>>282798644
This is a guy who had children cavity searched if they approached him.

File: 1730330368179955.png (851 KB, 845x1266)

851 KB PNG

>>282798644
He was paranoid about their influence but that killing stuff is not mentioned

>>282798788
then the "filler" is basically filling in the details.
Danzo still has to convince him the humanitarian group suddenly became evil.
That whole story would have been really nice to see kishi...

>>282798843
It's bad filler
I can imagine Hanzo being a paranoid piece of shit wary of growing power, this stuff happens
The fucking "I'm Kanzo, one of Danzo's friends" episode is just stupid in essence kek

>>282798644
70% of Naruto as a whole hinges on one chuunin running his mouth about Itachi when Sasuke was in earshot.

File: 1000032611.jpg (71 KB, 803x864)

71 KB JPG

>>282796737
>Tenten when somebody remembers she exists

>her power is pulling whatever she wants out of scrolls
>is the most underused character
what a monkey paw in a series about asspulls

>>282798892
Hanzo immediately knew of the rinnegan on sight and could name it, so it might have threatened him more than the actual organization Nagato was a part of.
Leaf's black ops could have confirmed the existence of the rinnegan among the akatsuki's top ninja which would have fed Hanzo's paranoia.

>>282798923
>madara faces minor and very expected pushback on warring clans not instantly stopping
>obito suddenly forgets how to dodge a boulder
>itachi can't use his 50000IQ to talk his father down from a coup
what would naruto be like without retarded inciting incidents

>>282799074
>madara faces minor and very expected pushback on warring clans not instantly stopping
What are you referring to

File: COMPLETE and UTTER defeat.jpg (1.25 MB, 1920x2400)

1.25 MB JPG

>>282798256
Pain defeated Naruto in the most absolute sense.
Not only was Pain stronger than Naruto but also Naruto could not even put a dent on Pain's ideology.
Naruto literally conceded.
Pain won.
Holistically.
Can you name any other anime villain who has defeated the main character of their story in such a way?
Pain is the greatest anime villain because he literally won and he was 100% correct.

>>282799010
She can seal jutsus in her scrolls.

>>282799074
Hiruzen was the main problem anyway.

>>282799154
Naruto beat him ideologically after that by sparing him

>>282799115
his first sperg-out when he was a kid and first met hashi
>him and hashi are friends at this point and talk about their village idea and stopping the war
>then they find out their dad and brothers have been tailing them
>families face off
>madara's brother rejects peace from hashi
>madara just instantly gives up and goes along
I get it's a very japanese-scene, but it was still retarded.

File: 20b586c12.jpg (10 KB, 236x227)

10 KB JPG

>>282799154
Correct, even the solo king agrees.

>>282799010
at least she gets some solo focus in filler. the big stretch of filler prior to Shippuden is filled with mini arcs focusing on characters outside of Team 7, with many of them being temporary protagonists for the duration of that arc.

>>282799302
I can buy Madara being pessimistic and accepting his powerlessness in this system. It's not like he had a lifelong bond with Hashirama, he didn't want Hashirama to die but he had other obligations to his family and clan. In the end he was reasonable enough to reunite with Hashirama eventually despite the loss of his brother so... he just went retarded later for some reason.

>>282799302
the one where he has a turbo melty after not being named Hokage was worse.
it's implied the main season the village doesn't trust him is because even after the truce he still acts like an autistic recluse and never socialises with anyone. and then he has the gall to wonder why everyone thinks he's a scary weirdo and trusts Hashirama over him.

>>282799402
He just needed Kabuto to translate that autism.

>>282799154
What would Pain think of Madara’s plan?

>>282798644
Sasori and Deidara are the talk show hosts.

>>282798549
Nagato has to capture the beasts so collateral damage is expected.
Pretty sure Shikamaru threatened to use Naruto against the Stone in one of the novels.

>>282799496
The infinite tsukuyomi ends reality and that would come across as an absurdity to Nagato, who still believes that humanity is capable of growth. Just that a conditioning must occur to make aversion to war the norm and not the exception.
Madara is a lot more blackpilled than Pain and there's no reconciling their goals.

>>282799572
I don't think the novels are canon, and Shikamaru has neither the authority nor the actual power to force Naruto to do anything anyway so that was clearly meant to be a bluff.

He is every piece on the world's shogi board, so he will make the authority and power.

File: 3fa170f9e253695f3d3b1b8bc(...).jpg (279 KB, 1024x1367)

279 KB JPG

>>282799989
shogi nerd steps onto actual battlefield and gets slammed

>>282792604
Boruto would beat the two of them with just one hand

>>282800301
he'd need his dad there to hand him a giant rasengan and spoon the kill for him

>>282800301
tsukuyomi

File: Infinite Tsukuyomi dreams(...).jpg (218 KB, 2208x1242)

218 KB JPG

>>282800301
>fanfic character goes brrrr

>>282792604
Kishimoto...

>>282792690
spbp

>>282800301
Show feats to prove this

>>282800345
Burrito isn't 12 anymore.

>>282800301
Boruto beats Nagato but i doubt Kishi will ever allow Itachi to be surpassed.
He'd bullshit something to defeat anything.

>>282799074
You're forgetting something more important about the Obito thing. Which is Minato not telling his team that he has teleporting kunai they should throw if they are in danger of death.

>>282792581
It makes you wonder what atrocious series you’d have to read to make someone think that Naruto villain is the best

>>282800548
Kabuto defeated Itachi like three times

>>282800727
Because Itachi wasn't trying to kill him.

>>282800768
Itachi wouldn't be able to kill him no matter what

>>282800785
Not if Kishimoto has anything to say about it.

Itachi vs discussions are boring. His strengths are overbloated due to the authors bias. Honestly this goes for all uchiha.

itachi would be the one who's allowed to override izanami with super izanagi

File: 1757029717902538.png (340 KB, 584x1348)

340 KB PNG

>>282800860
>Izanagi? Merely a derivation of the Banbutsu Sōzō no Jutsu. I had an out of body experience from all these drugs in my system and astral projected into the distant past, where I observed Hagoromo and copied his creation of all things technique before my dream self remembered that you can't copy jutsu in a dream.

Does Itachi have flaws?

>>282801164
His only flaw was, canonically, not asking 6 years old Sasuke to stop the Uchiha coup.

Seriously.

>>282801164
he royally fucked up the one person he supposedly cared about and then kicked him off to naruto
he let his first akatsuki partner die (but this is filler)

>>282801164
In universe, no. Everyone respects him. He’s Sasuke’s perfect brother. A great Ninja as said by Ninja Jesus. He was too strong so he had to be sick in order to balance the story.
A gary stu

>>282792604
>Aids patient #1 vs Aids patient #2

File: TBf.gif (291 KB, 334x337)

291 KB GIF

>>282801164
He was too perfect

>>282801164
His admitted flaw is to not rely on anyone else to achieve his goals. Basically he divided everyone into tools or obstacles.
The flaws he doesn't admit are a lot worse though, like suspending all his morals and compassion for his private stage theater where he takes the villainous role way too goddamn serious.

itachi not killing danzo was a plot hole.

>>282802517
Danzo did nothing wrong

>>282802544
>stealing an eye from your best friend is okay
alright kishi

File: thinking1.png (73 KB, 395x457)

73 KB PNG

What if instead of Tobirama being the second hokage
Madara was the second Hokage?
Good or bad??

>>282802574
Shisui was his subordinate and taking the eye was deemed necessary to Konoha's survival, and the only reason it ended up not being that is because of Kishimoto's faults as a writer rather than Danzo being morally wrong

>>282802591
we wouldn't have sasuke or any of the uchihas, so great actually.

>>282802591
Madara's first action is to take control over all the bijuu, which triggers a short war. Then after a lot of complaining from the other great nations he gets some Uzumaki sealers to summon the reaper and divide the tailed beasts into yin and yang so Konoha has 18 jinchurikis while the other nations have none.
All the jinchuriki are Uchiha.

>>282802776
Why would he want the other Bijuus if he can just control them with his sharingan?

File: madara not this shit.jpg (143 KB, 528x868)

143 KB JPG

>>282802964
It's not about having bijuu under his control it's denying the rest of the world jinchuriki.
Also I guess thinking about it there would only be 16 because Hashirama's wife has Kurama and he's not messing with that.

>>282802964
you have to think about it from the perspective of a myopic, zero-sum edgelord.

>>282803102
If Madara doesn't take the Nine Tails that would never happen. Him doing that is specifically what motivated Hashirama to seal them all up and hand them out because he helped prove that Konoha alone could control 9 of the most powerful beings on earth at any time.

>>282796004
The Asura missles, maybe.

>>282796004
He can just keep shooting his missiles or Shinra Tensei until the motherfucker goes blind or runs out of Chakra. Itachi is not hitting him with his Susan ooh when Six Tails Naruto was chasing one Path around and failing to stop shit.

>>282792604
It always annoyed me that the Uchihas were just lol Susano'o. Boring power to explain why they can box with the top tiers, they're just arbitrarily as strong as they need to be.

>>282792581
What do you mean crazy? Naruto has great villains overall. From Zabuza, Kisame and Orochimaru to Madara and Pain, most a great. Althougth there are some bad ones like Kaguya or Sasori.
>>282794792
>Everyone goes through shit everyday. I promise you, vouching for peace and understanding will help more than adding fuel to the fire.

>>282796004
nagato/pain is a hard-counter for anyone with low chakra.
He could literally just wait it out and force chakra waste until itachi goes blind or passes out

>>282803577
Itachi specifically is insufferable because his susanoo has a random special item he incorporated into it(somehow) and found during his travels(somehow) which have insane abilities(somehow) and no defined limits.

File: 70eac7a96f957c3d5b2b0b7ca(...).jpg (80 KB, 436x724)

80 KB JPG

>>282803609
The animal path can also just summon living people which I somehow never see factor into this matchup. Six paths of Pain + Konan + 30% Shōten no Jutsu Nagato clone.
GG

>>282803802
but can they beat tenga rashamon kyubi hinata

File: 1757478034655953.jpg (699 KB, 1000x800)

699 KB JPG

>>282804007
Those are words.

>>282792604
Itachi and Kisame feared Jiraya without his frogs.

>>282804192
Jiraiya hard counters them, if Itachi was out of stamina they'd have died in the frog's belly. Probably for the better too

File: 1752372133166698.jpg (138 KB, 2000x1000)

138 KB JPG

>>282804209
>Jiraiya kills itachi
>becomes the new target for Sasuke's vengeance

>>282804209
jiraiya vs kisame would have been a really cool fight because it's hard to say who should actually win.

>>282792581
You are a little child born before Naruto was televised.

File: Ttreize.jpg (92 KB, 746x689)

92 KB JPG

>*defeats the MC both physically and philosophically*
>>282797327
That sounds familiar.

>>282804238
It would be a really nice fight actually since they're both able to throw huge AoE elemental jutsu. Kisame absorbs chakra, but Jiraiya has sage chakra which can't be absorbed so that would probably end up being the win condition, just like Guy got Kisame by being the one thing Kisame couldn't handle (taijutsu).

>>282801586
>>>
> Anonymous 10/05/25(Sun)13:47:09 No.28280
he never said that shit fuck you shut the fuck up

>>282804238
Sage Mode Jiraiya would just murder him. The moment Kisame gets hit by that Genjutsu he transforms into a corpse.

>>282800727
Why was Kabuto so OP for no good reason?

>>282804599
Sage mode already makes you stronger than most Kage but he also added a bunch of genetic hacks on top of it. Just insane

>>282792604
this.

>>282792581
>Crazy to think that the best written villain anime has to offer comes from Naruto.
Do Narutards really?

File: a724ae535a32298cf1931e983(...).jpg (85 KB, 460x650)

85 KB JPG

>>282804599
Kabuto biohacked himself with every conceivable buff he could from drugs to gene editing and had the balls to then get bitten by the white snake sage which let him obtain perfect sage mode on top of what he'd taken in from Jugo's clan.
Kabuto is like a perpetual motion machine of senjutsu in addition to being a top of the verse medical genius.

>>282804758
He got the Madara treatment, made so powerful the author had to do a bullshit asspull to get rid of him .

kishi really squandered snek as the ultimate antag and the question of science and progress vs morality / ninja ways

>>282804567
Probably would turn into a rock the his sword eats sage chakra

File: IMG_3029.jpg (98 KB, 990x714)

98 KB JPG

>>282801164
Biggest flaw he is an idiot for killing his clan only for a mere coup.

The whole keeping konoha safe from the other villages attack if there was a coup was bs. We saw no other villages pounce on that opportunity after orochimaru attack.

File: 9d93b4c8c9d86f6afd4ab8ebe(...).jpg (46 KB, 700x694)

46 KB JPG

>>282804784
And like Madara, it would have been impossible for Naruto to talk no jutsu him.
If Naruto tries to point out that Kabuto is just filling a void by chasing power, Kabuto could easily turn it back on Naruto who also unnaturally altered himself, suppressed his inner shadow at the falls of truth. And also being an unnatural existence with a tailed beast inside which makes others respect or fear him. They don't meet during the war arc specifically so this comparison wouldn't come up.

Where's the faggot OP with today's chapter?

>>282805019
talk no jutsu'ing kabuto would probably be about asking who he really is when he stops little brother'ing oro (which oro even brings up).
And his obsession with bio-modding is actually about trying to find his True Self™ (Identity)
It's so trite i'm honestly surprised kishi either didn't think about it or avoided it.
But it seems like the 4th war arc just really fucked his brain for some reason.

Wow no one ITT actually read Naruto

>>282804567
I agree Frog Song GG but it'd be a hell of a fight. fused Kisamehada in the Dai Bakusui Shoha sphere vs SM Jiraiya with Ma & Pa and at least Gamaken backup would look really cool.

>>282805275
What'd I miss?

>>282803621
Nobody asked why Uchihas were the most wanked of all??

File: Byakugan.jpg (88 KB, 449x337)

88 KB JPG

Didn't they say the sharingan came from the Byakugan? Why is the sharingan so OP while the Byakugan is useless?

>>282805555
Early lore: Kakashi stating that the sharingan is a mutation of the byakugan and sasuke would never measure up to a main clan Hyuga
Later lore: each are separate dojutsu of half-alien brothers who got different genes from their alien mom.

Strongest Akatsuki:
1 and 2: Obito and Pain
3: Itachi
4-mid: Konan, Sasori, Deidara, Kakuzu
Last: Hidan and Kisame

>>282805630
>Konan
arguable, considering obito had to use retarded uchiha hacks to survive her fight

>>282805597
early lore sounded so much better.

>>282792581
>you lost the debate so that allows me to genocide a whole bunch of people
pain runs on reddit logic

>>282801164
He was a lowkey villian
Then he became a mary sue

>>282805597
Didn't the sage have the rinnegan and the other brother the sharingan? I don't remember anything about the byakugan in the manga

File: 8517e7bfcbe52c5351e156d3e(...).jpg (70 KB, 736x736)

70 KB JPG

>>282805630
Konan is stronger than Itachi. There I said it.
It's wrong and I said it.

>>282806116
Jiraiya low diffed her but he'd also low diff Itachi so...

>>282800476
the skeptics will refuse any source given to them therefore i do not provide any

>>282801164
In universe? This >>282801191 Out of universe he was a genociding fascist bootlicker and a third rate double agent who hindered his allies every chance he got.

>>282805879
Sage had the rinnegan which degenerated into the Sharingan, his brother just had a Byakugan because the God of the story didn't care about him.

>>282806311
Not to mention he could have literally just asked Hiruzen to step down again and make him Hokage in an effort to stop the coup. Itachi was strong as fuck, and if he couldn't fit the bill Shisui totally would have by having a Mangekyou. It would have immediately defused the principle concern of the radical uchihas, and allowed them to have a position at the top that would help dispel suspicion about the Nine Tails attack. Which by the way, the Third knows was caused by a foreign malicious actor, and not just random happenstance, or as an Uchiha plot. Doing nothing with that information, then not choosing the most obvious grievance to tackle and immediately defaulting to genocide is insanity. This is especially true when he clearly doesn't care that much about being Hokage anymore and believes in trusting the future generations it really becomes just a pathetic failure from him. Later Naruto ended up characterizing him as either the #1 problem with the village due to malice or unwillingness to act, almost solely to suck Itachi's dick.

>>282805630
Kisame is stronger than both kakuzu and Deidara. He should definitely be in the mid tier with zetsu and hidan in the last.

>>282806511
>>282806311
Worst part is... if he can kill all of the Uchiha then he can make a coup to take power of the Uchiha. He's the greatest genius that ever lived, who'd refuse after seeing him manhandle everyone?

You people put more thought on this shit than kishi ever did, unironically. The nigga had good ideas but he fucked up in practice.

>>282806616
Yeah Kishimoto tried to fix this plothole by having Tobi help, but Itachi being any part of that at all means he and his father could have easily just teamed up to slaughter the actual dissidents. The guy basically sat down and allowed him and his wife to die because he wanted to avoid war that much, Itachi never bothering to learn shit about his father enough to figure out he wasn't in favor of a coup is just ridiculous when we're supposed to believe he's the perfect hero.

>>282805630
Kakuzu is insanely strong, he was just a victim of anti plot armor from having to "fight" shikamaru and job to naruto's bigger death ball upgrade

File: 15386469552.jpg (26 KB, 640x631)

26 KB JPG

Kisame is the strongest akatsuki

>>282806696
Sasori is the same. He's extremely strong as well, but got hard countered by the person who taught him everything, and the disciples of the only person who ever cured his poison. The thing is compared to the rest he's firmly mid tier.

>>282806616
Not even Madara as clan head could make the Uchiha clan do what he wanted, certainly not a young teen Itachi who had ruined his public perception by acting schizo to be suspected of Shisui's murder.
Itachi also wasn't remotely strong enough to just assert dominance, anything he might have done differently would have put his father's role as clan head in jeopardy or forced a schism in their own family.
Itachi was already isolated to the point of having no real sway in what the clan did.

>>282806810
Who's calling the shots then? Because someone is. If Itachi can kill everyone then he can at least make the terms clear, stop the coup or face full wrath of both Itachi (strong enough to kill them all) and Konoha. There's no reason to start with the slaughter when the slaughter is the worst option. This is retarded

>>282806810
That's because Hashirama was still there holding onto his idiotic dream. Madara couldn't exactly do what's being proposed here because unlike them, he 1. Isn't stronger than Hashirama and 2. Doesn't have the support of the Hokage. Finally, the ENTIRE clan at the time told him to fuck off and not ruin a good thing. In this situation we just know there's a faction of them that are pushing for this, and that more people got radicalized by Shisui commiting suicide after gouging both his eyes out.

>>282801164
Near blindness which led to him not being as powerful as he should have been.
An isekai with Itachi fucking when?

>>282806950
Danzo's half brother Hanz- I mean Panzo

>>282792581
Naruto is based off Melos, a story about the hero assassinating the tyrant and mercy to prove him wrong. Melos is ignorant of how the outside world works and ends with him being a dumb jock. Naruto has too much tyrants but has a clear idea of politics

>>282806950
No one is calling the shots, the whole clan is under suspicion since the 9 tails attack, pushed to the outskirts, the police force has been defanged with the real investigations going to the black ops. Root eliminating Shisui as a moderating force and Itachi likely having unresolved shit from being dragged into a warzone at age 4 that is influencing him to see the clan as something to be excised.
Whether Fugaku is the clan leader or someone else doesn't even matter because they have generational grievances that are boiling over.

File: 1734813009954669.jpg (303 KB, 1066x1600)

303 KB JPG

Everything about the Uchiha massacre is fucking stupid. They went so beyond what was necessary and Itachi signing off was peak retardation

>>282807141
Insane amounts of rationalization for something that makes no sense because Itachi could have saved tons of lives by not doing what he did. Not all of the Uchiha would have fought Konoha to death, especially not if Konoha had 1 Uchiha guy strong enough to btfo all of them (ALL OF THEM) saying "yeah just stand down or die". He'd have saved so many people. This is so retarded

>>282807160
It's just Bardock the Father of Goku with Raditz as the MC. Danzo is just doing double duty as Dodoria and Zarbon

>>282807141
Again bro, he knows it's not just someone from the clan that randomly did it. The person in question basically drove Minato into a corner and caused his death, said person would not be waiting around playing politics with an aged hiruzen, he would have just killed him if he was actively apart of the clan and Hiruzen was part of the village that's antagonizing it. Their generational grievances are basically none existent, anyone from the generations where they were killing each other is now dead, the oldest person involved wasn't even alive when they had beef.

The genocide was necesarry because the uchiha and the sharingan itself were the part of the cycle of hatred.
The curse of the uchiha aka the sharingan will always lead to more and more madaras.
The cycle of hatred will never end since this heightened emotion will endlessley spawn more extreme indivuduals.
Itachi was in the right but danzo of course used this to wipe out even the babies.
>>282807181
The uchiha was not a huge tribe, their numbers do not even pass 1000 I think.

>>282807377
>The genocide was necesarry because kishimoto wrote some stupid bullshit after the fact
many such cases

>>282807377
I don't think Kishimoto has the balls to make them unhinged the same way Knives, Toguro, or other 90s villains

>>282807377
but there literally weren't more madaras. Even worse the closest thing to him happened directly because of what the leaf did

>>282807441
Madara doesn't do genocide cause it's boring. He wanted to become the six paths, then fight Kaguya, and fuck up moon clan.

>>282807181
Itachi wasn't that strong yet, he needed help and it was a big operation.
Similar things happen irl so I don't seen the issue.

>>282807377
>The cycle of hatred
ends if hashirama just confirms his madara kill and burns the body

>>282807546
He also only did all that because Zetsu manipulated his entire lineage to get a new rinnegan user. Anon is right, anyone even remotely close to Madara happened because of the leafs actions, or people choosing to put shit on those Uchihas that would traumatize a regular person into non functionality. Madara himself even did that shit to Obito.

>>282807575
None of the Uchihas have EMS cause it gets in the way of assassinations. Chakra Gundam, Black Fire, and Art of the Escape just doesn't hit right

>>282792581
>*defeats the MC both physically and philosophically*
The fuck are you talking about? Naruto defeated all six of his bodies while the rest of the cast were struggling against one each, and then Naruto managed to Talk no Jutsu him into being Naruto's #1 fan in the span of one conversation. How did he defeat Naruto in any conceivable way?

>>282807996
Naruto has Urameshi charisma.

>>282798549
I'd imagine getting two state of the art bombs dropped on two major cities would be the talk of several decades, yes

>>282804273
Nanomachines, son.

>>282797327
so you really agree with this?

what was the point of Orochimaru taking Sasuke's body without having a way to retain the eyes beyond that body transfer? Should've at least harvested some of his jizz or something to make future Uchiha babies

>>282809163
Nothing about Naruto makes sense. Why didn't Orochimaru make a new Kimimaro using his genes? Why is Sasuke fine with having just ONE daughter?

>>282807996
>Naruto defeated all six of his bodies while the rest of the cast were struggling against one each, and then Naruto managed to Talk no Jutsu him into being Naruto's #1 fan in the span of one conversation. How did he defeat Naruto in any conceivable way?
>conveniently forget all the help and info he got from Jiraiya, the Toads, Tsunade, Minato and Kurama