Is Rock Lee the single most influential manga character of the 2000s? He managed to gaslight not one but two separate generations of anime fans into believing that hard work overcoming innate talent was not only the main theme of his own manga but of every shonen manga
I only rock lee, most pieces of art and propaganda gaslight young men into the whole "hard work beats innate talent" meme. It works not because it but because that's what people want to hear, even knowing it's not true.
>>282860619How do you have the energy to be so dedicated to hating anyone who brings up Naruto of all things This is the most tame of the tame, at the very least you could be a hater for something else
>>282860574That came with Goku, first, actuallyRock Lee put the theme in the spotlight by the fact that he is not retarded nor does he have any special lineage
>>282860574Rock Lee was created to be a jobber.He loses to Gaara because he has no powers.>Lee uses 5th gate>Lee beats Gaara without being disrupted>not enough to break through his sand barrierReminder that Sasuke's Chidori nearly killed Gaara. Meaning that the 5th gate, which renders you useless, has weaker attacks than a Rasengan.The Ninja world is filled with OP basic skills that take nothing to master like substitution, illusion clones and more. Lee can't even do those. He sucks. He doesn't have a story of overcoming his weakness, his story is about allowing his weakness to completely define and run his life, losing because of it, then staying down for the rest of the anime as a background character.Don't believe me? Look at his damn canon stats:>25 D-rank missions>"Naruto Uzumaki describes D-rank missions as not being actual missions as they deal with tasks as simple as finding missing pets and weeding a garden">21 C-rank>"Assignments include bodyguard duty and hunting wild animals, all of which will likely pose some risk to the ninja, albeit, according to Kakashi Hatake there generally shouldn't be a chance of combat against other ninja on these missions"Yes, that's the main thing Rock Lee does canonically, he's an errand boy. What he did on-screen were his biggest missions. Kishimoto never hid the fact that Lee is a fucking loser.
>>282860922>Reminder that Sasuke's Chidori nearly killed Gaara. Meaning that the 5th gate, which renders you useless, has weaker attacks than a Rasengan.I always took it as Rock Lee (due to his usage of kicks, chops, and punches) relies on bludgeoning forces, while Chidori has more of a piercing force which Gara was more weak to.If Lee had pulled out a spear he'd have fucked Gara up, but his nunchucks would have also been useless.
>>282860922>>282861005Actually he is as strong or weak as the writer wants him to be at any given time. He can beat the 100 strongest charactets in the series at the same time and then lose to a rat the next chapter if thats what the writer wants. There are no "power levels" or "systems".
>>282861052What you said and what I said aren't mutually exclusive lol.
>>282860574Imagine if kishimoto took the time to properly develop Naruto's supporting cast
>>282860613>>282860574Christ how do you kids not know the second half of the sayingHard work beats talent WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD
>>282861090So it would be shit but with developed characters?
>>282861152Actually talent beats hard work oi the writer wants it to. The opposite can also happen if thats what the writer feels like.
Now the theme of Boruto is you need alien hax powers or you are useless
>>282860574Personally, I think Spiral/big dick energy should've been more popular.
>>282861067He's a pretentious sperg who think he seems smart. Let him have his spotlight.
Rock Lee himself was obviously naturally talented at taijutsu, Kakashi himself points it out. He’ll he’s the only one in the series besides Gai to come close to mastering 8 gates.
>>282860574>the whole show was about Naruto working twice as hard as everyone else and eventually surpassing them through hard work and sheer force of will>Shippudenfags and bortfags pretend that this wasn't the point of the manga early on, they gaslit themselves into thinking that it was about power levels, magical eyes and bijū nukesSad.
>>282861152I had no idea that's the full quote but that's pretty funny, reminds me of "blood is thicker than water" where the original quote literally means the opposite
I heard that the editor came up with Lee and Kishimoto deliberately threw him out in the shippuden, how true is this?
>>282862882Quarter-true. If Kishimoto didn't like Lee, he wouldn't be pushing Guy so much; if anything pushing the version of Lee who had the time to go far via hard work was more honest to the message. What the editor came up with was the design, and that was at Kishimoto's own request; the editor was forcing him to make a tournament arc and Kishi struggled with designing all the new characters necessary, so he helped out.
>>282861291Hima is among the strongest without alien hax, same for Sarada>Jubii and Sharingan come from aliensOk, then nothing changed from Naruto.
>>282862754>Naruto working twice as hard as everyone elseHe's shown sleeping in class, lazing around and training about as much as Sasuke.You're right that people downplay how Kishimoto wanted, badly, to use Naruto as an hardworking protagonist, but it wasn't the point or the main theme.
I think the problem with the "hard work beats genius" in Naruto is that most genuises of the series dedicate their life to training as well.
>there are ppl who gaslit themselves that Naruto, not Lee, fucking Naruto, worked hard when he's dozing off in class and funny painting wallslole
>>282862983Yes, Naruto was bad at academics but he had spirit and worked hard physically. Sasuke was also hardworking but he was both smarter and had more talent than Naruto, so Naruto always saw him as rival to surpass. As soon as Naruto found people who believed in his potential he began to surpass Sasuke (and all his classmates) in his own areas. Hell, even the fox was seen as a curse until the power of friendship™ turned it into bootleg Super Saiyan mode.Rock Lee was actually a mirror to Naruto in many aspects.
>>282863255That's obviously true, but my point is that him catching up to Sasuke, who trained better for most of his life, and surpassing him, while training in similar ways, undermine his underdog role, wich Kishimoto then handled pretty badly, forcing him back into it artificially.
>>282863255You want to show that he works hard but his chakra doesn't work, the least to be expected is that he's making up in academics, or trying by bunking his head against a book, anything. Failing that, in AoT you have Eren passing a test with broken equipment. That's a way to show it. In Naruto it's pure delusion that he's like Lee. You're told he "has spirit".
>>282860613you should put hard work into learning English
>>282863527You're shown in chapter 1 how hard he works below the attention-seeking brat persona.
>>282860574Neji was right.
>>282860574The theme of Naruto was never about hard work. It was about bonds and loneliness. That's why chapter 1 hooked so many people. Rock Lee just charmed a bunch of anime onlies like yourself.
>>282860574the irony of rock lee that everybody misses, is that he ironically gave up instantly with chakra, and copes by over-compensating with arbitrary self-imposed goals to "balance it".That's why he hits a hard ceiling of power despite all his "training".
>>282861374Actually no, I'm just aware that all the endless power level discussions you brown freaks waste your time on are pointless and retarded.
>>282860922I think the problem is that if Lee faced literally anyone else at the exams he could have feasible won and in turn Gaara itself bodies pretty much everyone at the examsSo it's not like his hard work got him nowhere, he had a bad match up and his pride made him go over the limit and got himself injured
>>282860574That's just because those themes are better than the gayshit Nardo actually has.
I blame Studio Pierott for giving Lee favoritism in his two big fights. How were they to know that Kishi would scrap the character in part 2?
>>282865333clown studio actually tried to improve kishi's mess at times.
>>282865443They also actively made it worse by having Sakura be an even bigger bitch than the manga.
>>282864863It should also be noted that Lee has "talent" with opening Gates. Note Kakashi can only open 1 or 2 himself.
>>282865490atleast it's some type of characterization.
>>282865333He just traded Lee for Guy because opening the 7th and 8th gates takes time even if you are a prodigy at opening them. I wouldn't say he abandoned the concept of Taijutsu specialist as a whole.
>>282863373>>282863527We're shown that it takes much more effort to Naruto to master things that Sakura and Sasuke do with little to no effort due to the fox's influence. We see again and again that Naruto trains and fights with little to no regards for his own well-being because he's desperate for attention.If he didn't have the fox's powers he would've become a cripple just training. Sasuke is another guy that puts in insane amounts of effort even though people consider him a prodigy and this hard work is basically what makes both Naruto and Sasuke grow to respect each other.>b-but Naruto was bad in class!Yeah, he was terrible at academics and usually made a fool of himself because he wanted attention, even if it was bad. Being yelled at was the only kind of attention he got. Most of the time he was ignored by everyone.Having poor grades on textual stuff doesn't make you lazy an unmotivated. Are athletes lazy because they can't write a 25-pages long essay on Shakespeare?
>>282860574kill yourself narutard
>>282860922At part 1, wasn't Gaara stronger than the average Jonin? Also at the beginning of part 2 Lee is already a Chuunin, so that means he beat the living fuck off an entire class of ninjas with his bare hands.
>>282866031>At part 1, wasn't Gaara stronger than the average Jonin? paper jonins yeah.but he would still job to actual ones, hence why Guy casually slapped away his sand when lee got destroyed
>>282866031>>282866068None of those rank actually detonated skill levels like people pretend they do
>>282866208they mattered a bit in the beginning, but then kishi invented paper jonin and started having the ANBU job as a cheap device for power level setup
>>282865995>You see, back when I still had a full mane of hair...Time for a nap, granpa.
>>282865995>>>/arlongpark/
>>282866221It's funny how originally, kakashi vs zabuza was supposed to be a fight between two legendary level fighters, but now it's probabaly weaker than some academy level fighters in Boruto era.
>>282865824>with little to no effort due to the fox's influence.One of the most overused statements, that is brought up exactly once, when Jirayia solves it extremely early, and even before it he learned in one night multi-shadow clone. Kishimoto was really bad at portraying him as an hard-working underdog, just like he's bad at portraying him as empathetic, because Naruto as a character is mostly about himself and his own immediate gratification.
>>282866221A lot of Anbu are Chunin actually. Also rank means nothing. Jonin is basically mastering two elements.
>>282866208Anon, the story constanly wants you to take them as powerlevels when they want to hype up a character, it isn't a coincidence the sound 4 specifically have to fight 2 jonins rather than "2 elite ninja of the village" or "2 of the strongest ninja in Konoha" to explain why they had to use their CM2 modes.
>>282860574>gaslightstopped reading there. Use real words, faggot
>>282866415And being able to lead a squad or have the ability to take on students. Jonin in general are pretty cabable. Of course jobbers exist but that's a thing in every shonen.
>>282866415ANBU originally meant gifted people like kakashi and itachi, hence why they were either directly reporting to the hokage, or apart of danzo's leaf-CIA
