I have yet to see a SINGLE good argument for why this wasn't total bullshit or one of the biggest asspulls of all time. The fact that "people" think it's good infuriates me.
it's okay to admit that you're too stupid to understand entry-level metaphysics
>The fact that "people" think it's good infuriates me.Good. Knowing you’ll still be seething about this on your deathbed gives me bliss
Well. Keep seething then.
>>282914170He literally gave up access to the magic system
>>282914311>>282914415>>282914772>t. butthurt reddit MALfagsThe lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of retards like you. Can't even defend your precious Brotherhood or justify its constant shilling on this board.
>>282914170You've also yet to see a bar of soap
>>282914794Yet you replied
>>282914782He could've done that at any moment in the series, but then again he beats le God with le power of friendship so what the fuck do I know
Why can we never have a normal FMA thread?
Because "people" like OP exists.
>>282914825>>282914842Samefag
For me, it's 2003. It felt more like a classic seinen a la Monster with its dark vibe and animation, while Brotherhood felt more like Demon Slayer, just shallow and gay
Wrong
>>282914170well you could start and explain why you think it's bad?
>>282914170I'll bite. He sacrificed his brother to gain alchemy, then sacrificed alchemy to gain his brother. Equivalent exchange. It only took him that long because he was going through character development, he had to mature to realize that alchemy was just a crutch he was leaning on and that he could live his life without it, so he chose to live his life with his brother rather than with his alchemy and without him. >but why didn't he do it earlierCharacter development. Truth is clearly happy that Ed came to the conclusion which implies it's not a conclusion many people are able to come to. People think that alchemy is a way of life and that they'd be nothing without it. After Ed has no more use for it (big bad is defeated) he essentially has an epiphany that his life is what it is because of those around him, not because of his alchemy. So he was able to humble himself and forgo the ability to use alchemy and thus reverse the price of the human transmutation, which is something presumably no other alchemist has ever done or just extremely infrequently. Human transmutation is the pinnacle of human hubris when it comes to the field of alchemy, so the penalty you get for it can only be exchanged by doing the exact opposite.
>>282914930>he essentially has an epiphany that his life is what it is because of those around him, not because of his alchemyHe already knew that or else he wouldn't have wanted to save Al and just fucked off to do his thing. Also said big bad is defeated by a different ass pull which leads to him getting mogged and the retarded heel face turn by Greed which clinches it. It's dumb as shit and definitely not the #2 best anime of all time (or #1 as MALtards were insisting for over a decade, going as far as to bot MAL so that it stayed on top)
>>282914170I have a really bad feeling with this last act. You give away your tree of life for the Demiurge to magically get the body of your brother back and there is no consequence. Like Coraline throwing away the key of her consciousness in the abyss. The author probably didn't thought much about that and probably Im reading too much into it, though
>>282915029>He already knew that or else he wouldn't have wanted to save Al and just fucked off to do his thingHow in any way does this make sense? His quest the whole time was a desperate search for some way to save his brother, initially for a philosophers stone. He wouldn't have been looking for one if the whole time he realized he could have just given off his alchemy. >Also said big bad is defeated by a different ass pull which leads to him getting mogged and the retarded heel face turn by Greed which clinches itIn no way an asspull, foreshadowed I'm pretty sure at least multiple times, but definitely when Kimbley interferes with Pride causing his defeat. Strong souls still have weight over the host that absorbs them
>>282914811He didn't just give up magic, he gave an answer.
>>282914930Good answer anon. Even if OP is baiting, I appreciated seeing this.
>>282914170>>282914930>>282915029I know you are replying to yourself, I'm just giving a heads up to newfags:Ed didn't just give up his alchemy, he also gave an answer and thats what beat Truth and why Truth accepted that exchange at all
>>282914170>too dumb to understand >gets upset at others who do understand Checks out.
Son of a bitch, it's really been fifteen years since I've read or watched FMA?....I guess I should give it a rewatch for old time's sake.
>>282914170Will you be making threads about Yomi no Tsugai as well when it starts airing next year?
>>282914811>He could've done that at any moment in the seriesNo he couldn't. You really are dumb as hell. I agree it's kind of a dumb ending but the fact that you have such a problem understanding a dumb ending is impressively retarded.
>>282914170Ed always saw the answer as being "lol more alchemy" and yet was always claiming equivalent exchange. That if he could just find the exact right thing, he could get his brother back using MORE ALCHEMY for which he had already paid a price and gotten a result. There is a logical flaw in his reasoning there, if you're smart enough to spot it. But the series demonstrates that "equivalent exchange" is in fact wrong, or at least incomplete as an understanding - witness the discovery that Izumi's baby transmutation was not a human baby, and the body Ed created and tried to soul implant actually only had Al in it, briefly, and it wasn't human either. So, there are some things for which no price exists, and attempts to accomplish them will fail. They are priceless and at the same time worthless, and equivalency wise are like dividing by zero.That is the epiphany, which brings Ed's journey full circle and fulfills the themes of the series.
>>282914889Wait so jesus exist in the fma universe?
>>282914794It is its own justification. Your approval isn't required.
I shouldnt have listened to Reddit about Brotherhood. After 30 episodes it just feels like a homosexual shonen version of '03. I went back and watched some clips of '03 and can confirm this. What a waste of time.
>>2829148892003: SeinenBrotherhood: ShonenVery simple to understand.
>>282914170It's literally set up during the entire story.
>>282914170Congratulations, you've outgrown shounen.Now let's see how long it will take you to outgrow complaining about shounen.
>>282914930>which is something presumably no other alchemist has ever done or just extremely infrequentlyI'd place it in the "no one did that before" because Ed and Al's situation was unique in the sense that their gates shared the same space, and Ed still had a way out after giving up his own. Any other alchemist paying with their gate would just be stuck there
so having power is bad ?
>>282914170You're asking too many questions, watch more video essays that also sweep this under the rug to get better MEDIA LITERACY so you can be a true intellectual like myself.
>>282916710ultimately the moral of the story is quite literally "having power is bad goy"are you surprised normalfags love it?
>>282916710you can have power, but if you abuse it you must tolerate the consequences that come with it
>>282914889>>282916549>these faggotsYet more of a reason for me to believe that seinen is something a kid watches to prove that they're so "grown-up".
>>282914170You shouldn't dehumanize people so easily.
>>282914170brain problem.
>>282914170Oh dear, seems OP is a mental midget. Especially evident since he seems to believe the series that constantly hits you over the head with the point that alchemy isn't everything ending with the MC realizing that alchemy isn't everything doesn't stay true to its own main theme that alchemy isn't everything.
>>282916710Power is fine but you don't need it and getting drunk on your power or thinking it's the only important thing in life is bad
>>282914170Why do some people have zero critical thinking skills and interpret everything they see in the most surface level possible?
>>282914930>Human transmutation is the pinnacle of human hubris when it comes to the field of alchemy, so the penalty you get for it can only be exchanged by doing the exact opposite.I like this. Human transmutation is repeatedly referred to as arrogant (I think including by Truth himself) more than anything else. The price to reverse it is humbling yourself. >>282915330This thread has once again reminded me to watch a few of my favourite scenes, including this one>What do you mean lower myself>A humans the only thing I've ever been>Just a simple human that couldn't save a little girl, not even with alchemyI love that Nina is referenced to throughout the show, even at the very end and most pivotal moment.
>>282914170The series establishes at the literal beginning that knowledge is on the table for equivalent exchange. Edward forcibly received knowledge and had to give up body parts for it. Same goes for Alphonse, Izumi, and Mustang.Edward just made the exchange in reverse. He received Alphonse's body parts and willingly gave up the knowledge for it.The reason he didn't do it before was because he never actually considered it something that could be sacrificed.He always would have been willing to sacrifice his alchemy for Alphonse, but he didn't have the perspective to think that alchemy was something to be sacrificed.
>>282917315The problem with the ending is that "knowledge" is a renewable resource, thus making it not equivalent exchange and instead an asspull.He could just relearn alchemy from scratch instead of getting the millennial equivalent of an isekai cheat skill, but he can't exactly grow back limbs on his own now can he?
>>282914811Father is not God.He also started beating him when everyone wearied his immortality. It makes perfect sense.FMA haters are illiterate.
>>282916710>>282917004lol, are you guys going to pull a Mob Psycho discourse over this?
>>282916710>so having power is bad ?for the MC it's seeking power = badfor the dwarf in the flask seeking knowledge = badobey the (((truth))), goy
>>282917807OP is also the same schizo behind the Sonny Boy and MP100 hate threads. The way he spews /pol/shit in his posts is a dead giveaway.
OP is retarded and all that, but you know what always seemed really stupid to me?How Al's body and Al's soul in the armor each seemed to have their own unique personalities, and both existed at the same time. How does that make any sense?The only way I can sort of rationalize it is "memories = soul", and thus Al's missing memories/part of his soul were also with his body while at the Gate of Truth. But nothing in the story even sort of suggests that's how it works. In reality I know the author did it because it'd be really strange to just see Al's lifeless body laying there at the Gate of Truth.
>>282914170>does alchemy make you better or superior than a non alchemist >no >congratulations you understood that alchemists have to sacrifice more and more the more they want from alchemy Not at all hard, alchemy has a toll, being human does not
>>282920665>This fantasy world is cool but you know what's even cooler?>Being a Japaneae Salaryman
>>282914889I fucking love "I will".Such an amazing song.
>>282914889Agreed, the darker vibe of 2003 is more captivating
>"Why doesn't Ed just simply abandon the structuring principle of his life and of much of the world at large?">coming from people who ruined their lives with crippling porn addictions and woowoo-ass beliefs (both easily reversible)Life is truly a mystery
Once you become an adult, shounen become very boring
>>282914889100%. 2003 feels unique, an occult fantasy political thriller that borders on horror. Brotherhood/the original manga is just another shounen, there's nothing special to it.
>>282914889yeah, true2003 tried really hard to get that shitty edgy vibe of a 12 year old trying to seem mature for his age
>>282914811>hurr durr main villain defeated by the power of friendshipNot really, they beat him because they oversaturated his healing+repel powers by constantly shitting on him with powers and artillery until he fell apart like any other homunculus, then comes the punch out and then Greed preventing him from absorbing more shit.The "power of friendship" crap came only twice: to explain Greed actions and to explain Ed reasons to abandon the magic system and dab on the TruthStill i agree, although i really liked it as a shonen ending anyway, it WAS kind of a cliche-filled ending and i also liked the 2003 version from the start
>>282914170It is stupid, but not for the reason you think it is. The series wanted to drive a point of humility home, but under the same logic used to sacrifice alchemy anyone could have chosen to sacrifice Truth instead. Truth is part of yourself, and you of it, if alchemy can be exchanged then so can Truth's tyranny. This isn't attempted though. The solution of the series inherently pisses people off because on a fundamental level they understand the unequal exchange and power dynamics taking place. Rules for thee and not for me, Father's response was completely correct while Ed's is that of a slave.
>>282914794>Well 'I' didn't like it! Justify your enjoyment of this NOW or I will scream and cry and shit my pants!Who cares, you're literally some random shitter. Prove to us your approval is worth something first and maybe someone will consider giving you what you want.
>>282920276I don't think they were different personalities, simply aspects of the same soul, like an introspection given physical form. Although i could be wrong
>>282921271Depends on what's your definition of an "adult", though. By your definition, I'm still mentally a child because I like my shounen actually hopeful, earnest and free from irony. Make of that what you will.
I did like the 2003's idea of the setting's alchemy/magic actually establishing the idea of "fuel" for said magic (in this case another dimension' souls) instead of simply leaving it as any other shonen/seinen series where the magic just is, rules and everything but it's just there, have fun even if in that version the Gate of Truth was kinda left unexplained or had some unclear rules just to keep the plot forward
>>282914170I wanna say the final act ruins the Brotherhood but Father and his homunculi were terrible villains, the ending was always going to suck.>>282914889It just keeps it consistent. The darker themes start with Nina and the guys who made 2003 kept the tone all through out and funny enough Hiromu didn't like it and chose instead to meander the story into Brotherhood's conclusion.
>>282921956Nina Fucker.
>>282914170No matter how many times people will tell you, you’ll simply repeat these retarded threads. Keep seething gay pedo.>>282920276IIRC That’s because it’s Truth with Al’s body
>>282917447>The problem with the ending is that "knowledge" is a renewable resource, thus making it not equivalent exchange and instead an asspull.If I pay 20 dollars for something that doesn't prevent me from getting another 20 dollars in the future.
>>282917314Lets be real: while dog nina gets memed on to death, we shouldn't act like we weren't shocked by the moment.>>282917807>>282920068Mob Psycho has a dedicated hater too?
>>282920753>Nooooooooo I don't want to go through apotheosis I want to be teh special cool boi ever!!
>>282914930Plus, to begin with, no one even realizes that it's possible until that point. Like even though the entire premise of FMA was that Ed inadvertently received superior alchemy in exchange for his brother's body, NO ONE realized that the opposite could actually work. The fact that Ed didn't even hesitate to sacrifice his alchemy for his brother shows that he fundamentally failed to make the connection that this was an equivalent trade, in spite of the fact that it's the very foundation of his origin story. NO ONE realized this, not even the readers, even though the very story cleanly establishes that Al's body = alchemy. It's equivalent exchange.
One is all, all is one.You trade the one in you for all you want.
i don't care i love brotherhood, i love happy endings
>>282921271Same, I feel like older anime was more deeper and meaningful, they don't make them like they used to
>>282914170He relied to much on alchemy. He could have done it at any point in the series, but he wasn't mature enough and never would have thought of it. It's perfectly reasonable that he would eventually come to the conclusion to sacrifice his alchemy.
>>282917315>regret giving up your brother>congratulations! Not many people do that! Here's your bro!No, it is bullshit. Any side character would be living out the rest of their days with depression.>>282921216He can have his principles, but the rules should apply to him like they do everyone else.
>>282922874The concept of equivalent exchange was always bullshit to start with. Exchange is NEVER equivalent. That's not how physics works. Entropy shit all over that.
>>282914794>The lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of retards like you. Wow, edgy!
>>282914170>other people's opinions make me madWhat a faggot.
>>282914170At the end of the series, Ed was one of the strongest alchemists alive. He spent his entire life improving in alchemy, first to be seen by his father, then to revive hi mother, and finally to reverse what his actions have caused to him.By losing alchemy, he essentially lost everything - from a world-saving hero who could solve any problem in the world, he suddenly became a loser, someone who could, if overstated, not even tie his own shoes.Imagine you go two thousand years back - no way to store food, no electricity, no internet -- that's pretty much an equivalent of how losing alchemy in his context is impactful.If the series wasn't targeting young men, perhaps the ending would be far more depressing and focusing on how he has now lost his will to live based on his decisions.That's how big of a sacrifice it was for him.Getting back Al's body was nothing compared to losing alchemy. He has sacrificed his entire future for his brother.
>>282914170>give up the thing that gives you everythingwhat's the problem?
>>282922252that just means someone can get alchemy, write down their knowledge, then constantly study and sacrifice the gained knowledge for infinite gibs directly from godthe fact somehow nobody has thought of this and done it is comical, and makes the power system more poorly thought out than the average isekai the average fmafag is likely to whine about
>>282927918>By losing alchemy, he essentially lost everythingHe seemed pretty happy by the end given he lost his powers conveniently when he wouldn't need them anymore.A better writen ending would be him getting shanked and dying to a random mugger but hey, gotta have the disney ending amirite.
>humanity has unlocked the innate powers of gods through alchemy >Through study and toil they learn to wield it >Through bloody sacrilege they learn to bypass the restraints >Ed undergoing the series comes to a complete understanding of what alchemy is >By sacrificing his ability to wield ultimate power he bargains for 1 miracle >A successful human transmutation >Bringing his brother back. I don't think truth would let anyone else do the trade without the intrinsic reasoning that Ed had.
>>282927918>retard literally cannot understand the concept of living simply, well and peacefully in contentment.>NO I NEED THE POWER TO BE SPECIAL!
>>282928876>If you gaslight god enough you can get whatever you want.So people praise this series because it's literal jew propaganda, makes sense.
>you CAN use alchemy to transmute gold or make bombs or even affix people's souls to inanimate objects, which if human shaped will spontaneously break the laws of physics and allow the soul to puppeteer it at will and also have the senses of sight and hearing for some reason >you CAN'T use alchemy to regrow limbs, something even certain species of animals can dowhat gives
>>282914170The next FMA!https://x.com/tsugai_official/status/1976316733922365865
>>282929332You are not supposed to spot obvious plot holes, you are supposed to circlejerk the THEMES like the rest of us, it looks like you lack media literacy chud.
>>282929383
>>282914311/thread
>>282929383Ed is back!
>>282929113Imagine you're suddenly forced to live without your phone, computer, fridge, car, forever. Knowing you once had all of that, and you'll never be able to have it again.That's how big of an impact Alchemy had.
>>282929332You can, though. Just takes a retarded amount of energy to do so. You can heal basic wounds by using the energy currents of earth, using your own lifespan you can do the same. Why do you think a philosopher stone is a big deal? A homunculus is just a human with a massive energy source it can use to regenerate.
>>282929113Yes, everyone wants to be special and everybody thinks they are special psychology wise. Fulfilling the great work, Ed realizes thats jack. What is deemed important to everyone suddenly is just a thing for him.
>>282914811>characters working together against the final boss equals le power of friendship copout
>>282929383Anime is saved!
>>282929771> EdIs a girl
