why fanservice in old anime felt just soo good compared to modern anime
>>282989842It has more to do with how things were released. OVAs gave a lot of liberty for a small audience. But it was risky for the producers.
>>282989842Were at a point where media is entering a hyper-reality where all the people making it have 0% life experience, but have 100% media knowledge, and as a result they can't really imitate life, they have to copy and modify preexisting media concepts. This process is more accelerated in the west via woke producers, but it's still a think starting to happen in Japan too. So essentially the older anime feels more "authentic" because it's based on author/animator experience, rather than it being a copy paste of abstract media bits. Plus remember anime outsources it's work now. So Indians are drawing this stuff now that China is done accepting the outsourcing and is doing their own thing. Quality just takes hits when you send your work overseas.
>>282989842The most important factor is probably the inspiration. You've probably seen that Miyazaki quote about otaku who don't watch real people and draw from life, which shines through in how they depict their specific fixations, overlooking the whole body, gesture, body language, etc. It's only gotten more extreme since.More specifically to anime, most older fanservice was in originals. It was tailored for the medium by people whose creativity is within the medium. Nowadays, most of it is based on what's described in light novels and on rare occasions lifted from a still image in manga, both of which, even ignoring the censorship, have fundamentally different ways of looking at the world. They're absolutely not "cinematic", at least.
>>282990165Unironically this. Modern anime is basically a parody of a parody of a parody. The masters of 70s-80s animation set the standard and the tropes. The 90s-00s anime industry improved upon it. But the 2010s-2020s anime industry just regurgitated whatever crap the 2nd generation did instead of understanding why the tropes were made in the first place. A good example of this is the use of 12 FPS even when using CGI. 12 fps is not anime style, it's a cost cutting measure used by the 70s-80s generation so there is no point to use this if you are using CGI. But the current industry is too autistic to realize this.
>>282990697>12 fps is not anime style, it's a cost cutting measureI mean, you do still cut costs by not needing to render as many frames. Highly doubt that's relevant on modern hardware, but it's possible.
>>282989918Wasn't Japan's home video market pretty lucrative of a market back then? At least in the 80s before the bubble popped.
>>282990537but Ruka is 16?
>>282990165I think miyazaki said this best and in like, 2009 or 10. It's a problem with all media atm, bar music of course.
>>282989842Because most of those were OVAs as opposed to TV series.
>>282989842>>282990516I like the idk, casualness of it. No milkjug sound effects, no close up on the private parts, no slow motion camera panning while nothing's moving. I mean these were there, but just scenes of characters changing and talking or showering were normal and its like directors were trying to give you the immersive feel of peeping on women naturally being nude.
>>282991530>2009 or 10.Boy do I wish we had it THAT good again. Good christ how depressing.
>>282992356No quite a good bit of it was plenty over the top.
>>282992422Maybe I've got the rose tints, but I still feel like that represented the minority of fanservice scenes back then and it represents the majority now. I also feel like it was more frequent. Not just in general, but in shows not aimed at adults. Every kids show should have their main bitch in the tub or the shower like Sailor Moon at least once.
>>282989842I think it was a bit more causal with showing women in their underwear and stuff like that.
A world doesn't feel real unless someone actually gets naked sometime.
>>282989842they used to trace underwear models rather than little girls.
>>282989842Anon, the animators haven't had a GF or even seen boobs before.how they hell can you expect them to write or animate good female characters?
>>282992422>>282992512'02 is hardly "back then".
>>282993361It's been 23 years, anon and we can go back more if you need to
>>282989842>why fanservice in old animeLearn English you monkey
>>282993451You were already told it's not black and white, so by cherrypicking Obari of all animators, you're obviously disingenuous. I get you think this is one of the typical, relativistic oldgoodnewbad cherrypicking threads you usually shitpost in, but it's not. Maybe directing your autism at what actually is and isn't said in the posts would help.
>>282989842because its presented as being causal and not unusually. The most you will get is a bit of the girl being embarrassed or getting pissed of at the guy. The Fanservice was just a part of life. Media in general has a problem of nothing can really be about the story itself it has to be some kind of commentary about the genre or thing that its a part of. a boob shot isnt just a boob shot anymore it will only be looked at through some greater lends.
>>282990165>>282990516>>282990697That's a load of bullshit.Manga still has good fanservice, meaning the Japanese spirit is still alive. But for more safe-leaning series they censor it in the anime, and for more porn-leaning series they dial it up.Today's anime producers just don't have any taste for casual nudity and mild fanservice. Maybe they're too high on gaijin money so they internalized that anything that can be safe must be safe. Remember that Bocchi the Rock interview and that Konohana Kitan tweet from a few weeks ago?
Service servicuu!
>>2829933612002 is longer ago than the 80s were when I started watching anime
>>282994533The ranma threads would strongly disagree with any of this
>>282994844Like I said, it's not relative. The main distinction is how otaku are involved in the process, which obviously went through several phases before '02.
>>282989842Old animators actually had other interests other than titties, so when you were immersed in a world of sci-fi you got a side of booba just because. Now all you get are horndogs who only know derivative shit like Dragon Quest and uhhh porn.
After being in a kick if older shows it's simply because modern audiences don't accept fan service, nudity and just underwear scenes as normal for BOTH genders. The amount of daily living and changing scenes have decreased dramatically. I don't want to sound preachy or like a schizo but people in the past were a lot more okay with deceptions of the camera viewing their life which included things like using the toilet, dressing, eating, shopping, etc. I feel modern (media) anime just jumps right to the plot without trying to make their characters feel real. >>282992547>>282993361These two examples don't feel sexual because it's not meant to excite. She knows men will like boobs and takes advantage of it to be baddass.Modern anime sees all nudity and fan service as sexual. Older anime sees fan service as a fact of life. Will I like the fan service? Of course I fucking will. It's like classical art where a lot of the people are nude or when you're doing nude figure drawings. Will people find the statue of David hot? Of course they will. But it's not sexual.Dunno if this makes sense but this is how I see modern anime. All fan service must be sexual but older fanservice let's the viewer make it sexual rather than it being the focus.
A lot of these scenes are made more with how they contribute to the story in mind, so naturally the presentation is less overt so it doesn't become distracting. Unfortunately, this means they're a lot less eye-catching in general, so people don't share them as much. I wanted to include the subtitles in this one, but the conversion desynced them for some reason. There's another scene later where the robot covers his own modesty and where the girl sunbathes. Devil Hunter Yohko episode 1 is another great case study for its story.
>>282990165Are you telling me that switch from mixed hot springs to segregated ones killed fanservice quality?
I'm sure this scene is iconic.>>282995759Pretty sure those weren't ever normal, plus they still exist. The decline of public bathing in general may unironically be a factor though.
>>282995782>mayWhere else will you see naked people that aren't you and maybe your wife outside of sex?
>>282995797Life drawing models, photographs, prostitutes, bathing privately with relatives.
>>282995834Honestly this. People don't really see nudity anymore in an unsexual manner. I grew up with a family who weren't fond of clothing. So nudity is just a fact of life. I wear underwear and a shirt at least but my parents didn't care for anything. I've been to the sauna with friends, helped them get ready for events, played a lot of sports that had changing rooms. I didn't think modern creators have these experiences with how everyone is inside on the computer all the time. This reflects in their works that nudity/underwear had to always be sexual rather than just a fact of life. Similar to what another anon said about how fanservice now does the close ups telling you this is meant to be a sexual fantasy
>>282995722for you
>>282990165I have notice a definite shift where fans of something are now making the product, when the original creators had a lot more experience and had far broader interests than just the genre they were creating for. It's just not anime too, it's a noticeable problem in western media too. It's the cultural version of getting high on your own stash.
>>282990165So you're telling me that all the people who watch anime. The literal target audience for these shows, are incapable of producing the same shows because they don't go outside and are too busy watching anime?
>>282996301Yes exactly
>>282995253>Modern anime sees all nudity and fan service as sexual. Older anime sees fan service as a fact of life.I've got to agree with this. Sure you had your obvious fanservice from guys like Urushihara and Obari, but there was plenty of casual fanservice that wasn't overtly or gratuitously sexual as well. You don't really see casual, day-to-day scenes like A-ko waking up and getting ready for school anymore, and when you do the camera angles and focus make it obvious that it's meant to be titillating.
>>282996318>You don't really see casual, day-to-day scenes like A-ko waking up and getting ready for school anymoreThat's by design, not to get too deep into politics but zoning all forms of nudity and fanservice into only R-18 spaces is the intention of a new wave of production staff, that's why the casual form of fanservice is a dying breed.
>>282996462Post your source in Japanese anon
>>282996112Based non-retard anon
>>282996318It's not just that. Nowadays when it is sexual, it is usually not taken seriously and it's there for its own sake.
>>282995797personal anecdotes of irl fanservice include walking in on women changing by accident, a prostitute brazenly going into the convenience store in long open jacket with her undies fully exposed (I'm in a "nice" neighborhood that is slowly slipping into the gutter - this was 2 minutes from my house), women not knowing I'm in the room coming out of the shower in just their bath towel, and once fully naked, seeing girls changing in their bedroom window and forgetting to close it, girls getting pantsed was a fad for a week in my high school before it got shut down hard, of course high school and middle school was full of panty shots in general, and a cheerleader flashing her panties to everyone in our 8th grade class when the teacher left for a bitFew of these were full-nude, but they will never leave the fap reservoir and if I could draw worth a damn I have almost eidetic memory of these moments.
>>282990165I came to realize this in my 20's as I realized just how much more inspiration I could draw into my work from all the real life experiences I had (or at least managed to remember) compared to all this fictional junk stomping up my brain.
thread is non-japs thinking they can do it better and just talk out of their ass when modern fanservice is way better than old anime flashing tits and ass
>>282989842They gave more attention to it. Nowdays it's nothing more than an afterthought at best. Like draw a triangle and paint bucket it white, there you go with your pantyshot.
>>282997839i'm sure if you looked pretty hard you would find some but that goes against your narrative
>>282989842because they were presented casually
>>282997883What narrative you damn schizo.
>>282991530Were at a point where criticism is entering a hyper-reality where all the people making it have 0% life experience, but have 100% Miyazaki knowledge
>>282998008yeah this, what the fuck are people in this thread saying? You need real experience on fantasy just so you can draw it? lmao
>>282996301It's an issue of being derivative.Instead of creating an anime based on personal experience and outside hobbies/interests, people's interests became anime itself and little else. Thus creativity becomes stunted, and all they can do is exaggerate or dilute what came before.
>>282989842character designs are no longer designed to be sexual in most anime. Its really that simple. Just look at your screenshot OP, even if that one girl didn't have her breast exposed, it would still be sexually appealing to anyones eye, meanwhile today even if they show nipples or whatever arbitrary thing people complain about not seeing, it still isn't that good because the design itself isn't sexually appealing in many anime. This obviously doesn't apply to all anime, but it applies to way too many.
>>282998065>You need real experience on fantasy just so you can draw it?Yes this is exactly it anon. How can you accurately portray something when you have no experience in it. You can always try to portray it as best as you can but that's like asking someone to simulate accurate love is an actor when they've never experienced love in their life there's always going to be something missing
>>282999316one of the dumbest takes for works of fiction in the history of this board
>>282989842It didn't.I remember 90s fanservice generally being very mild for most shows.
>>282990165What life experience did Hideaki Anno have
>>282999426Without reality, it will degenerate like 666x re-encoded jpeg.
>>282999534no, it would be more colorful which is literally the point
>>282999534It's good when anime women are completely unlike real women
>>282999634Here's your colorful fanservice.
>>282997367You live in a different world than most I think.I've never had anything like that happen to me other than with family members.
>>283000089I'm also an old man at 35. I've seen a lot in my day young chap fufufufufu
>>282999777Yeah anime wasn't made for non-japanese. Glad there they're the ones that make anime and let imaginations run wild instead of foreigners obsessed with realism
>>282989842I mean, old anime was on anatomically correct fanservice.
Wow it's almost like anime used to be made mostly for men but now it's made to be a "unisex" experience since women are now seen as a profitable demographicIt's almost as if you're too busy being a pseud and shadowboxing some bogeyman because the truth is that feminism singlehandedly murdered anime's one exclusive appeal I look forward to being called retarded or reductionist for stating the truth btw
>>283000801Explain the panty shots of men in Venus wars and dirty pair project Eden then. I would argue fan service has always been for both genders. You just don't see the male fan service because you're not attracted to men.
>>283000491Old anime was realistic.
>>282998065I don't understand why you think this image helps your argument.She's clearly talking about very realistic fetishes, the kind you can enjoy in real life and in photos, which I'm sure she does. You can't draw sexy highschool girls like Umetentei does without thoroughly studying real ones.
>>283000844It's really simple, fujos used to stay in their lanes, now they're in positions of power.
>>283000801>anime used to be made mostly for menI want to fap and break my human limitations for this reason.
>>282989842Because you are a retard with "old good new bad" mentality
>>283000852no it wasn't. It was also full of bad art and animation
>>282989842Because people who made anime back in the day actually talked to women, so they had realistic frames of reference.It’s why female characters used to be more well written back then too.
>>282998008>>282998065>>282996301>>282999634>>282999777>when anons miss the point
>>282995253>These two examples don't feel sexual because it's not meant to excite.You think City Hunter is not meant to be sexual? You think two girls running around in revealing wrestling outfits is not meant to be sexual and exciting? There's arguments to be made about subtly and quality in retro vs modern anime but I believe you are ignoring the obvious because you're inclined to view older anime as more artful.
>>283000948The characters used to have noses and lips.
>>283001032
desu it just seems like the tits got bigger
>>283000875Both of those are old films you retard
>>283001165that doesn't contradict what he said at all
>>283001016I don't think older anime is any more artful than modern anime. I appreciate the cel artwork much more then digital of course but that has nothing to do with the subject matter. I think my argument holds true.
>>283000801I guess osomatsu and akko-chan were made for only men
>>283000875You realize fujos mean female fans who like homo ships right? I'm not talking about ships at all
>>283001032false claim and bad argument
Because anime producers are aware of how that shit doesn't fly in other countries so they cut back to make things easier on their partners.
>>283001267>akko-chanI mean, male otaku do have a tendency to co-opt shows that were made for young girls, dunno why this one would be any different.
>>2829898421. Regulations were more laxed back then.2. Japanese society was less westernized.3. Anime was made exclusively with japanese consumers in mind.4. Fewer women in the decision making process (and the few who were there, were either okay with stuff like that or were not comfortable enough with voicing disdain for it)
>>282995782>The decline of public bathing in generalI think its only mixed bathing that´s disapearing. Communal bathing in same-sex enviroments is still seen as a nornal thing. Or maybe all the hidden cam onsen videos I have been downloading for years are all staged, which would be a bummer.
>>283003910From what I gather, a lot of public bath houses are closing due to newer homes that have bathrooms and the older generation that use them out of habit slowly dying off.
>>282996483You can just google "ゾーニング アニメ" to get an idea of the general concept of zoning in anime, then search around with terms like that plus 18禁 or エロアニメ or the like to find lots of discussion about it. I bring up production staff in particular because of the recent BtR thing with the screenwriter mentioning the term zoning in particular as a reason for her removing relatively tame things from the manga for its adaptation, which was presumably shared by other members on the staff as a screenwriter alone doesn't have the power to make that decision. This reflects the types of points of view a lot of people have in discussions about it, about how casual fanservice has no place in non-R18 works and it should be completely erased unless it's specifically pornography.Thus, the removal of the more casual tasteful fanservice is by design. Certain people don't want that kind of thing to exist outside of R18 spaces, and that includes people who work in powerful positions in anime production. It's not absolutely everyone, but it's enough people in those powerful positions.
>>283004246This is one of the reasons why, despite its flaws, I am a huge Roshidere apologist, since its one of the few non-ecchi shows in recent years to have fanservice.
>>283004246if you can't give me a source to back up your claims i'm disregarding your opinion
>>282990165Rom com and slice of life was a mistake
>>282990165They are just lazy and do isekai slop
>>282996318>>283000801Yep I think this is it. To appeal to a female audience, shows are either completely sanitized or straight up porn (and intended to humiliate you for engaging with it)What men actually want is are self-serious stories about violence and heroism with occasional casual erotic scenes involving the heroines
>>283004465I gave my source, the Yoshida article from recently. https://kai-you.net/article/93374 Specifically this paragraph:子どもも気軽にストリーミングサービスにアクセスできる現代において、ジャンル分けやゾーニングはもっと重要視されるべきと訴える。「自分で選んで買う小説や演劇などと違って、より手軽に見れる媒体の場合は表現についてもっと考えなくてはいけないと思いますし、その考え方がもっとアニメ業界に浸透したらいいなとも思います」That type of mindset is why casual fanservice is declining while more hardcore types of fanservice anime are still allowed to exist, like Nukitashi or something - it's been "zoned".But I will clarify - this is my opinion on why it's happening, I don't have evidence of a giant conspiracy or anything. I meant it more as a clarification of the initial statement based on my personal belief.
>>282993349>even seen boobs before.Given all the 'health delivery' or walk-in 'health-whatever' places, that percentage is probably less than you'd think.Not that those places would address the 'write' good female characters part of the statement, but it would definitely be a factor in the design and animation.Their only constraint might be their finances as an animator, which are notorious for being on the low end. But cost of living is also pretty cheap for actual citizens, and has been for a long time now too. So there's that.
>>283000875What?Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?Fujos almost by definition stay in their lane by their very nature, since they have a very specific and niche taste.
>>283001156Not just the size, also the shape, and also butts and thighs. Beyond that, torsos also tend to have idealized shapes, limbs are too long, and joints have also gotten unrealistically dainty. It started with the weird noodle people of the 90s, and while you can find a handful of partial exceptions like picrel, the full package is nonexistent now.>>283005211The problem is that requires intention. Artists stop improving once they meet their own standards, and it's what is passively absorbed that sets those standards. I'm seriously baffled by the amount of hentai artists who outright don't know how to draw a pussy. They've always been a problem, but it's so much easier to learn now that you'd think they'd at least try.
>>283004826>Implying women don't enjoy looking at pretty women themselves
>>283005482>I'm seriously baffled by the amount of hentai artists who outright don't know how to draw a pussy.Yeah, it's so often bad on so many anatomical levels, I don't even know where to begin. Completely detached from anything even remotely resembling reality.It actually makes me disinterested in it since it's just so often *that bad*. I just don't bother with, it despite it being something I would probably be interested in otherwise.
>>283005026Yeah this is definitely the reason. Not just anime producers, lots of people and companies want to segregate lewd stuff away from everything else.
>>283004826as >>283005651 says, it's not to appeal to majority of the normal female audience, but only to a femcel minority who are zealous about it. Your average woman likes looking at pretty girls too, and isn't mortally scared of seeing nude girls or automatically horrified at the idea of anything that could be appealing to guys.
They remove the nipples from the demake of Ranma 1/2
>>282993361The post with the webm you're responding to is literally cel animation. It's "back then" buddy.
>>283004246>>283005026R-18 zoning always existed. Content standards are getting stricter because of companies' response to globalization and social media polarization. Specifically, the current situation where the opinions of companies, companies' localizers, companies' consultants, and companies' activists matter more than those of scientific experts and the public for deeming acceptable and unacceptable fictional content is creating unfairly tough restrictions/censorship policies on fiction.For example, The Bocchi the Rock! screenwriter didn't just talk about zoning. She expressed her belief that never again can an anime character bathe naked. Else, according to the screenwriter, it is the official work calling on fans to "exploit" fictional characters. Bocchi the Rock!'s screenwriter scapegoats fiction as capable of influencing a "1% of extremists" to do harm. In other words, she believes complying and censoring fiction in advance will prevent real-life harm. She believes, for fictional works, fictional minors should be protected by treating them differently from fictional adults. This is a restriction on fictional expressions.The worst part about the current situation is that companies hide their numerous restrictions on fictional expressions from the public, and even with 18+ zoning, they still censor fictional expressions. TV stations, credit card companies/payment processors, publishers, video game platform holders, and stores all engage in this style of fiction censorship. The issue isn't the use of zoning itself; instead, it's the people/companies who get to restrict/censor fictional content.Rather than rallying against zoning, I believe companies must be required to be transparent about any of their fictional content restrictions and allow for democratic scrutiny by their country's public. Additionally, each company's 18+ zoning/eldest age categorization must allow for completely uncensored/unrestricted fictional expressions.
The image attached to >>283006987 is MTL'd from https://kai-you.net/article/93374/page/2I attached another MTL of the infamous article to this post to source my claims about Bocchi the Rock's screenwriter. I will respond to both posts with a final MTL'd image of the article.
>>283006987>>283007071Image attached is taken from page 2 of the article about Erika Yoshida's talk event like the other images.
>>283006539If cel animation makes it "back then," then Sazae-san in 2013 would be "back then" while Rurouni Kenshin in 1998 would not be. This thread isn't about cel animation. Do you think the entire world axis shifted and the entire industry started doing everything differently one day?
I agree with the general consensus about the constant derivatives of derivatives, but I also think older anime showed off the whole woman more. Sure, the tits and ass are the highlight, but the whole body is beautiful and the natural beauty is accentuated by the "high points" like tits. Look at most of the images in this thread and notice that there's a lot more full body shots with realistic proportions than modern fanservice.
>>283007558This guy gets it.
>>283005482>I'm seriously baffled by the amount of hentai artists who outright don't know how to draw a pussy.Seems to be a waste to draw good genitalia when its going to be censored anyway.
>>283008612You'd think, but most of them are drawn fully-detailed anyways, the details are just wrong. Since the obscenity standards are arbitrary, the usual black bars vary depending on the publisher, and if you're drawing the uncovered parts in full, why not do the whole thing at the same time? I think the last time I saw a simple pussy was back during the Saitom/Fakku controversy, but Saitom's also looked weird even with the black bars. Most artists now probably consider global licensing and the Repeal Article 175 movement, and there are non-Japanese artists as well.
>>282989842>fanserviceis considered 'gross' by most people in the west. but look at many retro American cartoon and they have tons of sexualized imagery. it's just not women bending over showing something. it's presented in a different way.
>>282990697>But the 2010s-2020s anime industry just regurgitatedat some phase this is what kosher capitalism does. >oh XYZ thing sold well before?>do it again but harder
>>283006537You don't need to spoiler if it doesn't have nipples
>>283009484>Tomino: Like I said, this time I focused so much on writing women I almost didn’t have any interest in men.>Anno: It felt like it. It’s the first time you stuck so much to one thing, isn’t it?>Tomino: I just realized by talking about it, but all my interest in men was sucked into the depiction of the 13-year-old Uso. I could not get distracted with others. It’s very difficult for a man my age to write a boy his age seriously, so I could not handle other male characters in the meantime.>Anno: You were able to scrape some older characters, but younger ones weren’t convincing at all.>Tomino: These people were from my generation, I just had to transpose myself on them so I didn’t have to think about anything when making them. It’s what you’d call men in the prime of life who caused me trouble.
There's only two type of people in the worldThose that admit to jacking off to Aisha Clan Clan, and liars.
>>283010056For me it's Urt.
>>282994533>Bocchi the Rock interview and that Konohana Kitan tweet from a few weeks ago?nippon feminists bad. not just gaijin netflicks money
>>282998065>You need real experience on fantasy just so you can draw it? lmaoaccording to the best hen thai artist, you really don't need the XP or even know how real human bean bodies work. it's a "creative art". you need imagination.
>>283000948>>283000852i remembered DEEEEEN! Gundam animes.>modernish "old" 3D /m/ was better.
>>282995253>>282995931To add to this, here's a clip from Aika's director, who is the male-gaziest and blatantly panty-obsessed guy in the whole industry. As part of the first wave of artists moving toward overtly fetishistic sexualization, you can still note that the fanservice is fully present but never the focal (let alone sole) point of the cut. Instead, it's a novel and dynamic way of guiding your eye around the frame, and this is about as far as he took it before Aika. The last one is kinda pushing it actually, but I'd still argue it fits. That one slo-mo Alya clip stands in stark contrast.
>>282992383Hypnotizing.
at the risk of being poopdickschzo I'm starting to wonder if these threads aren't just being made by one guy that's mad about anime not having as many naked children as it did before. while I'll be first in line to complain about how cheap most fansercice looks in modern anime there seems to be at least one poster who is only concerned about "casual nudity" in "non-erotic" shows which seems to translate to scenes of lolis being naked.
>>282990165>Were at a point where media is entering a hyper-reality where all the people making it have 0% life experienceThis
how many giant robot fights do you think the gundam animators had seen in their lives?
>>283015015Which is why they look like shit
>>283012457I think that video is a perfect example. It's still fanservice and still showing us something tantalizing but it doesn't feel overtly sexual compared to something like >>283014884 specifically because a strong wind and small skirts can and have caused something like this
>>282989842modern anime insists on itself>>282990165this too
>>282996293JJK following from Naruto & Bleach is a good example.
>>282990165People are more aware of how stories and media works in general to from the internet. people get foreshadowing and story set ups and this is why people become so fixed on subverting expectations. People watching and making stuff are more aware of how things fit together too and Its generally more calculated compared to old stuff which was more written as it was being made. I believe something similar happens now with fanservice which can lead to stuff like people being mad because they realize the boobs are there to get them to buy a product or in more weird case I've seen try and say a women would never do fan service unless they were force to like the dress up darling arguments. Its this odd view the media is this linar thing that can only grow in certain ways and must abandon aspects of itself.
>>283012457>fanservice is fully present but never the focal (let alone sole) point of theAika was literally 90 percent panty shots, you retard.
>>283015881That's why the post is about Megami Paradise instead, genius.
