What are your thoughts on English translators straight up changing anime/manga titles to "make them more interesting"? For example, "Demon Slayer"'s actual translation ( 鬼滅の刃 / Kimetsu no Yaiba ) would be Blade of Demon Extermination/Extinction/Destruction. Go individually translate the kanji letters to see for yourself, because directly translating popular titles gives you the popular and searched result (Demon Slayer in this case, which is wrong, just select Japanese to English and type kimetsu, it'll translate that to Demon Slayer too.)Another example is "Attack on Titan". 進撃の巨人 / Shingeki no Kyojin actually is just The Attack/Assault Titan, which is the main character's ability. This would've been much more interesting than just "everyone attacks titans so let's rename it to Attack on Titan, fuck the author's vision". Also although they translate the MC's ability to the Attack Titan in the series itself, (there is no "the" in Japanese, you just add it to make it make sense in English) assault is a much cooler word than attack so I think it'd have been cooler if the series was called The Assault Titan.Thoughts?
>>283046626Attack on Titan's case was a unique one because it just spoiled one of the major plot point.
>shonenslop
>>283046626For jump it's stupid because the sky high ax rate and extremely slipshod English editorial workers pretty much guarantee a shit tier name localization. Some guy with zero credentials or market research chose "demon slayer" on a whim early in its lifespan when it was more than likely to be dead in a couple of volumes and any effort or imagination put into it would be wasted. Stuff like jjk shows it's not actually necessary either.
It's bad but it's a lose/lose scenario. Using the original title is too weebish, actually its poor form from any language, but the translated title is often poor too. Some try to combine the two, ie Demon Slayer is actually Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba and that's even worse.
>>283046626That generic ass title ' demon slayer' is perfect for a generic manga like this.
Sometimes the English title is originally used by the Japanese mangaka.
>>283046999More often than not really
>>283046626Really it should be The Demon Slayer as referring to the blade.
>>283046626What's the English translation of One Piece?
>>283047085In English it's "One Piece" too, just like in American.
>
>>283046898Knowing that Eren is "the attack titan" actually means nothing until the reveal of his time travel powers
>>283046626No, its "Blade of the Demon Slayer"The way Japanese there would be an ambiguity in how that functions. It could be either a Demon Slaying Blade or a Blade used by a Demon Slayer.
>>283047281Really it would have to be "The Advancing Giant", with the twist being that it doesn't (just) advance through space, but also through time.
>>283046626As the other anon said, a Japanese name didn't stop JJK from being a success. Or even things like Naruto, YYH or Yu-Gi-Oh. If anything, it's better to keep a Japanese name both for consistency and to filter normalfags for gatekeeping, although I understand why companies don't want that. Also, the Demon Slayer name is still weird to me too, because the threads here and the scans I read called it KnY. It took a while for me to notice my normalfag friends were talking about the same series when they tried to make me watch this new anime.
>>283046626I'm pretty sure both were decided by the Japanese publisher, not the translator.
>>283046626SnK is just a weird case, where the double meaning of the name was not known until very late into the story. I think it could have worked in a localized sense by having the series called the Attack Titan, have Eren and the main cast in Paradis believe this to be the name of his titan form (perhaps the Marley trio or bitch Ymir could drop the name to them), only for everyone to discover that its true name is the Advancing Titan in the basement reveal. It would be pretty cool, but just typing out all of that shit makes it clearly absurd for translators to commit to that in the very first volume. It just wasn't possible.
>>283046626>>283046956>>283046967fucking newfags don't even know that it's people in tokyo who decide the english name, what has happened to this board
I feel like Demon Slayer was just a horrific name no matter how you slice it. They didn't call JJK, Sorcery Fight
>>283046626The Japanese came up with "Attack on Titan", which is a poor translation of "attacking/advancing giants"It's right these on the Japanese cover that you posted.
>>283049723>>283049997Another bad case that everyone gets wrong is Youjo Senki. The anime has the stupid Tanya the Evil subtitle on the JP version, it's not a localization.
>>283046626Attack on titan is the name Isyama gave it. It saus that's literally on the cover under the Kanji in the picture.
>>283047589*The Eotena Onslaught
>>283050346>It saus that's literally on the cover under the Kanji in the picture.It does? Why did he give it that name in English?
>>283046999Like when?
>>283047236That names sucks and is too long.
>>283050511How does that work?
>>283050928one piecehunter x hunterand about 50% or more of other manga you can think of off the top of your head if you include stuff like "Berserk" that is just a foreign word spelled in katakana
>>283046626attack titan sounds retarded and is forgettable attack on titan is more memorabledemon slayer sounds fucking cool blade of demon extermination/extinction/destruction. sounds like retarded ESL bullshit
>>283046626>English translatorsI'm pretty sure is the Japanese companies that choose the international release titles.
>>283047822is that why in some euro countries it got localized as guardians of the night at first? You guys think this is way more of a well-oiled machine than it really is, and much much more than it was in 2015.
>>283053427>You guys think this is way more of a well-oiled machine than it really is, What is?>and much much more than it was in 2015.Has it improved since then?
>>283046626It's one of those things where we get annoyed but the Japanese do the same thing. Lord of the Rings is basically "Ringtale" or "Ringstory".
>>283053187What about "Attacking Titan"?
>>283046626"Frieren: Beyond Journey's End" is a worse example than these two, at least the meaning was some what preserved with them.
>>283046626Advancing Eotans
>>283050885I don't know. It's just a thing manga authors do sometimes. Pic related is another good example. The title is 惑星のさみだれ (Hoshi no Samidare), but it also has the English title "The Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer" written underneath.It's probably a weird side effect of the fact that Kanji can be literally read however the furigana says they're read, so words can have two completely different meanings. You can also see it sometimes in chunishit like Fate, where the servants' special attacks are usually called 宝具 (treasure item), but those two kanji are "Noble Phantasm" in English because the author says so. Even though it's not pronounced that way nor do the kanji mean that. It's just both terms at once because fuck you.
High School of the Dead is an interesting one too. In Japanese it's 学園の黙示録 High School of the Dead, School Apocalypse/Revelation (specifically the Christian revelation, as 黙示録 is the word used in the Japanese translation of the Book of Revelations, ヨハネの黙示録), which I'm assuming is a reference to Apocalypse Now, whose Japanese title is 地獄の黙示録 (Hell's Apocalypse). In English, the reference is obviously to George Romero movies (Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead etc) instead.Like others have mentioned it already has the English in the title, which is often the case. Japan also has pretty liberal translations of American titles and vice versa.
>>283047281>>283047589To be fair , because of the lack of plural in Japanese without the ~たち , the title can be translated also as “the attack of the titans/giants”, which is how it got translated in some Euro countries like Spain and Italy.I always liked that version of the title since it works well both before and after the reveal
>>283047085Una Shittu
>>283046626>What are your thoughts on English translators straight up changing anime/manga titles to "make them more interesting"?it's an editorial decision that is made by the publisher.
>>283047401This is wrong, because fragments using 滅 do not refer to individuals. 2-kanji words including 滅 always explicitly refer to events.It is "Demon Destroying Sword", which can also refer to the abstract technique that involves wielding a sword in a fashion that allows you to destroy demons.It does not involve a person whatoever.
The Japanese probably just thought it was super clever that on is no backwards and yet the new title still describes the plot of the story. Accurate translation was not the priority.
>>283047085Wan Piss
The nips love to use english words and phrases for things. It sounds cool to them.
>>283056174English is cool. Sucks to be EOP!
>>283055357So they prioritized the rule of cool and an easter egg?
I like how I’m literally the only one who’s figured out that Douma is the genderbent combination of all 3 Kocho sisters. The colors in his eyes are the colors of the Kocho’s butterflies, and butterflies represent the soul in Japanese tradition. The reason why Shinobu looked so angry when meeting Douma was because she was looking at herself in a mirror. This was symbolized by the animators by showing her reflection in Douma’s fan. There’s actually a huge amount of symbolism typing into Buddhism and folklore going on but that’s the key point. The whole Douma arc is just a big figurative battle between the sisters to get at their own salvation.
>>283046626Demon slayer is fucking lame but attack on titan works way better in english
>>283053822localization of franchise namesandthey simultranslate every single serialization in WSJ and most in J+ from chapter 1 now when they didn't back when KnY was new, and I assume some kind of high level strategic decisions have been made
>>283056402That sounds nice. Is Douma their genderbent combination just by coincidence? Where did you learn about Buddhism?
It literally says Attack on Titan in the OP image.
>>283057443But why did the Japanese decide to do that? Is it good for advertising to Japanese readers?
>>283047401>>283055107It's actually "Sword of Demon-Slaying"
>>283057623Is it enchanted?
Be glad Jujustsu Kaisen wasn’t translated as Sorcery Fight
>>283059228Incantation Swirly Battle.
Some authors like to use English even if they don’t know what it actually means. Examples include Dungeon Meshi being named Delicious in Dungeon, or Part 4 being called Diamond is Not Crash for a very long time. It just happens, and without proper communication or feedback by a fluent speaker, it can stay like that for a long while. That’s why John Romero’s hyped up FPS isn’t called Daitou.
>>283059403To be fair Delicious in Dungeon is a pretty catchy name.
>>283059403>4 being called Diamond is Not Crash for a very long time.Meaning that the diamond can't be broken?
>>283059403Delicious in Dungeon being like DnD is pretty clever.
>>283046626Normally I dislike it but that's how we got "Ghost in the Shell"
I feel like the recent "Dealing with Mikadono Sisters Is a Breeze" title for "Mikadono Sanshimai wa Angai, Choroi." misses a part the original title's intent where it implies that it's unexpected that dealing with them is a breeze. What confuses me is that it's not like the original title had any kind of hard to translate fuckery, they just removed an entire part of the meaning of the title by removing the "unexpected" part. It would make more sense to be as literal as possible with this one, plus there were ways to localize it while keeping a similar structure with the comma that the original title has on top of that, but they just didn't. It's clear this was done without any thought and I've spent more time thinking about it than any person actually on the TL team did
>>283054312Noble Phantasm and Heroic Spirit mean basically the same thing in English, what's up with that
>>283059403>That’s why John Romero’s hyped up FPS isn’t called Daitou.What's it called? Why would it be called Date?
>>283059666>Noble Phantasm and Heroic Spirit mean basically the same thing in English,Yeah I guess, like synonyms.
>>283046626Attack on Titan is pure marketing, it rolls off the tongue in English but makes it sound like a place named Titan is being attacked. It worked out because every alternative English name sounds worse, ie "Attack Titan", "Advancing Titan".Maybe they could have done "The Titan Vanguard" as the title, where you think it's referring to the Scouts, and used "The Vanguard Titan" for the title drop moment. But then it's backwards anyway and is unfaithful on top of that, so you're just really in a bad position trying to translate these titles and may as well go with whatever sounds cool.
>>283059591>It would make more sense to be as literal as possible with this oneWhy?
>>283050928not manga but evaneon genesis vs new century
>>283059963Daikatana
>>283055107>which can also refer to the abstract technique that involves wielding a sword in a fashion that allows you to destroy demons.It can also refer to the swordsman who destroys demons, right? I believe swordsmen are metonymically called blades sometimes.
>>283047589>>283054517>>283059991I think "Titan Assault" would have worked, then you could call the Attack Titan the Assault Titan and have your title drop shenanigans.
>>283059403Or bofuri being called "all points are divided to VIT because a painful one is not liked"
>>283060005because a central theme of the anime is that the sisters appear to be hard to deal with but they are surprisingly easy to deal with. the localized version just asserts they're easy to deal with period
>>283047590In theory I prefer to keep the Japanese name but in practice I only like it for shorter, punchier titles to begin with.
>mfw will never get a prequel of how the Attack Titan escaped the Fritz/Tybur betrayal and subsequent war and Titan consolidation via spy/action thriller type genre
>>283059991>>283060233Guys you realize Attack on Titan was it's English name from Japan first right? It's not a localization thing. It's right there under the kanji
>>283060314I am a Japanese editor of a manga magazine. What makes a title punchy?
>>283046626Isayama came up with title Attack on titan
>>283050511Came here for this
>>283060755And I am princess Kaguya.
>>283047236>English: Toxy Noxy Foresty Forest>Japanese: Doku Doku Mori MoriNot much you can do with a title like that.Maybe: "[NAME]'s Poison Forest" instead of trying to make it sound like a nursery rhyme.
>>283059462No, it means you can't crash it into other vehicles so it doesn't need insurance.
>>283061245Car Insurance covers things other than just getting into an accident.
>>283059783>アフリッカ人が戦いいます>Afurikka-jin ga Tatakai imasu
At least English localizers don't have to choose between the Japanese name, the English name, or making up a name in french. Demon slayer went completely unnoticed when it was first published because some retard thought it would be fitting to call it "the night prowlers". They switched to the English title when the anime started airing.>>283059403How about Gluttons and Dragons?
>>283061596>Demon slayer went completely unnoticedThat has more to do with it being in French more than anything else.
>>283046626>Complains about mistranslations>Calls it TITAN"Titan" doesn't exist retard. Titan is a Greek word that doesn't exist in Chinese KanjiKyo 巨 means hugeJin 人 means person/humanKyokin means huge person or giant/s.
>>283059555>Ghost in the ShellThis title references "Ghost in the Machine".
>>283054142I still can't forget how Count of Monte Cristo somehow became King of the CavernThey didn't get a single word right
>>283061596French is even worse because they actually prefer to invent a new english title for a manga/movie instead of translating it in french (ex: My Dress Up Darling becoming "Sexy Cosplay Doll"). Some publishers even prefer keeping the original japanese title which is ridiculous.>Demon slayer went completely unnoticed when it was first published because some retard thought it would be fitting to call it "the night prowlers"This is the publisher's problem, Panini did absolutely no advertizement and is one of the worst manga publishers in France, just look at how lazy the title font is. They're so terrible that the manga stopped being published before the anime.
How would (You) translate this title?
>>283064692Fat elf broke the shelf
>>283064692big ol elf bitch
I just chuckle at people that use BNHA or say Boku no hero academia. My hero Academia is written on every japanese volume, it is a faster/easier title to say and it is pretty direct translation.
>>283046626I guarantee the English translators are japs themselves almost every time. Its just one of those things in animanga, if there is a reference to anything outside of Japanese culture, even if the thing is literally entirely based on western source material, japs will botch it on principle. That's even being charitable and assuming they could understand it in the first place, much more likely they just thought some word sounded cool and made an anime or manga based on that.So obviously when it comes to any kind of localizing they don't give a fuck. They hate westerners, and honestly understandably so.
>>283059403>John Romero’s hyped up FPSit has been 74 years...
>>283064655>just look at how lazy the title font is.Why do you think it's lazy?
>>283046626Demon Slayer is an okay enough translation of Kimetsu no Yaiba, similar to "Iron Cleaver" for Zantetsuken etc. The " sword" part is implied.Attack on Titan is just the author's shitty English at work, it's not a localizer thing.
>>283049723They do, but sometimes localizerfags overrule then and pick something else. The official English title for Sono Bisque Doll is "Sexy Cosplay Doll", but burgers still went with that Dress-Up Darling shit.
>over 100 posts>no one posted the pasta I don't know whether to find this impressive or disappointing
>>283050928>エクソシストを堕とせない/Exorcist wo Otosenai>"The Exorcist can not lose"/"The Exorcist can not be brought down">author actually puts their english title on the JP cover front and center>They decided on "Make the Exorcist Fall in Love"Sometimes you just gotta blame the mangaka
The English titles are usually decided by editors or publishers.I’m pretty sure even Attack on Titan and Demon Slayer were named by their editors.The following is from a Japanese articleThe English title “Demon Slayer” for “Kimetsu no Yaiba” was decided by the editorial team at VIZ Media, the American publisher of the English edition.Officially, it wasn’t chosen by the original author, Koyoharu Gotouge, but rather by the English translation and editing staff as a title suited for overseas audiences.A direct translation of the Japanese title, “Blade of Demon Destruction,” would sound too long and awkward, so they went with the simpler and catchier “Demon Slayer” for English speakers.
>>283068384What's wrong with that?
>>283060220>I believe swordsmen are metonymically called blades sometimes.You'd use 剣, in that context.>>283057623>Slaying滅 is not really the same "slaying", it's a stronger expression than that.You can translate it as such and get a similar meaning, but it's less accurate. But, of course, it sounds better.
>>283046626>anne of the green gable becomes... akage no anne>it's somehow ok when japan does it
>>283068764>The English titles are usually decided by editors or publishers.>I’m pretty sure even Attack on Titan and Demon Slayer were named by their editors.So the Japanese editors and Publishers don't decide the English names, they just leave it to the English Publishers?
>Japanese: Hokuto no ken>English: Fist of the north star>French: Ken the survivor>Italian: Ken the warrior>Arabic: Sword of fireA rare occasion where english is the closest in meaning to the original. Though "big dipper" would be the most correct, but "north star" sound cooler. Arabic is epic, but makes no sense as there are no swords, especially on fire.>Japanese: Hana no Keiji>English literal: The Flowery Keiji>English official: The Magnificent BastardBut they fucked up this one lol.
You now remember Flunk Punk Rumble
>>283069890They should have called it "Ken of the North Star (TN: "ken" 拳 can mean 'fist' in Japanese but it's also the name of the protagonist)"Rolls off the tongue
>>283071312no they should have just renamed kenshiro to fistwhite
>>283059403>That’s why John Romero’s hyped up FPS isn’t called Daitouwell, no, it's Dainihontou
>>283064913Reminder that until relatively recently, Anno was deeply ashamed of the things he likes.
>>283064409>I still can't forget how Count of Monte Cristo somehow became King of the CavernIt was the early 20th century and Japanese didn't really have an effective system for loan words yet, so words like "Count" and "Monte Cristo" would be utterly unreadable. The modern katakana system was only widely used after World War 2.You couldn't just write カウント and モンテクリスト, especially not in a title of a book. You had to transliterate it into Kanji and phonetic Kanji are difficult and annoying to use.This is why the title was changed.Also, this is definitely a cavern, so it's fine.
>>283064722by dr suess
>>283059525Too bad it sounds fucking terrible in English and you only notice the pun with an abbreviation, it absolutely can't hold a candle to something like "Dungeons and Delicacies"
>>283069890>>English official: The Magnificent BastardPretty sure they were trying to homage the Italian with that one. But they just slapped bastard on the end.https://mega.nz/folder/mdwVmRaI#uxKLYPhzs7bmVoNOpCnGqg
>>283050244I remember the Youjo Senki author said Kadokawa randomly decided to add it when the anime was being produced. It's not entirely out of the picture that Crunchyroll localizers were involved though, they had just signed a huge contract with them in 2016
>>283068964In itself it doesn't bother me at all. But the reality is that they're two different sentences with two different meanings.Yet it's straight from the mangakas pen, so no one can really argue or blame anyone. It's just weird when translation programs are so easily accessible and (mostly) reliable.
>>283073784It's fine, it's an appropriate translation in this context that preserves both the nuance and the cultural understanding.
>>283067345>the pastaNot sure which one you mean.Disappointing, I suppose
>>283059591>plus there were ways to localize it while keeping a similar structure with the comma that the original title has on top of that, but they just didn'tDo you have any suggestions?Because I remember the scanlator mentioning how the title structure is copied into the chapter titles. And given his explanation it seemed to be one of the changes that were for the good in the long run.
>>283061596>Gluttons and DragonsEven worse. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with "Dungeon Food" or "Dungeon Dining" or if you REALLY want to keep the DnD reference, "Dining in Dungeons"
>>283071156Apparently Yoshikawa Miki made it.
>>283071375His name actually means Fist Fourth Son, since he's the fourth student of Ryuken.
>>283047085The great hidden treasure linked as one
>>283046626It's fine when the title is actually good but Demon Slayer is awful and generic sounding.
Isn't the title Saga of Tanya the Evil not even close to the orginal? What's the orginal translation of Youjo Senki?
>>283077085The Military Chronicles of a Little Girl
>>283073784>Yet it's straight from the mangakas pen, so no one can really argue or blame anyone.The mangaka doesn't know English.The mangaka didn't write this English for English-speaking people to read. They wrote it for their fellow cannots to look at and think "sugoi eigo kakkoii".
>>283047590> filter normalfags for gatekeepingSure worked for> things like Naruto, YYH or Yu-Gi-Oh
Recently I saw a nip amused at how To Love Ru was just known as To Love Ru in English despite the pun not working.
>>283079275What is the pun? "Trouble?"
>>283080449That's the one.
>>283080807Meanwhile
>>283077085Youjo 幼女 (little girl) Senki 戦記 (war chronicles)so basically >>283077409Saga is not quite Military/War Chronicles, but it isn't a false interpretation of Senki, but "The Evil" part has nothing to do with the original.
>>283082378Love Trouble sounds like a good name. The Germans did a good thing there.
