Good ol kogan
what a stupid technique lol
>>283078213You dare?!
>>283078213lol
Just looked up and I'm shocked Shigurui's still isn't officially localized in English, while the anime was brought over pretty quick. Pretty damn wild considering samurai period pieces have always been common manga licenses.It's good that the English fan scans were done by one of the best scanlators from the old guard then.
>>283078694I have a friend who refuses to read it because the fan scans are somehow still not good enough, feels weird
The twins buttfucking two boys was a common source of Japanese memes back then.
thicc
>>283078213>Akari's ultraspeed gondola technique involves her rowing the wrong wayIs the path to ultimate power reached by kicking reason to the curb?
>>283078851lmao
>everyone dies
Had Gennosuke not LARPed as samurai at the beach, none of this would've happened.
>>283080427One too few
>>283078049The art looks neat though
>>283078049Nagareboshi is so fucking cool
>>283080559But he was a samurai? Being adopted into Kogan's family means he was one. He couldn't just lie about being some dirty peasant, it would be disrespectful to Kogan.
>>283078049
>>283080559Had everyone actually believed in God almighty none of these degenerated bullshit would've happened.
>>283078213It is the most powerful.
One of the greatest manga ever made.
>>283082685I unironically believe this is the really message of Shigurui. And I've made that argument a number of times with Shigurui fans, convincingly so. It's fundamentally a story about evil.
>>283084218The message isn't explicitly about finding God, however it very much is about evil, I don't think anyone could argue with that. It's the same idea as Vinland Saga, except Vinland Saga is retarded drivel whereas Shigurui is a masterpiece.
>>283080559>>283083363How popular was the manga or source novel that it's casually referenced like this
>>283084386The techniques are not like this in the novel (they are not described in details I don't think).
>>283084386I don't think it was super popular, but many mangaka seem to have loved it a lot.
>>283084330Vinland Saga is a fucking travesty of a story because the mangaka is too much of a coward to commit to an obvious arc, which was Thorfin's conversion to Christianity during the slave arc. He even marries a Christian woman after the timeskip. It's just nonsensical storytelling.As for Shigurui, it's fully committed to it's themes. Generally, it's a story about evil. Specifically, it's about the absolute nonsense that is the bushido coping mechanism in a feudal society ruled by deranged and degenerate elites. And there is this very interesting shadow play where you eventually lose a concrete understanding of who the "hero" is supposed to be. It's just brilliant. And the fact that the mangaka had to cut it short because it was taking a serious psychological toll on him lends Shigurui so much raw authenticity it's insane. There aren't that many manga that I would consider well written, I'm very picky in this regard, and I've read my fair share of manga and seen plenty of anime. But Shigurui is a masterpiece in its truest sense, it's just brilliant. As for this being a story about how them Orientals need Jesus Christ 100% unironically, well, obviously this is my own projection as a Catholic. But if you understand evil as the absence of good, and if you understand God as not only the supreme good but also the source of all good, then it becomes a more or less agreeable thesis.
>>283084438Great post, I fully agree.
>>283084438Boy, you're going to love Efu no Shichinin
>>283084513I'm so confused by this panel. I think I have to pick this up just to figure out what the heck is going on.
>>283078851My very first contact with the Eastern meme
>>283078049What a stupid way to grip a sword.
>>283078049>>283078213someone shouldve done a third version where the sword is held behind the head and the blade is held by the clenched buttcheeks
>>283084386It inspired Togashi from the Chimera Ant arc onward for one
>>283082487He claimed to have been born samurai while Irako was waxing about how low-born men can climb the social ladder with skill>>283081148Who
>>283086919Gennosuke lives and stays a dog.
>>283087006sasuga
>>283087006Gennosuke becomes Toyotomi Hideyori?That's kinda wild.
>>283085845I think there's a video of a kenjutsu master breaking this down somewhere
>>283090772Seki-sensei has several videos on them, also which real techniques might have inspired the ones in the manga and how the manga technique would be applied realistically. Hoki boshi/sliding the sword handle as you swing it out I'm pretty sure isn't just a Japanese swordmanship thing. I remember I have seen this in western one too, specifically with a greatsword for crowd control and increasing range in exchange for control.https://youtu.be/O9NACcem3_8https://youtu.be/Jzxk5FZwcYMhttps://youtu.be/JCYvq-0SbcY
>>283085845It honestly makes sense in their world considering some of the top tiers have superhuman levels of strength.
>Entire manga is leading up to the rematch at the tournament>Both are at their peaks technique wise>When they finally get face to face to fight they fumble and look like crippled retards
I just want to say that Irako Seigen is one of the coolest names of all time.
>>283078049>BEHOLD, SEIGEN! THIS IS THE SHIGURUI THAT WILL END YOUDid Kogan have to be so on the nose?
>>283091127The manga is kind of funny in that way because it plays so much with surrealism at times that you doubt that the strength is even real. The only thing that's probably real that's really absurd was Gonzaemon coming back to life.Though he was probably just in a coma. He's probably the biggest victim of the manga showing a scene where the aftermath was nothing like how it was portrayed earlier.
>>283084438Good post until this:>As for this being a story about how them Orientals need Jesus Christ 100% unironically, well, obviously this is my own projection as a Catholic. But if you understand evil as the absence of good, and if you understand God as not only the supreme good but also the source of all good, then it becomes a more or less agreeable thesis"mort de l'auteur" kind of bullshit.
>>283086604Source?I'm interested in this.
>>283084386It was a minor meme.
>>283078912He's one of the best characters in the manga but somehow no one talks about him.
>>283092009Yeah, NTA but I think the story is about how far a corrupt society can make people go (and corruption/the evil it produces in general). If you want any takeaway lesson from it, it's to avoid all that shit in today's climate if such is possible.>>283092357I recall people talking about him plenty when the manga was storytimed.
>>283092357Gonzaemon is one of the most popular characters from Shigurui, what are you talking about?His zombie arc in particular is one of the most striking parts of the manga
>>283092118There's no proper source for it being Chimera Arc inspiring but Togashi directly said that Kogan inspired the fight between Chrollo and Hisoka right after it (and that Shigurui was literally the best), and he says at the end of Vol34 that he's a fan of Yamaguchi.Although you can kind of see the influence during the Chimera Ant arc, the sequences that are kind of like pic related are definitely very reminisicent of that arc. And the large focus on the narration to deliver commentary on things, like in the manga version of Shigurui.
>>283092664sequences that are kind of like pic rel are very reminsicient of some stuff in Shigurui*Though I can't find any of the analogues I was thinking of atm. Obviously pretty different artists but he does draw influence.
>>283082685>>283084218That's stupid, there were plenty of evils committed in Jesus's nameYou could easily replace>They did evil things but thought they were honorable because they were samuraiwith>They did evil things but thought they were righteous because they were believed in Jesusand put the manga during the Crusades
how should he know
>>283093093he drank a lot of both
>>283091216It's a cruel joke that only God(Author) can make.
>>283092924While there were many grave evils perpetrated in the name of Christ, only historical illiteracy will compel you to name the Crusades as an example. The vast majority of them were very understandable and benign. And you would have to twist and fictionalise history to the point of abuse to make a Shigurui about the Crusades. Also, even Shugurui avoids the Sengoku period because it just isn't the story that it's trying to tell, and war has its own dark rules.
People really show off their lack of literacy in these threads holy fuck.
you can really get what was going through Mie's head just by looking at this page
>>283092009>"mort de l'auteur" kind of bullshit.Yeah, admittedly. But readers have a participation in the story, be it an ignorant or misguided understanding of the story or, in this case, their own projections that they find compelling for whatever reason. So I don't think I was being particularly abusive in my post. Obviously, it's not literally a story about how them Orientals need Jesus Christ 100% unironically. But it IS a story about evil and subjection to evil in various social, cultural and hierarchical forms, so it is not wrong to draw metaphysical considerations from the text.
>>283093278What do you think the manga is about then
>>283093278What a mysterious post.
>>283093260>only historical illiteracy will compel you to name the Crusades as an exampleThat's just "no true scotsman" bullshitYou can just easily say they weren't TRUE samurai
>>283093291The seashell symbolism never made sense to me.
>>283093431Maybe it's lost in translation and makes more sense to the Japanese.
>>283093407>That's just "no true scotsman" bullshitI don't think that means what you think it means.>You can just easily say they weren't TRUE samuraiOf course, you're right. I will say that Japanese media has developed an unhealthy attachment to depicting samurai in a unflattering light, supposing that "testing swords" was common and many other wild things. So if you tell me that the samurai weren't all evil, I will agree sincerely and tranquilly with you. My only really strong historical opinion in regards to this polemic is the made up bushido idealism, which is contemporary patchwork nonsense in many ways, very much comparable to other forms of nipponese bullshit like State Shinto. But that there are and were good and righteous men in Japan is something that I am very certain that is true, you haven't heard me claim otherwise.
>>283093431It's something that I also struggle with. I know that for Fujiki, it relates to the samurai ideal. But for Mie, it's a memory of Summer love. Pretty sure there is more to it, but I'm too dumb to notice.
>>283093591NTA but purely historically there were probably good and righteous men in practically all countries, but you're mostly gonna hear about the times the bad and exploitative people got out of hand because that breeds infamy. Such is history, only a few people really ever get famous enough through pure good to become household names.Like that guy who figured out how to synthesize ammonia, people remember him more for WW1 poison gas nowadays than being the reason millions upon millions of people can even have a meal. Evil actions get signal boosted simply because they have created conflict, which is kind of tragic in how self-propagating it is.
>>283093591Fine, what about the child molestation? Pious priests raping kids and the church protecting them? Do you really want to argue that Christians are incapable of evil?They are humans like everyone else and Christianity is just another tool they can use to justify their actions
>>283093692I'm not sure why you're being so confrontational in this conversation. You're pushing me towards a debate that I really don't wish to have out of respect for this topic of this thread, anon. It doesn't relate to Shigurui in any way.>Fine, what about the child molestation? Pious priests raping kids and the church protecting them? Christianity definitively teaches that defiling children is wrong. And in Christianity, you are subjected to this dogmatic understanding. So it is a religion of hypocrites, because we affirm a correct morality and a standard of moral perfection that we don't always live up to, though we painfully aspire to it every single day of our lives. The cover ups are a complex issue that is way more nuanced than you give it credit for. Also, the #believeallvictims mentality has been maliciously weaponised against the Church, if you really want to go there, as recently seen in Canada and the war against supposedly "murderous" clergy or in the case of His Eminence Cardinal Pell in Australia who was accused of something vile that he did not culpable of. In the case of the samurai, it's not like they were subjected to God or to the pursuit of good. Their religion was the State in many ways.>Do you really want to argue that Christians are incapable of evil?Don't be silly.>They are humans like everyone else and Christianity is just another tool they can use to justify their actionsI'm not sure what you mean by this.
what did yamaguchi mean by stealthily creating the "everyday until you like it" meme?
>>283094011Every day until you can nagare boshi.
>>283094011Every day until you master Kogan-Ryuu
>>283094042Kogan really seems kinda goofy when you take him without any context.
>>283093903I'm just saying >>283082685 is wrong.You could easily have them believe in God and slaughtering heathens who believe in the wrong god.You could say then they don't REALLY believe in God but I say that's just a "no true scotsman" arguments, especially when we have examples of people who believe in God acting evil.
>Being such a badass you snap out of your dementia in order to see to your dutiesKogan is one of the most alpha characters ever portrayed.
>>283078049I love batshit insane old swordsmen in mangas so much
>>283094277I want a Baki Musashi and Kogan cross over so bad now
>>283094134I don't think he's wrong. I just think that is a conversation that requires some theological sophistication, though it is certainly not the plain reading of Shigurui even if I myself am very sympathetic towards it.>You could say then they don't REALLY believe in God but I say that's just a "no true scotsman" argumentsAgain, I don't think that means what you think that means. And I have no where near made an approximation to that kind of argument anywhere in this thread. In general terms, the story of Shigurui is somewhat antagonistic towards religion, as you see instances of bisecting the Buddha or defiling a temple with carnal acts, but even if you want to go there, it's not because they had the wrong religion, it's because they have more important idols in their own lives.
>>283094072He looks like a jolly old guy.
>>283093431It's rigid, and pure.
>>283093431It's literally spelled out in the beach scene you idiot
>>283093374Why did you feel the need to double down on your retardation mate? You could have prevented this and just left this thread with a good post.>Obviously, it's not literally a story about how them Orientals need Jesus Christ 100% unironically.You keeping using the term "orientals", capitalized on top of that, is very cringe and larp-y. I'm even doubting you go to mass.>But it IS a story about evil and subjection to evil in various social, cultural and hierarchical forms, so it is not wrong to draw metaphysical considerations from the text.No. "Evil" has no meaning outside of religious thought. The author did write that "Samurai feudal society is split between very few sadists enacting cruelty on a large mass of masochists", and Yumemakura's novel tears asunder the notions of "bushido" as an answer to bushido being used to send japanese men to their death. But no mention of "evil" nor a single reference to christianity. I have nothing against catholics so don't make yourself annoying.
>>283095490>Why did you feel the need to double down on your retardation mate?I'm just replying to anons and correcting clear misconceptions about what I've posted. People can disagree without being irrational, that is all. There is not need to invent things to be angry about.>"Evil" has no meaning outside of religious thought.I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. "Green" has no meaning outside of fine arts?>But no mention of "evil" nor a single reference to christianity.No references whatsoever about Christianity. I've already said as much. But you're perfectly capable of discerning evil, this isn't a Christian superpower.>I have nothing against catholics so don't make yourself annoying.Yet you've made it a point to reply to me with nonsense and make insinuations about my religious life. Why is that?
>>283095721>Why is that?Because of your other posts.
>>283095990As I said, I merely cleared misunderstandings. I didn't even press my point, I merely explained myself in the most charitable way possible. I'm in perfect conscience about my participation ITT.I get that it's a touchy subject. But you really need to examine why it inspires so much irrationality in you.
>>283084330I still think about this page to this day. Fucking perfect description of society
>>283094960Why did he do this?
>>283098700He was a dog person
>Feudal Japan was evil!!!It was an extremely well governed society that produced timeless beauty and culture. Modern Japan is more "evil".
>>283098774
what the fuck was the point of the frog shit thrower sub plot?
>>283098774"Evil" is on the move...
>>283098797Ironic because Darth Vader is literally Christ.
>>283099011>Jesus had sexGrim
>>283098774That depends, if whether you're a peasant or not.
>>283098844A leftover from the novel. Was going to be adapted as well but the author get depressed.
>>283098844as >>283099444 says, Yamaguchi was going to do it but supposedly he got too depressed and Seigen vs Irako was a pretty good point to leave it anyway. Shigurui went on for like 7 years in serialization so he also probably wanted to do something else than draw a tragic samurai story in the vein of Harakiri.
somehow.. Chika returned
>>283099444What happens to it? I tried ctrl+f-ing the word toad in the novel's translation but I didn't find anything. I just know that by the end pretty much everyone is dead so I assume he croaks too.
>>283099737Iirc the spear dude kills him
>>283099737
>>283099839>toaded
>>283099839>a knifeGannosuke had it coming
It's weird how Shigurui hasn't blown up in popularity like the other seinen considering how polished it is and the fact that it actually has an ending. I guess the heavy subtext, complete lack of intentional comedy and show-don't-tell actually does filter people.
>>283078213kek wtf
>>283101177I guess it's not really weird after all. Did you really expect plebs to appreciate heavy subtext, complete lack of intentional comedy and show-don't-tell?
>>283078049Why was tripping to the side such an OP technique that it countered everyone
>>283101327Guess not but you'd figure it'd turn into "im so cultured" kind of bait like vinland saga and vagabond. I remember discovering the manga just cause I was looking into rapiers vs katanas historically, but the manga has gotten much more popular on /a/ since the multiple storytimesEither way, I'm happy it doesnt breach containment
>>283099444Yo.Me.
>>283101177Nothing weird about it. Not every series is going to be popular, regardless of quality.
>>283102172>but you'd figure it'd turn into "im so cultured" kind of bait like vinland saga and vagabond.Hmm...
>>283092009Do you even know what Death of the Author means? Cause that guy's analysis is nothing like that. Applying a Christian lens to a story not written by Christians is extremely common, just as critical theory is a lens applied to many stories not written by degenerate leftist trannies
>>283101177it's a work of art filled with sex, violence and (male) homosexuality (in a serious not fetishistic way.) It's against masculinity and the hypocrisy of japanese "honor" values. It's going to take an extremely talented director to bring it to life... and it LITERALLY FUCKING HAPPENED HOLY SHIT, Hiroshi Hamasaki did a fantastic job at it. It'll take a miracle to land another guy like him at the helm of an adaptation.
>>283102779>It's against masculinity and the hypocrisy of japanese "honor" values.I would never say Shigurui is against masculinity. It depicts both masculinity and femininity in its most toxic forms.>Hiroshi Hamasaki did a fantastic job at it.I wish this was a controversial statement.
